Are RULES KILLING Racing?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 พ.ค. 2024
- Should we just rip all the electronics and aerodynamic aids off of MotoGP bikes, or are the just-released 2027 rules for MotoGP a good move for the series and for racing in general? King of the Baggers doesn't have rider aids, so why does MotoGP and Superbike? Kevin Cameron and Mark Hoyer talk about rules in road racing and where the sport might be headed.
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The tire pressure rules are insane unrealistic and need to go asap
I love MotoGP but they need to get rid of all the ride height nonsense & the tyre pressure stuff which is unfathomable. The aero stuff is ugly but if it’s passive then I don’t have any big problem ,
When asked why he retired Casey Stoner said that the bikes changed from where he had 10% more skill than the bike has, and so he was in control, to when he felt the bike was trying to kill him by being 10% better than what he could control.
Shane Van Gisbergen said the same. He said in road courses he was better than the car, but on super speedways, the car had a mind of its own and he was not in control.
I worked for one season in Supercars here in Australia and we had Ron Tauranac as engineering consultant who transformed the handling and the young people didn't know who he was.
Keep them coming guys! Thank you both!
Rules are not killing racing. Indecisiveness is killing racing. What do I mean? The powers that be, especially those running MotoGP, are constantly changing their minds on how the series should be run. Due to their Indecisiveness, manufacturers are wasting millions of dollars building brand new bikes every season. Obviously, a certain amount of development is required to stay competitive. However, the series has essentially had a complete reboot on several occasions since switching to four stroke. The act of switching to four stroke was a monumental change. Then four years later they had a complete reboot switching to 800cc. Then there was the gear box wars several years later. And a failed attempt to use street going motors. Then switching back to 1000cc. Then the aero wars. Now we're switching to 850cc...... STOP REBOOTING THE SERIES! THERE IS ZERO CHANCE OF PRIVATE TEAMS! WE'VE LOST SUZUKI AND KAWASAKI IN THE SERIES! YAMAHA AND HONDA WILL LEAVE SOON IF IT CONTINUES TO BE A DUCATI CUP! MORE IMPORTANTLY IS THERE ARE NO MAJOR SPONSORS IN THE SERIES BECAUSE OF THE INDECISIVENESS! APRILIA STILL DOESN'T HAVE A SPONSOR! BAN AERO! KEEP IT AT 1000CC! MAKE MOTO 3 AND MOTO 2 SPEC SERIES WHERE ALL MANUFACTURERS ARE REQUIRED TO PARTAKE OR THEY CAN'T HAVE A MOTOGP BIKE! THIS WOULD FIX TWO PROBLEMS! THE SMALLER SERIES WOULD BE MORE COMPETITIVE AND YOU WOULD BE DEVELOPING FUTURE TALENT MORE EFFECTIVELY! THIS ISN'T ROCKET SCIENCE! STOP MAKING THINGS DIFFICULT!
A small manufacturer like Ducati making mega corporations like Kawasaki and Honda cry is one of my biggest pleasures in life.
@@kurtfoulke5130 agree but Audi really did great things with Ducati... the quality shot WAY up.
They change displacement to keep the little guys out on purpose.
They did it in the WRC too and ruined it, first 2 liters, then 1.6, then hybrids and now going back to gasoline only again, FIA and Dorna/FIM are a bunch of lunatic idiots
Just love those piston tops on your headphones. It is such a joy listening to you and Kevin.
I shouldn't be saying this but its great to hear adults talk. Maybe its just me but the youtube MC is littered with ridiculous claims, wizard engineering and extreme opinions. I hope Cycle World stays a round for a long time. You can hear the decades experience haha Those in charge are never too generous haha I went from a Kawa 600 to a Diavel 165 hp and thought that was a jump... The jump from my Diavel to the SF V4S in corners and with the wings ( which I thought was a gimmick until I rode it over 200 in a corner.,,,,,) WOW... listen to these guys
Great stuff! How about 250 short track, 500 horse track, 750 road race, all with a 7500 rev limit? KISS
How about no?
