Trying to speak the minority language Meänkieli on the Sweden Finland border
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ต.ค. 2024
- Meänkieli or Torney valley Finnish is a minority language in Sweden. I met up with Adam from the reggae band The Meänland, singing in this language, on the border between Sweden and Finland in Haparanda Tornio, to talk about the language and me trying to speak Meänkieli.
The Meänland: / @themeanland2744
The full video from the visit: • Swimming in Ice in the...
My channel is packed with Swedish tutorials and language challenges where you can learn everything from nouns and verbs to grammar and special Swedish words. I also talk about places in Sweden and where you as a tourist can visit. I have made youtube videos for over 10 years. You can also find videos about Norse Mythology, my deep-talk series Good Talk (which now has its own channel) and other info about Sweden and Swedish culture.
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Intro and outro graphics by Oliver Holmgren & Erica Svejderud.
Music is used with permission from Epidemic Sound.
#meänkieli #Tornio #minoritylanguage
Cheers
-Martin in Sweden
Little historic trivia: Finland was a part of the Swedish kingdom for a longer time (c. 600y) that Skåne has been so far :)
Little historic trivia: most of Northern-Sweden was Finnic until the middle-ages
@@finnicpatriot6399 that’s true and still have some impact to this day. Especially in places like haparanda.
Finns did not come from Mongolia. Finnic tribes came propably from south-western Ural mountains thousands of years a ago. I know that many Swedes and Finns have almost no knowledge of Finnish history or have many misunderstandings. Its becouse of bad or outdated teachings.
Finnish language has come from the East. Finns as a tribe more or less. In genetics Finnish women are more Western and men are more Eastern.
In genetics, Finns might have some same genes as the Native Americans or Inuit. That's because of their ancestor are partially same as the those people who left Asia and went to America. That's why some Finns do have around 1-2% same genetics as those tribes in America. Finnish language has come from the East/Middle Asia, where all the agglutinative languages originate from. In genetics, Finns are more European than Asian. Finns have lived in area of Finland before Finnic languages came along. Not basically Finns, but the main part of Finnish ancestry. Those who lived in kind of an isolation and immigrants coming mainly from the East and finally bringing the language too.
Sources in Finnish:
dynamic.hs.fi/2018/dna/
puheenvuoro.uusisuomi.fi/jaska/175773-suomessa-puhuttiin-monia-kielia-ennen-suomea/
yle.fi/uutiset/3-11067172
Leo Partanen Ok, but thats debatable.
Didn't Sweden call us Mongolians to make us "sub-humans" or them aryans.
@@wenelol no that's a 4chan meme and swedes didn't do that it was the nazis against russians/slavs
@ A
Meänkieli is easy to understand if you're Finnish
How much does it differ in your opinion if you listen to a "professional speaker of meänkieli" like on meänraatio on P4 Norrbotten for example?
In my generation the language gets more and more faded away due to Swedish cultural Influence over the area. So I wouldnt have Them as a reference to base an opinion on meänkieli.
Hauskaa päivän jatkoa!
@@anul6801 I think it has been influenced by Swedish by a lot, Lots of Swedish words for example. However, i think it's still as easy for me to understand as a Finnish dialect would be.
@@anul6801 Well in Sweden Meänkieli has a "language" status but in Finland Meänkieli is just a dialect of Finnish language which spoken in Northern Sweden. Everyone in Finland can understand it. Sometimes they mix some old Finnish words which we do not use anymore and then there is also many Swedish words. But because in Finland everyone have to learn some Swedish at school, thats why Finns can understand also almost every single Swedish loan words. The dialect in Finnish site of the border is almost the same but without those Swedish loan words.
When Finland was once part of Russian empire there was hard border between Sweden and Finland so Finnish speakers in both side the river could not connect so easy in that time. Thats one reason how Meänkieli separated from Finnish language.
@@JohannesNikitin91 Thank you for a good explanation! Ive heard there is a small amount of Swedish loanwords that has traveled across the border to the Finnish part of the valley aswell. Ive heard Glass and towel for example. But even from old there is Swedish loanwords in finnish that sounds a bit like meänkieli (to me as a non speaker) so it can be hard to differ. Have a nice day!
