Been loving the content recently Bo. Love the attitude, love the silliness, love the opinions, and most of all I love that you remind us to have FUN in the game again.
Just found this channel recently with your excellent TWW fishing guide - cos yeah 'I'm delving, fishing and chilling' this patch. I main 2 non-meta classes and mythic+ atm I fear would be detrimental to my already fragile mental health - so 'nope'. Excellent video! Love your sense of humour (Aussie spelling). Keep 'em coming brother - much love from an Aussie Grandma xo
AMEN and AMEN my brother!!! Well said and I just put this in my guild discord, and emphasized that we even have guildies who treat other guildies this way.
I started retail again after some 10+ years, I roll a druid tank and do the mythics in a way that I clear out each row by level, all 2s, all 3s, currently on all 4s learning...its a good system...to git gud...
How I do every season with healing... it works perfectly fine for me. Now gonna work a bit on my alt DPS cause my DPS friends are being slow and I'm bored waiting... I'll just do the same thing except I'll skip ahead a key... 2's then 4's then 6's... already did them all up to 10's as healer (well most of them) but need to relearn warlock a bit before I do higher keys. :)
The "Get Good" community are like those medieval doctors that keep trying to use leeches to heal everything. And you have to keep telling them that using Leeches (saying "Get Good") is kilIing their patients/games.
Yeah, wanting to beat some keys (which is exactly the same enemies as every other difficulty of that dungeon just more dmg and health) and expecting that people doing the challenge mode of m+ should know how to use their interrupts just a little (since they maybe could have learned that in the normal dungeons, or the heroic dungeons, or the normal mythic dungeons, or Delves, or while levelling), yeah no that's too much to ask. Or learn how stuns work and have worked in the entire game since so far back it isn't even funny... or anything else really. Too much to ask that someone doing keys have read the dungeon journal and maybe tried to learn something *before* they're inflicting themselves on other players, instead expecting them to just stop in the middle and drop all their own expectations and goals just to drag you up from the mud... I dunno man. The "we want to stay bad" community has some wild takes sometimes.
@@Drasnier People need to understand to think outside of extreme terms. Basically the "we don't want to learn anything" is just as bad as the "become a perfectionist, no mistakes" community. The whole point is that lately, M+ has been leaning towards the later. Certain game modes, when left unsupervised, will snowball people to perfect things more and more, leaving new comers to not trying said game mode because "you weren't here early to get up to our level" The whole point is to alleviate this snowball effect as much as possible with systems that mitigate extremists of both camps.
@@ElKabong3345 Getting to the point where it's kind of perfected is kind of the whole deal of M+. It's the *inevitable* result of any challenge mode. After all (and I keep repeating this while I discuss this topic), it's the *same* dungeons that we just run again and again and again and again so we just get better at them naturally. You cannot face the same group of enemies 10-20 times and not realize what is going on, that's all there is to it. It's not like there is much of any communication when you pug or even play with friends until the really highest keys. Not at a +2. Not at a +6. Not at a +10 or +11. We just *do*, if you get my meaning? And we fail, and then we win, and we just know better each time. "hello." "gg thxbye" A snapshot of 95% of m+ communication that happens. Also! And this is a HUGE also IMO. The keys having different levels that you climb IS the very thing that actually ALLOWS new people come in and learn and not have to care all that much about what the people before them have done in every particular case, as opposed to something like Heroic Raids or whatever where people congregate from more skill levels and some people lose their shit there it's true. But you have to understand that someone whose done all low keys on a character won't do those low keys ever again, they have moved on already and you literally won't see them until you catch up to them, ever, so they don't matter at all except for maybe living in your heads, or in the heads of some shitty guild leaders that sniffs their own farts. Like I only return to low keys to boost my low-geared friends (hoping they will sometime this century join me in some 11's and 12's) or to play my alts. And I can tell you when I do my alts I just blast the shit out of the dungeon and bosses and don't really care much about what my party is doing, just hoping the healer and tank stay alive a bit so I can carry the damage, and if we wipe and die and disband it's cause of some casual's weak mental and not me. In higher keys the people I group with usually are just better so I can care even less LMAO. You think I care enough to cuss someone out or whine that they're not doing the "meta" when I already got past this level before? Nah I'm not wasting that sort of effort. The toxic guys you meet, or that this part of the community complain about, the "perfectionists" that make it unfun to play are ALL of them noobs that don't know how to play and refuse to learn, and *they* will hold you back in sheer spite because they can't magically do what they see people do in the MDI or whatever stupid shit they watch and they get very mad from any critique, cause they're not getting to play the game "their way" (which is just being shit). They're the problem you have, not the "top" players or whatever cause you NEVER play with them (unless they carry your dps), and they're certainly not out here spending their time harassing other players in-game cause they frankly have better things to do with their time, and the worst thing they do is just not talk with you because they don't want to get verbally attacked. The casual players BIGGEST problem is *other* casual players, I really mean this. You guys hate each other. Deeply. XD
@@ElKabong3345 I think my other message got removed, maybe I had a bad word or whatever. The "make no mistakes" community you think of you never play with or interact with typically. You just interact with other players that haven't learned enough yet and get easily mad, cause that's what the keys do, they're a journey and you just meet people who are in the same range as you. "Top" players (lmao we just spent more time and ran more keys over the last few weeks) did the lower keys (2-10) already, they're not doing them anymore so they have no impact on you. The ones you meet who are toxic and talk about "meta" or whatever are usually just bad and prideful. They're the ones talking about "levels" and stuff but they just aren't good themselves you know? The ones a casual player hates the most is another casual player, I swear... cause they're the ones who will cuss you out or whatever, the rest of us don't care that much, we want to have fun and we've done this stuff a lot. You think we get upset when we slum it on an alt in lower keys on occassion? nahhh. We just blast the heck out of the dungeon mobs and bosses and move on regardless of result really, hoping the healer and tank stays alive so we can do our thing. If someone is *really* hopeless and don't take to it if we decide to give a tip or two (usually it's just "you gotta dispel this" or something like that) then we might dip after a bit but the ones going mental and logging off mid-run are usually casuals who watched too much MDI or whatever and just don't have skill to match their grand aspirations, and they want to SKIP SKIP SKIP all the content because they think there's some sort of status involved by doing big number keys, missing the point where the people getting to high number keys just get there because they have fun. It's just how it is.
Great content. The dying from shit and not knowing what the fuck happened hits home hard. Then you have to go watch youtube videos just to figure it out.
As a primarily solo player, this XP has been awesome. Interestingly, I have done more group content recently than ever before. I do dungeons, raids, PvP ad goldfarm, but M+ is just to exclusive to be interesting. Decent management of M+ would include a path for noobs into the activity, I think. Its beyond obvious that M+ needs a better method to cue.
TBF Lust is pretty much needed for that hall, or best used in that hall over EDNA, but if the tank didn’t say anything about it before hand then he’s a silly bean
I mained a resto druid from TBC to Legion and completed loved healing in all facets of the game. Since that time, owing to the reasons you have mentioned in this video, I have not healed a group, raid or BG in almost 10 years. The main trigger for my change came from the ever increasing effort that healing required. I saw healing go from a mathematical puzzle of mana management to a AOE healing, Interrupting, debuffing and expected dps role. It simply went from an enjoyable activity to an anxiety ridden exercise over a few expansions. Sadly, I have tried to get back into healing a few times, however, every time it ends in the same way. That is, me thinking it is so much easier to DPS, regardless of wait times. Why put yourself through that level of stress and anxiety in a activity that exists to provide a form of enjoyable entertainment.
Yea, but the affixes are in-game. Press "I" and go to the M+ dungeons tab and you can mouse over them. Fair point on Xal'atah's not being descriptive enough though.
I was referring more to the seasonal affix but did a poor job specifying that. I feel like the other ones are well explained but could also use some tips in how to manage them. Appreciate your comment.
