Why Ween Don't Like Frank Zappa's Music
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2024
- Dean and Gene Ween (of the band Ween) don't like Frank Zappa! But why?
In spite of their many similarities - infantile, often gross and sometimes offensive humour; wacky weirdness - Ween don't think much of Zappa, and aren't all that keen on being compared to him. If you can't quite work out how the band who wrote 'HIV Song', and 'Spinal Meningitis' find the guy who wrote 'Valley Girls' and 'Bobby Brown Goes Down' a bit obnoxious, this is the video for you!
#zappa #ween #music
Watching this made me realize that ween has a tenancy to take and fully embrace a first person perspective of who or whatever they are taking the piss out of. Big fat fuck is a perfect example of this as is blarney stone.
The person who introduced me to ween was overweight and played me big fat fuck. She thought it was funny and didn't feel singled out as the tone was more taking on the mantle of big fat fuckery in general.
Zappa tends toward third person. Even in Joe's garage, which is a good counterexample he continually seems to insert himself to remind you that he is not Joe and Joe is stupid.
Zappa was a highly skilled genius, don't get me wrong but weens ability to empathize with all the goofy corners of the world makes them more relatable.
I feel like you just made my point better than I did! I fully agree with what you say, well said. Like you, I think Zappa is without a doubt a brilliant genius, but that doesn't mean I have to love everything he did. Sometimes it's just a bit too cynical for me - Ween aren't as skilled as Zappa, but as I say in the video, there's something wholesome about them (in spite of themselves almost!).
Thanks for watching
Fun fact: Big Fat Fuck was written after Gener(I think) got off dope. He gained a lot of weight and that song was how he felt about it.
Ween is the single greatest display of human musical expression. Hail Boognish.
Hell yeah Mang!
@@eonwe1977 Hayl teh Boogbnlish indeedz0rz!!!11!! WEEN ROCKXXZZ 4 evvvzzzz
Yes
Since I first heard Ween I thought "wow this reminds me of the spirit of Zappa". Surprised they wouldn't appreciate Zappa.
Me too...especially "Tears for Eddie."
Zappa's genius as a composer and an arranger will be discussed in history books, but Ween has made me cry laughing while absolutely knocking my brain out of my skull during live shows (15 minute Poopship etc). Was going to say that Zappa's vulnerable/sentimental side came out rarely in tracks like Easter Hay, but then you played a snippet of that track haha. And then you mentioned Heidecker who has gotten me through insanely tough times with Tim and Eric, Bedtime Stories, and the On Cinema Universe. It's like this video was custom tailored toward me. Great job TH-cam recommendations! Nailed it.
The irony : sincerity ratio is completely different. Ween are far far more earnest and sincere. They LOVE the musical styles they pay homage to. Zappa used genre to point out the dumbness of conformity, pop music and its commercialization. Theirs an underlying hostility that’s not present in Ween. Still love him for what he does but beneath the surface of their similarities they couldn’t be less alike.
Never been into zappa, but I love some of weens songs
I do like Zappa myself, but I find myself not quite able to LOVE Zappa
Thanks for watching!
You perfectly put into words why I've only ever been able to admire Zappa from a distance but love Ween (and Tim Heidecker, and Beefheart for the matter)
Love both, and vinnie's name is pronounced in the Joe's Garage song Catholic Girls btw.
Love of My Life, I'm the Slime, Uncle Remus, Mom and Dad, Trouble Every Day, Hungry Freaks Daddy, Cocaine Decisions, Heavenly Bank Account, and The Meek Shall Inherit Nothing are all great songs and examples of Zappa writing more serious songs with lyrics and something to say rather than childishness and dick jokes. "Ever tell your kids, you're glad that they can think? Ever say you love them? Ever let them watch you drink?" Is one of the rawest lines I've heard in a song.
ohhhh boy, we got 20 minutes of HOT GOSS. and idk Hot Rats and Joe's Garage are masterpieces with very dark humor, but not total sarcasm/ironic, 'watermelon in easter hay' is instrumental
Hope you enjoyed the goss
Are they more like They Might Be Giants or Oingo Boingo?
2:34 Vinnie Colaiuta actually gets name checked in Catholic Girls. See that song for a pronunciation example.
Has anyone read “The Hot Rats Book”. He really is a good guy….if only to a select few. I was 49 before I “got” Zappa.
Frank Zappa is trying far too hard to be what ween just is.
Well said!
Uh…Zappa predates Ween by many many years.
