Udate: Someone pointed out the sampling is not 1 ghz as stated, so Investigated. This time the 62.5 mhz signal was correctly showing 62.5 mhz and not attenuated with just one trace shown. With two traces it thinks its 37.5 mhz. The aliasing 62.5 mhz to 37 mhz suggests a 100M sample rate in dual trace mode, and presumably 200M in single trace mode. But the 65 mhz signal was not attenuated this time. I was using a different scope probe. So bandwidth may not be as limited as I thought it was, it just doesn't like the Rigol scope probe.
One more benefit of the Fnirsi that wasn't mentioned: if you power it from a USB power bank you don't need to worry about ground loops on your probes. It seems like this product is straddling the line between a bench scope and a portable scope.
Yes, but this just saves Fnirsi the cost of a power supply on what's already an incredibly cheap product to manufacture. This is an old and pathetic product and it's long overdue for Fnirsi to offer a true replacement with much better performance. Buy the Rigol... or *anything* else, really.
You can do this with any scope, you just need to choose the right Powerbank. I use mine with an Allpower brand pureSine solar power bank. It's bigger, but lasts much longer, and I have 240VAC for up to 300W if needed. The disadvantage of Fnirsi is that it can only be used at low frequencies, its sampling speed and memory are not real. If you want a portable one, buy Micsig or Hantek. The Hantek TO1112 is pretty well priced. I'm not a fan of 3in1.
They have a capable Support. I had a Fnirsi PSU that broke and they instructed me on how to repair it instead of just trashing the old one and replacing it.
Unfortunately, the quality of the support is very poor, I'm glad they helped you, but I'm crying now because the DPOX180H hasn't received any update for almost a year, even though it has a lot of problems. And the 2C53P is a total nightmare, the same crap just like the 1013D/1014D is. only praised by those who can't do anything in agony. Like my friend, he bought a Peugeot 30?RC on loan a long time ago, at 3x the price due to the loan, and since then he has spent 6x the normal price of the car on it, because a lot of things in it were ruined. 3 or 4 Engine replacements, 2 barrel replacements, 4 electronics replacements. And he still praises how good the car is...🤣
@@madigorfkgoogle9349 Bad driver and bad technical design.😉 Italian and French engine and electronics design is very bad. I didn't exchange my Japanese car for a new one, because the latest one already has an Italian engine if I remember correctly. I know a little about things.😉 The guy likes to go fast, to compete and he cooked the engine a couple of times, it was cheaper to replace than to repair... If I remember correctly, on one occasion the cooling was not switched on and the electronics did not regulate the engine. The other time, the cause was bleeding in the ignition, I don't remember exactly, but it was something like the spark missing several times at high rpm, the injector was open for too long and the system was filled with gasoline, I don't know exactly anymore. but the engine was also badly damaged there. The first time something broke in the engine, a quality defect, maybe the crankshaft.🤔 It should also be added that here in Hungary, the fuel is of very poor quality, additives are added that cause the car to consume more fuel, the emitted smoke is more harmful, and the performance of the car weakens. I know because there were times when I used fuel available in the surrounding countries and, for example, with German and Croatian fuel, the car ran cleaner and I was able to cover 30-40% more distance with it at home...😱 It is in the government's interest that the masses buy as much fuel as possible, and they achieve this with as many techniques as possible... Like generated traffic jams, poor quality fuel.🤣 If someone makes some kind of decree elsewhere, they always complain about it at home and make a worse decision. For example, with a car license you can use a small motorbike, but only up to 50cc. the next category requires a motorcycle license up to 125cc, which costs almost as much as a large motorbike...🤣
@@azyfloof I don't know what size the DS1202Z-E takes, but so many people with the much older DS1052E used the Noctua NF-A6x25 FLX, Premium Quiet Fan, 3-Pin (60mm, Brown). Got mine from Amazon.
Probes can affect the observed bandwidth of an oscilloscope. They also have to be matched to the input characteristics of the scope. The proper way to check a scope's bandwidth is to use a signal generator that has a 50Ω output, a 50Ω coaxial cable, and a 50Ω termination at the input of the oscilloscope.
Those 6-random-character-brands always seem to deliver the quality paid for: Not all that much beyond absolute minimum I would also love a look inside that cheap scope
Fnirsi is a step below Hantek, who are a step below Uni-T. But these Chinesium brands are putting downward pressure on oscilloscopes, including Siglent and Rigol putting scopes within reach compared to TekTronix and Keysight. There’s not really that much to any of these scopes either. It’s the low order volume of hobbyists and professionals that keeps them artificially expensive. I’m looking forward to Raspberry Pi / Pico open-source hardware clones of any of these scopes Chinese scopes. Same way that someone made a $100 open-source logic analyzer for the Rigol that does the exact same thing as their $600 accessory.
Thanks. The text list of "cons" (about 14:10) is an excellent summary that should be standardized for all YT electronics device reviewers ... with accompanying "pros" AND linked for download to viewer!
I have one. While it is not "top of line" i prefer it to my rigol. Easier to use, lighter, no noise. For the price, the Fnirsi is a very good device with good sampling frequency. Mine developed calibration issues because of defect TL432 voltge regulator. Bought the similar priced PeakTech1400 to replace it, but the Fnirsi is way faster and has function gen. so i fixed it.
I can see myself using the Fnirsi here and there if its away from the workbench and I know its something within its capabilities. And its so light, I imagine it won't get seriously damaged if I were to drop it.
Very nice comparison! The Fnirsi definitely has a place on the market, and when I bought my scope I was tempted to go for a similar priced chinese scope. But they do have their limitations and weird flukes, and in the end you just want an honest scope not leaving you puzzled with 'whats the heck is this?'. That's where the toys separate from the tools I guess.. I'm so happy I did buy exactly the same Rigol scope as Matthias shows in this video. It will last a life time I hope 😎, so that extra money is well spent.
Nice! I already have the 4-Ch Rigol for some years and yes.. the fan is loud ;-) Today I would be interested in the Fnirsi, because this would fit my needs very well!
@@matthiasrandomstuff2221 It was a half jokey comment, kindov meant seriously. Your in depth person experience reviews are exactly what the potential product buyers for this kind of product are looking for, warts and all. Without glitz or glamour, just the facts, backed up with evidence. A product supplier would have to have real confidence in their product for those kind of reviews, and those are the products I'm interested in.
The fact that it can retrigger again relatively quickly is arguably a good thing - that's how its able to catch infrequent events. Closely related to what's advertised as waveforms/sec.
The solution is to set the time base to 10ms/Div? Then the whole sign will fit in and you can zoom in on it. Instead of Rigol DHO, it is better to wink half of Siglent, it offers more at a similar price. I say this as the owner of Rigol DHO924s.🤣
@@juhaszpeter4796 Yeah, I've got the Siglent and, while its a bit more expensive than the Rigol, it has a much better sample rate and memory depth. UI is very responsive - quite nice. The Web UI is great too. I got the 4 channel version because I think that's essential for alot of the things you need a scope for (SPI is one example). Something Dave Jones from EEVBLOG agrees with - don't get a 2 channel scope these days, spend a little more and get the 4 channel.
One channel that has actually helped me develop my woodworking skills. Youre a rare resource. I appreciate your level of problem solving and clever solutions with just shaping and design and mechanics. You and epicupcylcing are making men better woodworkers and diyers! Thank you!
I just got it for my summer home. I liked the scope + function generator combo. I should have gone for the Hantech DSO2D10 (upgradable via software) but it was $80 more and I couldn't justify buying it when I don't need the higher specs.
I'm reminded of This Old Tony's recommendation on Mini-Lathes. To paraphrase: they're not great, they need some work from the user (replacing the power adapter in this case), and they have strict limitations you need to adhere to, but they're better than no lathe at all. I probably would have bought one of these if they were around when I was a student and couldn't afford the $400 scopes.
