@CMatt420 I would love a punisher meta series where he goes after the worst villains and characters of across fiction I would love to see punisher go after serial killers, and B-Rank, C-Rank, D-Rank Marvel Supervillains Would be a nice change of pace
I think the Netflix adaptation on both Daredevil and Punisher shows did him great justice. I like how they showed him getting beat up because at the end of the day, he's still human
The Daredevil show in general was great at showing battle damage. It's part of why that first hallway fight scene was so amazing. I'm sure Matt spends most of his time on-screen recovering from getting his ass kicked or half-dead.
I mostly enjoyed his portrayal of Frank. I didn't care for the emotional portrayal, but that's on me. I've always seen Frank as a more taciturn person.
@@Logan7281X1. The show made him more realistic meaning that after such a tragic and devastating event, of course he’s gonna be emotional about his family, suffer ptsd over their deaths, and be depressed and self-loathing. 2. People theorized that the end of season 2 was eluding to a more comic book accurate Punisher with less emotion and more dedicating to the Punisher identity, so had the show continued you probably would’ve gotten the Frank that you wanted.
@Logan7281X I think the emotional part sets him far away from his comic portrayal, but balances out by making him endearing enough to root for. I feel like the Punisher could've ended at season one and it would've been the closest thing to a happy ending Frank Castle would ever see. Or deserve, in some cases.
@@Beeyo176I think we needed a third and final season of Punisher to really cement “he is the punisher we know”. I mean regardless Bernthal is amazing in the role.
What makes the punisher great apart from his more grounded qualities is that we all can understand that the justice system is deeply flawed and is at time inadequate
Thomas Jane had it nailed "In certain extreme situations, the law is inadequate. In order to shame its inadequacy, it is necessary to act outside the law. To pursue... natural justice. This is not vengeance. Revenge is not a valid motive, it's an emotional response. No, not vengeance. Punishment.
@@DoxxBoxx Yes and no. Some writers have written Castle as a straight villain. In a Spider-Man comic (early 80s), he tried to kill civilians for things like littering, running a red light and domestic abuse. Due to his popularity, a few years later that was written off as him having been drugged.
Hobbes was an authoritarian who believed humans can't have civil rights so they should submit to an absolute monarch whose own rights and freedoms are absolute and who wields violence without restraint. Yeah... sounds a lot like the Punisher to be honest. 😂 No wonder Captain America hates him. Edit: I also love The Slavers. The Slavers also makes this point very clearly that society can't function with The Punisher in it and people shouldn't seek out The Punisher.
@@MrBazBake Even Castle himself doesn't want to exist ironically. He's a lot of things, dumb isn't one. He freaking has said this more than once, his very symbol means society is @#$%!!ed.
Seriously, how is it evil to kill mass murderers? If the Joker or Darkseid were real people, would we think it unkind to execute him so they don’t break out of Arkham/dimension they’re banished too so they can’t hurt anyone else? Like, why am I supposed to think it’s morally ambiguous to end the life of someone who eats puppies and ties women to train tracks for fun?
Because some people believe that no matter who a human life matters, there's also different culture, mental illness. So many things b People bring up because they think it's a mercy to spare those people.
Some people are just THAT stupid, believe me, even if Joker was real there would be idiots saying he's just misunderstood, not evil. In the comics it's worse because Bruce's refusal to put down the clown ALWAYS leads to future victims, he's suppose to be a genius but can't see that.
@@theoutlawking9123 Batman / Bruce Wayne is a traumatized human being. Seeing his parents murdered in front of him BROKE HIM. He's quite literally mentally ill. Also, he's emotionally stuck, in some ways, at the age of 8. Underneath all of the muscles, education, training, suit and gadgets, he is still that scared little boy. Who reacted like a scared little boy, swore off death-dealing as always evil and promised to himself - Never Again. That's why he CAN'T finish the job of putting down that mad dog Joker. He is effectively PSYCHOLOGICALLY INCAPABLE of it. His foundational trauma that turned him from Bruce Wayne into Batman cannot allow it, because killing is ALWAYS WRONG to him, no matter the motive.
