I usually have to watch videos in 2x speed to feel like I'm not wasting my life. This is the first time I had to slow it down to .75x to try to not miss anything. This is the level of production I hope to achieve when I start making videos. I'm thoroughly excited to know you did exactly what I intend to do (Precision Matthews conversion) and saved me so much leg work. Thank you! Keep up the good work!
Adam, you certain threw down a ton of great information in less than 14 mins. This is awesome for someone like me who wants to get into CNC, thank you :-)
Excellent information, spectacularly presented. From all the research I have been doing, your recommendations, advice and hardware choices are spot on.
Adam - great video...this is among the best CNC conversion videos on YT. You helped me lock in several decisions I was on the fence with - thank you. Can't wait to see more.
That's great! I'm glad you found it useful. Best of luck on your build, and make sure to share some videos along the way! Care to share what you're building?
Hi Peter - thanks for the great feedback. That's good to hear - I'm pretty new to making these videos & can't help but feel I sound like the most boring guy on the planet. I'm trying to get better - Thanks for the encouragement! Cheers - Adam
Huge nerd doing it hahahaha, well nerd me up. Cheers mate, i was just about to pull the trigger in a HM48 Hafco mill with power feed, DRO and stand, which now decided to convert to a CNC having found a conversion in Australia. Your vid just saved me thousands in showing what i dont need, or can ditch to knock $1000 plus off the mill. What ill save will pretty much cover the cost of the conversion. Thankyou mate. Good job.
Thanks for sharing that! One of my viewers just shared that he is using the Royal R8 quick change tooling system. It looks a little pricy but check it out. Looks like it has all the same benefits of TTS but even faster tool changes - you don’t have to touch the draw bar at all. It’s the first time I’m hearing about it but it looks freakin sweet. Worth some research. Good luck on your build!
This press has worked like a charm for my projects th-cam.com/users/postUgkxajoEbapTfqWaadnqb04h6U576yxXp-FE . I didn't even secure it to my table top, mainly due to the fact that I was using a 15 lbs drill vise. It's not flimsy at all as to what others have claimed it to be. Make sure the locking nuts and levers are secured and there won't be any issues with light pressure and patience. I was able to drill through aluminum, plastic, and steel (steel took a while) with no problems at all. Yeah it took a little longer than a regular drill press, but I don't have the space OR the money for one.The instruction manual was worthless, but luckily assembling the press was intuitive. However, the manual would be good for ordering replacement parts if needed. There is a nice breakdown of the parts that are included in the kit. Before ordering, make sure it is compatible with your unit, it is clearly stated what models the press is compatible with.This was an excellent purchase for $40!!
This is a great video. I was a machinist back in the mid 90's and you reminded me of lots of things I haven't thought about in a long time. I'm looking to build my own cnc machine right now and this helped thanks man.
Thanks for commenting! I’m glad you found it useful. Good luck on your build and come back to share the journey if you can. I’m always curious about what everyone’s building. Cheers 🍻
@adamdebowski2037 You bet! I know how to build a rock solid accurate machine, I'm just stuck on what controller to pick. From what I can tell I need a controller that works well with a software that can take my Gcode out of solidworks cam..... I'm going to run nema 23 or maybe 34?? closed loop motors. Any thoughts on openbuilds BlackBox Motion Control System for the brains? Or just go with acorn? I like the looks of it but its a bit pricey. I look forward to more of your videos! Thanks again 🙂
@@-BlackBird7 sounds like the perfect storm! If you can build a straight/ rigid machine, I wouldn’t worry too much about the controller. Unfortunately, Acorn is the only platform I’ve ever used. I have friends that swear by linuxcnc and do awesome work. Nothing I ever do on the acorn is something they can’t do on LinuxCNC. I don’t know anything about the BlackBox system, and I’m not sure if solidworks CAM has a post of centroid/Acorn, but Fusion CAM and HSMWorks CAM (a plugin for solidworks) do. Closed loop steppers have been so great to great for me. I’d go Nema 34 because you’ll never have to worry, but people do use Nema 23 on X and Y axes. You should send Dave (from Arizonavideo99 on TH-cam) an email. He knows a lot about sizing motors for these machines.
I really appreciate the content you're putting out. Quality production and useful info. Glad to see TH-cam search is still returning great small creators.
VERY well covered. Your narration is clear, concise, technical and fast-paced and very professional sounding, along with your editing, no time wasted with only relevant shots. Thank you for sharing the sources and prices you used. I have the HFT version of the Grizzly G0705 currently manual, but thinking of a CNC changeover. I have a PlasmaCAM for years now, and a couple years ago learned a Mach3 6040 CNC at work and purchased the same unit for at home, along with a PrintrBot at home that was given to me. Work just got a nearly new Haas VF-1, so I am learning that as well. Looking forward to more of your videos; your style reminds me of The Thought Emporium: he could be your evil twin.
Hi Vondeliusc - thanks for the incredibly positive feedback. I'm glad you were able to take something away from the video. It sounds like we live in similar worlds. From your previous messages, I'm gathering that you're likely using Solidworks for the CAD, is that right? What are you using for CAM? Do you ever use Fusion360 for CAD? Cheers - Adam
@@adamdebowski2037 Adam-I went from DOS CAD of some sort to AutoCAD 12 for windows/DOS (600' long sheetrock dryers ~1995) to AutoCAD boolean solids/Mechanical Desktop (class motor coaches) to Inventor (lightly) to SW2007 (modeling aircraft/systems+architectural/steel detailing) and am expert in up to SolidWorks 2021. Moving into CAM, I added a lateral co-transition to Fusion 360 (still model primarily in SW and import). Last year I was VERY happy to learn that HSMWorks is basically a module to SolidWorks, which is fundamentally the same a F360 CAM, since the SW CAM is not so good. F360 CAD is still pretty immature, but the CAM is the best, intuitive, complete, and logical. For personal use, I use SW2013 with HSMWorks currently, with no expectation to change; but I am fluent up through SW2021. I also use VCarve Pro/Aspire. As far as personal projects, I have partially modeled our home, my shop, a number of tools and tons of projects since it is such an incredible visualization aid when designing and modding. A number of TH-camrs like yourself are very encouraging to me, for me to continue to create more content, since I have many projects and knowledge to share; it is just finding the time and consistency to move forward, inside my busy schedule. -Christian
This the best CNC get started video on TH-cam! Thanks! If you are looking for another video idea, it would be handy to have a video on getting all those 3D printed parts you mentioned at the end. Thanks!
Great video. I converted a PM25 to CNC a few years back and I wish I would have had your video then as I would have avoided many mistakes. Thanks for putting this info out!
@@adamdebowski2037 I can see why you would say that. I am considering another CNC build which is how/why I found your video. Your video will be my go to source for sure.
@@adamdebowski2037 Great question. Probably either the PM940 or PM30 as you did. I like the idea of a more robust machine like the PM 940. I see Arizona has the ball screw kits for the 940. Not sure about the Servo motor and controller requirements for the 940 yet. I need to do a bunch of additional research. Your thoughts?
@@Sam-kq2to the 940 is going to be wayyy more rigid than the PM30. The down side is max spindle speed is less than 2000. On the PM30 it is 3000. You could always upgrade that down the road, though….
machine prices have gone nuts// When i got my g4000 in 2016 i wanna say it was 1000 even.,. Now theyre 1600.. The mill i got from harbor frieght in 2018 was 1200 , the same machine cannot be had below 2200 now 4 yrs later. I ended up casting my own cnc mill from concrete, seeing as how i wanted linear rails anyway,, Entire casting was about 250 in materials , then the rails and ballscrews were another 400.. I guess what im saying is , when buying a new mill , people are getting very little for their money. Excellent work on the machine , very well executed !
Hi Rob - it sounds like I stepped into this world a little late! How do you like your casted machine? I’m wondering if you could share how you squared up the casted rail mounting surfaces on your machine. How did you make make sure all the rails would be square? Are you happy w the runout when indicating around your table travels? Thanks for the comment!
