Quattro ULTRA or TORSEN? Audi A4 Allroad vs Audi A5 Sportback - 4x4 test on rollers
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How to discern Quattro Ultra from Torsen in a roller test? (video with subtitles).
Audi A4 Allroad 2.0 TFSI Quattro Ultra (2018)
vs
Audi A5 Sportback 2.0 TFSI Quattro (2017)
#duszaniespokojna #quattro #audi
A5 2.0 TFSI 2017 is imposible torsen, only quattro ultra.
Nope. Up to August 2017 there was torsen.
Possible
When the impossible becomes possible. Quattro. 🤷♂️
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers Torsen or crown gear? Is it possible to know in the roller test?
@@Peridiello Unfortunately no. But crown gear diff is very rare.
I like how this channel progresses in understanding and explaining the technology used and tested.
I think the creator always knew the facts. What is new is that the creator now educates the viewer. I like that a lot! Especially since there are tons of fanboys who are very deep in the Dunning-kreuger-effect.
Ye i also love how they steal someones content
@@aak8297 Who steals someones content??
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers can i ask you if an A5 40 TDI Quattro has a Torsen or not? It Is impossibile to find an answer!
@@evideonic I need more info - production year, gearbox type and region/country.
I like the old torsen.
Is clearly better
@@matteocascio112 exactly so
Молодец. Возьми с полки пирожок...
My mom has the 2020 A6 with Quattro Ultra. The video mentioned the clutch pack is closed at startup, but that is not the case, it is open and closes in milliseconds. Allowing the car to be front wheel driven unless you need the traction. This results in 2-3 liters per 100km decrease in fuel consumption. And as we saw, it is absolutely identical to the old Torsen.
@@littlebuch Clutch-pack is closed at start up, Ultra always starts in AWD. It needs 200 miliseconds, it is far too much during start. And it needs rotation to engage, that's why it always engages before the car stops. Fuel consumption decrease is about 0,2-0,3/100 kilometres in relation to standard system.
Excellent demonstration. Let's remember the difference. Other is purely mechanical and other is an electronically driven clutch pack. There is no question about it, the mechanical torsen will always be more reliable. Because it is analog. It will never fail.
Thanks. That is torsen C. It is not so reliable as A, there are much more parts, including friction plates. But for sure more reliable than pure clutch-pack.
Sami N, with Torsen there will also be more fuel consumption. You can't have both (fuel efficiency and AWD capability)
@@spymaster07 what if you want to drive more aggressively? Are they both same useful?
@@c4n15lupu5 if you want to drive more aggresively I don't think there is any difference between them.
And these tests on rollers are all pretty irrelevant for most real life situations.
@@spymaster07 Tests on rollers vs real life situations: th-cam.com/video/926i0zqteXE/w-d-xo.html
Great job with the new English comments and explanations ! 🤟
Old Torsen, the best!!
After watching all your videos, and many off road ones I came to the conclusion that the ''Torsen'' ''Ultra'' ''Haldex'' mean nothing since 2 vehicles can have the same platform and same AWD like ( Q3 vs Tiguan) and one would work well off road and the other would suck, similarly the Ultra system on Q5 seems far better than the one on the A4 Allroad, it all depends on the way traction control/AWD is programmed by the manufacturer some AWD are designed for spirited driving and performance while others for traction and safety.
Exactly, that's what I am saying since some years - nowadays all awd competiton is on software level. Especially that almost all mechanics come from three big manufacturers and they are very similar.
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers If anything I would say that the real conclusion is that they are all pretty darn good these days. Obviously some differences in behavior but they are all plenty capable, whether it's Haldex, Torsen, or Ultra.
jp ch i f dco stand as usual for subaru sawd powertrain.
Ever the best with no much compromise.
@@loxlover1714 Agree. However my only point here is to show how to identify Ultra and Torsen in roller tests. Both systems are still in use by Audi and sometimes it is really not clear which one is in particular models.
But the Discovery (2 and 3) win vs all. And Tesla also, but it's not the same thing when u have 1 engin each wheel :D.
I wonder if it be possible to have little footnote in one of the corners, saying what car & spec is on show? Love the education at the beginning 👍.
Now it is too late, but at the beginning of the video and in the description below the video all details are mentioned.
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers just for future videos, as I normally just open your videos straight away without looking notes before hand. Plus for those who are not car nerds, will not know which car which.
@@GGMan Do you skip first ten seconds or just do not read?