@@JordanMendesPrestesthey basically let each other keep living for no reason, one is right and one is murderously wrong, with 2 extremes never victorious they keep staying in a never ending cycle of trauma with no end that costs peoples lives ,it doesn't stop and its both of they're fault because they know they play off of each other ,feminine emotionalism /toxicity at it's peak
I ran a comic book summer camp last week and I went over how popular the Punisher was and is to this day. I didn’t cover these comics for obvious reasons, but I covered when he saved Spider-Man in Civil War. Yes, he is extreme, but if there is a comic book character who can see good in someone, it has to be Punisher.
punisher doesnt prioritize in his quest, outside of his rogues gallery and creeps, he prioritizes low level crooks over serial killers like Zodiac or villains in the Marvel universe that keep getting away (who he could easily and deservingly put down)
The Punisher is logical. He has shirked the concept of morality, as much as it appears differently, and he lives what Camus called the absurd hero's life. He values integrity over morality and clearly is well written to stick to that integrity. He knows he is broken, what he can give to the world isn't peace. He knows others can do better than himself, again logical and not lunatic or insane. So the Cap's, the Spider Men of the world (or as he knows them, WW2 Veteran and a heroic local kid willing to sacrifice his life for others. Good guys.) It's why in the same books he cold blooded murders a few guys member? :) Then doesn't raise his hand. While thats not Ennis's take on the character (actually getting closer to that insane frankencastle moments) they still go heavy on this concept, its not about being "good" Its having integrity. Spiderman/Cap are people that actively help his crusade. Harming them, letting them be harmed, goes against the mission. Its not anything good or bad that drives him to help, its not a morality issue. Its functional.
Comic book summer camp? Where da hell was that when I was a kid 😂 give those kids some pencils and markers and let them draw some of these characters and appreciate the Artist too! 💀👌
The smarter you become about the world, the more you realize that The Punisher is truly the hero our world needs. Someone to clear out all the corrupt, satanic, soul less, psychopaths in high places.. like politicians, ceos, elite bankers etc. The Punisher is the only one capable. His logic is precise and he shows no fn mercy.
@@chakatBombshell Though I find it creepy one lumps Marx and Hobbes together when examining the Punisher. Marx would be horrified by the implication that his work is being compared to a political realist such as Hobbes, since what that entails is a tyrant with a who has no limits to his power. That is the path the Punisher is taking, and with that power, he cannot be stopped.
And the wiser you become about the world, the more you realize that in real life, overly violent and brutal solutions often end up causing more issues in the long run than they solve
@@Richard-jj9bj I'd say that violence solves more disputes in the real world, as it does lead to policy change. One example is how Operation Bread Basket in 1968 erupted into a riot, that forced the Johnson administration to administer better housing and job opportunities for working-class black folk. The problem with the Punisher, is that he's a liberal vigilante, who uses violence to only combat crime at it's disease, but not the root of it. And that is poverty, which can't be solved with a bullet most of the time.
Punisher's real power is that he (as far as I know), has never accidentally hit or killed an innocent, never targets the wrong person, never causes excessive collateral damage. That's basically HIS "superpower". If he took just one innocent life, DareDevil or SpiderMan or IronMan could lecture him about how he's flawed (they tend to do that anyway, just w/o real justification except "killing bad"). But Punisher would just throw back in their smug faces that the Marvel heroes have a Batman/Joker relation with their villains where their villains may kill, they get beat up and thrown in jail, they inevitably escape and kill again.
Ironman and a good portion of the Marvel heroes don’t have a Batman/Joker relation with their villains and don’t throw them in jail, they straight up kill them.
Random but does anyone remember that incredible punisher game that came out in 2004??? I’d love a remake. I remember playing that game over and over for an entire summer
On the PS2, I still play it at least weekly still. It captured the Punisher perfectly, and Thomas Jane’s voiceover is magnificent. NOT a game that could be made these days unfortunately.
I'm honestly hoping that the Punisher's involvement in Daredevil Born Again will drive Marvel to publish new Punisher stories while reprinting old ones. There's no way that Marvel is done with Frank, knowing that they're still releasing omnibuses of The Punisher.