Yeah well, who cares? Honestly, I've been a Resto Shaman since Warlords of Draenor. Dumb people are always going on about meta classes, why should you care, they're probably bad... we were never meta in all that time, now we have a brief window were we're just good to bring because Blizzard made some ridiculous affixes and we can just deal with them. Nice. Next rotation? Probably back to Resto Druid being the top pick for forever again because they'll be able to go into cat form at the higher key levels and deal a tiny bit extra dps compared to the others, and things will be back to normal LOL. Just play the goddamn thing you like and don't play with people you don't like. You're a healer you don't have to take shit from anyone, like what's the DPS gonna do? Not run keys because they have no healer? XD like whaaaa...? Heck just learn what the few things you can't deal with are and make sure you bring something to the party that can (hey a shaman IS a good bet right now, but ANY shaman can do what a resto shaman can do and ppl just bully you and insist YOU play it so THEIR spot in the group doesn't get taken by a DPS shammy, because they're angry no-skill bitches hahahaha) EDIT: Yeah yeah I see you said you have Keystone Master so you know all this. It just triggers me when people go off about that crap too
This is the second video of yours that I'm watching & I'm loving them, thank you for your content! Honestly as a BM Hunter I don't even try to pug because it's depressing and people are shitheads, I am ilvl 608 & I'm still looked at like a schlub. I just run w/my guild here & there and am very slowly leveling my rating and HEAVILY rely on very geared, very knowledgeable friends who have run mythics for years to help me grow. As someone who has played WoW for nearly 20 years as a casual player who NOW wants the challenge of M+ & raids, I have to say the learning curve is STEEEEEEEEP because as you said, so much information ISN'T IN GAME, so if you don't know your way around wowhead & google or have great friends, you're basically left high & dry, told to "get good" and have zero idea how the hell to do that.
no offence but with 608 you are a scrub for the most people that do m+... i say that not to diss you but at this point you can easy have 615/620 even without m+... people will always take the bigger nubers and to be fail while i like the bm hunter... right now he is just bad for m+. that all people will see. two numbres and a class color.
Man, that middle section there was a DAMNING indictment against Blizz. They need to do profit sharing with the community if they're gonna rely on the community to develop half their game for them.
Good natured Boklahoma is a riot Dark Bo is a snarling beast. Whoa But everything he said in this video is 100% accurate I main Frost DK, and this is best Frost DKs have ever been. But I don’t even want to play it because I want to play my Holy Paladin and my Brewmaster. So much for that
I like this idea of a queue system existing for M+. If people could start with Dungeon Finder-like queueing for M0 (as long as they have the gear) and be able to automatically queue for next M+ levels in the same way once they have successfully completed/timed current level for all seasonal dungeons (and have progressed their gear), I see that as a tremendous QoL improvement (one which might make people like me at least give m+ a shot). People should still be allowed to pug for faster increase in M+ level by doing it manually (similar to how it is right now, somewhat). Great video.
The bottom line is, the LFG system is miserable to deal with for average players and even when it’s not miserable it still takes too long to find groups. For a game to be successful in this day and age you need to respect players time and solo queue is the way to do that. The system can group players together that have lower scores and they can learn together and earn gear. As they improve, they get slotted into higher keys and get better gear. The battleground blitz system is very popular and while the MMR system has its issues, it has still increased participation in PvP by a large amount. I believe participation would increase in the same way for solo queue M+. Players just want to be able to play the game and progress without dealing with picky or toxic LFG groups.
"...people need to get good but for people to get good they need to get groups!" AMEN! I guess we need to state the obvious here for all the elitist snobs. I mean really - it's why I just don't do em, I have other ways to waste my time!
Time Stamp 17:55; Keep in mind that Chinese players are now playing WoW again in The War Within whereas they were not able to play in Dragonflight. That can skew the player participation numbers compared to the end of the last expansion.
Well said ! As an Discipline Priest *Oracle* stuck at 9 keys, anything 10 and above Nah-uh for me. Can't even get into a Grim Batol +8 (the only key i haven't timed 9)... why would they even take a Priest... Shaman is 25% stronger than any other healers. The other day i saw Madzkill press 3 buttons and he was at 2M HPS can't even reach that even if i pressed 15 buttons (my max being around 1.6M HPS) More than the gear, the classes and hero talents were a bigger priority. Now Blizzard tries to get away nerfing all the dungeons which i understand is easier than balancing all the healers... but the problem is that damage is done, in people's mind Shaman = least failure possible People don't realize how much Blizzard fucked up on this one...
Well said. A Mythic+ queue should also be keyless and come with a deserter debuf. Like you said, not every level of Mythic+ has to be queueable right away. Practice can make perfect, but I am skeptical that a Mythic+ que system will improve players skills all that much.
Amazing video thank you. I am a 8/8 Heroic Rogue 616 gear, I can’t find and group accepting me high than 4+. And I have no reason to go there. I need to get 8+. Comon blizzard
I typically watch dungeon walk through guides, like the masterclass series quazzi does. He covers every mob and boss and all their abilities. I was running 25s before the change in pugs because I took the time to educate myself on everything in the dungeons.
first time seeing your channel, awesome video. i have mained my warrior since vanilla, switched fury at the end of bc/beginning of wrath when titan's grip was added for the play-style, and aesthetics. this season it has been real tough to get into groups as a fury warrior after the nerfs, and due to our lack of utility. like, why would you get a fury warrior when you could get a paladin...they kept nerfing fury because our dps was just too high for their liking during the heroic week before m+ even started!... despite after the burst window we generally fall off a cliff. warrior has little more to offer to a group besides their dps so it deserves to be a bit higher. the only real utility we offer is battleshout, interrupt, and short duration stuns. it has been especially difficult to get into groups this week because we have no dispells and spell reflect doesn't work on the affix because it has no real "origin" source to reflect back to. the only advice i ever get if i bring this sort of thing up is (switch to a better class),,,the warrior way is not often the easiest, and its been my main forever...too late to switch now.
I dont play with any addons because im autistic and alot of the sdd9ns just blare loud sounds and flash stuff on my screen so ive always played with out them i just watch videos for each dungeon learn the fights and then go in im currently 2330 rateing on disc priest you do not need addons for mythic plus
Man I don't use addons that tell me what to do either (just Plater so I can make the nameplates less horrible and ElvUI to make my UI look nice and smooth), but personally I've always considered them for being *for* autistic people or maybe little children to help them out in case they get confused... like the mobs in the game already scream their attacks at you, with big red arrows and flashing circles too, and mobs casting dangerous spells usually have more dangerous-looking spell effects going around them, right? XD It's like just learn what they do already and win win win win... :D
As a returning player very experienced in all types of MMO challenging content, this is bad. For example, how long between when the affixes occur? I can’t find that anywhere in order to evaluate whether talenting a 3 min warrior cleanse is even worth it
How about just running some low keys (which you have to do anyway) where the margins are much larger, and then you just... experience it and learn from the experience like EVERYONE ELSE is doing. Why are you so much worse than us that we can learn this way but you can't? I don't believe it. Also it's meant to be ish random. But every few minutes as a safe bet... if you need the cleanse you just talent it and use it when you can, no? Get some knowledge for what classes you play alongside bring and you'll be gucchi, they can't hand you everything on a silver platter either. Like you want specific cd's for the affix? Do you also want a detailed description of the movement-speed of every mob so you can evaluate if you want more move speed or not, before you dare play? Do you want to see detailed damage reports (which you can with a dps addon lul) to evaluate if you run a dmg reduction trinket or a deal more dmg trinket, BEFORE you play any? Before every boss fight would you like a little tutorial video to run so you can see the entire fight before hand and a lady voice explain to you what buttons you should press? (if so there is an addon for that I'm sure...) How much miniscule information do you want to shove into your brain before you just GO THERE, you see what happens and then you go "Oh I need this next time, mhm!" xD
He speaks facts. I've stopped pugging and using group finder...the community has gotten out of control. I just do the delves and dailies...did LFR to see the story pieces, other than that done. Sad that I have gone this route after playing for 20 years. Seems like it has just gotten progressively worse since Wrath.
Yes waiting, yes fishing, yes delving. Have not done a single mythic this season. Don't want to "gid gud". Pugging m+ seems to have gone toxic really hard. And I'm not the kind of guy who tries a plethora of groups, that either want me to play "meta" or FotM (never have been) or are just constantly lecturing about "getting good". I still love to think about Burning Crusade: if you were reasonably able to tank a dungeon on heroic, an average friendly guy, willing to improve on your gameplay, you had least five groups, that would invite you as tank for a dungeon or two. No rating, no meta, no RIO, no quitting. Just your name.
Same. I've engaged with the system in prior expansions, and pugged to KSM multiple times, but I'm not raiding or doing M+ at all this season and I'm not really missing it either. I'll still queue up for blow up the odd TW dungeon for the lulz but past that I just don't care at all for instanced group content anymore.