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers i think he maybe doesnt know which car is the a4 and which the a5
@@der_pabst866 Next videos will have thumbnails with photos and names of the cars. And the same will be in the intro. All the viewers have to do is to watch these 5 seconds at the beginning.
Robicie świetną robotę
Dzięki!
@@4x4.tests.on.rollersFajna Suzi. Czerwoniutka :)
Pozdrowienia z Warszawy! Dobra robota@@4x4.tests.on.rollers
@@MitcosDzięki, pozdrawiamy!
Oglądając to porównanie naszła mnie refleksja, że niewątpliwie oba rozwiązania mają swoje plusy i minusy. Miałem kiedyś Torsen-a, inteligentne sprzęgło mam teraz. Podobnie jak inni użytkownicy, którzy jeździli starszymi Subaru, a potem przesiedli się do SAWD na sprzęgle, narzekali głównie, że jak rusza się z miejsca przy skręconych kołach wyraźnie czuć poślizg osi przedniej, nim tył się na dobre zblokuje. Taka sytuacja nie dotyczy napędów, gdzie dołącza się przód. Nie było też tego w centralnym dyferencjale, a tym bardziej w Torsenie. Fajnie było by dołożyć do Twoich testów próbę gdzie przednia oś jest na rolkach, ale na maksymalnie skręconych kołach.
Robiłem kiedyś test na maksymalnie skręconych kołach - Subaru XV. Jest to dosyć problematyczne, bo przed najechaniem trzeba ustawić rolki w różnych odległościach od opon, przy ruszaniu auto ucieka z rolek na bok itd. Forestera na skręconych kołach testował dyrektor Subaru Polska. Testy Mazdy w tej konfiguracji zapewne widziałeś. Może przy jakiejś okazji sprawdzę, jak to wygląda w Suzuki w praktyce. Wg komputera - na postoju, przy kołach ustawionych prosto trzyma zapięty napęd, przy skręconych tylko na moment przy naciśnięciu pedału gazu i rozłącza.
Co do napędów z dołączanym przodem - przy skręconych kołach prawdopodobnie jest tylko rwd lub tylko minimalnie zapięty przód aby uniknąć podsterowności, która przy takim układzie napędu jest większa niż dla samochodów z dołączanym tyłem.
Dokładnie. Subaru na skręconych bez gazu nie jedzie. Czasem jak potrzebuje szybko wyjechać z podporządkowanej na skręconych, to przytrzymuje wcześniej hamulcem plus gaz, albo ruszam z x-mode.
Fantastic channel! Love the narrator with extra info!
But hey u can't throw a 4 mins of video which covers every aspect. It's not American style! Where is drama, meaningless talking, advertisements.... :)
Thank you for video
Which ones which again please. Btw your channel is really useful for showing AWD in action!
@@vinceking7878 Like stated in the beginning of the video - A4 Allroad has ultra, A5 has torsen.
thanks for creating the video with english explanation =) i just purchased an used 2018 Audi a4 Allroad to replace my 2011 A4 Quattro 6 speed. going to miss the manual transmission and Torsen technology but hello Quattro Ultra =)
Let me know your driving impressions about torsen and ultra 🙂
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers hello again, it has been about 3 months since I first drove the 2018 A4 allroad.
so i noticed in my initial acceleration, i definitely feel the A4 Allroad Quattro Ultra has more grip to the ground more than A4 Quattro Torsen . i can feel i get more push back force to my seat in the Allroad than my old A4.
multi times i pushed my car to do high speed tight 180 degree highway exit turns , Quattro ultra feels more stable and able to turn that corner much tighter than the Torsen.
finally the biggest transition i have to make it’s the transmission speed. with manual, my response is way faster than the automatic LOL. quite often, i will manual change gears instead of waiting for the automatic to down or up shift.
one down side with the Quattro ultra is the uneven wear down on front and back set of tires, i guess i just have to rotate the tires more often than before.
@@vancouverphotography Thanks! In other words, people moaning on ultra are probably those who never drove it...
@@vancouverphotography Interesting... was your 2011 equipped with active suspension as well? I had also owned 2011 avant quattro and replaced that with one of the last b9s of 2017 (february production) before they switched it to ultra. They are very similar cars, but active suspension that was missing on my b8 is a noticable difference.
