I really hope the tech guys from Wahoo see this evaluation and get something better for hill climbs soon. I love my Roam but there is a lot of room for improvement. Thanks once again dc rainmaker for your effort in making this review!
The views are amazing! In 2012 I was in France and I rented a bike and rode up Alp d'huez. Nothing I ever saw on TV prepared me for how incredible the views would be. Just amazing! So I can imagine that what you are viewing is just like that.
When I bought my Wahoo some years ago, Garmins units were more expensive, the batteries could not hold a full day of riding (10+ hours), and then there were the software issues. More than just a few riders I know lost their data on their epic ride because the unit froze mid-term. As happy as I have been with my Wahoo, in todays market, there seems that nothing can beat the Garmin units. Impressive how they have caught up. I hope that Wahoo is working on something super-special, but Garmin definitely has not left as much low hanging fruit for Wahoo to take as they did say 5-8 years ago.
DC Rainmaker - the type of guy that puts more weight in forms of no less than three cycling computers, cameras etc when climbing. Much respoect for this - when I see a big climb I even empty the water bottles and the bladder to make it a little easier ;)
Bought a wahoo roam to start last season. It always reported 10-25% lower accent than then the strava routes we rode. Rode with garmin 1030 and 530 users. Their numbers matched the strava route numbers very closely. Also tested against my garmin etrex on a couple mtb rides. Again always 10-20% low! Just switched to 1030plus. Looking forward to getting accurate climb data in 2022.
Yeah, I saw some interesting ascent differences during some climbs last summer, though near-identical stuff with more recent climbs over the past few months.
@@Dcrainmaker there have been at least two wahoo firmware updates since regular outdoor riding season ended locally. Maybe they finally got it working better!with these updates. Maybe ill hold onto the roam for another month and get a few rides in to compare before unloading it.
I’ve ridden this exact route over a decade ago, loved it but it nearly killed me as I wasn’t as fit as I should have been. Really need to get back and give it another go. Love the Dolomites!
Definitely attainable considering my complete lack of preparation, I still made it round but I did look like death by the time I made to the top of the Pordoi…
you are right about the pizza in that hotel. I stayed there a couple of years ago and the pizza was completely inedible. Canazei is a really good spot for both biking and skiing though.
I don’t mind the climbing functions comparison (I’m happy with my Edge 530 and even there I don’t use it very often), but damn I loved ‘riding’ with you there on some of my all-time-favourite roads! Can’t wait to have the school finals completed to go there again in June or whenever.
Thank You for another great video. As we learnt from OpenWaterSwimming fuzzy results of HR or positioning.... sometimes it takes years of tinkering hard/software to get good results... As always is nice to learn "where are we now?". Hammerhead's type of data presentation is looking nice and promising. imho All units are making this P R O F I L E of the climb waaaay to much consuming screen space. You can not compact miles of road data, into 2inch of graph. Simple progress bar will do better, plus more configurable data fields After 6 years and about 80000km of cycling mountains in Tenerife I used to seeing errors. It is very challenging for the computer unit to accurately track in 2d, adding altitude and gradient is adding extra errors. Inside/outside the curve has different gradient, so units predictions are magic anyway.... Keep On Doin Watcha Doin, Ray. All the best!!!
I was thinking the same. I think this is a first. Needed to find someone who doesn’t have any skin in the game, so to speak. (Or maybe he can find a pizza oven sponsor 🍕 😋)
@@toadlguy - I don't think it's a complete first. Just very rare. Pizza oven sponsor would be 👌. Ray's always been super smart about all of these sponsorship 'opportunities'.
@@toadlguy Thanks! Indeed, it's technically the 2nd (first was Skillshare about a year ago). You'll see more of them, but I'm hyper-picky, and as you noted, none will have any skin in the game, and none will be on 'Reviews' (those will remain free of sponsored bits). So you might see them instead on things like comparisons, rabbit-holes, quick tips, vlogs, etc... And all of them sponsored by companies that aren't sports tech products I'd touch, but ideally, products relevant to our segment (like The Pro's Closet, or some others coming up that are just cool - even things I use in the DCR Cave...). Cheers!
The nice thing about the K2 is that you feel it's something they will actually improve upon while I'm not so sure Ray will get his wish granted from either Wahoo or Garmin.
This is why I'm interested in getting one. The biggest thing keeping me with my Garmin is how integrated I am into Garmin Connect. It's going to be hard to break myself away from it, and I know that's how Garmin wants things to be.
@Christopher Leko There is a solution to have your cake and eat it. I have the karoo2 for the bike but also use my Garmin watch for all the data tracking. The hammerhead website is pretty poor for data info and so relies on strava etc for such data.
@@Roger101Watson I'll probably end up buying one and testing it out for this. I have a Fenix 6, too, so that plan will work out for me. Getting my cycling data is is important.
@@mandradon It works well for me because on the occasion something happens you have a backup. Karoo2 reminds you if you're moving to press start while Garmin doesn't.
off topic. When I was in Italy on a 5 day bike ride, every single time I climbed - Taratella Napoletana sounded in my head. Warning! Once you hear it in your mind on a climb, its there forever! :) great video!