Funny that you bring up tuning issues because it's "absolutely" not like people have been playing the beta for months, pointing out that m+ is a bit overtuned, while Blizz just simply didn't care. The m+ declines amount is a direct result of that and while Blizz probably thought it's not any big issue, they started the expansion with awesome numbers and then dropped the ball. EDIT: And for the record I'm currently finishing up my +11s so I know how overtuned this season is, first hand experience. Oh boy do I not look forward to finding out how a +12 feels like.
I don't think it's overtuned at all (as a healer main.) I think most of the dps in my groups are just kind of bad usually, which makes climbing keys a bit rough cause it just takes too long, but the incoming damage is fine for the most part, as long as interrupts are done half-well and people actually play (The big rock boss in Stonevault being an exception). I can't wait to see 12's and finally get my face stomped in and hopefully have some fun with my buddies while we figure it out (unless they never get there which it's looking like they won't and I'll have to pug it and just hope the DPS aren't bad). Personally I don't WANT 12's to be anything like easy. But yeah you're right, they had beta testers and did almost nothing with the information they got
@@MeekoEdits Heck, maybe you're right. 12's might very well be overtuned. I mean I don't get their thinking when they add extra difficulty on it beyond the normal scaling, I'll say that. Bound to cause problems for themselves.
I would love to do M+ since as a dedicated mount hunter there are some pretty sweet mounts gated behind it. Unfortunately I don't feel like there's any way I could just jump in now and have a remote chance to ladder up (I'm a fury warrior... I have many many alts, but that's the class I know best). So, Delves have been amazing for me. Sad to me that they had to create that mode for people who can't or won't deal with their other (what I'm sure is a great) mode.
At very very least. Mythic zero dungeon finder. I've said to many for several expacs that mythic zero should be a skill wall to keys. Must complete before the access. It at least guarantees that you've at least experienced the fights, even if you havent learned them. There should also be a penalty to leave a key before completion
Add a vote leave, and a debuff if you leave before timer is up or vote has passed that increases in stacks exponentially that drains any key you joins timer by the stack number in seconds. Debuff resets with the weekly reset. This would make mid key leavers extinct overnight.
Interesting video. One of the issues in many policies that try and catch the folks that get left behind is they need a bit of cutting the potential in order for the "fix" to have any effect. Happens a lot in economics models youll see an inflationary unintended outcome. So it seems like you're thinking the cultures standards are too high, and should be forced to be lowered. Im guessing since you want to leave the group finder tool in, you would add in a bounty system for the keyholder, tanks, and healers to use a queue system to fill out a group. That way you incentivize it. And hopefully this would change the culture? It seems to me you have to really emphasize that is blizzard adding in better quality education tools for these queue DPS BEFORE you say they need to add the queue system for mythic. Otherwise you already can predict the outcome. A bunch of DPS sitting in a 2 hour queue as they use the group finder and get rejected. Either people trust, you timed 10 times, here is a rating to show that, or they don't, blizzard forcing the interactions to happen would mean something else.
I was going to spend the week gitting gud but Hurricane Milton took out electricity and water for the week. Not likely to get it back til Thursday. All the M+ Meta gods are going to be angry that I didn't get my vault rewards.
It’s wild that there is now a meta needed to play in mythic + or you can’t join, being meta doesn’t make a person know their class they just spam buttons, I miss the days of players that were actually good due to knowing their class
The only place you find meta "requirements" is in the very highest keys, like 13 and up. Otherwise situations change. In some dungeons and some weeks certain classes are good to have one of in your party, but it's not like you have to stack up on only "meta" classes (which change almost all the time) to be able to do m+, that's ridiculous. I've done a bunch of keys by now and I see almost every class regularly. The only people seriously dabbling in the "meta" stuff are NON-pug groups of friends that want to try specific things to try to succeed just a TINY bit better when they're already running like a well-oiled machine together, and these folks usually have several alts they'll play around with. Like... you weren't getting invited to those groups REGARDLESS of what you're playing my friend... The only hope is to pick a main and GET GOOD AT IT. If you do you'll just climb... people aren't really that picky. They'll pick one class that gives a party buff, probably a shaman if they can this week since we just remove the affix (bad affix IMO as a shaman player) and then whatever. Just as long as you've timed the previous level of key I think most people will accept you. :)
@@ajewell8918 Sorry for the wall of text, I like actually saying stuff. Well, me personally main Resto Shaman. Been a one-trick since Warlords of Draenor so don't @ me about it being "meta" for 5 minutes right now, our kit literally hasn't changed since Legion (except for the new mastery buff). I got to 10's on two dungeons, but I'm stuck on 9's for most of the others because the dps I've joined up with doesn't do mechanics (like they can't kill the adds on 2nd boss of NW, what am I supposed to do when they can't even do that, right? I've tried it 5 times now in the last two days and that or them failing the hook on 3rd boss is always the problem) and my friends aren't playing rn so now I'm playing my destruction warlock instead and gonna climb to 9's or 10's with that. So I guess I'll get to experience all these issues finding grps, though so far until 5's the issue is absolutely timing the keys since so many players don't know how to play and every key is a gamble. I just had an aug doing less than 100k dps including their party buffs like wtf... As for what people PLAY... I certainly enjoy panda tanks, they are usually *way* better players than your average IMO, and they're absolutely my *favourite* to heal, but there are way more Blood Dk's (which I hate to heal) and warriors around since they're less complicated. Blood DK's attract a certain type of player I usually don't get along with, the "my class can solo things and I'm amazing so everyone else sucks" kind, you can usually bet that DK tanks will leave at the first sign of struggle after cussing you out just don't invite them... I haven't seen many druid healers playing my warlock yet, but the one I saw did juuuust fine, way better than the shaman that never pressed spirit link totem at least, and the priest healers I've had *would* have been fine if they just weren't so bad that they never dispelled things. Like the issue isn't the classes. It's 99% player skill. And you're not getting away from that in pug world no matter what class you invite (except affliction warlock, minor mistakes mess their dps up so don't bother. And random pug augmentation evokers usually aren't worth the risk either... just because of what kind of players are usually attracted to roleplaying as a dragon, you know?)
Is there a discord or does BO have one that would be good for finding groups of like minded ppl to progress through M+ that allows everyone to learn at their pace respectfully. I've wanted to tank this expansion, I leveled a pally first which is difficult to say the least. I have a prot warrior also and I'm interested in doing mythics but jumping in head first and it actually being a race from start to finish opposed to a dungeon is actually the worst thing I could imagine for someone trying to learn content
I'll say it again and again. The score needs to capture more than 1 variable. Timing or not timing is not cutting it. Your score should reflect whether you interrupt, die less, dps or heal, use CDs etc. Everyone knows not all 2k players are the same. Some are carriers and some are carries. If you earned your score by being good then a lot less keys would fail. They system could give you a recap at the end of the dungeon saying something like, to increase your score further, interrupt more, die less, do more dmg etc. Then at least people would be encouraged to get good if they want to go higher in keys.
We don't WANT more variables. We ONLY want to know if, when you sign up for our 10, if you at least have timed a 9. And that's all the score does, it says "You beat this level of key in time", and it just uses numbers for it for whatever reason. That's it. Do you think I'm sitting there poring over people's logs or summaries before I invite them to a dumb key? NO! Did you do the previous key? No? Then no invite. Yes? Invite. Congratulations! (Also personally I don't invite people with degenerate names but hey, you can learn why yourself.) You want more stats? Ok. I can dig that, cause I'm *good* at this game and I do lots of healing or lots of damage and I use my entire kit, whatever I want. I won't have an issue with making it even more elitist, if you want a bigger divide that is A-OKAY with me! XD
@@Drasnier Bigger divide? I want a smaller divide. People who should be doing 5s have no business doing 10s and their score should reflect that. They shouldn't get carried in a 9 by 4 great players then get the score then look to me like they should be in 10s.
You should make a video about the addon arms race that forced blizz to make encounters so overcomplicated and difficult. Notice that about the time weakauras came out subs were at an all time high, meaning they went down ever since... A high end players UI is more complex than an f-22 pilots HUD. Addons are great for sweaty try hard leets, but horrible for the business model, player retention and getting new subs. edit: I myself years ago spent many an entire night working on weakauras and quite enjoyed the challenge, but spending 5 hours working on a third party addon to play a game "better" cannot be healthy for the game as a whole, as a community.
the hardcore m+ key pushers. and that includes a lot of TH-camrs are very toxic about this sorda thing. They rather have inexperienced players leave the game/m+ than give them a chance to learn. They are super selfish about it.