@@MunchylegoI’m not talking about the formation of the band, but the concept they are both going for
Ween hasn't composed anything like The Girl in the Magnesium Dress.
Ween hasn’t even come close to anything that Zappa did, especially with regards to composition. The dude wrote for orchestras. Massive compositions…but Ween? Whatever. Not even close.
A man after my own heart! I find Zappa’s music musically stunning but incredibly off-putting because his personality is SUCH a suffocating presence.
And no need to hedge on speculating about the reasons behind his lack of vulnerability. Your suggestion is perfectly sensible and valid.
I think Zappa certainly had moments of brilliance and he trained some of the best musicians of the late 20th century but I would much rather listen to any album by Ween. I think they are much more interesting and they are wildly entertaining live.
Zappa is my favorite and funny enough i would never have heard of ween if it wasn't for being a Zappa fan.
You make some really good points about FZ. I still like him, too, and I'm glad there are other things to listen to.
Great video! I love Ween and appreciate Zappa but absolutely agree with you about his nastiness.
Thanks for watching! Glad you liked the video
Zappa just did what he liked. Thats called being an artist. If you feel that way, you just don't listen, which is exactly what he said people should do if they don't like it.
Writing incredibly outside the box music can make the artist feel vulnerable.
What's with the snark, friend? Did you even watch my video? I explicitly said I like plenty of his music, but I personally have limited patience for his shtick. I think it's perfectly fair for me to talk about the issues I have with his art, no? Or would you prefer that I only say positive things about artists you like?
If you have a problem with my video then DoN't WaTcH mY cHaNnEl 🤔
@@bigyellowpraxis I watched this months ago. I must have disagreed with something.
You can say and listen to whatever you like, and guess what, I can respond anyway I like. And don't worry, I likely won't be watching anymore on your channel.
I’m a bigger Ween fan than Zappa by a lot. I do like some Zappa and have a few of his records. But one time I fell down a rabbit hole of trying to learn more of who Zappa was and watched a bunch of interviews with him. They were all similar in that he made the interviewer work very hard to get anything out of him. Dry one word answers, awkward pauses, and almost refusal to expand on anything he said. And the asshole thing really stuck out to me. It’s that not only was he “punching down” in a sense but dude your fans just want to know a bit more about you and that’s part of the price of Rock Stardom and your just being a chode. Idk maybe he’s like the Andy Kaufman of music back when that type of trolling humor was considered cutting edge comedy.
Didn't Gener play at a Zappa festival? This dude pretty much correct, just takes forever to get the point. Brilliant
Zappa was no less than genius. He was spot on when talking about where the U.S was heading in the Clip shown in this video. And his attention to the instrumental work is untouchable.
Untouchable is a big word, but yes, it was definitely brilliant!
@@bigyellowpraxis I was caught up in the moment, what can I say?
That's the one area he was wrong. He should of been worried about commies more.
@@bigyellowpraxisIt's really dumb to think America became a fascist theocracy. This is the most common cope of Zappa fans.
I don't think America IS a fascist theocracy, but I certainly think that fascist theocracy is worryingly popular amongst republicans. Zappa's statements on the topic are in my opinion well informed and incisive - it has become trite and cliche to point out the right wing authoritarian direction the Republicans are clearly dead set on taking the country in, but it's 100% true
Fair enough, I don't like Zappa's music either (not that that is particularly interesting to anyone except people I know). Although personally he is interesting to me.
It's good that not everything in art is liked and it's good that not everything in art is disliked.
Imagine how dull things would be if we all liked the same stuff.
🙂
Ween is a good band.
I say good because, they have quite a few good songs,
But their albums are so damn spotty, I can’t say I like a whole album,
And actually, I think I only like three of their albums.
But they’re pretty damn spotty.
They kind of remind me of the band 10CC,
Some of the stuff they do is genius,
But a lot of it and there I say most of it it’s just spotty.
Both bands try to do a wide array of different styles.
So about four songs on an album are great and the rest of them aren’t.
That’s my opinion on Ween and 10CC,
They both have a very spotty approach to their albums.
I'm inclined to agree. Definitely a lot of inconsistency with them
Zappa - highly musical man; 'n he is somewhat pejorative of himself as well as abyde with his own consciousness of life... eh, funny fella!
Honestly I’ve had similar thoughts about Zappa. On a technical base alone, probably one of the best musicians of the past 70+ years. However, every interview I’ve ever seen with him involves EXTREMELY condescending language, and seemingly a sense of contrarianism. Feels like juvenile mentality.