I just want to clear out that Finnish has no connection to Asia or mongolia. The language is from Europe, from the west side of Siberia.
However, Finnish and it's offshoots (Meänkieli, Kven, Karelian) actually retain a lot of stuff from older Germanic languages, such as Old Swedish, Old Norse, Proto-Germanic, Old Low Saxon etc. This is because Finnish has been right on the border of the "germanic world" for over 3000 years, and the language itself kind of acts like a "linguistic freezer" -in other words, words don't really change after entering the Finnish language. For example the Finnish word for "King" is "Kuningas", and it comes from the proto-germanic word "Kuningaz". So Finnish has preserved the original form of the same word that's evolved into "Kung" in Swedish, "Koning" in Dutch and so on. A lot of the similarities have been lost because the Germanic languages have kept evolving, where as in Finnish the vocabulary has stayed in the form it was loaned in.
Wardeni I almost wonder if the Uralic languages and Indo European languages share the same ancestor from long long long ago... there are so many very old Germanic and even some Iranian words in Finnish for example. Either the Finns were in Finland for so long they just conserved these words, or it is just vocabulary they both have in common...
@@Moneyaddthenmultiply Well, Finnish does even contain proto-indo-european words. I've heard linguists theorise that Finnish may share a common origin with the indo-european languages. There are also theories that the Finns may have been a group of early germanic people who gradually lost their original language but kept parts of the vocabulary. And a third theory that indoeuropean speakers came into contact with finno-ugric speakers in the stone ages, and creolisation created both the germanic languages and the finnic languages. But it's hard to find proof for any of that, given all of that predates written history
@@wardeni9603 Ok, let's take another easier perspective, what race are Fins? Pale skin Blond or Orange Hair and Blue or Green eyes. Same with Germanic/Slavic Countries. So Germanic Slavic and Uralic people must have common ancestors who migrated north. The culture differences must be that, Slavic tribes migrated and explored by lands and made Farmlands and drunk a lot of vodka, Germanic tribes usually migrated and explored a ton by sea, and also liked to raid other nations for resources and were warmongers. Uralic people liked togetherness and family and didn't migrate or explore a lot unless they had to. The 3 Nordic families lol.
@@soremuscle9911 well, yeah. About a 80% mtDNA similarity with all germanic peoples for example. The language is just a bit weird
@@wardeni9603 I think we all spoke Uralic at some point. The reason Germanic is different is maybe because of other nations influences. Because in history Germanic people came into contact with a lot of other nations by either raiding migrating or exploring. Slavic people's language changed because of other nations influences while they were migrating for new farmlands. So it's just maybe that our average 20% dna is from other nations we came into contact plus some language adoptions.
mie praataan meänkieltä
i speak meänkieli
Is meänkieli your native language just curious?
@@creeperFIN123 no
Jaajaa katto vain täällähän puhhu jotkin meänkieltä kylä son harvinaista
Jag pratar Svenska och Finska och jag forstar Meänkieli
" I speak skånska not swedish" 😜
Interesting. Thank you ❤️
I bet "Kuka, mitä saunassa veteli ja ketä, mitä, häh!" is the same in Finnish and Mäenkieli.
The Meänland is easily the best band ever!
You happened to interview a linguist, Martin! 😃👍🏼
Did not seem like it. ._.
Letter H did not dissapear from finnish language. It was not there from the beginning. H came from germanic loan words. Many of thouse loan words changed letter H to K.
We Finns understand Meänkieli as well as you Swedes understand Finlandsvenska. If you are a Swede, you can test how well you can understand it.
Sometimes Finlandsvenska might include Finnish words. I have even heard pretty much all the nouns (substantivs) to be in Finnish, but that's just a really loose way to talk. As a Swede, that might be quite impossible to understand, unless you know Finnish.
What are you talking about? I'm from Uppsala-Stockolm and usually understand Findlandsvenska perfectly. Don't think I've ever heard any Finnish words in it (only a strong finnish melody and accent).
@@herrbonk3635 It has some linguistic differences to Swedish:
sv.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finlandssvenska sv.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finlandism
And the loose way to talk it is something you can sometimes hear passing by. It has a lot of English words too. I believe swearing is mostly Finnish or English and "vittu" and "fucking" are commonly used. I believe no Finnish-Swedish person would use Finnish words when talking to Swedish person.
