In the Prog Seat: Album War-After the Line-Up Change...Yes, King Crimson, Camel, and UK
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 มี.ค. 2024
- Join the In the Prog Seat crew for an album war between 4 bands who had a major line-up change...Yes, King Crimson, Camel, and UK.
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When George goes" I don't care how important it is I don't like it " that's a mike drop !💯😅
YES! LOL!
Way to go George, be your own man 👍👍
George is bravely defiant, even when he's wrong!
"... that's got nothing to do with me, I don't like it." Not gonna lie - I loved hearing George say that; shit was dope! Even though I love LTiA, it's the general sentiment that most resonates with me.
Bravo George for not going soft to appease all the reverence towards this album in proghead circles. "I don't care how important it is I don't like it" is a very simple statement that sounds almost revolutionary, but shouldn't. If I were on that panel I would have to take it even farther, as I honestly don't like KC in general, and find this album in particularly unlistenable.
1. Drama
2. Larks
3. Danger Money
4. Rain Dances
No. 1 was pretty easy. The order of the other three is (mostly) based upon history and familiarity.
1. King Crimson - Larks' Tongues in Aspic
2. Yes - Drama
3. U.K. - Danger Money
4. Camel - Rain Dances
I find all four to be excellent albums!
1) Drama
2) Danger Money
3) Rain Dances
4) Larks Tongue
Same ranking I'd give. I love Yes (with "Drama" being a fave), UK & Camel, and I honestly don't care much for Crimson, so the ranking just about writes itself.
Same ranking / Grant 👍💯
You nailed it, Grant
Wow.
The G-Man is not a fan of King crimson?
Or just this particular lineup
1.- Larks Tongues in Aspic.
2.- Danger Money.
3.- Drama.
4.- Rain Dances.
1. Drama
2. Larks Tongues in Aspic
3. Danger Money
4. Rain Dances
1. Yes - Drama
2. Camel - Rain Dances
3. UK - Danger Money
4. King Crimson - Larks' Tongues in Aspic
1) Lark's Tongue
2) Drama
3) Rain Dances
4) Danger Money
that Topographic Oceans episode will be a must-watch. Always interested to hear what proggers have to say about that one.
I probably will not make the chat. This was a bit of a challenge; all are pretty good. As I hear them:
4. Camel - "Rain Dances"
3. Yes - "Drama"
2. UK - "Danger Money"
1. King Crimson - "Larks' Tongues in Aspic" (arguably one of the best reconstituted line-ups ever...)
Thank you guys for another incredible episode of in the prog seat. I can't tell you how much I enjoy this show, truly thank you!
1. Larks' tongues in aspic
-easy no 1 for all the reasons you guys gave
2. Danger Money
-a very pleasent surprise, I hadn't listened to the album until this assignment but I really enjoyed
3. Drama
-solid album and I really liked the heaviness of it
4. Rain dances
-Like Luis said, it starts out really well but it gets progressively worse unfortunately
Cheers!
Thanks! Love hearing how much you enjoyed the show, that’s what it’s all about
4) U. K. - Danger Money (I've never liked this album.)
3) Camel - Rain Dances (I enjoy a little bit of the Caravan feel that came with Richard Sinclair.)
2) Yes - Drama (The one Yes album that works without Jon Anderson. It's a powerhouse of an album.)
1) King Crimson - Larks' Tongues in Aspic (The build up from The Talking Drum to Larks' Tongues in Aspic Pt. 2 is brilliant.)
1. Larks' Tongues in Aspic
2. Drama
3. Danger Money
4. Rain Dances
1. Drama
2. Rain Dances (these 2 could switch)
3. Danger Money ( " )
4. Larks Tongue
1. Drama
2. Danger Money
3. Rain Dances
4. Larks' Tongues in Aspic
Fun show guys thank you! Great points from all! Also dug the selection of the 4 albums to compare based on band shake ups. Very much looking forward to the Tales from Topographic Oceans show, great idea Ken!
