I love your description of the on-board spark gaps, Domo-Kun teeth. If only Rigol had the same style of pcb art as you, and he might have a body too :D
Good luck with the warranty! I am unsure if this scope is high enough end, but some have that glass screen purely as a shield - it's ITO glass. Thanks for another teardown, always appreciated!
I don't think it's emi shielding, as the actual electronics are well partitioned off from it. Looking in the edge of the glass, it looks like typical greenish soda-lime window-glass, but then I've never handled ITO glass, so I wouldn't know it by sight.
Connor Wolf ITO looks pretty much like glass, there's very little difference. It's a surface coating only. I believe the reason for it is that the transistors in the TFT are switching really fast and rhythmically, so can cause ringing. But I'm not an expert here :)
Great follow up video! I was kind of hoping you'd make note of what markings/brand ect was on the encoders, that way you could find ones with detents :P
Hello Good job. I love this explanations. But i have a question too: Does someone know where ibcan get a nem panel for this oszilloscopes? (DS1102Z-E) I go a new one with broken LCD and i want try to repair it. All functions are working well but the handling, only by remote, is a little crap. Thank you for reading and support.
It's currently in for service. It took way too long to get there because there was a three-way communication clusterfuck between the purchasing dept at work, Tequipment, and Rigol.
Sweet teardown! Not much to the internals these days. Looking at the footprint for the missing Logic Analyser BGA and it's SRAM-connection, i'd bet it's another Spartan 6-device.
I would assume the logic-analyzer would *probably* use the exact same FPGA. and DRAM. They do like their part-reuse. The DRAM is the same between the application processor and ADC FPGA as well.
I just got the logic analyzer version of this... the MSO1104Z. It's awesome. Although I haven't tried the logic analyzer portion yet, but will soon. I got the -S version with 2 function generators. I didn't see any missing places for that on the teardown. Would those be implemented in the FPGA? So Lone Wolf, did Rigol fix it under warranty? Was it doing that before you took it apart?
Maybe that big chip located top-right of FPGA is some sort of arm u-controller because there is ARM-24MHz test point nearby :) And there is 10-pin header on right (JTAG?).
If you have a decent canon DSLR, would you consider shooting in 1080p RAW? With firmware such as magic lantern, you can get similar dynamic range to a RED epic camera, and it only uses a miniscule 90-95MB/s (Megabytes per second ) (that is a lengthly 5.5 - 6 minutes per 32GB SD card). You can then, with a little color grading and some tone mapping, you can get the movie "300" look
Is it bad that I've actually considered this? The man reason I don't shoot using my 5D2 is the lack of autofocus. I can't exactly be my own focus-puller while doing the teardown.
I bought it through Tequipment.net, so I'll be hearing from them. Also, I'm working through the purchasing dept at work, so everything will probably take 3 times as long as you would expect.
Primary and Secondary windings have natural capacitance, and to prevent AC currents from traveling between the windings, SMPS designers usually add a 1-2KV Y Grade capacitor with a larger capacitance across the primary and secondary neutral-ground planes to redirect the parasitic currents... The problem is, sometimes the currents are not symmetrical and what you get is a net charge build up on this Y grade capacitor, which can charge up to several thousand volts so those teeth provide a safe discharge path. This is of course a very unlikely scenario, but I have seen these teeth snap before under very power-noisy situations.
Connor Wolf Of course I don't. And while google reveals a chinese brand Micsig tablet oscilloscope which seems to do a lot right btw (tablet and isolated channels) then I see none from the known/available brands where it counts. Of course you don't need the buttons. Think a little.
Really Rigol? CapXon?! I remember that name, and definitely not in a good way. I've taken caps of this brand out of serveral devices (monitors, PC PSUs, wallwart PSUs, even a mainboard) because they failed. Some of the devices didn't last longer than two years.