@@adamdebowski2037 How i did it was casting steel plates and box tube into the concrete.. After it was set, i then mounted the linear rails, steppers , and so on.. It was 95%square when it set ,then some .005 shims came in handy when bolting down the linear guides ( thats really when all tramming was done , it literally cannot be done when the steel box tube and plates were in the setting concrete, because you wont know how the concrete will settle ) Its very accurate for a hobby machine somewhere in the .0015 range ) , more accurate than my 6040 router, but certainly not industrial grade .. The biggest benefit was cost and rigidity , its likely as rigid as my manual mill while being about 1/2 the weight ..Ideally , it would be cast , then the steel mounting surfaces machined in a massive manual mill but that wasnt possible in the home shop.
thank you very much Adam! great information!!!! i bought the same motors, drivers and transformer, and realice that didnt protect them from the inrush current. that in the video is an NTC thermistor? what should i use to protect them? that information would be a life saver for me. thank you!!!
Closed loop motor controls will help with being more precise with your locations, right? You're referring to the control system implemented with the motor?
This is way cool, great info. I bought a big mill from pm. It was already set up as a CNC but Matt had to sell the controller to a customer that needed it to finish a job. So he sold me the machine at a big discount. I bought a Centroid for it to replace the stock controller. I have not yet started the project but am looking forward to doing so this summer.
Hey Tonyalto - sounds awesome. I didn't know you could buy a PM with motors/servos and a controller... or maybe you bought it used? Which mill did you get?
@@adamdebowski2037 Yep, they sure did sell them. Mine is a full CNC , model 940. It's big. The stand is solid cast iron. Had to bring it in the shop with the fork truck. Like I said, it has never had power hooked up. It runs a 3 phase main motor with a frequency drive so it takes single phase 240 to power up. I paid a little over 6 grand for it without the control board. Looks like 4.2" steppers with encoders.
I went on their site. They still list my basic machine and the upgrades, hardened ways, full variable speed. But they no longer have the full CNC. My guess is they quit selling them due to the issues with the control boards. Pretty sure my machine was priced around 8 grand. I'll have to reach out to them and get the whole story.
This is exactly what I was hoping for, perfect. I now have an example to maybe not follow exactly but be inspired by. As far as hardware goes I'm starting from close to zero but not quite so this was very helpful. Thank you so much!
If you’re comfortable with building the part in 3D (which you can start practicing w fusion360’s free version), you’ll do fine! Lots of good resources for fusion CAM programming on TH-cam. If you haven’t already, look up Lars Christensen (I hope I spelled his last name right) and NYCCNC!
you can save that end mill btw. depending on how bad it is you may be able to just tap it out with a flat/hex screwdriver if you tap it along the flutes, or you can use a lye solution to dissolve it
If that is aluminum in that end mill, muriatic acid (home Depot cement department) will dissolve it in minutes. I use it to remove piston material from cylinders (cast iron, chrome, nikasil) all the time. Works great. Muriatic is a trade name for hydrochloric acid. Found in cement prep/etching solution and industrial toilet bowl cleaner.
Perfect. Now I just have to reset my play back speed to 1/3 of what it was, and re-adjust my ear's audio intake comprehension & assimilation and Ill be on to it like a kid in a sweetshop. What good is a book if its not in a language you understand ?? Having sId that, Im thinking that Adam D knows milling and code like ... on deeply intimate terms. Id like to subscribe and do my upmost best to keep up, keep watching and listening and replaying, and trust in osmosis and hard work becauze.... I WANT this knowledge.... So big big thank you Adam ✔👍
Thanks for video, great explanation! I always wondered in those conversions if its needed to convert Z axis to ballscrews by any reason other than sound, why not just adding gear multiplier and connecting motor in place wheel handle in column? As far as I understand - there's no backlash in Z direction because its always under pressure from weight of a head, or you think it can be lifted up while milling with cutting forces?
You have a good point. I don't think it would be lifted while milling - most cutting forces should only pull the head down towards the table. I don't know of anyone who has converted x & y only, but I would be interested in the results!
@@adamdebowski2037 I know that this old tony while converting his MAHO did only x and y ballscrew conversion, but it was a knee-mill, not column one though.
have you had any dealings with the masso g3 touch, i have a southbend magnaturn 612 that is complete with a delta 50 controller, just out dated, everything is built heavy duty using all baldor ac servo motors and a baldor ac power supply
Nice 👍 I have not worked with a Masso personally, but I’ve only heard good things. You will be fine - just make sure to confirm you’ll have a post for it. Fusion and HSMWorks come with a Centroid post that I’ve not ever had a problem with.
The mill uses double ball nuts. I don’t think the nuts are preloaded - but you could ask Dave (arizonavideo99 on TH-cam). I got the ball screw kit from him.
9:53 - collet chuck also has a shoulder. It is higher than spindle(because of taper and variances in milling machines), but you could precise measure gap between this shoulder and spindle, then you can turn spacer on a lathe. Still not as convenient as TTS and will work only on particular mill.
Adam, currently I’m running nema 34 on the Acorn. I’ve done a lot of research but couldn’t find the answer. I’m trying to find what to set my PPR or step per revolution on the driver. Any recommendations?
@@adamdebowski2037Adam, the driver is set to 6400ppr. I’m tuning the motor to move 1” but it is really inconsistent.. average around .001 off give or take when I rerun 1” movements. I take it from the backlash?
@@TheAnt0906 yup - sounds like backlash. You can compensate for backlash in the control. Try passing one inch on the way back, and then changing directions to get back to 1 inch…. Something like: G0X0, G0X1, G0X-0.125, G0X0
Noob question: can you still use this conversion as a manual mill? I know that ball screws have very low friction, but is it straight-forward mechanical lock an axis? I have an odd foreign mill that I want to mount a power feed on, but I am thinking that I might consider swapping in a ball screw to replace the lead screw.
@@George-bb9yi Hi George not a bad question at all - you can get some motors that the shaft passes all the way through, and so you could theoretically mount a wheel to that shaft, but I don’t see it done, really. I do, however, use the mill in a semi-manual way all the time - entering simple g-code into the control and have it power feed along every axis to cut square/flat features.
This may be a silly question, but when you convert a mill to cnc are you still able to use it manually? Ive been looking for a super cheap 2 in one kind of thing and have seen mixed results
That’s a good question. Typically - not really. I often use my mill as a “manual” mill by spinning the wheel on the centroid pendant to make the axes move, but I have no hand wheels on any axes. If you’re set on having hand wheels on a little CNC mill like this, you can get servo motors with a shaft that passes all the way thru them so you can attach a hand wheel. It’s a less common setup, but can be done.
Excellent Summary. PM-728VT is another easy to convert Mill (comes stock with one shot oiling), and Precision Matthews has a bolt-on ballscrew kit for it. LinuxCNC and Mesa cards are my plan, along with TTS tooling and closed loop steppers and the Drewtronics probe.
Hi Alan - Didnt know they sold a ball screw kit for it. Seems like they’re catching on to the hobby CNC community. I’m curious how you’ll find the spindle motor. That machine sounds perfect for a spindle upgrade. Sounds like it has increased rigidity over the PM30-MV but a lower power spindle - which seems strange. Curious what you’ll think. Good luck w the build!
@@adamdebowski2037 Thanks. I'm still collecting parts. I like the brushless DC motors' variable speed and high low end torque, but I haven't really stressed the spindle much with the work I've done so far. CNC might change that. I don't have 240V so choose 120V machines. On the one hand they say it is 1hp on the other they say it requires a 120V 20A service which can easily make 2HP, so it is not consistent. It is certainly a big step up from a mini-mill.
@ “CNC” stands for “Computer Numerical Control,” and it implies that there are motors on the axes being controlled by a CNC controller. It sounds like you have a manual mill. Any manual machine can be converted to CNC… theoretically. Some more easily than others. You’d have to do some research to find out if you can install a ball screw kit for your mill with mounting brackets and shaft couplings for NEMA motors.