Those Bastards, they don't wanna write new stories with Frank, unless it's Ennis' Max Universe but they're still making money off him reprinting his old runs: from The entire MAX series to Rick Remember's Run. In fact a new printing of Remember's run is out next week.
@@malafakka8530 true, though when the chance of recidivism is about as likely as the sun going up. Its usually implied. though maiming and lobotomies are up in the air if your really want them to stay breathing.
@@gorillawhale1046 right, because the Nazis weren't antagonistic toward the USSR, which was ideologically aligned with Marx's ideas and put them into practice, at all.
My dad who passed away this year, was what he thought to be an antique collector. He would fill our house with all kinda of junk to my mothers frustration but every now and then as a kid, I would get some really cool gifts. One day he came home with a giant box of just punisher comics. They were the only comics I ever read and to this day the punisher is the only comic book character I’ve ever cared about. For a year we also had a space invaders arcade cabinet I our living room 😂 my dad was hilarious. My mom would rage at him but he did make money off a lot of the things he got. Thanks for the memories old man!
Punisher is an archetype I want to play in a ttrpg. The uncompromising paladin of justice, that sees themselves as the necessary balancing force to keep the world from squashing the weak and the innocent. That his methods are harsh and brutal, but he sees them as absolutely necessary. That eventually he too will be judged, but by then he's paved a road of good intentions behind him. Um... suggestions... how about Magneto or Xavier, even Apocalypse? They have flipped their scripts quite a few times, but I want to see if the needle kept pointing to their moral North the whole time. I'd love to know more about Gambit, but that's just because I don't know a lot of him, just that he's undeniably cool.
@cidlunius1076 the type of people Id love to see Punisher go after are: Jeri Hogarth from Jessica Jones Bonnie Winterbottom from How to Get Away with Murder Frank from How To Get Away With Murder Hannibal Lecter from Silence of The Lambs John Doe from Se7en Mystique from X-Men Joker Harley Quinn Alex DeLarge from A Clockwork Orange Little Nina from The Boys Michael Corleone from The Godfather Zodiac Killer Michael Fassbender from The Killer Madds Mikkleston Hannibal Lector Jack The Ripper Cletus Kassidy from Spider-Man comics Norman Osborn from Insomniac Spider-Man Walter White from Breaking Bad Todd Alquist from Breaking Bad Uncle Jack from Breaking Bad Patrick Bateman from American Psycho Tony Soprano from The Sopranos Thomas Shelby from Peaky Blinders Nucky Thompson from Boardwalk Empire Jules Winnfield from Pulp Fiction Chef Slowik from The Menu Barry Berkman from Barry Fuches from Barry Neagan from The Walking Dead Anton Chigurh from No Country for Old Men The Two people from Funny Games (1997) Tom Ripley from The Talented Me.Ripley Charles Manaon Moriarity from Sherlock Holmes Oswald Cobblepot from Gotham Carmine Falcone from Gotham The Flamingo from Gotham Edward Nigma from Gotham Salvatore Maroni from Gotham (batista lol) Fish Mooney from Gotham (pre power up) Jerome Valaska from Gotham Victor Zssaz from Gotham/Batman Arkham Kingpin Riddler Bullseye Calypso From Spider-Man
That’s certainly a part of it, but more than that he’s a personification of war itself - having rejected traditional concepts of meaning and purpose in life that most people just accept as a given, he takes it upon himself to fight a conflict that never ends because nothing else seems possible to him anymore: trying to bring Frank Castle back into civilian life would be like trying to repurpose a sword to make fabric in a cloth factory - it’s just not a realistic prospect.