I half agree with you! He definitely could be a douche in interviews, and I do occasionally find his attitude a bit infantile, but he was also very switched on, well informed, and clearly intelligent
I think he was just a complex guy. Talented of course, but probably difficult in many ways too
And thanks for watching!
Zappa and Ween both sing about poop
Zappa is closer spiritually to Jim Morrison
Jim's poetry is needlessly confident, undeservedly bold. In fact it's only poetry because it has metaphor and abstraction.
I don't think Jim was really ever sincere until the album LA Woman, and there he's mostly just doing an impersonation of a blues musician.
I don't have as much of a problem with Zappa's music. I strongly disagree with Hot Rats as the starting point 😂 I'd say One Size Fits All (by the way did you know Tina Turner did the vocals on Montana😮) or Overnight Sensation. Is that the one with Yellow Snow?
Listening to Zappa on record isn't much different than listening to Ween.
But I was changed forever when I saw a video of Zappa live.
I saw Ween on the Mollusk tour. It was fucking great!
I think the Zappa video i saw is called Baby Snakes and it's everything you are saying. It's just WAY TOO SARCASTIC
Zappa's face IS sarcasm
It's unbearable
I was devastated. I truly was. I've never been able to attain peak Zappa appreciation since.
I always thought that like Ween, Zappa is just a silly man. I mean I know he is also immensely talented but that's what makes him special.
I dunno i guess it'd be like if you meet one of your heros and they are incredibly rude to the people around them who are just trying to do their job.
I was like, oh i don't like frank Zappa the person. I still enjoy the records though
Can I add one last thing?
I saw bozzio in a drum clinic once and he sucks way worse than Zappa and steve vai also sucks, even musically. You can tell Vai could play anything a guitar could ever play but somehow he just makes it feel smelly, especially if you have to imagine his smug steve vai face. So the fact that Zappa appeals to those guys and he insults their musicality, the source of their smugness, he positions himself as Daddy to these wanky music dudes and then shows them such cruelty, that is pretty funny actually 😂😂😂
Zappa has plenty of songs empathizing with those good people that were dealt a bad hand. Im not sure if thats vulnerability but it is a wonderful message to put into the world. I think he just a bad taste in his mouth with “love you so much” type songs after covering those so much in his early days in the 50s. The man really knew too much to be anything other than cynical. And i think he was a positive force overall.
Also its weens thing to shit on bands that they secretly enjoy. Not saying that theyre huge zappa fans but i think they wanted to downplay any enjoyment that had of him to avoid constant comparisons because ultimately ween is entirely its own unique thing.
Also ween is plenty cynical. Have you listened to godweensatan? The pod? Pure guava? Their whole discography shits on stupid people constantly.
I dont think you can really compare the two cause ween is just a way more well rounded group. They just both have their own distinct sound that sets them apart from any “genre”.
It's perfectly reasonable to refer to them by their proper names Mickey and Aaron....
They might not like it because NO serious band wants to be compaired to any other musican so thats there way to stop being compaired
SPOT ON
i enjoy one zappa song
I tought you were Norm Macdonald's son.
Zappa was busting Steve Vai's balls and hired him immediately after employing him for a couple years... Zappa was NEVER insincere, sarcastic but not dishonest... If you want emotion out of Zappa's music, go to his instrumental music... If you are annoyed, you don't get it...
The Packard Goose is among the most honest and emotional songs of any artist...
From the clips you played of Ween sound far more musically primitive.
Zappa's lyrics that attack things are actually a small part if his catalog.
Ween 100% are less musically complex than Zappa, correct
"Musicaly primitive" i love Zappa but f**k off
12:07
"Whether or not it is true that he was afraid of expressing any sort of vulnerability in his music, I can certainly say that it bugs me that there's so little of it in his music. As I said earlier, there's more of that in his instrumental stuff, which is still wacky and out there, but at least it comes across to me as more earnest; there's less of like kind of just 'in your face' stuff and 'contrarianism', but when every single song, (and this guy put out a lot of music), every single song is some sort of like childish, mocking, silly thing, and is hardly even a single moment of, idk, a love song, a song about something normal, or heartfelt, or even much of a feeling of self-reflection or self-deprecation. What is he so scared of? Is it so hard to just write a positive song or be vulnerable?"
