Chrysler Slant 6 Generator Gets Holley Sniper EFI Pt.2 FIRST LOAD TEST
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ต.ค. 2024
- Check out part 1 here...
• Chrysler Slant 6 Gener...
In this video I install the governor controller and run the generator under load for the first time!
Hope all is well miss your videos.
Really miss your videos, are you ok. Tony. UK
Miss your videos, hope all is well!
Hey bud, we're still toonin' in. I hope all is well with you.
Where you at Mike
Haven’t seen you in a while I hope you are doing OK? You have a very professional narrative style and you know your way around machinery.
Hi Mike, any plans for new videos? There are a ton of us out here that enjoy your channel. Take care.
Please give us a update on your situation. Not trying to get into your business, but we do care about your situation. Most of us have a lot to worry about. Just a hi I'm ok would be great. Thanks Mike
Still waiting for your next video. Its been a while.
Modern fuel injection strategies put the engine into a clear flood condition when you try starting at wide open throttle, so you'll have to let the engine start before the governor takes over.
I think anyone should admit that the Holly and governor pairing is plenty quick and definitely up to this application, very nice job
Too complex. Original downdraught, 2 days tuning properly... Small rev/load range, so can be set almost as good. But...far more reliable.
Hi Mike! I hope you are well. I'm missing watching your videos, hopefully you will get back into it again!
What a cool project please get some new content out
The Holley may have a 'Clear Flood' mode in it, usually accessed by setting the throttle at Wide Open while cranking. May also be a safety feature within the Holley such that it won't unintentionally run away upon starting.
most any/all aftermarket ecus have flood clear mode.
That's what I was just going to suggest. Watching a lot of amateur drag racers and just tuners the Holley system does have a clear flood mode.
Exactly. Flood clear mode at WOT. Increase your delay to like 10 seconds on the governor if you can. Should be enough time for it to start.
Absolutely. Clear flood = no start. Need a smarter governor. Should never go 100% throttle on initial start. Probably because the governor was left powered on for a while. Normally it would be activated on start demand so you would never leave it powered for an extended period in normal operating conditions.
This was my thinking as well. One "quick and dirty" method you might consider is that if it only needs 30% throttle for near full load, maybe set "wide open" to be something like 75%-80%, enough to provide suitable engine performance but not enough to trigger the anti-flood
The Chrysler Slant Six is one of my favorite engines of all time. They do have one thing that can make you wind up walking. The distributor has a plastic drive gear that can fail. On all my Slant Six engines I replaced the distributor drive gear with a aluminum / bronze gear that was made for use in drag racing the S.S. engine.
100%!!! must be ASAP!!!!!!
They have an opening so if you drop a screw when changing points that puppy drops right down into the drive gear. Second, that engine was originally designed to be an alunimun block. That's why you will never break the bottom end. I think they were all made with forged cranks.
I changed all of mine to electronic ingnition because it was harder to change points on them than most engines. Chrysler did build aluminum Slant Sixes for a short time and they had too many problems, so Chrysler dropped them. Chrysler switched to a cast crankshaft in the mid 1970's and narrower connecting rods and smaller connecting rod bearings and later they started using hydraulic lifters. We use to sell a lot of these later engines to cab companies because they didn't last as long as the older engines. Also in the later 1960's Chrylser increased the size of hole in the rear of the crankshaft. If you wanted to install a later Slant Six into a earlier car with a stickshift you had to use a later stick flywheel that matched the engine. If you wanted to install a later Slant Six into a earlier car with a automatic transmission, you had to stick a reducer bushing into the later engine so the early torque converter would fit. We use to sell the reducer bushing at the place I worked. Early torque converters had a small hub on the front and later torque converters had a large hub on the front and early and late converters do not swap. The only other bad thing about these engines are the exhaust manifolds. The like to crank and warp. Then there was the Hyper Pak. Factory 170 CI race engine.
@@EVILDR235 Thanks for more information on this engine.