Perfect. Hes offering his inmortal soul and eternity in hell to punish sons of bitches on earth. Show me spidermen or daredevilmen that go that fae for their “saved”
@@yrnhhngr there's a backstory vietnam thing where he makes a sort of a deal with devil kind of a thing that's then losing the family. they've reworked the whole vietnam thing by now a bunch of times too though, the current punisher is a bit too morally clean cut to be interesting, the old one was a dude ready to berzerk and losing the family did that and jumped through way more hoops in his mind about why what he was doing was correct(and that works a lot better when the people killed are just lower level criminals with families of their own or even just people who happen to work for a criminal, like in the older stuff it's way more apparent that there were collateral damage and people who didn't arguably morally deserve to die)
Of course the punisher has a point, the problem is are we going to follow his point to it’s ultimate conclusion and are we ok with the fallout of his philosophy, sometimes I wonder if heroism is doing right or being right, the battle between daredevil and punisher is the battle of wills we go through morally
Finaly someone who actually got it. Their argument is about what matters more, being morally righr or doinf whats righr? The answer is both are correct, and both need each other. No one wants a world of punisher cops. No one wants a world of social worker cops. My opinion now: punisher is the greates hero cause hes the one who has to sacrifice his soul for doing whats righr even kniwjng its now ideally righr. He leaves the ideals for the daredevils and chooses to burn jn hell for the righr rhibg.
@@mirceazaharia2094 Spider-Man I could kinda understand because canonically, he is a teenager or very young adult (early 20s). But for Batman who is a fully-grown man and probably has seen a lot of terrible crimes even before his parents were murdered, he should know that some criminals are well-beyond saving. And yet he insists that they somehow have the right to life when they clearly don’t see the same for innocent civilians.
The Punisher may have a point, but it doesn’t mean he’s completely right. I absolutely love this character, but not because I agree with his philosophy. I just find him so intriguing.
The Punisher is an Avatar for mankind's thirst for vengeance and Daredevil is the Avatar for Justice. You shouldn't want to be the Punisher, he doesn't want anyone to be like him, he's told people that is they're looking for a role model, you need to look at Captain America.
@@johnnyblaze6910 It's basically the question of rehabilitation. Are people worth saving or not. Anytime anyone talks about good MCU writing I point them to Netflix DareDevil when he talks to Frank on the rooftop. It's just such a great scene and so well written. It makes you think.
The Punisher isn't even a villain he's just a realistic vigilante. Heck Frank Castle doesn't even look down on a lot of heroes, he knows the world needs the actual sources of good and hope and actually respects them. Frank Castle doesn't go around killing every criminal as well he'll scare lesser criminals but will only kill one's who actually do the really horrible stuff. My favorite thing about Frank Castle is he is horrified by anyone looking up to him because he knows what he does is bad.
I don’t think the Rosenberg stories is a good example of Frank Castle. It’s essentially, in Rosenberg eyes, bigger gun bigger criminal. That series came out during a time when Marvel didn’t really know what to do with The Punisher and saw him as problematic. And I don’t think Rosenberg ever understood the character the way Ennis and Fraction did.
It's a damn shame Marvel never brings up that the Punisher is probably the only Italian superhero in Marvel outside of Strongguy. Because there's A LOT of rage among Italians over generations of being terrorized by fascists, communists and mafiosi and a general distrust of authority in general.
It's easy for comic writers to kill villians who are nobodies. If every superhero was the Punisher, no comic would run over a year. You can't apply real world logic to every superhero and have a 90 year print run. There are fan-favorite villians that readers want to see again.
I love this new format. How you're bringing in philosophy and explaining it is really both educational and interesting. I hope you do more pieces like this
Netflixs Punisher/Daredevil was actually pretty damn good and probably my fav Marvel tv shows. But we need a TRULY HIGH BUDGET PUNISHER MOVIE! Dark and explosive like the new Batman. With Bernthal, of course!
Philosophical references often miss the point completely. Hobbes would hate the idea of the Punisher; his idea of social contract is people surrendering their right to enact violence to the state, to avoid war of everyone against everyone. Also, bringing up fighting against colonial oppression in regard to Punisher: War Machine, where American citizen pushes his values on other nations, is out of the left field
@@DimitriX-zq1dr I said much the same thing in a comment and for some Reason, mine has been deleted. I think Rob is getting rid of material critical of his video here….
He is indeed, every time I criticise his idea of what Nihilism is, he deleted the comment. Man can’t even pronounce Foucault properly and thinks he’s a sage....