I'm interested if these Zappa songs and pieces make you feel the same way, or if you've found something else in these/how do they compare to Ween?:
1. Planet Of My Dreams th-cam.com/video/Na1dhtD2Zt8/w-d-xo.html
2. Anything th-cam.com/video/TeF8QAx5s9c/w-d-xo.html
3. Stuff up the cracks th-cam.com/video/VSn2qb5wsfc/w-d-xo.html
4. Project X minus .5 th-cam.com/video/6rgYgXRxuW4/w-d-xo.html
5. Twenty Small Cigars th-cam.com/video/guFANpwUM-E/w-d-xo.html
6. Tears Began To Fall th-cam.com/video/05Cd2o7XzhE/w-d-xo.html
7. Blessed Relief th-cam.com/video/2zXp4ZfRGsA/w-d-xo.html
8. Sleep Dirt th-cam.com/video/nojSrotOZZM/w-d-xo.html
9. Here Lies Love (Original by the 4 deuces) th-cam.com/video/E1FSCyOmvgA/w-d-xo.html
10. Nap Time (performed and mized during the last 3 years of his life) th-cam.com/video/0KHKZDMP1x8/w-d-xo.html
11. For The Young Sophisticate th-cam.com/video/K_DuOIB06Oo/w-d-xo.html
12. I'm So Happy I Could Cry th-cam.com/video/tn5XWDkrnWE/w-d-xo.html
13. Waffenspiel th-cam.com/video/j4FAr8xyHFw/w-d-xo.html
I think that's enough
I'm a big fan of Ween and Zappa and I honestly never made a correlation between the two. Besides making diverse music and occasionally having humor that's as far as the similarities go in my opinion.
Same.
I concur
theyre not a "joke band" at all
Amen
Neither is a joke. Frank sounds more sarcastic while ween seems just like weirdos. All genius in the realm of music and love them both.
I mean, they are a bit
Rub some beans n toast on it chap. Cromwell 2024
Anyone who thinks they are a joke band, jokes in them!
They're not a joke band. They just didn't abandon their sense of humor.
You can have serious lyrics without abandoning your sence of humor
@@Jeremya74ween is serious all of the time
They're having fun and they're amazing. This guy just sucks.
@@Jeremya74 and ween totally does. there's not a lot of jokes on quebec and white pepper.
Saw them live and they played for over three hours when the tickets only cost 15 bucks!
Dean and Gene strike me more as Captain Beefheart guys anyway…
help i'm a rock
help i'm a rock
help i'm a rock
help i'm a rock
help i'm a rock
help i'm a rock
help i'm a rock
call DR ROCK
I remember doot doo,I remember doot doo....they had a swimming pooooool.
And you thought it couldn't happen here......
@@davidlodge4293 weeeeeeeeeeeeen!
I'm a huge Zappa fan, But I can appreciate he's not everyone's cup of tea. And that's a good thing because it seems his music is just for me. And I love it.
I have the same critique to Zappa. I really appreciate him, but I feel like he is playing the “smart guy” character way too hard all the time. But Ween, they are just having a good time, and nothing is more fun than that.
I don't think he's playing anything, he's what you might call intellectually arrogant and assertive--someone of high cognitive and (in this case) artistic ability who likes to assert his opinions and and mocks those who are not on his level, either because they're superficial, lacking in artistic integrity ("in it for the money"), critical thinking, etc.
@@Alex-ez1lk100%
If I remember correctly, Frank commented how he only wrote music with lyrics to appease the masses and “the powers that be”, and if he did not do this he could not afford to spend the amount of energy he did on his “serious” music. He recognized that instrumental music was not enjoyed by the general public. Maybe all his lyrical writings reflected his feelings regarding this fact? The man just wanted to make MUSIC.
I'm honestly not sure what to think on this topic - from huge Zappa fans I will often hear 'Zappa only included lyrics because he HAD to, in order to sell some records and to allow him time to do instrumental stuff'. But I will also hear 'Frank didn't care about commercial success at all - it was just about his art'. These two statements are obviously totally contradictory.
I also just don't believe for a second that he 'had to' include lyrics, given that there are loads of entirely instrumental albums that sold as much, or more than any of his albums (Sheik Yerbouti is, from what I've heard, his biggest selling album at around 2 million - Jeff Beck had a couple platinum US albums for sales over 1 million, and Mike Oldfield's Tubular Bells has sold tens of millions globally. That's not even to mention all the biggest selling jazz albums, which I'd hardly call 'accessible').
I think Zappa included lyrics because he wanted to - simple as. He clearly had a certain humourous approach that he valued in his music, and he clearly thought he had interesting and valuable things to say, lyrically. I actually think the 'Zappa didn't care about his lyrics' line is a bit of a cop out.