Yup! It's virtually identical actually in that respect. The one area that the wearables don't yet have is the ability to easily see the listing of climbs upcoming and specifically expand a different climb out. You can technically do it if you dive back into the menus a fair bit, but it's not as front center as on the Edge units. But that specific ClimbPro screen is the same on a watch.
I have used navigation on my Fenix 5+, and climb pro works there as well. For me, the biggest negative of the fenix versus the edge is having to look at my wrist to get information which, on a long climb, seems exhausting. I know it's not, but it feels like an effort. The other issue is just screen real estate. It's easier to see the information on an edge. That said, as I do have the Fenix, on longer rides I will load the route on both the edge and the fenix so the fenix can serve as a backup. When one forgets to charge the edge, this is helpful. Not that I've ever done that.
You (and DesFIT) are so entertaining. Love your videos. Independently from the actual content they're always great and Very informative. Amazing location and we're planning on going as well
The Garmin have a setting that is by default on auto but you can Chang eit to update info speed, GPS location altitude, incline etc every second. Auto saves battery but I prefer it sec by sec
Shush you!!! 😂 (I actually did film exactly that with the Vertix 2 in the Alps...but alas, it sits on the same hard drive as this, also, back then versus the Fenix 6. Given it took me nearly 8 months to get this out...)
Indeed, though, it's still a long way from competing with these. I cover how it works here (but in short, it just shows the gradient in color now): www.dcrainmaker.com/2022/03/wahoo-adds-new-gradient-coloring-with-wahoo-summit-feature.html
I’m a little confused. The Wahoo (Bolt V2) offers an elevation profile without requiring a highlighted Strava segment. Why doesn’t that count as climb information? I’ve used that as a guide multiple times. I’m referring to ~9:10 in the video.
That’s just simply an elevation profile, it doesn’t tell you anything about the climb you’re on, upcoming climbs, upcoming gradients, distance or elevation to top, etc… that’s what ClimbPro and CLIMBER are all about.
Okay… I find it useful specifically for the climb I’m on and what’s (closely) ahead… maybe it’s only useful if a route is loaded and being used (rather than segments being highlighted)?
I usually create my new routes using RideWithGPS. Sometimes I use Strava Routing. I have to imagine the climb/elevation data/profile quality is dependent on the source data.
Hello. Please make a comparison between wahoo tickr fit vs polar verity sense. This is what is missing from your channel. Why do you think Wahoo and Polar don't add SpO2 to their products? For many it is important. .-
Do you lean towards one over the other? Also curious as to what multi sport watch you’d recommend for an avid swimmer and cyclist. Appreciate your feedback
I *really* like the Karoo styling and design, but I depend on the accuracy of the Garmin upcoming gradient. So basically, if I squint instead at the Karoo colors, it works out and meshes it together, but you really have to ignore the actual numbers displayed.
@@Dcrainmaker-Makes sense and appreciate your perspective. What is your daily driver for a multi-sport watch? I'm debating between the Garmin and Suunto. Just don't know enough about the Suunto to take the leap. I'm also a data/metric geek so I've been told Garmin is better. Thoughts?
I think the problem with Hammerhead elevation lies in the base map they use. It’s interesting when you plot the same route in different mapping services and get very different elevation figures for the route. The Hammerhead number seems to be often substantially lower than the same route from Garmin Connect. (The reason I assume the Garmin number to be more accurate is that it’s generally reasonably close to what you see from Strava and Komoot)
Yup, it definitely is the issue. And to be fair, they admit it too (see my written post for their detailed answer). The dataset best I can tell is the same as Garmin's, however, Garmin basically covers it up by smoothing the data a fair bit, so instead of showing the 100m which makes it really obviously, Garmin chunks at many hundreds of meters.
This would seem a perfect place to crowd source their data sets (at least for Garmin - not sure how the Hammerhead infrastructure works). If they can get heat map data certainly they could get perfect grade data.
I really like the idea of the Garmin Climb Pro feature. But it tricked me too many times and thus became another reason for switching to Wahoo. Did your Garmin never finish a climb too early?
Garmin used to have that for their Edge 1030 series, but eventually ditched it as nobody actually used it in real-life, and just cost them a lot of dev time. :-/
Des and Ray; you guys are quite sound, would love to see you talk about cycling as such minus the tech review. Like even how you organized the ride, distances, your bikes routes etx
Ray, great video! Very many thanks for this comparision! I bought Garmin 1030+ a week ago and I'm already returning it for one simple reason: the screen is absolutely nightmare. I had to disable auto brightness just to see what's going on on the screen and even that doesn't give me understanding where are breadcrumbs on the road. The "go to" line on Garmin has the same color as some of the main roads. Yes, feature-wise Garmin is a monster. Yet, these features are not that user-friendly and oh boy good luck to finding them in 100500 menus on the screen. I can get over poor UX/UI but the screen is just a disaster. What's the point of using so many colors on the screen if these colors are just shades? Sorry, Garmin, but how come your promotional materials (yes, the box) shows the true picture of your device, not an ultra-bright and fantasy-crisp maps which you never can see on your device. Never been a wahoo fanboy but I'll stick with my black-and-white wahoo elmnt for a bit longer, it seems :(
Haha, for all the tech in the world, I don't think either of us have ever used that on all our rides together. Perhaps are settings aren't enabled. :) As for Descents, it only works for non-cycling activities.