10:11 thats the reason scopes usually come with their own PSU. It sucks not being able to trust the scope till you found out if you can even trust the psu.
Bit I want to know is how good are the USB powerbanks it ran off are for it - at least as a rough guideline - as a relatively small light and good enough to be useful scope you can power in field etc has some merit, but ifs going to not handle the buck/boost of the powerbank well that could really ruin it for that application.
@@matthiasrandomstuff2221 I think that's how you accidentally killed one of those battery/inverter-things, if I remember correctly! I'm quite impressed by the company telling you to publish your video without reviewing it. Cheers!
You could even string batteries together to get the 5V without any type of ripple whatsoever, but that would kinda be getting a bit into the weeds. NiMH cells run around 1.2V, so a battery pack with four of those would fit the bill for very stable isolated power.
@@microwave221 Wouldn't a powerbank already do that, as long as you're far away from any noisy electronics? Or does the cheap voltage booster in those powerbanks also generate noise? (I'm still waiting to afford my first scope to be able to test stuff like that)
@@lancealderman2755I get it. Matthias is better than most at providing useful info, but impossible-to-pronounce Chinese tat has taken over all the channels I watch to see craftspeople crafting. Pro-tip: buy a used scope for $300. Better for the environment, almost certainly better for your own lab. You can get an Analog Discovery for $300 and get mixed signal and advanced triggering.
Great review, thank you. With those noise issues, I would be tempted to build a linear power supply: 1 Amp @ 5 VDC = 5 Watts, so make it about from 1.5 to 2 Amps DC and it should work fine.
I don't know if you can call them a brave company for sending out a unit for review, I'm guessing they're firing a barrage of units out and crossing their fingers that a few land on some easy-to-impress TH-camrs 🙂
I have that exact Fnirsi scope! it's my first scope and I'm still learning a lot of stuff about electrical engineering, so for my purposes it's plenty enough I think
One thing you gotta hand to these Chinese manufacturers: they have really nailed how to interact with influencers and reviewers. Not just here, but in every market they enter. For example, I am a watercolor enthusiast, and in the watercolor world there are a few brands that are top quality (M. Graham, Qor, Daniel Smith, Winsor & Newton, etc.) Good luck getting free materials from these guys! Meanwhile, TH-cam artists get bombarded with garbage Chinese art materials, it gets to the point where that's all they feature. And if you DO somehow get materials from the big manufacturers, they're not going to be thrilled with negative reviews or comparisons, and that may be the last time you ever get anything from them. So, ultimately, the end result is that the market gets flooded with crappy Chinese products, which gains market share at the expense of established, and higher quality manufacturers.
What makes the chinese more enjoyable to work with is that it seems like they don't know ho to do marketing, so they give people a lot more freedom than north american companies with their prescribed talking points. But as you point out, this may be a deliberate strategy on their part.
@@matthiasrandomstuff2221 Over in China the market is hyper-aggressive, because there's essentially no IP protection. So if you make a product, any other manufacturer can just rip you off, make magnitudes more than you, flood the market with product, and take ads everywhere, and push you right out of the market. So naturally, if you take a company from that environment and bring them here, it's easy pickings. I would argue that their marketing strategy of sending free materials to anyone with enough of an audience who fancies themselves a reviewer is actually very clever. It doesn't matter if the review is positive or negative, they are the sole point of discussion. Furthermore, because in most instances nowadays there is no longer a journalistic separation between the reviewer and the corporate liason, the reviews will naturally trend positively anyways. So ultimately, they have discovered that instead of paying for sponsored content, they can save money and get a similar result for just the cost of goods, which, being Chinese junk, is not very much.
The sampling is 200M in single trace mode. 👍 Obviously it is very limited, but it is enough for many applications. In your country, the Rigol in your comparison may be "only" 2x the cost, but here in Brazil, the cost difference for this Rigol is more than 5x.
Regardless of if all measurements are initiated correctly or not, what you ran into was what every beginner would run into and stumble over. Especially if you start the hobby and stick to cheap tools, either because you are unsure if it is the right hobby or you cannot afford the big brands, you will end up chasing faults that don't exist but are only ghosting on your meter screens and displays. In this case it is only double the price but 10 times the fun. These simpler reviews are very important and helpful to much more people compared to the high price gear comparison with lots of tech words, at least in my eyes. Words from a guy with the shelf full of R&S, Agilent and all this high price gear ;)
I myself am just an intermediate hobbyist... and I have to agree: if you have an open mind, a cheap digital scope will eventually make you aware / watch out for the typical side-effects of having too short a buffer, not enough sampling rate, not enough bandwidth and own ringing (impedance mismatch) in your probes, various signs of aliasing...
@xrysf03 actually I learned a lot when starting with an analog Philips scope before proceeding to digital samplers. Lucky me my dad had some real Agilent scopes in the company which I was allowed to use. And later I got the same unit from eBay for cheap. I still use it today, ken three of them including the one from my dad's company I used. And a 60MHz two beam 4 channel Yokogawa.
The rigol simulates persistence of vision when zooming out the trace, it interpolates/blends with all of the data while the fnirsi just takes less samples. The rigol probably also has an option to delay retriggering. My rigol ds1054z has it. I use it exactly for that reason. It also has trigger options to trigger on the x occurance for video signals for example to trigger on frames or lines (needs a sync signal though). Another advantage the fnirsi of being able to power from a battery pack is that the ground reference is decoupled from mains, so it's safer to use on mains powered devices if you touch a high voltage rail with the ground lead of the scope. The rigol would show a few sparks and trip the breaker.
You probably could just use a 3 prong to 2 prong plug adapter for that, sacrificing some noise rejection I'd suppose, but that's an acceptable trade off for not blowing sht up lol.
I suspect some of the limitations on the Rigol (and other high-ish-end scopes) are deliberate, to force people to buy the models with (or in some cases just the license to unlock) features like digital signal decoding, etc..
Nice review. Some Rigols can be bought with signal generator. I bought the 4 ch 100MHz 1104Z Rigol a few years ago and no regrets. Even has a port for 8 channel logic analyzer pod. Don't too often need 4 ch, but handy when I do need them. How the waveform was displayed when you had the Fnirsi scope connected to your pico-pi and it was changing between freqs, was quite odd.
I am thinking on two things now, 1 i will try to connect to ground and 2 calibrate the probe. On the underside of the connector of the probe there is a small screw where you can calibrate the probe with. The P6100 mention it in the manual, but i didn't found out yet how to do it with the Fnirsi-1014D.
Thanks a lot for the video. The info is clear and straightforward. I have a plan to buy the Fnirsi-1014D. I need to use it to tune two LC tank circuits in a metal detector project. I would think Fnirsi-1014D works fine with a few hundred KHz, right? In this case, would Fnirsi do the job quite well same as Rigol?
I love those keymashed Chinese brands Notice how F,R,S are basically left hand, rest position N,I, right hand, rest position. Possible other brand names: finrs sirnf fsnir seinf gnris sgrin frsni isnf cvnris srgin nisf sdrgni fniser sgin seignk dksng snfgie skdfgn
This is not a throwaway Amazon brand printed on products to avoid responsibilities, the company actually operates under that name in China. "Shenzhen Finiris Technology Co., Ltd", maybe the name makes sense in Chinese, but maybe it just sounded cool to them
I purchased this for one purpose. I want to be able to take it into the field and watch the output of metal detectors. Battery power and FFT is worth the price. No earth ground it nice for waveforms on the hot-side of broken SMPS supplies.
I don't think the night vision thing would be interesting enough to warrant a video. if it was a thermal site, or passive night vision yes, but the consumer ones are essentially a near infrared flashlight plus near infrared camera
I looked into Apple counterfeit products on ebay a couple of years back. Just for personal interest. It turned out the weight mattered. The Apple device had a ferrite choke or transformer on it, which accounted for the weight difference. An esoteric, but interesting piece of ephemera, I thought. Now, one of the greats comes along, and confirms, it DOES matter. Still using the Apple charger from my iPad 2. (Or was it a One?)