@@bigyellowpraxis 100% correct. Frank was a brilliant guy with something to say, but he was obviously conflicted between making art and making a living.
I think his ambitions in the beginning were to include no lyrics, because it was the norm and it was more commercially viable to include lyrics. I assume he began to like writing lyrics as his career progressed. He was probably conflicted.
@@bigyellowpraxis Zappa cared about commercial in so far as to keep the wheel rolling
And this is why everyone thinks y’all are a bunch of pretentious weirdos.
Ween also have drugs and alcohol contributing to the process whereas we all know Zappa's stance on drugs. Probably also another reason why they don't like him. Plus Ween being two friends making music contributes massively to how fun their music is compared to Frank. And they never tried to be super virtuoso they just learned new things as they wrote songs and wrote new songs as a result.
This is already super long but something else to consider is Zappa's age when he started with The Mothers vs Ween's age when they started.
I’m a fan of Zappa for his music and his fights against the right wing. He cut his hair and put on a suit and tie and went to Washington to fight with the people who were trying to take away freedoms. Look where we are today, I wish he was here now.
Zappa hated both the right and the left wing.
Zappa was a self-professed conservative. He was actually libertarian. Also, the PMRC was equally Democrat and Republican.
Zappa was a Dadaist living in a land of absurdities. What comes across as sarcastic or mocking (not that it's not) should be viewed within that context.
I agree to a point! Thanks for watching
And dealing with the plastic phoney hippie shit of LOS ANGELES could give you a skewed view of society ...and the music biz just kept getting more commercial ...glad he aint around to see todays pop music
show some respect. call them 'Gener' and 'Deaner'.
Tenacious D is much more of a parody band than Ween, and I fucking love the D! KG rocks
3:06 'The biggest threat to America today is not communism--It's moving America towards a fascist Theocracy.'
I think at heart Zappa didn't feel like he was really above everyone. I think the vulnerability and wide array of emotion is everywhere in Zappas music but obviously not in his lyrics.
I feel it's pretty clear that Zappa isn't showing his 100% true self in interviews and such, but nonetheless he is still quite sarcastic and speaks his mind freely but most of the time this is literally just opinion. At the same time, before his death I believe he mellowed out and apparently spoke with people to clear the air and say sorry.
He was honestly just a really talented composer and also musician he wasn't afraid to write music which was somewhat more commercial and goofy. He was a big believer in freedom of speech but I don't believe his snarky lyrical content was born out of hate and instead it was just more provocative and purposefully absurd. I guess that's just my opinion and I'm definitely biased...
But objectively there isn't even that much Zappa music which really makes fun of people or whatever really, it's literally just Sheik Yerbouti and Joe's Garage mainly. (I haven't listened to all of the 80s albums yet though). Most of his early albums (like the first 10 or 20) just include silly kinda provocative lyrics or they're just political.
Will be surprised if anyone bothers reading this lol
I've read it! And I appreciate you puting so much thought into your reply. Thanks for watching.
Just to be clear, I don't think his approach is borne out of *hatred*, but I do find it a bit of a turn off still. Not entirely a turn off, of course - there's plenty of his stuff I really enjoy! But I kind of feel like his lyrical style can feel like something of a cop-out. I get the satire and absurdity, but when it's relentless... well, it gets a bit boring for me.
Thanks again!
How about just because it's not very good? I've never heard a Zappa song that left me feeling like I need that song in my life. I don't blame Ween for not caring for it either.
Ween is The Greatest Band Ever! I'm a Huge Fan of Them I've been listening to Ween since I was in Highschool and my friend introduced me to them.
I got hooked in the late 90s to WEEN, I totally agree, I could name 50 great WEEN songs in short order.
Ive been into ween since the 80's and Frank since the 70's I can't really compare the two, other than some if their stuff is really funny, some brilliant, and all is very different from their last. But all in all I have my favorites of both. Frank played a bicycle as an instrument on television as a young.man. and ween put out God Ween Satan on a Tascam 4 track cassette recorder from home. Both artists were driven to Excell at their craft and accomplished it very well. Everyone is prejudice, some like Coke while others prefer Pepsi. That's what's so cool about free choice.