Unfortunately I couldn't find more, but I've definately heard similar stuff too. I cannot remember clearly, but what I heard once at Clas Ohlson went something like this: "Det är paksu, men liia pitkä." www.menaiset.fi/artikkeli/ihmiset-ja-ilmiot/olennaiset/ganska-perus-luulitko-osaavasi-suomenruotsia-nama-hupaisat
@@leopartanen9431 The linguistic differences are minor, smaller than between Swedish dialects. As I said, I understand it almost perfectly, better than some types of Skånska or Norrländska.
But sure, I guess Finlandsvanska is a dying language. It's obvious that young Finns have decided to leave Scandinavia and embrace american english instead.
@@herrbonk3635 Det är jättekiva 🤗 www.google.com/amp/s/www.thelocal.se/20180530/members-forum-why-do-swedes-pepper-their-swedish-with-unusual-english-words/amp också ganska perus Sverige
@@herrbonk3635 Okey, sorry for that one, but my original point was that Finns understand Meänkieli as much as Swedes understand Finlandsvenska.
Although Meänkieli is counted as a language, it sounds Finnish with a few different, but very understandable words.
I think what this person is referring to is that Finnish is a part of Finno Ugric language group that also includes languages of indigenous people of north and Central Russia (such Mordvins, udmurts, khanty and mansi and some of these people now do look a bit Mongolian, but that probably because of Mongolian empire ruling vast territories in Eurasia for centuries)
Never heard of meän kieli but I didn't hear anything specially difficult. In Helsinki we say "biili" for car, "viinipruuvi" (wine tasting).. old Helsinki dialect has a lot more swedish in it. Pretty cool "language"or dialect anyway.
Looooooove that there's an IKEA on the left
:)
Mie piän ette meänkieli oon tänäpänä oma kieli, vaikka suomalaiset voiva ymmärtää sitä paljo, toisin päin sole niin helppoa ko suomalaiset häyvä oppia ruottia koulussa niin suomalaiset voiva ymmärtää sanoja niin ko ”pruuvata” tai ”pruukata”
Suomen murteissa on monesti myös suuri määrä ruotsalaisperäisiä sanoja: pruukata/ruukata, praatata/raatata, peti, kahveli, hantuuki, nestuuki, hantaaki, meinata, huilata jne.
Näin tyhmänä helsinkiläisenä jos en jo ennestään tuntisi teitä meänkieli larppaajia niin kirjottamasi vaikuttaisi ihan tyypilliseltä suomalaiselta dialektilta jostain huitsin nevadasta.
As a dumb Helsinkian if I wasn't already familiar with you meänkieli larpers then what you wrote would just seem like a typical Finnish dialect from some middle of nowhere place.
It's cool that you like your dialect and want to preserve it but it's still just a dialect if we're being realistic.
@@ppouta1216 Tuo kirjoittaja on yks kielistä kiinnostunut äijä Turusta. Hän ei ole torniolaaksolainen
A 12:42 mins long video about the language Meänkieli, without hearing it spoken at all??????
👍🏾very cool
I know he's been exposed to both Swedish and English since early childhood but I for some reason still feel surprised by Adams ability to pronounce Sh unlike Sofia from Oulu who appeared in an ethnic origins of beauty video
The kh sound is typical for Swiss German and apparently it comes from early German before the reform :)
Yup. I believe the "kh" sound didn't exist in Finnish originally, and neither did "sk", these were pronunciation changes introduced into Finnish due to Germanic influence
@@wardeni9603 The old spoken Finnish never had more than one consonant sound in a row. These things started to be introduced by Mikael Agricola, the priest that designed a writning system for Finnish in the mid 1500s. (Based on Swedish and therefore including å,ä,ö.) But it was the loan words that made consonant clusters more common, at least in west-finnish dialects.
thx,more video with finnish people pls =))))
When they open the border again ;)
@@TheSwedishLad okay) I would like to know how many Finns live in Sweden? I am from Ukraine but very interested in Scandinavian countries and their languages) I have lived in Finland for almost a year and learned a little their language, I want to learn Swedish as well, then Norwegian and Danish)
@@teemuanttinen1962
They are not real Finns. They are Swedes but have spoken Finnish due to the proximity to the border. It is possible that some have Finnish origins as well as some have Swedish on the Finnish side of the border.