Cheap stuff sometimes has weights inside of it to make it feel more premium. Diodegonewild did a teardown of a cheap PSU with a weight in it and it's hilarious. It's just double sided taped over the circuit board and waiting to fall onto everything and short it all out.
Hi Matthias, I have this FNIRSI oscilloscope and it really bothers me that even though it has a FFT capability, it doesn’t provide any information, so you can’t even see the frequency axis, which makes any analysis very difficult. Also, the function generator has an amplitude of 2.5V that cannot be adjusted, which is not ideal to use as input for other applications. Thanks for the video!
Oh, hadn't played around with the function generator that much, indeed, lack of amplitude adjustment is kind of silly, even the scope meter could do that. But using the pi pico as a signal generator worked great and I might do more of that in the future.
If I were to hazard a guess, based on the 20+MHz behaviour, especially the 65MHz behaviour at around 13:00, the sampling rate is about 100MHz, not the bandwidth. FOr those wondering about similar part numbers, much of the industry took the cue from Tek (I think they were first) in coding bandwidth and channel count into the model number. Or, if my suspicion is correct here, sample rate and channel count. I would be curious about the results of probing the A/D clock.
I made one of these a couple of years ago, they are very cool for low frequency aplications, and very cheap to make. The one from Rod Elliot is very cool and easy to assembly...
25 years ago at my old job, I used the sound card as a streaming A/D converter, hooked up to a scanner, to decode Mobitex digital wireless. Problem with sound cards is they are all AC coupled, and gain is relatively unknown. A pi pico is much more suitable.
@@matthiasrandomstuff2221 oh thanks for the info, I plan to play around with hardware hacking after I finish my degree. So it will be very useful while I'm starting out.
Ok for 2 channel up to 20 kHz maybe 30 kHz. But you have no actual voltage scale without calibrating it and likely only 1.5V MAX input and need 10x or 100x probes to be slightly usable. Some times it's acceptable. You can have it as app on phones also but you might burn your phone 😅 But just using the microphone itself for sounds it has some coole neat applications
apparently a sound card can be used as an interface for a few different things. i saw one where a guy made a video game controller and hooked it up through the sound card. i guess that's a good solution if your device can't communicate with usb properly
Recently I had considered the Fnirsi because of the USB powered ability, but decided against because I wanted some other features and opted for a 4 channel Rigol. For the portability issues, I purchased a small Jackery that I can plug the new scope into and almost all of my others as well.
Now I am waiting for Matthias to design his own replacement guts to go inside the Fnirsi's case but that works to his specs and just re-uses its screen and knobs...
Granted the FINIRSI has sample buffer issues and max frequency capabilities. But at the price point and for most use cases it is quite satisfactory. The signal generator is it's forte. You can open up the FINIRSI and install a USB power bank and make it a very portable unit, it is best to run it off of batteries. In my opinion the FINIRSI is the best economical choice.
I have a transistor tester with built in 3.7V battery and one with external 9V battery. One with 9V battery is better, because it uses higher voltage for tests. For example, it gives me accurate reading when I test 5V zener diode.
Reminds me of the time back in the early 2010's when the manager of the place where I was working decided to buy a few Owon scopes. 3 months later he was cursing in the lab. "This triggering function doesn't work right!... The FFT doesn't work right!" ... Another engineer piped in "You know, they sell an upgrade that fixes all the problems with that unit. It puts a Tektronix logo on it." Nowadays, the Rigol scopes are actually decent quality and tend to work correctly, although it wasn't like that at first.
I recognize the “operating system” on the frsni from much smaller, cheap and portable scopes, which are not worth the trouble. I was validated that you also found the “zoom affects the trigger voltage” behavior weird and bad. I thought I was going crazy.
13:18 did you use the same scope probe to measure the bandwidth on the Rigol and FNIRSI, and adjust the probe's capacitance with a square wave at the tip? The measurement bandwidth is limited by the product of the scope and probe's bandwidth. If the scope has a 100MHz 3dB bandwidth and the probe has a 100 MHz 3 dB bandwidth, then together they will be 6 dB down at 100MHz. Depending on the roll off rate of each, you may realize a 3dB measurement bandwidth below 50MHz with that combination. That said, I wouldn't be surprised if these cheap scopes well underperform against the stated specification. I expect these 2 channel 8-bit scopes will get cheaper and cheaper as 4-channel 12-bit scopes are now aggressively priced below $500USD.
Not sure if I’d trust such an inexpensive scope but I do have a question: Is the scope’s ground floating or tied to neutral? I see that’s it’s using a USB brick without the ground pin. Might be a cheap solution to run off a battery brick and have an isolated scope for AC troubleshooting.
its floating. Yes, running it off a power bank is an attractive option. I just need to buy a real power bank that can power it for more than twenty minutes.
The one thing I was looking for in a scope is to be able to measure signals on mains without the need of expensive differential probes. The FNIRSI allows for measurements up to 400V using 10x probe and even higher if you use the included 100x high voltage probe. My hesitation is for purchasing are the things you pointed out about sample sizes and storage depth. Any suggestions for a scope with mains measurement capabilities without expensive differential probes?
The hanmatek scope I reviewed can also run off a power bank, but it uses 8 watts, so needs a bigger power bank. Also, if you take something like the rigol scope and disconnect the ground lead, its also floating.
@@matthiasrandomstuff2221 Thank you sir for responding to my question. I agree that on a Rigol or others the ground disconnected. But Rigol, for example, says that the scope can not measure mains. I assume it is because of the internal circuitry, regardless if the ground is disconnected. FNIRSI explicitly says you can use the scope to measure mains with certain provisos as I previously mentioned. Would it be a correct assumption that any scope that is power by an isolated from mains power supply like USB -C DC power source that you can use it to measure mains? It would be interesting if you could do a video on this. Thanks again for the response.
When you triggered on the short digital stream on the Rigol, it sounded like the Rigol did not do single shot. In single shot mode, it should not retrigger without a manual rearming. Does Rigol not have this ability or does it not work?
Bought one a few years ago and basically trashed it in the same day. You just can't trust ANYTHING it measures. Sad to see how FNIRSI hasn't changed anything about the 1014D. It's been out for many years, is still for sale today and it's still the same (crap) as it was when it was released. It would have been a great scope.
in Canada is 250CAD+ Tax. On Rigol website, an DS1102Z-E entry level is 279+ tax+ shipping. Not even considering it, but I will like to see a teardown.
@@matthiasrandomstuff2221 It is in Cad, but they changed to 382 CAD, clearance, so you are right. Last year half of my Ali express items didn't arrive, so I am done with them.
Fnirsi must have learned from the EcoFlow review saga in that even a critical Mathias review of a product doesn’t necessarily translate to poor product reception.
I still think these very limited scopes are quite useful, since a lot of the time when I need a scope, I really just need a voltmeter with a bit of history. But anything that actually requires a scope, they tend to struggle with. I do wish they'd just list the specs properly though.
At work I have a Tektronix from 1997 (it has a 3.5" floppy drive for copying off screenshots!) and it also has that same issue with low frequency aliasing . Recently I was using it to compare phases of two 10MHz references (1v p-p sine waves) but when I first turned it on, I was set way to low on the horizontal and it actually showed a sine wave, but I couldn't get the trigger to lock! That is, until I realized the error and clicked it up to a much higher frequency. Funny thing is, while this old scope has its problems, it's kind of like an old jalopy: I'm now familiar with its quirks, and kind of like it. (I didn't turn down the brand new Keysight MSO they offered me recently, though!)
The osciloscope and the signal generator use the same crystal oscilator hence the consistent aliasing. Use only one at a time and everything should be fine.