Four important albums that had the most notable lineup changes, for me three of them would go on to be historic and this was tough to choose but ended up being a lot of fun.
1. Larks' Tongues In Aspic
This album could very well be my all time favourite from King Crimson for many reasons, it was a massive shift from the previous recordings as there is a lot of avant garde influences with lots of improvisation which would become their main thing during their live shows and the music is a lot more looser and experimental. I always looked at this as their Mahavishnu Orchestra with the wild violin and guitar playing. The lineup of Fripp, Bruford, Cross, Wetton and Muir all sound incredible as a band. Everyone plays like its their last and they're on top form. Every song from top to bottom is excellent
2. UK - Danger Money
Losing two key players in Bill Bruford and Allan Holdsworth realistically is a really bad blow but to their credit, Jobson and Wetton not only regrouped but they came back with a new lineup and they went in a completely different direction. Terry Bozzio who came in from Frank Zappa is a powerhouse drummer and he really helped to beef up the band's sound as well as the overall music. Jobson has never sounded better than he does in this 3 piece lineup, his keyboard playing is massive and his violin work is red hot which at times takes on the role of where a guitar player would have been. Wetton both musically and vocally is on top form, he really shines a lot on this one. The band sounded like a muscular ELP and even though I would have loved it if Holdsworth stayed on so we could have heard him play with Bozzio which those two ended up doing years later in another band, UK did an amazing job in making everything work as a trio.
3. Yes - Drama
Just like UK lost Holdsworth and Bruford was very bad, Yes losing Rick Wakeman is always going to be a serious loss but to lose him and Jon Anderson together is really devastating. Any normal band would have found it very hard to recover from those two losses but like always, Yes pushed forward and brought in The Buggles from the new wave pop world to replace them which was a very shocking move. Geoff Downes is no Wakeman nor is he as flamboyant as him but his keyboard playing adds a lot of colour and he has a more laidback approach to the music, he did a great job in not copying him and staying true to himself. Trevor Horn had the biggest challenge ever of filling the massive shoes of Jon Anderson and he did a fine job handling the vocal duties. Drama is an album that i have grown to like and respect over the years, its a fine album with some excellent music which packs a punch.
4. Camel - Rain Dances
A solid album with Mel Collins from King Crimson and Richard Sinclair from Caravan who both did a fantastic job with their contributions. They really add a lot to the music and you can really hear it throughout from top to finish. A very enjoyable album with lots of different things going on.
A great show guys and can't wait for the next one
1 Drama
2 Danger Money
3 Larks Tongue In Aspic
4 Rain Dances
Great episode again guys. I'm with Eric and George, Larks Tongue is just bad to me. Also, glad to see Chad wearing the cartoon stick man jacket again. I just can't unsee that!
Thanks Jim 👍
Many thanks gentlemen.
1 Yes
2 KC
3 UK
4 Camel
Out of these four, I only have Larks Tongue. Just finished listening to Drama on Spotify, and I have to say it knocked my socks off. I'm not a huge fan of Camel (too much jazz, not enough rock), and I think this is one of UK's weaker LPs. My vote:
1) Drama
2) Larks Tongue
3) Danger Money
4) Rain Dances
KC, Camel, UK, Yes
Great show! Really enjoyed this one. Loved hearing the passion regarding King Crimson.
DRAMA/8️⃣0️⃣ tremendous IMO 👍💯
Gary 😉
@@ericporter344 /👍💯.
My second favorite YES album
Thanks guys! Just getting around to watching this.
For me:
1. Drama
Always loved this album.
2. Larks tongues in aspic
Lots of noodling (maybe too much!) but the good parts are really good.
3. Danger money
Some really cool stuff and some not so cool. I do like Jobson and the drumming is great.
4. Rain dance
Pretty big drop off for me.
Working from home today so I think I will get all four of these going on the tt!