In addition, Finland was a province in Sweden (not a colony) until 1809 when it was conquered by Russia.
@@kristerforsman2448 What do you mean by saying "real Finns"??? Tornevalley was a one region with same dialect until 1809. Tornedalians in both side are same thing genetically.
Many families and relatives got segregated back then
Correct. Its just a river in between. In the far North of Sweden we call Them ignorant southerners or "sörlänningar"this region has been populated by finns/kvens whatever since the 700's atleast... I Would say 95 perception of the People in Tornedalen are more finnish Than Swedes on DNA tests.
The band is GREAT you should play in Skärblacka.
old German sounded like a mix of Nordic and Finnish. It's sad, Germany tried to modernize its language to match the roman languages like in Hoch-Duetsch the R was made to sound more liken the French "GHR" These kind of changes destroyed uniqueness of Languages.
The Low German language still spoken in parts of northern Germany sound a bit like Scandinavian though. Mainly because they share the same roots, but also beacuse Sweden had severe interaction with Low Germans and Holland via the Hansa League in the middle ages. Many merchants and craftsmen from Lübeck and other towns settled in Sweden (mostly in Stockholm, but also in Kalmar and elsewhere). This changed or complemented quite a few words and also slowly affected how Swedes spoke.
@@herrbonk3635 Yeah saying Finnish was an overechaduration. I know everything you said above, I live in lübeck, based on that I said what I said. It also wasn't only Hansa League, Germans and Scandinavians genetically back track to the same people.
@@soremuscle9911 Yes, exactly, the Germanic tribes around the Baltic Sea coasts. The Finnish are our brothers but basically another people, although we have had contact (and sex) with them since long before the Viking age. So many of us are a mix today, in both countries.
Ancient proto-Germanic sounds very Baltic and Slavic with the nasal vowels, but a strange (Uralic???) influence.
@@Moneyaddthenmultiply Proto-Slavic sounded nothing like Proto-Germanic. Maybe now it sounds more like Modern-Slavic. In Proto-Slavic they had a less sounding "R" like the Greeks and more "Ch" and "O" they also uniquely didn't use "A" as much. Later it was changed. They also had the Greek soft "G" sound and they used it a lot. As much as i know in history Slavic is a mix of People from Balkan up to Polish Area that Migrated West North and East North. Then they got Influenced by Uralic Mongolian and Turkic tribes. Especially in the East North and in the West North by Germanic and Italian Tribes. That means that the most Pure Slavic People must live in between. So that means West Ukraine Whole Belarus and East Poland.
Suinkaan means "not at all"
Quite many finnish words are same as hunnic language. Even closer than hungarian. There is probably some connection. Attila even sounds typical finnish last name. Name russia comes from rus people from sweden. We in finland call sweden ruotsi but russia is venäjä which probably comes from viena area. People and languages have tendency to get mixed with neighbors.
Meänkieli is a language
I don't understand the point of trying to classify Meänkieli as a separate language from Finnish. It's like saying that Scots is a separate language from English--you could say that it is a separate language, but there is no linguistic conflict and there is no mystery as to its origins. Just speak your dialect and use standard Finnish like all the other Finnish dialect speakers.
in haaparanta we dont speak meänkieli
its pretty dead there, like 5% or close to that
in pajala 71% speak it
Kuulin kyllä ihan selvää meänkieltä pari vuotta sitten Haaparannan torilla, kun työmiehet istuivat kahvilla grillin vieressä! :D
@@tainahollo8567 kyllä jotkut puhuvat meänkieltä, mutta se on ensimmäiseen vain suomea
@@mahtavapaska3570 Siksi olikin ilo kuulla oikein hersyvää meänkieltä! :)
Gyönyörű nyelv és nem nehéz
Meänkieli is a language!!!! Meänkili son kieli, sole murre
sole kieli son murre
No, nämähän ovat usein pitkälti poliittisia kysymyksiä; eron tekee valtakunnan raja, ei kielioppi.