@@chopperpl when did the B9s switch to ultra ? Because I own an A4 B9 Allroad from April 2017, 2.0 TDI manual, I’m from Belgium but I don’t know if I have a Torsen or an ultra (haldex)…
Both drive variants work. The real difference can be found on the front axle. The electrical differential lock (EDL) is programmed differently. Adapted to the respective drive or its philosophy. With Ultra Quattro, the control unit actively transfers power backwards first time, the EDL on the front axle remains passive - it only reacts later. The video show this perfectly. With the Torsen Quattro it is known that the torque is distributed with a response time of 0ms between front and rear. Here the EDL on the front axle can react earlier, which is an advantage over the Ultra Quattro when only one wheel has grip there. But this is only a time advantage. I think that in real life it won't have that extreme an impact. What you notice is the difference in the response time between Ultra and Torsen, the Torsen looks calmer overall. I have two current A4: one with Ultra and the other with Torsen.
Ultra always starts with all wheel drive fully engaged, so no difference here between ultra and torsen.
EDL only reacts when traction is lost. If it reacts earlier - that only means that the traction was lost earlier.
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers I only mean the reaction if only one front wheel has grip. I was talking about the difference between the EDL on the front axle. Here, the EDL reacts to the torsion rather because there is no reaction time to check the traction on the rear axle. The Ultra drives 50:50, that's for sure. The system then takes torque off at the rear to check for loss of traction. It recognizes this and then reacts due to the steering angle of almost 0 degrees with the intervention of the EDL on the front axle to expand traction there. This takes time because it is a responsive EDL system.
@@KCKNV Can't agree. If only one front wheel has traction then the reaction time will be the same as for FWD version. No waiting for any other feedback. As I remember Ultra has ~15 independent channels.
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers AWDs with couplings (Ultra, Haldex etc.) need time to react and to check whether there is slippage or the car is simply driving. The EDL is tailored to this. Perhaps an FWD reacts just as slowly to prevent understeer - this will probably reduce the understeer somewhat. But with the Torsen Quattro you can work differently with the EDL, as there is no reaction time for the power distribution. Logical, actually. :-) By EDL I only mean the cross lock of the axles themselves, not between front and back!
I love my torsen, dosent matter in what position your at, its still feels like on rails
I have a 2018 A5 (like the black one here) with the torsen system. I wonder what the reasoning is for having the delay before all wheels are engaged at launch? Also I wonder if a rear-wheel bias with the front wheels engaging when needed would be better? Launching off front wheels seems illogical? But when you floor it off the start there is great traction, even in the wet and with the traction control off
Are you sure you have torsen? When it comes to delay - it's not a delay, this is how differential works. Furthermore - with no EDL intervention, it would got stuck and spin only rear or front axle.
Torsen Quattro are only in longitudinal mounted Audis, and they’re always mechanically locked to the rear. Haldex “Quattro” is in transverse mounted Audis and is fwd until the fronts slip. My b5s4 is gen 4 torsen awd (meaning it has torsen center diff) and is always on awd.
Torsen is mechanically connected with both axles, not only the rear. Haldex is not FWD until front slips, that's how it worked over 20 years ago (gen 1 & 2).
Ahh, komentarz w lingłydżu! ;-))
Tak czy owak - do Karpacza wolałbym wjeżdżać po śniegu samochodem z Torsenem.
Testy na rolkach są... wiecie ;-) Dla wyświetleń :P
Testy na rolkach vs rzeczywiste sytuacje: th-cam.com/video/926i0zqteXE/w-d-xo.html
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers Zaskoczę Cię.
1: Już się potykaliśmy na kiepskie komentarze
2: rozumiem walkę o wyświetlenia i walkę o uznanie własnej, bezsensownej metodyki
3: nieumiejętność użycia napędu w danym aucie nie przesądza o jaego przydatności dla świadomego kierowcy.
4: Samochodem nie jeździsz po rolkach. Samochodem jeździsz dynamicznie, po dynamicznie zmieniającym się podłożu z dynamicznie zmieniającą się przyczepnością.
Dziękuję, dobranoc.
@@scobikpoznan 1. Niestety nie pamiętam, ale bardzo mi miło, że powracasz oglądnąć kolejne materiały i wyrazić swoją opinię. O to chodzi.
2. To Twoja opinia, jedna z tysięcy. Zwracam uwagę, iż wielokrotnie podkreślam w komentarzach, że testy na rolkach nie są żadną wyrocznią nad napędem i nie mówią nic o dynamicznym aspekcie jego pracy. Z tego powodu nie dokonuję także żadnych ocen czy rankingów.
3. Nie wiem do czego nawiązujesz, ale jeśli to tak ogólnie, to oczywiście +1.
4. Patrz pkt 2.
Nie ma za co, cała przyjemność po mojej stronie.
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers Wyjaśniony kulturalnie +1 :)
Polska!
