I love how at the end, they ask "Any questions?" and then when there's none and he realizes he's got some extra time, he's like, "Ok, well here's another point I saved for the end in case there were no questions." In that light, I wouldn't be surprised if he threw in that "morality" bit as a joke.
technically its totally ethical, its just morally bankrupt. I don't know why people place such emphasis on ethics when morals should clearly be our foundations of behavior, not business ethics. Ethics are flimsy and can change with the shifting of the wind.
when I was in college for media entertainment (yes it was a joke) I remember hearing the people in the video game classes talking about "whales" this shit is being taught to inspiring game devs now
Comrade Seanski Yeh sad but true, most people thinking they want to get into programming etc are pretty deluded because the reality is they teach how to make mobile games not actual games.
Fate/Grand Order players send their regard. We always warn newcomers with one sentence. "That's the hell you are walking into." One tip he missed to point out. Anime waifu sells.
I think this is inevitable unless a strong strike back. I say this because there will always be gullible ppl who want petty satisfaction. I think what will happen is the creation of new niche for actual "good" games as the distinction between the plebs and woke starts to become stronger. The woke will realize the problems and move onto the "good" games, by doing this creating the new niche. But the plebs will always exist, especially now with how easy it is for someone new to get into gaming.
I don't know about you guys but Jim can complain all he wants. We can complain all we want. This is just cynical capitalism at its best and in capitalism immoral is not illegal and therefore profitable. This is the "free and rich" society we live in. Hoping for better is idealistic. It could work out but don't ideals rarely win the battle with reality. I'm liking this vid because when you strip it down, it's pretty good business advice.
My lifetime feels like a front row seat to the travesties that my grandparents warned me about and what their generation hoped to never have occur again. Our society won't go out with a bang, but with a wimper.
@@Berserker793 We live in a pretend society where fakeness is worshipped. We live in a pretend society that's backstabbing individuals on global scale. We live in AdLandia, AllGoodLandia. This is how scam & spy business works: wiki/Narrative wiki/Censorship wiki/Fiat_money wiki/Non-disclosure_agreement wiki/Regulatory_capture wiki/Divide_and_conquer wiki/Time-based_currency wiki/Planned_obsolescence wiki/Attention_economy wiki/Behavioral_economics wiki/Social_engineering_(security) wiki/Surveillance wiki/Big_data wiki/Goldilocks_principle wiki/Minimum_viable_product wiki/Return_on_investment wiki/NYSE wiki/tencent wiki/Loot_box Welcome to AdLandia, AllGoodLandia! Where: you have no voice, you have no choice, you have no space, you have no escape, you have no respect. Where history gets deleted, and future censored. ----- Everything is happening in plain sight.
Just the mainstream industry. Amazing games like Dark souls and Enter the gungeon and Stardew valley are amazing games and many of these are still coming out!
A crafty one - Item A costs 600 gems. You can buy packs of gems in 500, 1000, 2000, 5000 crates. I want it! I can't buy the cheapest crate though, I'd have to buy two of them. Hmm, better buy the 1000 crate it's cheaper than buying two 500's AND I'm not spending as much as the 2000 crate! Now I've bought the item. Oh no! I have an odd 400 gems left but nothing to spend them on, the cheapest is 600 ... maybe I'll top up with the 500 crate (total - 1500 gems purchased).
Quick question, what is the page in the Prince where this is noted? I don't remember where this quote stands, and would like to read the context of the quote. And, dear Reader, if you know the page, please share it.
This is why I continually say that we need to teach all different sorts of psychology in school. Children need to be taught when they are being taken advantage of.
Gambling addiction is way more dangerous and expensive than drugs or alcohol. For example if your loved one is taking something in then you can see it. But a person can gamble away all the family's savings and house while watching tv on a sofa. Usually gambling addicts dont understand that they are addicts, they say that they are just "players". Gaming industry nowdays is the same as gambling or online sports betting - there are people whose only job purpose is to get normal people addicted to gambling
This is the black book, the dark arts. This is the scourge that will destroy gaming as a medium, replaced with skinner boxes that exploit physiological flaws to leach your wallet.
Hanz Hanz Addiction is a weakness, but there’s no ON/OFF switch for addiction. You haven’t dealt with addiction if you think it’s that easy, you cheeky little cretin!
@@hanzhanz6797 it's not about being weak. It's about being vulnerable. Everybody is vulnerable to addiction. Go study something and then come back to say sorry for being such an idiot.
Keep in mind guys that this tactics are not only used in gaming but with all social network and apps that monetize our attention. The situation is way worse than most of us realize.
Yeah but you don't go broke from the ads they show you on social media. I agree though, this falls under online addiction and isn't that much better either.
@@MoonShadeStuffwe don't go broke but we are always distracted by interferences coming from our devices. This stuff distracts our minds and cripples our ability to focus deeply on one thing at a time, which is the only way to do great things for us and for humanity in my opinion
@@MoonShadeStuff I you go broke because of a mobile game then you are simply a moron and the only one to blame. These tactics are disgusting but they should have the right to use them. One just can't blame others for their lack of self-control.
@@Peter-rt3fl No, but I can certainly blame you for intentionally designing your products to prey on and squeeze every drop from those individuals who have no self control. I guess it's totally fine to a proverbial gun in someones hand and blame *the victim* when they pull the trigger. "I mean, I just gave him the gun. Its not my fault he was suicidal. I mean, I KNEW and intentionally chose to give it to him, but he CHOSE to do it"
Important in all the wrong ways! It's a twenty-minute list of proverbial leopards hiding in the bushes to keep an eye out for when playing free-to-play games.
At least this Torulf person is honest. Like, I can respect the fact that he admits to the immorality, unlike that woman who spoke for EA at the UK hearing thing. Compared to her, this guy is a god damn saint. Being able to talk about ruining the games industry through predatory monetization is one thing, but being able to lie through your teeth about how many lives and families have fallen apart because of your abusive use of power as a "trusted" triple a games company, honestly devalues your role in humanity to me.
@@Dieaconus True, won't deny that. Dosn't make him mutch better though. Yeah, he admits it is moraly wrong. He holds a pressentation on it. He knows this stuff. Executed thise steps he mentions. He admits it's moraly wrong, he isn't any less of a money grabber.
@@Dieaconus He's honest just because he's totally mad. He don't really need your money, he just wants to exploit weaknesses of whales and then brag about it with the other people like him. He's a total sociopath.
I find this fascinating in the same way one might find medieval torture techniques fascinating... Awesome in concept, horrible and morally outrageous in practice.
rRrecursive Rabbit you’re not wrong. This is 100% unethical and disgusting, but the consumers have also allowed it to happen. We could put EA out of business by the end of the year if we actually wanted to. I hate that it’s becoming a legal issue of “government needs to babysit our horrible impulse control because companies are taking advantage of it”
rRrecursive Rabbit I think you’re right for the most part, but there are a few things about games that make it unique in some ways. First, it’s by far the most unregulated industry that deals in large part with children, and secondly, many of the practices require going directly against what game’s are, at their core, supposed to do. Making it less fun, and less skill based, just to dangle a carrot in front of the consumer is unethical, sure. But it also goes against everything that people look for in games. One would think this would result in people not wanting to buy into it, but they have mastered the art of catering to the consumerist bots, enough so that intentionally making a game frustrating, boring, and non-skill based is actually their most profitable venture right now.
"Avoid it being too skill base" "Grinding and paying should be legitimate way to play the game" It's like I'm hearing the worst thing you could possibly do to your game
Well, when the whole industry does it, the standard becomes grinding and not skill. The last 7 years we made huge steps back in skill and huge steps foreward in grind. One day there is no game with skill but only games you have to pay every minute you want to play it. Blessed be the shareholders. I hope we will do something against it...
TGX Game Reviews send the video to Senator Hawley and other government figures (parliament, Australians, etc). If Senator Hawley can play this in front of the senate it could help push his bill
I am 100% in support of these guys. You should be able to manipulate people however you see fit to get money. The same psychological techniques discussed in this video are used in casinos, stores, and targeted advertisements. It's the way the world works.
I played a freemium mobile game for a little over 3 years. Not once in that time did I spend money on it. But instead of spending money, I have spent my time. A lot of it. I wasted 3 years of my life for something that never gave a return. Instead of changing my life for the better I was preoccupied with sitting inside a game and forgetting about the grim daily reality. If you spend money then you skip the grind. If you don't spend money then you spend time. You never win.
This only means your game was bad. Back in golen age of gaming, I played WoW, Lineage 2, Archeage...on mobile I played Girls Frontline, Azur Lane. Donated in every of them but very little like for things like premium subscription but thats all. I have very fond memories every PC MMO I played and do not regret even a moment of playing them. Met a lot of wonderful people as well. Mobile ones are mixed feeling in terms of emotion but still I won't call them "waste of time". I also got lot of fun from them especially from PvP in Azur Lane. Unfrotunately they don't make games like these anymore. And those I mentioned are very old right now, & have been degraded by updates to a very sorry state.
Things that stand out to me: - "Put morality aside for a bit" - Games make more money than oil. - Making games unpleasant and then having people pay to fix it is orders of magnitude more lucrative than cosmetics.
#3 is what got me to stop even trying freemium games. There are too many amazing games on sale and classic games to emulate to bother with freemium nonsense. Vampire Survivors is a perfect example of a dopamine machine that can give you the same hit as a mobile game without being taken advantage of.
I stopped spending money on Hearthstone as soon as I realized that it costs in excess of $4000 to get all the content in the game... disgusting if you think about it
Yeah I asked myself what the dust 4 a legendary card would actually be worth 2 me, and came 2 the conclusion that I'd be cool with 5 bucks. If you compare that with the actual cost of getting the resources 2 get one of those, you start 2 feel really scammed^^
Come play Star Wars galaxy of heroes. The (former) lead producer of the game said on twitter that they basically expected players to spend 4-5k per year to “keep up”
@@gagagegegigigogogugu Sorry for the confusing wording - I meant potential as in the direction Genshin never went. No gachas, more focus on story and worldbuilding, no microtransactions and grindy, repetitive quests.
ya, that thought just makes the video worse, there's no bottom of the barrel for the gaming industry and this would probably be consider tamed compared to whatever newer form of exploitations we have years later.
Even 2 years ago, when this vid came out, it's nothing new for that time. Was in mobile gaming forever and breaking into AAA definitely before 2 years ago.
@@themanformerlyknownascomme777 oh right, I’ll just remember what I learned from a class I have never taken from a school I never went to. Thank you so much for the help!
South Park literally made a whole episode that basically parodies this exact presentation. its called "Freemium Isn't Free". it goes into surprising depth regarding the psychology of pay2win designs in video (and especially mobile) games. For example, at one point in the episode, the kid named Stan gives up the game after being hooked on it for a while (and after racking up a $26.000 bill) only for his phone to constantly prompt him to come back and play, first the prompts are just like "hey come back guy, we miss you", then eventually it goes "you've just got 5000 canadough (canada coins) for free!" which prompts Stan to go "For free?" and then before he knows it, he is back in the viscous cycle.
This particular technique actually existed for a century with casinos. I met multiple people who get sent plane tickets and hotel rooms for free, just to show up in the casino. It's just a common sense to offer $500 gift when your ROI is 1000%... There's multiple tiers to this. Depending on how much you spent last year, they'll rank up the "Carrot" size (e.g. start with hotel, then add gift cards, then add plane ticket, etc...)
@@saitaroNo, they don't stop because those people are the kind who show up at the casino with a sign "Shut up and take my money!" Example - those friends of mine get several hotel vouchers every 3-4 months even now. Guess what. They redeem them. So,why on earth would a casino stop? It's basically free money... Casino is merely helping all those people who have this terrible issue that they don't have anywhere else to spend their money 😂
Take note, people. You may not like what's being said - I certainly find it revolting myself-, but staring down into the maw of the beast is the only way to know how it wants to eat you.
@The Thunderblade People aren't made equal when it comes to impulse control (cf. tobacco and alcohol use, drug use, spending too much on shopping and yes, gambling). Having a sizable portion of an (or an entire) industry exploit these people's weaknesses is not only immoral but it makes society weaker as a whole as it then needs to take care of its ill or impoverished citizens. Thinking people can just will themselves not to overindulge is a gross misunderstanding of human behavior. While complete prohibition is rarely (if ever?) a suitable prevention, thinking an unregulated market looks out for everyone is just naive as the only parameter the market cares about is profit, and one that's usually not sustainable to boot.
He says he'll talk about ethics at the end _if there's time._ Although, actually, there was time, but he decided to use it to discuss more ways of screwing money out of people.
@@OrenwaldandLoraliah Actually, as somebody who's been to a lot of conferences and sat through a heck of a lot of presentations, my read of the audience is the opposite of yours. The brief applause and total lack of questions says to me that the audience was completely disengaged with what he said. Sure, nobody challenged him, but I didn't see any signficant support, either.
@chirp chip wouldn't go that far. But there have definitely been many instances where there has been really promising research but companies chose to abandon it because it wouldn't be as profitable as the less effective medicine
I genuinely thought this talk was about spreading awareness of maleficent practices in game development. Until 10 minutes in, where I realized this guy is a manager and explains the matter so other people can exploit gamers as well.
"I genuinely thought this talk was about spreading awareness of maleficent practices in game development" kind of is ... now ;P just needs to get go viral 😂
yep, corruption is actually getting so fucked they feel like they can talk about it and get away with it. But because of lobbying basically letting these guys write our laws and their stranglehold on information and media like Mainstream News, they actually fking can get away with it.