That is a surprisingly good looking scope, at least for the price at least based on the last time I was looking to get a scope. That said I'd rather get an actually genuinely good scope or use something like a Pico/Arduinio when the requirements are in that sort of range than pay that much for a scope that isn't all that great. It doesn't seem to be quite good enough value to temp me with the needs I have right now anyway.
Some other issues with the 1014D that wheren't mentioned: The signal generator has no offset adjustment, it is always symetric to the ground. So, it is difficult to use it with single-supply circuits or digital circuits (you will have to make your own offset circuit). There are some other weird ground problems with those units. When you try to measure high voltages (200V-500V) with DC coupling (using 100x probes), there is some offset problem in the signals. Tried to use isolation transformer, or even battery power the scope, and it just doesn't work well. Issues mentioned that need to be highlited: 50mV/div maximum sensitivity!!! The sample rate is NOT 1Gs/s, not even close! I would say it is not a starters scope, as you need a lot of undestanding of its limitations to extract some usefull information from its readings. It is not an scope for experts, obviously, as it can't show most of what an expert wants to see... Few possible usages for it: basic didatics, and basic testing stations (let's say, for signals 1Vpp)...
I'm concerned in this comparison that you may be overlooking some of the more advanced controls that are typically found on most scopes. I don't know if these scopes have them. I consider this video a comparison of discount scopes. :shrug: As an example, 5:40, scopes usually have a control for trigger delay. This is a delay imposed after triggering to prevent the next trigger from happening before desired. It should probably be called retrigger delay, but here we are. This issue where a follow up pulse retriggers the Rigol and spoils the desired pulse from being displayed can be compensated with a little (re)trigger delay, if so equipped. The Fnirsi naturally imposes a delay that happens to be long enough to prevent spoilage, in this particular case it's a blessing, but I wouldn't count it as a performance win. The Rigol, that you would have to slow down with a trigger delay adjustment (if so equipped) would be the performance winner, I would think. 13:30 Scopes commonly have a 20MHz filter and some have this on by default. Perhaps check the input channel menu to see whether this is engaged? This might explain how a scope seems limited to 20MHz while its marketing claims are of much higher bandwidth.
The video title suggests your comparing the pros and cons of each oscilloscope, but I guess the video content suggests your qualifying the new scope against the old, in this might explain why you didn't go into details of a feature on the Rigol.
I appreciate your investigations a lot! Can you conjure up a way to test the moisture meter too? It can't possibly be great at $27, but I'd love to know how okayish it is (ordered it anyway). I can't even begin to think of how to test it aside from just using three moisture meters?
These things are all more relative than absolute, I'd say. I have a Wagner MMC220 contactless one I got ages ago (sponsored). I don't use it very often though. A caveat with that one is that it doesn't measure very deep.
does powering the scope through a power bank eliminate the ground noise? because you didn't really go at length testing the accuracy with and without ect. but it's guaranteed to be more accurate without noise at the source. even if it was only very obvious when it was ground looped back through the second scope. I don't think it changes your conclusion either way. there's a big gap between people whit projects that are served perfectly well with just a multimeter and people who will use a scope.
The irritating thing about most scopes is that you only get the basic functionality. You have to buy additional licenses to "unlock" functionality that is already present inside the scope. So it looks nice, cheap and flashy when you see it in the shop but that is just the shell. NO THANKS! Most times you end up paying 3-5 times the original price to unlock the functionality THEY KNOW you need. But you don't realize it before it is too late.
I like an honest review. These kind of cheap scopes are good for field work and stuff. A 4 chan o-scope 100MHz is about $1000 and that wasn't the case before. Costa a Kilo-Buck LOL
Do you recommend this fnirsi scope? I've been doing electronics for about 4 years but never got to trouble shoot my circuits in detail with an scope Im more interested into getting one since i will start building guitar pedals and Boosters Obviously i cant afford a Rigol or a Keysight.
Udate:
Someone pointed out the sampling is not 1 ghz as stated, so Investigated. This time the 62.5 mhz signal was correctly showing 62.5 mhz and not attenuated with just one trace shown. With two traces it thinks its 37.5 mhz. The aliasing 62.5 mhz to 37 mhz suggests a 100M sample rate in dual trace mode, and presumably 200M in single trace mode. But the 65 mhz signal was not attenuated this time. I was using a different scope probe. So bandwidth may not be as limited as I thought it was, it just doesn't like the Rigol scope probe.
I enjoyed your full review and you pointing out the further checks in your videos.
Probably 1GHz in this high sweep speed cases….but would require a TON of memory if you are set to 1 millisecond per division.
One reason I trust this channel on product reviews is that there really is full disclosure including the email correspondence with the company.
One more benefit of the Fnirsi that wasn't mentioned: if you power it from a USB power bank you don't need to worry about ground loops on your probes. It seems like this product is straddling the line between a bench scope and a portable scope.
indeed. Compared to a scope meter it's great. But a bit pricey compared to scope meters
I agree,
I don't know whats going on
Yes, but this just saves Fnirsi the cost of a power supply on what's already an incredibly cheap product to manufacture. This is an old and pathetic product and it's long overdue for Fnirsi to offer a true replacement with much better performance. Buy the Rigol... or *anything* else, really.
@@antibrevity the thing with these cheap chines products is they save money everywhere, including on the engineering effort.
You can do this with any scope, you just need to choose the right Powerbank. I use mine with an Allpower brand pureSine solar power bank.
It's bigger, but lasts much longer, and I have 240VAC for up to 300W if needed.
The disadvantage of Fnirsi is that it can only be used at low frequencies, its sampling speed and memory are not real.
If you want a portable one, buy Micsig or Hantek.
The Hantek TO1112 is pretty well priced.
I'm not a fan of 3in1.
They have a capable Support. I had a Fnirsi PSU that broke and they instructed me on how to repair it instead of just trashing the old one and replacing it.
Did not expect that, kudoos to Fnirsi!
That is something you like to hear!
At least if this is not an issue on every other product..
Unfortunately, the quality of the support is very poor, I'm glad they helped you, but I'm crying now because the DPOX180H hasn't received any update for almost a year, even though it has a lot of problems.
And the 2C53P is a total nightmare, the same crap just like the 1013D/1014D is. only praised by those who can't do anything in agony.
Like my friend, he bought a Peugeot 30?RC on loan a long time ago, at 3x the price due to the loan, and since then he has spent 6x the normal price of the car on it, because a lot of things in it were ruined.
3 or 4 Engine replacements, 2 barrel replacements, 4 electronics replacements.
And he still praises how good the car is...🤣
@@juhaszpeter4796 3 or 4 engine replacements? Very bad driver and/or very neglected maintenance.
@@madigorfkgoogle9349
Bad driver and bad technical design.😉
Italian and French engine and electronics design is very bad.
I didn't exchange my Japanese car for a new one, because the latest one already has an Italian engine if I remember correctly.
I know a little about things.😉
The guy likes to go fast, to compete and he cooked the engine a couple of times, it was cheaper to replace than to repair...
If I remember correctly, on one occasion the cooling was not switched on and the electronics did not regulate the engine.
The other time, the cause was bleeding in the ignition, I don't remember exactly, but it was something like the spark missing several times at high rpm, the injector was open for too long and the system was filled with gasoline, I don't know exactly anymore. but the engine was also badly damaged there.
The first time something broke in the engine, a quality defect, maybe the crankshaft.🤔
It should also be added that here in Hungary, the fuel is of very poor quality, additives are added that cause the car to consume more fuel, the emitted smoke is more harmful, and the performance of the car weakens.
I know because there were times when I used fuel available in the surrounding countries and, for example, with German and Croatian fuel, the car ran cleaner and I was able to cover 30-40% more distance with it at home...😱
It is in the government's interest that the masses buy as much fuel as possible, and they achieve this with as many techniques as possible...