What are those wheels? stock?
One thing rollers can explain is the feeling on the road. Because quattro ultra is front bias and torsen is rear bias is a big difference. You can drift more easy and also if you get stuck in an incline fore example the fact that in quattro torsen it has a slip all 4 wheels will help you get move in big snow for example. And with the quattro ultra you wouldn’t move in extreme condition!
What do you mean by saying that quattro torsen has a slip all 4 wheels? Torsen is responsible for axles, not the wheels. It starts with two axles but so is ultra. Furthermore, ultra can lock the axles together while torsen can't.
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers the fact the wheels slip before they go off the rollers it will help you in deep snow. You need all for sliping a bit in deep snow to get move. I gave a torsen and a haldex, when a wheel is sliping the haldex is stoping it, so you can’t get momentum. In hard conditions, off road, deep snow the most important thing is momentum.
@@Porschelover456 In case of torsen, wheels slip only when there is big difference of grip between front and rear wheels. The difference must be higher than TBR of torsen. And when they slip - it means that the traction is lost so EDL must kick in. That's much worse scenario than starting with two axles locked together, then each axle prevents the another from losing grip. Haldex is not quattro ultra. Besides, haldex is not stopping the slipping wheels, EDL brakes them, the same way in haldex, ultra or torsen.
Çok güzel bir test olmuş elinize sağlık 🙏🎉
это шедевр!
Дело даже не в то съедет или нет, а сколько проживет муфта при активном пробуксовывании а торсен это чистая механика ее не перегреть только сломать. И да спойлер интересное в конце.
Which one is better and why?
Good job man Awesome channel keep up good work
Torsen on F150 works like lucking def not much wheel spin but on audi its let the wheel spin lot longer
So probably the torsen on F150 has much higher TBR.
It’s because the F150 has a Torsen differential (lsd) in the front and rear differentials. The center has a transfer case to transfer power to the front wheels once you engage 4WD. The Torsen in this car is referring to the center differential. The Audi’s have open differentials in the front and rear
@@alauen Are you sure? I see front torsen there as an option, but not rear. And not center, that's correct. But F150 is not available in Europe, so I may be wrong.
@@alauen Well some versions of the Ford F-150 and all versions of the Ford Expedition use use a Multi-plate Clutch pack a lot like the Quattro ultra system, only primary drive goes to back not the front. And you can manually lock it by selecting 4H or 4L
Hello, I have the Audi A4 B9 Avant 2018 Quattro, but it does not say it is ULTRA (most probably not as it does not mention it on the decription) does it mean it is Torsen ? Thanks!
There is no Ultra name on quattro ultra cars. What engine do you have?
Что и требовалось доказать: старый добрый механический Торсен рулит! И как покажет себя надежность системы спустя 200 тысяч километров?
Witam Panowie, świetna robota na kanale. Poczytałem komentarze o A5 2.0 TFSI. Dla pewności. A5 2.0 TFSI 252 KM S-Tronic rejestrowane po raz pierwszy 01/2017 to Torsen, zgadza się?
Witam, dzięki. Zgadza się, ten rocznik jeszcze ma torsena, konkretnie CSM.
My b7 s4 avant is a beast in this tahoe snow. Strait up driftn. Naw but it does good im hapoy with the system. Rain or snow im very confident
Old Quattro's from 1980 had NO center differential. Not even an open one. They had a fixed connection to both axles still. That made the rear axle become bumpy. It was not possible to use the hand brake to take hairpin turns. On the other hand at that time in the turing cars sports they had no ani-lock braking system, but because of that fixed connection between both axles they were able to brake very late and hard into a corner. If you don't believe it just ask Walter Röhrl or Hans-Joachim Stuck. :-)
That's not correct. First generation (1980-1987) had open center differential + locker. Rally version might not have center diff.
Torsen is the best.. facts bro😌
Torsen the best 👍👍
Duszaniespokojna 🤔
Super materiał !
Audi a5,2.0 tfsi[f5] Up 2017 ist ultra or Torsen)?? Thank you.
Up to August 2017 it's torsen.
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers audi a5 2.0 tfsi (f5) it's haldex?
@@samicoman9886 Since September 2017 it's quattro ultra.
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers 😪😪😪 i want to buy 2.0 tfsi... but i want quattro torsen. 3.0 tfsi?
@@samicoman9886 Find the one up to August 2017.
To który jest lepszy bo nie widzę roznicy?
Tu nie ma lepszy czy gorszy, są po prostu inne. Ogólnie napęd na torsenie jest uważany za bardziej przewidywalny, ale w niektórych warunkach to ultra może okazywać się lepsze.