I honestly despise monetization in general but his presentation was neat, clear, straight forward, and informative. Now i understand more the mischevious tactics people use to rob someone else's money. Sike
Actually it really was well presented and informative. It's easy to hate the guy for his dedication to this process, but you can't argue that he has a good understanding of the industry and is able to explain it to people who can't analyze it themselves. Take this video with a grain of salt. He is explaining in normal words how the industry screws you. Thank him for wearing his greed on his shoulder so we can see it instead of hiding behind the blanket and pretending it's not intentional. But also go forward in life keeping this in mind, and never pay into these companies again... I have an addictive personality, and I know what has been happening over the years. It's just hard to stop, even if I hate myself for it. Use the hatred to fight the addiction. Hate this man and this process more than you hate yourself. That is how I am doing it now.
Wanna know more how you are being exploited? This is how scam & spy business works: wiki/Narrative wiki/Censorship wiki/Fiat_money wiki/Non-disclosure_agreement wiki/Regulatory_capture wiki/Divide_and_conquer wiki/Time-based_currency wiki/Planned_obsolescence wiki/Attention_economy wiki/Behavioral_economics wiki/Social_engineering_(security) wiki/Surveillance wiki/Big_data wiki/Goldilocks_principle wiki/Minimum_viable_product wiki/Return_on_investment wiki/NYSE wiki/tencent wiki/Loot_box We live in a pretend society where fakeness is worshipped. We live in a pretend society that's backstabbing individuals on global scale. We live in AdLandia, AllGoodLandia. Welcome to AdLandia, AllGoodLandia! Where: you have no voice, you have no choice, you have no space, you have no escape, you have no respect. Where history gets deleted, and future censored. Where is the support when you need it? It doesn't exist. Because it is unnecessary as everything is already "fixed." People here like to suppress uncomfortable truth.
@@brokengames9020 You are absolutely correct. People might look at this and think you are a conspiracy theorist, but I can back this up. I wholeheartedly agree. Also, Tencent, the Chinese gaming company that robs people with copy/paste games, is one of the worst offenders. Play Naruto Online and pay $600-$800 US dollars for a single character in a 4 man squad, where it is sometimes necessary to have multiple different squads. Also, they encourage theft from children by allowing them to buy these things with Subway gift cards. If your kid looks like a coke addict that needs a fix asking for a Subway gift card, they might be hooked on Tencent.
This is the greatest marketing ted talk you could ever learn from. It preys on the worst instincts, but it works. I'm impressed. I still hate the concept, but I respect the logic.
The logic that only cares about Games not as a form of art for people to interact. A trade between Man to Man, instead is One man convincing the other to kill themselves for a cost. Isn't funny that you think you need to become scum to gain people's money Simply making a worthwhile experince is all you need, sadly not guaranteed just makes your game timeliness. It makes it's legacy last.
As an average Joe, you don't stand a chance vs thousands of human behaviour scientists with millions of hours of study and this knowledge exploited by thousands of game developers perfecting it.
@@alexcat6685 for centuries we've worked to streamline the capitalist model. It is no surprise that to succeed with such a model one has to throw away some portion of their morality
Me too. I respect his willingness to share and the understanding of the name of the game in gacha. Everything that was discussed is simple enough to be translated into games by any of the developers in the audience to make money and hook people and their wallets. New Year’s resolution for me. No gacha in 2024. I have deleted everything (Genshin, Honkai Star Rail, Reverse 1999, Diablo Immortal). I’ll have a lot more time in the morning that’s for sure.
This is like watching professional drug dealer teaching drug trafficking to aspired drug dealers. Just replace everytime he says "game" with word "drug".
Well yeah it's pretty much comparable on the ethics side of things, you're benefitting from other people's vulnerabilities against their detriment, and providing no social value in the process. I mean at least casinos give you cheap drinks and food and offer a place to go out at. These mobile spending games are a lot like the tobacco industry, they shouldn't exist because they cause a significant amount of harm and what good, if any, they might provide is negligible. The same goes for social media recently.
@@cortezjolly1604 but you have other factors, like for sure more people would consume smoking or swallowing than injection with needle, big brans my fren
As soon as I heard about it I came straight to here. Hopefully this guy gets arrested for fraud and embezzlement or just tax evasion like Martin Shkreli
And are the actual Bad ones, buisness men aren't these monsters with the only care in the world is your money. In reality they do care about your, because well they need to. Just they do it to give you a better a product, be it they want more money so they make a product you want to buy. Thats not manipulation thats creating something someone wants. The more money they make, the more options they have to invest it in, so usually they go for things people want to. A buisness men is a fellow small buisness owner, using the capatalist system to his advantage by having the freedom to create whatever product he wants too, to fit whatever people consider important now.
@@alexcat6685 however in this case the guy is deliberately describing how he isn't trying to make a quality product and is simply trying to work on predatory monetization strategies and human psychology to trick people into paying money. The goal is to create addiction cycles rather than making a product people actually enjoy.
@@FFgamesftw This is the most profitable way to make money in the gaming industry. This is why I prefer playing older games and single player based titles that don't implement these predatory practices... yet.
This talk sounds like he's begging people to stop paying for crap microtransactions by revealing his whole plan, yet nobody listened and continued to pay for garbage games.
Appalling practices. Excellent presentation. We really should get as many people as possible to watch this video. The more widely known these techniques are the less effective they'll be. I give it thumbs up. Best unintentional in-app-purchase PSA.
Childrens don't give a shit about how the real world is working, they are still childrens after all, and they are usually the main targets of these games.
@@Rattopaz Children in the modern Gen Z have yet to develop a defense barrier: disciplined Tenacity to reject the Desires and lust put into the animu ea wwee and Pokemon Games' skinners' boxes. Investing into mental health for Young teenagers from 13-18, can not refuse the dopamine pump goodies. Some like me still sufferring from the after effects of Grind Gacha addiction, problems with games like Honkai Imapct 3rd and Genshin Impact.when invested deep into the rabbit they are invested in for life.
I'm showing it to my kids, who are just now getting into games that aren't single-player classics. No Roblox addicts in my household, thankyouverymuch.
any questions? yeah, how do you sleep at night? the energy, attitude and passion he talks about basically manipulating people to give money away is amazing... smart guy, zero conscience. truly doesn't see anything wrong with that
@@ajaxmaxbitch well, I do. Generaly 2 things. 1) in terms of games - this takes any intention of making a good game out of game production. Game, in this regard, stops being a source of fun for the player, but becomes just a way to extract money from them for the developers. Similar trend is in movies today - you deconstruct the medium, pin point things which make people spend money and focus on them. The focus shifts from providing people with good product that they will be willing to pay, towards manipulating then into paying. And these are not the same. 2) in general - it's all about manipulating a person, using the weak points of our brain to gain advantage. In this regard there is not much difference between what this guy describes and the 'pick up schools'. In this analogy making a good game and getting paid for it, would be like honestly being interested in another person, hitting it off and hooking up, cause you like each other. And what this guy is explaining is how to manipulate someone insecure into sleeping with you by mechanically doing a certain chain of actions which will give the result with no true feelings or interest in the person.
2 points made me extremely angry: The first, where that guy says to "put morality aside for a bit" The second, where he says that "I made the mistake of making a skill based game".. It's so appalling really.
What's worse is that he didn't even mention morality again, and neither did anybody ask whether it was moral or ethical to trick their customers into overspending.
People always thought it will be the nukes that will kill them. But actually what is killing people is downgrading video games. Welcome homo-billboardus! Wanna know more how you are being exploited? This is how scam & spy business works: wiki/Narrative wiki/Censorship wiki/Fiat_money wiki/Non-disclosure_agreement wiki/Regulatory_capture wiki/Divide_and_conquer wiki/Time-based_currency wiki/Planned_obsolescence wiki/Attention_economy wiki/Behavioral_economics wiki/Social_engineering_(security) wiki/Surveillance wiki/Big_data wiki/Goldilocks_principle wiki/Minimum_viable_product wiki/Return_on_investment wiki/NYSE wiki/tencent wiki/Loot_box We live in a pretend society where fakeness is worshipped. We live in a pretend society that's backstabbing individuals on global scale. We live in AdLandia, AllGoodLandia. Welcome to AdLandia, AllGoodLandia! Where: you have no voice, you have no choice, you have no space, you have no escape, you have no respect. Where history gets deleted, and future censored. Where is the support when you need it? It doesn't exist. Because it is unnecessary as everything is already "fixed." People here like to suppress uncomfortable truth.
I started talking drugs when I was 13, ended up addicted to heroin, living on the streets, I'm not even going to try to describe the amount of death & violence that was in my life almost every day and that feeling of hoping the next hit sends you over so you don't have to wake up again. A while after I got clean I picked up a mobile game, I was lonely (having had to cut off all my friends from before I got clean) and bored (having gone from the 24/7 work of making money to score, scoring, using, then repeating as quickly as possible to having no idea how to pass the time) so I installed a few mobile games. I got into one, it wasn't even all that play to win, it was still fairly heavily skill & dedication based ("grind" I guess) but as soon as these sort of tricks like limited-time reduced price deals popped up my addict brain - which literally has developed from a young age with addiction to dopamine-spikes and a feeling of emptiness or being down without them - went to work and it took me a while to realise I was actually an addict again because it was a game. It was when I was asking people to borrow money for food cos I "hadn't budgeted well this month" again that I thought, dam I'm actually not even clean anymore. Luckily it wasn't that far down the line and I hadn't really screwed my finances & rent up by the time I stopped, but the biggest hit to me was feeling like I was back to square one and was still an addict, not clean, again. That really destroyed my belief in all the progress I'd made. I'm well aware some of you are going to say "just don't do it" but try swapping brains with mine for a day and being biologically conditioned to be weak against these kind of manipulations - if I saw a limited-time package on that game and was sensible & didn't spend the money, it would be ALL I could think about for days, it'd literally keep me up at night. Fortunately I'm one of the people who made it through to the other side. I collect Warhammer now, which is still a lot of money for something, but I feel like I've got tangible things to show for it, I'm always increasing in skill (in painting & playing), I meet people through it and paint with mates and it's far far easier to not overspend on. I'm pretty happy with the queue of models I have to paint and although there's loads more I want to buy, paint and add to my army I know there's only so many models I can paint so I don't want to just build a huge queue & not finish anything. But nowdays people are growing up with more and more of and better and better designed behavioural-psychology and dopamine-feedback loop based systems bombarding them throughout SO much of the day. And I think even if it's not drugs we're still raising generations of kids to have brains like mine that have to be careful about so so many things that other people can have healthy relationships with incase of potentially destroying our life, stability and future. And all for something they don't even enjoy that much but they just can't stop from doing it, so much so they will know they don't have the money for this but will rationalize it to disturbing levels.
Pardon my gut reaction to _Warhammer_ of all things being the safe haven that rescued you from the addicion money hole! XD All seriousness, I think your story is awesome, and inspiring to me. I was a pretty steady addict into Magic the Gathering before the pandemic hit. Only when I couldn't go to my LGS anymore did I realize that I... suddenly had money at the end of each month. I suddenly wasn't pulling from savings to pay my bills. And I hadn't ever even been spending more than a couple hundred bucks on the game every couple months, but... that's hundreds of bucks!! I've since then picked D&D back up from my college days, and it's infinitely better for my mental and financial stability. And it's amazing to me now that I'll really struggle with, "Hmm, is it worth buying this $14 dry erase board for my battle maps?" when just 2 years ago, I'd routinely drop $40 multiple times on multiple sets, multiple times a year, for pieces of cardboard I'd look at maybe once and never touch again. And back then I remember mocking the 40k guys who played at the store, thinking, "Haha, those guys spend so much money on that one hobby," when _I myself_ was no better... in fact I was worse, because I was _arrogantly_ ignorant. This video (and getting to vent the last of my sad prejudice of Warhammer) has allowed me to really learn more about the nature of addiction and our hypocritical prejudices towards it. I'm showing this video to my kids ASAP to help teach them about the seemingly harmless ways you can get totally manipulated and drawn down a path you don't want to go.
@@SomeTH-camTraveler Haha yes I fully hear you on Warhammer being "better" 🤣. Fortunately for me myself it is but I could definitely see people (especially Space Marine players) getting stuck in that addictive loop, compulsive spending & rationalising things that aren't rational. Especially as GW is huge on "exclusive" and "don't miss out!" releases. It says a lot about them as a company that they, intentionally or unintentionally, are utilising behavioural psychology in their business practises. I think if I didn't maintain an attitude grounded in "one project at a time" I could see it all becoming a problem again for me. Since I wrote this comment I've actually started to try to move away from G.W. models & games and into other things that people play at my friendly local game store, just because of Games Workshop's practises. But I'll still always be thankful for Warhammer for getting me out of a feeling of depressive spending, spending I regretted afterwards, and for getting me out & helping me make new friends - once I had that confidence & social life again I was able to go back to work too. You should be proud of yourself too, whether you did it intentionally or not you moved away from that addictive pattern but the most important thing is you maintained it. Once the brain is used to that loop it's so easy to default to it. But you're absolutely right about the ignorance - I think what's so insidious about free to play games, intense social media usage, and all these dopamine-feedback loops that companies try to use today is that... Well let me put it this way: a heroin addict (who doesn't want anything from you) will always tell you they're an addict, you completely know you're addicted and it's ruining your life. With things like free to play games, or MTG in your case, it's really really unlikely you'll be able to recognise it's an addiction or at least that you're displaying addictive tendancies or behaviours. Personally I have to wonder if I hadn't gone through the drug addiction first, would I have noticed and noticed soon enough that I had become addicted to free to a play game and known that it absolutely has to stop immediately? Personally I don't know and I don't think so. Again it scares me that kids growing up with these dopamine-feedback loops all around them that don't have the stigma or the physical "using" of drugs will fall into the trap of addiction and not even realise it's happening to them. I'm really glad that you're going to show this your kids. I'm sure it will help them identify traps before they fall into them & I can only see them benefiting. If telling my story under it was part of that decision then it makes that the most worthwhile comment I've ever made online. Obviously I wouldn't at all want you to talk about things like heroin to them but, if it's appropriate & it's helpful, then please do let them know that there absolutely are real people out there who become addicted to free to play games like these. Personally, myself, I think the solution to this as a society is to start to see mental exercise in the same way as exercising in the gym: every time you're saying no to or delaying that thing you want, every time you stand up to your mind saying "Do it! Do it!", every time you practise concentrating on something for a long time, everytime you're using your willpower, then you are making your mind stronger. It's being shown in research now: things like that the longer you delay a reward makes it more you enjoy & the less you regret it, that willpower can be strengthened in the brain's neurons through practise, that people with addiction-compromised brains will always have to be careful about easy-access dopamine, and the famous "neurons that fire together wire together". Practising self-discipline is like a mental health workout. For me practising non-religious meditation was a huge part of getting myself clean & getting rid of cravings. I still practise it every day - and every time I'm doing it, just trying to concentrate on my breathing and returning to it when my mind wanders, I feel like I'm doing a "mental workout" and making my brain a tiny bit stronger, just like lifting weights does for your muscles. Anyway thanks for the kind words. I'm really glad you're out of that cycle too. It doesn't matter if it's life-destroying or just too much, it's never good and it's always hard to escape. I'm sure you're going to be able to guide and teach your children so they won't make these mistakes themselves. Just knowing these kind of traps exist is the biggest step to avoiding them that there is.