Great work guys! Would love podcasts on chassis and swingarm geometry and their effects on race and street bikes. An hour dedicated to front end trail is probably too detailed but I'd still listen to the whole thing.
What a wonderful technical duo you guys are … thanks for the effort
My family stopped subscribing and watching Moto gp. We now watch ASBK and BSB
Rider skill is still on display.
I love a technical podcast 👏
Aero tidbit - in the early 60s the teams racing top level endurance events found that rudimentary rear spoilers and front air dams dramatically reduced speed on the long straights but the lap time was dramatically quicker. These cars’ design philosophy was focused on low drag for highest top speed. The concept of downforce was still to be discovered. Amazingly, F1 teams didn’t start experimenting with wings until 68 or 69. Jim Hall with his Chaparrals likely deserves credit as the guy that put aerodynamics on every designers drawing board.
I quit watching MotoGp years ago. I still watch MotoAmerica tho.
I think it's a step in the right direction , speeds are insane , take it back to 500 cc.
Hmm - they probably wouldn’t be any faster than moto2’s
The current bikes are missiles. The riders are the best of the best with perhaps the exception of a handful of WSB riders. The racing can be spectacular, though not always guaranteed to be so. Aero does good as well as not so good things ...but I love it, as well as the tech with ride height and good shot devices. Why dumb it all down and end up with slower bikes? Ducati Panig v4r has nearly 240bhp from a road bike, we could end up with GP bikes that are little quicker than superstockers. The fuel capacity reduction is possibly not a bad thing, it will force better use of available fuel over race distance...so not all bad! You guys are excellent...a depth and breadth of technical knowledge that most folks, myself included, can only aspire to. Very enjoyable to listen to.
do big deplacement bikes with V V Timing make a enjoyable riding flat torqe curve what needed for street twisties mountain riding ??
May the force be with you
It already happened: DORNA decided to change MotoGP Rules for 2027: No ride height or whole shot devises allowed, engines reduced to 850 cc among other things!
Hole shot
I believe the space shuttle was landed by stick and stud in one mission
MotoGP isn't being killed by anything. It's the cost of club racing. The days of grabbing a beater, overhauling the engine and suspension, doing the safety wiring and going out and having a blast are done. It's a cost issue.
On edit: I'll bet that the 850cc bikes are nearly as fast due to less mass equates to higher corner speeds
Being told my brand new helmet did't pass saftey tech is what did it for me.
The different series are all great. And their rules work. You want streetbike based? Watch world superbike. You want unlimited F1 stryle tech? Moto Gp baby! With its aero, ride height goodies, launch control, etc. Thats how Martin drags his entire shoulder. Only the tech makes it possible. Moto2 and moto3 feed this series obviously. I only lament the loss of 2 strokes.....I roadrace a 114hp rz350 yamaha in American Vintage roadracing. Evil incarnate. But so satisfying when its right...and it wheelies in 4 gears to 140 mph.
We’ve seen riders lose podium finishes because the rear tyre touched one millimetre of green track edge! NO! Just NO!
It’s not like they’ve gone a foot wide of the track to deliberately cut the corner to their own advantage!
Wings on motorcycles ........... What could possibly go wrong ????? /sarc
The 2027 regulations are needed to keep the costs for track safety issues with in reach.
There are at the moment, a lot of tracks able to house these gp venue's, and Dorna need to keep those tracks avaible for the future.
Already we see the help of company-investments in gp-outings to spread the costs.
Racing could be done on all kinds of bikes, it doesn't change the game, which it still is.
But regulations should not filter out the quality of the driver in the first place, which is the reason of watching them.
The thrill in watching moto3 because of the drivers themselves should not be lost, as we like to relate to those using there qualities.
Motogp becomes more and more a company-choise in the first place, which isn't nice to watch.
The haves and don't haves materially, is not wat it makes me to watch, the human quality in different riders is overshadowed by electronic means.