End who winn?
This is only about the recognition of the system.
Co Torsen to Torsen stary ciężki mechaniczny skuteczny układ napędowy 👍
I hope to see soon Quattro with Sport differential :)
So far I couldn't find any, but I don't think it will change a thing :)
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers I hear that it can act like LSD, so semi diff lock
It would be interesting to see :)
@@elzrinja365 It can't, there's an open diff in the heart of sport differential. It is overspeeding diff, not lsd.
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers Ok, but anyway I hope to see Quattro with Sport diff on your test.
hi, 2018 6speed manual a4,can u please tell me is it haldex or torsen?
Haldex was never ever used in any A4. It may have torsen or quattro ultra, depends on market (Europe, America?)
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers america,but this a4 definitely assembled in europe. because i google it,2018 is the last year a4 have manual transmission, and it is all assembled europe,and provid china several,provide usa dozens
maybe this 2018 a4 manual quattro is quattro ultra, probably automatic transmission use torsen
@@abbottim2268 If it's European then it's ultra.
Не тот автомобиль был назван «все дороги» А5 шикарна просто отработала «вывешивание» трез колес
Похоже audi a5 дизель, хотя могу ошибаться.
Сергей Перфильев в начале указано, что двигателя у обоих авто 2 литра бензин. Что в таких «тепличных» условиях минимизирует разницу в типе двигателя
@@IiiiGORprotasov Понятно ,спасибо.
Тру олрод кончился на А6-С5. Почти тру кончился на А4 B8.5 с торсеном. Текущее поколение уже и не с тем клиренсом, и кватро уже ультра, скорее просто дань традициям на современных рельсах. Но он все равно хорош!
Torsen!!
Honestly a bit of a toss whether one is better than the other. I used to believe a mechanical system like Torsen is better than Haldex or quattro Ultra but the difference is so minute it honestly is kind of a toss for standing start.
In performance driving that might be a different story however.
Какой вывод то ? Ничего не понял))
Very good lesson.
So which performed better in the test then. looked exactly the same, who won?
I have old Quattro with center and rear diff lock😎
Come for a test 🙂
Что лучше ? Old torsen?
Mr Uysm что то херня, что это херня, это обе херни, что я едал
Торсен с задней блокой.
Или торсен с задней блокой и имитациями =)
Или если еще задний торсен и имитации)
КолхоSники в данное время всё имитация, и чем дальше тем больше.
@@MrUysm я про старые блокировки редуктора, которые были до 94 года) У меня сейчас стоит EDS+блокировка в редукторе, но вакуум сейчас не подцеплен.
So they’re both good?
Imho - yes.
Yes, they are both good because they are the same AWD system for the most part, one its called "ultra" because its newer and for marketing purposes.
@@henrickhansel Ultra has NOTHING to do with torsen. It is completely different system from top to bottom.
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers I wonder about the reliability. And also the feel, does it still feel AWD?
@@gigel99324 Search for a channel called "Pashtette", that guy is pushing Ultra to the limit. Definitely awd. When it comes to reliability - I have no idea, that's quite new system.
a nowa a5 nie ma czasem juz haldexa? poprzednia na 100% miala torsen ale przy tej nie dam sobie reki uciac
W A5 nigdy nie było haldexa. Od 08.2017 może być Quattro Ultra, zależy od wersji.
Hi, does the Quattro ultra work as FWD at highhway speeds? Just like Haldex? (If i remember correctly after a certain speed the Haldex 5 is working as FWD)
While cruising in good conditions both systems switch to FWD. I don't think there's a speed limit.
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers Torsen works as fwd in normal conditions? My understanding is that torsen in the A5 is permanent awd with 60% power defaulting to rear
@@-.__.__.-Rad Question and answer was about quattro ultra and haldex, not about torsen which of course is permanent awd.
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers Sorry - I missed that
Both are good but the Torsen wins it for me.
Is it weak at idle? Or at least at low revs?
What do you mean by weak?
Jesli chodzi o taką A5 2,0 tfsi 252 km, to zawsze byl torsen? Ma znaczenie EU lub US?
Torsen był zawsze do sierpnia 2017. Jeśli jakikolwiek młodszy rocznik mógł mieć torsena, to tylko z rynku USA/Kanada, ale tu już trzeba sprawdzić konkretny egzemplarz.
So the new quattro (ultra) is not 4x4 anymore? Its closer to bmw xDrive just opposite since bmw has constant torque to the rear and when need engages and disengages front wheels
Yes, that's proactive awd system where rear wheels are disengaged.