Really happy to hear it went well in the end. I can't fathom being the kind of person to say "you should have just said no". It's a perspective completely devoid of empathy. These practices need to be regulated or otherwise socially and culturally frowned upon. Especially when it's available to and targeting such young people.
Thanks for sharing this! I see how Warhammer figures are a better way of spending money to you! Especially if it connects you with friends and teaches you practical skills! All the best to you!
You should see the techniques that Netflix employs to keep you watching and subbing XD the entire world is manipulation, we're all being sold the kool-aid unfortunately
@@kinghazythethird No problem man. th-cam.com/video/7S-DGTBZU14/w-d-xo.html He talks a bit about it around the 6 min mark and then in parts throughout the video.
A friend told me they had a break down because they missed a daily in a game they've been playing for years, and then blamed their partner for not reminding them (they were both playing it). Thankfully they've gotten over it since/relationship is still intact. Another friend spent many hours a day to grind because of some event in a game. Literally just clicking at plants. This was over multiple days (I think a week?). I had to wait for them to finish before we could go anywhere to do something fun on a couple occasions. That same friend started spending more on gacha games once they got a raise. Still says they're broke. These tactics are despicable, but I appreciate that he laid it out/revealed the psychological aspects. I just don't know what to do about my friends/if I can help.
I don't know if they'll listen to you, but just trying to teach them these tactics could help. Figuring out how people can mislead and manipulate me has been one of the single most important skills in my life, not just for predatory mobile games, but for life in general. From my experience, learning how people dupe others is the first step towards avoiding being duped. That being said, breaking these habits once you've gotten dug-in can be really fucking hard. Especially when sunk cost fallacy comes into play. The: "I've spent $500 on this game already, I can't quit now" line of reasoning. I know this comment was 3 months ago, so whatever's happening, I hope your friends are doing a little better. It saddens me to see games like this hurt so many people.
@@lainhyugatha3762 Thanks! So far, it's gotten a little better. They mainly play to distract themselves from the stresses of work/relationships, so not sure it will be as easy unless we find some other (hopefully productive/no destructive) activit(ies).
Best advice to all of them is that “It’s never a must to pay/commit to that game.” And “take a break if you feel pressured to do something you normally wouldn’t do” I’m currently playing Honkai Star Rail, a turn based gacha game from Hoyoverse. I really love its story and content but as of now, I am pressured by the game to spend and get the character (aka “collectables”) I want. I almost spent roughly 100 bucks, tho ppl in the community reminds me I should never pressured to pay or get certain things in such game. It has its worth and I should never let FOMO control me. I think I will take a good break after such banner is gone. The game is no longer enjoyable as it was before.
Yea show them this video. Knowing that they're being duped, and that there are others like them ( so they don't double-down on it to save face ) should be all they need, to know that they're addicted, and can start weening themselves
Behold the future of video games from the perspective of greedy publishers and developers. It’s very telling how he actually admits that it isn’t being advertised to appeal to a large consumer base. It is advertised to appeal to a fractional percentage of people that will compulsively spend and spend and spend on the illusion of tangible investment. It is the biggest exploitation of a niche market. The niche market that such publishers attempt to convince us, the majority of consumers, is dying. That platformers are niche. That horror is niche. That they are therefore irrelevant... but if you can exploit the weak few for massive gains, suddenly the niche become “whales”, and you get games that appeal to almost nobody, kept afloat by the bottomless well of cash ebbing forth from the hopelessly addicted and manipulated. Bravo you disgusting bastards. You have found a way to alienate the majority of people, and still make overhead.
It isn't even that they're trying to appeal to anyone... those niche players aren't being appealed to, they're being *abused.* Someone else in the comments talked about having an addictive personality and how these tactics impacted them psychologically and how destructive it was to their psyche. Shameful stuff. These corporate ghouls in the gaming industry need to be routed out.
There was a man who had a firefighting business of sorts in ancient Rome, who would demand people sell their property to him, and that their *neighbors* sell their property to him, before he would send his people in to fight a fire. He was executed by molten gold being poured down his throat. I think about this often....
For someone who played those building competetive strategy games, everything this guy says makes sense and is definetly working. The biggest reasons why Whales are paying so much is because they want to be better than the casual, but the moment they want to be better than another whale, the big spending begins.
What you described is how old MMORPG's monetisation worked in the 20xx - 201x years. Now its different. Nowadays most devs consider, just as the guy in the video said, "too dangrous". The most successful mobile games figured out nowadays that instead of having 2 whales fight (loser will be dissapointed & may leave), they will make fake rivals, either of insane AI bots + CM on their chatting or even the whole thing being played by minimum wage/or even literal slaves given access to 100% fake, made from scratch accounts from their office to entertain (but lose to) whales. So the whale will always win as long as he or she pays....that is whats really evil.
That's pretty much what I, as an outside observer, take away from Clash of Clans for example. Like, you'll get assraped in game by some dude who simply spent a fuckton and can't ever out-grind that, because you have to regain the resources you just lost to the spender.
This vid put it into proper perspective when I was getting mad last week that I was CONSIDERING paying $10 to remove ads from a freemium game having it played daily last 4 weeks :) :) :)
That's true only to a point. These tactics are designed to addict and manipulate people. Many, once aware of the tactics, can guard against them, but some are vulnerable to it and will get taken to the cleaners because they just can't stop.
Yes, let's discuss the *morality* of putting $60 """microtransactions""" in games like FIFA that are rated E for everyone and 3 & up. The ethics of exploiting children and kids surely requires lots and lots of discussing. How tf do you sleep at night?
60 dollars game, flushed out every year. Most of those kids will repeat the process every year for practically the same game. It's actually sad to think we let corporations get away with this.
This was actually a really interesting talk, and absolutely worth a watch, even for non-gamers. People may hate what he said, but these are all hard facts about human psychology. Most of the concepts he mentioned are not remotely unique for gaming monetization either, we humans have experienced them on a daily basis through ads and even when you go grocery shopping, and if you have worked in marketing, sales, or just business development in general there is a good chance you have used these tactics.
I'm on it. This is the content which should be preserved just to remind people of the egregious practices of the game industry and how smug these fucking developers are. The sheer nerve they have is absolutely appalling. this would've gotten unnoticed if it wasn't for Jim Sterling but I'm definitely saving this just in case people immediately forget in the near future, how fucking scummy the industry is in general.
it will go down and we should do everything to make people see it. everything that educates them, makes them less suszeptible to said topic. this material is "you dont talk about the fight club" stuff
@@Bulletproof_Trump A lot of shit from the prequels are. They were a bit ahead of their time tbh, you can trash the writing and such or criticize the now aged CGI, but the questions they made you ask are more relevant than ever.
Any game that ever has the first one as a mechanic where you can pay money to skip the wait I put down and never come back to. I personally don't care for customization so I don't buy skins, competitive advantage also is a big "no" for me but most games are smart enough to realize it pisses people off. The only one that I personally fall prey to is DLC
As for DLC, I think paying for additional content in the form of expansion packs if the base game is complete and the content is worthwile isn't a bad thing. Shame that DLC is now used by buissnesmen to restrict content that should have been in the base game and sell it back to the player for more money. Not every DLC is bad but you need to be highly suspicious of games with DLCs.
@@FFgamesftw There's nothing to "fall prey" to. You should WANT more content beyond the game's initial release, the development of which would ideally be funded from the sales of the initial game and in turn would funder further content rich DLC. So long as they aren't gating away content that would normally have been included in the base game, no one loses.
@TryHarderManiac Did you just ignore the part where this guy said that consistently making additional content alone is unsustainable due to how much time, resources and effort it takes compared to the other methods? Pretty big hint that this by far is the least (aka not at all in most cases where it is dropped significantly after a content rich and polished base game is released) exploitative and most substantive method of asking your customers for more of their money than the others. Ah, but why think when you can say things like "CaPiTaLiSm BaD."
I don't get why the like/dislike ratio is in its current state. I think people should appreciate that this sort of content exists, so that we know exactly what to be wary and feared about - some of these I've heard while studying Behavioural Economics at the University.This video right here should have been liked and shared as much as possible so that it gets attention of general audience. Instead, such a valuable piece of information remains mostly unseen for almost 3 years - a shame. By disliking this video you are doing EXACTLY what those money-grabbing Mega-Corporations want: divert attention and blur away the knowledge on the subject as much as possible.
Remember the presenters point about fast thinking against slow thinking? That's an excellent example of it! People are angry about the content of the video and the down-vote button is an immediate outlet for this anger.
You're both right. People have apparently become confused between the documentary aspect of the video and the message of the person being documented. I also think that most people don't understand how TH-cam works and are inadvertently promoting videos that they don't like. My understanding is that the feedback voting buttons are mostly for influencing future content of your own personal recommended feed but as far as the video is concerned, voting either way is considered to be engagement that will raise TH-cam's perception of its value, causing it to be promoted more strongly to others. In other words, disliking a video serves to promote it to other viewers as strongly as liking it, and I believe that commenting is weighted higher than voting.
@@NightWanderer31415 Presumably down voting makes the video look less enticing to the TH-cam algorithms, thus limiting its exposure. That said, the algorithms are a black box and who knows if the video ever would have caught on on its own anyway. I've personally abstained, because I sure as hell don't want to say I "like" it.
@@sigmundfreud4618 there is no need to tag the game "18+" you see the cancer, addiction and many thrown away money because of "cigerates" is legal since it is "surprise mechanic"
This video is both a blessing and a curse. It allows us to understand greedy monetization practices..but it also helps is understand how to milk customers dry of their money and well being..
If you see it that way, in the way of money maker past it's heavy flaws. I don't believe you were a good person to begin with, just as similar to the monsters actually commiting these crimes.
@@alexcat6685 It's a blessing because it helps consumer understand these shitty practices and try to avoid them. It's a curse because it helps greedy buissnesmen who make this shit understand these practices better too.
This is the most depressing video I've seen in a long time. It just blows my mind how this isnt viewed as a straight up scam and made illegal. Especially the gatcha bullshit. It's literally gambling for children AND even if you win. You can never convert that back into real money. It's like winning at the casino but you can't cash your chips in. You can only buy casino merch with your winnings LOL. It sounds so crazy to say but that's literally what's happening...
It's worse than that. These mobile games have short lifespans, and when service ends and the game shuts down permanently, all the fake casino merch you earned just disappears.
Im utterly shocked to see that all the monetization practices that I have loathed and perceived throughout the years, and even practices that I did not at first asociate with monetization are in fact used with so much manipulative, conscious and precise thought into each and every game that incorporates microtransactions. It's absolutely disgusting and watching this conference gives me a very bad feel in my guts to be honest, to know that a medium that used to be mostly about fun has gotten so dark and corrupt. Just disgusting...
Oh, that's economics psychology for you. This is being done everywhere. Not just gaming. You know, they like to put the cheap items in the store down at the bottom of the shelf, so you don't see them immediatly and your eyes first wander over the expensive products. That's also economics psychology. All you can do is study it yourself, so you don't fall victim to it in any circumstance.
"Make sure your games aren't too skill based." And the games that are really based on skills are being attacked by media saying that they are not suitable for every one.
This video is now being used as a prime example of why the games now will face legislation. It's like a list for everything you need to ban in one neat package.
@@magnuscritikaleak5045 he very well may be "figure of speech", obviously he is if what you say is true. I don't doubt you. Still doesn't change the fact he is a textbook sociopath.
It's really interesting to see how this works under the hood. That's way more thought-out than I'd ever expect. Friends don't let friends play freemium games.
It's business and capitalism at its finest, so don't bring morality into it. Do you expect businessmen to play friends, shake hands and sing along? That's childish, that's how you get devoured by bigger companies
Remember the old saying, "do unto others as you would have them do unto you"? Well apparently that philosophy just flew out the window in the modern video game industry. Their philosophy is now "try to extract money from your players through every moment of the gaming experience".
It's fun to watch him say "wall street trader" and "oil sheik" as if he doesn't know that a lot of his whales are people who don't have that kind of money. The majority of whales are the lonely, desperate, or those who have poor impulse control / gambling issues. In some case quite literally the mentally ill. Some spend all their disposable income on the game because they have nothing else to spend their money on (an incredibly lonely and depressed person with no friends for example). Other spend money they NEED, for food and rent because they cannot control their addiction. And some even spend money they don't have (getting loans) on the game. It is life ruining.
