That rock cut was definitely a spur off of the Pennsylvania Railroad. I found old aerial photos from 1938 and 1947 that prove it. The aerial photo from 1947 shows rail cars on the spur.
I remember passing under this trestle whenever going to my grandparent's in Kulpmont. Every trip, I would wait in anticipation to see "the trestle." As a kid it was a spectacular site. As an adult, i still think of it when traveling Rt 61. I had done cursory searches to find out if it was RDG or PRR, glad to know you solved the mystery for me. Would love to know the last it saw traffic and when it was officially demolished. Thanks so much for this video, this one had a direct connection to fond memories that included the back of a '63 Bel Air station wagon and no seat belts.
I can relate to that feeling Brian. When I was younger my family would have a reunion every summer in western PA. I would love going through all of the tunnels. I can imagine as a youngster the size of the trestle would be daunting. If I were making that trip as youngster the trestle would be the visual highlight as well.
Thank you Brian. I will have to keep my eyes open for some fossils. I've seen some fern fossils over the years that others have found. Would love to find my own. Have a great day Brian!
THIS! was a great find Kevin....wow, these remains are just awesome. The rock cut, the R.O.W., the bridge remains, the ties still in ground, DRILL MARKS! Haha....you and Stella sure did seem to have a great time and we appreciate you bringing it to us. You sure do have the best areas for rail exploration!
Thank you Russ!! There is almost to much down here.... na just kidding. This was an all new area for me and had me scratching my head a couple of times. That makes it more fun. Stella is really well behaved off the leash and I love having her along.
Thank you very much Steve!! I was pleased with all the findings this weekend. I have to wrap up the LV Pottsville branch videos and then it's right back up to this area.
If you look at old mining maps (dated 1924), there was a mine operation in the Wolf Creek Valley where the SCMA Wolf Creek treatment plant now exists. There was actually a shaft right next to the existing water tank up there. A railroad spur (Wolf Creek Colliery Branch) is shown coming down the grade and into the Wolf Creek valley most likely from the PRR due to the elevation as compared to the Reading lines also shown on the mine map. The cut just above the bridge abutment for the PRR trestle crossing Route 61 was probably for this spur to connect into the PRR. The mine map does not extend up to the old trestle to confirm this wye connection but it gets close enough that this is definably what it was.
Excellent information here, thank you very much. I start so many things and then get caught up in doing something else. I really want to get back up there soon. There are so many graded areas on Google maps that I'm sure they have to be old mining railroads. I can see what you're talking about as far as a grade in the Wolf Creek valley. Probably going to be easier once the leaves come down. I need to see what's to the north of 81 as well. That's where I left off with the PRR.
I was looking at the Historical Aerials website and saw that the PRR crossed over the Reading RR and Rt 61 where the lanes are divided by a center median. The photo shows what looks like a branch coming off the PRR on the north side of the bridge and goes to what was probably the mine that you stated. Awesome-I just subscribed to your channel as I enjoy looking at former railroads and mines.
Good afternoon Frank. I just took a look and see exactly what you are talking about. It looks like the PRR crossed the trestle and then shoved south on the branch to the mine. I continued to follow the bed south and it comes to an abrupt drop off. Granted it's been decades since last operation but I think the branch ended right at the mine. Thank you for subscribing.
Hi there Bob. I do indeed like collecting the spikes. Have a couple in the collection. Reading, Erie, Catawissa, just to name a few. Still trying to find an intact insulator.
@ I love the abandoned railroads, I went to Suscon , eaglesmere, kinzui bridge, centralia ! The area I like is some you traveled, where the growth is so high you can’t believe a railroad traveled there! Then u metal detect and rewarded ! Priceless ❤️ keep up the fabulous work you rock
OK Kevin - here we go again. It turns out that I have a detailed CONRAIL map from August 31, 1978 but CONRAIL had been in existence for two years at that time so some abandonments had taken place. It wasn’t too bad since I think that it was in 1982 that Congress got weary of the enormous losses and have clearance for wholesale abandonments and sell offs. The Reading branch from Pottsville Jct. south of Pottsville that went northeast and serviced Port Carbon, New Phil’s and Middleport doesn’t show up clearly on the map although RBM&N still operates it so this map isn’t anywhere nearly as precise as the 1966 Reading Co. map. The line from Pottsville to St. Clair is still in and goes beyond St. Clair apparently to Frackville. From Frackville north to the connection with the old Reading main the line color switches to light blue which means “service provided under contract” which I think is a nice way of saying that PA or the county was subsidizing operations. It looks like the old LV line from Weatherill Jct. to Delano was also being operated under contract. The RDG Catawissa branch at least as far as Ringtown still existed and was being serviced under contract as was the old CNJ line from Haucks on the Catawissa down to Jim Thorpe. Maybe this helps? The RBM&N system map is the most precise of all but it doesn’t identify where its lines came from - RDG, LV, CNJ and maybe even the hunk of the L&NE that the CNJ had inherited. It does not show any RBM&N service north out of St. Clair, though.