I went looking through the comments hoping to see someone point this out but too many people don't realize how much of the philosophical analysis is...questionable, at best. Kierkegaard was talking about things beyond our reasoning (for him specifically faith) so using his concept of the "leap of faith" alongside utilitarianism is off the mark. You mention Hobbes would hate the Punisher, I doubt Locke would like him any better. And the mention of Fanon and then using the example of the American colonists versus the British monarchy? Wow. Way off the mark with what Fanon was talking about. There is a good conversation to be had about the philosophy of the Punisher, but this ain't it.
I love the philosophical approach you’re sharing since I wasn’t expecting to hear Frantz Fanon about the punisher but it’s sensible perspective that I value; much love, I thank you.
Not only is the Punisher correct, we need actual Punishers irl these days. Government has failed, the justice system is a joke and at this point there needs to be Punisher in every state of this country.
It's funny that you view Castle through Foucault's lens, when if Foucault is viewed through Castle's lens... well, ol' Frank wasn't fond of those who, uh, did inappropriate things to children.
Reminds me of the comic frank saves two kids from their pedo parents… they make good points in how killing them would actually worsen rhe kids situation. Frank isnt about saving anyone… frank is about punishing
9:58 All I remember from this run was this was where they straight up just traced Jon Bernthal's face into the comic. Shame, it looks like a cool idea.
You can word it like that to make it fit the Punisher, but Soren Kierkegaard was a 19th-century philosopher who created the concept of a leap of faith, which refers to having trust in something despite its lack of reasoning, logic, and rationality. "Making a leap" into a "new moral code" is a bit of a stretch. It's more like his environment shaping him. If you look into any story of PTSD, true story or fictional, the Marine or soldier usually fights against the change, internally at the very least. It's like grieving a death, so the final step is just acceptance. That's not a leap of faith, but maybe the new moral code will push the Marine to many new leaps of faith as he cuts his teeth in his new way of life.
The Punisher is a god of Justice. Not in the DC sense with magic powers, but in the grounded Nietschean sense. He will always be compelling bc he is simultaneously relatable and exceptional.
One of my favorite Characters. What makes him so dangerous is that there are actual Military veterans who has the same skills as Castle. One tragic event set him off.
Great video! I loved how you underpinned it with philosophical concepts of morality , for me this is where much of the depth in punisher books can be found
@@extremepop324Because dumbasses are trying to make the Punisher a culture war issue, because cops and the military fucking love the Punisher for some reason
Frank does have a point from time to time. I do get a chuckle out of the fact he debuted as a Spider-Man villain, and if Spidey wasn't so "soft", Frank wouldn't have a career. I like when writers are self aware that Frank does this because that boy ain't right. Not because he thinks he's actually making the world a better place. Newsflash, Castle: You're about as effective as those "soft" heroes. Kingpin is still a thing. Norman Osborn is still a thing. The Owl is still a thing. Basically every big name villain who isn't bulletproof is still out there, Frank.
Thats why its more fun to pull the Ennis books out of the mainline MCU. The Slavers aint coming back, the Black Irish aint coming back, the Russians... ok well they may come back but no one survived that. There's also the "THE END" book where the Punisher literally, literally here, kills the last human beings on earth. So no ones still a thing :)
Frank Castle has said it the best. He is not the good guy. He is a villain, in an Anti-Hero role. I mean the dude is a psychopath. He drops purse snatchers. I mean the dude blasted Peter in the face. Given kids PTSD, let people unalive themselves. He cares about his code over everything, and eliminating the "evil" despite what happens to others. He uses innocents as bait, etc. He is a actually a very complex character. Us debating it shows that.
If Punisher was real i think he would go to Chicago first then LA second. I also think he'd make his way down to Mexico along with some other badasses or maybe even solo. He'd have his work cutout for him but he'd have fun.
The punisher on the Netflix show rather the Daredevil show, the rooftop scene really shows u that Frank is on a mission to eliminate all criminal families and that's why I like the fact that he answers to nobody.