It is precisely this wat Casey Stoner means by keeping the electronics out of the game.
We like to relate to the human efforts, not to the electronicly steered perfection.
I don't watch Moto GP, Superbike, etc to see a company with a technology advantage have the best lap records or highest top speeds. Today riders 1 through 10 are running closer to each other time wise more than ever because of technology. Personally I'd rather see the winner determined more by the skill of the rider.
At this point of Moto GP I'd rather watch all the competitors on same bikes and see which rider is the best not being primarily based who has the best engineering .
Viewers and fans are voting with what they want to see. TV and sponsors are worried about the dwindling interest and no matter what the argument by making technology more important than the rider will be a winner.
This is like manna from Heaven. There’s no substitute for deep knowledge and even more powerful humility. Keep it up. It’s beyond perfection. Thanks!!!
Yes they ruined it . Bring back TZ250s and stuff and make them race 2 strokes !
38:50 FYI the shuttle was landed by humans, and it wasnt always pretty. th-cam.com/video/pfNQW4jToHE/w-d-xo.htmlsi=L7UFfKZAq544YYIQ
Unlike many others, I don't have a problem with the new GP rules. Can't please everyone.
The tech is killing it for me. Watching British Superbikes all day long. All the skill on the rider, limited anti-wheelie and no traction control or holeshot devices. Racing is exciting, neck on neck close racing and the best rider who can get the best out of their package wins.... All the bikes are chucking out about 240hp all on the riders wrist. Proper racing!
Well maybe! You end up in the ludicrous position that a Superstock (which is using the factory installed road-bike aids is barely slower than an expensively modified superbike based on the same model, we saw this at the NW200. Hickman's lap record on a Superstock is only 0.08% slower than his Superbike record. Nobody would even notice if they dropped Superbikes completely for something you can go to your local dealer and buy.
What do the various interests want from motorsports? Surely not the same things. The most popular($$$) sport in the world gets by with an inflated ball and maybe a good pair of shoes. Wouldn't most race series like a piece of that pie? I understand that certain participants and fans enjoy the technical war in racing but I bet most fans place higher value on other aspects of motorsports. But generally people like top tier of everything even if they don't understand the nuts and bolts of it so if a race series can honestly call themselves World Number 1(F1, MotoGP) then that's where the beautiful people will go. Doesn't mean it's the best pure racing tho. Who cares, it's all meaningless in the end anyway. Who but a few teary eyed nostalgics cares about racing stars from the past? It's a current sport and fleeting.
Motogp bike’s should be the highest technical example of motorcycle technology. Period. Same as F1. It’s gonna be a funny scenario when wings go away ‘to make them look like road bikes’, when road going sport bikes have already adopted them. It’s only going to make MotoGP bikes look dumb and dated. You can stop progression but you don’t go backwards!!!
Consider cost of racing. Suzuki and Kawasaki have left because of your mentality. Motogp is show business. What return on investment do the manufacturers receive for a bunch of tech that will never be applicable to a road bike? These companies make money selling motorcycles, not squeezing out 2 more tenths of a second around Jerez.
Very specifically want to see want to see analog racing between riders.
Something like the original NASCAR. Something that doesn't have a lot of rules that every day man can buy.
The new regulations are going to make motogp slower than wsbk and crashes all over the track . Glad to see there will still have aero
I stopped watching racing decades ago because I got tired of all the rule changes that limit performance and speed. For me it was Rally Racing getting ride of Group B and all the changes in Formula 1. I was never a NASCAR fan because it is to low tech to be high tech and nothing in common with a "stock car" to be a stock car! Rule changes make racing more boring not more exciting!
Make Superbike Racing great again. No bodywork except maybe the number plate lol
UH....ya think!? Of course they are! From F1 Spec racing, to BoP in IMSA/WEC, to spec WSBK, etc etc. It's ALL contrived garbage
It would be nice to see MotoGP move back to the 500cc paradigm by removing electronic rider aids and requiring the engineers to focus on usable power. The 2027 rules seem like a reasonable half step. The manufacturers outlawed ride height prior to 2022, but the manufacturers did not foresee the possibility of a hydraulic system. The teams were playing around with active suspension in the early-90s. It was a waste of time and money back then, and it still is. Aero is also wasteful because road riders don't want to pay for these systems or the upkeep.