And these a just My favorites. Not historical importance. #4 Camel #3 Crimson. I love this album. The last version of KC playing these tunes live was truly something I never thought I would witness. #2 UK. I seen UK on a reunion tour with Bozzio playing these songs in Toronto. Amazing show. Martin Popoff was at the same show just in front of me and my sweetbaby. # 1Drama by Yes . I listen to this album all the time. Fantastic production and instrumentation. I believe we are lucky that this album was made. Steve found a distortion pedal that changed everything. Chris is stunning ( vocally as well ) The Keys are rich and no sent of cheese. Trevor Horn does a great job on vocals but his true calling on production changes the recording game. But.....I believe Louis is correct when he says Alan White is the secret sauce. What a great drum sound and performance. I believe this and 90125 are Alan`s greatest contribution to the drum culture.
Drama because it is hugely UNDERRATED and it shows that even without your most famous front man you can still have a perfect album IMO.
Agree... 👍
1-King Crimson
2- UK
3- Yes
4- Camel
1. Drama
2. Lark;s
3. Danger Money
4. Rain Dances
'Drama' is the one I will pull out to play most often. I agree with the comment that it probably wouldn't have been as heavy had Jon Anderson been involved so that trumps any 'shortcomings' vocally. An underrated album by Yes devotees I think.
I'm not sure I can take all the prog overload with two videos in an hour. But I'll manage it. 😂
1. Drama
2. LTIA
3. Danger Money
4. Rain Dances
All very great albums, though neither band’s best, in my opinion.
From a purely artistic standpoint, the King Crimson album is undoubtedly the most important of these four albums, but for me personally, YES wins this war; 'Machine Messiah' alone is reason enough for me... ❤❤
1) Yes - Drama
2) King Crimson - Larks' Tongues in Aspic
3) UK - Danger Money
4) Camel - Rain Dances
I think Drama has some of Steve Howe's best guitar work. Very heavy.
Larks' is the most proggy of the bunch, very experimental.
Wasn't familiar with Danger Money or Rain Dances.
Both kind of on the pop side. Had a hard time with who gets 3 or 4 spot. UK has the better vocals so there you go.
1. Larks
2. Drama
3. Danger
4. Rain
Going to catch up in the morning 11.30 pm here in Uk
Goodnight all.
#1 Lark's Tongues In Aspic
#2 Drama
#3 Danger Money
#4 Rain Dances
I only heard Rain Dances for the first time last week. I may be missing some of the things that might be more appreciated over time with that one.
4. Drama - heard it once, hated it
3. Danger Money - heard it twice, hated it
2. Rain Dances - lovely album; Camel and Caravan always put me in my "happy place"
1. Larks Tongue - Daring, innovative; Part 2 is metal, baby!
1. Drama 2. Larks' Tongues 3. Danger Money 4. Rain Dances
1. YES
2. UK
3. King Crimson
4. Camel
I read down thought the comments and was surprized because I dont think its even close. Larks Tongue is just on a different level. To be 4 on the list blows me away. I own a lot of music and I dont own a physical or digital copy of the other three.
Eric dropping the bomb on Larks and then George finishing it with a nuke was the funniest shit. Amazing!
My ranking:
1. U.K. - Danger Money
2. Yes - Drama
3. King Crimson - Larks Tongues In Aspic
4. Camel - Rain Dances
👍 honesty is the best policy!
@ericporter344 Yes sir! 🤣
This is very rude Pete (quoting Jeff Young). It’s like choosing a favorite among four sons (no daughters, it’s prog, go with it). Anyhow, no doubt it will be a benchmark show. Can’t wait.
Great discussion ! Love the different thoughts on the albums. But surprised that Lark's Tongue was not the undisputed winner (but that's just my opinion 😄)
Wow! When I saw this list one thing stood out. The greatest of all time and three middling Albums.
1. Drama- This is just a great album. Some of Chris Squire's best.
2. Danger Money - I like this one better than their first one. Both are great.
3. Larks Tongue - This is the weirdest ones but that does not help it much for me. There are some really good parts but some of it seems to be just different only to be different. I like more groove with my prog. This one is fine but I do not go to it that often.