Like generated traffic jams, poor quality fuel.🤣
If someone makes some kind of decree elsewhere, they always complain about it at home and make a worse decision.
For example, with a car license you can use a small motorbike, but only up to 50cc. the next category requires a motorcycle license up to 125cc, which costs almost as much as a large motorbike...🤣
Excellent a/b comparison. Good job on explaining the "digital " zoom artifacts on the zoom in. 👍
It's not the first time I've come across this brand on youtube, but they're pretty cool about letting reviewers say their piece.
A lot of people replace the Rigol fan. I used a Noctua Premium Quiet and can barely hear it now.
It's a standard off-the-shelf fan size? That's handy! Might have to try this
@@azyfloof I don't know what size the DS1202Z-E takes, but so many people with the much older DS1052E used the Noctua NF-A6x25 FLX, Premium Quiet Fan, 3-Pin (60mm, Brown). Got mine from Amazon.
Replacing does not fix the problem. It only makes it slightly less annoying.
@@mk6595 I have the DS1054z. I may have to open it up and have a peek inside. Actually surprised I've not done that yet :P
@@mk6595 Thanks! I have the DS1052E
Really enjoy your in-depth reviews of this kind of equipment.
This guy is so cool. His wood work is crazy impressive.
Keen to see how useful the bridge tweezers are. It was interesting to see the shortcuts which Fnirsi have taken.
Probes can affect the observed bandwidth of an oscilloscope. They also have to be matched to the input characteristics of the scope. The proper way to check a scope's bandwidth is to use a signal generator that has a 50Ω output, a 50Ω coaxial cable, and a 50Ω termination at the input of the oscilloscope.
Those 6-random-character-brands always seem to deliver the quality paid for: Not all that much beyond absolute minimum
I would also love a look inside that cheap scope
Fnirsi is a step below Hantek, who are a step below Uni-T. But these Chinesium brands are putting downward pressure on oscilloscopes, including Siglent and Rigol putting scopes within reach compared to TekTronix and Keysight. There’s not really that much to any of these scopes either. It’s the low order volume of hobbyists and professionals that keeps them artificially expensive. I’m looking forward to Raspberry Pi / Pico open-source hardware clones of any of these scopes Chinese scopes. Same way that someone made a $100 open-source logic analyzer for the Rigol that does the exact same thing as their $600 accessory.
always making great videos Matthias! Thanks for this.
Thanks.
The text list of "cons" (about 14:10) is an excellent summary that should be standardized for all YT electronics device reviewers ... with accompanying "pros" AND linked for download to viewer!
I have been in the market for a modern scope but nothing too flash for a while, both of these have been on my radar. Thanks for the comparison.
I have one. While it is not "top of line" i prefer it to my rigol. Easier to use, lighter, no noise.
For the price, the Fnirsi is a very good device with good sampling frequency.
Mine developed calibration issues because of defect TL432 voltge regulator. Bought the similar priced PeakTech1400 to replace it, but the Fnirsi is way faster and has function gen. so i fixed it.
I can see myself using the Fnirsi here and there if its away from the workbench and I know its something within its capabilities. And its so light, I imagine it won't get seriously damaged if I were to drop it.
Very nice comparison! The Fnirsi definitely has a place on the market, and when I bought my scope I was tempted to go for a similar priced chinese scope. But they do have their limitations and weird flukes, and in the end you just want an honest scope not leaving you puzzled with 'whats the heck is this?'. That's where the toys separate from the tools I guess..
I'm so happy I did buy exactly the same Rigol scope as Matthias shows in this video. It will last a life time I hope 😎, so that extra money is well spent.
Really interesting indeed! Thanks a bunch for the review, Matthias! 😃
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
Nice! I already have the 4-Ch Rigol for some years and yes.. the fan is loud ;-) Today I would be interested in the Fnirsi, because this would fit my needs very well!
Thank you for this thoughtful review. It does look like something I may purchase for less critical and mobile troubleshooting.
You should do more of these produce reviews mate, you're good at it! ;-) :)
Tempting, depends on how the videos will do. Tempting to buy more cheap scopes to test, but the videos have to at least earn the cost of the scope.
@@matthiasrandomstuff2221 It was a half jokey comment, kindov meant seriously.
Your in depth person experience reviews are exactly what the potential product buyers for this kind of product are looking for, warts and all. Without glitz or glamour, just the facts, backed up with evidence.
A product supplier would have to have real confidence in their product for those kind of reviews, and those are the products I'm interested in.
Rigol DHO series are unbelievably good value scopes. The retrigger issue isn't an issue... look into "trigger holdoff"
The fact that it can retrigger again relatively quickly is arguably a good thing - that's how its able to catch infrequent events. Closely related to what's advertised as waveforms/sec.
@@ccoder4953 yep.
Or just use single trigger.
The solution is to set the time base to 10ms/Div?
Then the whole sign will fit in and you can zoom in on it.
Instead of Rigol DHO, it is better to wink half of Siglent, it offers more at a similar price.
I say this as the owner of Rigol DHO924s.🤣
@@juhaszpeter4796 Yeah, I've got the Siglent and, while its a bit more expensive than the Rigol, it has a much better sample rate and memory depth. UI is very responsive - quite nice. The Web UI is great too. I got the 4 channel version because I think that's essential for alot of the things you need a scope for (SPI is one example). Something Dave Jones from EEVBLOG agrees with - don't get a 2 channel scope these days, spend a little more and get the 4 channel.
One channel that has actually helped me develop my woodworking skills. Youre a rare resource. I appreciate your level of problem solving and clever solutions with just shaping and design and mechanics.
You and epicupcylcing are making men better woodworkers and diyers!
Thank you!
I just got it for my summer home. I liked the scope + function generator combo. I should have gone for the Hantech DSO2D10 (upgradable via software) but it was $80 more and I couldn't justify buying it when I don't need the higher specs.
I have no idea what I just watched...... But I watched it all
🤣
Matthias has that effect, he's so thorough you know it, even if you don't know a scintilla about what 'it' is.
Me too 🤣
Yes! We've caught another victim for indoctrination!
Fair review, thanks Mattias!
I'm reminded of This Old Tony's recommendation on Mini-Lathes. To paraphrase: they're not great, they need some work from the user (replacing the power adapter in this case), and they have strict limitations you need to adhere to, but they're better than no lathe at all.
I probably would have bought one of these if they were around when I was a student and couldn't afford the $400 scopes.
The Rigol is a fairly serious scope, and I'd say at twice the price still a better deal than the Fnirsi.
10:11 thats the reason scopes usually come with their own PSU.
It sucks not being able to trust the scope till you found out if you can even trust the psu.
but benig able to run it off a battery from time to time can be handy. Scope ground tied to earth ground can be a problem
Bit I want to know is how good are the USB powerbanks it ran off are for it - at least as a rough guideline - as a relatively small light and good enough to be useful scope you can power in field etc has some merit, but ifs going to not handle the buck/boost of the powerbank well that could really ruin it for that application.
@@matthiasrandomstuff2221 I think that's how you accidentally killed one of those battery/inverter-things, if I remember correctly!
I'm quite impressed by the company telling you to publish your video without reviewing it. Cheers!
You could even string batteries together to get the 5V without any type of ripple whatsoever, but that would kinda be getting a bit into the weeds. NiMH cells run around 1.2V, so a battery pack with four of those would fit the bill for very stable isolated power.
@@microwave221 Wouldn't a powerbank already do that, as long as you're far away from any noisy electronics? Or does the cheap voltage booster in those powerbanks also generate noise? (I'm still waiting to afford my first scope to be able to test stuff like that)
TH-cam is becoming the Home Shopping Network for nerds.
90% of me loves your comment and then 10% of me wants to take it personally 😅
@@lancealderman2755I get it. Matthias is better than most at providing useful info, but impossible-to-pronounce Chinese tat has taken over all the channels I watch to see craftspeople crafting.