Boy that’s the quietest slant 6 I’ve ever herd my buddy had a 60 s valiant always had tick tick lifter noise but ran like a champ good on gas
Mike: I appreciate seeing your videos showcasing your fine skills and knowledge. Your professionalism is evident in all you do. Your work brings back memories from the 1960s when my dad and I worked on Onan Gensets for the American Red Cross Disaster Services in Cincinnati. OH. He had been a steel mill mechanic and later an engineer. We had one Onan from the early 1950s that was hand cranked and I was told it was marketed to those who might have a remote cabin. We mounted this 5KW genset on a trailer with light units and to supply a communications trailer. Other Onan Gensets were made for the US Army and were secured from the US Army Depot in Lexington, KY for American Red Cross use. These units never failed to operate and even a small Onan unit in an American Red Cross Canteen worked well. This unit I am certain was not on a good maintenance schedule until he took it under his wing. Thanks for all you do and taking the time to make your videos for the world to view. We are in your debt. I still favor the older Onan Gensets, but my opinion is worth probably less than 2 cents. Thanks again.
Just checking to see if you are
ok.
7 months since the last vidja? Time for an update!
Hi Mike, is everything OK? You haven't posted in quite a while.
Hope you're OK we really miss you Mike.
The Slant 6 is one of the greatest engine designs and real world products of all time.
You might want to see if the Holley system has a "Load" PID to view. Throttle position isn't a great way to judge engine load, as available engine power at a given throttle position varies by engine speed. For example, at 1800 RPM, your engine might not actually generate any additional power from 50% throttle to 100% throttle. It's better to look at the "Load" parameter, as it factors in RPM as part of the calculation. Usually this would be a number from 0-100%.
You can also use engine vacuum as a proxy for load. Once you hit 0 vacuum or atmospheric pressure, additional throttle will not result in more power.
Agreed. Just look at the MAP sensor on the Holley. If it reaches 100 kPa, it’s at full load. I think I saw a number like 76 kPa when Mike was playing with the tuner.
When you get to fine tuning for fuel consumption, 14.7gm air to 1 gm fuel ratio is Auto industry standard for light loads. The Slant Six was no exception. So you know you can go that lean knowing you were at 33% throttle when you hit 30kW. Then you can add vacuum advance to give some additional advance at light loads for more FE. Adding vacuum advance was critical to FE back when that engine was on the road. Factory total centrifugal advance (befor lean burn ignition) was around 30°-32° but that was at 4,000rpm, which means the centrifugal advance is not going to be all in at 1,800rpm. You will have to change the initial timing from factory of 0°-12° to something greater to compensate some if you don't want to recurve the centrifugal advance. That leaves a lot of room for vacuum advance which is limited to about 10°-14° at around 15" Hg vacuum, roughly 50kpa MAP. So definitely connect your vacuum advance and add more initial timing watch for starter kick back and detonation when it's all heated up. *(use the copper tube) Every drag racer knows there is usually more power (efficiency) with more total advance over the factory setting. Manufacturers always had to "be on the safe side," so they stopped short of Max Avail output. That means leaner A/F + more advance should really enhance light load fuel efficiency. Your 225 SS was at 33% throttle while delivering 30kW. I didn't see what the MAP was, but as you go leaner the throttle will open more & MAP will increase .
PS You were already making more power than my house built in 1980 has. I have only 100 Amp service, so you were 22% beyond my total capacity when you hit 125Amps. Shoot me an email if you have a question. Fine Business So Far! CressBenWell
Ben, you might enjoy following along as I get my late father's 1958 Plymouth Suburban back to daily driver condition. More videos coming once it warms up in MN. I would appreciate having you as a subscriber and your input with tuning! th-cam.com/video/9jJxV_qSNmg/w-d-xo.html
My honda insight does 22-24 AFR when lean burning... but doing that without everything setup perfectly might result in excess heat. Also 14.7 is stochiometric for gasoline and may also be too lean for many older engines for that reason. Also our fuel has ethanol in any which may further lean it out, as ethanol's stochiometric mixture is only 9:1 since it has less energy...so if your fuel is 10% ethanol your it may push you slightly leaner than you would think.
The Holley Sniper has an option for timing control. Lock the distributor advance and the Sniper will use the MAP sensor and tach signal to make the timing anything you want it to be. I think you can also use it to "assist" the governor. Set the Sniper idle at 1,800 and the timing will advance or retard to "hold" 1,800 (with light/no load). I would like to know the A/F ratio at 30kw. I assume the unit will data-log.