@@Dcrainmaker @DesFit Thanks, I didn't know about the "DescentPro" restriction 😲Fun idea for the grouptrack collab: You set up x canned messages, and can only use that those during the ride for communication. Only famous movie quotes allowed, and can't share them before the ride. Would be hilarious. Ok, I think it is better if I go to sleep. Sorry.
Hammerheads climbing data being off has been such an irritation, and it often doesn't even register climbs, like there is a 1/2 mile 25-30% near me, if it's on the route the head unit won't tell me about it. I do really like all their instantaneous data screen more than anyone else's
Interesting. It should definitely pick that up (over the 400m distance threshold), but yeah, the upcoming gradient just isn't really reliable, except for squinting your eyes and looking at the general gist of the next 300-400 meters.
Hey Ray, haven't seen this anywhere but could you please please please do a workout mode comparison between them? From experience i know the bolt was the best as the edge 520 plus UI is all confused. I wonder how things have been updated in the newest series and how hammerhead compares
Yeah, it's long been on my to-do list. Back in the Edge 520 days, Wahoo was better, but by time you get to the Edge 530/830/1030/1040 days, I'd say it's mostly a wash between Wahoo & Garmin. Hammerhead is a bit more limited in partnerships on workouts, for example, lacking TrainerRoad as a biggie.
Yeah, just depends on what you want and where you ride. In this case, I just kept them the same on both devices (since both Garmin and Hammerhead have similar options).
My Edge 830 is appalling for grade % and the ClimbPro the info is about 20 seconds late at best. Power reading has a 9 second lag. Absolute garbage. I use RPE instead when riding and just look at the data when I get home.
I really like my Garmin Edge, but I have same issue. % are late, so it is annoying. I would still understand it in case I am riding without any route uploaded in Garmin (so no data for ClimbPro), but if I give all route information to Garmin, why it has to be still late 🤦♂️
@@hegysal the “Sensible Grade” data field that you can add through ConnectIQ is a bit better, but still about 3 seconds off. I also use the 10 second average power data field, since the delay is so bad that it’s pointless looking at any shorter period.
One thing that can contribute to lag, is a clogged altimeter port. This was shot on an Edge 830, and as seen, no issues there. Also, do ensure you're on the latest firmware, Garmin has made some tweaks there over the last year. For the altimeter port, dunk your unit in a bowl of warm soapy water for about 10 minutes, and then gently shake it around in the bowl and afterwards, rinse it off.
@@Dcrainmaker cheers! I’ll give it a go - I think it’s just a dodgy unit though - but as Garmin always say, “it’s within their margin of error parameters” 😄👍
Regarding the k2, do you know whether the latest Software update from 5th of May 2022 has solved the accuracy issue? In the Software release notes it says that it has improved.
Hey everybody, I have a wahoo and it sucks when it comes to climbs. Finding all the strava segments is just too much work and usually not possible to find every single one. So I’m interested in the Garmin climbpro. My big question: if I take a wrong turn or loose the the gps (i.e. tunnel) what happens with the climbpro? On the wahoo it just ends the segment and your all alone again… another downside there…
Does the pitch at which the mount is set impact the gradient? For example...if I'm riding on a flat road but I have my Garmin mount tilted up, will the Garmin register that as a grade climb? I feel like it does when I'm riding as I can't imagine the map would have this data for every single meter of road. But also, I can't imagine there are accelerometers in these apparatuses.
The wahoo is an over rated piece of tech. The latest edge, compared to the two year old Garmin 530, has a lot to catch up for. Not to mention that it isn’t very useful for mtb rides either. I don’t get why so many love them so much? The guy in the shop said he uses the edge and swore by it.
I’ve been thinking into switching computer for a quite while now. I currently have the wahoo ELEMNT which works great but my only issues is connectivity with other devices like the heart rate. When it comes to comparing with Strava it only shows small difference on numbers less than 2-5% but I’ve been thinking about hammerhead…. What’s your opinion on that?
Hello! Is the karoo 2 more accurate on the gradients now after ten months of updates? I am planning to get a new bike computer as i am also getting a power meter to pir with the new computers. Thank you!
"been riding along for, I don't know, two and a half hours, three hours, something like that". Dude, you have three computers, how can you not know??? LOL
Yeah, the feature that does it is called Physio True Up which needs to be enabled. I have a Fenix and Edge and my activities and other data syncs between the two.
I had bought the karoo 2 as a pre-order. However, I returned it after two weeks of testing. In my opinion, it has a much too short battery life. Therefore, it is funny that the karoo in your test has also made the scrape.
I found my Garmin isn't accurate with starts and ends of climbs. Like, when I've been climbing for a few hundred metres and it still says the climb starts in 100m... and the same at the end. Is there a fix for this?
Thank you for the video, very good information 🙂 A question for Ray or anything else: When navigating, which screen is easier to read in directly sunlight when wearing polarized sunglasses, the Garmin or Wahoo Bolt 2? I have an Edge 830 and find it different to read in sunlight (backlight is off BTW). I'm just wondering if I should switch to the Bolt 2. Thank you.
