Edit: I don't want to make this about Neo (or his intelligence). The reasons why Undead is OP are numerous, however it's not worth wasting our times explaining it at every impasse. The onus is actually on the developers to realize this - unfortunately they (Blizzard) do not care. To outline some easy fixes though, consider the following (I have thought about these carefully, and have seen other players think them reasonable as well): - DK base stats are too strong - not only is he the healer and the heart of UD, but he is hard to kill, which is at the genesis of the imbalance. A contrast between him and Paladin (I realize they serve different roles/importances, but the contrast is stark) highlights just how high the differential is. Resolution: reduce base stats, either base HP or Mana or both. Armor is fine (due to lore). - Critical: Increase coil cooldown. This is an outside-the-box suggestion - one way to make the DK less overwhelming, is to reduce his ability to heal universally. It's true that DK has a projectile for healing (vs. Paladin insta-heal), but DK base stats and aura are much too strong and compensate more than enough. - Lich Nova is clearly broken, this needs to be nerfed. I don't know how any serious player doesn't think this. I think the best players of other races don't comment on these aspects, because it makes them sound like complaining - but they surely see it themselves. - Lich 3rd spell beyond broken, this is the most ludicrous part as someone watching WC3 streams and seeing the casters not realize this for years. Think about it: a spell intended to be used to generate mana, has the dual role of easily steeling XP from opponents - this is probably the most blatant source of imbalance I can think of. - Undead units are flabbergastingly too strong all around. Crypt fiends: too high base damage and too high hit points. Banshees too strong - best casters in the game. Aboms, despite being a common laughing stock, are the best damage sponges in the game, which is what melee units are really for in WC3. I'm not suggesting other races don't have some problems. Ex: DH is too strong, mana nerf is anti-play and anti-competitive. But so much of the overpowered-ness is in the hands of UD. By no means do I expect, or actually care at all, if any of these changes ever get implemented. It's not our jobs to police WC3 balance - that's on Blizzard. And it's completely fine if they don't care, ultimately it's on the gaming community to move on from a game, if it remains in this state of imbalance for too long.
Spoiler alert: Can someone explain to me how “Army spend” is calculated at the end of the game? Cause in every game hu spends on army ton more… Great example game 2 just t1 fighting close game hu wins . Ud army spend 4k hu army spend 10k. Forty spend 2.5c more resources on army in that game?
Seems to be some bug. Forty definitely didn't spend 10k on army in the 2nd game, since he has only mined 7.6k, plus spent quite a number on items & buildings. My wild guess would be it has something to do with militia calls being handled incorrectly.
Yeah, maybe it also calculates items cost like clarity potions? Or maybe Millita also counts as army while Acolyte does not? To be honest back to Warcraft or someone expert could make a video to explain how it is calculated.
hello everyone! I haven't watched warcraft for a while, please tell me what elements of the patch made undead to use a CL+expo instead of the usual Dk+Lich+harras
It is meta now. Its too hard to defend your expo and harass his with any other hero. CL allows you to defend with some ghouls and skeles while sending your beetles and a few ghouls to slow doen his expo.
It has. What you can do is a) nova + impale opponent dk and kill it or b) you can only use ud units and coil cant harm you! See? Easy , glad i could help you
literally anything human race have is counter to coil. Holylight is just better overall. Stormbolt is much deadlier. Staffs midair. HP pots. Orb to reduce coil healing. Even just starting an am vs dk grants literally freewin vs dk as he just place expand with we+militia and it's auto-secured while footies can easily stop ud from expanding. Or even pick panda and kill whole army/buildings while dk can coil only 1 unit at once. Choose your way of answering coil. It's just "pick random@win vs ud"
SPOILER Game 4 - if he had saved that MK there would have been a chance, right? Question to the better players. Why not focus statues first with gryphs? I mean they disappear in milliseconds with one volley.