@@Legotechs In some models it does.
Kupiłem nowe audi a5 40tfsi quattro rocznik 2021. Jaki napęd posiadam?
Quattro Ultra.
Do the old TT vs new TT
OK 👍
Hi! From where I can buy those rollers, I want to try these tests with my friends, we all have Audi and we are curious? Thank you!
Hi, I made them by myself. You can find many tests of Audi cars on my channel.
Audi 100 win test :)
I dont know if im right but if you have ASR which brakes the wheel that spins freely you can get a kinda "locking" effect if on the same axle one wheel spins and stands. I dont have it in my A4 B5 quattro and in real life situations it will probably be fine but in the tests it may be worse. But from this is from quattro to quattro driver, so no strong emotions or hate :)
Alex Alex no, it has a real diff lock wich you can turn on by pressing a button (only rear)
Diff lock anyone?
Quattro ultra is an excellent System. Just enjoy it😊
Интересно было бы увидить а6 и рс6
Which of the two has my 3.0 TDI 4F FL?
Torsen. Quattro ultra debuted in 2016 but anyway it is not combined with 3.0 diesels.
Torsen ist beste aber gibt,s ab 3.0 Motorisierungen denke ich
Currently torsen is in configurations >500 Nm (A4, A5, A6, A7 and Q5).
Does a 2009 Audi A4 2.0t prestige have the ultra?
No, Ultra was introduced in 2016.
A litlle sugestion... as i watched it, i had to look closer and pay attention what audi is what. For me was better if it was written for every test under the car witch traction was ultra and witch was torsen
That's stated at the intro, in the narration and in the description under the movie :)
In your opinion is Quattro Ultra worth the extra price over FWD? To me it seems everyone loves to bash Ultra. (Asking to the 4x4 test on rollers :))
Yes, it's definitely worth. Opinions about ultra are like opinions about haldex - usually delivered by people who never ever drove a car with such awd system, especially the latest generations. Ultra may not be as capable as permanent quattro systems but it doesn't mean it's a bad system.
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers Awesome. I always get wheelspin when I accelerate a bit too hard in mn FWD A4 and am probably going to get an A4 Allroad next.
@@DB-yi5sm For day-to-day driving you wouldn't even notice if it's ultra or torsen. That's something that experienced driver could notice if car was pushed to the limits. Of course sofa experts have different opinion...
Ultra 👌
Whre csn i buy them rollers ???
Sefl made.
Is it possible that you make a test wie a VW T6 4motion vs Mercedes V Class 4matic?
It would be very interesting because there is 1 Video on TH-cam on Ice and this Video is not so serious like yours.
That would be great but it will be really hard to find these cars...
Yes, that will be very interssting: T6 vs. V-Class.
A6 2016 2.0 tdi quatrro have? Ultra or torsen?
Torsen: th-cam.com/video/9xg0zcn62xQ/w-d-xo.html
Thank you
все-таки торпеде как-то мягче срабатывает. электроника не всегда корректно и адекватно себя ведет. железо более предсказуемо себя ведет.
Hello guys Im south korean, first i apologize to you because my english is shit and i hope you understand my reply
i bought a5 40tfsi quattro 2021 7th stronic
I wonder the ultra system is based rear? Or front?
And ultra's default drive wheel is awd?
Hello! Are you sure your car has quattro ultra? 40 TFSI for Europe has ultra but for North America it has torsen. Check which version you have 🙂
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers maybe europe version... maybe because 12v mhev system is setuped, 14hp up so 204hp
I heard that if 12v mhev is setup, that is ultra
So.... which based....? I really curios..
@@user-lo3iv5my9b If it is European then it has quattro ultra, FWD based system.
Is the new 2021 a5 still Torsen Or it's using the Quattro ultra?
Only 50 TDI still has torsen, other are ultra.
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers Thank you for reply! I think both s4 and s5 are torsen based system, is that right?
@@nyanpasschen483 Yes, any version of A4 or A5 with more than 500 Nm is torsen.
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers Do you know when did audi started putting Quattro Ultra in to 45tfsi A5? The A5 in your test video was equipped with Torsen center differential, but the new one no longer have? I heard people saying that the Coupe and Sportback have different awd system, is that true?
@@nyanpasschen483 Ultra was implemented into A5 in August 2017 but not into all versions, depended on engine, gearbox and market. In the past a few versions of A5 had crown gear center differential instead of torsen.