Oh boy! I've been doing some searching on the Wikipedia maps and it's starting to clear up a little but wow there was a lot going on here. I looked at some historical aerial pictures and I definitely see a great shot of the Dark Water trestle. I can also clearly follow the Pennsylvania grade way up to the northeast. I-81 now sits on top of the row. I had a feeling that most of this was on the way out by the time Conrail got it. It was most likely in the way of building up route 61. I'm also thinking there were some narrow gauge beds running around the mountain. I appreciate all this digging you're doing for us. It is helping greatly.
I did some searching on railfan websites and turned up some old posts. According to one website the PRR started cutting the Schuylkill Secondary track back in 1968. Hurricane Agnes in 1972, which I remember personally for all the destruction, caused the Reading to abandon a lot of service up in the coal mining areas. What also may be of use to you is that one poster described the trolley this ran from St Clair to Frackville as “up on the hillside above the road”. I’m having fun today on the PA Railroad Museum bus trip to ride the Northern Central and the Walkersville Southern.
Nice video. Very scenic area. I bet it's great for camping. Say, I was wondering, has Stella become a mom as of yet? I bet she would present some really cute puppies into this world.
Thank you!! I actually saw a fire ring right in this area so it is a camping location for someone. As far as Stella goes. No puppies for her. We rescued her from a bad home when she was about 8 months old. We had her fixed at a year. She'll be two years old pretty soon. No puppies though.
I was there back on December 30th Kevin…. I may have sent you a photo or two of the old pump house near the Dunkin Donuts. At least I think it was a pump house.
Yes!! I walked right by the gate and the pump house. The gated tunnel looks awesome. I can squeeze through the gate to see what's in there. I don't do great with small areas but I'm going to give it a shot. There is so much up here. I climbed up to the pump house and looked around. I saw some signs that said active mine site, keep away. Is that possible, are they still mining in St Clair?
@@kevinsalsbury2118 Famous Reading Anthracite is still mining on the Burma Road Tract Northeast of St. Clair. They've converted a portion of it to an off-road vehicle park, but there's still mining going on at the far NE end (or at least there was a few years ago).
That rock cut was definitely a spur off of the Pennsylvania Railroad. I found old aerial photos from 1938 and 1947 that prove it. The aerial photo from 1947 shows rail cars on the spur.
Thank you Randy. I figured as much. Can you tell how far it ran south from the picture?
From what I can see with the old photos it might have went for no longer than a mile off the mainline.
That makes sense from what I saw hiking around up there. Have you ever been to that spot?
No. Haven't been there yet but want to get there soon before the one set of abutments disappears from the construction going on there.
Are they really tearing them out?
I remember passing under this trestle whenever going to my grandparent's in Kulpmont. Every trip, I would wait in anticipation to see "the trestle." As a kid it was a spectacular site. As an adult, i still think of it when traveling Rt 61. I had done cursory searches to find out if it was RDG or PRR, glad to know you solved the mystery for me. Would love to know the last it saw traffic and when it was officially demolished. Thanks so much for this video, this one had a direct connection to fond memories that included the back of a '63 Bel Air station wagon and no seat belts.
I can relate to that feeling Brian. When I was younger my family would have a reunion every summer in western PA. I would love going through all of the tunnels.
I can imagine as a youngster the size of the trestle would be daunting. If I were making that trip as youngster the trestle would be the visual highlight as well.
They started pulling up the rails in '72, the Schuykill Haven PRR overpass bridge was razed in 75, pics are on the web.