Hi Jerome - first thing I’d do is search for, and try to get in touch with someone who’s done it on the same mill - they’ll be able to tell you if there were any difficulties with trying to install the ball screws. Some mills have tighter clearances than others between the tables/columns that make it more challenging to physically replace lead screws with balls screws, since ball screw/nuts generally build larger…. But once you install the ball screws and motor mounts, the electrical/controls side is all the same. Does the Bridgeport have an R8 spindle? If it does, you’ll have all kinds of great tooling options.
I wish I could tell you! I’m up here in Canada and they don’t let us have too much fun with guns. Every mill on the market will be able to handle 4140 steel - it’s just a matter of how hard a cut the mill can handle. I’m personally a big fan of the pm-30. In my opinion it’s a better mill than the 728vt. The only thing the 728vt has on the pm-30 as far as I can tell is spindle rpm. Looks like it goes up to 4000 (pm30 does 3000). But the 728 has half the power. 1hp motor vs 2hp. The 728 runs on 120V and the 30 on 240V. I think the 30 is heavier/more rigid, can easily be modified for an extra 1.5” travel in Y, and I’m getting 0.001” accuracies on the 30. Check out mpmachiningusa’s channel. He does lots of gun work w/ the 30 and his machine is amazing - lots of upgrades.
@@adamdebowski2037 Thank you for your response. Originally I was considering PM-932V but that may be a bunch of overkill. Ill definitely take a look into the 30.
I’m comparing the 932v and the 30 and it seems for just a few hundred more the 932v seems nicer. I’m just not sure if it’s convertible to cnc. I really want a setup where I could do cnc and also manual.
Hi Scruffy. The short answer is yes. There are motors you can get where the shaft sticks out the back (m.aliexpress.com/item/32449717007.html?gatewayAdapt=Pc2Msite), so you can mount a hand wheel behind the motor. Alternately, you can get motors like I have and turn the jog wheel on the control pendant to manually jog an axis electronically - which is what I do when I want to use the machine “manually.”
Adam could you explain more about the lubrication on your machine? You mentioned only running the one shot oiler to the ways and not to the ball nuts. Do the ballscrews need oiling frequently or only for seldom maintenance? I'm converting a Weiss VM25L (PM25MV clone) and thought I needed to run oil lines to the ball nuts which has been difficult for packaging. Thanks!
Hi RobotGibson - I don’t lubricate the ball screws nearly as often as the ways. I give the ways a squirt every other-ish time I run the mill, and I lubricate the ball nuts (spreading some iso68 on the screw and running the ball nut over it) every few weeks or so. I check them frequently and they’re always oily - that iso68 is nice and sticky. Agreed - it’s a bit of a routing nightmare to run lines to the nuts. For me, the juice wasn’t worth the squeeze and I do it manually.
Yes. There are no hand wheels, but you can move the motors manually from the control and pendant. You can also enter g code manually - line by line - to move the machine (in the control)
No I’m just using a laptop. Same computer that runs Fusion and Solidworks. I’ve never had a problem, but they say you shouldn’t, and that you should have a dedicated computer. I’d never do that. Being able to post code and upload it right to the control without USB sticks is great.
Great timing. Between the recent video on probing parts for dimensions and the "Make your own parts" video I was back to looking at current mill options after debating about a G0704 years ago (and holding off). Can't fit (or afford, or power) a Haas TM1 so maybe this is the time..
Hey any update on the Linux CNC? Did you switch? What current controller do you recommend? Still the nema34 12nm motors a good idea? I want to convert a pm728 to a CNC mill, what you think?
I'm still using the centroid Acorn, and the more I use it, the more I love it. I am biased, but I would still recommend the Centroid Acorn, and still recommend all the same hardware you see in this video. In my opinion there are two good reasons for chosing LinuxCNC over Centroid Acorn. #1 Cost, and #2 If you want to control more than 4 stepper/servo motors.
Can you recommend a starter set of Collets + Bits? I'm getting a SuperFly Cutter, and when in stock, the s5000LED TTS Wired CNC Probe. What 5 others should I use? Doing Knife handle scales, and some blade steel. Eventually Titanium scales...but not yet.
Hi Phiz. For steel, get yourself a few stubby 1/4” 4 flute coated carbide endmills with a 0.030” radius. That’ll work well in G10, too. Practice with them until you’re confident, then let your jobs dictate what endmills to buy. I would hold off on buying more tooling until you know what you need. I wouldn’t buy 5 endmills “just because.” You’ll never use them all. In general, I use 3 flute uncoated tooling in aluminum, and 4 flute coated tooling in steel. Stubbier is always better if you can get away with it, and a radius will produce better floor finishes and last longer. I generally don’t use larger than 1/4” tooling in steel - but if you’ve got a bigger mill, you could do it.
@@adamdebowski2037 Thanks! I'm going the route you did mostly. PM-30 with an Acorn controller with some ClearPath servos. Looking into the bits again now. I'll take a look at the Stubby 1/4" coated carbide in the future. I'll start in aluminum so I can learn to make the fixture plates. My mill will be here end of October! I have the CNC parts working. Just need to install the Ball screw kit from Arizonavideo99 and calibrate everything once it arrives.
Ah man, I bought 6nm closed loop steppers for my x/y, the pm kit looked like it only used nema 23 on x and y with a 34 on the z. I wonder if I can still get the 34's and make them fit :(
There are several tool holders to choose from. I use mostly ER20 Collet TTS tool Holders. You'd use ER32 if you need to hold tools larger than 1/2", and ER 16 for smaller tools. In my opinion, the smaller the better if you can get away with it. Gives more clearance.
It depends on the length of the cylinder head. The Y travel/table is unsupported, so it can rock a little as the center of gravity of the table passes the supported edge. But with your gibbs properly tightened, I bet you could. What is the flatness requirement for that surface>?
@@adamdebowski2037 a quick google says "A good rule for flatness is that surface flatness, measured in thousandths of an inch, should never exceed the number of cylinders on each bank across the length of the block. For example, no block or cylinder head should exceed . 003" out-of-flat if there are 3 cylinders, as there would be in an inline-3 or V6 engine." But I would personally say within .002" Looking to getting into milling/machining, to assist with my garage tinkering and I love your videos, Great stuff!!
ideally you would want a perfectly flat mating surface for the head gasket. Especially for performance applications with forced induction. I just think it would be awesome if I could do this in my garage instead of shelling out for a shop that may or may not give me the perfection i'm looking for.
@@utlaw-bk3wz this machine would be a little too small for a very flat cut at 20” long. Ideally you’d want to use a fly cutter, which has a big diameter - maybe 3” or more - so a 20” long cut would need to travel about 26”, and that’s outside the travels of this machine.
I looked into Linux CNC but bought PlanetCNC in the end. PlanetCNC looked less complicated. There is only one version and it has wear compensation, Probing routines and it can handle 4th axis and tool changer.
@@hendrixlp1970 that’s a difficult question to answer. To get up and running, it’s the cost of the mill, the ball screws, the CNC controller, all the electrical, and a Compressor, So maybe 5-6K USD - but I’m In Toronto, and our Canadian pesos don’t get us as far - plus there are always higher shipping and customs/brokerage fees and I did other things like have an electrician run power and install a pony panel in my garage - then all the tooling (tool holders, endmills, tool boxes etc) starts adding up but it all happens in time. $40 here, $100 there…. Constantly… I don’t like talking about costs because the bottom line can discourage people… but if you can swallow the initial 5-6K pill, everything else happens on your own schedule and only if you want to keep upgrading… not to mention, you can make a pretty penny making parts for people if you have the demand. I just finished a job that took three days after work in the shop and paid almost $1000. I know people with my machine that make much more than that in niche markets and have way more demand than I do… so the costs are kind of relative. Personally, this stuff brings me great joy and that’s why I do it - I do jobs for other people from time to time, but only to help justify the next upgrade. If you want to get up and running to start a business, I’d say just buy a tormach or better (a used fadal or HAAS tool room mill or something). If you love tinkering - do a CNC conversion - it’s a lot of fun and you learn a ton along the way. I think that was a long winded way of not answering your question, but I stick by it - it’s the truth! Cheers 🍻 - Adam
@@adamdebowski2037 Hey Adam, thank you for your detailed response. You did in fact answer my question as I was asking to determine if this is the route that I would want to go, or buy a RTR tormach. I'm mostly interested to make my own car parts or even parts for my own 3d printer. I'm really looking forward to your future videos. These couple of videos have helped me more than a guy making cnc videos, telling you his motivational life story for 20 minutes while calling himself Titan and not really teaching you much about the machines. So thank you!