Very impressive. Who ever did the engine & finish work can be proud. It runs smooth and quiet as can be. Great job, as usual, setting up the controller. Very nicely done.
On timing, the vacuum advance is for improving part throttle fuel economy. When the load increases, the governor opens the throttle to maintain the desired RPM which reduces intake manifold vacuum. This in turn reduces the amount of vacuum advance, which is desired to prevent pinging under load. The mixture tends to be leaner at light throttle so it burns slower (more space between the fuel molecules).
It's fun watching you modernizing this classic. You didn't mention another advantage of EFI is running the engine at maximum efficiency and a comparison of gallons per hour fuel usage vs carburetor. This Gen likely had a fuel GPH Rating at XX% load, if you could find that, you could run a comparison test against the EFI.
What a sweet, smooth sounding engine. I like the sound of a good, loaded diesel but that gas 225 sounds fantastic, never even broke a sweat.
What a sweet sounding motor, and it looks good too! Good job.
It is a Slant Six. What did you expect?
WORST engine Chrysler ever made!
(According to the bean counters.)
Damn thing wouldn't die. They put
them in UGLY Valiants, which also
never died. Even though the HP was
posted in negative numbers, still my
favourite Chrysler engine. 318 is close,
383 is closer. Both of those had some
horsepower, but the 383 Magnum got
me in the most trouble. ('70 383 A833
Roadrunner.)
steve
Sure do miss seeing your videos. Hope everything is going well for you.
You could add a timer to control power to the governor until after the engine starts.the higher-end holly units have multiple programmable outputs that could control the governor directly from the ecu. Nice work. 👍🏽
The 225 slant six was one of Chryslers most durable engines.
What an absolutely beautiful unit 😮 if anything will convert me to spark ignition that will what a smooth engine it's like a motor on low load ! Absolutely love it as always your work is perfection 👌 completely agree with having separate systems for fueling and speed control makes diagnosis allot easier and simpler as you say! Such a shame something like that would be incredibly rare over here in UK I know Chrysler industrial engines did make it over here but I'd imagine most got scraped along time ago ☹️
the holley does have a clear flood mode of 65% tps or higher. you can change it with a laptop. Put a time delay relay on the power wire for your governor and set it for 20 seconds
You just made me wonder what a new 3.0 Duramax would be like on a genset. They get amazing mileage and are super quiet.
Mike, my first Dodge truck, (older than Everett) was
a 1964 stepside shortbed, Three on the
Tree, with a Slant Six. It was painted the same
Robin's Egg blue, as your generator's chassis.
Everett, don't be mad, I was only six.
steve
@SmallEngineMechanic you ok? haven't seen any new videos in a while, was also curious if you got any fuel consumption numbers on the efi conversion.
If ever there was the perfect application of a slant 6, you have found it! Love what you have done with the EFI and governor/voltage reg. That is a rock solid unit. Set it for 50Hz and I will pay shipping to get it to Australia.
Very interesting! you can’t go wrong with an inline 6 spark ignited engine for under 100 KW. Especially with the improved performance and reliability of electronic controls.
I’d definitely set it up to start at idle, then ramp up to 1800 rpm. I’m setting up my 3 phase 30 KW machine to do that. You could probably get away with using a V/Hz setting on the AVR to avoid over excitation at idle, or just put a relay in the power leads to the regulator to cut it out when the engine is at idle. That’s what I’m doing.
Love projects like this one.
That is a nice setup, can't wait to see it all tidied up, and fine tuned. Great video,thank you.
I like the paint work. Had to pause to confirm it was a chrome alternator. That thing is awesome. Good job
What a beautiful motor! I love how quiet it is! FI too! Great stuff Mike!
Your a fascinating man doing fascinating things, I love to watch you build and repair these Gen sets. Keep them coming, it helps those of us that are largely housebound like me.
You can adjust the target Air/Fuel Ratio in the EFI settings to the desired value, I believe it has individual settings for Idle, Part Throttle, and Wide Open Throttle.
Great video Mike. I've never seen a Chrysler slant 6 used before like this in a generator configuration. Over here in Australia, I have seen many 6 cylinder (186ci - 202ci) red Holden engines used. Cheers, Aaron.
Pretty much the majority of American manufacturers made gen sets.