But you have every chance to learn. Do you think we just began at high keys??? Wild. We just don't want your whining to make Blizzard make things too easy, because what would the fun be if you could just stroll in and win without any effort at all? Why play then? ... we would love for you to learn. You have SO many tools for it too. Dungeon Journal explains every boss and their abilities IN DETAIL. You can run the new dungeons with NPC's to learn the ropes, and then you have normal, heroic and then mythic dungeons to get through before you should even THINK about doing m+... and all the mobs are exactly the same in those difficulties so you should have no issue learning what mobs do what if you just wanted to take some time for it, AS WE HAVE DONE! I think you guys who are complaining so much that you don't get to win when you have done nothing to learn are the selfish ones actually... Like you just don't realize how little there actually is to learn to get good or whatever, because you're making up this huge wall in your own head that just isn't there in reality, and you're failing to see how some things interact in the game and this stops you from progressing. Now you also have Delves where you can learn the basics of how to play your class with some slight challenge and without ANY stress. Will you though? I guess time will tell. :) Like the game really is as simple as DPS classes press their "do more damage" buttons every 2 minutes and then usually have a rotation of 4 other buttons they press in the right order. It really just goes like 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 then once again 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 and so on and so on. Then when an enemy tries to cast a spell you can use another ability to stop them usually. And maybe you have a stun, and a self-heal or other defensive. And then the ENTIRE point of the game is trying to beat the dungeons that ARE trying to kill you, and m+ just makes things deal more dmg and have more hp, like that's it. If you know a mythic dungeon you know what's gonna happen in EVERY key level of that dungeon. Just learn it? Or don't play m+ where the entire point is doing the same content again and again because you just think it's *that* fun, go do something else with your time holy moly EDIT: And I'd like to add that personally I NEVER see anyone ask for actual help understanding anything in the game. And if I offer to explain things I get DEAD SILENCE back 90% of the time, 5% I get cussed out for being elitist and just 5%, 1 in 20, someone actually responds and tries to learn. So I don't know man... imo you all are just digging your own holes.
@@Drasnier Most people play the content that blizzard gives them the gear to do. So if they get easy 610. they skip normal and heroic dungeons and go right into mythic dungeons. without ever learning the mechanics before that.
@@trancer03 Jupp. I had a 610 healer in my +4 stonevault today. Absolute rubbish, and I eventually found out he was wearing a STR weapon. Then he refused to change, saying "I know my build isn't perfect" like my poor buddy... builds aren't a thing. You just put on the gear you have with the highest numbers (hopefully the right numbers ofc) And STR on an INT class is decidedly *the wrong* numbers xD
The absolute most annoying thing to me is that as far as I know there is nothing that indicates what can and cannot be CC’d. Sometimes my HOJ just does nothing. I’m not a new player. I’ve KSM’d and AotC plenty of times. This is one of the most infuriating systems in the game.
It sucks. I'm a healer. Dragonflight season 1, i tried M+ for the first time ever. I LOVED it. I ended up getting keystone hero on 2 healers (mistweaver and resto shaman) and blood DK for 3 seasons. (Always pugged) I took a break in season 4 but I was excited to come back for TWW and get back into TWW but I after hearing about ask the changes, I just don't even want to try.
Don't listen to someone that can't do even mid-tier keys without having a panic attack maybe... it's exactly the same as it used to be, just with IMO less fun affixes (especially as resto shaman as they have every tool they need to deal with every dungeon and affix this particular rotation). I'm a Resto Shaman main and it's gr8 imo. Like if you got keystone hero before it won't be much harder now, just get past the valley of doom (what I call the low keys because in low keys you need to deal with all the players that refuse to learn anything but still think they deserve to win every key they join and BOY will you have to heal a lot there with all the extra damage players take), once you're in like +6 keys or maybe +7 keys now that it's been a few weeks of all the bad players getting free gear from vaults, then you'll be feeling pretty good about playing and it'll all be good, and the dps and tanks won't suck as much. :) Sure eventually the 15-second death penalty comes and it sucks but heck, that's just how it is. You'll get the keystone hero in no time as long as you don't stress the F out like it sounds like Boklahoma kind of does... Just gotta be good at dispelling and using your healing cd's, but then that's all you do as a healer right? XD
I played M+ in DF season 3. It was OK. I got my KSM. However, I'm not interested in learning all the extra stuff to stay alive in keys nowadays. Happy to hear folks like the game mode but it's not for me. My resto shammy sticks to raiding.
I play tank and heals. I usually push for ksm aotc and sometimes cutting edge. I am in delves. I wont be pugging until the toxic is less brain bleed inducing. I know a lot of healers and a fair few tanks who are the same. Why pug and be spoken to like crap by idoits who think mplus is pull big ignore everything scream at healer when they die when I can have fun and mellow out with a couple of mates in delves and still get okay gear?
The numbers for runs aren't all that promising honestly. They're higher than S4 of DF, but S4 was the last season of an expansion while TWW is still just beginning, and while one might argue that participation isn't comparable to previous seasons given the key squish one must also admit that there is no real way to progress once you're geared from Delves apart from, as usual, M+ and Raiding, hence it's a fair assumption I think that many of the people running keys now are those that ran them traditionally. Could be wrong, could be Delves are all people really need, but given the snail's pace of crest acquisition through them it seems inevitable people would push themselves into M+ even if only for crests.
Been loving the content recently Bo. Love the attitude, love the silliness, love the opinions, and most of all I love that you remind us to have FUN in the game again.
Great video man, I’m happy I found your channel. The fishing guide was great also
Only found you a few days ago as wanted fishing info but now im watching all your vids, love your accent... My Boba Fett you rock!!
Just found this channel recently with your excellent TWW fishing guide - cos yeah 'I'm delving, fishing and chilling' this patch. I main 2 non-meta classes and mythic+ atm I fear would be detrimental to my already fragile mental health - so 'nope'. Excellent video! Love your sense of humour (Aussie spelling). Keep 'em coming brother - much love from an Aussie Grandma xo
I hope Blizzard listens to you. You have great insights about the game.
*hugs his vanilla ui* they’ll never take you away from me
it takes a special kind of person to git gud. and it ain't me. thanks for taking one for the team brutha!
alone for that "brutha" nobody should want you in any team...
AMEN and AMEN my brother!!! Well said and I just put this in my guild discord, and emphasized that we even have guildies who treat other guildies this way.
Met you in game and it led to finding your channel. Fellow okie keep
Up the good videos 🙌
fav new channel for sure
wow, analysis is spot on, especially about switching to meta classes and reliance on add ons
Thanks for this video, I learned a lot and got some actual info on where to learn more. I've had a hard time finding detailed explanations of things.
Stay Hard.
Love your content - great ideas and great storyteller!
Amen! Awesome video. Just subscribed. And thanks for linking that video
I started retail again after some 10+ years, I roll a druid tank and do the mythics in a way that I clear out each row by level, all 2s, all 3s, currently on all 4s learning...its a good system...to git gud...
How I do every season with healing... it works perfectly fine for me. Now gonna work a bit on my alt DPS cause my DPS friends are being slow and I'm bored waiting... I'll just do the same thing except I'll skip ahead a key... 2's then 4's then 6's... already did them all up to 10's as healer (well most of them) but need to relearn warlock a bit before I do higher keys. :)
Outstanding!! Great sense of humor…
BOklahoma for Blizzard president!
I've voted, have you?
Im so gla you said that about addons. I have been saying that forecer. I dont play with any so i can get good.
I watched this three of four times and it hits home with me so hard I fully agree with everything you said thank you for making this
The "Get Good" community are like those medieval doctors that keep trying to use leeches to heal everything.
And you have to keep telling them that using Leeches (saying "Get Good") is kilIing their patients/games.
Yeah, wanting to beat some keys (which is exactly the same enemies as every other difficulty of that dungeon just more dmg and health) and expecting that people doing the challenge mode of m+ should know how to use their interrupts just a little (since they maybe could have learned that in the normal dungeons, or the heroic dungeons, or the normal mythic dungeons, or Delves, or while levelling), yeah no that's too much to ask.