Adam, PM is now selling what they call an "ultra precision mill" (PM-728VT) in this form factor/price class that also seems like a pretty compelling choice for eventual CNC conversion... The trade-offs seem to be: motor only 1HP (although can reach 4k RPM in vanilla setup), ~150 lb. less mass, ~5 in. less X travel, and modest price increase. It is not exactly clear how one would quantify the "extra precision" in order to decide if it is worth $700 more. Based on your descriptions, I get the feeling that "more precise" does not necessarily mean "more rigid" ... maybe it is just capable of slightly better surface finish when cutting within the parameters/limitations of the machine/spindle? In your videos, it looks like your PM-30MV is pretty much handling everything you have thrown at it. The almuminum work looks very good and much faster than I expected! Have you ever found yourself thinking "I wish this machine was 'more precise'"? Do you sometimes find yourself wishing the PM-30MV had even more mass?
Hi HydrationAppreciator - you’re asking all the right questions. I’ve been skeptical of the 728VT, but have ultimately heard good things about them, and have never used or seen one. For me, a little less X travel wouldn’t be a show stopper, but the 1HP and less mass might be. Not only do I find the 2hp motor on the 30 to be underpowered (then again - it IS just a hobby machine - how much can you really expect?), I have the same problem with the lack of rigidity. You’ve really got to dial back the feeds/speeds on these machines to cater to the low power and rigidity. That being said, I’ve heard the same things about Tormach machines. Re the accuracy of the PM30, I’m consistently amazed at how accurate it is, but I think that’s more of a testament to the ball screws and servos. I haven’t ever checked the straightness of a straight cut or something like that - to check how straight the tables are travelling. The PM30 is accurate to within about a thousandth or two easily when I measure final dimensions. Any more than that is usually a setup issue.
Hello Adam. I am thinking about buying a mill for CNC conversion in near future. But there is a problem in my case. I am from Slovakia so PM mills aren’t on the list, unfortunately. Can you advise me about some mills which was successfully converted to CNC machines in Europe. I didn’t find much of manuals or projects from people who tried it and was happy to post about it. Only some videos of X,Y,Z calibration and cutting. No documentation as how they do it or what was the process on that specific mill for conversion. I really don’t know which mill is suitable for that in Europe market to do the conversion. I know that I can convert any mill into CNC. But the time for research, development and testing is out of the box now cuz (as a electro engineering student) I doesn’t have much. If you have any tips to look for I’ll be grateful. Have a nice day and btw great detailed video.
Hi Jacob. Check out the Centroid Forum: centroidcncforum.com/ There is a "success stories" section where people from all over the world share their successful implementations of Centroid CNC controls - many of which are conversions from manual machines to CNC.
Really good video, thanks for the share. You did not say anything about that spindle motor though, did you have to do anything to it? Does the cam board just connect the the stock controller?
I usually have to watch videos in 2x speed to feel like I'm not wasting my life. This is the first time I had to slow it down to .75x to try to not miss anything. This is the level of production I hope to achieve when I start making videos. I'm thoroughly excited to know you did exactly what I intend to do (Precision Matthews conversion) and saved me so much leg work. Thank you! Keep up the good work!
Thanks for the great feedback! I'm glad youre enjoying the videos & wish you good luck in your PM conversion!
I have no idea what I am doing here but I watched the entire video because it was that good.
Hahaha - maybe my favourite comment yet. Thank you for the kind words and I’m glad you enjoyed it!
Adam, you certain threw down a ton of great information in less than 14 mins. This is awesome for someone like me who wants to get into CNC, thank you :-)
Hi WizardofHyd - I’m glad you found the video useful! Good luck with the build!
Excellent information, spectacularly presented. From all the research I have been doing, your recommendations, advice and hardware choices are spot on.
Thanks for the kind words! Very glad you enjoyed it :)
Unbelievably concise speaking -- thank you so much.
Glad you enjoyed it, Owen!
he speaks too fast. imagine non native speakers trying to understand him. When you have a world wide audience it matters.
Good compact information without time fillers between words. Thanks for experience and efficiency.
Thanks for watching! I’m glad you found it helpful 👍 cheers - Adam
Adam - great video...this is among the best CNC conversion videos on YT. You helped me lock in several decisions I was on the fence with - thank you. Can't wait to see more.
That's great! I'm glad you found it useful. Best of luck on your build, and make sure to share some videos along the way! Care to share what you're building?
Great video man!! You’re really good at synthesising information and keeping it engaging
Hi Peter - thanks for the great feedback. That's good to hear - I'm pretty new to making these videos & can't help but feel I sound like the most boring guy on the planet. I'm trying to get better - Thanks for the encouragement! Cheers - Adam
Amazing and to the point. This might be the best overview of how to build this thing in 2022. Good work!
Hi Tamur - thanks for the positive feedback! I'm glad you found the video useful.
Huge nerd doing it hahahaha, well nerd me up.
Cheers mate, i was just about to pull the trigger in a HM48 Hafco mill with power feed, DRO and stand, which now decided to convert to a CNC having found a conversion in Australia.
Your vid just saved me thousands in showing what i dont need, or can ditch to knock $1000 plus off the mill. What ill save will pretty much cover the cost of the conversion.
Thankyou mate. Good job.
Thanks for sharing that! One of my viewers just shared that he is using the Royal R8 quick change tooling system. It looks a little pricy but check it out. Looks like it has all the same benefits of TTS but even faster tool changes - you don’t have to touch the draw bar at all. It’s the first time I’m hearing about it but it looks freakin sweet. Worth some research. Good luck on your build!
Magnificent work. Brilliant resourcefulness. The intelligence in this community is highly impressive. Keep up the stunning leaps and bounds tricks.
Thanks for the great feedback and kind words, Bow Tie Bandit. I love this community, too, and I'm glad you enjoyed the video! Cheers - Adam
This press has worked like a charm for my projects th-cam.com/users/postUgkxajoEbapTfqWaadnqb04h6U576yxXp-FE . I didn't even secure it to my table top, mainly due to the fact that I was using a 15 lbs drill vise. It's not flimsy at all as to what others have claimed it to be. Make sure the locking nuts and levers are secured and there won't be any issues with light pressure and patience. I was able to drill through aluminum, plastic, and steel (steel took a while) with no problems at all. Yeah it took a little longer than a regular drill press, but I don't have the space OR the money for one.The instruction manual was worthless, but luckily assembling the press was intuitive. However, the manual would be good for ordering replacement parts if needed. There is a nice breakdown of the parts that are included in the kit. Before ordering, make sure it is compatible with your unit, it is clearly stated what models the press is compatible with.This was an excellent purchase for $40!!
This is a great video. I was a machinist back in the mid 90's and you reminded me of lots of things I haven't thought about in a long time. I'm looking to build my own cnc machine right now and this helped thanks man.
Thanks for commenting! I’m glad you found it useful. Good luck on your build and come back to share the journey if you can. I’m always curious about what everyone’s building. Cheers 🍻
@adamdebowski2037 You bet! I know how to build a rock solid accurate machine, I'm just stuck on what controller to pick. From what I can tell I need a controller that works well with a software that can take my Gcode out of solidworks cam..... I'm going to run nema 23 or maybe 34?? closed loop motors. Any thoughts on openbuilds BlackBox Motion Control System for the brains? Or just go with acorn? I like the looks of it but its a bit pricey. I look forward to more of your videos! Thanks again 🙂
@@-BlackBird7 sounds like the perfect storm! If you can build a straight/ rigid machine, I wouldn’t worry too much about the controller. Unfortunately, Acorn is the only platform I’ve ever used. I have friends that swear by linuxcnc and do awesome work. Nothing I ever do on the acorn is something they can’t do on LinuxCNC. I don’t know anything about the BlackBox system, and I’m not sure if solidworks CAM has a post of centroid/Acorn, but Fusion CAM and HSMWorks CAM (a plugin for solidworks) do. Closed loop steppers have been so great to great for me. I’d go Nema 34 because you’ll never have to worry, but people do use Nema 23 on X and Y axes. You should send Dave (from Arizonavideo99 on TH-cam) an email. He knows a lot about sizing motors for these machines.
my heart is beating very fast the whole time, this is amazing
I really appreciate the content you're putting out. Quality production and useful info. Glad to see TH-cam search is still returning great small creators.