I don't unfortunately have any polarized glasses. The Rapha ones I have are similar, but not quite technically polarized (as I learned recently while checking out something else).
100m increments are way too small for my taste... I would mostly like a 'rolling' gradient of the next 1k with my Garmin... a feature yet to be 'delivered'...
I make better pizza in my pizza oven. This was not the pinnacle of Italian pizzas. This wasn't even the midpoint or low-point of Italian pizzas. But...it was a pizza after a 4hr+ long mountain ride, and almost any pizza is a good pizza then.
Indeed, though, it’s just simply coloring the gradient on elevation profile. It doesn’t do any per-climb information (like distance to top, etc…). But hey, it’s a start!
Yeah, despite a town having a dozen pizza places, at 4PM or so, every single one of them except one was closed. And at that point, we very much needed pizza. So...that's the pizza it was.
Great video by the way I didn’t realise Karoo had accuracy issues , I have the Karoo 2 , but when I think about it I noticed last week that I did a ride with a pal he as a wahoo , we did a 60mile ride and we both live close to each other he did 2113 feet in climbing while I did 2600 feet i thought then that was strange
Karoo - is a huge overpriced heavily marketed gimmick. Basically - a cheap Chinese android phone with no camera. No idea why people chose it over other ones or just over a phone mount.
People choose a bike computer over a phone with a patchwork of random non-integrated apps, because it’s optimized for cycling with the features and functions that people want fully integrated together.
@@hellasboy8243 No, not really. I write... comments on youtube. Now, please provide your personal opinion on why is any iteration of karoo better as a bike computer than an old slow garmin 530? Or why karoo is better than an iPhone mini as a bike computer? Please avoid using paid promo slogans you heard from the fine respected gentlemen on youtube or from karoo ads, just your personal opinion as a great "rider"? :)
Can confim, pizza from the pink castle isn't the best in the world but it is when you finish the Sella Ronda
I really hope the tech guys from Wahoo see this evaluation and get something better for hill climbs soon. I love my Roam but there is a lot of room for improvement. Thanks once again dc rainmaker for your effort in making this review!
Thanks, appreciate it! here's hoping!
They must have. It’s now been added
They did :)
The views are amazing! In 2012 I was in France and I rented a bike and rode up Alp d'huez. Nothing I ever saw on TV prepared me for how incredible the views would be. Just amazing! So I can imagine that what you are viewing is just like that.
When I bought my Wahoo some years ago, Garmins units were more expensive, the batteries could not hold a full day of riding (10+ hours), and then there were the software issues. More than just a few riders I know lost their data on their epic ride because the unit froze mid-term. As happy as I have been with my Wahoo, in todays market, there seems that nothing can beat the Garmin units. Impressive how they have caught up. I hope that Wahoo is working on something super-special, but Garmin definitely has not left as much low hanging fruit for Wahoo to take as they did say 5-8 years ago.
DC Rainmaker - the type of guy that puts more weight in forms of no less than three cycling computers, cameras etc when climbing. Much respoect for this - when I see a big climb I even empty the water bottles and the bladder to make it a little easier ;)
Haha...so true. We had one of our rides where between us we had multiple drones, I think 3-4 GoPro's, plus all the bike computers and watches. :)
Bought a wahoo roam to start last season. It always reported 10-25% lower accent than then the strava routes we rode. Rode with garmin 1030 and 530 users. Their numbers matched the strava route numbers very closely. Also tested against my garmin etrex on a couple mtb rides. Again always 10-20% low!
Just switched to 1030plus. Looking forward to getting accurate climb data in 2022.
Yeah, I saw some interesting ascent differences during some climbs last summer, though near-identical stuff with more recent climbs over the past few months.
@@Dcrainmaker there have been at least two wahoo firmware updates since regular outdoor riding season ended locally. Maybe they finally got it working better!with these updates. Maybe ill hold onto the roam for another month and get a few rides in to compare before unloading it.
Exellent video once again. DC Rainmaker is a "must go" before you buy. Great to see Des there too.
Thanks!!!
I’ve ridden this exact route over a decade ago, loved it but it nearly killed me as I wasn’t as fit as I should have been. Really need to get back and give it another go. Love the Dolomites!
Indeed, an awesome route - both hard, but also very attainable!
Definitely attainable considering my complete lack of preparation, I still made it round but I did look like death by the time I made to the top of the Pordoi…
Thanks for the interesting comparison but also for the astonishing views of Trentino!
you are right about the pizza in that hotel. I stayed there a couple of years ago and the pizza was completely inedible. Canazei is a really good spot for both biking and skiing though.
Phew, dodged a bullet!
I don’t mind the climbing functions comparison (I’m happy with my Edge 530 and even there I don’t use it very often), but damn I loved ‘riding’ with you there on some of my all-time-favourite roads! Can’t wait to have the school finals completed to go there again in June or whenever.
I've learned so much about my Karoo.
They’ve done some amazing work the last year+ on feature enhancements.
Thank You for another great video.
As we learnt from OpenWaterSwimming fuzzy results of HR or positioning.... sometimes it takes years of tinkering hard/software to get good results...