Eh, over at badcaps.net we call them "CrapXon" Agreed, the number of the damn things I've pulled from IT equipment is beyond belief! All stuff less than 3 years old and all with failed(/ing) CrapXons in... ugh.
badcaps.net is a site founded to teach you and help you how to "recap" your device. They do that for living as a business. I wouldn't name them unbiased in that question, which capactitor is good which one bad and must be changed. And an other fact that electronics industry is changing. I remember when Samsung was a really crap undemanding cheap brand. It was really. Then few year later their displays (CRT) become better and more famous than Sony displays. Then they become one of the biggest consumer electronics firm in the world. Now they are not better than Sony, neither worse they can do similar quality. Maybe that CapXon capacitor on the video is very crap quality. Maybe its an average not so good not so bad, but enough. And maybe its better than average, maybe its better than your Panasonic. People in electronics or in SW industry can't live in the past, these worlds are changing very-very quickly.
I expect that oscilloscope makers will soon go away from this elaborate multiboard metal box construction to a single board touch screen design with minimal buttons and smaller connectors. No need for those bnc sizes. The board can be much smaller as well. Simpler, cleaner throughout. I also hope they will start making isolated channels. Shared ground is rather limiting and dangerously misleading. Even though it means you need an ADC per channel and optic connections.
Good video, maybe edit and think it much shorter. No need to see you slowly unscrew things and you can take a look first before you start pointing out to the camera. The discovery process easily gets long. I know it's a high standard but 53 minutes is a reality. If you look for yourself first you are not prone to forget what the camera is seeing as much either.
I don't mind the length of vid, the extra chit chat along with the discovery process all makes to "being there". Not as if it's an instructional video......it's an adhoc teardown where the viewer gets to ride along. But yeah, opinions.....
I thought I sped-up most of the segments with me just removing screws, or some-such. If I left a segment realtime, it's probably because I was talking over it. FWIW, the original video was over 2 hours long, so i't pretty edited down already.
George Tsiros They don't, as if they did, you would not see the same annoying software design choice persist through multiple models after people have complained about them in older videos.But they will likely not know who is actually sending a scope in for RMA just from the video.
Razor2048 The serial number is on the video. If they are watching, I don't think taking the video down later would help, but I also doubt they have any systems in place to blacklist certain owners or serial numbers from RMA, as long as the sticker's in place if the tech gets it he'll try to repair it.
Shitty lead free solder is shitty. And CapXon caps were the cause of the failure of the PSU of a garbage picked TV I fixed a few years back, so don't trust them.
Love your PCB art! I've always been a fan of PCB/circuit trace/microscopic chip art. Great teardown and always enjoy your vids!
Great video. I always enjoy your teardowns.
I hope Rigol gets it fixed for you.
I love your description of the on-board spark gaps, Domo-Kun teeth. If only Rigol had the same style of pcb art as you, and he might have a body too :D
Good luck with the warranty! I am unsure if this scope is high enough end, but some have that glass screen purely as a shield - it's ITO glass. Thanks for another teardown, always appreciated!
I don't think it's emi shielding, as the actual electronics are well partitioned off from it.
Looking in the edge of the glass, it looks like typical greenish soda-lime window-glass, but then I've never handled ITO glass, so I wouldn't know it by sight.
Connor Wolf
ITO looks pretty much like glass, there's very little difference. It's a surface coating only. I believe the reason for it is that the transistors in the TFT are switching really fast and rhythmically, so can cause ringing. But I'm not an expert here :)
Very interesting. We're going to need an update to let us know if they gave you any warranty issues! ;)
There are a lot of fingerprints on the shielding of the inputs 4:40
Hi Connor I have the same scope same problem but resolved like this:
With all four channels on press Storage then Default
There is now a logic analyser version of this, so you were right at 5:30.
Great follow up video!
I was kind of hoping you'd make note of what markings/brand ect was on the encoders, that way you could find ones with detents :P
They look like pretty generic footprints. I suspect you can find replacements without too much trouble.