@@methanial73 👍
Many decades ago when I started skiing, I would see Chrysler 225's and 318's used as backup power on the ski lifts. Never seen one run, though.
Excelent video and always very instructive Mike. We all learn a lot with them.
Long time no see. Come and visit us!
A lot of EFI systems turn off the injector(s) at full throttle when cranking. This serves as a "clear flood mode", much the same as the old choke systems which pulled the choke open at full throttle even when cold (in case you flooded the engine).
You could use a relay running off your oil pressure switch to turn on and off your governor.
Since the throttle is only open such a small percentage at licht loads the vacuume advance could have a big impact on fuel economy. Would be very easy to check with the holley EFI having throttle position readout. Just connect the vacuume while under light constant load and see if the throttle percentage changes. Try at severl different light loads like 3kw, 6kw, and 9kw...
Industrial engines typically don't have vacumme advances because they are usually sized to match the load at 75% continious or higher.
Haven’t seen any new content lately miss seeing your videos, come on back buddy
Hope all is well man.
cool ass genrater two man
I wonder if the frequency “hunting” is caused by the minimum increment of the governor shaft movement. The throttle shaft of the Sniper is too “sensitive” to the governor movement. A longer arm on the throttle lever would help with that.
To dial in spark simply adjust while watching throttle position under steady load. In theory the advance that results in the lowest throttle position is most efficient, assuming you don't run into spark knock. That slant six probably has really low compression so it may not be an issue. You will need to run more spark advance at lighter loads and less under heavy loads.
The vacuum advance hooked up should fine tune the timing for load (light load more advance higher load less advance)
Use vac advance
I’d love to see more of your videos.
subbed instantly, a man who puts fuel injection on his generator is top notch 👌
Mike I really like these videos. Appreciate the time you take out of your busy schedule
Awesome, great test. I would also love to see THD and outba scope on it to see how clean the sine wave is at load and no load and not just resistive loads.
Where are you? Missed seeing your videos
this makes a sweet genset. thanks, fun to watch your vids.
You have done a beautiful job on this and you know your shit! I am used to be an Auto Tech I went to school and I also to Marine repair and also restore Muscle cars, I also build performance engines . I have worked on a lot of Mopars including the slant six. When you have a standard gen set or welder with a gas or diesel engine on it the engine will run at idle until there is a load on it then the Governor will kick the speed up to compensate for load . When the load it off the Governor brings it back to idle . The idle on that engine should be around 750 to 850 give or take. You have the Governor set at almost 2000 rpm for sustained idle ! Seen a lot of Generators and Welder I never seen one set up to idle at almost 2000 rpm and wait for the load to come on to it . This is going to cause excessive fuel consumption that is not needed and a lot of excessive wear on a new engine that is not necessary . On any engine they taught us that you need to warm up an engine minimum of 5 minutes or more the get the oil circulating into the oil passages and internal components of the engine. After you get the engine warmed up after a 850 rpm initial start then you can kick it up to higher RPM'S . Lets say this gen set sits for 12 months never started . All of a sudden the power goes out and its 25 degrees outside the engine is cold the oil is cold all the oil off of the cam crank and upper valve train is now drained back into the crank case. Customer goes out kicks on the gen set and bam! The engine reves up to almost 2000 rpm with no oil pressure ! I can guarantee you are going to start destroying that engine you have no oil pressure the oil is cold and thick and you rev the engine up to almost 2000 rpm the crank and cam and upper valve train have no oil pressure you are going to destroy that engine . There will be excessive wear on the components of the engine and the by product is metal shavings and excess metal particles will now go through the oil galleys and start tearing up the crank cam and upper valve train after it gets warmed up. That engine needs to stay at around idle until the engine is fully warmed up before putting any demand on it or you will dis ingrate it . Your pride in your work shows you did a beautiful job on it my man . And you know your stuff I will complement when a complement is deserved
The smoothness is largely due to the fact that it's an inline six, which has perfect primary and secondary balance naturally without needing balance shafts or a harmonic balancer. Yes, gas engines are generally quieter and smoother than diesels, but it's the inline six configuration that really makes it smooth. Most big trucks have inline sixes. The Chrysler slant six is famous.
Those engines were shoved into everything that n ended an engine. Drove a clamp truck for several years with one in it.