Pro-tip: buy a used scope for $300. Better for the environment, almost certainly better for your own lab. You can get an Analog Discovery for $300 and get mixed signal and advanced triggering.
I feel like it's more "REALLY NICHE consumer reports" if you find the reviewers you trust their testing and opinion.
lol
To quote the ending of the 1984 movie Revenge of the Nerds: "I'm a nerd and I'm pretty proud of it". 🤣
Matthias, not random at all, almost overly comprehensive and (one of your hallmarks) a fair review.
really cool video!! it reminds me of my youth when using o-scopes for work.
Great review, thank you. With those noise issues, I would be tempted to build a linear power supply: 1 Amp @ 5 VDC = 5 Watts, so make it about from 1.5 to 2 Amps DC and it should work fine.
It's a brave company that sends Matthias something to review.
I don't know if you can call them a brave company for sending out a unit for review, I'm guessing they're firing a barrage of units out and crossing their fingers that a few land on some easy-to-impress TH-camrs 🙂
I have that exact Fnirsi scope! it's my first scope and I'm still learning a lot of stuff about electrical engineering, so for my purposes it's plenty enough I think
One thing you gotta hand to these Chinese manufacturers: they have really nailed how to interact with influencers and reviewers. Not just here, but in every market they enter.
For example, I am a watercolor enthusiast, and in the watercolor world there are a few brands that are top quality (M. Graham, Qor, Daniel Smith, Winsor & Newton, etc.) Good luck getting free materials from these guys! Meanwhile, TH-cam artists get bombarded with garbage Chinese art materials, it gets to the point where that's all they feature.
And if you DO somehow get materials from the big manufacturers, they're not going to be thrilled with negative reviews or comparisons, and that may be the last time you ever get anything from them.
So, ultimately, the end result is that the market gets flooded with crappy Chinese products, which gains market share at the expense of established, and higher quality manufacturers.
What makes the chinese more enjoyable to work with is that it seems like they don't know ho to do marketing, so they give people a lot more freedom than north american companies with their prescribed talking points. But as you point out, this may be a deliberate strategy on their part.
@@matthiasrandomstuff2221 Over in China the market is hyper-aggressive, because there's essentially no IP protection. So if you make a product, any other manufacturer can just rip you off, make magnitudes more than you, flood the market with product, and take ads everywhere, and push you right out of the market. So naturally, if you take a company from that environment and bring them here, it's easy pickings.
I would argue that their marketing strategy of sending free materials to anyone with enough of an audience who fancies themselves a reviewer is actually very clever. It doesn't matter if the review is positive or negative, they are the sole point of discussion. Furthermore, because in most instances nowadays there is no longer a journalistic separation between the reviewer and the corporate liason, the reviews will naturally trend positively anyways.
So ultimately, they have discovered that instead of paying for sponsored content, they can save money and get a similar result for just the cost of goods, which, being Chinese junk, is not very much.
100 or 200mhz which is better and cheaper bet plz prescribe.
I think this scope could be way better if they open sourced the firmware. Many of the problems seem like they could be easily fixed by the community.
Indeed, but only if there is enough interest in the community. So much to hack, only so many hackers
The sampling is 200M in single trace mode. 👍
Obviously it is very limited, but it is enough for many applications.
In your country, the Rigol in your comparison may be "only" 2x the cost, but here in Brazil, the cost difference for this Rigol is more than 5x.
5:42 set your hold off in the trigger menu then it waits for a while before triggering again
Regardless of if all measurements are initiated correctly or not, what you ran into was what every beginner would run into and stumble over. Especially if you start the hobby and stick to cheap tools, either because you are unsure if it is the right hobby or you cannot afford the big brands, you will end up chasing faults that don't exist but are only ghosting on your meter screens and displays. In this case it is only double the price but 10 times the fun. These simpler reviews are very important and helpful to much more people compared to the high price gear comparison with lots of tech words, at least in my eyes. Words from a guy with the shelf full of R&S, Agilent and all this high price gear ;)
I myself am just an intermediate hobbyist... and I have to agree: if you have an open mind, a cheap digital scope will eventually make you aware / watch out for the typical side-effects of having too short a buffer, not enough sampling rate, not enough bandwidth and own ringing (impedance mismatch) in your probes, various signs of aliasing...
@xrysf03 actually I learned a lot when starting with an analog Philips scope before proceeding to digital samplers. Lucky me my dad had some real Agilent scopes in the company which I was allowed to use. And later I got the same unit from eBay for cheap. I still use it today, ken three of them including the one from my dad's company I used. And a 60MHz two beam 4 channel Yokogawa.
The rigol simulates persistence of vision when zooming out the trace, it interpolates/blends with all of the data while the fnirsi just takes less samples.
The rigol probably also has an option to delay retriggering. My rigol ds1054z has it. I use it exactly for that reason. It also has trigger options to trigger on the x occurance for video signals for example to trigger on frames or lines (needs a sync signal though).
Another advantage the fnirsi of being able to power from a battery pack is that the ground reference is decoupled from mains, so it's safer to use on mains powered devices if you touch a high voltage rail with the ground lead of the scope. The rigol would show a few sparks and trip the breaker.
You probably could just use a 3 prong to 2 prong plug adapter for that, sacrificing some noise rejection I'd suppose, but that's an acceptable trade off for not blowing sht up lol.
I suspect some of the limitations on the Rigol (and other high-ish-end scopes) are deliberate, to force people to buy the models with (or in some cases just the license to unlock) features like digital signal decoding, etc..
It has digital signal decoding by default
I'm actually very curious about the bridge tweezers. I have been looking into getting some!
With decent sized built-in battery that would be a great alternative to handheld oscilloscopes in many scenarios.
Just tape a power bank to the back. Physical knobs are sooo nice to have!
@@matthiasrandomstuff2221 Make another video where you open that Fnirsi up. I have a sneaking suspicion it's going to be mostly empty inside.
Don't understand a word, however, I always find Matthias' videos very entertaining. Regards from sunny Peru.
Nice review. Some Rigols can be bought with signal generator. I bought the 4 ch 100MHz 1104Z Rigol a few years ago and no regrets. Even has a port for 8 channel logic analyzer pod. Don't too often need 4 ch, but handy when I do need them. How the waveform was displayed when you had the Fnirsi scope connected to your pico-pi and it was changing between freqs, was quite odd.
I am thinking on two things now, 1 i will try to connect to ground and 2 calibrate the probe. On the underside of the connector of the probe there is a small screw where you can calibrate the probe with. The P6100 mention it in the manual, but i didn't found out yet how to do it with the Fnirsi-1014D.
Thanks a lot for the video. The info is clear and straightforward. I have a plan to buy the Fnirsi-1014D. I need to use it to tune two LC tank circuits in a metal detector project. I would think Fnirsi-1014D works fine with a few hundred KHz, right? In this case, would Fnirsi do the job quite well same as Rigol?
I love those keymashed Chinese brands
Notice how F,R,S are basically left hand, rest position
N,I, right hand, rest position.
Possible other brand names:
finrs
sirnf
fsnir
seinf
gnris
sgrin
frsni
isnf
cvnris
srgin
nisf
sdrgni
fniser
sgin
seignk
dksng
snfgie
skdfgn
This is not a throwaway Amazon brand printed on products to avoid responsibilities, the company actually operates under that name in China. "Shenzhen Finiris Technology Co., Ltd", maybe the name makes sense in Chinese, but maybe it just sounded cool to them
@@zapl80 do you mean Shenzhen Fnirsi Technology Co., Ltd?
@@xl000 the name seems to exist in multiple variants and it seems to be a direct transcription of their official chinese name 菲尼瑞斯
I purchased this for one purpose. I want to be able to take it into the field and watch the output of metal detectors.