Thanks for the kind words, Alex - I’m glad, too! Haha. I’m happy you found the video useful. Cheers - Adam 🍻
VERY well covered. Your narration is clear, concise, technical and fast-paced and very professional sounding, along with your editing, no time wasted with only relevant shots. Thank you for sharing the sources and prices you used. I have the HFT version of the Grizzly G0705 currently manual, but thinking of a CNC changeover. I have a PlasmaCAM for years now, and a couple years ago learned a Mach3 6040 CNC at work and purchased the same unit for at home, along with a PrintrBot at home that was given to me. Work just got a nearly new Haas VF-1, so I am learning that as well. Looking forward to more of your videos; your style reminds me of The Thought Emporium: he could be your evil twin.
Hi Vondeliusc - thanks for the incredibly positive feedback. I'm glad you were able to take something away from the video. It sounds like we live in similar worlds. From your previous messages, I'm gathering that you're likely using Solidworks for the CAD, is that right? What are you using for CAM? Do you ever use Fusion360 for CAD? Cheers - Adam
@@adamdebowski2037 Adam-I went from DOS CAD of some sort to AutoCAD 12 for windows/DOS (600' long sheetrock dryers ~1995) to AutoCAD boolean solids/Mechanical Desktop (class motor coaches) to Inventor (lightly) to SW2007 (modeling aircraft/systems+architectural/steel detailing) and am expert in up to SolidWorks 2021. Moving into CAM, I added a lateral co-transition to Fusion 360 (still model primarily in SW and import). Last year I was VERY happy to learn that HSMWorks is basically a module to SolidWorks, which is fundamentally the same a F360 CAM, since the SW CAM is not so good. F360 CAD is still pretty immature, but the CAM is the best, intuitive, complete, and logical. For personal use, I use SW2013 with HSMWorks currently, with no expectation to change; but I am fluent up through SW2021. I also use VCarve Pro/Aspire. As far as personal projects, I have partially modeled our home, my shop, a number of tools and tons of projects since it is such an incredible visualization aid when designing and modding. A number of TH-camrs like yourself are very encouraging to me, for me to continue to create more content, since I have many projects and knowledge to share; it is just finding the time and consistency to move forward, inside my busy schedule. -Christian
This the best CNC get started video on TH-cam! Thanks! If you are looking for another video idea, it would be handy to have a video on getting all those 3D printed parts you mentioned at the end. Thanks!
Excellent video. Very efficiently made to balance time, crucial information, directions and resources.
Thanks Luke! I’m glad you enjoyed it 🍻
My man. This video is so densely packed with no nonsense info! Thank you.
Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks, Aaron - Cheers!
being through the same journey and this is a really nice summary. It would have helped me a lot in the beginning. Well done!
Beautiful concise! I’m showing this video to my Pops right away. We’re probably starting this process soon!
Great! It’s a fun journey. Enjoy the process!!
Great video. I converted a PM25 to CNC a few years back and I wish I would have had your video then as I would have avoided many mistakes. Thanks for putting this info out!
To be honest, I wish I had this video, too! Hoping it saves others the pain we’ve endured!
@@adamdebowski2037 I can see why you would say that. I am considering another CNC build which is how/why I found your video. Your video will be my go to source for sure.
@@Sam-kq2to which machine are you planning on converting?
@@adamdebowski2037 Great question. Probably either the PM940 or PM30 as you did. I like the idea of a more robust machine like the PM 940. I see Arizona has the ball screw kits for the 940. Not sure about the Servo motor and controller requirements for the 940 yet. I need to do a bunch of additional research. Your thoughts?
@@Sam-kq2to the 940 is going to be wayyy more rigid than the PM30. The down side is max spindle speed is less than 2000. On the PM30 it is 3000. You could always upgrade that down the road, though….
Hell of a channel! The best radio voice I've heard in recent years. Keep making more videos. Thank you and subscribed!
Haha - thank you, kalpetkoff!
Heck I'm overwhelmed with information ....thank you
Fantastic video! Enjoyed every bit of it.
Amazing content! Your mill is so cool. Thanks for the tips on what to buy and avoid! I’m inspired to do this myself.
Nice! I hope you do - it’s a lot of fun and it’s amazing what you can make!
Thank you for this great video. It has inspired me to convert my small knee mill.
You’re very welcome - that’s great to hear. I’m positive you won’t regret it! Come back to share your progress if you’re willing to 👍👍
Really great information, jam-packed into "only" 14 minutes. Thank you.
Thanks for the positive feedback, Greg! I'm glad you found it helpful :)
Thank you.
machine prices have gone nuts// When i got my g4000 in 2016 i wanna say it was 1000 even.,. Now theyre 1600.. The mill i got from harbor frieght in 2018 was 1200 , the same machine cannot be had below 2200 now 4 yrs later. I ended up casting my own cnc mill from concrete, seeing as how i wanted linear rails anyway,, Entire casting was about 250 in materials , then the rails and ballscrews were another 400.. I guess what im saying is , when buying a new mill , people are getting very little for their money. Excellent work on the machine , very well executed !
Hi Rob - it sounds like I stepped into this world a little late! How do you like your casted machine? I’m wondering if you could share how you squared up the casted rail mounting surfaces on your machine. How did you make make sure all the rails would be square? Are you happy w the runout when indicating around your table travels? Thanks for the comment!
@@adamdebowski2037 How i did it was casting steel plates and box tube into the concrete.. After it was set, i then mounted the linear rails, steppers , and so on.. It was 95%square when it set ,then some .005 shims came in handy when bolting down the linear guides ( thats really when all tramming was done , it literally cannot be done when the steel box tube and plates were in the setting concrete, because you wont know how the concrete will settle ) Its very accurate for a hobby machine somewhere in the .0015 range ) , more accurate than my 6040 router, but certainly not industrial grade .. The biggest benefit was cost and rigidity , its likely as rigid as my manual mill while being about 1/2 the weight ..Ideally , it would be cast , then the steel mounting surfaces machined in a massive manual mill but that wasnt possible in the home shop.
Amazing video. They should give you a kick back. Thanks
Cheers! Appreciate it :)
thank you very much Adam! great information!!!! i bought the same motors, drivers and transformer, and realice that didnt protect them from the inrush current. that in the video is an NTC thermistor? what should i use to protect them? that information would be a life saver for me. thank you!!!
It is not an NTC thermistor, though it would make sense to use one! Please share if you do - I might switch to it.
Closed loop motor controls will help with being more precise with your locations, right?
You're referring to the control system implemented with the motor?
Yes - you got it 👍
Great! Thanks for the reply Adam! Really cool project.@@adamdebowski2037
This is way cool, great info. I bought a big mill from pm. It was already set up as a CNC but Matt had to sell the controller to a customer that needed it to finish a job. So he sold me the machine at a big discount. I bought a Centroid for it to replace the stock controller. I have not yet started the project but am looking forward to doing so this summer.
Hey Tonyalto - sounds awesome. I didn't know you could buy a PM with motors/servos and a controller... or maybe you bought it used? Which mill did you get?
@@adamdebowski2037 Yep, they sure did sell them. Mine is a full CNC , model 940. It's big. The stand is solid cast iron. Had to bring it in the shop with the fork truck. Like I said, it has never had power hooked up. It runs a 3 phase main motor with a frequency drive so it takes single phase 240 to power up. I paid a little over 6 grand for it without the control board. Looks like 4.2" steppers with encoders.
Pretty sure they were having QC issues with the control boards/software. I hope the Centroid is a good, trouble free fix.