I guess that's the biggest reason this video irks me so much. I've never once met a gacha 'whale' that has their life fully put together. They're always someone lonely/depressed, usually suffering from childhood trauma, and use gaming as a way to dissociate and cope with their empty lives, usually in combination with some drug addiction. These people are the most vulnerable to falling into the sinkhole of investing into one of these games, but the companies making them only view them as a dollar sign.
People are criticising Torulf here, but the majority fail to note that on every point he makes, there is a subtle applause, laughter, murmurs of general agreement. The audience are in on it as much as he is!
Christian Firth-godney Well of course, it's a seminar that they had to pay to see. They want his knowledge so they can make their own games to fuck over people.
I think you've misread the audience completely. I didn't hear any applause at all during the talk; just brief "polite" applause afterwards. What you're taking as "laughter [and] murmors of general agreement" I think were actually just a bad audio recording that was massively amplifying the ambient noise in the room whenever was silent. As somebody who's been to a lot of conferences and attended many presentations, what struck me most about the audience was that the applause at the end was very perfunctory, and there were zero questions. If the audience finds the talk interesting, they'll always ask questions. If they were generally positive about it, somebody would almost certainly ask a bland question like "Of all the techniques you mentioned, which do you think is the most important?" Getting no questions at all basically means that your audience isn't interested in what you said.
"Knowing is half the battle". I hope more people see this, because the better you know how this sort of game preys on it's players psychology, the more equipped you are to protect yourself from such exploitation.
its getting them people to watch it and understand it that's the problem, i try and most saying "im not watching that just for it to prove me right" or worse just say it dont happen in payed games lol.
These are the things iam learning as a junior marketer, and seeing you all surprised reminds me of the first time learning these marketing tactics, iam no longer surprised, its how we work.
Correct, as several other not anymore only free 2 play games are doing. Anyway, I am pretty impressed how this guy has the balls to go onto the stage and tell this scheme in this dry and cold way, how the players are only cows to be milked. This video should be mandatory lecture in schools, so the people are learning that the game companies are NOT their friends.
Thankfully I had already seen this video when I tried Genshin out, so I saw all the tricks a few hours in, uninstalled that damn thing and never looked back. The worse thing about all this is that Genshin is a straight-up mobile game ported to modern systems and PC with the exact same approach regardless of platform. That makes everything 10x worse as it's normalizing the practices to an audience that's only used to *some* of these tricks in console games. Soon we'll have 60 dollar... EDIT/CORRECTION, 70 dollar AAA games selling Energy-type items so you are "allowed" to play their endgame content for more than 3 hours a week, and it'll all be Genshin's fault. It's the new horse armor of the AAA gaming industry right now.
I wanted to disagree at first, since you can easily clear everything in the game with free units from events, or even the starting units if you're good. Then I thought about it a little more, and realized, they are actually using most of these methods, but the game is so good and so big, that they can monetize each player according to their proclivities without pushing people out of their feel-good zone. It's beautiful and a little scary.
@@voices0000 When someone brings up the "you can beat it all without paying" arguement, I always get flashbacks of clash of clan's "you can beat it all without paying by playing it everyday for 5 or more years".
I don't even like playing video games anymore, mostly because of how gaming industry adopted techniques shown in this video. I lost all passion for this hobby. All scumbaggery of this aside, this is actually fascinating to watch. In a way, I really respect and admire this piece of shit, the way he did his homework here, how he has all of this figured out. Human brain is a marvelous thing. If he'd put all that effort into something actually good, he could move mountains. Guess he'll move whales.
dude, just play indies or AAs. there's less to no bullshit compared to the AAAs and you'll find some truly fun games still being made like Furi, Hollow Knight, Risk of Rain 2, and Bloodstained.
@@triplehelix3207 we know we have other options, still , I have seen the last 32 years of how gaming and everything around it evolved. its the biggest travesty i ever witnessed. its sad. extremely sad. Im tired of having to check who developed a game just to know what not to play because the pricks who made the game are predatory moneyhungry sociopaths that dont deserve to breathe.
Why is this downvoted so hard? This is a very good and educational talk. If anything this should be upvoted to bring attention to the practices and design choices that go into developing media equivalent of drugs to people.
People are "hurt". "Emotions" and "feelings" and "oh, this is immoral" stuff and they are downvoting because of their emotion, or because they don't agree with the methods which is crazy and one of the reasons why they are able to exploit the masses this man literally pulled back the curtain to show us multiple ways on how gachas are exploiting their playerbase; this is a gold nugget of knowledge!
@@CrazyChillDog probably because the dude literally fucking said he was leaving morality at the door. People are just mad that he is promoting these practices to the crowd, hes not "exposing the industry" to the crowd
@@M_CFV He is a Game Academic (Torulf) from Finland there are Game academics like Ian Bogost and Lars Karznac who says Videogames shouldn't have characters but endless Systems. No kidding go to The Atlantic Post Ian Bogost search for Videogames shouldn't have characters and another he wrote in 2017 Videogames shouldn't have Stories.
@@magnuscritikaleak5045 What's wrong with what Ian Bogost said? I read the beginnings of those articles. It seems like he is criticizing modern games for being too similar and not being creative with gameplay. If anything, he would be horrified by this talk.
"Leave the moralizing for somewhere private" indeed. Scumbag. These people could make all the money and more if they just tried making a decent product once in a while.
If they tried to make a decent product, they would fail so hard haha. A good game is a piece of art and people who make them need to be great artist. These scumbags instead specialize in exploiting people's addictions. That's an entirely different skill and priority set. Just listen to Matt Thorson's GDC speech about his Celeste and then to this asshole. The difference become blatantly obvious.
actually, those scheme earn more money than any video game, sadly the mobile market is very massive. Why is why nintendo is now going that way with their new mobile app dr mario, which is nothing but a predatory candy crush clone.
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You know it's gonna be ethical when he starts off by saying "we can talk about the morality of this at the end, if there's time"
I love how at the end, they ask "Any questions?" and then when there's none and he realizes he's got some extra time, he's like, "Ok, well here's another point I saved for the end in case there were no questions."
In that light, I wouldn't be surprised if he threw in that "morality" bit as a joke.
that's the polite way of telling that we are not talking about this
@@Grubiantoll More like political, in the deceptive filibuster kind of way.
Did you notice how there wasnt any time at the end to speak of the morality? Interesting... ;)
technically its totally ethical, its just morally bankrupt.
I don't know why people place such emphasis on ethics when morals should clearly be our foundations of behavior, not business ethics. Ethics are flimsy and can change with the shifting of the wind.
when I was in college for media entertainment (yes it was a joke) I remember hearing the people in the video game classes talking about "whales" this shit is being taught to inspiring game devs now
Comrade Seanski Yeh sad but true, most people thinking they want to get into programming etc are pretty deluded because the reality is they teach how to make mobile games not actual games.
aspiring*
@@sleekotter1109 Maybe they're breathing in, as well as hoping.
literally a guide on how to make predatory microtransactions
This video should be called "Let's go whaling: Tricks for exploiting mobile game players with shitty psychological manipulation"
the sad shutty reality of modern games .. so much manipulation
Fate/Grand Order players send their regard. We always warn newcomers with one sentence.
"That's the hell you are walking into."
One tip he missed to point out. Anime waifu sells.
Don't forget the swimsuits.
This video is making me nauseous
"Make sure your games aren't too skill based." I'm witnessing the destruction of the video-game industry.
I think this is inevitable unless a strong strike back. I say this because there will always be gullible ppl who want petty satisfaction. I think what will happen is the creation of new niche for actual "good" games as the distinction between the plebs and woke starts to become stronger. The woke will realize the problems and move onto the "good" games, by doing this creating the new niche. But the plebs will always exist, especially now with how easy it is for someone new to get into gaming.
I don't know about you guys but Jim can complain all he wants. We can complain all we want. This is just cynical capitalism at its best and in capitalism immoral is not illegal and therefore profitable. This is the "free and rich" society we live in. Hoping for better is idealistic. It could work out but don't ideals rarely win the battle with reality.
I'm liking this vid because when you strip it down, it's pretty good business advice.
My lifetime feels like a front row seat to the travesties that my grandparents warned me about and what their generation hoped to never have occur again.
Our society won't go out with a bang, but with a wimper.
@@Berserker793 We live in a pretend society where fakeness is worshipped.
We live in a pretend society that's backstabbing individuals on global scale.
We live in AdLandia, AllGoodLandia.
This is how scam & spy business works:
wiki/Narrative
wiki/Censorship
wiki/Fiat_money
wiki/Non-disclosure_agreement
wiki/Regulatory_capture
wiki/Divide_and_conquer
wiki/Time-based_currency
wiki/Planned_obsolescence
wiki/Attention_economy
wiki/Behavioral_economics
wiki/Social_engineering_(security)
wiki/Surveillance
wiki/Big_data
wiki/Goldilocks_principle
wiki/Minimum_viable_product
wiki/Return_on_investment
wiki/NYSE
wiki/tencent
wiki/Loot_box
Welcome to AdLandia, AllGoodLandia!
Where:
you have no voice,
you have no choice,
you have no space,
you have no escape,
you have no respect.
Where history gets deleted,
and future censored.
-----
Everything is happening in plain sight.
Just the mainstream industry. Amazing games like Dark souls and Enter the gungeon and Stardew valley are amazing games and many of these are still coming out!
This video is 7 years old now and dont even want to think about what tatics they use now
They're largely the same, only they cast a wider net with fake ads to get more people to initially try the game.
A crafty one -
Item A costs 600 gems.
You can buy packs of gems in 500, 1000, 2000, 5000 crates.
I want it! I can't buy the cheapest crate though, I'd have to buy two of them.
Hmm, better buy the 1000 crate it's cheaper than buying two 500's AND I'm not spending as much as the 2000 crate!
Now I've bought the item.
Oh no! I have an odd 400 gems left but nothing to spend them on, the cheapest is 600 ... maybe I'll top up with the 500 crate (total - 1500 gems purchased).
@@LeeONardo Gotta love Clash of Clans lol.
That, and they optimize manipulation and their employment of psychological warfare.@@japes789
Human brains are still the same and so are the tactics
"Learn the way to hell in order to flee from it." - Niccolo Machiavelli
Quick question, what is the page in the Prince where this is noted?
I don't remember where this quote stands, and would like to read the context of the quote.
And, dear Reader, if you know the page, please share it.
@@w.kuiper316 read somewhere that it's from a letter to a friend of his before he died. Had a really hard time finding it :(
V Franz Thank you for taking the time though
If that's a hindsight, post case/mortem note. Then damn, that's one hell of a high note to take due caution over.
@@w.kuiper316 …you do realize a guy can have written more than just one book in his entire life, right, Dear Commenter?
This is why I continually say that we need to teach all different sorts of psychology in school. Children need to be taught when they are being taken advantage of.
The blood sucking Education system already made most students into submissive.
@@magnuscritikaleak5045 eh, true
There needs to be a modern living class in schools for sure. Teach them financial literacy psychological exploitation etc.
@@Spright91 nice barrel
...that wouldn't work. They'd just forget most of it, like the forget most of everything else they're taught in school.
This video should be shown in schools when they talk about addiction. It's not always drugs.
Gambling addiction is way more dangerous and expensive than drugs or alcohol. For example if your loved one is taking something in then you can see it. But a person can gamble away all the family's savings and house while watching tv on a sofa. Usually gambling addicts dont understand that they are addicts, they say that they are just "players".
Gaming industry nowdays is the same as gambling or online sports betting - there are people whose only job purpose is to get normal people addicted to gambling
This is the black book, the dark arts. This is the scourge that will destroy gaming as a medium, replaced with skinner boxes that exploit physiological flaws to leach your wallet.
Bookmarking this video in case I need help quitting my Love Nikki addiction...
if you are so weak and pay bucks for shitload games like this.
How can this be legal?
Hanz Hanz
Addiction is a weakness, but there’s no ON/OFF switch for addiction. You haven’t dealt with addiction if you think it’s that easy, you cheeky little cretin!
@@hanzhanz6797 it's not about being weak. It's about being vulnerable. Everybody is vulnerable to addiction. Go study something and then come back to say sorry for being such an idiot.
Keep in mind guys that this tactics are not only used in gaming but with all social network and apps that monetize our attention. The situation is way worse than most of us realize.
Yeah but you don't go broke from the ads they show you on social media. I agree though, this falls under online addiction and isn't that much better either.
@@MoonShadeStuffwe don't go broke but we are always distracted by interferences coming from our devices. This stuff distracts our minds and cripples our ability to focus deeply on one thing at a time, which is the only way to do great things for us and for humanity in my opinion
@@MoonShadeStuff I you go broke because of a mobile game then you are simply a moron and the only one to blame.
These tactics are disgusting but they should have the right to use them. One just can't blame others for their lack of self-control.
@@Peter-rt3fl No, but I can certainly blame you for intentionally designing your products to prey on and squeeze every drop from those individuals who have no self control. I guess it's totally fine to a proverbial gun in someones hand and blame *the victim* when they pull the trigger. "I mean, I just gave him the gun. Its not my fault he was suicidal. I mean, I KNEW and intentionally chose to give it to him, but he CHOSE to do it"
@@jef1200 Yeah sure. Everyone who disagrees with you must be a troll right? You sound so smart.
Unironically one of the most important speeches for the videogame industry of all time.
It's leaking into Tekken 8 with Tekken shop
@@hurricane7727 Depressing, Tekken was a game i used to play religiously
@@rayyf69 Tekken 7 and 8 also don't have a Chang in the Base Roster
Important in all the wrong ways!