Or learn how stuns work and have worked in the entire game since so far back it isn't even funny... or anything else really.
Too much to ask that someone doing keys have read the dungeon journal and maybe tried to learn something *before* they're inflicting themselves on other players, instead expecting them to just stop in the middle and drop all their own expectations and goals just to drag you up from the mud... I dunno man.
The "we want to stay bad" community has some wild takes sometimes.
@@Drasnier People need to understand to think outside of extreme terms.
Basically the "we don't want to learn anything" is just as bad as the "become a perfectionist, no mistakes" community.
The whole point is that lately, M+ has been leaning towards the later.
Certain game modes, when left unsupervised, will snowball people to perfect things more and more, leaving new comers to not trying said game mode because "you weren't here early to get up to our level"
The whole point is to alleviate this snowball effect as much as possible with systems that mitigate extremists of both camps.
@@ElKabong3345 Getting to the point where it's kind of perfected is kind of the whole deal of M+. It's the *inevitable* result of any challenge mode. After all (and I keep repeating this while I discuss this topic), it's the *same* dungeons that we just run again and again and again and again so we just get better at them naturally. You cannot face the same group of enemies 10-20 times and not realize what is going on, that's all there is to it.
It's not like there is much of any communication when you pug or even play with friends until the really highest keys. Not at a +2. Not at a +6. Not at a +10 or +11. We just *do*, if you get my meaning? And we fail, and then we win, and we just know better each time.
"hello."
"gg thxbye"
A snapshot of 95% of m+ communication that happens.
Also! And this is a HUGE also IMO.
The keys having different levels that you climb IS the very thing that actually ALLOWS new people come in and learn and not have to care all that much about what the people before them have done in every particular case, as opposed to something like Heroic Raids or whatever where people congregate from more skill levels and some people lose their shit there it's true.
But you have to understand that someone whose done all low keys on a character won't do those low keys ever again, they have moved on already and you literally won't see them until you catch up to them, ever, so they don't matter at all except for maybe living in your heads, or in the heads of some shitty guild leaders that sniffs their own farts.
Like I only return to low keys to boost my low-geared friends (hoping they will sometime this century join me in some 11's and 12's) or to play my alts. And I can tell you when I do my alts I just blast the shit out of the dungeon and bosses and don't really care much about what my party is doing, just hoping the healer and tank stay alive a bit so I can carry the damage, and if we wipe and die and disband it's cause of some casual's weak mental and not me. In higher keys the people I group with usually are just better so I can care even less LMAO.
You think I care enough to cuss someone out or whine that they're not doing the "meta" when I already got past this level before? Nah I'm not wasting that sort of effort. The toxic guys you meet, or that this part of the community complain about, the "perfectionists" that make it unfun to play are ALL of them noobs that don't know how to play and refuse to learn, and *they* will hold you back in sheer spite because they can't magically do what they see people do in the MDI or whatever stupid shit they watch and they get very mad from any critique, cause they're not getting to play the game "their way" (which is just being shit). They're the problem you have, not the "top" players or whatever cause you NEVER play with them (unless they carry your dps), and they're certainly not out here spending their time harassing other players in-game cause they frankly have better things to do with their time, and the worst thing they do is just not talk with you because they don't want to get verbally attacked.
The casual players BIGGEST problem is *other* casual players, I really mean this. You guys hate each other. Deeply. XD
@@ElKabong3345 I think my other message got removed, maybe I had a bad word or whatever.
The "make no mistakes" community you think of you never play with or interact with typically. You just interact with other players that haven't learned enough yet and get easily mad, cause that's what the keys do, they're a journey and you just meet people who are in the same range as you. "Top" players (lmao we just spent more time and ran more keys over the last few weeks) did the lower keys (2-10) already, they're not doing them anymore so they have no impact on you. The ones you meet who are toxic and talk about "meta" or whatever are usually just bad and prideful. They're the ones talking about "levels" and stuff but they just aren't good themselves you know?
The ones a casual player hates the most is another casual player, I swear... cause they're the ones who will cuss you out or whatever, the rest of us don't care that much, we want to have fun and we've done this stuff a lot. You think we get upset when we slum it on an alt in lower keys on occassion? nahhh. We just blast the heck out of the dungeon mobs and bosses and move on regardless of result really, hoping the healer and tank stays alive so we can do our thing. If someone is *really* hopeless and don't take to it if we decide to give a tip or two (usually it's just "you gotta dispel this" or something like that) then we might dip after a bit but the ones going mental and logging off mid-run are usually casuals who watched too much MDI or whatever and just don't have skill to match their grand aspirations, and they want to SKIP SKIP SKIP all the content because they think there's some sort of status involved by doing big number keys, missing the point where the people getting to high number keys just get there because they have fun. It's just how it is.
Was thinking of making a video myself of this same topic. Love the intro. I feel the same way.
Are you also a 40 year old Dad? Because your humor is right up my alley.
Great content. The dying from shit and not knowing what the fuck happened hits home hard. Then you have to go watch youtube videos just to figure it out.
As a primarily solo player, this XP has been awesome. Interestingly, I have done more group content recently than ever before. I do dungeons, raids, PvP ad goldfarm, but M+ is just to exclusive to be interesting. Decent management of M+ would include a path for noobs into the activity, I think. Its beyond obvious that M+ needs a better method to cue.
Just did a 8 SV. Tank pulled the whole hall and wiped, then blamed the shammy for not hero. Then left. All within 3 min. Lol.
The MDI wannabes are the worst
Probably didn't even used a defensive
TBF Lust is pretty much needed for that hall, or best used in that hall over EDNA, but if the tank didn’t say anything about it before hand then he’s a silly bean
That actually seems pretty resonable ngl
i mean in fairness, imo, that IS a lust pull, but as the other guy said if he didn't communicate that he's a fool lol
Bro I think I was in that group with you I was the shaman lololol
I mained a resto druid from TBC to Legion and completed loved healing in all facets of the game. Since that time, owing to the reasons you have mentioned in this video, I have not healed a group, raid or BG in almost 10 years. The main trigger for my change came from the ever increasing effort that healing required. I saw healing go from a mathematical puzzle of mana management to a AOE healing, Interrupting, debuffing and expected dps role. It simply went from an enjoyable activity to an anxiety ridden exercise over a few expansions. Sadly, I have tried to get back into healing a few times, however, every time it ends in the same way. That is, me thinking it is so much easier to DPS, regardless of wait times. Why put yourself through that level of stress and anxiety in a activity that exists to provide a form of enjoyable entertainment.
"mathematical puzzle" more like you were just young and dumb back then
Yea, but the affixes are in-game. Press "I" and go to the M+ dungeons tab and you can mouse over them. Fair point on Xal'atah's not being descriptive enough though.
I was referring more to the seasonal affix but did a poor job specifying that. I feel like the other ones are well explained but could also use some tips in how to manage them. Appreciate your comment.
Dude amazing contents!!! Do more please thank you
I play Resto Druid and just hit Keystone Master and i dont know how many times ive been told "you should play Resto Shaman"
Yeah well, who cares? Honestly, I've been a Resto Shaman since Warlords of Draenor. Dumb people are always going on about meta classes, why should you care, they're probably bad... we were never meta in all that time, now we have a brief window were we're just good to bring because Blizzard made some ridiculous affixes and we can just deal with them. Nice.
Next rotation? Probably back to Resto Druid being the top pick for forever again because they'll be able to go into cat form at the higher key levels and deal a tiny bit extra dps compared to the others, and things will be back to normal LOL.
Just play the goddamn thing you like and don't play with people you don't like. You're a healer you don't have to take shit from anyone, like what's the DPS gonna do? Not run keys because they have no healer? XD like whaaaa...?