I wouldn't take too seriously anything that Dean or Gene said. Quite often they said things that contradicted what they had said in previous interviews
Well done! You put your finger on so many points. I just got back into ween after like 15 years, and I thought they’d have been fans of Zappa as well even though I never connected with Zappa. I saw the clip where dean says he wasn’t a fan, and now it makes perfect sense. There is more of an accessible emotional quality to ween whereas Zappa always rubbed me the wrong way, and I think you nailed it.
Thanks for your kind comment, and thanks for watching
@@bigyellowpraxis for sure…. I could never put my finger on why I never got into Zappa, even though all my musician friends loved him. But it’s exactly how you outlined it.
That clip of Zappa in the 80’s talking about a fascist Christian theocracy being the greatest threat to American society really gave me chills though. Clearly a very perceptive genius.
@@jaywallinwell, honestly, after Reagan made friends with the televangelists, and they brought in their loonies, we all knew it. Frank was just the one who got to go in front of a television audience and say it publicly.
I think Zappa disliked his own lyrics and thought he *had* to write them. That comes across. He loved his audience but also had impossibly high standards. He hated averageness.
Ween sees the weirdness of everyday. They don't have an air of superiority. Zappa did.
I saw Devin Townsend saying pretty much the same about Zappa's music a few days ago. As much as I love Zappa's music I agree he is a little accusatory.
Ween are artists who genuinely do not take themselves seriously
Zappa was a composer... Who too himself VERY SERIOUSLY
Both are a good listen. But Ween is fun and interesting and deep. FZ is weird for the sake of weird.
I could critique Zappa, but for what’s good, it’s immaculate. I could criticize Ween, but for what’s good, it’s untouchable for sure
They are totally separate entities in my honest opinion
I agree with Ween in a very general sense. Frank Zappa’s worst examples of weird shallow irony could only come from a mind that’s totally apathetic and bored. But the dude had some real heart. So I couldn’t totally agree…
Ween called joke band again? Its f n 2023 not 1985 anymore yo
Different strokes for different folks! I love both and enjoy them in their own ways. Yay.
Thanks for watching. I like them both, too!
They're. the. same. band! Maybe it's WEEN that is intimidated, or whatever word the guy said, by Zappa (which all bands should be) BTW, I like WEEN better, shhh
If any Ween fans haven't watched them at the South Park anniversary concert, you need to get on it. Now!
I’m a huge ween fan. The only part of Zappa’s music I enjoy are the ripping guitar solos. Great video!
Same. Shut up n’ play your guitar are my faves.
I right there with you brother. I’ve never cared for Zappa’s music either. And as a musician and music snob I know this is a hot take to have.
turned it off when u compared them to tenacious D
Zappa was an innovative guitar player but an execrable fraud in every other aspect of his life.
explain??
Holy Spot on! You nailed exactly how I feel about Zappa, too! I want to love him, but his insincere and better than thou attitude ...my guitar wants to kill your mama ❤ Ween is the the best band in my opinion 🤘🏼🤎 Also love the Yellow River Boys!!!💛
Thanks for watching, and thank you for the kind comment!
the similarities begin and end with both Gene & Dean and Frank Zappa having good senses of humor. and being talented. that's pretty much it.
This was a great video! Zappa was a cynic while Ween are absursists
YES they are the nineties pastiche successors of the Beatles! What band ever attempted more styles? I can't think one
Beastie Boys did spoken word, Rap, Country, Punk, Folk, Hip Hop, Hard Rock and probably more that I can't think of right now. Ween, though... they took each style and mocked it with skills beyond most of the people they were mocking.
Frank Zappa was engaged in basic research in music. There was no telling whether any ideas he pursued were going to lead anywhere good; it was only certain to lead somewhere *new* .
I love Ween. I don't understand why they don't admire Zappa, tho.
That's fair. Thanks for watching!
Frank was an ahole. Ween and Frank are both great. This guy gave an awesome description of Frank though The Bougnish rises soon
Thanks or watching!
just saw this in the ween subreddit, great video mate
Phish in the 90s picked up where Zappa left off - in the best possible way. Too bad we don’t know what Zappa thought about Trey.
Is Uncle Remus sarcastic? It seems pretty genuine to me, but sometimes Zappa's snark can be subtle.
Tim Heidecker doesnt like Zappa, but has mentioned Ween as an early inspiration.
gregg heads aint gonna like this
Never heard of him.
The disgusting music by shit zappa, makes you throw up 😂
Zappa was a pretentious, bad-ass musician.
Ween badly pretends to be ass musicians.
Deaner is a brilliant guitarist and Claude is a fantastic drummer, Gener ain't a half bad singer either.