The issue with the Punisher, is that while he might have a philosophy it does seem to be a bit inconsistent and the effectiveness of his methods is called in the question many times. And not just by characters in opposition like Captain America, Daredevil or Spiderman, but by Punisher himself. In the Slavers story, he admits his powerlessness to make things better for the victims or to undo the damage and trauma, he laments how even as he takes care of this group that they will be up and running in no time, and that he won’t be able to find them. In the final storyline of Punisher MAX, Bullseye discovers and makes Castle realize he was never a good father or husband and he planned to abandon Maria and the kids. Punisher has express admiration for heroes like Captain America and War Machine, who are part of the system. At the end of the day I think, above all, Frank is a soldier and he fights because he doesn’t remember how not to. I mean the war that created him was Vietnam, where you could argue the enemy had the same philosophy of doing whatever it was necessary to defend their country from the foreign invaders. And they got the enemy to also fight back with harsh methods, in the end making the war an ever bigger bloodbath long before it was settle, not with a military victory but negotiation. So it could be seen as how the methods of the Punisher do not work, even if is cathartic to see him do such brutal things to people who absolutely deserve it.
The Punisher doesn't wear a disguise, he never tries to be something he is not. Frank Castle is dead, don't expect any mercy from The Punisher. My all time favorite comic book (anti) Hero. 100% rage all the time. P.s. did they drop a bunker buster bomb on a Punisher in chains, and he still walked away. Only to execute a cab driver, who was drinking and driving, while wearing a Punisher tee shirt, saying that kids play in the streets and you drive around loaded? Booooom! Booooom!
Pain is a byproduct of stimuli. Its a consequence for having nerves and tactile interaction. The pain is there to teach a lesson or warn. He teaches through pain because everyone listens to pain. Everyone.
@@Saito232005 In the 1500's, a German lord was brought to a suspected witch to see the work of the Inquisition. He approached the woman who gave him the names of several other witches in her coven. When he asked her if there were any witches in the room, she pointed to the two Inquisitors and said, "Yes, these two danced with demons under the bright moon. I've seen it with my own eyes." The lord turned to the Inquisitors and said, "You tell me whether your methods were effective." The German Inquisition abandoned torture within the year. Anyone who thinks pain is some insight into beauty is the product of a lie the Inquisition revealed 500 years ago. A lie we roll out and indoctrinate people into over and over. A lie that has never worked and never will.
Punisher Max was the definitive Punisher series until Ennis left. Then it immediately became absolute trash. He's the only writer that truly seems to get the character at his core. I hate how the series tried to add a ton of military conspiracy stuff to his backstory. Like most adaptations, despite a perfect actor, it totally missed the point of the Punisher. There's a reason the Max version never even bothered to track down the people responsible for his family for like 40 years; it's not a revenge story and it keeps getting misunderstood as one.
His wife and children were murdered in cold blood through no fault of his or theirs. What man in his position would not have at least wanted to do the same thing? Frank Castle (nee Castiglione) just happened to be ready, willing, and able to do it. The problem with vigilantes, however, is that eventually even they kill innocent people, even if they don't mean to. By now, I am sure he has been retconned into being a Middle East-Afghanistan veteran. If he were still a Vietnam veteran he'd be in his seventies.
Nah... I felt like the correlations in philosophy were extremely thin throughout the video, but you veered off into outright parody by bringing up Marx in the context that you did. As much as I love your content, this was absurdly pretentious.
The Punisher only works because of the way the comic cycle is. In any other stories, comic book supervillains are killed or executed by forces other than the heroes or done in by their own hands. Because comics don't end, neither do they. Batman, the ur example, only continues to exist because writers keep forcing him to exist in the same form that he always has in order to sell comics. The Punisher exists to capitalize on the frustration of comic readers who've grown up and come into some amount of philosophy that the shaky nature of what the industry has caused the writing to become. He isn't so much "right" as he is "different". Other heroes' villains can't die because the writers need them, while The Punisher hunts characters who aren't nearly as grandiose or interesting as supervillains which allows them to die instead. Even then, this continues forever because he sells comic books. In any other story, Frank Castle would have long since died in an interesting fashion.
I think the Netflix adaptation did a terrible job of capturing the character of Frank Castle. Frank is a surgical and stoic individual. He's not a rabid dog. He's calculated in his behaviour. The Netflix show just had a screaming slobbering crazy headcase with a brain injury.