Thank you 😊
Thoroughly enjoyed this weekends exploration! Nicely done! The area is also known for prehistoric plant fossils in the St Clair shale formations!
Thank you Brian. I will have to keep my eyes open for some fossils. I've seen some fern fossils over the years that others have found. Would love to find my own. Have a great day Brian!
THIS! was a great find Kevin....wow, these remains are just awesome. The rock cut, the R.O.W., the bridge remains, the ties still in ground, DRILL MARKS! Haha....you and Stella sure did seem to have a great time and we appreciate you bringing it to us. You sure do have the best areas for rail exploration!
Thank you Russ!! There is almost to much down here.... na just kidding. This was an all new area for me and had me scratching my head a couple of times. That makes it more fun. Stella is really well behaved off the leash and I love having her along.
Completely amazing set of videos this weekend
Thank you very much Steve!!
I was pleased with all the findings this weekend. I have to wrap up the LV Pottsville branch videos and then it's right back up to this area.
Wonderful video. Thank you for sharing this with us.
Thank you Sammy. Trying to get back up that way soon.
If you look at old mining maps (dated 1924), there was a mine operation in the Wolf Creek Valley where the SCMA Wolf Creek treatment plant now exists. There was actually a shaft right next to the existing water tank up there. A railroad spur (Wolf Creek Colliery Branch) is shown coming down the grade and into the Wolf Creek valley most likely from the PRR due to the elevation as compared to the Reading lines also shown on the mine map. The cut just above the bridge abutment for the PRR trestle crossing Route 61 was probably for this spur to connect into the PRR. The mine map does not extend up to the old trestle to confirm this wye connection but it gets close enough that this is definably what it was.
Excellent information here, thank you very much. I start so many things and then get caught up in doing something else. I really want to get back up there soon. There are so many graded areas on Google maps that I'm sure they have to be old mining railroads. I can see what you're talking about as far as a grade in the Wolf Creek valley. Probably going to be easier once the leaves come down. I need to see what's to the north of 81 as well. That's where I left off with the PRR.
Yes, please keep exploring and digging deep on that upper line! You're right- stay away from "the road more travelled!"
No doubt in my mind Russ. I'm going top shelf!!
I was looking at the Historical Aerials website and saw that the PRR crossed over the Reading RR and Rt 61 where the lanes are divided by a center median. The photo shows what looks like a branch coming off the PRR on the north side of the bridge and goes to what was probably the mine that you stated. Awesome-I just subscribed to your channel as I enjoy looking at former railroads and mines.
Good afternoon Frank. I just took a look and see exactly what you are talking about. It looks like the PRR crossed the trestle and then shoved south on the branch to the mine. I continued to follow the bed south and it comes to an abrupt drop off. Granted it's been decades since last operation but I think the branch ended right at the mine. Thank you for subscribing.
Kevin, Daman! Fellow spikeroo collector just like me! Spikes need loving too!😂 All hail the spike
Hi there Bob. I do indeed like collecting the spikes. Have a couple in the collection. Reading, Erie, Catawissa, just to name a few. Still trying to find an intact insulator.
@ I love the abandoned railroads, I went to Suscon , eaglesmere, kinzui bridge, centralia ! The area I like is some you traveled, where the growth is so high you can’t believe a railroad traveled there! Then u metal detect and rewarded ! Priceless ❤️ keep up the fabulous work you rock
Thank you Bob, merry Christmas
@@kevinsalsbury2118 Merry Christmas 🎁🎄
OK Kevin - here we go again. It turns out that I have a detailed CONRAIL map from August 31, 1978 but CONRAIL had been in existence for two years at that time so some abandonments had taken place. It wasn’t too bad since I think that it was in 1982 that Congress got weary of the enormous losses and have clearance for wholesale abandonments and sell offs.
The Reading branch from Pottsville Jct. south of Pottsville that went northeast and serviced Port Carbon, New Phil’s and Middleport doesn’t show up clearly on the map although RBM&N still operates it so this map isn’t anywhere nearly as precise as the 1966 Reading Co. map.
The line from Pottsville to St. Clair is still in and goes beyond St. Clair apparently to Frackville. From Frackville north to the connection with the old Reading main the line color switches to light blue which means “service provided under contract” which I think is a nice way of saying that PA or the county was subsidizing operations. It looks like the old LV line from Weatherill Jct. to Delano was also being operated under contract. The RDG Catawissa branch at least as far as Ringtown still existed and was being serviced under contract as was the old CNJ line from Haucks on the Catawissa down to Jim Thorpe.