4. Rain Dances- a little boring to me but overall good playing and some very nice parts.
I really enjoy this 😂😂😂😂
I am glad I'm not the only one that doesn't like Larks tongues in aspic that much🙂 I even prefer Islands
1.Larks Tongue (easily the #1)
2. Danger Money
3. Rain Dances
4. Drama
I have a history with Drama. I bought it the Summer of 1980 before my sophomore year of college. Was psyched to see a Roger Dean cover. But then, WTF!!!; NO JON or RICK! It's a good album, but I'll never get over my disappointment, lol
I'm with Eric and George here, I can't get into King Crimson and believe me, I have tried because the prog community harp on about how great they are., Dicipline is the exception, I used to like a lot, but haven't listened to it in years. So Drama at the top for me every day of the week.
1. Drama
2. Danger Money
3. Rain Dances
4. Lark's
Have you tried the live Earthbound? Just jump the drum solo if you are not into drums. And don't mind the quality of the recording.
Some bands just don’t click, and I do like Crimson, but not all of it!
I love all of these albums ... that is tough to rank them.
I love it Eric went full George Lamie on Larks Tongues. You never go full George Lamie. Unless of course you're George Lamie who put the cherry on top. Down goes Old Man Prog. 😂
George Lamie always talks terrible things.
@@user-cj4df7vs7w I agree.
George gives it to you straight and doesn't like something just because he's supposed to. It's refreshing.
I love em all
Yes, ftw!!!. 🎉🎉
1. King Crimson
2. Camel
3. Yes
4. UK
Further to Ken's anecdote about the show... It's true tickets went on sale very long in advance, and that's actually a big part of the story. The previous line-up didn't break up right after the Paris sessions in late 1979. By February 1980 Jon was still involved and Rick was supposed to play on the album once the music had been written. But then Jon stopped coming to the rehearsals and Steve, Chris and Alan found themselves on their own. They might have broken up at this point, but manager Brian Lane explained how tickets for the tour beginning in August were already on sale, and they'd lose a LOT of money if they cancelled it. That's why there was such pressure to come up with, basically, ANY line-up that would pull it off. It so happened that Lane was managing the Buggles, and initially they were approached to provide a song for the album, which was "We Can Fly From Here'", and they got together to rehearse it, with Jon's status in the band being uncertain. They found they sounded good together, and that was the new band. So the tour was saved, and of course it was decided to keep quiet about such a radical line-up change taking place, because the original deal for people buying tickets was it was still the band with Jon and Rick.
I saw McLauglin last year . I saw Crimson 2 years earlier . I recognized similarities . I have million Crimson albums . I confess only gåing to McLauhlin to please my son. 200 people Club and on eof the absolute best concert I been on. Recommended
Eric I am with you A lover of Drama, then larks, Then UK and then Camel which I have yet to explore fully
👍 I love Drama
@@ericporter344 my first yes album but it has always been a great album, i kinda wish they had done more like it
I love Drama and Danger Money... I don't like any KC apart from Red.... haven't heard Camel.
It was hinted at in the stream I guess, but there are live recordings of Holdsworth and Bruford playing on Danger Money material. I love those guys, but for me Jobson was the glue in this short-lived band, wrote most of the music too.
Larks' Tongues in Aspic has to be my number 1. The first three minutes of that record put the hook in me.
Though I don't agree with the winner (should have been "Drama" IMO), this was an enjoyable discussion. However when it got to the end...Can't say I'm looking forward to seeing the hit job that's being planned for "Tales From Topographic Oceans". From all the grinning panelists and Loius' "I'll take on all comers" comments, it obvious that this "contoversial" album has been chosen to get pissed all over.
The grinning is because we all know Luis hates it. I have no idea what anyone else on the panel thinks of it.