I love this character. I just didnt like it when super heroes or super villains were in the Punisher's "universe." That is why I loved the Garth Ennis stuff.
whole different tone in this video. ur inner child took a backset? flexing that big philosophical brain. havent heard hobbs referenced since good will hunting..applesauce lol
Thank you for this Rob you are the goat the punisher was always thee Badass Anti Hero One Man Army against crime and villainy despite his methods i Always wonder why none of the marvel superheroes put him down yet less he is possessed or killed innocences
punisher doesnt prioritize in his quest prioritized, outside of his rogues gallery and creeps, he prioritizes low level crooks over serial killers like Zodiac or villains in the Marvel universe that keep getting away (who he could easily and deservingly put down)
Sheesh the timing on this video is a little suss. But I do love Punisher comics. The real question is, how do you really know who is guilty? How do you know for sure? When you punish too hastily, a lot of collateral damage will happen to innocents.
Born is also the comic where he executes the woman one of his buddies is raping because helping her would make them trust him less. Don't try to defend Punisher, he stopped being morally grey when Garth Ennis got his hands on him.
"Those who do evil to others, will come to know me well. Frank Castle is dead, call me The Punisher!" - Frank Castle/Punisher
The Punisher said it best in the Daredevil series. "When you hit them, they get back up. When I hit them, they stay down."
@CMatt420 I would love a punisher meta series where he goes after the worst villains and characters of across fiction
I would love to see punisher go after serial killers, and B-Rank, C-Rank, D-Rank Marvel Supervillains
Would be a nice change of pace
@@Seasonal-Shadow_4674 “punisher kills the marvel universe” is the closest thing we got.
Facts
God, I love that scene! Probably Top 10 superhero scenes of all time.
@@Meowblivion he only goes after the heroes and some of the villains, not enough and not a good excuse
I think the Netflix adaptation on both Daredevil and Punisher shows did him great justice. I like how they showed him getting beat up because at the end of the day, he's still human
The Daredevil show in general was great at showing battle damage. It's part of why that first hallway fight scene was so amazing. I'm sure Matt spends most of his time on-screen recovering from getting his ass kicked or half-dead.
I mostly enjoyed his portrayal of Frank.
I didn't care for the emotional portrayal, but that's on me.
I've always seen Frank as a more taciturn person.
@@Logan7281X1. The show made him more realistic meaning that after such a tragic and devastating event, of course he’s gonna be emotional about his family, suffer ptsd over their deaths, and be depressed and self-loathing. 2. People theorized that the end of season 2 was eluding to a more comic book accurate Punisher with less emotion and more dedicating to the Punisher identity, so had the show continued you probably would’ve gotten the Frank that you wanted.
@Logan7281X I think the emotional part sets him far away from his comic portrayal, but balances out by making him endearing enough to root for. I feel like the Punisher could've ended at season one and it would've been the closest thing to a happy ending Frank Castle would ever see. Or deserve, in some cases.
@@Beeyo176I think we needed a third and final season of Punisher to really cement “he is the punisher we know”. I mean regardless Bernthal is amazing in the role.
What makes the punisher great apart from his more grounded qualities is that we all can understand that the justice system is deeply flawed and is at time inadequate
Agreed. Punisher is an extremist, but he has a good intentions and tragic backstory.
Weaponized justice system.
Thomas Jane had it nailed
"In certain extreme situations, the law is inadequate. In order to shame its inadequacy, it is necessary to act outside the law. To pursue... natural justice. This is not vengeance. Revenge is not a valid motive, it's an emotional response. No, not vengeance. Punishment.
Oh so that's who came up with that phrase. Thx for info.
That is still such a boss Punisher line =)
The Punisher.
Indeed.
I don’t give a fuck,the Thomas Jane Punisher is still one of my favorite movies and to me, just as good if not better than John Bernthals
"N-No! No! No! No! No!-"
"-Wait! Wait! Wait! Wait! Wait!"
WAIT! WAIT! WAIT! WAIT!
when they realize every second of life is precious
what a pussified Frank Castle
The Punisher is NOT a villain. He's the textbook definition of an antihero
Castle has been around for awhile, so it has depended on who was writing the story. Hes been pretty villainous at times.