As always is nice to learn "where are we now?". Hammerhead's type of data presentation is looking nice and promising. imho All units are making this P R O F I L E of the climb waaaay to much consuming screen space. You can not compact miles of road data, into 2inch of graph. Simple progress bar will do better, plus more configurable data fields
After 6 years and about 80000km of cycling mountains in Tenerife I used to seeing errors.
It is very challenging for the computer unit to accurately track in 2d, adding altitude and gradient is adding extra errors. Inside/outside the curve has different gradient, so units predictions are magic anyway....
Keep On Doin Watcha Doin, Ray. All the best!!!
Nice vid! As soon as Wahoo do this I'm jumping across!!!!
Here's to hoping it happens!!!
Amazing video Ray. Amazing views. Looked like such an amazing trip! Also good to see you doing a sponsored video.
I was thinking the same. I think this is a first. Needed to find someone who doesn’t have any skin in the game, so to speak. (Or maybe he can find a pizza oven sponsor 🍕 😋)
@@toadlguy - I don't think it's a complete first. Just very rare. Pizza oven sponsor would be 👌. Ray's always been super smart about all of these sponsorship 'opportunities'.
Thanks Matt, appreciate it! And indeed, an awesome set of trips! Hopefully you can make it over to Eurobike or such some year!
@@toadlguy Thanks! Indeed, it's technically the 2nd (first was Skillshare about a year ago). You'll see more of them, but I'm hyper-picky, and as you noted, none will have any skin in the game, and none will be on 'Reviews' (those will remain free of sponsored bits). So you might see them instead on things like comparisons, rabbit-holes, quick tips, vlogs, etc... And all of them sponsored by companies that aren't sports tech products I'd touch, but ideally, products relevant to our segment (like The Pro's Closet, or some others coming up that are just cool - even things I use in the DCR Cave...). Cheers!
The nice thing about the K2 is that you feel it's something they will actually improve upon while I'm not so sure Ray will get his wish granted from either Wahoo or Garmin.
Indeed, they're always chugging on new things, it's awesome!
This is why I'm interested in getting one. The biggest thing keeping me with my Garmin is how integrated I am into Garmin Connect. It's going to be hard to break myself away from it, and I know that's how Garmin wants things to be.
@Christopher Leko There is a solution to have your cake and eat it. I have the karoo2 for the bike but also use my Garmin watch for all the data tracking. The hammerhead website is pretty poor for data info and so relies on strava etc for such data.
@@Roger101Watson I'll probably end up buying one and testing it out for this. I have a Fenix 6, too, so that plan will work out for me. Getting my cycling data is is important.
@@mandradon It works well for me because on the occasion something happens you have a backup. Karoo2 reminds you if you're moving to press start while Garmin doesn't.
off topic. When I was in Italy on a 5 day bike ride, every single time I climbed - Taratella Napoletana sounded in my head. Warning! Once you hear it in your mind on a climb, its there forever! :) great video!
Can Garmin fenix 7x show the details just like the climbpro on Garmin bike computer 3:01? Thanks
Yup! It's virtually identical actually in that respect. The one area that the wearables don't yet have is the ability to easily see the listing of climbs upcoming and specifically expand a different climb out. You can technically do it if you dive back into the menus a fair bit, but it's not as front center as on the Edge units. But that specific ClimbPro screen is the same on a watch.
@@Dcrainmaker thanks a lot, love your vids!
I have used navigation on my Fenix 5+, and climb pro works there as well. For me, the biggest negative of the fenix versus the edge is having to look at my wrist to get information which, on a long climb, seems exhausting. I know it's not, but it feels like an effort. The other issue is just screen real estate. It's easier to see the information on an edge.
That said, as I do have the Fenix, on longer rides I will load the route on both the edge and the fenix so the fenix can serve as a backup. When one forgets to charge the edge, this is helpful. Not that I've ever done that.
You (and DesFIT) are so entertaining. Love your videos. Independently from the actual content they're always great and Very informative. Amazing location and we're planning on going as well
Love your content bro - such high effort and well thought out each time
Thanks - appreciate it!
Oh wow, you guys are friends!? And you're friends with Shane (gp lama), so cool. Great video too!!
Yup! In non-Covid times when they let Shane off the Island, we even cause trouble together...
@@Dcrainmaker I'm in Sydney, it's definitely been a double edged sword, less cases but trapped also.
The Garmin have a setting that is by default on auto but you can Chang eit to update info speed, GPS location altitude, incline etc every second. Auto saves battery but I prefer it sec by sec
I'm impressed you made it with that piddly amount of nutrition. I would have bonked HARD! Looked like a beautiful ride. Thanks for sharing.
"Made it", is all relative. 😂
Wud have loved a watch too in this . Maybe the vertix 2
Shush you!!! 😂 (I actually did film exactly that with the Vertix 2 in the Alps...but alas, it sits on the same hard drive as this, also, back then versus the Fenix 6. Given it took me nearly 8 months to get this out...)
@@Dcrainmaker I'm waiting for the vertix 2 vs fenix 7x 😀
@@apsbentom I did collect a ton of data on Vertix 2 vs Fenix 7 units in the Canary Islands, and lots of b-roll, but no real storyline/etc around it.
Great explanation as always Ray 👌🏼
Thanks Mieke!