I went on their site. They still list my basic machine and the upgrades, hardened ways, full variable speed. But they no longer have the full CNC. My guess is they quit selling them due to the issues with the control boards. Pretty sure my machine was priced around 8 grand. I'll have to reach out to them and get the whole story.
@@tonyalto1014 thanks for the info! Learn something new every day…
This is exactly what I was hoping for, perfect. I now have an example to maybe not follow exactly but be inspired by. As far as hardware goes I'm starting from close to zero but not quite so this was very helpful. Thank you so much!
Real nice video just a side note if you have a problem with inrush current you can use a choke or ballast to limit it
Great stuff. Much appreciated.
great video
im a cnc mill guy
i have done most everything cnc mill
no 5 axis tho
i been thinking about doing this myself
Highly recommend! It’s a fun journey
Great rundown man. The actual cnc ing like how you copy parts with the probe and program the machine is the intimidating part.
If you’re comfortable with building the part in 3D (which you can start practicing w fusion360’s free version), you’ll do fine! Lots of good resources for fusion CAM programming on TH-cam. If you haven’t already, look up Lars Christensen (I hope I spelled his last name right) and NYCCNC!
Very interesting video
Glad you enjoyed the video - cheers!
you can save that end mill btw. depending on how bad it is you may be able to just tap it out with a flat/hex screwdriver if you tap it along the flutes, or you can use a lye solution to dissolve it
Yeah, try dissolving it using a lye
Definitely try using lye. if you try to pry the aluminium from the flutes it may come off with the edge of the endmill
If that is aluminum in that end mill, muriatic acid (home Depot cement department) will dissolve it in minutes. I use it to remove piston material from cylinders (cast iron, chrome, nikasil) all the time. Works great. Muriatic is a trade name for hydrochloric acid. Found in cement prep/etching solution and industrial toilet bowl cleaner.
Thank you for sharing! I have a identical mill and maybe one day I will convert it too!
wow just bumped into this video for CNC. That was very informative thank you, I will definitely look into some of these sites.
Cheers! I hope you find them helpful 👍
Perfect.
Now I just have to reset my play back speed to 1/3 of what it was, and re-adjust my ear's audio intake comprehension & assimilation and Ill be on to it like a kid in a sweetshop. What good is a book if its not in a language you understand ??
Having sId that, Im thinking that Adam D knows milling and code like ... on deeply intimate terms. Id like to subscribe and
do my upmost best to keep up, keep watching and listening and replaying, and trust in osmosis and hard work becauze.... I WANT this knowledge.... So big big thank you Adam ✔👍
Haha - my pleasure - thanks for the feedback!
this is an incredible video, what a resource! thank you!
Thanks for video, great explanation! I always wondered in those conversions if its needed to convert Z axis to ballscrews by any reason other than sound, why not just adding gear multiplier and connecting motor in place wheel handle in column? As far as I understand - there's no backlash in Z direction because its always under pressure from weight of a head, or you think it can be lifted up while milling with cutting forces?
You have a good point. I don't think it would be lifted while milling - most cutting forces should only pull the head down towards the table. I don't know of anyone who has converted x & y only, but I would be interested in the results!
@@adamdebowski2037 I know that this old tony while converting his MAHO did only x and y ballscrew conversion, but it was a knee-mill, not column one though.
Great job Adam. Now I need the time and the money...
Cheers! It’s a process - a fun one, but still a process. You can definitely go bit by bit.
have you had any dealings with the masso g3 touch, i have a southbend magnaturn 612 that is complete with a delta 50 controller, just out dated, everything is built heavy duty using all baldor ac servo motors and a baldor ac power supply
Nice 👍 I have not worked with a Masso personally, but I’ve only heard good things. You will be fine - just make sure to confirm you’ll have a post for it. Fusion and HSMWorks come with a Centroid post that I’ve not ever had a problem with.
You can limit inrush current with an NTC thermistor - pretty elegant solution compared to a relay.
That's a great point. I'd like to look into that. Do they heat up significantly? Wouldn't want a glowing cherry in the cabinet....
Thanks very much- may get into hobby machining- this was extremely helpful. Also, nice Triumph in the garage. I've got a '16 Speed Triple R myself :)
Nice! Love the triples 😁
What an awesome video! SUPER informative.
Cheers 🍻
thank you for surprisingly well organized video.
is your cnc mill uses double ball nuts?
and is it preloaded ball nuts or not?
The mill uses double ball nuts. I don’t think the nuts are preloaded - but you could ask Dave (arizonavideo99 on TH-cam). I got the ball screw kit from him.
@@adamdebowski2037 thanks for quick reply.
I really enjoyed this video. Please post more
Glad you did! I sure will 👍
Do you need a power supply for every driver to avoid using a transformer?
Yes. Or I suppose a big one to power all three. But typically people install 3 individual power supplies.
@@adamdebowski2037 I appreciate it
@@adamdebowski2037 well done videos btw !!
@@DieselsandDirtbags Thanks very much for the kind words!
9:53 - collet chuck also has a shoulder. It is higher than spindle(because of taper and variances in milling machines), but you could precise measure gap between this shoulder and spindle, then you can turn spacer on a lathe. Still not as convenient as TTS and will work only on particular mill.
That's an interesting idea. Have you ever seen somebody do it? I haven't seen it, but it sure sounds like it would work.
Adam, currently I’m running nema 34 on the Acorn. I’ve done a lot of research but couldn’t find the answer. I’m trying to find what to set my PPR or step per revolution on the driver. Any recommendations?
More than likely you should be at 6400 pulses per rev. Try that out. If you're wrong, it'll be obvious in the machine travels.
I’ll give it a try. Thanks!
@@adamdebowski2037Adam, the driver is set to 6400ppr. I’m tuning the motor to move 1” but it is really inconsistent.. average around .001 off give or take when I rerun 1” movements. I take it from the backlash?
@@TheAnt0906 yup - sounds like backlash. You can compensate for backlash in the control.
Try passing one inch on the way back, and then changing directions to get back to 1 inch…. Something like: G0X0, G0X1, G0X-0.125, G0X0
Hello Adam, I have a question: What diameter of screws do you mount on the axles and what number are the bearings?
Hi Naneko - they’re 20mm screws. I got them from Arizona99 check it out: www.arizonacnckits.com/pm-30-cnc-kit.html
Noob question: can you still use this conversion as a manual mill? I know that ball screws have very low friction, but is it straight-forward mechanical lock an axis? I have an odd foreign mill that I want to mount a power feed on, but I am thinking that I might consider swapping in a ball screw to replace the lead screw.
@@George-bb9yi Hi George not a bad question at all - you can get some motors that the shaft passes all the way through, and so you could theoretically mount a wheel to that shaft, but I don’t see it done, really.
I do, however, use the mill in a semi-manual way all the time - entering simple g-code into the control and have it power feed along every axis to cut square/flat features.
@@adamdebowski2037 Thanks!
This may be a silly question, but when you convert a mill to cnc are you still able to use it manually?
Ive been looking for a super cheap 2 in one kind of thing and have seen mixed results
That’s a good question. Typically - not really. I often use my mill as a “manual” mill by spinning the wheel on the centroid pendant to make the axes move, but I have no hand wheels on any axes. If you’re set on having hand wheels on a little CNC mill like this, you can get servo motors with a shaft that passes all the way thru them so you can attach a hand wheel. It’s a less common setup, but can be done.
Excellent Summary. PM-728VT is another easy to convert Mill (comes stock with one shot oiling), and Precision Matthews has a bolt-on ballscrew kit for it. LinuxCNC and Mesa cards are my plan, along with TTS tooling and closed loop steppers and the Drewtronics probe.
Hi Alan - Didnt know they sold a ball screw kit for it. Seems like they’re catching on to the hobby CNC community. I’m curious how you’ll find the spindle motor. That machine sounds perfect for a spindle upgrade. Sounds like it has increased rigidity over the PM30-MV but a lower power spindle - which seems strange. Curious what you’ll think. Good luck w the build!