It's a twenty-minute list of proverbial leopards hiding in the bushes to keep an eye out for when playing free-to-play games.
Agreed 👍
Y'all are focusing your attention on this one guy. EA has an ENTIRE DEPARTMENT filled with these types of people.
Where do you think they learned this stuff from? Video is a few years old.
At least this Torulf person is honest. Like, I can respect the fact that he admits to the immorality, unlike that woman who spoke for EA at the UK hearing thing. Compared to her, this guy is a god damn saint. Being able to talk about ruining the games industry through predatory monetization is one thing, but being able to lie through your teeth about how many lives and families have fallen apart because of your abusive use of power as a "trusted" triple a games company, honestly devalues your role in humanity to me.
@@Dieaconus True, won't deny that. Dosn't make him mutch better though. Yeah, he admits it is moraly wrong. He holds a pressentation on it. He knows this stuff. Executed thise steps he mentions. He admits it's moraly wrong, he isn't any less of a money grabber.
@@Dieaconus fucking
PREACH
@@Dieaconus He's honest just because he's totally mad. He don't really need your money, he just wants to exploit weaknesses of whales and then brag about it with the other people like him. He's a total sociopath.
I find this fascinating in the same way one might find medieval torture techniques fascinating... Awesome in concept, horrible and morally outrageous in practice.
That is actually the perfect analogue.
Nosferatu Zodd mate shut the fuck up. Why are you even here?
Nosferatu Zodd yet another “analogy = 1 to 1 comparison” idiot.
rRrecursive Rabbit you’re not wrong. This is 100% unethical and disgusting, but the consumers have also allowed it to happen. We could put EA out of business by the end of the year if we actually wanted to. I hate that it’s becoming a legal issue of “government needs to babysit our horrible impulse control because companies are taking advantage of it”
rRrecursive Rabbit I think you’re right for the most part, but there are a few things about games that make it unique in some ways. First, it’s by far the most unregulated industry that deals in large part with children, and secondly, many of the practices require going directly against what game’s are, at their core, supposed to do. Making it less fun, and less skill based, just to dangle a carrot in front of the consumer is unethical, sure. But it also goes against everything that people look for in games. One would think this would result in people not wanting to buy into it, but they have mastered the art of catering to the consumerist bots, enough so that intentionally making a game frustrating, boring, and non-skill based is actually their most profitable venture right now.
"Avoid it being too skill base"
"Grinding and paying should be legitimate way to play the game"
It's like I'm hearing the worst thing you could possibly do to your game
yup
worst for the player, best for the company
It's like most jobs!
You are already a loser if you are spending time to play this game.
Well, when the whole industry does it, the standard becomes grinding and not skill. The last 7 years we made huge steps back in skill and huge steps foreward in grind. One day there is no game with skill but only games you have to pay every minute you want to play it. Blessed be the shareholders. I hope we will do something against it...
This is a fascinating dark lesson on manipulating, anti-consumer practices. Save this video for historical reasons and consumer education.
Scary thing is that its legal.
It's really sound from the psychological perspective as well.
Reminds me strongly of dark patterns. Those get used in these kinds of mobile games all the time too.
@@randomstuff-qu7sh this IS capitalism
@@themanformerlyknownascomme777 oh so are you an anarchist then.
It's not sociopathy, it's surprise morality.
*immorality
I am not laughing, i surprizing "Lost my MOA". :-D :-D
well from the video we apparently "put morality to the side"
Imagine thinking IG transactions are killing gaming lmao
Lol come on this is exactly how marketing discussions work in companies, not just in video games.
The real problem is that a lot of whales are not the wealthy people, but the addicted people who spend everything they have.
in other worse they are no better than crack dealers.
Tell me, how does their money spend compared to the whales? Exactly the same, my friend.
And people with disabilities and young
source?
@@Justuas source = “ trust me bro “ lmao
"Put morality aside for a bit, we can discuss it later", yeah... sure. Because the game industry is really going to discuss morality
They have discussed morality. In front of UK Parliament. And they are delusional thinking it is perfectly moral.
EVERYBODY should consider morality AT ALL TIMES. Thats what keeps you from being an asshole.
well, yeah, the morality of their neck-beard neo-nazi customers who dared to not enjoy their product.
@@dimas3829 The fuck's your problem?
My partner's university (they study computer science) made an ethics class compulsory.
**How to destroy the videogame industry through greed and immorality in 20 minutes or less**
TGX Game Reviews send the video to Senator Hawley and other government figures (parliament, Australians, etc). If Senator Hawley can play this in front of the senate it could help push his bill
How to destroy any industry*
*get Atari Flashbacks*
@Vayne Carudas Solidor wait... what?
This guy is not greedy, he's a total sociopath.
I am 100% in support of these guys. You should be able to manipulate people however you see fit to get money. The same psychological techniques discussed in this video are used in casinos, stores, and targeted advertisements. It's the way the world works.
I played a freemium mobile game for a little over 3 years. Not once in that time did I spend money on it. But instead of spending money, I have spent my time. A lot of it. I wasted 3 years of my life for something that never gave a return. Instead of changing my life for the better I was preoccupied with sitting inside a game and forgetting about the grim daily reality.
If you spend money then you skip the grind. If you don't spend money then you spend time. You never win.
So true!
Not playing is also an option.
@@Muttley7125 This is true, but I strictly talked in the context of engaging with the game.
Me: *nodding as I continue to play a similar game on my phone*
This only means your game was bad. Back in golen age of gaming, I played WoW, Lineage 2, Archeage...on mobile I played Girls Frontline, Azur Lane. Donated in every of them but very little like for things like premium subscription but thats all. I have very fond memories every PC MMO I played and do not regret even a moment of playing them. Met a lot of wonderful people as well. Mobile ones are mixed feeling in terms of emotion but still I won't call them "waste of time". I also got lot of fun from them especially from PvP in Azur Lane. Unfrotunately they don't make games like these anymore. And those I mentioned are very old right now, & have been degraded by updates to a very sorry state.
Things that stand out to me:
- "Put morality aside for a bit"
- Games make more money than oil.
- Making games unpleasant and then having people pay to fix it is orders of magnitude more lucrative than cosmetics.
- Don't make games too skillbased
#3 is what got me to stop even trying freemium games. There are too many amazing games on sale and classic games to emulate to bother with freemium nonsense. Vampire Survivors is a perfect example of a dopamine machine that can give you the same hit as a mobile game without being taken advantage of.
"You know Ikea really sells you cardboard stuff, it's shit"
The most infuriating part about this video isn't the bollocks he's talking but the CONSTANT FUCKING TONGUE SMACKING 😫
I stopped spending money on Hearthstone as soon as I realized that it costs in excess of $4000 to get all the content in the game... disgusting if you think about it
Yeah I asked myself what the dust 4 a legendary card would actually be worth 2 me, and came 2 the conclusion that I'd be cool with 5 bucks. If you compare that with the actual cost of getting the resources 2 get one of those, you start 2 feel really scammed^^
Come play Star Wars galaxy of heroes. The (former) lead producer of the game said on twitter that they basically expected players to spend 4-5k per year to “keep up”
Clash royale is a perfect example of a great strategic skill based mobile game. You don't need to pay a single cent to get all content
Didnt expect to see you here, Donghoon
Sadly for a trading card game, that's actually cheap. Some of the rarest decks can cost tens or even hundreds of thousands.
Abandoning Genshin Impact was the best decision of my life
same 2 years ago
but mommy eula
Had a lot of potential... shame it went the direction it did.
@@ctrl_x1770 I don't think Genshin's changed much since launch. Whatever was good or bad about it then is probably what's good or bad about it now.
@@gagagegegigigogogugu Sorry for the confusing wording - I meant potential as in the direction Genshin never went. No gachas, more focus on story and worldbuilding, no microtransactions and grindy, repetitive quests.
Guys this video is almost 3 years old, which means they've likely developed and iterated newer forms of exploitation by now
ya, that thought just makes the video worse, there's no bottom of the barrel for the gaming industry and this would probably be consider tamed compared to whatever newer form of exploitations we have years later.
like.. "surprise mechanics"? :)
These practices have been polished since at least 2010. Evil doesn't need to change when no one cares.
Even 2 years ago, when this vid came out, it's nothing new for that time. Was in mobile gaming forever and breaking into AAA definitely before 2 years ago.
Matchmaking will match you with someone who has expensive skins for example
Very distasteful practices, but thank you for the upload its very insightful, it is good to know how your enemies operate.
word.
Except you would be able to gain this same information from a high school business class.
@@themanformerlyknownascomme777 oh right, I’ll just remember what I learned from a class I have never taken from a school I never went to. Thank you so much for the help!
@@themanformerlyknownascomme777 yes everyone attend the same class
South Park literally made a whole episode that basically parodies this exact presentation. its called "Freemium Isn't Free". it goes into surprising depth regarding the psychology of pay2win designs in video (and especially mobile) games.
For example, at one point in the episode, the kid named Stan gives up the game after being hooked on it for a while (and after racking up a $26.000 bill) only for his phone to constantly prompt him to come back and play, first the prompts are just like "hey come back guy, we miss you", then eventually it goes "you've just got 5000 canadough (canada coins) for free!" which prompts Stan to go "For free?" and then before he knows it, he is back in the viscous cycle.
This particular technique actually existed for a century with casinos. I met multiple people who get sent plane tickets and hotel rooms for free, just to show up in the casino. It's just a common sense to offer $500 gift when your ROI is 1000%...
There's multiple tiers to this. Depending on how much you spent last year, they'll rank up the "Carrot" size (e.g. start with hotel, then add gift cards, then add plane ticket, etc...)
@@VladR1024 Do they ever stop? I mean, at some point they start thinking you're not hooked anymore?
@@saitaroNo, they don't stop because those people are the kind who show up at the casino with a sign
"Shut up and take my money!"
Example - those friends of mine get several hotel vouchers every 3-4 months even now.
Guess what. They redeem them.
So,why on earth would a casino stop? It's basically free money...
Casino is merely helping all those people who have this terrible issue that they don't have anywhere else to spend their money 😂
I threw up a little
one year later i feel you. It is pretty sickening.
I can’t believe what I am hearing...
I threw up a lottle.
Just a little?
Only a little? I lost my organs
Take note, people. You may not like what's being said - I certainly find it revolting myself-, but staring down into the maw of the beast is the only way to know how it wants to eat you.
@The Thunderblade People aren't made equal when it comes to impulse control (cf. tobacco and alcohol use, drug use, spending too much on shopping and yes, gambling).
Having a sizable portion of an (or an entire) industry exploit these people's weaknesses is not only immoral but it makes society weaker as a whole as it then needs to take care of its ill or impoverished citizens.
Thinking people can just will themselves not to overindulge is a gross misunderstanding of human behavior. While complete prohibition is rarely (if ever?) a suitable prevention, thinking an unregulated market looks out for everyone is just naive as the only parameter the market cares about is profit, and one that's usually not sustainable to boot.
I don't need to look inside a tiger's mouth to see "how" it wants to eat me-- I can figure that out from 100 yards away.
"I will talk about the ethics at the end"... proceeds to not make any mention of ethics
Because none of the psychopaths in the audience brought it up. He said "if you have any moral objections " but no one did
He says he'll talk about ethics at the end _if there's time._ Although, actually, there was time, but he decided to use it to discuss more ways of screwing money out of people.
@@OrenwaldandLoraliah Actually, as somebody who's been to a lot of conferences and sat through a heck of a lot of presentations, my read of the audience is the opposite of yours. The brief applause and total lack of questions says to me that the audience was completely disengaged with what he said. Sure, nobody challenged him, but I didn't see any signficant support, either.
"I made that MISTAKE myself."
God forbid you make a game that's actually fun. XD
it's knd of like modern day American medicine - if you're curing people, you're doing it wrong.
That was hideous. Just as I thought the video couldn't get any more repulsive.
so disgusting
Oh FFS. Conspiracy theories....
@chirp chip wouldn't go that far. But there have definitely been many instances where there has been really promising research but companies chose to abandon it because it wouldn't be as profitable as the less effective medicine
Question. How do you sleep at night?
"On a bed made of money"
With many beautiful ladies.
This video explains why modern-day mobile gaming is shit.
I genuinely thought this talk was about spreading awareness of maleficent practices in game development. Until 10 minutes in, where I realized this guy is a manager and explains the matter so other people can exploit gamers as well.
"I genuinely thought this talk was about spreading awareness of maleficent practices in game development"
kind of is ... now ;P
just needs to get go viral 😂
yep, corruption is actually getting so fucked they feel like they can talk about it and get away with it.
But because of lobbying basically letting these guys write our laws and their stranglehold on information and media like Mainstream News, they actually fking can get away with it.
Which is shoot himself in the foot. Because sharing your trade secrets is the dumbest thing you can do.
Oh sweet summer child! Yeah, this guy is 100% into squeezing as much money out of you as possible, no matter what. :P
hahah gigachads finess money from nerds and the nerds complain
I honestly despise monetization in general but his presentation was neat, clear, straight forward, and informative. Now i understand more the mischevious tactics people use to rob someone else's money. Sike
a very good presentation tbh
10/10, can't sleep because the souls of addicted people I learned to exploit haunt me at night
Actually it really was well presented and informative. It's easy to hate the guy for his dedication to this process, but you can't argue that he has a good understanding of the industry and is able to explain it to people who can't analyze it themselves. Take this video with a grain of salt. He is explaining in normal words how the industry screws you. Thank him for wearing his greed on his shoulder so we can see it instead of hiding behind the blanket and pretending it's not intentional. But also go forward in life keeping this in mind, and never pay into these companies again... I have an addictive personality, and I know what has been happening over the years. It's just hard to stop, even if I hate myself for it. Use the hatred to fight the addiction. Hate this man and this process more than you hate yourself. That is how I am doing it now.