Wahoo released their summit feature shortly after this video was released but some months after it was filmed.
Indeed, though, it's still a long way from competing with these. I cover how it works here (but in short, it just shows the gradient in color now): www.dcrainmaker.com/2022/03/wahoo-adds-new-gradient-coloring-with-wahoo-summit-feature.html
I’m a little confused. The Wahoo (Bolt V2) offers an elevation profile without requiring a highlighted Strava segment. Why doesn’t that count as climb information? I’ve used that as a guide multiple times. I’m referring to ~9:10 in the video.
That’s just simply an elevation profile, it doesn’t tell you anything about the climb you’re on, upcoming climbs, upcoming gradients, distance or elevation to top, etc… that’s what ClimbPro and CLIMBER are all about.
Okay… I find it useful specifically for the climb I’m on and what’s (closely) ahead… maybe it’s only useful if a route is loaded and being used (rather than segments being highlighted)?
I usually create my new routes using RideWithGPS. Sometimes I use Strava Routing. I have to imagine the climb/elevation data/profile quality is dependent on the source data.
Amazing video! I really enjoy it
Thanks!!!
I think what it matter’s for me is the Battery life also the Navigation.. the question is how long you can use both Navigation and Climb thing
You Sir, have the best job!
It's not a bad gig indeed! Thanks!!
Is the outfit you wear available for ordering on the merchandise site? Or maybe in the near future? Looks really cool!
Hello. Please make a comparison between wahoo tickr fit vs polar verity sense. This is what is missing from your channel. Why do you think Wahoo and Polar don't add SpO2 to their products? For many it is important. .-
Des is fit, dc rainmaker ... struggled ;D Thanks for the awesome review
Des is blessed with living in the mountains of Colorado. My largest mountain in the Netherlands is the highway overpass. 😂
I also wasn't trying to film and ride - I was just enjoying those views :) Thanks for suggesting those great rides, @DC Rainmaker!
@@Dcrainmaker The Netherlands are more than Amsterdam Ray. Ever seen the very hilly Amstel Gold Race? Surprise … That’s in the country you live in 🙈
K2 for the money😁 3-4 rides fully charge... 👌 😎 🙌
Do you lean towards one over the other? Also curious as to what multi sport watch you’d recommend for an avid swimmer and cyclist.
Appreciate your feedback
I *really* like the Karoo styling and design, but I depend on the accuracy of the Garmin upcoming gradient. So basically, if I squint instead at the Karoo colors, it works out and meshes it together, but you really have to ignore the actual numbers displayed.
@@Dcrainmaker-Makes sense and appreciate your perspective.
What is your daily driver for a multi-sport watch? I'm debating between the Garmin and Suunto. Just don't know enough about the Suunto to take the leap.
I'm also a data/metric geek so I've been told Garmin is better.
Thoughts?
Canazei rules…👍 Thanks great video as always
Thanks, indeed it's a great area!
Love the Karoo 2, moved from the Garmin and will never look back.
Great video, as ever. What happened to the 945 LTE?
It just ran out of juice. There was a bug back then that was causing the cellular piece to stay lit on the entire time unnessessarily.
I think the problem with Hammerhead elevation lies in the base map they use. It’s interesting when you plot the same route in different mapping services and get very different elevation figures for the route. The Hammerhead number seems to be often substantially lower than the same route from Garmin Connect. (The reason I assume the Garmin number to be more accurate is that it’s generally reasonably close to what you see from Strava and Komoot)
Yup, it definitely is the issue. And to be fair, they admit it too (see my written post for their detailed answer). The dataset best I can tell is the same as Garmin's, however, Garmin basically covers it up by smoothing the data a fair bit, so instead of showing the 100m which makes it really obviously, Garmin chunks at many hundreds of meters.
This would seem a perfect place to crowd source their data sets (at least for Garmin - not sure how the Hammerhead infrastructure works). If they can get heat map data certainly they could get perfect grade data.
I really like the idea of the Garmin Climb Pro feature. But it tricked me too many times and thus became another reason for switching to Wahoo. Did your Garmin never finish a climb too early?
One idea would be to have the devices in a landscape mode to make better use of a wider screen for the graphs.
Garmin used to have that for their Edge 1030 series, but eventually ditched it as nobody actually used it in real-life, and just cost them a lot of dev time. :-/
Des and Ray; you guys are quite sound, would love to see you talk about cycling as such minus the tech review. Like even how you organized the ride, distances, your bikes routes etx
Does that mean we get to include the food? Cause, we got a lot of food photos...
@@Dcrainmaker especially the food
What an adventure and its a tech review. loved it, you got a sub,.
Thanks! And welcome aboard!
My Karoo2 never gets the gradient right...
Does the more recent Wahoo Summit freeride function now more like the others?
Ray, great video! Very many thanks for this comparision!
I bought Garmin 1030+ a week ago and I'm already returning it for one simple reason: the screen is absolutely nightmare. I had to disable auto brightness just to see what's going on on the screen and even that doesn't give me understanding where are breadcrumbs on the road. The "go to" line on Garmin has the same color as some of the main roads.
Yes, feature-wise Garmin is a monster. Yet, these features are not that user-friendly and oh boy good luck to finding them in 100500 menus on the screen.