@@adamdebowski2037 Thanks. I'm still collecting parts. I like the brushless DC motors' variable speed and high low end torque, but I haven't really stressed the spindle much with the work I've done so far. CNC might change that. I don't have 240V so choose 120V machines. On the one hand they say it is 1hp on the other they say it requires a 120V 20A service which can easily make 2HP, so it is not consistent. It is certainly a big step up from a mini-mill.
Could you do this with a PM-1054TS/TV?
I also have a PM-30 that I converted with Linuxcnc. Glad to see we basically came to the exact same conclusions about everything 😁
any videos ryan?
Hi. Can I do this with the Proxxon FF230 CNC desktop mill?
@@Verton_D it sounds like it already is a CNC mill.
@@adamdebowski2037 I mean I want to automate it with the servos and stuff. Mine is a completely manual CNC mill.
@ “CNC” stands for “Computer Numerical Control,” and it implies that there are motors on the axes being controlled by a CNC controller. It sounds like you have a manual mill. Any manual machine can be converted to CNC… theoretically. Some more easily than others. You’d have to do some research to find out if you can install a ball screw kit for your mill with mounting brackets and shaft couplings for NEMA motors.
@@adamdebowski2037 oops, sorry I'm new to all this. Thanks for guiding!
Wanna convert a harbor freight benchtop mill any advice?
Hi Jerome - first thing I’d do is search for, and try to get in touch with someone who’s done it on the same mill - they’ll be able to tell you if there were any difficulties with trying to install the ball screws. Some mills have tighter clearances than others between the tables/columns that make it more challenging to physically replace lead screws with balls screws, since ball screw/nuts generally build larger…. But once you install the ball screws and motor mounts, the electrical/controls side is all the same. Does the Bridgeport have an R8 spindle? If it does, you’ll have all kinds of great tooling options.
How are the PM machines for gunsmithing? WOuld this machine be able to handle 4140 steel? Personally looking at PM-728VT
I wish I could tell you! I’m up here in Canada and they don’t let us have too much fun with guns. Every mill on the market will be able to handle 4140 steel - it’s just a matter of how hard a cut the mill can handle.
I’m personally a big fan of the pm-30. In my opinion it’s a better mill than the 728vt. The only thing the 728vt has on the pm-30 as far as I can tell is spindle rpm. Looks like it goes up to 4000 (pm30 does 3000). But the 728 has half the power. 1hp motor vs 2hp. The 728 runs on 120V and the 30 on 240V. I think the 30 is heavier/more rigid, can easily be modified for an extra 1.5” travel in Y, and I’m getting 0.001” accuracies on the 30. Check out mpmachiningusa’s channel. He does lots of gun work w/ the 30 and his machine is amazing - lots of upgrades.
@@adamdebowski2037 Thank you for your response. Originally I was considering PM-932V but that may be a bunch of overkill. Ill definitely take a look into the 30.
I’m comparing the 932v and the 30 and it seems for just a few hundred more the 932v seems nicer. I’m just not sure if it’s convertible to cnc. I really want a setup where I could do cnc and also manual.
Newbie here. Dumb question. Once a person converts the mill to CNC, is manual operation still functional?
Hi Scruffy. The short answer is yes. There are motors you can get where the shaft sticks out the back (m.aliexpress.com/item/32449717007.html?gatewayAdapt=Pc2Msite), so you can mount a hand wheel behind the motor. Alternately, you can get motors like I have and turn the jog wheel on the control pendant to manually jog an axis electronically - which is what I do when I want to use the machine “manually.”
Adam could you explain more about the lubrication on your machine? You mentioned only running the one shot oiler to the ways and not to the ball nuts. Do the ballscrews need oiling frequently or only for seldom maintenance? I'm converting a Weiss VM25L (PM25MV clone) and thought I needed to run oil lines to the ball nuts which has been difficult for packaging. Thanks!
Hi RobotGibson - I don’t lubricate the ball screws nearly as often as the ways. I give the ways a squirt every other-ish time I run the mill, and I lubricate the ball nuts (spreading some iso68 on the screw and running the ball nut over it) every few weeks or so. I check them frequently and they’re always oily - that iso68 is nice and sticky. Agreed - it’s a bit of a routing nightmare to run lines to the nuts. For me, the juice wasn’t worth the squeeze and I do it manually.
May I ask what equipment you used to take this clear picture?
Hi @workaholicada319 - I think that one was taken w/ my Lumix GH4.
Can you use the mill manually with the cnc conversion
Yes. There are no hand wheels, but you can move the motors manually from the control and pendant.
You can also enter g code manually - line by line - to move the machine (in the control)
In two words, Great Video!
Great video mate. I learned a lot., thanks.
Cheers 🍻
"And look like a huge nerd doing it." lol
Just bought a 3d printer and nerding out the whole house, I've never liked plastic so much!
Couldn’t agree more!
Wasn't there a amazon link to a stand made out of square tubing at some point? I'm looking through all of your videos, but i can't find it anymore.
Hey there - no - wasn’t me. I don’t know if an Amazon stand. Let me know if you find one!
@@adamdebowski2037 Thanks for the answer, maybe I watched some other PM 30 Conversion :D
Theres a bunch of small cnc mills coming out everyday it seems and rhe market is getting confusing. Would you still go this route now or not?
I would! Out of the box, the PM30 is the best machine at its price point in my opinion. Were there any machines you were considering as alternatives?
What was the total of everything you have purchased thus far?
I prefer going through life without knowing that number…. all the prices are in the video if you look closely when I’m scrolling through the websites.
Question, I'm turning my mill into a cnc. I'm looking at acorn. Are you using the centroid nuc cnc PC with your laptop? Or do you need it?
No I’m just using a laptop. Same computer that runs Fusion and Solidworks. I’ve never had a problem, but they say you shouldn’t, and that you should have a dedicated computer. I’d never do that. Being able to post code and upload it right to the control without USB sticks is great.
Great timing. Between the recent video on probing parts for dimensions and the "Make your own parts" video I was back to looking at current mill options after debating about a G0704 years ago (and holding off). Can't fit (or afford, or power) a Haas TM1 so maybe this is the time..
Hey any update on the Linux CNC? Did you switch? What current controller do you recommend? Still the nema34 12nm motors a good idea? I want to convert a pm728 to a CNC mill, what you think?
I'm still using the centroid Acorn, and the more I use it, the more I love it. I am biased, but I would still recommend the Centroid Acorn, and still recommend all the same hardware you see in this video.
In my opinion there are two good reasons for chosing LinuxCNC over Centroid Acorn. #1 Cost, and #2 If you want to control more than 4 stepper/servo motors.
Can you recommend a starter set of Collets + Bits? I'm getting a SuperFly Cutter, and when in stock, the s5000LED TTS Wired CNC Probe. What 5 others should I use? Doing Knife handle scales, and some blade steel. Eventually Titanium scales...but not yet.
Hi Phiz. For steel, get yourself a few stubby 1/4” 4 flute coated carbide endmills with a 0.030” radius. That’ll work well in G10, too. Practice with them until you’re confident, then let your jobs dictate what endmills to buy. I would hold off on buying more tooling until you know what you need. I wouldn’t buy 5 endmills “just because.” You’ll never use them all.
In general, I use 3 flute uncoated tooling in aluminum, and 4 flute coated tooling in steel. Stubbier is always better if you can get away with it, and a radius will produce better floor finishes and last longer. I generally don’t use larger than 1/4” tooling in steel - but if you’ve got a bigger mill, you could do it.
@@adamdebowski2037 Thanks! I'm going the route you did mostly. PM-30 with an Acorn controller with some ClearPath servos. Looking into the bits again now. I'll take a look at the Stubby 1/4" coated carbide in the future. I'll start in aluminum so I can learn to make the fixture plates. My mill will be here end of October! I have the CNC parts working. Just need to install the Ball screw kit from Arizonavideo99 and calibrate everything once it arrives.
@@Phiz787 sounds like you’re on the right track! Good luck and keep us posted with how it all goes!
@@adamdebowski2037 Do you have some of the CAD/STL Files for your 3d printed organizers, and the TTS collet holder?
What kind of backlash do you see on your machine?