Refreshing to see that not everyone's going gaga over Larks' Tongues in Aspic. I like it, but I think Red is easily better, and even Starless and Bible Black is about as good if not better from this terrific KC lineup. Part One of the title track and "Exiles" have boring moments among the good ones, and "The Talking Drum" is a total throwaway for me. The rest is all brilliant, though.
Starless and Bible Black is my fav KC.
Ken can't take Eric's number 4 but he can easily go and talk bullsh*t about Drama which is far better than any other album discussed in this video. It's just a matter of taste.
Strangely enough, I’ve been listening to Rain Dances, Drama, and Danger Money on repeat recently. I love all these albums but I’d probably go:
1. Larks
2. Danger Money
3. Rain Dances
4. Drama
What were Canz's picks?
Rain Dances is one of Camel's absolute best albums
Camel were originally referred to as Barden's Camel because at the time Peter Frampton fronted a band called Camel
Don't own any of these albums. Gonna be a great show tomorrow!
Your third speaker is like a breath of fresh air to me. I've been saying for years that you had to be there. As a man who's considerably older than any of you, or indeed all TH-cam reviewers, who was there in 1970 South London and was a massive prog rock fan, the missing element in all of your reviews is context. Without it it's meaningless. That's why for example, Love Beach isn't regarded as badly by those who anticipated it's release in the wake of what else was around at the time. You can say what you prefer, you can say what's most proficient, but retrospectively you cannot place these albums into importance or context
Eric is great, I agree
hey Luis, I don't know if you read the comments or not but, given your taste, you might really like the last Dodheimsgard album "Black Medium Current" if you don't already know about it. Very progressive, avantgarde black metal.
I will seek it out. Cheers!
All good albums but fairly easy to rank: 1. Larks 2. Drama 3. Rain Dances 4. Danger Money. With Larks, you very much get the impression that this is something new and important. Bar the Fripp guitar (and even that has new tones) it's barely recognisable as the same band whereas the others are more obvious evolutions.
I agree with Eric about Larks. All that Percussion before it kicks in is boring.
👍 Yup, too much nothing going on
Holy makaroni ! All Best Yes albums features Jon Anderson , His lyrics are very hippie but he has a beautiful voice,. THe classic albums Fragile , Close to the Edge , Yes Album are definively the best .
1. Crimson easily
2. Yes
3. UK
4. Camel
All good albums, but my preference is Larks Tongues in Aspic, Drama, Rain Dances, and Danger Money.
Some of it tough picking but:
#1 Danger Money
#2 Larks
#3 Drama
#4 Rain Dances
No 1 is easy for me too. After the underwhelming Islands (the only KC album I can't listen to) they came roaring back with arguably their greatest ever album. I'm surprised Danger Money doesn't get much love. I love the album as much as the debut because the arrangements are even tighter and Eddie Jobson gets to really strut his stuff. I always really love Rain Dances too. Mel Collins and Richard Sinclair add so much to their sound. Not such a big fan of Drama. It's a good album but not a great one. I'm probably one of the only Yes fan who rates Tormato .For me that was the last great Yes albums.
1.Larks'Tongues in Aspic
2.Danger Money
3.Rain Dances
4.Drama
I will be so shocked when King Crimson wins
About Sinclair's bass playing. It may be more mellow sounding because he uses fretless a lot. Also his playing is more jazzy than that of Doug Ferguson. Andy Ward loved the jazzier side so that is one reason for the different dynamic in the rhythm section. I think the jazzier leanings including Mel Collins on sax was something that ked to Peter Bardens departing
Sinclair was really a session player on this album. Latimer plays bass on "Skyline" and "Tell Me", and Sinclair's only credit is for co-writing "One Of The Days...", basically a jam. By the time they did "Breathless", he was a full member and his contributions added more of his personal touch to the music, but this coincided with a change in musical trends which was reflected in the album's attempts to go in several conflicting directions, disco, pop, jazz-fusion etc. This plus the fact that Latimer and Bardens were keen to remain the main composers limited the extent to which the Canterbury influence brought by Sinclair really changed Camel's music... which in my opinion it didn't enough to make Camel a "Canterbury" band.