Battery power and FFT is worth the price. No earth ground it nice for waveforms on the hot-side of broken SMPS supplies.
lol all those links in the description, can't wait for you to review night vision
I don't think the night vision thing would be interesting enough to warrant a video. if it was a thermal site, or passive night vision yes, but the consumer ones are essentially a near infrared flashlight plus near infrared camera
I looked into Apple counterfeit products on ebay a couple of years back. Just for personal interest. It turned out the weight mattered. The Apple device had a ferrite choke or transformer on it, which accounted for the weight difference. An esoteric, but interesting piece of ephemera, I thought. Now, one of the greats comes along, and confirms, it DOES matter.
Still using the Apple charger from my iPad 2. (Or was it a One?)
Cheap stuff sometimes has weights inside of it to make it feel more premium. Diodegonewild did a teardown of a cheap PSU with a weight in it and it's hilarious. It's just double sided taped over the circuit board and waiting to fall onto everything and short it all out.
Hi Matthias, I have this FNIRSI oscilloscope and it really bothers me that even though it has a FFT capability, it doesn’t provide any information, so you can’t even see the frequency axis, which makes any analysis very difficult.
Also, the function generator has an amplitude of 2.5V that cannot be adjusted, which is not ideal to use as input for other applications.
Thanks for the video!
Oh, hadn't played around with the function generator that much, indeed, lack of amplitude adjustment is kind of silly, even the scope meter could do that. But using the pi pico as a signal generator worked great and I might do more of that in the future.
You aware you can program your own generator waveform ?
What other device for $150 can do that?
@@pepethefrog7193 it's really a hassle to do though.
If I were to hazard a guess, based on the 20+MHz behaviour, especially the 65MHz behaviour at around 13:00, the sampling rate is about 100MHz, not the bandwidth. FOr those wondering about similar part numbers, much of the industry took the cue from Tek (I think they were first) in coding bandwidth and channel count into the model number. Or, if my suspicion is correct here, sample rate and channel count. I would be curious about the results of probing the A/D clock.
For the Rigol, it may have a trigger hold-off feature? My scopes have that.
or course, or I could set the trigger point to be left of the display
Have you ever seen people that use their pc sound card as a oscilloscope? A review of that would be pretty cool.
I made one of these a couple of years ago, they are very cool for low frequency aplications, and very cheap to make. The one from Rod Elliot is very cool and easy to assembly...
25 years ago at my old job, I used the sound card as a streaming A/D converter, hooked up to a scanner, to decode Mobitex digital wireless. Problem with sound cards is they are all AC coupled, and gain is relatively unknown. A pi pico is much more suitable.
@@matthiasrandomstuff2221 oh thanks for the info, I plan to play around with hardware hacking after I finish my degree. So it will be very useful while I'm starting out.
Ok for 2 channel up to 20 kHz maybe 30 kHz. But you have no actual voltage scale without calibrating it and likely only 1.5V MAX input and need 10x or 100x probes to be slightly usable.
Some times it's acceptable.
You can have it as app on phones also but you might burn your phone 😅
But just using the microphone itself for sounds it has some coole neat applications
apparently a sound card can be used as an interface for a few different things. i saw one where a guy made a video game controller and hooked it up through the sound card. i guess that's a good solution if your device can't communicate with usb properly
Thanks for this video. Very informative.
Recently I had considered the Fnirsi because of the USB powered ability, but decided against because I wanted some other features and opted for a 4 channel Rigol.
For the portability issues, I purchased a small Jackery that I can plug the new scope into and almost all of my others as well.
Now I am waiting for Matthias to design his own replacement guts to go inside the Fnirsi's case but that works to his specs and just re-uses its screen and knobs...
He will make them out of wood!
10:58 you can get cheap stuff anywhere... Try comparing it to Apple to known Chinese brands like anker, etc
Just a pure case of " you get what you pay for"
or... if you need to do big stuff (or very small stuff) you have to spend big money. It's the same in every profession.
That's not always true, so I say that "you don't get what you don't pay for" instead.
@@P_RO_ I'm going out there tomorrow to see what I can get without paying for it. Wish me luck!
@@P_RO_ yep. True story: 2 products for exactly the same soup, just different boxes. One is fancy & expensive, the other one is plain & cheap
Granted the FINIRSI has sample buffer issues and max frequency capabilities. But at the price point and for most use cases it is quite satisfactory. The signal generator is it's forte. You can open up the FINIRSI and install a USB power bank and make it a very portable unit, it is best to run it off of batteries. In my opinion the FINIRSI is the best economical choice.
I have a transistor tester with built in 3.7V battery and one with external 9V battery. One with 9V battery is better, because it uses higher voltage for tests. For example, it gives me accurate reading when I test 5V zener diode.
These scopes look pretty but I would always prefer an Old Tektronix 465 for faultless operation and reliability.
Reminds me of the time back in the early 2010's when the manager of the place where I was working decided to buy a few Owon scopes. 3 months later he was cursing in the lab. "This triggering function doesn't work right!... The FFT doesn't work right!" ... Another engineer piped in "You know, they sell an upgrade that fixes all the problems with that unit. It puts a Tektronix logo on it." Nowadays, the Rigol scopes are actually decent quality and tend to work correctly, although it wasn't like that at first.
Was there also noise, when power was coming from the power bank?
Great review!
I recognize the “operating system” on the frsni from much smaller, cheap and portable scopes, which are not worth the trouble. I was validated that you also found the “zoom affects the trigger voltage” behavior weird and bad. I thought I was going crazy.
13:18 did you use the same scope probe to measure the bandwidth on the Rigol and FNIRSI, and adjust the probe's capacitance with a square wave at the tip? The measurement bandwidth is limited by the product of the scope and probe's bandwidth. If the scope has a 100MHz 3dB bandwidth and the probe has a 100 MHz 3 dB bandwidth, then together they will be 6 dB down at 100MHz. Depending on the roll off rate of each, you may realize a 3dB measurement bandwidth below 50MHz with that combination.
That said, I wouldn't be surprised if these cheap scopes well underperform against the stated specification.
I expect these 2 channel 8-bit scopes will get cheaper and cheaper as 4-channel 12-bit scopes are now aggressively priced below $500USD.
See pinned comment
Thanks for this work. I have a question, does the Fnirsi 1014D oscilloscope have the capability to multiply two signals?
Not sure if I’d trust such an inexpensive scope but I do have a question: Is the scope’s ground floating or tied to neutral? I see that’s it’s using a USB brick without the ground pin. Might be a cheap solution to run off a battery brick and have an isolated scope for AC troubleshooting.
its floating. Yes, running it off a power bank is an attractive option. I just need to buy a real power bank that can power it for more than twenty minutes.
The one thing I was looking for in a scope is to be able to measure signals on mains without the need of expensive differential probes. The FNIRSI allows for measurements up to 400V using 10x probe and even higher if you use the included 100x high voltage probe. My hesitation is for purchasing are the things you pointed out about sample sizes and storage depth. Any suggestions for a scope with mains measurement capabilities without expensive differential probes?
The hanmatek scope I reviewed can also run off a power bank, but it uses 8 watts, so needs a bigger power bank. Also, if you take something like the rigol scope and disconnect the ground lead, its also floating.
@@matthiasrandomstuff2221 Thank you sir for responding to my question. I agree that on a Rigol or others the ground disconnected. But Rigol, for example, says that the scope can not measure mains. I assume it is because of the internal circuitry, regardless if the ground is disconnected. FNIRSI explicitly says you can use the scope to measure mains with certain provisos as I previously mentioned.
Would it be a correct assumption that any scope that is power by an isolated from mains power supply like USB -C DC power source that you can use it to measure mains? It would be interesting if you could do a video on this.
Thanks again for the response.