@@arielindenburg7893 15 years ago was 2009. And wc3 earnings for 2009 were: 214K$ Orcs 119K$ Alliance 105.9K$ NE 36K$ UD 24K$ Random literally ud was MUCH STRONGER than humans.
@@nightyonetwothree I always used to say that once someone who can use hu to its near full potential comes we are fked .This is exactly what is happening
Because a 5-0 is pure dominance. 1-4 is almost as good but 5-0 means you allowed zero maps to be taken. Nothing against Forti, he also made a comment after that this is a Forti that has shown, "He can dominate UDs". You can't just end his comment where you want to spin a fake story. :)
@@NhanTran-ks1cd And all of those heroes have ton of mana sort of… dk has 1 active, lich can get mana , impale cost very little and there is statues so it’s even more terrifying
@@nightyonetwothree If you go holy bolt + bash with am passive maxed it truly cost nothing, but that 2 hero combo and you rather get bolt + clap and now you are running out of mana. Ud gets statues as mentioned. Blizzard cost no mana for sure especially for am but again : 1. You will have to sacrifice early game if you rush it or have to retrain 2. It does close to no dmg in 1 sec while impale is not channeling provides stun doesn’t hit your units. But yes if we are talking about lvl 7 am with maxed aura and maxed blizzard it’s devastating skill with such a spam capability. Again in all of your examples you talk about either sacrificing good skill and/or having another hero provide mana. Yeah if you max bm and am and use it all on mk it will spam skills… ud does it on every hero stand alone with insta nukes and just 1 statue without sacrificing good skills or early game…
@@nightyonetwothree Yes in game 2 undead used exactly and i mean exactly 0 mana potions while am was running around spending skill points on brilliance aura and still having mana issues:) did you even watched games or just saying random stuff? Also ud 3 hero nuke combo being terrifying is not a bashing of race or player you don’t need to be so defensive… you know what is terrifying also? Blade with lvl 7+ 4 claws good auras and some defensive items … see ? Just chill dude not everything and everyone is trying to attack you :) we are just talking about how terrifying 3 nukes are… you can swap one hero with naga same argument so chill
![WC3 | LB Final | [HU] HawK vs War3Orcer0 [ORC] | B Cup Season 15](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/r0Ylr_15Y84/mqdefault.jpg)
![WC3 | LB Final | [HU] HawK vs War3Orcer0 [ORC] | B Cup Season 15](/img/tr.png)
![WC3 | Grandfinal | [ORC] Starbuck vs HawK [HU] | B2W Weekly Cup #140](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/V4u484wAUj0/mqdefault.jpg)
![WC3 - [ORC] Lyn vs Fortitude [HU] - GRAND FINAL - Warcraft 3 All-Star League - S1 - M3](/img/n.gif)
waiting for balance-experts in comment section to appear
they did before you commented
Yea now experts are saying beatles are OP as they have predicted years ago.
UD imba
Happy imba imba
27:35 - this isn't real! It can't be!
These games are insanely entertaining. Loving the new meta
When I see Happy vs Forti ...then I see a Real Time Anime Fight ♥♥♥ X'D
Thank you ALL LEGEND!!!!
Again what a serie between this two ! The pic of WC 3 skills in 2024 ! GG :)
Game 3 was overwhelming on forti
GG
Hell yea, another ez win for Happy
I didn't even watch the match yet
Once again B2W won’t stream when Forti owned happy 4-1 hmmm
back2warcraft is kinda glazing fortitude so much lately
Great prayers❤
bro wtf was that game 2. lmao never seen anything like that before.
It was epic nonstop fighting
Edit: I don't want to make this about Neo (or his intelligence). The reasons why Undead is OP are numerous, however it's not worth wasting our times explaining it at every impasse. The onus is actually on the developers to realize this - unfortunately they (Blizzard) do not care.
To outline some easy fixes though, consider the following (I have thought about these carefully, and have seen other players think them reasonable as well):
- DK base stats are too strong - not only is he the healer and the heart of UD, but he is hard to kill, which is at the genesis of the imbalance. A contrast between him and Paladin (I realize they serve different roles/importances, but the contrast is stark) highlights just how high the differential is.