Therefore this ultra works more or less like BMW Xdrive but it's front biased instead of rear biased system
Furthermore, both systems come from the same producer and they even share some mechanical unit.
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers Who is it, ZF, steyr or someone else? I'm really in to car technology hence my question.
@@maciejsuchecki7653 Magna Powertrain.
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers Thank you, I was quite close :)
Old torsen is the best
Ok but how does the clutch pack work? Is it only for the rear and the front is permanently connected? Also it’s important how the esc works because if the wheel that spins isn’t slowed down by brakes there will be minimum torque available for the other wheel even if the torque available on the axle is good.
Yes, front permanently connected, rear powered by clutch-pack. All wheels may be slowed down by brakes.
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers A przypadkiem w A4 Allroad tylny napęd nie jest domyślnie spięty a rozłączany gdy jest niepotrzebny ?
@@Heviq Zgadza się, ale (w uproszczeniu) napęd do osi tylnej odprowadzony jest od osi przedniej.
Quattro ultra is the result of eu regulations. Thumbs up for the good old torsen.
Actually this system was on the market a few years before Audi took it for use. But yes, there's eu behind that.
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers Good to know 👍
Поставьте туда audi 100 44))) Quattro
If we only find it..
Zaskakujący wynik... Nie spodziewałem się
Z której strony zaskakujący? :)
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers myślałem że przy przy 3 rolkach i jednym kole z tyłu A5 zostanie
@@patryksojka2857 Przy tych testach rolkowych nie ma znaczenia, czy to torsen, czy haldex. Tu decyduje jedynie elektronika przyhamowująca koła o najmniejszej przyczepności.
@@Arnie551972 Test - brak przyczepności jednej osi - w przypadku haldexa czy quattro ultra nie ma żadnej ingerencji hamulców. W przypadku torsena to podstawa, więc na wstępie rodzaj napędu ma znaczenie. Pozostałe testy - w przypadku torsena rzeczywiście to elektronika hamujaca koła gra pierwsze skrzypce, hamując układ w pełni mechaniczny. Natomiast w przypadku haldexa czy quattro ultra to elektronika decyduje o tym, jak mocno napedzać drugą oś i jak mocno ją jednocześnie hamować. Komputer musi ogarniać obydwie rzeczy (sprzęgło napędu i hamulce).
@@patryksojka2857 Czemu miałby zostać? 🙂
Mechanical vs electronics
CH Janki ?
Zgadza się.
I LOVE TORSEN
Why did this car with the torsen center diff work “better” then the other older Audi’s with torsen center diffs? Older cars were not able to get off the rollers when either both front or backs were on the rollers.
It is all up to electronics which brake individual wheels. On newer models it works better.
Quattro ultra easy dirft when wet put in sport mode, feel strange, i tried few times.
let's see it
Torsen 👍
Does the rs models have torsen or ultra?
Torsen (& crown gear in some older ones).
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers thanks!
@@area51alien29 I forgot about RS3 - it has haldex.
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers but rs5,6,7 have torsen right?
@@area51alien29 Right.
Only torsen, no electronics
С четырех сможет?
when did the B9s switch to ultra ? Because I own an A4 B9 Allroad from April 2017, 2.0 TDI manual, I’m from Belgium but I don’t know if I have a Torsen or an ultra (haldex)…
That was a process, started in 2016. Your version is ultra.
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers oh…..i thought that Up to August 2017 it was torsen and since September 2017 it was quattro ultra. Mine is from April 2017…
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers when I asked to Audi if a had to do the change of the haldex oil every 60.000km they said no
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers It’s so difficult to know what we have in our car…
@@jeremyhoslet94 Up to August 2017 it was for A5. Tech specs of your car say ultra. Ultra is not haldex, it's different unit.
👍
Бред, так нельзя сравнивать! 1. Машины разной массы. 2. На машинах разная резина как по ширине так и по высоте. 3. диаметр самого колеса тоже разный. 4. на какой машине какая коробка передач. А в целом как показывает практика торсен и ультра простые тесты проходят одинаково. Ультра лучше в нестандартных условиях проявляет себя. Но торсен более прогнозируем с точки зрения управления.
This video is not about the results but about identifying the system. Besides other factors are always different cause cars are different. That's the point of comparison.
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers все так) если это только для визуального эффекта, чтобы наглядно показать, что ультра быстрее срабатывает чем торсен и как отрабатывают системы. А в целом, для понимания работы системы видео качественное. 👍
@@olegblinov2629It's not even to show which is faster, the point is to show which is which 👍 That's how viewers know if there is ultra or torsen.