I ordered the normal version of this and Rigol shipped me the -S version by mistake... Rigol eventually let me keep it! :)
Hello
Good job. I love this explanations.
But i have a question too:
Does someone know where ibcan get a nem panel for this oszilloscopes? (DS1102Z-E)
I go a new one with broken LCD and i want try to repair it. All functions are working well but the handling, only by remote, is a little crap.
Thank you for reading and support.
Excuse me, What is the specification of the plum screwdriver with screw?
Your beard is too epic...
Excuse me, What is the size of the star screwdriver for tear down the Oscilloscope?
Very nice video, I'm just considering to buy this oscilloscope.
Have you solved the railed input/offset issue?
It's currently in for service.
It took way too long to get there because there was a three-way communication clusterfuck between the purchasing dept at work, Tequipment, and Rigol.
Sweet teardown! Not much to the internals these days. Looking at the footprint for the missing Logic Analyser BGA and it's SRAM-connection, i'd bet it's another Spartan 6-device.
I would assume the logic-analyzer would *probably* use the exact same FPGA. and DRAM. They do like their part-reuse. The DRAM is the same between the application processor and ADC FPGA as well.
I just got the logic analyzer version of this... the MSO1104Z. It's awesome. Although I haven't tried the logic analyzer portion yet, but will soon. I got the -S version with 2 function generators. I didn't see any missing places for that on the teardown. Would those be implemented in the FPGA?
So Lone Wolf, did Rigol fix it under warranty? Was it doing that before you took it apart?
Yeah, it's been back for a while and working fine. And it had the issue before I took it apart.
I need to make a follow-up, but laaaaazy.
Connor Wolf Hyxtryx i'm very curious if the waveform generator can be added afterwards? Can you get your hands on a S-Version?
Maybe that big chip located top-right of FPGA is some sort of arm u-controller because there is ARM-24MHz test point nearby :) And there is 10-pin header on right (JTAG?).
The big freescale part has an ARM core. That's what the clock is probably for.
If you have a decent canon DSLR, would you consider shooting in 1080p RAW? With firmware such as magic lantern, you can get similar dynamic range to a RED epic camera, and it only uses a miniscule 90-95MB/s (Megabytes per second ) (that is a lengthly 5.5 - 6 minutes per 32GB SD card).
You can then, with a little color grading and some tone mapping, you can get the movie "300" look
Is it bad that I've actually considered this? The man reason I don't shoot using my 5D2 is the lack of autofocus. I can't exactly be my own focus-puller while doing the teardown.
why everybody use Xilinx, and not Altera FPGA in test equipment ?
That is a bit puzzling me
pleez make vidio featbak hou u fix it ...? how rigol support work?
You could also heat up the sticker with a heat gun and then just peel it off
You broke it! ;)
It was like that when I got here! (/Shifty Eyes/)
Any word from Rigol yet?
I bought it through Tequipment.net, so I'll be hearing from them.
Also, I'm working through the purchasing dept at work, so everything will probably take 3 times as long as you would expect.
Gooooood
Loose guess, the spark teeth might be for lightning strikes.
Primary and Secondary windings have natural capacitance, and to prevent AC currents from traveling between the windings, SMPS designers usually add a 1-2KV Y Grade capacitor with a larger capacitance across the primary and secondary neutral-ground planes to redirect the parasitic currents... The problem is, sometimes the currents are not symmetrical and what you get is a net charge build up on this Y grade capacitor, which can charge up to several thousand volts so those teeth provide a safe discharge path.
This is of course a very unlikely scenario, but I have seen these teeth snap before under very power-noisy situations.
Thumbs up for Your Make Kitty Scared silkscreen
The ADC chip: Hittite HMCAD1511
www.hittite.com/products/view.html/view/HMCAD1511
Huh, I didn't even know Hittite made ADCs.
Neat to see, though!
Brilliant video until you revealed the crappy CapXon Caps....Epic Fail! I will be removing mine and fitting Panasonic ASAP. :-)
who's going to be the first to make an oscilloscope in tablet form..