Resolution: reduce base stats, either base HP or Mana or both. Armor is fine (due to lore).
- Critical: Increase coil cooldown. This is an outside-the-box suggestion - one way to make the DK less overwhelming, is to reduce his ability to heal universally. It's true that DK has a projectile for healing (vs. Paladin insta-heal), but DK base stats and aura are much too strong and compensate more than enough.
- Lich Nova is clearly broken, this needs to be nerfed. I don't know how any serious player doesn't think this. I think the best players of other races don't comment on these aspects, because it makes them sound like complaining - but they surely see it themselves.
- Lich 3rd spell beyond broken, this is the most ludicrous part as someone watching WC3 streams and seeing the casters not realize this for years. Think about it: a spell intended to be used to generate mana, has the dual role of easily steeling XP from opponents - this is probably the most blatant source of imbalance I can think of.
- Undead units are flabbergastingly too strong all around. Crypt fiends: too high base damage and too high hit points. Banshees too strong - best casters in the game. Aboms, despite being a common laughing stock, are the best damage sponges in the game, which is what melee units are really for in WC3.
I'm not suggesting other races don't have some problems. Ex: DH is too strong, mana nerf is anti-play and anti-competitive. But so much of the overpowered-ness is in the hands of UD.
By no means do I expect, or actually care at all, if any of these changes ever get implemented. It's not our jobs to police WC3 balance - that's on Blizzard. And it's completely fine if they don't care, ultimately it's on the gaming community to move on from a game, if it remains in this state of imbalance for too long.
@@mountainking212 Humans are much stronger.
Feels like if forti wins early game he typically wins. If even or happy upper hand early, he wins
Spoiler alert:
Can someone explain to me how “Army spend” is calculated at the end of the game? Cause in every game hu spends on army ton more…
Great example game 2 just t1 fighting close game hu wins . Ud army spend 4k hu army spend 10k. Forty spend 2.5c more resources on army in that game?
Seems to be some bug.
Forty definitely didn't spend 10k on army in the 2nd game, since he has only mined 7.6k, plus spent quite a number on items & buildings.
My wild guess would be it has something to do with militia calls being handled incorrectly.
@@andreylong1869
It’s calculating something but what xD and why is in game 2 10k while x2 more duration games just 15k xD
Yeah, maybe it also calculates items cost like clarity potions?
Or maybe Millita also counts as army while Acolyte does not?
To be honest back to Warcraft or someone expert could make a video to explain how it is calculated.
@@TheSuperColonel
Video would be great!
I don’t know 10k is more than he mined do maybe lumber is counted too + starting present? Still too much no?
hello everyone! I haven't watched warcraft for a while, please tell me what elements of the patch made undead to use a CL+expo instead of the usual Dk+Lich+harras
Is crypt lord the meta now? Can someone explain what happened
It is meta now. Its too hard to defend your expo and harass his with any other hero. CL allows you to defend with some ghouls and skeles while sending your beetles and a few ghouls to slow doen his expo.
I think its similar to archmage = fast expo and summon unit
Spoiler tower shield.
Offline mode forti is still undefeated
Amazing and funny games :D
I wish the game had an answer to coil.
It has. What you can do is a) nova + impale opponent dk and kill it or b) you can only use ud units and coil cant harm you! See? Easy , glad i could help you
literally anything human race have is counter to coil. Holylight is just better overall. Stormbolt is much deadlier. Staffs midair. HP pots. Orb to reduce coil healing. Even just starting an am vs dk grants literally freewin vs dk as he just place expand with we+militia and it's auto-secured while footies can easily stop ud from expanding. Or even pick panda and kill whole army/buildings while dk can coil only 1 unit at once.
Choose your way of answering coil. It's just "pick random@win vs ud"
@@nightyonetwothree
I am 80-90% with you on this one but don’t think it’s as bad “literally pick random and win” but yeah overall nice summary.