Wanna know more how you are being exploited?
This is how scam & spy business works:
wiki/Narrative
wiki/Censorship
wiki/Fiat_money
wiki/Non-disclosure_agreement
wiki/Regulatory_capture
wiki/Divide_and_conquer
wiki/Time-based_currency
wiki/Planned_obsolescence
wiki/Attention_economy
wiki/Behavioral_economics
wiki/Social_engineering_(security)
wiki/Surveillance
wiki/Big_data
wiki/Goldilocks_principle
wiki/Minimum_viable_product
wiki/Return_on_investment
wiki/NYSE
wiki/tencent
wiki/Loot_box
We live in a pretend society where fakeness is worshipped.
We live in a pretend society that's backstabbing individuals on global scale.
We live in AdLandia, AllGoodLandia.
Welcome to AdLandia, AllGoodLandia!
Where:
you have no voice,
you have no choice,
you have no space,
you have no escape,
you have no respect.
Where history gets deleted,
and future censored.
Where is the support when you need it?
It doesn't exist. Because it is unnecessary as everything is already "fixed."
People here like to suppress uncomfortable truth.
@@brokengames9020 You are absolutely correct. People might look at this and think you are a conspiracy theorist, but I can back this up. I wholeheartedly agree. Also, Tencent, the Chinese gaming company that robs people with copy/paste games, is one of the worst offenders. Play Naruto Online and pay $600-$800 US dollars for a single character in a 4 man squad, where it is sometimes necessary to have multiple different squads. Also, they encourage theft from children by allowing them to buy these things with Subway gift cards. If your kid looks like a coke addict that needs a fix asking for a Subway gift card, they might be hooked on Tencent.
This is the greatest marketing ted talk you could ever learn from.
It preys on the worst instincts, but it works.
I'm impressed. I still hate the concept, but I respect the logic.
manipulation logic*
The logic that only cares about Games not as a form of art for people to interact. A trade between Man to Man, instead is One man convincing the other to kill themselves for a cost.
Isn't funny that you think you need to become scum to gain people's money
Simply making a worthwhile experince is all you need, sadly not guaranteed just makes your game timeliness.
It makes it's legacy last.
As an average Joe, you don't stand a chance vs thousands of human behaviour scientists with millions of hours of study and this knowledge exploited by thousands of game developers perfecting it.
@@alexcat6685 for centuries we've worked to streamline the capitalist model. It is no surprise that to succeed with such a model one has to throw away some portion of their morality
Me too. I respect his willingness to share and the understanding of the name of the game in gacha.
Everything that was discussed is simple enough to be translated into games by any of the developers in the audience to make money and hook people and their wallets. New Year’s resolution for me. No gacha in 2024. I have deleted everything (Genshin, Honkai Star Rail, Reverse 1999, Diablo Immortal). I’ll have a lot more time in the morning that’s for sure.
This is like watching professional drug dealer teaching drug trafficking to aspired drug dealers. Just replace everytime he says "game" with word "drug".
Well yeah it's pretty much comparable on the ethics side of things, you're benefitting from other people's vulnerabilities against their detriment, and providing no social value in the process. I mean at least casinos give you cheap drinks and food and offer a place to go out at. These mobile spending games are a lot like the tobacco industry, they shouldn't exist because they cause a significant amount of harm and what good, if any, they might provide is negligible. The same goes for social media recently.
Make sure your drugs aren't too skill based.
@@memberberrie1881 drugs arent skill based tbh any body with a third grade education can do it
@@cortezjolly1604 but you have other factors, like for sure more people would consume smoking or swallowing than injection with needle, big brans my fren
These ethics are found all over. Get the person to keep coming back for a product that breaks constantly giving you a never ending source of income.
These people are like drug dealers and should literally be jailed for doing this.
This video a about to get really “popular”.
God bless you, Jim.
I'm here for the same reason
Let’s force him to turn the comments off. Hatred for these practices will be made known.
Oh ye
As soon as I heard about it I came straight to here.
Hopefully this guy gets arrested for fraud and embezzlement or just tax evasion like Martin Shkreli
someone make sure to archive the video and comments before it goes *poof*
Ahh yes, this is why business people are often portrayed as villains in kids' movies and stories haha
It's almost like capitalism is bad.
And are the actual Bad ones, buisness men aren't these monsters with the only care in the world is your money.
In reality they do care about your, because well they need to. Just they do it to give you a better a product, be it they want more money so they make a product you want to buy. Thats not manipulation thats creating something someone wants.
The more money they make, the more options they have to invest it in, so usually they go for things people want to.
A buisness men is a fellow small buisness owner, using the capatalist system to his advantage by having the freedom to create whatever product he wants too, to fit whatever people consider important now.
@@alexcat6685 however in this case the guy is deliberately describing how he isn't trying to make a quality product and is simply trying to work on predatory monetization strategies and human psychology to trick people into paying money. The goal is to create addiction cycles rather than making a product people actually enjoy.
@@FFgamesftw This is the most profitable way to make money in the gaming industry. This is why I prefer playing older games and single player based titles that don't implement these predatory practices... yet.
@@alexcat6685 Why would you defend this shit, poopoo man.
Do you want games to be less fun, more expensive and as he said "less skillbased"???
This talk sounds like he's begging people to stop paying for crap microtransactions by revealing his whole plan, yet nobody listened and continued to pay for garbage games.
Appalling practices. Excellent presentation.
We really should get as many people as possible to watch this video. The more widely known these techniques are the less effective they'll be.
I give it thumbs up. Best unintentional in-app-purchase PSA.
fnorgen I would love to see senator Hawley play this in front of the senate
This is basic capitalism.
Childrens don't give a shit about how the real world is working, they are still childrens after all, and they are usually the main targets of these games.
@@Rattopaz Children in the modern Gen Z have yet to develop a defense barrier: disciplined Tenacity to reject the Desires and lust put into the animu ea wwee and Pokemon Games' skinners' boxes. Investing into mental health for Young teenagers from 13-18, can not refuse the dopamine pump goodies. Some like me still sufferring from the after effects of Grind Gacha addiction, problems with games like Honkai Imapct 3rd and Genshin Impact.when invested deep into the rabbit they are invested in for life.
I'm showing it to my kids, who are just now getting into games that aren't single-player classics. No Roblox addicts in my household, thankyouverymuch.
rated D for Dystopian
any questions?
yeah, how do you sleep at night?
the energy, attitude and passion he talks about basically manipulating people to give money away is amazing... smart guy, zero conscience. truly doesn't see anything wrong with that
I don't either
@@ajaxmaxbitch well, I do. Generaly 2 things.
1) in terms of games - this takes any intention of making a good game out of game production. Game, in this regard, stops being a source of fun for the player, but becomes just a way to extract money from them for the developers. Similar trend is in movies today - you deconstruct the medium, pin point things which make people spend money and focus on them. The focus shifts from providing people with good product that they will be willing to pay, towards manipulating then into paying. And these are not the same.
2) in general - it's all about manipulating a person, using the weak points of our brain to gain advantage. In this regard there is not much difference between what this guy describes and the 'pick up schools'. In this analogy making a good game and getting paid for it, would be like honestly being interested in another person, hitting it off and hooking up, cause you like each other. And what this guy is explaining is how to manipulate someone insecure into sleeping with you by mechanically doing a certain chain of actions which will give the result with no true feelings or interest in the person.
@@ajaxmaxbitchcongratulations on having no backbone I guess?
Another thing, I just wanna know how little this guy sold out for, and what it feels like to have no soul and a black heart.
2 points made me extremely angry:
The first, where that guy says to "put morality aside for a bit"
The second, where he says that "I made the mistake of making a skill based game"..
It's so appalling really.
What's worse is that he didn't even mention morality again, and neither did anybody ask whether it was moral or ethical to trick their customers into overspending.
@@Melsharpe95 When IAP's are exempt from refund policies, there's literally no reason not to 'prey on the weak', so to speak.
People always thought it will be the nukes that will kill them.
But actually what is killing people is downgrading video games.
Welcome homo-billboardus!
Wanna know more how you are being exploited?
This is how scam & spy business works:
wiki/Narrative
wiki/Censorship
wiki/Fiat_money
wiki/Non-disclosure_agreement
wiki/Regulatory_capture
wiki/Divide_and_conquer
wiki/Time-based_currency
wiki/Planned_obsolescence
wiki/Attention_economy
wiki/Behavioral_economics
wiki/Social_engineering_(security)
wiki/Surveillance
wiki/Big_data
wiki/Goldilocks_principle
wiki/Minimum_viable_product
wiki/Return_on_investment
wiki/NYSE
wiki/tencent
wiki/Loot_box
We live in a pretend society where fakeness is worshipped.
We live in a pretend society that's backstabbing individuals on global scale.
We live in AdLandia, AllGoodLandia.
Welcome to AdLandia, AllGoodLandia!
Where:
you have no voice,
you have no choice,
you have no space,
you have no escape,
you have no respect.
Where history gets deleted,
and future censored.
Where is the support when you need it?
It doesn't exist. Because it is unnecessary as everything is already "fixed."
People here like to suppress uncomfortable truth.
No reason to make a skill based game in 2019 you're keeping the casual mainstream audience out that carries heavy wallets
Skill is ostracizing man
Isn't this video a blessing by revealing secrets?
I started talking drugs when I was 13, ended up addicted to heroin, living on the streets, I'm not even going to try to describe the amount of death & violence that was in my life almost every day and that feeling of hoping the next hit sends you over so you don't have to wake up again.
A while after I got clean I picked up a mobile game, I was lonely (having had to cut off all my friends from before I got clean) and bored (having gone from the 24/7 work of making money to score, scoring, using, then repeating as quickly as possible to having no idea how to pass the time) so I installed a few mobile games.
I got into one, it wasn't even all that play to win, it was still fairly heavily skill & dedication based ("grind" I guess) but as soon as these sort of tricks like limited-time reduced price deals popped up my addict brain - which literally has developed from a young age with addiction to dopamine-spikes and a feeling of emptiness or being down without them - went to work and it took me a while to realise I was actually an addict again because it was a game. It was when I was asking people to borrow money for food cos I "hadn't budgeted well this month" again that I thought, dam I'm actually not even clean anymore.
Luckily it wasn't that far down the line and I hadn't really screwed my finances & rent up by the time I stopped, but the biggest hit to me was feeling like I was back to square one and was still an addict, not clean, again. That really destroyed my belief in all the progress I'd made.
I'm well aware some of you are going to say "just don't do it" but try swapping brains with mine for a day and being biologically conditioned to be weak against these kind of manipulations - if I saw a limited-time package on that game and was sensible & didn't spend the money, it would be ALL I could think about for days, it'd literally keep me up at night.
Fortunately I'm one of the people who made it through to the other side. I collect Warhammer now, which is still a lot of money for something, but I feel like I've got tangible things to show for it, I'm always increasing in skill (in painting & playing), I meet people through it and paint with mates and it's far far easier to not overspend on. I'm pretty happy with the queue of models I have to paint and although there's loads more I want to buy, paint and add to my army I know there's only so many models I can paint so I don't want to just build a huge queue & not finish anything.
But nowdays people are growing up with more and more of and better and better designed behavioural-psychology and dopamine-feedback loop based systems bombarding them throughout SO much of the day. And I think even if it's not drugs we're still raising generations of kids to have brains like mine that have to be careful about so so many things that other people can have healthy relationships with incase of potentially destroying our life, stability and future. And all for something they don't even enjoy that much but they just can't stop from doing it, so much so they will know they don't have the money for this but will rationalize it to disturbing levels.
Pardon my gut reaction to _Warhammer_ of all things being the safe haven that rescued you from the addicion money hole! XD
All seriousness, I think your story is awesome, and inspiring to me. I was a pretty steady addict into Magic the Gathering before the pandemic hit. Only when I couldn't go to my LGS anymore did I realize that I... suddenly had money at the end of each month. I suddenly wasn't pulling from savings to pay my bills. And I hadn't ever even been spending more than a couple hundred bucks on the game every couple months, but... that's hundreds of bucks!!
I've since then picked D&D back up from my college days, and it's infinitely better for my mental and financial stability. And it's amazing to me now that I'll really struggle with, "Hmm, is it worth buying this $14 dry erase board for my battle maps?" when just 2 years ago, I'd routinely drop $40 multiple times on multiple sets, multiple times a year, for pieces of cardboard I'd look at maybe once and never touch again. And back then I remember mocking the 40k guys who played at the store, thinking, "Haha, those guys spend so much money on that one hobby," when _I myself_ was no better... in fact I was worse, because I was _arrogantly_ ignorant.
This video (and getting to vent the last of my sad prejudice of Warhammer) has allowed me to really learn more about the nature of addiction and our hypocritical prejudices towards it. I'm showing this video to my kids ASAP to help teach them about the seemingly harmless ways you can get totally manipulated and drawn down a path you don't want to go.
@@SomeTH-camTraveler Haha yes I fully hear you on Warhammer being "better" 🤣. Fortunately for me myself it is but I could definitely see people (especially Space Marine players) getting stuck in that addictive loop, compulsive spending & rationalising things that aren't rational. Especially as GW is huge on "exclusive" and "don't miss out!" releases. It says a lot about them as a company that they, intentionally or unintentionally, are utilising behavioural psychology in their business practises. I think if I didn't maintain an attitude grounded in "one project at a time" I could see it all becoming a problem again for me.
