I am looking at a VPP but on reading the fine print there are no limits on what the retailer can do. It just seems to have been written by lawyers rather than technicians. I would like to help stabilize the grid and getting paid to do it doesn't hurt but I am not handing the retailer a blank cheque. Another thing is the retailer can transfer its rights under the contract to any other party. Also, if the retailer decides to charge the battery, why should I pay import rates and yet only get export rates when the retailer draws on the battery What is to stop the retailer churning me instead of using the battery to buffer against sudden transient demands?
That's a great deal! I only got $2000 off my non-Tesla battery for joining the Shinehub VPP. But then still I've been quite happy with it. They don't control my charging, only the discharging. So if I don't have enough charge in the battery, then they stop discharging at 10%. In fact I try to pre-charge my battery myself just so that if a VPP event occurs that there's some charge in my battery for them to take (since I get more for my exported energy than I paid for them). The only annoyance is that the VPP events don't always come at the assumed "peak" periods. Sometimes it occurs during the middle of the day, around 12-2pm, during my best generating period. This is annoying because while my battery is exporting, it can't charge. So all that lovely freshly generated electricity is going straight into feed-in, but I only get paid the usual feed-in for it, since I get paid extra only for energy exported from my battery. Otherwise it's great having the battery and VPPs are a great idea to earn some extra cash. I do get around 4-5 VPP events every month, lasting from 1-2 hours taking between 1kWh to 7kWh of electricity, so my VPP provider appears to be quite active.
@@mattzothner they were offering $2000 off, while Tesla didn’t have a VPP at the time, with no discount and batteries almost double the price. The Shinehub VPP didn’t do much for me though. There were only a handful of VPP events over 3 years, and recently they got serious about it, but the way they implemented it was to take total control of my battery permanently, which meant I couldn’t charge my battery during my free electricity hours from the provider. So I left them and not currently with any VPP.
That is my problem with mine. As far as I can tell, they choose to charge my battery at the grid consumption rate, 19c/kWh whenever they like as you said, then they decide to discharge it to the grid at the feed-in rate of 4c/kWh! I fully use my battery most nights and fully charge it most days by 12-2 pm but I bought my battery to cover my household needs and paid $14000 for my system so its not a small investment.
White roofs don't absorb near the heat as dark asphalt roofs. He has a thermal hot water system and solar panels. I've noticed his panels are mounted close to the roof preventing airflow which would have made his panels more efficient.
Good things to consider. Thanks for the video. I'm curious as to why your battery is still able to accept a large amount of charge in the late afternoon - wouldn't it be full by then?
@@SolarQuotes Thanks for the response Finn as I was genuinely curious. We have 6.6 kw solar and a 4.8 kwh battery on our home 4 hours north of Brisbane. In winter on a cloudless day we produce 22-23 kwh (and 44 kwh in summer), and our battery is full by just after 9 am. Then we plug the EV into the Zappi and charge away. I guess you being further from the equator would mean mean you get less solar production, plus you also have a much larger battery. Thanks and best wishes.
@@jameskal641 I did not join a VPP. I was concerned with the effect VPP’s have on the battery warranty. I shopped around and got an exceptionally good deal on an Alpha ESS 13.5 kw battery which was installed around 6 months ago. We also have an 8.1 kw solar array. So far it is saving us a lot of money, even with the ridiculously low feed in tariff (5 cents) and has the functionality to allow to charge from the grid which I do in the ‘shoulder period’ on those days when the sun isn’t shining.
@@GeneLake001 fair call. Funny thing about Tesla VPP is they extend warranty to 15 years and warrant it to 60% at 15 years. That’s only 10% degradation in the 5 years.
Interesting, are they buying energy @ negative spot prices, charging up your bat and the selling it back to you at .30c per kWh. Nifty. Pity you can't buy directly from spot your-self as if it'd come from your roof.
from my experience you are limited to 5kW inverter . I have more solar than 5kWh , so i am able to generated in good sunny conditions, but this is to cater for cloudy days when you are lucky to generate 2 KW an hour. But in Tassy no such encouragement to time delay grid power feed in back to grid during peak times so I do not have a battery system. It would take 30 years to get the cost back from any saving of power. Had to laugh as I feed back at least 20KW/h during the summer months each day it is sunny let alone over 3 years. LOL
I don't see the point of raising these "concerns". You got an incredibly great deal, but now most people who, we all know, don't know how to read, or comprehend the things that they read and hear, would go away thinking, "Aussie guy with VPP after 4 years says BEWARE"
It seems odd to me that your batteries are not fully charged by late afternoon if your solar panels are working like they should?????? I have batteries which charge up in the first few hours of sunlight and I sell all day to grid on sunny days from then on, your graph shows you selling to grid which to me says that your batteries are full and then they charge them some more, maybe you have plugged in one of your electric cars??????