@@josuepereira9782 i wish the game had an answer to water elementals.
Dw bro just wait until youre on t2 and you can buy wand of negation and use both charges and STILL need a few more hits to take out 1 wele😂@cadukizzi
SPOILER
Game 4 - if he had saved that MK there would have been a chance, right?
Question to the better players. Why not focus statues first with gryphs? I mean they disappear in milliseconds with one volley.
33:40 3 impale in a row and still has mana left!
This matchup is so imbalance it is painful to watch, the Undead must play a lot better than Human to win. Humans too strong.
Justice after 15 years of where UD was much stronger than HU
@@arielindenburg7893 15 years ago was 2009. And wc3 earnings for 2009 were:
214K$ Orcs
119K$ Alliance
105.9K$ NE
36K$ UD
24K$ Random
literally ud was MUCH STRONGER than humans.
@@nightyonetwothree I always used to say that once someone who can use hu to its near full potential comes we are fked .This is exactly what is happening
@@nightyonetwothree you mean because of the top humans being insanely good? Look at the average win rates
Spoiler shield 🛡️
Awesome Game 2
1:13:20 it’s pretty obvious to me….The one who won the series and plays a weaker race?
Flying machine bombs in game 3 could have gotten so many killsm....
Happy did a good job on making Forti think he's going destro making flying machines useless.
marketplace ftw
UD too OP
GG
Spoiler shield
goooooooooooooo
wtf is that fanboy intro? "last 2 won by fortitude (one 1-4), BUT THE ONE BEFORE WAS SUCH A SHOW OF DOMINANCE, HAPPY IN KILLER SHAPE OMG WOW"
Because a 5-0 is pure dominance. 1-4 is almost as good but 5-0 means you allowed zero maps to be taken. Nothing against Forti, he also made a comment after that this is a Forti that has shown, "He can dominate UDs". You can't just end his comment where you want to spin a fake story. :)
Impale, Nova, Coil...How horrifying!
@@NhanTran-ks1cd
And all of those heroes have ton of mana sort of… dk has 1 active, lich can get mana , impale cost very little and there is statues so it’s even more terrifying
@@Biobin123 if impale cost very little, then blizzard and holybolt cost nothing at all.
@@nightyonetwothree
If you go holy bolt + bash with am passive maxed it truly cost nothing, but that 2 hero combo and you rather get bolt + clap and now you are running out of mana. Ud gets statues as mentioned.
Blizzard cost no mana for sure especially for am but again : 1. You will have to sacrifice early game if you rush it or have to retrain 2. It does close to no dmg in 1 sec while impale is not channeling provides stun doesn’t hit your units. But yes if we are talking about lvl 7 am with maxed aura and maxed blizzard it’s devastating skill with such a spam capability.
Again in all of your examples you talk about either sacrificing good skill and/or having another hero provide mana.
Yeah if you max bm and am and use it all on mk it will spam skills… ud does it on every hero stand alone with insta nukes and just 1 statue without sacrificing good skills or early game…
@@Biobin123 if you watched series, happy is buying all manapots available to just cast those impales, coils etc. Didnt see humans do the same
@@nightyonetwothree
Yes in game 2 undead used exactly and i mean exactly 0 mana potions while am was running around spending skill points on brilliance aura and still having mana issues:) did you even watched games or just saying random stuff?
Also ud 3 hero nuke combo being terrifying is not a bashing of race or player you don’t need to be so defensive… you know what is terrifying also? Blade with lvl 7+ 4 claws good auras and some defensive items … see ? Just chill dude not everything and everyone is trying to attack you :) we are just talking about how terrifying 3 nukes are… you can swap one hero with naga same argument so chill
fortitude is so noob just tower without tower he is nothing
game 3 was just UD disgrace display, after 20years, still nothing has been done to tone down this shit.
Undead kit really is OP. This game should be reworked for all races as only Undead has the most balanced kit to deal with all races.