Hey Mike, you should put together a little box with some of those big digit led meters for volts, frequency, amps, etc. that you could just put somewhere in frame for when you’re load testing. Kind of a status-at-a-glance, rather than the usual assortment of multimeters…just a thought for a fun little project and maybe even a how-to video of it…
I like the Q&A at the beginning - all good questions and nice answers
Some really good numbers on the load test, ie amps, voltage etc. Good job Mike.
That engine sounds amazingly smooth and quiet..you weren't kidding about the gas engines being quiet. WoW.
Maybe have the governor power switched by a 10psi oil pressure switch so you get a little crank time before it powers on.
you could tie the governor into the oil pressure switch. that would also ensure oil pressure before ramp up and load.
As you have stated that slant pack is quiet and smooth. The customer is going to be trilled to have such a beautiful and reliable genset! You do great work Mike!
Nice progress on this one! Looking forward to seeing the end results.
Glad to see you making videos again. I always learn a lot from them. 👍
that unit sounds really good. as to the vacuum advance i understand your reason for not using it , and yet it may help with the full load spike, timing advance = HP
as to the base timing as it will ever only start and run at 1800 RMP i would start with 14 BTDC at idle and go up from there. if i remember right i ran my 71 slant 6 at around 16 BTDC. again the more timing you can get on it with out a knock or hot starting problem the better AFR you will get.
Economy. Power throttle response
The old Mopar slant 6 is practically indestructible. I owned a 1971 Plymouth Duster, and in 1978 started building the Duster into a race car by installing a 440 engine & drivetrain. Before pulling the slant 6 out, I had a friend follow me down the freeway while I held the engine in first gear at wide open throttle for approximately six miles in an attempt to deliberately blow up the engine (hey I was young and dumb lol). It wouldn't blow. So I got off the freeway, put the car in neutral, and did some full throttle drops into drive. Ha! I finally broke something; not the engine or transmission though, I popped the spider gears in the rear differential.
BTW, it had over 125,000 miles on it at that time. I ended up installing it in my sister's Dodge Dart and she drove it for a few more years before selling the car.
Well done. That's the smoothest sounding slant six I ever seen running
wonder what happened to him?
i just came to tell him about Diesel Creek got a big boy GenSet but don't know much about it
Your attention to detail is second to none. Can't wait for the third video
They called those engines "The Leaning Tower Of Power" .. Now it truly is ! Enjoyed Mike, Great job !! 👍👍
Smooth as silk!
Good job again, Mike!
The holley efi systems have a clear flood mood set at 75% throttle position or higher if it's wide open throttle while starting the injectors won't fire I have the 4 barrel model on a 440 big block in my d250 dodge
On start up most Fuel injection systems treat WOT when cranking as clear flood mode it shuts off the injectors because that was the way to clear a flooded engine was to hold the gas pedal to the floor when cranking so software designers for fuel injection in cars keep that same feature.
That's very impressive, especially considering there's still quite a bit of tuning to be done.
I wonder if the flutter on the speed control is down to signal noise, either from the speed sensor (unlikely since it should be a simple on/off waveform) or to the governor solenoid. If so, shielding might help. An oscilloscope could show you the waveform on both and might give some clues.
Great video, always like your content.
I have some familiarity with Holley EFI automotive applications. Two points:
1. You probably already figured out that there is a throttle angle threshold where the computer no longer tries to control idle speed so when you open the throttle you went out of the so-called idle control mode. I found the trick is to start high and work down that way you never cross that threshold. once you get your final throttle blade setting then you can relearn the closed throttle position.
2. Holley pushes the whole autotune thing because it helps them sell fuel injection systems. The problem is, they’re fairly well known for having failures of the wide band O2 sensor. This is a result of the sensor being powered up immediately, and being shocked by the moisture that condenses in the exhaust system which breaks the small porcelain inside the sensor. Therefore, I highly recommend that you tune the system so that it does not need the O2 sensor, you can leave the closed looped fueling on but limit the control to something small like plus or minus 8%. There’s nothing wrong with the sensor itself as it is a OEM automotive part. It’s simply because there is no delayed turn on strategy, they can’t live up to their marketing hype if the closed loop fueling doesn’t start immediately when the engine starts…
You might consider getting the laptop, interface cable and plugging that in instead of your little handheld that way you get full access to all the different parameters , you are certainly technically savvy enough to do that.