2 ways to do this (1) You work on making money with a feed in tariff. (2) Cut down how much you use by running off solar as much as possible. Work on making a dollar off feed in or like me work on reducing how much you use from the grid in the first place.
I looked at AGL extensively It was such a bad deal I could not believe that any one was foolish enough to use it. the contract was so badly biased towards them and they could use and abuse your battery till it died rendering the warranty moot and accepted no responsibility for the battery.also they could use your power and charge you to fill it. Nah mate not that big a sucker. However I am currently re looking into it.
^/Romans 10:8-10 [8]But what does it say? The Word (God's message in Christ) is near you, on your lips and in your heart; that is, the Word (the message, the basis and object) of faith which we preach, [Deut. 30:14.] [9]Because if you acknowledge and confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and in your heart believe (adhere to, trust in, and rely on the truth) that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. [10]For with the heart a person believes (adheres to, trusts in, and relies on Christ) and so is justified (declared righteous, acceptable to God), and with the mouth he confesses (declares openly and speaks out freely his faith) and confirms [his] salvation.
You should put more solar panels on your roof, it seems quite empty, get solar quotes and do not do 7 mistakes that most people do. There is a video on that by Finn Peacock.
I am looking at a VPP but on reading the fine print there are no limits on what the retailer can do. It just seems to have been written by lawyers rather than technicians. I would like to help stabilize the grid and getting paid to do it doesn't hurt but I am not handing the retailer a blank cheque. Another thing is the retailer can transfer its rights under the contract to any other party. Also, if the retailer decides to charge the battery, why should I pay import rates and yet only get export rates when the retailer draws on the battery What is to stop the retailer churning me instead of using the battery to buffer against sudden transient demands?
Thank you very much for the valuable information. Really appreciate.
That's a great deal! I only got $2000 off my non-Tesla battery for joining the Shinehub VPP. But then still I've been quite happy with it. They don't control my charging, only the discharging. So if I don't have enough charge in the battery, then they stop discharging at 10%. In fact I try to pre-charge my battery myself just so that if a VPP event occurs that there's some charge in my battery for them to take (since I get more for my exported energy than I paid for them). The only annoyance is that the VPP events don't always come at the assumed "peak" periods. Sometimes it occurs during the middle of the day, around 12-2pm, during my best generating period. This is annoying because while my battery is exporting, it can't charge. So all that lovely freshly generated electricity is going straight into feed-in, but I only get paid the usual feed-in for it, since I get paid extra only for energy exported from my battery.
Otherwise it's great having the battery and VPPs are a great idea to earn some extra cash. I do get around 4-5 VPP events every month, lasting from 1-2 hours taking between 1kWh to 7kWh of electricity, so my VPP provider appears to be quite active.
Hey curious, why did you join Shinehub over a VPP like Telsa or other OEM?
@@mattzothner they were offering $2000 off, while Tesla didn’t have a VPP at the time, with no discount and batteries almost double the price. The Shinehub VPP didn’t do much for me though. There were only a handful of VPP events over 3 years, and recently they got serious about it, but the way they implemented it was to take total control of my battery permanently, which meant I couldn’t charge my battery during my free electricity hours from the provider. So I left them and not currently with any VPP.
That is my problem with mine. As far as I can tell, they choose to charge my battery at the grid consumption rate, 19c/kWh whenever they like as you said, then they decide to discharge it to the grid at the feed-in rate of 4c/kWh!
I fully use my battery most nights and fully charge it most days by 12-2 pm but I bought my battery to cover my household needs and paid $14000 for my system so its not a small investment.
Bought your book a couple of years ago Finn to help get my head around things. Thanks.
Next step battery.
You a Northerner?
Born and bred in York.
White roofs don't absorb near the heat as dark asphalt roofs. He has a thermal hot water system and solar panels. I've noticed his panels are mounted close to the roof preventing airflow which would have made his panels more efficient.
Good things to consider. Thanks for the video. I'm curious as to why your battery is still able to accept a large amount of charge in the late afternoon - wouldn't it be full by then?
Not in winter with 2x EVs that get priority for charging.
@@SolarQuotes Thanks for the response Finn as I was genuinely curious. We have 6.6 kw solar and a 4.8 kwh battery on our home 4 hours north of Brisbane. In winter on a cloudless day we produce 22-23 kwh (and 44 kwh in summer), and our battery is full by just after 9 am. Then we plug the EV into the Zappi and charge away. I guess you being further from the equator would mean mean you get less solar production, plus you also have a much larger battery. Thanks and best wishes.