Heck just learn what the few things you can't deal with are and make sure you bring something to the party that can (hey a shaman IS a good bet right now, but ANY shaman can do what a resto shaman can do and ppl just bully you and insist YOU play it so THEIR spot in the group doesn't get taken by a DPS shammy, because they're angry no-skill bitches hahahaha)
EDIT: Yeah yeah I see you said you have Keystone Master so you know all this. It just triggers me when people go off about that crap too
This is the second video of yours that I'm watching & I'm loving them, thank you for your content! Honestly as a BM Hunter I don't even try to pug because it's depressing and people are shitheads, I am ilvl 608 & I'm still looked at like a schlub. I just run w/my guild here & there and am very slowly leveling my rating and HEAVILY rely on very geared, very knowledgeable friends who have run mythics for years to help me grow. As someone who has played WoW for nearly 20 years as a casual player who NOW wants the challenge of M+ & raids, I have to say the learning curve is STEEEEEEEEP because as you said, so much information ISN'T IN GAME, so if you don't know your way around wowhead & google or have great friends, you're basically left high & dry, told to "get good" and have zero idea how the hell to do that.
no offence but with 608 you are a scrub for the most people that do m+... i say that not to diss you but at this point you can easy have 615/620 even without m+... people will always take the bigger nubers and to be fail while i like the bm hunter... right now he is just bad for m+. that all people will see. two numbres and a class color.
1 min in and I am subscribed
Man, that middle section there was a DAMNING indictment against Blizz. They need to do profit sharing with the community if they're gonna rely on the community to develop half their game for them.
BOK...you are speaking the truth
As a priest i would love 4 little friends who, once activated, go about healing, damaging and supporting independent of my own casting.
a pet/minion healing class? would be sick but maybe unreliable
Sod
Good natured Boklahoma is a riot
Dark Bo is a snarling beast. Whoa
But everything he said in this video is 100% accurate
I main Frost DK, and this is best Frost DKs have ever been. But I don’t even want to play it because I want to play my Holy Paladin and my Brewmaster. So much for that
Damn good video, good job
Damn love your rants
Funny! Good points too. I also really enjoyed the fishing video, and have referred back to it on several occasions. Great job! OH, and Hook 'Em Horns!
I agree with the m+ lfg with the working your way up the ladder.
Got a red hair for 3 years now, there is where the trouble lies.
I like this idea of a queue system existing for M+. If people could start with Dungeon Finder-like queueing for M0 (as long as they have the gear) and be able to automatically queue for next M+ levels in the same way once they have successfully completed/timed current level for all seasonal dungeons (and have progressed their gear), I see that as a tremendous QoL improvement (one which might make people like me at least give m+ a shot). People should still be allowed to pug for faster increase in M+ level by doing it manually (similar to how it is right now, somewhat). Great video.
God I fucking Love this channel.
In game tools that provide that in-game animations are great. Like combos animations in god of war or
Mortal Kombat
The bottom line is, the LFG system is miserable to deal with for average players and even when it’s not miserable it still takes too long to find groups. For a game to be successful in this day and age you need to respect players time and solo queue is the way to do that.
The system can group players together that have lower scores and they can learn together and earn gear. As they improve, they get slotted into higher keys and get better gear.
The battleground blitz system is very popular and while the MMR system has its issues, it has still increased participation in PvP by a large amount. I believe participation would increase in the same way for solo queue M+. Players just want to be able to play the game and progress without dealing with picky or toxic LFG groups.
"...people need to get good but for people to get good they need to get groups!" AMEN! I guess we need to state the obvious here for all the elitist snobs. I mean really - it's why I just don't do em, I have other ways to waste my time!
Your idea for the group finder requiring 10 2s,3s is a good idea.
1 for every dungeon in the seasonal cycle refreshing every start.
The addons talk had me laughing, games been out for 20 years and we still got addons to yell at us not to stand in bad stuff
Time Stamp 17:55; Keep in mind that Chinese players are now playing WoW again in The War Within whereas they were not able to play in Dragonflight. That can skew the player participation numbers compared to the end of the last expansion.
Well said !
As an Discipline Priest *Oracle* stuck at 9 keys, anything 10 and above Nah-uh for me.
Can't even get into a Grim Batol +8 (the only key i haven't timed 9)... why would they even take a Priest... Shaman is 25% stronger than any other healers.
The other day i saw Madzkill press 3 buttons and he was at 2M HPS can't even reach that even if i pressed 15 buttons (my max being around 1.6M HPS)
More than the gear, the classes and hero talents were a bigger priority. Now Blizzard tries to get away nerfing all the dungeons which i understand is easier than balancing all the healers... but the problem is that damage is done, in people's mind Shaman = least failure possible
People don't realize how much Blizzard fucked up on this one...
Best wow content creator
Gotta make the group as the solution
Not touching m+. The least fun I’ve had on a video game and the people are the most toxic I’ve ever encountered. No thanks 👋!
i'm dying this is to funny.
Well said. A Mythic+ queue should also be keyless and come with a deserter debuf. Like you said, not every level of Mythic+ has to be queueable right away. Practice can make perfect, but I am skeptical that a Mythic+ que system will improve players skills all that much.
Yeah, got gud!
Procedes to download several addons and weak auras to make the work and thought for you, so you only react to alerts on the screen
Amazing video thank you. I am a 8/8 Heroic Rogue 616 gear, I can’t find and group accepting me high than 4+. And I have no reason to go there. I need to get 8+. Comon blizzard
No shit Sherlock, at the same keys they apply people that have better gear and better score than you lmao
@@eppattv no shit sherlock
ah yea shucks team guess we dont have a curse dispell ggs
You sir are speaking the purest of facts. May the light bless you.
I typically watch dungeon walk through guides, like the masterclass series quazzi does. He covers every mob and boss and all their abilities. I was running 25s before the change in pugs because I took the time to educate myself on everything in the dungeons.
Quazii is the goat
They only person I've ever seen so a guide like his was darkmech but IDK if he even does content anymore.
I believe a proving grounds type of scenario to teach m+ basics would be a good idea
the addon part is perfect....make the game easier kill all addons...i hate it
Nothing but facts. Great video!!!!!
Paladin is and forever will be the best
first time seeing your channel, awesome video. i have mained my warrior since vanilla, switched fury at the end of bc/beginning of wrath when titan's grip was added for the play-style, and aesthetics. this season it has been real tough to get into groups as a fury warrior after the nerfs, and due to our lack of utility. like, why would you get a fury warrior when you could get a paladin...they kept nerfing fury because our dps was just too high for their liking during the heroic week before m+ even started!... despite after the burst window we generally fall off a cliff. warrior has little more to offer to a group besides their dps so it deserves to be a bit higher. the only real utility we offer is battleshout, interrupt, and short duration stuns. it has been especially difficult to get into groups this week because we have no dispells and spell reflect doesn't work on the affix because it has no real "origin" source to reflect back to. the only advice i ever get if i bring this sort of thing up is (switch to a better class),,,the warrior way is not often the easiest, and its been my main forever...too late to switch now.
I dont play with any addons because im autistic and alot of the sdd9ns just blare loud sounds and flash stuff on my screen so ive always played with out them i just watch videos for each dungeon learn the fights and then go in im currently 2330 rateing on disc priest you do not need addons for mythic plus
Man I don't use addons that tell me what to do either (just Plater so I can make the nameplates less horrible and ElvUI to make my UI look nice and smooth), but personally I've always considered them for being *for* autistic people or maybe little children to help them out in case they get confused... like the mobs in the game already scream their attacks at you, with big red arrows and flashing circles too, and mobs casting dangerous spells usually have more dangerous-looking spell effects going around them, right? XD It's like just learn what they do already and win win win win... :D
preach
As a returning player very experienced in all types of MMO challenging content, this is bad. For example, how long between when the affixes occur? I can’t find that anywhere in order to evaluate whether talenting a 3 min warrior cleanse is even worth it
How about just running some low keys (which you have to do anyway) where the margins are much larger, and then you just... experience it and learn from the experience like EVERYONE ELSE is doing.
Why are you so much worse than us that we can learn this way but you can't? I don't believe it.
Also it's meant to be ish random. But every few minutes as a safe bet... if you need the cleanse you just talent it and use it when you can, no? Get some knowledge for what classes you play alongside bring and you'll be gucchi, they can't hand you everything on a silver platter either.
Like you want specific cd's for the affix? Do you also want a detailed description of the movement-speed of every mob so you can evaluate if you want more move speed or not, before you dare play? Do you want to see detailed damage reports (which you can with a dps addon lul) to evaluate if you run a dmg reduction trinket or a deal more dmg trinket, BEFORE you play any?
Before every boss fight would you like a little tutorial video to run so you can see the entire fight before hand and a lady voice explain to you what buttons you should press? (if so there is an addon for that I'm sure...)