Жалко что ауди уходит от классического полного привода quattro и взамен ставит дешевую и капризную муфту халдекс(quattro ultra)
Quattro Ultra is not haldex, that's different clutch-pack.
I have a Touareg with old Torsen
What production year?
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers 2015， 4motionx
@@nyanpasschen483 If you mean just 4Motion then it uses torsen. If you mean 4Xmotion then it doesn't have torsen but planetary gear center differential combined with an electronically controlled multi-plate clutch pack as the limited slip mechanism.
I would love to see the newer 4M Q7 55 vs the older Q7 3.0T
The only Q7 we have is this one: th-cam.com/video/4AVmrxuvkvM/w-d-xo.html
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers thanks for sharing. I’m curious to see how the newer one like a 2021 Q7 would do.
@@Rosas18745 If we only find - we'll test it 👍
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers If possible ’d volunteer mine. Another cool one would be Audi B5 S4 vs old school Subaru.
@@Rosas18745 Come to Poland 🇵🇱 for a test 🙂 A4 B5 and old Subarus are on our channel 🙂
It is all about software...
In case of torsen - mechanics first.
Torsen Power
The Ultra its a torsen too....
@@henrickhansel Ultra has NOTHING in common with torsen.
W zasadzie to nie TorSen a dyferencjał z przekładnią koronową montowany w audi od 2010
Koronowy był stosowany tylko w kilku modelach, obecnie już nie jest stosowany.
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers Międzyosiowy (centralny) samoblokujący mechanizm różnicowy z asymetrycznym i zmiennym podziałem momentu obrotowego czyli najbardziej istotny element napędu na wszystkie koła w Audi. Dzięki temu elementowi można mówić, że quattro w Audi cały czas jest stałym i mechanicznym napędem.
Potocznie cały czas mówi się, że jest to TorSen przy czym jest to już inna konstrukcja która wywodzi się właśnie z TorSen. Co do istoty to nic się nie zmienia, tj. cały czas mechanizm sam się blokuje, cały czas jest mechaniczny i działa błyskawiczne w zależności od różnic w obrotach po obu jego stronach. Podstawowy podział momentu obrotowego pomiędzy przednią a tylną osią wynosi 40:60. Możliwe jest przekazanie do 70 proc. momentu na przednią oś lub do 85 proc. na tylną, bez ingerencji ESP.
@@fork04 Zajrzyj sobie na stronę Audi, znajdziesz tam zarówno dyfer koronowy, jak i samoblokujący mechanizm różnicowy. Nie są nawet podobne do siebie, to zupełnie różne konstrukcje. Self locking center differential, bo tak nazywa go Audi, to nic innego jak torsen C. Jeśli nadal masz wątpliwości, to wejdź na stronę producenta, czyli JTEKT i znajdziesz tam ten dyfer, oczywiście pod nazwą torsen C. A precyzując jeszcze bardziej - self locking center differential to torsen C(SM), czyli lżejsza wersja torsena C, która to właśnie zastąpiła koronowy.
Edit: odnośnie blokowania - torsen "blokuje" się tylko do poziomu swojego TBR i nie zależy to od różnic prędkości osi. Koronowy natomiast reaguje na te różnice.
@@4x4.tests.on.rollers The new A4, A5, A6, A7, Q5 and RS5 coupe from Audi are equipped with the next generation of the quattro permanent all-wheel drive system, featuring the crown-gear center differential and torque vectoring. Inside the new center differential are two rotating crown gears that owe their name to the crown-like arrangement of their teeth. The front crown gear drives the output shaft to the front differential, the rear crown gear drives the propshaft to the rear differential. to z art z 2011 i tyczy się pewnie modeli 1-2 wstecz, ja akurat mam a4 b8 i a5 b8 oba z koroną a6 c7 i podobne tez pewnie miały to rozwiązanie, z tego co piszesz to wrócili do torsena C w następnych generacjach np. a4 b9? EDIT: tylko czemu mieli by rezygnować z potencjalnie lepszego rozwiązania(crown gear) na korzyść torsena C w kolejnych generacjach?
@@fork04 Tak jak pisałem - koronowy pojawił się tylko chwilowo, w kilku modelach. Podaj mi dokładnie, jakie masz wersje I roczniki, to sprawdzę, jaki tam jest dyfer, ale na 99% nie koronowy. Crown gear nie był lepszym rozwiązaniem, co prawda ważył 2 kg mniej niż torsen C, ale więcej niż torsen CSM.
Quatro its torsen