Thanks
Around a thousandth in both X and Y
Thank you. Really great video.
Spectacular video 👌🏻
Ah man, I bought 6nm closed loop steppers for my x/y, the pm kit looked like it only used nema 23 on x and y with a 34 on the z. I wonder if I can still get the 34's and make them fit :(
Yup - you'll be fine with that, too :)
@@adamdebowski2037 Ok cool, thanks man, your videos are great and super helpful, I cant wait to get my mill set up and start breaking stuff!
@@CryoftheProphet Haha - that’s the right attitude! Thanks for the feedback, I’m glad you enjoyed it :)
Do you have a part number on the tool holder? Also awesome content!
There are several tool holders to choose from. I use mostly ER20 Collet TTS tool Holders. You'd use ER32 if you need to hold tools larger than 1/2", and ER 16 for smaller tools. In my opinion, the smaller the better if you can get away with it. Gives more clearance.
Hey adam question, Could you accurately re surface an engines cylinder head with your setup? Aluminum head in particular?
It depends on the length of the cylinder head. The Y travel/table is unsupported, so it can rock a little as the center of gravity of the table passes the supported edge. But with your gibbs properly tightened, I bet you could. What is the flatness requirement for that surface>?
@@adamdebowski2037 a quick google says "A good rule for flatness is that surface flatness, measured in thousandths of an inch, should never exceed the number of cylinders on each bank across the length of the block. For example, no block or cylinder head should exceed . 003" out-of-flat if there are 3 cylinders, as there would be in an inline-3 or V6 engine."
But I would personally say within .002"
Looking to getting into milling/machining, to assist with my garage tinkering and I love your videos, Great stuff!!
ideally you would want a perfectly flat mating surface for the head gasket. Especially for performance applications with forced induction. I just think it would be awesome if I could do this in my garage instead of shelling out for a shop that may or may not give me the perfection i'm looking for.
I would say they are roughly 20"
@@utlaw-bk3wz this machine would be a little too small for a very flat cut at 20” long. Ideally you’d want to use a fly cutter, which has a big diameter - maybe 3” or more - so a 20” long cut would need to travel about 26”, and that’s outside the travels of this machine.
I looked into Linux CNC but bought PlanetCNC in the end. PlanetCNC looked less complicated. There is only one version and it has wear compensation, Probing routines and it can handle 4th axis and tool changer.
What CAM software are you using in Solidworks?
HSMWorks. It is identical to Fusion CAM
Well done.
Pretty dam good video. Right to the point. Thanks for putting this together.
Always great to hear - thanks for letting me know!
You gained a new subscriber today. Thank you!
Thanks for the sub :)
@@adamdebowski2037 How much would you say that you have in your setup total if you dont mind me asking?
@@hendrixlp1970 that’s a difficult question to answer. To get up and running, it’s the cost of the mill, the ball screws, the CNC controller, all the electrical, and a Compressor, So maybe 5-6K USD - but I’m In Toronto, and our Canadian pesos don’t get us as far - plus there are always higher shipping and customs/brokerage fees and I did other things like have an electrician run power and install a pony panel in my garage - then all the tooling (tool holders, endmills, tool boxes etc) starts adding up but it all happens in time. $40 here, $100 there…. Constantly… I don’t like talking about costs because the bottom line can discourage people… but if you can swallow the initial 5-6K pill, everything else happens on your own schedule and only if you want to keep upgrading… not to mention, you can make a pretty penny making parts for people if you have the demand. I just finished a job that took three days after work in the shop and paid almost $1000. I know people with my machine that make much more than that in niche markets and have way more demand than I do… so the costs are kind of relative. Personally, this stuff brings me great joy and that’s why I do it - I do jobs for other people from time to time, but only to help justify the next upgrade. If you want to get up and running to start a business, I’d say just buy a tormach or better (a used fadal or HAAS tool room mill or something). If you love tinkering - do a CNC conversion - it’s a lot of fun and you learn a ton along the way. I think that was a long winded way of not answering your question, but I stick by it - it’s the truth! Cheers 🍻 - Adam
@@adamdebowski2037 Hey Adam, thank you for your detailed response. You did in fact answer my question as I was asking to determine if this is the route that I would want to go, or buy a RTR tormach. I'm mostly interested to make my own car parts or even parts for my own 3d printer. I'm really looking forward to your future videos. These couple of videos have helped me more than a guy making cnc videos, telling you his motivational life story for 20 minutes while calling himself Titan and not really teaching you much about the machines. So thank you!
@@hendrixlp1970 Haha - I'm glad you found it useful! Cheers!
Your videos are sooo good!
Thanks!
Adam, PM is now selling what they call an "ultra precision mill" (PM-728VT) in this form factor/price class that also seems like a pretty compelling choice for eventual CNC conversion... The trade-offs seem to be: motor only 1HP (although can reach 4k RPM in vanilla setup), ~150 lb. less mass, ~5 in. less X travel, and modest price increase.
It is not exactly clear how one would quantify the "extra precision" in order to decide if it is worth $700 more. Based on your descriptions, I get the feeling that "more precise" does not necessarily mean "more rigid" ... maybe it is just capable of slightly better surface finish when cutting within the parameters/limitations of the machine/spindle?
In your videos, it looks like your PM-30MV is pretty much handling everything you have thrown at it. The almuminum work looks very good and much faster than I expected!
Have you ever found yourself thinking "I wish this machine was 'more precise'"? Do you sometimes find yourself wishing the PM-30MV had even more mass?
Hi HydrationAppreciator - you’re asking all the right questions. I’ve been skeptical of the 728VT, but have ultimately heard good things about them, and have never used or seen one. For me, a little less X travel wouldn’t be a show stopper, but the 1HP and less mass might be. Not only do I find the 2hp motor on the 30 to be underpowered (then again - it IS just a hobby machine - how much can you really expect?), I have the same problem with the lack of rigidity. You’ve really got to dial back the feeds/speeds on these machines to cater to the low power and rigidity. That being said, I’ve heard the same things about Tormach machines.
Re the accuracy of the PM30, I’m consistently amazed at how accurate it is, but I think that’s more of a testament to the ball screws and servos. I haven’t ever checked the straightness of a straight cut or something like that - to check how straight the tables are travelling. The PM30 is accurate to within about a thousandth or two easily when I measure final dimensions. Any more than that is usually a setup issue.
@@adamdebowski2037 Thanks!
Are those 4" or 5" vices? What would you recommend?
@@JJJohnson-e7h it’s a 5” and I would recommend it. Check out Shars vises.
@@adamdebowski2037 Perfect. Just ordered the base 30MV for a CNC conversion. I like your dual vice setup. Thanks.
Incredible!!!
Very nice jobs!!!
Thank you - Cheers!
Hello Adam. I am thinking about buying a mill for CNC conversion in near future. But there is a problem in my case. I am from Slovakia so PM mills aren’t on the list, unfortunately. Can you advise me about some mills which was successfully converted to CNC machines in Europe. I didn’t find much of manuals or projects from people who tried it and was happy to post about it. Only some videos of X,Y,Z calibration and cutting. No documentation as how they do it or what was the process on that specific mill for conversion. I really don’t know which mill is suitable for that in Europe market to do the conversion. I know that I can convert any mill into CNC. But the time for research, development and testing is out of the box now cuz (as a electro engineering student) I doesn’t have much. If you have any tips to look for I’ll be grateful. Have a nice day and btw great detailed video.
Hi Jacob. Check out the Centroid Forum: centroidcncforum.com/
There is a "success stories" section where people from all over the world share their successful implementations of Centroid CNC controls - many of which are conversions from manual machines to CNC.
Really good video, thanks for the share. You did not say anything about that spindle motor though, did you have to do anything to it? Does the cam board just connect the the stock controller?
No - I control the motor manually from the mill. I turn it on manually and then start the program.
Adam, great stuff, thank you
Glad you enjoyed it, Louis!
Wow great stuff, I was looking at a Tiag Tools 2018 CNC
Thank you Adam this was very helpful! Great video!
Hi Glen - I’m glad to hear you found it useful. Cheers! 🍻
Great video. Thank you