I can get over poor UX/UI but the screen is just a disaster. What's the point of using so many colors on the screen if these colors are just shades?
Sorry, Garmin, but how come your promotional materials (yes, the box) shows the true picture of your device, not an ultra-bright and fantasy-crisp maps which you never can see on your device.
Never been a wahoo fanboy but I'll stick with my black-and-white wahoo elmnt for a bit longer, it seems :(
Amazing views.
Indeed!
"I don't know where Des is"
GroupTrack will take at least 10 attempts to film ;) Also, we need to get @GPLama along for that video!
Haha, for all the tech in the world, I don't think either of us have ever used that on all our rides together. Perhaps are settings aren't enabled. :) As for Descents, it only works for non-cycling activities.
@@Dcrainmaker @DesFit Thanks, I didn't know about the "DescentPro" restriction 😲Fun idea for the grouptrack collab: You set up x canned messages, and can only use that those during the ride for communication. Only famous movie quotes allowed, and can't share them before the ride. Would be hilarious. Ok, I think it is better if I go to sleep. Sorry.
You finally got yourself a sponsor 😜
:)
Hammerheads climbing data being off has been such an irritation, and it often doesn't even register climbs, like there is a 1/2 mile 25-30% near me, if it's on the route the head unit won't tell me about it. I do really like all their instantaneous data screen more than anyone else's
Interesting. It should definitely pick that up (over the 400m distance threshold), but yeah, the upcoming gradient just isn't really reliable, except for squinting your eyes and looking at the general gist of the next 300-400 meters.
Hey Ray, haven't seen this anywhere but could you please please please do a workout mode comparison between them?
From experience i know the bolt was the best as the edge 520 plus UI is all confused. I wonder how things have been updated in the newest series and how hammerhead compares
Yeah, it's long been on my to-do list. Back in the Edge 520 days, Wahoo was better, but by time you get to the Edge 530/830/1030/1040 days, I'd say it's mostly a wash between Wahoo & Garmin. Hammerhead is a bit more limited in partnerships on workouts, for example, lacking TrainerRoad as a biggie.
Excelente video en el terreno se prueba mejor 🚴👏👏🚴
When did you film the Sella Ronda part? We did it on skis couple of weeks ago. 😲
Last August/September. The Tenerife portions were a few weeks ago.
It’s worth adjusting the climb threshold on the K2 off of the lowest setting …
Yeah, just depends on what you want and where you ride. In this case, I just kept them the same on both devices (since both Garmin and Hammerhead have similar options).
@@Dcrainmaker for sure … just nice to gave real efforts vs some bumps pop up. :)
My Edge 830 is appalling for grade % and the ClimbPro the info is about 20 seconds late at best. Power reading has a 9 second lag. Absolute garbage. I use RPE instead when riding and just look at the data when I get home.
I really like my Garmin Edge, but I have same issue. % are late, so it is annoying. I would still understand it in case I am riding without any route uploaded in Garmin (so no data for ClimbPro), but if I give all route information to Garmin, why it has to be still late 🤦♂️
@@hegysal the “Sensible Grade” data field that you can add through ConnectIQ is a bit better, but still about 3 seconds off. I also use the 10 second average power data field, since the delay is so bad that it’s pointless looking at any shorter period.
One thing that can contribute to lag, is a clogged altimeter port. This was shot on an Edge 830, and as seen, no issues there. Also, do ensure you're on the latest firmware, Garmin has made some tweaks there over the last year. For the altimeter port, dunk your unit in a bowl of warm soapy water for about 10 minutes, and then gently shake it around in the bowl and afterwards, rinse it off.
@@Dcrainmaker cheers! I’ll give it a go - I think it’s just a dodgy unit though - but as Garmin always say, “it’s within their margin of error parameters” 😄👍
Regarding the k2, do you know whether the latest Software update from 5th of May 2022 has solved the accuracy issue?
In the Software release notes it says that it has improved.
Culd you share the Komoot Route?! :D
I noticed the 530 is on sale now, that must mean the 530 Plus or 540 about to release?
How to get that interface do I need to create a route first ?
Oh man I miss climbing the mountains in Europe
Hard to beat!
What is the make and model of the helmet you are wearing?
Hey everybody, I have a wahoo and it sucks when it comes to climbs. Finding all the strava segments is just too much work and usually not possible to find every single one. So I’m interested in the Garmin climbpro. My big question: if I take a wrong turn or loose the the gps (i.e. tunnel) what happens with the climbpro? On the wahoo it just ends the segment and your all alone again… another downside there…
I use this everyday. I recommend you buying this.
Does the pitch at which the mount is set impact the gradient? For example...if I'm riding on a flat road but I have my Garmin mount tilted up, will the Garmin register that as a grade climb? I feel like it does when I'm riding as I can't imagine the map would have this data for every single meter of road. But also, I can't imagine there are accelerometers in these apparatuses.
Nope, it uses altitude gained over a set distance (constantly rolling).
The wahoo is an over rated piece of tech. The latest edge, compared to the two year old Garmin 530, has a lot to catch up for. Not to mention that it isn’t very useful for mtb rides either. I don’t get why so many love them so much? The guy in the shop said he uses the edge and swore by it.