Cool analysis. I am a fan of FZ and Ween. But yeah, Ween doesn't have the arrogance of FZ. Also I would have to mention FZ's misogyny. But I still enjoy much of it. I'm going to try a cover of Uncle Remus, with much simpler guitar solos
Thank for watching - glad you liked it.
zappa skilled ween unskilled, just sayin
You're not wrong - but skill isn't everything!
Another great video. I like how you try to analyse music and one's reaction to music. A lot of the music talking guys (yeah, still mostly guys) on YT don't get much further than "awesome" and such. Funny that only yesterday after some consideration I had to decide to move Zappa's Joe's Garage double CD from the living room CD cupboards to the B- grade collection in the attic to make room for a newly acquired Van der Graaf Generator live album. I simply decided Joe's Garage was probably the one I was least likely to listen to ever again. I'm sure I never listened to it all the way through in one go.
Zappa was extremely arrogant. Ween is often much darker. Polka dot tail is about a man slipping in and out of dementia. It's actually very sad.
Zappa was phenomenal as a guitarist but most of his music is like being at a circus on lsd with a guy that always wanted to be a stand up comic that also judges you for being on acid.
Frank Zappa probably mimicked their schtick similar to the AI nonsense going on. He was also giving off cointelpro vibes. Zappa was suspicious as fvck along with the sex offenders in the band and his dad from deep inside the military.
Dont forget the many fans whose insecurity is hidden behind their pretentiousness saying things like you dont get it. The music is very contrived, being made to show the composers superiority. Ive always liked Zappas music but these things are plain to see. Ween loves a lot of different music and they wear their influences on their sleeves. They can sum up a bands entire career in one riff.
Frank Zappa stated that the reason he put out so much music with lyrics was that it sold better, and he "had a family to support". That was his reasoning, right-or-wrong. His heart was only in the instrumental stuff, according to he-himself. Of course this could be just another self-defense mechanism. Source is "The Real Frank Zappa Book"
Oh yes, I know he said that. I just don't entirely believe it. I think he actually had stuff he wanted to say lyrically, and he did it because he wanted to. And it's not like his songs - i.e. with lyrics - were actually commercial at all. In fact, one could argue they were the biggest barrier to commerciality for him, given how often the lyrics court controversy
@@bigyellowpraxis It seems like his stuff with lyrics was the most commercially successful at the time by far (Yellow Snow etc), but I see what you mean. Just saying "I didn't care as much" is definitely a defense mechanism for creative people, I know this firsthand from my own self. And, would an artist of his skill and ambitiousness really have been happy just throwing out a lot of nothing lyrics? Still, it's good to know his line on it.
@@Logus57 yeah, it just doesn't make sense to say 'I write some bits of music with lyrics in order to be more commercial' while at the same time writing very uncommercial lyrics that don't do what you're saying you want them to do. I guess one could argue that he did it *partly* to realise more commercial success, while also wanting to not compromise on his beliefs or vision entirely.
But even then, there was LOADS of music through the 60s and 70s that was entirely instrumental that sold millions.
@@bigyellowpraxis yeah he's no Vangelis. He did submit orchestral work in the 60s that got rejected and that really affected him. He also signed "outsider music" acts out of empathy and would make ascerbic statements like the atonal The Shaggs being better than The Beatles. The Shaggs being 100% outsider music. The song Nig Biz by FZ is about Smokey Robinson getting screwed over by the record industry for royalties by the execs distracting him with drugs, clothes and girls. The vulnerability was definitely there, but a casual listener wont spot it.
Village of the sun is nostalgic,Take your clothes off when you dance is body positive and so is Whats the ugliest part of your body.
I like Zappa but Dean and Gene are right; Zappa often wasn't as clever as he thought he was. He thought he was being incisive and satirical and was to some degree--albeit, smugly so, but it came out as corny boomer humor and made many of his songs feel like an unfunny joke. I will have to listen to his discography front to back, though, because he does have stuff worth listening to.
When you hear the question, "Can you separate the musician from the Music?" like in reference to R. Kelly for example, is this Zappa conversation sort of the opposite? Saying Ween is not mean but Zappa is? First of all one quarter or more of the world (and in America) is seriously fuqqed up people. They would destroy America in 2 seconds if they could. To say these idiots don't deserve a good Zappa song is just naive. I've been a Zappa fan since 1973 and I never once got the impression Frank was mean or demeaning i.e. Dumb All Over, Jewish Princess, Bobby Brown, it's hard to be more mean than "The Blue Light" from Tinseltown album. Frank says he is a conduit, he watches the news, and reinterprets it, for us. The only way this opinion is valid is if Zappa music sucked, and or wasn't funny. Professional comedians says, "The more mean your joke is the funnier it has to be, it's directly proportional." Ween is a awesome band they need to stop taking themselves so serious. Lighten up fellas you do great music!
