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Pugging M+ is a miserable job application simulator, with mechanics that encourage the absolute worst behavior. It's not surprising that very few players even bother with it anymore.

Not something i do often, but ill comment. Great video, i very much agree with your takes on this stuff. im speaking from the perspective of a ATT addon freak, top 500 EU transmog collector. from mid legion onwards, ive got keystone master and curve every single season up untill now. im trying to collect as many things i can and still push m+ to a decent point every season. i know this game inside out. i 100% agree on the island take. its so transparent that from the times of timeless island onwards they do the same thing every time. i mean, if its not broken then dont fix it, but come on. this shit is getting too much predictible. every time they introduce a new zone its always the same. take TWW launch for example - coming from DF you knew there will be a renown track (just like in DF), there will be a island zone (just like in DF), there will be a bigger zone (just like the cavern place in DF, undermine now), i mean i can go all day with this. and when they actually have the balls to do something else, something that this game didnt have like the maw with the zone mechanic (which i loved just for clarity), what did they get? "this is too hard, i cant mount, i cant zoom the worldquests". if i was a developer working on the world content i would seriously question myself if its even worth doing something other than the things they do. looking at the numbers bell is presenting, the best bet is to repeat the working open world formula and not think much about it. people complain that this world content stuff is repetetive, but the maw showed them that being innovative isnt a good move (that being said the maw was a tiny bit too punishing, ill admit). so when it comes to open world i cant really say what is the solution. m+ as it is now is fine in my opinion - it has its problem with the key depletion stuff, the crests ect, but thats an easy problem to solve. the bigger one is raids. i have no fucking idea why mythic is still a thing. there arent many guilds that have an active roster of 20 people doing this thing weekly. i would actually do mythic if not the group restriction of 20 people. but as it is now it just makes no sence. axe mythic, leave LFR for ultra normies, normal for normal normies and heroic for people that care. code in a hard mode for like a boss or two for those that really want something harder and thats it. delves are fine IMO, but i have no idea what is the purpose of anything over tier 8. i did 10s once for the achivement - it was challenging, fun, rewarding. but other than that i will never do a 10 from this point on. to be honest i can barely force myself to do an 8 and i have like 40 keys sitting on me. that zekvos or whatever is his name boss is actually pretty well done in my opinion - the normal mode is challenging and fair so everyone can do it. the ?? mode is something that not everyone will do, but the dev time to scale the normal mode into this isnt a big deal so its a perfect middle ground. but still, why on earth are there two more delve levels above 8 is beyond me..... and pvp is just a meme. let it die. great vid dude, leaving a sub. sorry for the messy form of this comment, lol

The problem with retail is always going to be the game loop. I complete aotc on heroic and I got 2500 io with 2 character in like 3 months. Then I don't have anything to do, yeah I can go to mythic raiding, but it required a good and focused team, but the drama and stupidity isn't worth it for a minimum increase in ilvl that I can get doing m+. So yeah the game loop at end game required to do the same content over and over and over for minimum results, it's simple not worth it. Also remember yo have to paid a monthly subscription so is really not worth to pay for boring yourself to dead XD.

Blizzard putting "A lot of development time on m+" are you mental??? They don't put jack shit on m+, I mean the effort is so low that we got tyrannical + fortify at the same time now, that is how much effort they are putting in m+. They don't know what to do anymore.

Renown rewards are god awful. I love the idea of world questing but currently it feels like a bad checklist to get bad rewards (I like the Champion rewards you get but once you outgear it, what's the point?)

I am in the minority lmao! I have killed Zekvir on level one, have renown 25 across the board and had so many anniversary tokens that I literally have nothing left to buy aside from timewalking badges. That being said, I am bored to tears with the game at the moment. I am so sick of the re-colors and re-releasing of old stuff that I have already seen. "Do you like that outfit... here it is in 5 color variations." Same for mounts, old dungeons & raids. I enjoyed leveling but after 20 years of playing, I literally have 35 characters between 70-80 (just on retail). Not to mention leveling is so stupid fast that I cannot even TRY to keep my character geared enough to carry thier own weight at this point. If I were not disabled, with way too much time on my hands, I would throw in the towel.

I don’t think the difficulty of mythics is a problem. I think the amount of time invested is. A mythic shouldn’t be longer than 20 mins. There’s times where I want to play a mythic but the kids are around and at any time they could need something and I can’t break away for 5 mins to fix the problem. So before I get involved in a mythic I have to consider “am I likely to be interrupted by something during the next 30 to 40 minutes?” Beyond that the mythic lost is just awful. The game is one good mythic list away from being fun again.

I’m not playing this game anymore until Blizzard puts a serious effort into the game. I did all I wanted in the new expansion, but this isle crap again is just calling it in.