@@canterburyscene saw them on the Breathless tour by which time Dave Sinclair and Jan Schelhas were playing keyboards. That was good
Good on you Eric and George for telling the truth..Larks first track is very annoying and I can't even hear the first 5 mins. Most of us old Rockers are half deaf so it creates even more a problem.That violin section nearly makes me feel like puking. Drama is better than Toma[ big] toe for me and even if Horn doesn't sound like Micky Mouse, he is still great. That being said I still feel Larks is ahead of the other three since it is much better than the previous Crimson crappy outing so that makes it number 1.
1.Larks
2.Drama
3.Raindances
4.Danger Money
For me:
1. Drama
2. Larks
3.Danger Money
4. Rain Dances
Has to be Rain Dances for me. Dont have any of the other albums dont like Yes or King Crimson never heard the other.
4.Camel
3.King Crimson
2.U.K.
1.Yes
Camel was never the same after Moonmadness, King Crimson, great album, just don’t play it as much as the other 2.
U.K. 5 star album, best version of the band.
Yes got it the week it came out, best album they ever did!
Chad is correct, the fade is not there like it used to be. If you grew up with the original, you miss it.
I'm amazed and don't understand why someone decided to change it!
drama is very good the others i dont care
Guys! Ken mentioned Eddie Jobson and later on Luis too - and you forgot to drink? 😲
Blame it on THE OLDS🤣🤣
@@truckerkevthepaidtourist If Anthony was present they would have raised their glasses 8 times 😃
1 Drama
2 Larks
3 Danger Money
4 Rain Dances
Luis is Brutal! lol!
I can’t play; I’ve never listened to Camel.
But for the rest:
1 Drama
2 Larks’ Tongues
3 Danger Money
I like George. He says it like it is. No pretensions. He likes what he likes. that is great. So many seem to have to tow the party line. King Crimson is great according to many, but George will say what he likes and what he does not. BTW Larks tongue has a lot of pretension. To think that it does not is interesting.
I would never dispute larks is pretentious. I would add all great Prog does though
Thank you, sir. I can only be me, such as it is
Agreed on GL. Whenever he slams an album I love, like he so memorably did with Soft Machine's "Third" and most Canterbury stuff, I'm not only amused by the bluntness of his dismissal, there's also food for thought, and interesting alternative perspectives on things - why music you like/love can have little or no effect on someone else. We all come from different places and don't look for exactly the same things in music.
@georgelamie7001 is a mensch and a music expert it is my pleasure to call a friend. He is also 100% a Chicagoan and has no time or patience for doucheboy antics. Love his takes, even if we don’t agree!
Adrian's new Supergroup Beat , brings back horrifying feelings of hearing King Crimson Beat album. This album is probably one of the worst in my entire collection along with Yes's bloated and boring Tales From Topographic Oceans ( again, sorry Scot Lade). Like I've said before, I have a pristine 40 year old copy of KC Beat for sale played once every decade or so to see if I hate it still? And the answer is Yes ( see what I did there, Love Drama seen Yes on this tour in Toronto)!
4. Camel.
3. U.K.
2. King Crimson.
1. Yes.
Yes wins hands down.
I love Drama, but it ain't Yes. i knew someone who saw Yes live at the time and they said Horn was dreadful doing the old stuff.
Have to go with KingCrimson. IMHO the most progressive.
Larks Tongues in Aspic. Don't care much for other three.
Drama
Larks
Danger
Rain
To me Danger money is on the same level of the first. holdsworth is overvalued. he had just two credits on the album: nevermore (a band coposition) and Mental mendication as his solo piece: never performed live. For a reason? Never liked that one. Carrying no cross was played with Alan in the band. A masterpiece also in this trio new direction. A great album.Maybe not the best lyric...but who cares? ;-) Slide it in is not great too...but it is a great album.