That thing runs super smooth !! Excellent fuel injection system !!
The little slant-6 took the load test like a champ! Seems like the EFI is working great as well. I wonder what kind of fuel savings there are, if any, over a carburetor in addition to the good cold start characteristics.
any fuel savings should be very minor... after all the engine itself hasn't changed and would have been optimized or at least should have been optimised for its load, EFI will run the engine at a more optimal A/F ratio across a wider range of loads and speeds but this only had to deal with 1 speed and varying load.
@@Wingnut353 Something about the carb, though, is that when you tune it you do so during a specific set of environmental conditions, whether you do it in the summer, winter, etc. And then probably never touch it again. The EFI makes adjustments based on intake air temp, etc. So it has an advantage there. One thing is likely for sure. He'll never see fuel savings enough to justify the cost of the EFI over even a brand new carb more than likely. I still love that the customer wanted it, though.
One of the features of EFI systems on cars, typically 100% pedal will tell the EFI to "fuel cut off" when cranking over. I would suspect the Holley is the same, for the same reasons. Really nice smooth generator/engine combo.
Will the EFI tell you how much fuel is going into the engine ? I'd love to know the fuel rate at idle and under various loads.
Great project. Great video.
EFI at least keeps gasoline sealed in injector s unlike carburetor which is open to atmosphere causes it to varnish jets after sitting for months .
Excellent 225 engine we had in pumps forklifts industrial.
Only downfall on these slant 170,225s in cars trucks was that distributor was down low by puddles snow water and caps got water in them a lot .
It is possible to make it both gasoline and LP gas etc .
My JLG manlift has both .
Excellent 👍
You're a great teacher! I can't wait to see your next video. I've purchased a 12.5kw stamford coupled to a lister sr3 air cooled diesel for a backup for the house. If you lived closer, I'd be glad to hire you to go through it for me! Thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience!!
nice video, a lot quieter than i thought it would be, can't wait to see your finished product
Nice work on this genset Mike, it turned out great!! I agree with the governor control. Its built for a genset application and has been proven for years, and gives you all the fine tuning required to control the load properly. Not to say the Holley couldn't do this as well, but it was made for a car and the last thing you would want is for this thing to over or undershoot that throttle, as you know that has the potential to do some serious damage to voltage regulator or worse whatever it's powering! Also, you've done this work for years and have a very deep understanding of that control set, so i don't blame you for sticking to what you know works, especially for a client. Awesome work, happy to see you back!!
Thank you for sharing! Great work! I lost track of you because TH-cam unsubscribed me for not being up to date on something. Glad you are sharing the good stuff.
Wonderful video. I wonder if the unit would be quieter with on-demand staged 12v cooling fans?
Glad you addressed the voltage issue. Still sure that is gonna help you get it all running right easier in the long run.
Simple fix for your clear flood deal, just make sure your electric governer can only open the throttle below the flood clear value (if you cannot disable it) so if its 60% throttle have your governer limited to 55% seems you have the headroom. or fudge the TPS calibration on the sniper.
Another great video. That engine seems to be a good match for the generator. Doesn't seem to be working much at all. I would be interested in a couple of fuel consumption tests. Maybe one at full load and half load. I'm thinking it might be pretty reasonable. You really have to think about the cost of fuel today. With diesel being almost 2.00 dollars more a gallon that gives you more wiggle room on gasoline. Not to mention a gasoline engine is usually much cheaper to buy/rebuild and maintain these days. Nice work!
The EFI will meter fuel better and should help with fuel wash down on oiling. That little engine will run forever if tou change oil regularly.
Really enjoying your content and looking forward to your next video. I understand the amount of work involved with a one person TH-cam channel but I hope more videos are coming soon.
What a great machine!! Outstanding job!
(That chrome alternator makes it even better!)
By chance do you have the generator finished up yet? I do enjoy your Chanell,
Nice genny sounds good no load to full load is very nice looks good as well almost candidate for a glass case to show it off
When you do the next bout, I'd bee interested in knowing the fuel consumption and perhaps how that compares to other generators in the same output class using fuels other than gasoline.