Uh, tablet-oscilloscopes are already available.
They suck. You really need the knobs.
Connor Wolf Of course I don't. And while google reveals a chinese brand Micsig tablet oscilloscope which seems to do a lot right btw (tablet and isolated channels) then I see none from the known/available brands where it counts.
Of course you don't need the buttons. Think a little.
Connor Wolf
Really? For company I work for I ordered PicoScope 6404D and I freaking love it.
Really Rigol? CapXon?! I remember that name, and definitely not in a good way. I've taken caps of this brand out of serveral devices (monitors, PC PSUs, wallwart PSUs, even a mainboard) because they failed. Some of the devices didn't last longer than two years.
Eh, over at badcaps.net we call them "CrapXon"
Agreed, the number of the damn things I've pulled from IT equipment is beyond belief! All stuff less than 3 years old and all with failed(/ing) CrapXons in... ugh.
badcaps.net is a site founded to teach you and help you how to "recap" your device. They do that for living as a business. I wouldn't name them unbiased in that question, which capactitor is good which one bad and must be changed. And an other fact that electronics industry is changing. I remember when Samsung was a really crap undemanding cheap brand. It was really. Then few year later their displays (CRT) become better and more famous than Sony displays. Then they become one of the biggest consumer electronics firm in the world. Now they are not better than Sony, neither worse they can do similar quality.
Maybe that CapXon capacitor on the video is very crap quality. Maybe its an average not so good not so bad, but enough. And maybe its better than average, maybe its better than your Panasonic. People in electronics or in SW industry can't live in the past, these worlds are changing very-very quickly.
"Alcatel" ProASIC, and the "USB B" cutout, it's actually for the power switch. LOL Brainfart :D
I fail at wordz.
I expect that oscilloscope makers will soon go away from this elaborate multiboard metal box construction to a single board touch screen design with minimal buttons and smaller connectors. No need for those bnc sizes.
The board can be much smaller as well. Simpler, cleaner throughout.
I also hope they will start making isolated channels. Shared ground is rather limiting and dangerously misleading. Even though it means you need an ADC per channel and optic connections.
BNCs will never die. They're too omnipresent.
Good video, maybe edit and think it much shorter. No need to see you slowly unscrew things and you can take a look first before you start pointing out to the camera. The discovery process easily gets long. I know it's a high standard but 53 minutes is a reality. If you look for yourself first you are not prone to forget what the camera is seeing as much either.
I don't mind the length of vid, the extra chit chat along with the discovery process all makes to "being there". Not as if it's an instructional video......it's an adhoc teardown where the viewer gets to ride along. But yeah, opinions.....
IanScottJohnston Yeah it can work for some. I watch a 2-3hour show about electric cars every week.
I thought I sped-up most of the segments with me just removing screws, or some-such.
If I left a segment realtime, it's probably because I was talking over it.
FWIW, the original video was over 2 hours long, so i't pretty edited down already.
shi hui mmight be a refference to the pcb manufacturer -> google for "ShenZhen ShiHui Electronic Co. Ltd" click on the "glocalsources link".
if something happens to the scope and you want to return it to rigol for warranty make sure to remember to take down this video...
why? It says "waranty void if broken" not "waranty void if removed" :)
you can be sure rigol is watching these videos
George Tsiros
They don't, as if they did, you would not see the same annoying software design choice persist through multiple models after people have complained about them in older videos.But they will likely not know who is actually sending a scope in for RMA just from the video.
Razor2048
The serial number is on the video. If they are watching, I don't think taking the video down later would help, but I also doubt they have any systems in place to blacklist certain owners or serial numbers from RMA, as long as the sticker's in place if the tech gets it he'll try to repair it.
Shitty lead free solder is shitty.
And CapXon caps were the cause of the failure of the PSU of a garbage picked TV I fixed a few years back, so don't trust them.
very shit caps. best to change all and put japanes caps in. will def work better.