The lingering issue is that MotoGP is on its 4th clean sheet in 25 years. Cutting edge ICE development is not really on the shareholder's minds these days. They need to find a better method of managing engine performance.
If you moved to 500 (ignoring 2 strokes which are too dirty) they would be no faster than the 765 moto2’s which are 145 hp +
Too much technology takes too much of the rider out of the equation.
BSB is the best!!!🥇🏆👑✨
What is stupid is doing the ride height devices mechanical vs electronic
Surely the rider is the only (aid!) a racing motorcycle should have/need, it used to be good enough!!!
It used to suck ~ with one rider on one brand winning every race season after season.
Leading the rest of the stragglers with no chance and half a lap behind. No thanks!
It DID NOT used to be good enough!!!
Racing is boring without bikes passing each other in MotoGP.
The problem isn’t speed, is circuits.
Superbikeis going the same route!
I am in favour of reducing the size of the rule book, not increasing it. I think Dorna have missed a trick.
To slow the bikes down simply instruct Michelin to make tyres that perform as well after 20 laps as they do after 5. There would be less grip available, corner speeds would be reduced as would straight line speed as drive out of corners would be affected. There would also be the side benefit that riders would no longer have to conserve tyre life, they could just race.
Agreed. Nothing is applicable to consumer anymore. Just look at Nascar and F1. Latest joke was F1 Monaco race where top ten on grid finished race in same order. Totally ridiculous. Best racing is intage bikes. Nothing like seeing Manxes, Vincents and Commandos racing!
let the motorcycle be a motorcycle take all the electronics off and your throttle is all you need these are professionals so let pros do there stuff they dont put all this on dirtbikes ! why street if your a beginner yea maybe after you learn NO electronics
Look at F1, it’s not even racing anymore. Same with NASCAR, it’s more an exhibition than a real competition. It doesn’t make it more exciting, that’s for sure
I think there should be no rules in any motorsports and it’s winter takeoff and you can use whatever weapon you want to ensure you’re the winner mad Max beyond Thunderdome part three woo hoo of course the rules aren’t killing racing. What’s killing racing and sports in general is the cheating and non-enforcement of the rules.
2027 MotoGP rules have ensured I will no longer pay 160 USD annual subscription to watch the races. The specific rule which disappoints is reduced engine displacement back to the 850 range slowing the fastest bike classes. No thank you
I've got the best solution ever. Taking this to the extreme, get rid of the rider and have AI / riderless motorcycle racing.
I think high tech is killing everything. Motorcycles are supposed to be simple. Super complex bikes become racing machines but not better motorcycles. A good bike has enough power to do its job and is reliable and fun and doesn't burn through tires and gas like there's no tomorrow because tomorrow I might want to go riding again!
Of course we all know Islam is a religion of peace..... a piece of you here a piece of you there.......
They are caping the sport which for me it’s BS
I love Superbike and Stock 1000 racing (World Superbike, MotoAmerica, BSB, the Real Road racers) but MotoGP is impossible to love. The bikes are ugly, they sound awful and they are not in anyway even remotely similar to anything anyone can buy and ride on a road.
I love MotoGP. The bikes are beautiful, they sound awesome ~ and they are not in anyway even remotely similar to anything anyone can buy and ride on a road. As they should be in a Prototype class.
If you want bikes similar to anything anyone can buy and ride on a road ~ go watch WSBK.
MotoGP is riding the crest of a huge wave. Largest crowds and the best racing we have seen....EVER!
I love MotoGP. The bikes are beautiful and sound awesome ~ and are not similar to anything anyone can buy and ride on a road.
If you want bikes similar to anything anyone can buy and ride on a road ~ go watch WSBK.