How much miniscule information do you want to shove into your brain before you just GO THERE, you see what happens and then you go "Oh I need this next time, mhm!" xD
As a tank I'm not sure if I'd join a queue tho
Dungeon queues typically come with a bonus for Tanks and Healers. You might partake in a queue as a Tank if Blizzard sweetens the pot enough for you.
@@christopherdaffron8115 true didn't think of that. Like extra crests and stones
always watch your videos wishing you were a dev 😢
Healers and Tanks probably won't use a m+ queue system, dps are still going to wait.
He speaks facts. I've stopped pugging and using group finder...the community has gotten out of control. I just do the delves and dailies...did LFR to see the story pieces, other than that done. Sad that I have gone this route after playing for 20 years. Seems like it has just gotten progressively worse since Wrath.
Yes waiting, yes fishing, yes delving. Have not done a single mythic this season. Don't want to "gid gud". Pugging m+ seems to have gone toxic really hard. And I'm not the kind of guy who tries a plethora of groups, that either want me to play "meta" or FotM (never have been) or are just constantly lecturing about "getting good". I still love to think about Burning Crusade: if you were reasonably able to tank a dungeon on heroic, an average friendly guy, willing to improve on your gameplay, you had least five groups, that would invite you as tank for a dungeon or two. No rating, no meta, no RIO, no quitting. Just your name.
Same. I've engaged with the system in prior expansions, and pugged to KSM multiple times, but I'm not raiding or doing M+ at all this season and I'm not really missing it either. I'll still queue up for blow up the odd TW dungeon for the lulz but past that I just don't care at all for instanced group content anymore.
Let there be a page where dps are in a list where they get invited from
Great idea! It would also help those more casual players to get good in content they might otherwise skip and therefore help out the whole community.
Funny that you bring up tuning issues because it's "absolutely" not like people have been playing the beta for months, pointing out that m+ is a bit overtuned, while Blizz just simply didn't care. The m+ declines amount is a direct result of that and while Blizz probably thought it's not any big issue, they started the expansion with awesome numbers and then dropped the ball.
EDIT: And for the record I'm currently finishing up my +11s so I know how overtuned this season is, first hand experience. Oh boy do I not look forward to finding out how a +12 feels like.
I don't think it's overtuned at all (as a healer main.) I think most of the dps in my groups are just kind of bad usually, which makes climbing keys a bit rough cause it just takes too long, but the incoming damage is fine for the most part, as long as interrupts are done half-well and people actually play (The big rock boss in Stonevault being an exception). I can't wait to see 12's and finally get my face stomped in and hopefully have some fun with my buddies while we figure it out (unless they never get there which it's looking like they won't and I'll have to pug it and just hope the DPS aren't bad). Personally I don't WANT 12's to be anything like easy.
But yeah you're right, they had beta testers and did almost nothing with the information they got
@@Drasnier Bro I said overtuned at 11s which was maybe an overstatement but I already am at 12s and…BRUH…
@@MeekoEdits Heck, maybe you're right. 12's might very well be overtuned. I mean I don't get their thinking when they add extra difficulty on it beyond the normal scaling, I'll say that. Bound to cause problems for themselves.
I would love to do M+ since as a dedicated mount hunter there are some pretty sweet mounts gated behind it. Unfortunately I don't feel like there's any way I could just jump in now and have a remote chance to ladder up (I'm a fury warrior... I have many many alts, but that's the class I know best). So, Delves have been amazing for me. Sad to me that they had to create that mode for people who can't or won't deal with their other (what I'm sure is a great) mode.
Asmongold needs tonsee this video
I can't believe people watch that gremlin
At very very least. Mythic zero dungeon finder. I've said to many for several expacs that mythic zero should be a skill wall to keys. Must complete before the access. It at least guarantees that you've at least experienced the fights, even if you havent learned them. There should also be a penalty to leave a key before completion
Add a vote leave, and a debuff if you leave before timer is up or vote has passed that increases in stacks exponentially that drains any key you joins timer by the stack number in seconds. Debuff resets with the weekly reset. This would make mid key leavers extinct overnight.
Interesting video. One of the issues in many policies that try and catch the folks that get left behind is they need a bit of cutting the potential in order for the "fix" to have any effect. Happens a lot in economics models youll see an inflationary unintended outcome.
So it seems like you're thinking the cultures standards are too high, and should be forced to be lowered. Im guessing since you want to leave the group finder tool in, you would add in a bounty system for the keyholder, tanks, and healers to use a queue system to fill out a group. That way you incentivize it.
And hopefully this would change the culture? It seems to me you have to really emphasize that is blizzard adding in better quality education tools for these queue DPS BEFORE you say they need to add the queue system for mythic. Otherwise you already can predict the outcome.
A bunch of DPS sitting in a 2 hour queue as they use the group finder and get rejected.
Either people trust, you timed 10 times, here is a rating to show that, or they don't, blizzard forcing the interactions to happen would mean something else.
Idk, I always make my own dungeon and raid groups, and that way, I do every content that I wanna do on that play session
I was going to spend the week gitting gud but Hurricane Milton took out electricity and water for the week. Not likely to get it back til Thursday.
All the M+ Meta gods are going to be angry that I didn't get my vault rewards.
The more i learn about what it takes to play m+, the more it seems like bliz just want us to raid instead 😭
The loss of M+ rating is an awesome idea
Just did a +6 City of Threads where the mage never used Time Warp, and every after boss, when asked why, he said he forgot
I consider myself above average but I've mained non lust classes forever and when I play alts with lust I ALWAYS forget to do it
@@kalibos sure but if you're reminded before and during a boss, and after a boss, for all three bosses?
@@MrDoctorDave then I say "what's lust"
It’s wild that there is now a meta needed to play in mythic + or you can’t join, being meta doesn’t make a person know their class they just spam buttons, I miss the days of players that were actually good due to knowing their class
The only place you find meta "requirements" is in the very highest keys, like 13 and up. Otherwise situations change. In some dungeons and some weeks certain classes are good to have one of in your party, but it's not like you have to stack up on only "meta" classes (which change almost all the time) to be able to do m+, that's ridiculous. I've done a bunch of keys by now and I see almost every class regularly.
The only people seriously dabbling in the "meta" stuff are NON-pug groups of friends that want to try specific things to try to succeed just a TINY bit better when they're already running like a well-oiled machine together, and these folks usually have several alts they'll play around with. Like... you weren't getting invited to those groups REGARDLESS of what you're playing my friend... The only hope is to pick a main and GET GOOD AT IT. If you do you'll just climb... people aren't really that picky. They'll pick one class that gives a party buff, probably a shaman if they can this week since we just remove the affix (bad affix IMO as a shaman player) and then whatever. Just as long as you've timed the previous level of key I think most people will accept you. :)
@@Drasnier what class are you? And you say you see mixed, how many Panda tanks do you see? Joe about priest or Druid healers?
@@ajewell8918 Sorry for the wall of text, I like actually saying stuff.
Well, me personally main Resto Shaman. Been a one-trick since Warlords of Draenor so don't @ me about it being "meta" for 5 minutes right now, our kit literally hasn't changed since Legion (except for the new mastery buff).
I got to 10's on two dungeons, but I'm stuck on 9's for most of the others because the dps I've joined up with doesn't do mechanics (like they can't kill the adds on 2nd boss of NW, what am I supposed to do when they can't even do that, right? I've tried it 5 times now in the last two days and that or them failing the hook on 3rd boss is always the problem) and my friends aren't playing rn so now I'm playing my destruction warlock instead and gonna climb to 9's or 10's with that. So I guess I'll get to experience all these issues finding grps, though so far until 5's the issue is absolutely timing the keys since so many players don't know how to play and every key is a gamble. I just had an aug doing less than 100k dps including their party buffs like wtf...
As for what people PLAY... I certainly enjoy panda tanks, they are usually *way* better players than your average IMO, and they're absolutely my *favourite* to heal, but there are way more Blood Dk's (which I hate to heal) and warriors around since they're less complicated. Blood DK's attract a certain type of player I usually don't get along with, the "my class can solo things and I'm amazing so everyone else sucks" kind, you can usually bet that DK tanks will leave at the first sign of struggle after cussing you out just don't invite them...
I haven't seen many druid healers playing my warlock yet, but the one I saw did juuuust fine, way better than the shaman that never pressed spirit link totem at least, and the priest healers I've had *would* have been fine if they just weren't so bad that they never dispelled things.