Nearly all of player time is spent between running regular battlegrounds and epic, battlegrounds and leveling outs to run those and occasionally doing old content for trans moms and mounts

And a lot of these people who have 2K score also have AOTC

Making the game competitive sucks the fun out of the game. Classic wow does have its "competitive" areas but those are based on community goals or personal goals with no very hard metrics outside of gear or high warlord/gm etc. The sandbox RPG style of classic must return to retail if blizzard ever wants to regain sub numbers like they once had. However, I don't see that ever occurring and I doubt the modern developers understand how to create that style of game design. That's why I play classic wow because I can do what I want, when i want, how I want and it's really up to me while not feeling pressured to perform unless I want to create the pressure for myself.

I’m fine with it. 1.0 is coming. Not sure why people play something they don’t like.

Those people in the <5% statistics usually have multiple accounts, Only play WoW, Play patch after patch no matter how "bad" they're, buy store mounts, tmog, tokens, pre-order expansions. They're there always paying Blizzard.

funeral for WoW PvP. kek.

9:50 yeah weird so few players did the event. I collected all the tier 2 sets over a month of time slowly then let my sub run out. Yeah I think the devs catering to the hardcore players has been a thing for too long. Engaging world content and dungeons and raids are a thing of the past.

i dont watch retail wow content much but youtube recommended me you for a reason. good video to watch while im sick with covid and can't do anything. subbed.

The thing that kills any game is apathy, and it's looking like WoW is heading in this direction. People just...don't care about the game as much, anymore. And it's only going to get worse.

4:00 while the statement is true, jordan peterson would now say: but this is not automaticlly something good xD there are people who are stuck in a timeloop, people who had theyre last charachter development (im talking about that u cant buy with gold) with 13th when they discovered alkohol. u cant tell me that ur getting all 3-4 years *nostalgia* over this plain game. its for people who are 30+ with modern computers and addons who want the *challange* of beein kept busy in IRL by a 1 button game.

There's too much scar tissue after 20 years of development to go back to a humble world where you're just an normal adventurer exploring a dangerous world. Turtle WoW is the only way to go from here on out, unfortunately.

Been subbed for a few months but great yet surprising again to see rational takes like this. You've got a buisness sense it seems better than mine where i see this and think this is obvious. I clap myself on the back for finishing +2. Thats, about it. I like all the classes so im just chillin. Play a few hours a week. Not even weekly quests. I love wow. Just failed a PUG normal raid of BRD and had a blasts. Im not saying normal should be easier. Just letting people know ive played, mostly healed 17 years of WoW content off and on since wrath released and i cant carry a normal raid to completion without my guild. Something a think a normal experience that isnt the redditor "i failed a +10 how crazy is that" is not normal gaming time commitment.

Retail has no real goals. Just a never ending hamster wheel that occasionally changes, slightly. I have 'daily' chores in rl..I game for a break from those. Legion was awesome. SOD is awesome. New Pandaland was awesome. Vanilla- always awesome. If they sell housing stuff in shop instead of connecting it to in game exploration, story quests, elusive boss kills this whale is done with retail. What the hell ever happened to great story quests? And what they did to crafting is a crime. Kept 4 Crafters at peak- till Dragonland. I barely play retail at all these days. I was on original beta and have logged on 2X since anniversary. All they offered was gear I already have, with more pixels. I'll retire my 20 yr old veterans with their Rhok'Delar, Tara staff, vanilla raid legacy achieves, etc. They deserve the rest :)

One look at your channel explained why you spew such idiocy. You just seem tired of wow. I would suggest not playing it or bothering with it if this is how you “love” the game. Come back when it’s to your liking. I love the current state of the game and is why I returned. Didn’t like the previous so didn’t play it. Also with the pvp comparison you compared US region participation only. US is a trash region with low player counts so 10k lobbies in one day is good for it. But you shoulda checked EU to see the actual state.

It's an offshoot of the "life-long musician listens to the Beatles for the first time." Sure, bud.

Bequin reference lol

i only do pvp

Agree to disagree. I hate classic and am currently much happier in retail. Everything is just so painfully slow in classic. Just to raid you are FORCED to join a guild, chit chat and be nice all the time, its HORRIBLE. Give me a clickable queue where I can get in and get out.

turn it the FUHk down.