Since I wrote this comment I've actually started to try to move away from G.W. models & games and into other things that people play at my friendly local game store, just because of Games Workshop's practises. But I'll still always be thankful for Warhammer for getting me out of a feeling of depressive spending, spending I regretted afterwards, and for getting me out & helping me make new friends - once I had that confidence & social life again I was able to go back to work too.
You should be proud of yourself too, whether you did it intentionally or not you moved away from that addictive pattern but the most important thing is you maintained it. Once the brain is used to that loop it's so easy to default to it.
But you're absolutely right about the ignorance - I think what's so insidious about free to play games, intense social media usage, and all these dopamine-feedback loops that companies try to use today is that... Well let me put it this way: a heroin addict (who doesn't want anything from you) will always tell you they're an addict, you completely know you're addicted and it's ruining your life. With things like free to play games, or MTG in your case, it's really really unlikely you'll be able to recognise it's an addiction or at least that you're displaying addictive tendancies or behaviours. Personally I have to wonder if I hadn't gone through the drug addiction first, would I have noticed and noticed soon enough that I had become addicted to free to a play game and known that it absolutely has to stop immediately? Personally I don't know and I don't think so. Again it scares me that kids growing up with these dopamine-feedback loops all around them that don't have the stigma or the physical "using" of drugs will fall into the trap of addiction and not even realise it's happening to them.
I'm really glad that you're going to show this your kids. I'm sure it will help them identify traps before they fall into them & I can only see them benefiting. If telling my story under it was part of that decision then it makes that the most worthwhile comment I've ever made online. Obviously I wouldn't at all want you to talk about things like heroin to them but, if it's appropriate & it's helpful, then please do let them know that there absolutely are real people out there who become addicted to free to play games like these.
Personally, myself, I think the solution to this as a society is to start to see mental exercise in the same way as exercising in the gym: every time you're saying no to or delaying that thing you want, every time you stand up to your mind saying "Do it! Do it!", every time you practise concentrating on something for a long time, everytime you're using your willpower, then you are making your mind stronger. It's being shown in research now: things like that the longer you delay a reward makes it more you enjoy & the less you regret it, that willpower can be strengthened in the brain's neurons through practise, that people with addiction-compromised brains will always have to be careful about easy-access dopamine, and the famous "neurons that fire together wire together". Practising self-discipline is like a mental health workout. For me practising non-religious meditation was a huge part of getting myself clean & getting rid of cravings. I still practise it every day - and every time I'm doing it, just trying to concentrate on my breathing and returning to it when my mind wanders, I feel like I'm doing a "mental workout" and making my brain a tiny bit stronger, just like lifting weights does for your muscles.
Anyway thanks for the kind words. I'm really glad you're out of that cycle too. It doesn't matter if it's life-destroying or just too much, it's never good and it's always hard to escape. I'm sure you're going to be able to guide and teach your children so they won't make these mistakes themselves. Just knowing these kind of traps exist is the biggest step to avoiding them that there is.
Really happy to hear it went well in the end. I can't fathom being the kind of person to say "you should have just said no". It's a perspective completely devoid of empathy. These practices need to be regulated or otherwise socially and culturally frowned upon. Especially when it's available to and targeting such young people.
so instead of being on actual crack you are now on plastic crack
Thanks for sharing this! I see how Warhammer figures are a better way of spending money to you! Especially if it connects you with friends and teaches you practical skills! All the best to you!
Thanks Jim for bringing this to my attention. This is pure manipulation! Absolutely disgusting.
Ben Ward in return you should bring this to the attention of Senator Hawley.
I'd love to see this played to the senate
You should see the techniques that Netflix employs to keep you watching and subbing XD the entire world is manipulation, we're all being sold the kool-aid unfortunately
Can you give a link to "jims
" video on this?
@@kinghazythethird No problem man.
th-cam.com/video/7S-DGTBZU14/w-d-xo.html
He talks a bit about it around the 6 min mark and then in parts throughout the video.
@@kinghazythethird th-cam.com/video/7S-DGTBZU14/w-d-xo.html
There you go bud
A friend told me they had a break down because they missed a daily in a game they've been playing for years, and then blamed their partner for not reminding them (they were both playing it). Thankfully they've gotten over it since/relationship is still intact.
Another friend spent many hours a day to grind because of some event in a game. Literally just clicking at plants. This was over multiple days (I think a week?). I had to wait for them to finish before we could go anywhere to do something fun on a couple occasions.
That same friend started spending more on gacha games once they got a raise. Still says they're broke.
These tactics are despicable, but I appreciate that he laid it out/revealed the psychological aspects. I just don't know what to do about my friends/if I can help.
I don't know if they'll listen to you, but just trying to teach them these tactics could help. Figuring out how people can mislead and manipulate me has been one of the single most important skills in my life, not just for predatory mobile games, but for life in general. From my experience, learning how people dupe others is the first step towards avoiding being duped.
That being said, breaking these habits once you've gotten dug-in can be really fucking hard. Especially when sunk cost fallacy comes into play. The: "I've spent $500 on this game already, I can't quit now" line of reasoning. I know this comment was 3 months ago, so whatever's happening, I hope your friends are doing a little better. It saddens me to see games like this hurt so many people.
@@lainhyugatha3762 Thanks! So far, it's gotten a little better. They mainly play to distract themselves from the stresses of work/relationships, so not sure it will be as easy unless we find some other (hopefully productive/no destructive) activit(ies).
Best advice to all of them is that “It’s never a must to pay/commit to that game.” And “take a break if you feel pressured to do something you normally wouldn’t do”
I’m currently playing Honkai Star Rail, a turn based gacha game from Hoyoverse. I really love its story and content but as of now, I am pressured by the game to spend and get the character (aka “collectables”) I want. I almost spent roughly 100 bucks, tho ppl in the community reminds me I should never pressured to pay or get certain things in such game. It has its worth and I should never let FOMO control me.
I think I will take a good break after such banner is gone. The game is no longer enjoyable as it was before.
@@lainhyugatha3762 Here's a book tip for you based on your interest in this stuff: "Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion" by Robert Cialdini
Yea show them this video. Knowing that they're being duped, and that there are others like them ( so they don't double-down on it to save face ) should be all they need, to know that they're addicted, and can start weening themselves
Behold the future of video games from the perspective of greedy publishers and developers. It’s very telling how he actually admits that it isn’t being advertised to appeal to a large consumer base. It is advertised to appeal to a fractional percentage of people that will compulsively spend and spend and spend on the illusion of tangible investment. It is the biggest exploitation of a niche market. The niche market that such publishers attempt to convince us, the majority of consumers, is dying. That platformers are niche. That horror is niche. That they are therefore irrelevant... but if you can exploit the weak few for massive gains, suddenly the niche become “whales”, and you get games that appeal to almost nobody, kept afloat by the bottomless well of cash ebbing forth from the hopelessly addicted and manipulated.
Bravo you disgusting bastards. You have found a way to alienate the majority of people, and still make overhead.
A Wild Deku I'm glad this video exists. We can spread it to Senator Hawley and other politicians and they can actually understand what's going on
"Mechwarrior is niche".
Every dev that ever took over the IP.
It isn't even that they're trying to appeal to anyone... those niche players aren't being appealed to, they're being *abused.* Someone else in the comments talked about having an addictive personality and how these tactics impacted them psychologically and how destructive it was to their psyche. Shameful stuff. These corporate ghouls in the gaming industry need to be routed out.
There was a man who had a firefighting business of sorts in ancient Rome, who would demand people sell their property to him, and that their *neighbors* sell their property to him, before he would send his people in to fight a fire. He was executed by molten gold being poured down his throat. I think about this often....
@@peppermintgal4302 That sounds tempting. Although I am against any form of execution.
For someone who played those building competetive strategy games, everything this guy says makes sense and is definetly working. The biggest reasons why Whales are paying so much is because they want to be better than the casual, but the moment they want to be better than another whale, the big spending begins.
What you described is how old MMORPG's monetisation worked in the 20xx - 201x years. Now its different. Nowadays most devs consider, just as the guy in the video said, "too dangrous". The most successful mobile games figured out nowadays that instead of having 2 whales fight (loser will be dissapointed & may leave), they will make fake rivals, either of insane AI bots + CM on their chatting or even the whole thing being played by minimum wage/or even literal slaves given access to 100% fake, made from scratch accounts from their office to entertain (but lose to) whales. So the whale will always win as long as he or she pays....that is whats really evil.
That's pretty much what I, as an outside observer, take away from Clash of Clans for example. Like, you'll get assraped in game by some dude who simply spent a fuckton and can't ever out-grind that, because you have to regain the resources you just lost to the spender.
This vid put it into proper perspective when I was getting mad last week that I was CONSIDERING paying $10 to remove ads from a freemium game having it played daily last 4 weeks :) :) :)
A master class on how to scam people.
This man should be in prison.
this presentation is both, disgusting and good at the same time.
if more people would see it, the less they would be inclined to fall for this stuff.
@@gorgoneuryale8748 there will be people who will take the hints, then theres the ones who dont.
every % matters
dafff08 send this to Senator Hawley and other politicians.
As well as TH-camrs like Yong
Indeed.
@@gorgoneuryale8748 research has shown that it actually works.
That's true only to a point. These tactics are designed to addict and manipulate people. Many, once aware of the tactics, can guard against them, but some are vulnerable to it and will get taken to the cleaners because they just can't stop.
Yes, let's discuss the *morality* of putting $60 """microtransactions""" in games like FIFA that are rated E for everyone and 3 & up.
The ethics of exploiting children and kids surely requires lots and lots of discussing.
How tf do you sleep at night?
They sleep rich. Sad but true.
They should be tried for child predation
60 dollars game, flushed out every year. Most of those kids will repeat the process every year for practically the same game. It's actually sad to think we let corporations get away with this.
This is standard business practices, this is literally marketing 101.
They sleep in their million dollar homes with their $200k cars in the driveway.
This was actually a really interesting talk, and absolutely worth a watch, even for non-gamers. People may hate what he said, but these are all hard facts about human psychology. Most of the concepts he mentioned are not remotely unique for gaming monetization either, we humans have experienced them on a daily basis through ads and even when you go grocery shopping, and if you have worked in marketing, sales, or just business development in general there is a good chance you have used these tactics.
Someone should save this video for posterity before it gets taken down.
I'm on it. This is the content which should be preserved just to remind people of the egregious practices of the game industry and how smug these fucking developers are. The sheer nerve they have is absolutely appalling. this would've gotten unnoticed if it wasn't for Jim Sterling but I'm definitely saving this just in case people immediately forget in the near future, how fucking scummy the industry is in general.
I think maybe you mean posterity as opposed to posteriority? A posterior is something different hahaha
I saved it for this very reason.
Corrected, cheers.
it will go down and we should do everything to make people see it.
everything that educates them, makes them less suszeptible to said topic.
this material is "you dont talk about the fight club" stuff
0:11 This is how the gaming industry dies, with thunderous applause.
Never thought a quote from the prequels would be so poignant and pertinent
@@Bulletproof_Trump A lot of shit from the prequels are. They were a bit ahead of their time tbh, you can trash the writing and such or criticize the now aged CGI, but the questions they made you ask are more relevant than ever.
Oh dw, the Industry's just fine. They have enough ways to make money apparently :')
Convenience = Time reduction
Customization = Skins
Competitive advantage = pay to win gear
Content = DLC
It is scary how I never noticed this.
Any game that ever has the first one as a mechanic where you can pay money to skip the wait I put down and never come back to. I personally don't care for customization so I don't buy skins, competitive advantage also is a big "no" for me but most games are smart enough to realize it pisses people off. The only one that I personally fall prey to is DLC
As for DLC, I think paying for additional content in the form of expansion packs if the base game is complete and the content is worthwile isn't a bad thing.
Shame that DLC is now used by buissnesmen to restrict content that should have been in the base game and sell it back to the player for more money.
Not every DLC is bad but you need to be highly suspicious of games with DLCs.
@@FFgamesftw There's nothing to "fall prey" to. You should WANT more content beyond the game's initial release, the development of which would ideally be funded from the sales of the initial game and in turn would funder further content rich DLC. So long as they aren't gating away content that would normally have been included in the base game, no one loses.
@TryHarderManiac Did you just ignore the part where this guy said that consistently making additional content alone is unsustainable due to how much time, resources and effort it takes compared to the other methods? Pretty big hint that this by far is the least (aka not at all in most cases where it is dropped significantly after a content rich and polished base game is released) exploitative and most substantive method of asking your customers for more of their money than the others.
Ah, but why think when you can say things like "CaPiTaLiSm BaD."
I don't get why the like/dislike ratio is in its current state. I think people should appreciate that this sort of content exists, so that we know exactly what to be wary and feared about - some of these I've heard while studying Behavioural Economics at the University.This video right here should have been liked and shared as much as possible so that it gets attention of general audience. Instead, such a valuable piece of information remains mostly unseen for almost 3 years - a shame. By disliking this video you are doing EXACTLY what those money-grabbing Mega-Corporations want: divert attention and blur away the knowledge on the subject as much as possible.
Remember the presenters point about fast thinking against slow thinking? That's an excellent example of it! People are angry about the content of the video and the down-vote button is an immediate outlet for this anger.
@@LostInNumbers Only proves the point of the video itself. The majority of people are easy to exploit and manipulate.
You're both right. People have apparently become confused between the documentary aspect of the video and the message of the person being documented. I also think that most people don't understand how TH-cam works and are inadvertently promoting videos that they don't like. My understanding is that the feedback voting buttons are mostly for influencing future content of your own personal recommended feed but as far as the video is concerned, voting either way is considered to be engagement that will raise TH-cam's perception of its value, causing it to be promoted more strongly to others. In other words, disliking a video serves to promote it to other viewers as strongly as liking it, and I believe that commenting is weighted higher than voting.