Raspbery PI mounted in oscilloscope like chasis ? ;)
Although this twist-morph animation on frequency change has some wierd charm :D
I actually like those portable hand held multimeter/scopes like the OWON hds272. It wont replace my 4 channel scope but it is convenient.
Have you looked at the OWON scope meters? I bet they're similar internally.
When you triggered on the short digital stream on the Rigol, it sounded like the Rigol did not do single shot. In single shot mode, it should not retrigger without a manual rearming. Does Rigol not have this ability or does it not work?
5:39 Fix for being retriggered is set holdoff delay longer. This just waits until it can be retriggered again. Or turn it to single mode.
what I was pointing out is that the rigol scope can re-trigger sooner
@@matthiasrandomstuff2221 Ahhhh. It seemed like it was presented as a minus of the Rigol.
Writing mHz instead of MHz triggers me hard...
you must live a hard life
@@matthiasrandomstuff2221 I like your content but he's correct you know. mHz is different unit
Just dont make me use mibiHertz...
@@matthiasrandomstuff2221 there is actually a different of 10⁹ wich is *QUITE SIGNIFICANT*
M is mega; m is milli. Big difference. Huge.. 😎
Thank you!
How could it be lighter!?!?
My Rigol already feels empty🙄
mine weighs 3 kg
I was thinking to buy this for function generator and usb supply for mobile operation but aliasing is show stopper for me
Bought one a few years ago and basically trashed it in the same day. You just can't trust ANYTHING it measures. Sad to see how FNIRSI hasn't changed anything about the 1014D. It's been out for many years, is still for sale today and it's still the same (crap) as it was when it was released. It would have been a great scope.
in Canada is 250CAD+ Tax. On Rigol website, an DS1102Z-E entry level is 279+ tax+ shipping. Not even considering it, but I will like to see a teardown.
$402 on aliexpress for the Rigol. That price you quote is probably in US dollars.
@@matthiasrandomstuff2221 It is in Cad, but they changed to 382 CAD, clearance, so you are right. Last year half of my Ali express items didn't arrive, so I am done with them.
Fnirsi must have learned from the EcoFlow review saga in that even a critical Mathias review of a product doesn’t necessarily translate to poor product reception.
that was Vevor, actually
@@matthiasrandomstuff2221 , ah yeah thats right.
I still think these very limited scopes are quite useful, since a lot of the time when I need a scope, I really just need a voltmeter with a bit of history. But anything that actually requires a scope, they tend to struggle with. I do wish they'd just list the specs properly though.
10:00 that's the waveform of a flyback converter in discontinuous conduction mode.
At work I have a Tektronix from 1997 (it has a 3.5" floppy drive for copying off screenshots!) and it also has that same issue with low frequency aliasing . Recently I was using it to compare phases of two 10MHz references (1v p-p sine waves) but when I first turned it on, I was set way to low on the horizontal and it actually showed a sine wave, but I couldn't get the trigger to lock! That is, until I realized the error and clicked it up to a much higher frequency. Funny thing is, while this old scope has its problems, it's kind of like an old jalopy: I'm now familiar with its quirks, and kind of like it. (I didn't turn down the brand new Keysight MSO they offered me recently, though!)
true for any piece of equipment. Having used the Rigol for some time, I have gotten a lot faster with it.
4:52 this is why i love runt triggering
Waitting...
The osciloscope and the signal generator use the same crystal oscilator hence the consistent aliasing. Use only one at a time and everything should be fine.
has nothing to do with which osilator
That is a surprisingly good looking scope, at least for the price at least based on the last time I was looking to get a scope.
That said I'd rather get an actually genuinely good scope or use something like a Pico/Arduinio when the requirements are in that sort of range than pay that much for a scope that isn't all that great. It doesn't seem to be quite good enough value to temp me with the needs I have right now anyway.
Some other issues with the 1014D that wheren't mentioned: The signal generator has no offset adjustment, it is always symetric to the ground. So, it is difficult to use it with single-supply circuits or digital circuits (you will have to make your own offset circuit). There are some other weird ground problems with those units. When you try to measure high voltages (200V-500V) with DC coupling (using 100x probes), there is some offset problem in the signals. Tried to use isolation transformer, or even battery power the scope, and it just doesn't work well. Issues mentioned that need to be highlited: 50mV/div maximum sensitivity!!! The sample rate is NOT 1Gs/s, not even close! I would say it is not a starters scope, as you need a lot of undestanding of its limitations to extract some usefull information from its readings. It is not an scope for experts, obviously, as it can't show most of what an expert wants to see... Few possible usages for it: basic didatics, and basic testing stations (let's say, for signals 1Vpp)...
Try using x10 properly compensated probes. They make a world of difference.
It's good for a hobbyist that wants to do basic signal checks. Repairing an amp or an old 8bit comp.
I'm concerned in this comparison that you may be overlooking some of the more advanced controls that are typically found on most scopes. I don't know if these scopes have them. I consider this video a comparison of discount scopes. :shrug:
As an example, 5:40, scopes usually have a control for trigger delay. This is a delay imposed after triggering to prevent the next trigger from happening before desired. It should probably be called retrigger delay, but here we are. This issue where a follow up pulse retriggers the Rigol and spoils the desired pulse from being displayed can be compensated with a little (re)trigger delay, if so equipped. The Fnirsi naturally imposes a delay that happens to be long enough to prevent spoilage, in this particular case it's a blessing, but I wouldn't count it as a performance win. The Rigol, that you would have to slow down with a trigger delay adjustment (if so equipped) would be the performance winner, I would think.
13:30 Scopes commonly have a 20MHz filter and some have this on by default. Perhaps check the input channel menu to see whether this is engaged? This might explain how a scope seems limited to 20MHz while its marketing claims are of much higher bandwidth.
Yes, the Rigol has that. But look at the video length. Awfully long already.
@@matthiasrandomstuff2221 And the 20MHz filter?
The video title suggests your comparing the pros and cons of each oscilloscope, but I guess the video content suggests your qualifying the new scope against the old, in this might explain why you didn't go into details of a feature on the Rigol.
The rigol supports python visa libraries pyvisa. Im kinda surprised you've not dug into visa commands. I wonder if the new one has visa commands.
Hey Matthias, Any thoughts on being a HAM radio Operator? I think it would be fascinating addition to your electronic videos!
I lack the belly and the beard for that
I appreciate your investigations a lot! Can you conjure up a way to test the moisture meter too? It can't possibly be great at $27, but I'd love to know how okayish it is (ordered it anyway). I can't even begin to think of how to test it aside from just using three moisture meters?
These things are all more relative than absolute, I'd say. I have a Wagner MMC220 contactless one I got ages ago (sponsored). I don't use it very often though. A caveat with that one is that it doesn't measure very deep.
does powering the scope through a power bank eliminate the ground noise? because you didn't really go at length testing the accuracy with and without ect. but it's guaranteed to be more accurate without noise at the source. even if it was only very obvious when it was ground looped back through the second scope.
I don't think it changes your conclusion either way. there's a big gap between people whit projects that are served perfectly well with just a multimeter and people who will use a scope.
The irritating thing about most scopes is that you only get the basic functionality. You have to buy additional licenses to "unlock" functionality that is already present inside the scope. So it looks nice, cheap and flashy when you see it in the shop but that is just the shell. NO THANKS! Most times you end up paying 3-5 times the original price to unlock the functionality THEY KNOW you need. But you don't realize it before it is too late.
I like an honest review. These kind of cheap scopes are good for field work and stuff. A 4 chan o-scope 100MHz is about $1000 and that wasn't the case before. Costa a Kilo-Buck LOL
No matter how you look at it, Free is always good.
Nothing is free.
Do you recommend this fnirsi scope? I've been doing electronics for about 4 years but never got to trouble shoot my circuits in detail with an scope
Im more interested into getting one since i will start building guitar pedals and Boosters
Obviously i cant afford a Rigol or a Keysight.