Like the issue isn't the classes. It's 99% player skill. And you're not getting away from that in pug world no matter what class you invite (except affliction warlock, minor mistakes mess their dps up so don't bother. And random pug augmentation evokers usually aren't worth the risk either... just because of what kind of players are usually attracted to roleplaying as a dragon, you know?)
Is there a discord or does BO have one that would be good for finding groups of like minded ppl to progress through M+ that allows everyone to learn at their pace respectfully.
I've wanted to tank this expansion, I leveled a pally first which is difficult to say the least. I have a prot warrior also and I'm interested in doing mythics but jumping in head first and it actually being a race from start to finish opposed to a dungeon is actually the worst thing I could imagine for someone trying to learn content
I'll say it again and again. The score needs to capture more than 1 variable. Timing or not timing is not cutting it. Your score should reflect whether you interrupt, die less, dps or heal, use CDs etc. Everyone knows not all 2k players are the same. Some are carriers and some are carries. If you earned your score by being good then a lot less keys would fail. They system could give you a recap at the end of the dungeon saying something like, to increase your score further, interrupt more, die less, do more dmg etc. Then at least people would be encouraged to get good if they want to go higher in keys.
@@jgn1977 great idea.
We don't WANT more variables. We ONLY want to know if, when you sign up for our 10, if you at least have timed a 9. And that's all the score does, it says "You beat this level of key in time", and it just uses numbers for it for whatever reason.
That's it. Do you think I'm sitting there poring over people's logs or summaries before I invite them to a dumb key? NO! Did you do the previous key? No? Then no invite. Yes? Invite. Congratulations! (Also personally I don't invite people with degenerate names but hey, you can learn why yourself.)
You want more stats? Ok. I can dig that, cause I'm *good* at this game and I do lots of healing or lots of damage and I use my entire kit, whatever I want. I won't have an issue with making it even more elitist, if you want a bigger divide that is A-OKAY with me! XD
@@Drasnier Bigger divide? I want a smaller divide. People who should be doing 5s have no business doing 10s and their score should reflect that. They shouldn't get carried in a 9 by 4 great players then get the score then look to me like they should be in 10s.
You should make a video about the addon arms race that forced blizz to make encounters so overcomplicated and difficult. Notice that about the time weakauras came out subs were at an all time high, meaning they went down ever since... A high end players UI is more complex than an f-22 pilots HUD. Addons are great for sweaty try hard leets, but horrible for the business model, player retention and getting new subs.
edit: I myself years ago spent many an entire night working on weakauras and quite enjoyed the challenge, but spending 5 hours working on a third party addon to play a game "better" cannot be healthy for the game as a whole, as a community.
This is hilarious...
the hardcore m+ key pushers. and that includes a lot of TH-camrs are very toxic about this sorda thing. They rather have inexperienced players leave the game/m+ than give them a chance to learn. They are super selfish about it.
But you have every chance to learn. Do you think we just began at high keys??? Wild. We just don't want your whining to make Blizzard make things too easy, because what would the fun be if you could just stroll in and win without any effort at all? Why play then?
... we would love for you to learn. You have SO many tools for it too. Dungeon Journal explains every boss and their abilities IN DETAIL. You can run the new dungeons with NPC's to learn the ropes, and then you have normal, heroic and then mythic dungeons to get through before you should even THINK about doing m+... and all the mobs are exactly the same in those difficulties so you should have no issue learning what mobs do what if you just wanted to take some time for it, AS WE HAVE DONE!
I think you guys who are complaining so much that you don't get to win when you have done nothing to learn are the selfish ones actually... Like you just don't realize how little there actually is to learn to get good or whatever, because you're making up this huge wall in your own head that just isn't there in reality, and you're failing to see how some things interact in the game and this stops you from progressing.
Now you also have Delves where you can learn the basics of how to play your class with some slight challenge and without ANY stress. Will you though? I guess time will tell. :)
Like the game really is as simple as DPS classes press their "do more damage" buttons every 2 minutes and then usually have a rotation of 4 other buttons they press in the right order. It really just goes like 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 then once again 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 and so on and so on. Then when an enemy tries to cast a spell you can use another ability to stop them usually. And maybe you have a stun, and a self-heal or other defensive.
And then the ENTIRE point of the game is trying to beat the dungeons that ARE trying to kill you, and m+ just makes things deal more dmg and have more hp, like that's it.
If you know a mythic dungeon you know what's gonna happen in EVERY key level of that dungeon. Just learn it? Or don't play m+ where the entire point is doing the same content again and again because you just think it's *that* fun, go do something else with your time holy moly
EDIT: And I'd like to add that personally I NEVER see anyone ask for actual help understanding anything in the game. And if I offer to explain things I get DEAD SILENCE back 90% of the time, 5% I get cussed out for being elitist and just 5%, 1 in 20, someone actually responds and tries to learn.
So I don't know man... imo you all are just digging your own holes.
@@Drasnier Most people play the content that blizzard gives them the gear to do. So if they get easy 610. they skip normal and heroic dungeons and go right into mythic dungeons. without ever learning the mechanics before that.
@@trancer03 Jupp. I had a 610 healer in my +4 stonevault today. Absolute rubbish, and I eventually found out he was wearing a STR weapon. Then he refused to change, saying "I know my build isn't perfect" like my poor buddy... builds aren't a thing. You just put on the gear you have with the highest numbers (hopefully the right numbers ofc)
And STR on an INT class is decidedly *the wrong* numbers xD
Fantastic video! Really great points. ❤
The absolute most annoying thing to me is that as far as I know there is nothing that indicates what can and cannot be CC’d. Sometimes my HOJ just does nothing. I’m not a new player. I’ve KSM’d and AotC plenty of times. This is one of the most infuriating systems in the game.
Ive pugged ksh every seaspn since s1 of shadowlands. This is the first time i said fk it and am just pvping and logging out. Garbage community
It sucks. I'm a healer. Dragonflight season 1, i tried M+ for the first time ever. I LOVED it. I ended up getting keystone hero on 2 healers (mistweaver and resto shaman) and blood DK for 3 seasons. (Always pugged) I took a break in season 4 but I was excited to come back for TWW and get back into TWW but I after hearing about ask the changes, I just don't even want to try.
Don't listen to someone that can't do even mid-tier keys without having a panic attack maybe... it's exactly the same as it used to be, just with IMO less fun affixes (especially as resto shaman as they have every tool they need to deal with every dungeon and affix this particular rotation).
I'm a Resto Shaman main and it's gr8 imo. Like if you got keystone hero before it won't be much harder now, just get past the valley of doom (what I call the low keys because in low keys you need to deal with all the players that refuse to learn anything but still think they deserve to win every key they join and BOY will you have to heal a lot there with all the extra damage players take), once you're in like +6 keys or maybe +7 keys now that it's been a few weeks of all the bad players getting free gear from vaults, then you'll be feeling pretty good about playing and it'll all be good, and the dps and tanks won't suck as much. :)
Sure eventually the 15-second death penalty comes and it sucks but heck, that's just how it is. You'll get the keystone hero in no time as long as you don't stress the F out like it sounds like Boklahoma kind of does...
Just gotta be good at dispelling and using your healing cd's, but then that's all you do as a healer right? XD
I played M+ in DF season 3. It was OK. I got my KSM. However, I'm not interested in learning all the extra stuff to stay alive in keys nowadays. Happy to hear folks like the game mode but it's not for me. My resto shammy sticks to raiding.
I play tank and heals. I usually push for ksm aotc and sometimes cutting edge. I am in delves. I wont be pugging until the toxic is less brain bleed inducing. I know a lot of healers and a fair few tanks who are the same. Why pug and be spoken to like crap by idoits who think mplus is pull big ignore everything scream at healer when they die when I can have fun and mellow out with a couple of mates in delves and still get okay gear?
The numbers for runs aren't all that promising honestly. They're higher than S4 of DF, but S4 was the last season of an expansion while TWW is still just beginning, and while one might argue that participation isn't comparable to previous seasons given the key squish one must also admit that there is no real way to progress once you're geared from Delves apart from, as usual, M+ and Raiding, hence it's a fair assumption I think that many of the people running keys now are those that ran them traditionally.
Could be wrong, could be Delves are all people really need, but given the snail's pace of crest acquisition through them it seems inevitable people would push themselves into M+ even if only for crests.
Start your own group and run your own keys. Are you declining yourself?
Bok let me join your guild there big and bad