Anyone have any experiences with Tesla (Energy Locals) VPP they can share?
Sometimes the wholesale price of electricity goes negative, so pumping electricity into your battery would make them money at that moment.
I'm confident the wholesale price was not negative for those time periods (winter just before sundown in Adelaide). But I'll check.
Any thoughts / reviews on Simply Energy VPP?
Did you end up joining simply energy VPP? Getting a PW2 this week and tossing up between them and Tesla VPP? Thanks
@@jameskal641 I did not join a VPP. I was concerned with the effect VPP’s have on the battery warranty.
I shopped around and got an exceptionally good deal on an Alpha ESS 13.5 kw battery which was installed around 6 months ago. We also have an 8.1 kw solar array.
So far it is saving us a lot of money, even with the ridiculously low feed in tariff (5 cents) and has the functionality to allow to charge from the grid which I do in the ‘shoulder period’ on those days when the sun isn’t shining.
@@GeneLake001 fair call. Funny thing about Tesla VPP is they extend warranty to 15 years and warrant it to 60% at 15 years. That’s only 10% degradation in the 5 years.
Interesting, are they buying energy @ negative spot prices, charging up your bat and the selling it back to you at .30c per kWh. Nifty. Pity you can't buy directly from spot your-self as if it'd come from your roof.
It's only 3 years not 4. ( edit, the Tesla data ) You got an upgrade from Sunverge to Telsa after 1 year. ( I know, same thing happened to me )
Salient points so thanks for that. Cheers
what about a bigger solar panels
from my experience you are limited to 5kW inverter . I have more solar than 5kWh , so i am able to generated in good sunny conditions, but this is to cater for cloudy days when you are lucky to generate 2 KW an hour. But in Tassy no such encouragement to time delay grid power feed in back to grid during peak times so I do not have a battery system. It would take 30 years to get the cost back from any saving of power. Had to laugh as I feed back at least 20KW/h during the summer months each day it is sunny let alone over 3 years. LOL
I don't see the point of raising these "concerns".
You got an incredibly great deal,
but now most people who, we all know, don't know how to read, or comprehend the things that they read and hear, would go away thinking,
"Aussie guy with VPP after 4 years says BEWARE"
excellent episode .................
and take my money as well; but alas, not to be here in Victoria
If you’re getting an EV your best to charge from your solar panels during the day if you can
Who cares about 20kWh when they gave you $10,000 off the purchase.
It seems odd to me that your batteries are not fully charged by late afternoon if your solar panels are working like they should?????? I have batteries which charge up in the first few hours of sunlight and I sell all day to grid on sunny days from then on, your graph shows you selling to grid which to me says that your batteries are full and then they charge them some more, maybe you have plugged in one of your electric cars??????
I have over 100 kWh of cars to charge and it's winter in Adelaide.
2 ways to do this (1) You work on making money with a feed in tariff. (2) Cut down how much you use by running off solar as much as possible. Work on making a dollar off feed in or like me work on reducing how much you use from the grid in the first place.
Ha u Prah
VPP is the best
Gerhold View
So they charged your battery during the peak electricity cost to charge you the premium for the electricity cost and then did use it. Nice move
"bugger all" = nothing 😅 I had to look it up
122 Zemlak Glens
I looked at AGL extensively It was such a bad deal I could not believe that any one was foolish enough to use it. the contract was so badly biased towards them and they could use and abuse your battery till it died rendering the warranty moot and accepted no responsibility for the battery.also they could use your power and charge you to fill it. Nah mate not that big a sucker. However I am currently re looking into it.
Allen Kimberly Anderson Sarah Rodriguez James
The onus pay for reducing co2 a lot money
^/Romans 10:8-10
[8]But what does it say? The Word (God's message in Christ) is near you, on your lips and in your heart; that is, the Word (the message, the basis and object) of faith which we preach, [Deut. 30:14.]
[9]Because if you acknowledge and confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and in your heart believe (adhere to, trust in, and rely on the truth) that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
[10]For with the heart a person believes (adheres to, trusts in, and relies on Christ) and so is justified (declared righteous, acceptable to God), and with the mouth he confesses (declares openly and speaks out freely his faith) and confirms [his] salvation.
Raphaelle Turnpike
Ha u Prah
Wow, I wouldn't have considered that the retailer can chose when to charge your battery. They could really screw you over if they wanted to.
only if you sign up to a VPP - which is optional!
$10k off a PW 2? Shut up and take my money!
You should put more solar panels on your roof, it seems quite empty, get solar quotes and do not do 7 mistakes that most people do. There is a video on that by Finn Peacock.