Ye bro, but you gotta realise that there are people out there, ONLY doing 1 or 2 types of content. Some people only do open world, some people only do achievements (be it new or old), some people only farm mounts or transmog, some people only do RP, some people only do M+, or only PvP, or only Raids, or there are the people that only farm stuff to make as much gold as possible. So ofcourse you will see lower percentages here and there because the playerbase is so divided. I personally play as much content as I can, I have a PvP only char, but I aim for 2.5-3k m+ score with atleast 1 char per season, I try getting AOTC every season, I'm also in a M raiding guild (but I only do it for fun with my guildies and stuff), I'm over renown 20 with all the factions in TWW atm, so... yea... but this is also cuz I have time on my hand xD most of the people don't have the time I have, because I'm self employed and can work from home as much as I want. The data people show on social medias doesn't mean anything imo. Gl and hf bros!

nice video. but cataclysm is even worse. from tbc to cata participation was nice but 70percent of playerbase are BUYERS 20 percent are iranian/etc sellers and organizers 5 percent are broke noobs 2 percent are twitchies and u maybe have 3 percent of actual decent or good players from the old garde

All this proves is that the majority of active WoW accounts are bots

I have a bad feeling the core dev team have been replaced with a bunch of “self-conscious individuals” who are glued to social media reactions where only the top 1-5% player base cares to engage. The skewed data and conclusions from surface-level analytics without deep thinking is what gets us to this shocking level of detachment in retail WoW today.

13:24 THANK YOU!!! I've been saying since Blitz was announced that if it becomes rated, it's just gonna fabricate an already small player base even more and that the reward system needs a revamp before you add another bracket (reward=incentive and there was already too much reward overlap between rated brackets). Playing with friends is one of the main attractions of WoW and sabotaging arenas and 10v10 RBGs even more by adding another solo bracket was a mistake.

If content/difficulty doesn't pull it's weight then it should be removed. That is basic business. Mythic raid immo first on chopping block alongside with all the 'world first' crap

I did delves maybe 4(max) times and i never played it again

Based

I just wish to enjoy classic, but I cannot. Is cant stand it anymore, I demolish my hability to play classic, the moment I play likle 10 years in private servers,

Delve T8 at almost 60% is pretty good. The chart definitely begs the question of "What's the point?" for delves higher than 8 though. I can easily do a T11, but I only did it once to unlock Zekvir. Players need an incentive that is justifiably rewarding compared to the difficulty. I haven't done Mythic+ or raiding since Shadowlands, but the same concept applies. Unfortunately, adding more people to the mix adds more uncontrollable variables for the individual player which increases difficulty in already difficult content. Blizzard's biggest problem is that the risk is too high and the reward is too low.

I just play WoW For chilling, and to be with friends doing something. Ihat all.

Im concidered "hardcore" but im all up for more casual stuff and blizz doing more for them.But holy shit if these casuals cant get 15 renown then idk what else they can do for these people.I im 25 on every renown and i never farmed it,i literly played the game and got it passively.And these bellular sources are beyond crap,impssible tust only 10% did anniversary raid even on lfr

oh and i stopped reading when you mentioned bellular. no thanks

To mythic dungeons stuff i think most dungeons just arent fun with all the mechanics they have, like every pack has something to watch out for and they keep on adding shit dungeons that aren't fun or quick. If u just wanna fill your vault you are gonna go for maybe Dawnbreaker and that dungeon is still hard, i can see why people don't want to touch that stuff. Looking at season 2 dungeon rotation it's only gonna get worse with Theater of Pain and Mechagon going in. The hc brewery has some of the most obnoxious mobs i've ever seen that spam stun and slow you and there is this dungeon with darkness mechanic that will take away your will to live.

Where is the place where you can find those stats?

I get they need to change the gameplay, that’s important for sure, but what WoW needs is hype.

Why would I play arena now that I'm full gear? Me and my friends only play World PvP now that we have full gear.

Screw renown!

Don't trust Bellular.

You do know that it's not hard to develop harder difficulties once you already made easy difficulties?

nah. the visibility high end content brings for the game is simply invaluable. If they drop mythic raids and MDI then they can just shut down the servers. Casual players are fine but they rarely have no good input for how to operate the game really. If you love retail but participation numbers are low then perhaps it should tell you that the majority of the players don't care about trivial boring content?

just a thought: as far as i've seen, the pvp numbers are from rated activities. i 'd compare that to M+ and mythic raiding. the most pvp interested 'casuals' don't touch this content. i'd be considered a pvp 'casual' too just because i only engage in big random BGs - but this i can do 24/7 (not all the time ;-) of course - but there have been times when i spent the whole weekend playing classic ashran 24/7 and i LOVED it. well, the original ashran has been removed... now there is no 24/7 pvp BG anymore. also my options to participate in big random BGs are limitted because i didn't buy TWW (not interested in the gearing treadmill with 100 different currencies and every season you start from scratch - so F* it). this makes me a -1 pvper although i would love to play this content.

45% participation for M+ is huge.