Maybe this helps? The RBM&N system map is the most precise of all but it doesn’t identify where its lines came from - RDG, LV, CNJ and maybe even the hunk of the L&NE that the CNJ had inherited. It does not show any RBM&N service north out of St. Clair, though.
Oh boy! I've been doing some searching on the Wikipedia maps and it's starting to clear up a little but wow there was a lot going on here. I looked at some historical aerial pictures and I definitely see a great shot of the Dark Water trestle. I can also clearly follow the Pennsylvania grade way up to the northeast. I-81 now sits on top of the row.
I had a feeling that most of this was on the way out by the time Conrail got it. It was most likely in the way of building up route 61. I'm also thinking there were some narrow gauge beds running around the mountain. I appreciate all this digging you're doing for us. It is helping greatly.
I did some searching on railfan websites and turned up some old posts. According to one website the PRR started cutting the Schuylkill Secondary track back in 1968. Hurricane Agnes in 1972, which I remember personally for all the destruction, caused the Reading to abandon a lot of service up in the coal mining areas.
What also may be of use to you is that one poster described the trolley this ran from St Clair to Frackville as “up on the hillside above the road”.
I’m having fun today on the PA Railroad Museum bus trip to ride the Northern Central and the Walkersville Southern.
Hello Kevin
I enjoy watching your videos.
Thank you very much Randy.
Nice video. Very scenic area. I bet it's great for camping.
Say, I was wondering, has Stella become a mom as of yet? I bet she would present some really cute puppies into this world.
Thank you!! I actually saw a fire ring right in this area so it is a camping location for someone. As far as Stella goes. No puppies for her. We rescued her from a bad home when she was about 8 months old. We had her fixed at a year. She'll be two years old pretty soon. No puppies though.
I was there back on December 30th Kevin…. I may have sent you a photo or two of the old pump house near the Dunkin Donuts. At least I think it was a pump house.
Yes!! I walked right by the gate and the pump house. The gated tunnel looks awesome. I can squeeze through the gate to see what's in there. I don't do great with small areas but I'm going to give it a shot. There is so much up here. I climbed up to the pump house and looked around. I saw some signs that said active mine site, keep away. Is that possible, are they still mining in St Clair?
@@kevinsalsbury2118 Famous Reading Anthracite is still mining on the Burma Road Tract Northeast of St. Clair. They've converted a portion of it to an off-road vehicle park, but there's still mining going on at the far NE end (or at least there was a few years ago).
Abutment for the Darkwater trestle. Schuykill County Historical society was offering tours.
I saw an article about this on the internet when I was researching the area this morning. I would have loved to have gone on that hike.
Great Channel be safe Kevin.
You're very kind. Thank you Nick.
Kevin said “black snake” and “packed it full” 😂🤣 that ruled!
I through these gems in here just to see if you pick up on them 😆🤣
You should still be able see the tracks on USGS maps of this area.
You are absolutely right Tom. Thank you.
Great video Kevin!
Hey Matt. Thank you very much. Hope all is well.
All is great my friend!
Awesome Matt. Glad to hear that.
A very puzzling area, I would say.
Indeed it is. With the amount of mining going on everywhere, it seems like the whole mountain side is terraced. Lots of fun rooting around though.
I don’t think that was a bridge not enough radius to turn a train. Great video
Thank you Michael. I agree with you. They weren't turning a train here.
The mountain laurel will be beautiful here next month
Right about the time we should be heading back there.
@@kevinsalsbury2118 sweet 🥰
Rock outcrops are a good place to find Timber rattlers.
Yet to come across one but I'm always looking out.
❤❤❤
Thank you Kashif 😊
You have Stella to tell the snake to stay away
It worked. The thing was pretty freaking big!!
@@kevinsalsbury2118 😆🤣😂
Explore Centralia
Please 🙏
I can make that happen.
@@kevinsalsbury2118 😊😊😊😎😎😎😎💜💜💜
Great videos , horrible filming equipment
Thank you.
The phone isn't the greatest but it gets the job done.
Bring a crowbar
I have a Johnson Bar you can have