Well when is my favorite band and as far as I know I happen to be the most prolific ween cover artist out there (I only said prolific, not necessarily any good by the way), and I don't like Frank Zappa either. Make sense. Plus if it makes sense to whoever that they should like such and such they're probably not going to like it because that's how they roll. You know they're legit.
Also, can I make the point that music is the only artistic genre that can accidentally become an immediate stance, even when that stance is “originally” unintentional. I do love Zappa, but goddamn if he Isn’t just mean.
I feel a lot of what you are saying about Frank Zappas lyrics, jazz discharge party hats is very gross and makes him look bad I think. Or the enima bandit, but I really don't think anyone would make music like he did if they were afraid of being vulnerable, both lyrically and musically. Cruising with Ruben and the jets, or like uncle meat? I see his music as very sincere and honest throughout, I think it would be far more tame if he was afraid to be himself. Ween has much more vulnerable lyrics without a doubt, but I don't see frank as much of a lyricist. I listen to frank for the dense crazy musicianship, improv solos, I deeply love both Ween and Zappa, but I enjoy them for very different reasons. like I don't think a Allen Holdsworth or John McLoughlin fan would necessarily dig ween like I would expect them to maybe appreciate Frank for his solos. I think the biggest thing Frank Zappa and Ween have in common is being like nothing else out there, completely unique and unafraid to be what it is. all very honest and sincere music, i don't think either of them could fake it
Ween kinda reminds me of bloodhound gang who had amazing chops & were alternative as well because they had creative freedom in their hands!
People do the wildest shit when they got free reigns to do whatever the hell as a creative & frank zappa is a great example of that genius especially to be in mothers of invention while doing all the other stuff he crusaded for in his life as a free spirited creative dude which still shows from how he
rocked out✊
I feel like you have no understanding of Ween or Frank Zappa. Ween just says whatever they want to. When I saw them live Gene Ween introduced the stallion part 3 by saying, "If it wasn't for Frank Zappa I never would have written this song."
Giant fan of both. Ween is one of the greatest live shows you can go to, with one of my favorite drummers ever. Shout out Claude! I don’t think Frank was sarcastic at all, I think it was extremely satirical. I actually don’t think he was a lighthearted guy, he was extremely serious and used his music to draw attention to what he saw as folly and contradiction in society. He was probably the most intentional musician we will see in our lifetime. If you weren’t as serious about the music as he was, he didn’t want you around, which is why his hiring process was so rigorous, but once you were in, people spoke so positively about him. He saw himself much more as a conductor than a musician. The happiest I’ve ever seen Zappa is footage of him being welcomed by the U.S. Navy Band at an airport, by them playing Joe’s Garage, which he immediately started beaming and conducting. I get how he may not be someone’s cup of tea, but I don’t think he was flippant about his music. I get the sense he felt it was his duty to address these issues. Look at the interviews and panels he did on political and talk shows. He’s extremely concerned and serious.
Who could possibly like, Captain Beefheart's, music? It's an awful noise. Not anyone's cup of tea, but I like it. And I can see why most people don't.
That's only Trout Mask Replica you are referring to because _all_ his other albums do serve less strong tea and are therefor much more accessible to the normies. The Don and his Magic Band even played at PinkPop, and that was (and to this day still is) _the_ most successful annual commercial music festival here in the Netherlands.
I've never liked the pretentiousness around Zappa's music, or with some of the prog rock bands that always get hailed as "geniuses". It's always "you just don't get it man".
Or it just sucks. Has nothing to do with intelligence, it turns out that his music sucks. There's plenty of weird quirky music out there that is enjoyable.
Frank Zappa was barely entertaining to me when I was a teenager. It's just abstract technical nonsense. Same thing goes for Mr. Bungle.
What a surprise that so many poorly informed opinions are displayed here... the too dumb to know how dumb you are problem in some cases could probably be solved by attentively to listening to his instrumental compositions, (at least to the point where the stuff plays back in the head). The music of Mingus, Coltrane, Mozart, Hendrix, Miles Davis and Zappa will be around way after the current crop of haters has passed on.