I’ve been thinking into switching computer for a quite while now. I currently have the wahoo ELEMNT which works great but my only issues is connectivity with other devices like the heart rate. When it comes to comparing with Strava it only shows small difference on numbers less than 2-5% but I’ve been thinking about hammerhead…. What’s your opinion on that?
Avoid..they havent fixed the elevation issue in years now.
Would this work on a stationary bike regardless of the gps
Hello! Is the karoo 2 more accurate on the gradients now after ten months of updates? I am planning to get a new bike computer as i am also getting a power meter to pir with the new computers. Thank you!
Have you learned anything about this?
DC what is the derivation or history of origination for your name....DC Rainmaker.
"been riding along for, I don't know, two and a half hours, three hours, something like that". Dude, you have three computers, how can you not know??? LOL
Respect to you and your work, to be vlogging on 13% grade is wild. Vlogging would be my last thought
What are you riding?
Hello! Do the Garmin computers integrate or sync up with the watches?
Yeah, the feature that does it is called Physio True Up which needs to be enabled. I have a Fenix and Edge and my activities and other data syncs between the two.
I had bought the karoo 2 as a pre-order. However, I returned it after two weeks of testing. In my opinion, it has a much too short battery life. Therefore, it is funny that the karoo in your test has also made the scrape.
3-4 rides per fully charge for me. If you ride 10 hrs per ride then k2 is not for you🤣
I found my Garmin isn't accurate with starts and ends of climbs. Like, when I've been climbing for a few hundred metres and it still says the climb starts in 100m... and the same at the end. Is there a fix for this?
Hmm, I haven't quite seen that. :-/
Thank you for the video, very good information 🙂
A question for Ray or anything else: When navigating, which screen is easier to read in directly sunlight when wearing polarized sunglasses, the Garmin or Wahoo Bolt 2?
I have an Edge 830 and find it different to read in sunlight (backlight is off BTW). I'm just wondering if I should switch to the Bolt 2.
Thank you.
I don't unfortunately have any polarized glasses. The Rapha ones I have are similar, but not quite technically polarized (as I learned recently while checking out something else).
“My body. 50%.” So grade is actually just a matter of perception and not elevation, eh?
Great video 👍👍👍👍✌️✌️🇦🇹🇦🇹
Thanks!!!
for me it is demoralizing to see how much distance is left of the climb and how steep it is. just do it without knowing.
I had the best cup of hot chocolate in the WORLD on the top of the Passo Sella in the hotel bar on the right side 9:44 time stamp.
100m increments are way too small for my taste... I would mostly like a 'rolling' gradient of the next 1k with my Garmin... a feature yet to be 'delivered'...
able to talk on a 10% grade lol, what a champ 😂
Karoo screen looks very dim.
It's pretty bright, depending on the configuration. No problem reading it at all. Shooting it on camera is always tricky.
You were in Canazei 😂
I want a review of the pizza.
I make better pizza in my pizza oven. This was not the pinnacle of Italian pizzas. This wasn't even the midpoint or low-point of Italian pizzas. But...it was a pizza after a 4hr+ long mountain ride, and almost any pizza is a good pizza then.
@@Dcrainmaker Keep up the great work, I really enjoy watching your channel.
There is no snow in the dolomites? Impressive🤓
Not in August/September. It was shot then, though more recent climbs in Canary Islands in the last few weeks.
Welp, Wahoo seems to have pulled a practical joke on you! They've landed a climbing feature literally within two weeks of the release of this video.
Indeed, though, it’s just simply coloring the gradient on elevation profile. It doesn’t do any per-climb information (like distance to top, etc…). But hey, it’s a start!
Wahoo seems dead at this point. Garmin user, "thumbing up" for Karoo as well!
All the way to Italy 🇮🇹 for a shit looking pizza 🤪
Yeah, despite a town having a dozen pizza places, at 4PM or so, every single one of them except one was closed. And at that point, we very much needed pizza. So...that's the pizza it was.
Great video by the way I didn’t realise Karoo had accuracy issues , I have the Karoo 2 , but when I think about it I noticed last week that I did a ride with a pal he as a wahoo , we did a 60mile ride and we both live close to each other he did 2113 feet in climbing while I did 2600 feet i thought then that was strange
Should have waited 12 days...lol!
fix your helmet straps ffs ;D
Nope not doing that
comparing to the weather in UK... horrible! ;-)
I just assume my weather widgets is perpetually broken when I look at UK weather….
No doubt: Garmin
Karoo - is a huge overpriced heavily marketed gimmick. Basically - a cheap Chinese android phone with no camera. No idea why people chose it over other ones or just over a phone mount.
People choose a bike computer over a phone with a patchwork of random non-integrated apps, because it’s optimized for cycling with the features and functions that people want fully integrated together.
Do you even ride?
@@hellasboy8243 No, not really. I write... comments on youtube.
Now, please provide your personal opinion on why is any iteration of karoo better as a bike computer than an old slow garmin 530? Or why karoo is better than an iPhone mini as a bike computer? Please avoid using paid promo slogans you heard from the fine respected gentlemen on youtube or from karoo ads, just your personal opinion as a great "rider"? :)
@@IvanMalechko iPhone have not ANT+ for example.