Why? The more dislikes, the more controversial it is, which means more views
@@NightWanderer31415 Presumably down voting makes the video look less enticing to the TH-cam algorithms, thus limiting its exposure. That said, the algorithms are a black box and who knows if the video ever would have caught on on its own anyway. I've personally abstained, because I sure as hell don't want to say I "like" it.
Guys “put morality to the side” and help me sell cigarettes to children
Yes and we can sell guns to terrorists.
For money of course.
Just label them "18+" and children will sell their souls to get them.
@@sigmundfreud4618 there is no need to tag the game "18+" you see the cancer, addiction and many thrown away money because of "cigerates" is legal since it is "surprise mechanic"
Ever seen the Whites Kids sketch "Kid Beer"? Hilariously fitting. XD
This video is both a blessing and a curse.
It allows us to understand greedy monetization practices..but it also helps is understand how to milk customers dry of their money and well being..
If you see it that way, in the way of money maker past it's heavy flaws.
I don't believe you were a good person to begin with, just as similar to the monsters actually commiting these crimes.
@@alexcat6685 ?
@@alexcat6685 It's a blessing because it helps consumer understand these shitty practices and try to avoid them.
It's a curse because it helps greedy buissnesmen who make this shit understand these practices better too.
Props to the janitors who had to clean up the slime trail this guy left across the stage.
For those of you who said this was GOING to destroy the gaming industry, now fast forward 4 years.
It HAS destroyed the gaming industry.
Genshin Impact china destroyed it
Eh, it's hardly destroyed. You have to swim through a sea of shit to get to the gold, but even now there are lots of new games worth playing.
@@MundaneThingsBackwards still plagued by bs monetisations though.
@@magnuscritikaleak5045 Didn't say it wasn't.
capitalism gets its dirty hands on everything
This is the most depressing video I've seen in a long time. It just blows my mind how this isnt viewed as a straight up scam and made illegal. Especially the gatcha bullshit. It's literally gambling for children AND even if you win. You can never convert that back into real money. It's like winning at the casino but you can't cash your chips in. You can only buy casino merch with your winnings LOL. It sounds so crazy to say but that's literally what's happening...
It's worse than that. These mobile games have short lifespans, and when service ends and the game shuts down permanently, all the fake casino merch you earned just disappears.
Im utterly shocked to see that all the monetization practices that I have loathed and perceived throughout the years, and even practices that I did not at first asociate with monetization are in fact used with so much manipulative, conscious and precise thought into each and every game that incorporates microtransactions. It's absolutely disgusting and watching this conference gives me a very bad feel in my guts to be honest, to know that a medium that used to be mostly about fun has gotten so dark and corrupt. Just disgusting...
Oh, that's economics psychology for you. This is being done everywhere. Not just gaming. You know, they like to put the cheap items in the store down at the bottom of the shelf, so you don't see them immediatly and your eyes first wander over the expensive products. That's also economics psychology. All you can do is study it yourself, so you don't fall victim to it in any circumstance.
Disgusting
"Make sure your games aren't too skill based."
And the games that are really based on skills are being attacked by media saying that they are not suitable for every one.
hmm never thought about that.
It's no surprise most mobile games have auto-play modes.
I recall reading a review that Dark Souls is bad and exclusionary because handicapped people with neurotic disorders would never be able to beat it.
Ah yeah the git gud controversy
Game journalists attack Sekiro because there is not an easy difficulty.
Diablo immortal has all of these. Wtf?!!
This video is now being used as a prime example of why the games now will face legislation. It's like a list for everything you need to ban in one neat package.
Yes dude, you clearly left morality out of the door. More likely kicked it away years ago. Disgusting manipulation techniques.
Not sure he ever had it. He is a textbook sociopath. Probably born that way.
@@Buderbukz He is considered also a Game academic by Swedish and Finnish Univerisities.
@@magnuscritikaleak5045 he very well may be "figure of speech", obviously he is if what you say is true. I don't doubt you. Still doesn't change the fact he is a textbook sociopath.
Im here because of Diablo immortal
It's really interesting to see how this works under the hood. That's way more thought-out than I'd ever expect.
Friends don't let friends play freemium games.
Well, economics guys in suits aren't stupid.
@@Gloriankithsanus gamers are stupid
Supermarkets have done these tricks since the 50's and car manufacturers
The gall to put morality aside ON CAMERA, ON STAGE! Sickening...And twisted...
A dragon name Booker and how the “morality” is never mentioned again after that point. I wonder why
@@edmundblackadder2741 There is no room in the gaming industry for morality if there are investors and profitability.
A dragon name Booker send this to government officials
Parliament, Congress, Senator Hawley, Belgians, Australians, etc.
It's business and capitalism at its finest, so don't bring morality into it. Do you expect businessmen to play friends, shake hands and sing along? That's childish, that's how you get devoured by bigger companies
i have software, that asksme if i want to updateto paid version once in a while, but instead of a "yes" or "no", it says, "yes" or "no ill miss out"
Wew boy, hope you enjoy your newfound fame, Torulf.
Remember the old saying, "do unto others as you would have them do unto you"? Well apparently that philosophy just flew out the window in the modern video game industry. Their philosophy is now "try to extract money from your players through every moment of the gaming experience".
Very true man.
Welcome to capitalism my guy
It's fun to watch him say "wall street trader" and "oil sheik" as if he doesn't know that a lot of his whales are people who don't have that kind of money. The majority of whales are the lonely, desperate, or those who have poor impulse control / gambling issues. In some case quite literally the mentally ill. Some spend all their disposable income on the game because they have nothing else to spend their money on (an incredibly lonely and depressed person with no friends for example). Other spend money they NEED, for food and rent because they cannot control their addiction. And some even spend money they don't have (getting loans) on the game. It is life ruining.
I guess that's the biggest reason this video irks me so much. I've never once met a gacha 'whale' that has their life fully put together. They're always someone lonely/depressed, usually suffering from childhood trauma, and use gaming as a way to dissociate and cope with their empty lives, usually in combination with some drug addiction. These people are the most vulnerable to falling into the sinkhole of investing into one of these games, but the companies making them only view them as a dollar sign.
Well to be fair I think alot of whales are indeed rich guys but the other half are people addicted / who don't have that kind of money
And this is why I don't play on mobile. Or don't buy AAA shit games.
But Darkest Dungeon and FTL are on mobile now
James Barclay they are great games on mobile but most of the goods you have to pay to buy them like a healthy bussines should do
People are criticising Torulf here, but the majority fail to note that on every point he makes, there is a subtle applause, laughter, murmurs of general agreement. The audience are in on it as much as he is!
Christian Firth-godney Well of course, it's a seminar that they had to pay to see. They want his knowledge so they can make their own games to fuck over people.
Because they have been been learning similar practices since high school
I think you've misread the audience completely. I didn't hear any applause at all during the talk; just brief "polite" applause afterwards. What you're taking as "laughter [and] murmors of general agreement" I think were actually just a bad audio recording that was massively amplifying the ambient noise in the room whenever was silent.
As somebody who's been to a lot of conferences and attended many presentations, what struck me most about the audience was that the applause at the end was very perfunctory, and there were zero questions. If the audience finds the talk interesting, they'll always ask questions. If they were generally positive about it, somebody would almost certainly ask a bland question like "Of all the techniques you mentioned, which do you think is the most important?" Getting no questions at all basically means that your audience isn't interested in what you said.
this is so fucking evil jesus christ
"Knowing is half the battle". I hope more people see this, because the better you know how this sort of game preys on it's players psychology, the more equipped you are to protect yourself from such exploitation.
its getting them people to watch it and understand it that's the problem, i try and most saying "im not watching that just for it to prove me right" or worse just say it dont happen in payed games lol.
This video needs to be preserved for historical records.
I'm quite sure the Wayback Machine has archived it by now
@@segganewthey don't archive videos
These are the things iam learning as a junior marketer, and seeing you all surprised reminds me of the first time learning these marketing tactics, iam no longer surprised, its how we work.
This is what genshin impact does, despicable stuff honestly. But the players eat that stuff up.
Correct, as several other not anymore only free 2 play games are doing. Anyway, I am pretty impressed how this guy has the balls to go onto the stage and tell this scheme in this dry and cold way, how the players are only cows to be milked. This video should be mandatory lecture in schools, so the people are learning that the game companies are NOT their friends.
Thankfully I had already seen this video when I tried Genshin out, so I saw all the tricks a few hours in, uninstalled that damn thing and never looked back.
The worse thing about all this is that Genshin is a straight-up mobile game ported to modern systems and PC with the exact same approach regardless of platform. That makes everything 10x worse as it's normalizing the practices to an audience that's only used to *some* of these tricks in console games.
Soon we'll have 60 dollar... EDIT/CORRECTION, 70 dollar AAA games selling Energy-type items so you are "allowed" to play their endgame content for more than 3 hours a week, and it'll all be Genshin's fault. It's the new horse armor of the AAA gaming industry right now.
Kinda reminds me of genshin impact....
Spot on mate! Genshin Impact is followed his teachings and Aleister crowley's symbols.
atleast it has a fucking game behind it
I wanted to disagree at first, since you can easily clear everything in the game with free units from events, or even the starting units if you're good.
Then I thought about it a little more, and realized, they are actually using most of these methods, but the game is so good and so big, that they can monetize each player according to their proclivities without pushing people out of their feel-good zone.
It's beautiful and a little scary.
@@voices0000 When someone brings up the "you can beat it all without paying" arguement, I always get flashbacks of clash of clan's "you can beat it all without paying by playing it everyday for 5 or more years".
@@voices0000 another slippery slope Genshin White Knighter.
This is how Surprise Mechanics work eh EA?
This is a presentation made for CEOs and Managment, not actuall buyers or developers.
It's now in Tekken 8 too
@@hurricane7727 Cool
When you put disclaimer about the morality of something, it's likely you are dealing with exploitation.
I don't even like playing video games anymore, mostly because of how gaming industry adopted techniques shown in this video. I lost all passion for this hobby.
All scumbaggery of this aside, this is actually fascinating to watch. In a way, I really respect and admire this piece of shit, the way he did his homework here, how he has all of this figured out. Human brain is a marvelous thing. If he'd put all that effort into something actually good, he could move mountains. Guess he'll move whales.
dude, just play indies or AAs. there's less to no bullshit compared to the AAAs and you'll find some truly fun games still being made like Furi, Hollow Knight, Risk of Rain 2, and Bloodstained.
Triple Helix Wys I do, actually. I'm just wrapping up with Celeste.
@@borek92 well i'm doing the same with The Surge so good luck with that
@@triplehelix3207 we know we have other options, still , I have seen the last 32 years of how gaming and everything around it evolved. its the biggest travesty i ever witnessed. its sad. extremely sad. Im tired of having to check who developed a game just to know what not to play because the pricks who made the game are predatory moneyhungry sociopaths that dont deserve to breathe.
Underrated comment. Providing objective perspective while still taking ground on their subjective opinion - the latter of which, I still agree with.
Who else is here from Mrwhosetheboss
Did he link this video here? I didn't see it anywhere in the description lol
@@zuriel4783 No, I just searched the video game name and this video popped up.
No thanks. This is why I only will buy games that dont partake in the dark arts.
This is all so tiresome. It's about time these people face retribution.
They are not making games
They are making money
Reject their games, dont buy them, you vote with your wallet remember
Why is this downvoted so hard? This is a very good and educational talk. If anything this should be upvoted to bring attention to the practices and design choices that go into developing media equivalent of drugs to people.
People are "hurt".
"Emotions" and "feelings" and "oh, this is immoral" stuff
and they are downvoting because of their emotion, or because they don't agree with the methods
which is crazy and one of the reasons why they are able to exploit the masses
this man literally pulled back the curtain to show us multiple ways on how gachas are exploiting their playerbase; this is a gold nugget of knowledge!
Because people are sheep much like what the guy in this video said, they see a bunch of people are angry, so that means they have to be too.
@@CrazyChillDog probably because the dude literally fucking said he was leaving morality at the door. People are just mad that he is promoting these practices to the crowd, hes not "exposing the industry" to the crowd
@@M_CFV He is a Game Academic (Torulf) from Finland there are Game academics like Ian Bogost and Lars Karznac who says Videogames shouldn't have characters but endless Systems. No kidding go to The Atlantic Post Ian Bogost search for Videogames shouldn't have characters and another he wrote in 2017 Videogames shouldn't have Stories.
@@magnuscritikaleak5045 What's wrong with what Ian Bogost said? I read the beginnings of those articles. It seems like he is criticizing modern games for being too similar and not being creative with gameplay. If anything, he would be horrified by this talk.
I've never been so proud of comment section in my life
This video is horrifying
This should be a mandatory video to watch for everybody who tries their first gatcha/mobile/ea game.
@Void waker
Mandatory for gambling addicts.
"Leave the moralizing for somewhere private" indeed. Scumbag. These people could make all the money and more if they just tried making a decent product once in a while.
When in-app purchases are pretty much exempt from refund policies, there's little reason to not just bait as much cash out of people as possible.
sure but they make a whole lot more this way.
And yet, people will still buy the games and pay for the MS and lootboxes. They get away with it because we let them.
If they tried to make a decent product, they would fail so hard haha. A good game is a piece of art and people who make them need to be great artist. These scumbags instead specialize in exploiting people's addictions. That's an entirely different skill and priority set. Just listen to Matt Thorson's GDC speech about his Celeste and then to this asshole. The difference become blatantly obvious.
actually, those scheme earn more money than any video game, sadly the mobile market is very massive.
Why is why nintendo is now going that way with their new mobile app dr mario, which is nothing but a predatory candy crush clone.