@@derekcash3608i think that's just his nature, if he's placed along normal heroes like captain america he's gonna look a lot worse in comparison
@@DoxxBoxx Yes and no.
Some writers have written Castle as a straight villain. In a Spider-Man comic (early 80s), he tried to kill civilians for things like littering, running a red light and domestic abuse. Due to his popularity, a few years later that was written off as him having been drugged.
I thought he was actually a villain in the beginning
Less an anti-hero and more a murderous lunatic.
"Punisher: The Slavers" is one of my favorite stories. It's brutal, realistic, and it does not have a happy ending.
Hobbes was an authoritarian who believed humans can't have civil rights so they should submit to an absolute monarch whose own rights and freedoms are absolute and who wields violence without restraint.
Yeah... sounds a lot like the Punisher to be honest. 😂 No wonder Captain America hates him.
Edit:
I also love The Slavers. The Slavers also makes this point very clearly that society can't function with The Punisher in it and people shouldn't seek out The Punisher.
@@MrBazBake Even Castle himself doesn't want to exist ironically. He's a lot of things, dumb isn't one. He freaking has said this more than once, his very symbol means society is @#$%!!ed.
@@MrBazBake
Wtf hobbes based?
The whole punisher max was fuckin excellent.
@@darksaintxvi6914bro i have the whole collection. The max series made me love the punisher
Seriously, how is it evil to kill mass murderers? If the Joker or Darkseid were real people, would we think it unkind to execute him so they don’t break out of Arkham/dimension they’re banished too so they can’t hurt anyone else? Like, why am I supposed to think it’s morally ambiguous to end the life of someone who eats puppies and ties women to train tracks for fun?
Because some people believe that no matter who a human life matters, there's also different culture, mental illness. So many things b
People bring up because they think it's a mercy to spare those people.
Because your destroying your best enemies. Gotta keep the best of the worst alive to battle.
Some people are just THAT stupid, believe me, even if Joker was real there would be idiots saying he's just misunderstood, not evil. In the comics it's worse because Bruce's refusal to put down the clown ALWAYS leads to future victims, he's suppose to be a genius but can't see that.
@@theoutlawking9123
Batman / Bruce Wayne is a traumatized human being. Seeing his parents murdered in front of him BROKE HIM.
He's quite literally mentally ill. Also, he's emotionally stuck, in some ways, at the age of 8.
Underneath all of the muscles, education, training, suit and gadgets, he is still that scared little boy.
Who reacted like a scared little boy, swore off death-dealing as always evil and promised to himself - Never Again.
That's why he CAN'T finish the job of putting down that mad dog Joker. He is effectively PSYCHOLOGICALLY INCAPABLE of it.
His foundational trauma that turned him from Bruce Wayne into Batman cannot allow it, because killing is ALWAYS WRONG to him, no matter the motive.
@@mirceazaharia2094 Well, at least we agree that he's just a scared little boy deep down.
Jack Reacher and Frank Castle would be the most effective good cop bad cop duo ever
Also a duo you would not want to piss off!
That is a terrifying combination.
Tango & Cash, but R-rated.
More like "Bad Cop, Worse Cop" 😵
@@machinist7230 Bad cop, worsT cop
The Punisher reminds me of an old saying:
"He who plays with the devils toys, by degrees, comes to wield his sword."
Where is that from?
@@ImJustSaijan Thomas Fuller, a historian from the 1600s and one of the first people to ever make a living purely off of writing.
@@MisterZimbabwe wow thanks, I'm gonna check that out. Thank you very much. Fuller seems like I've heard it before, but I dnt know anything about it.
I like when Frank told Batman that he and The Joker deserve each other.
BASED!!!!!
@@JoaoVictor-rg5ix ON WHAT?!
@@JordanMendesPrestes PS2. But you can find it at Xbox360 or maybe an emulator. Its SUPER worth the hassle.
@@JordanMendesPrestesthey basically let each other keep living for no reason, one is right and one is murderously wrong, with 2 extremes never victorious they keep staying in a never ending cycle of trauma with no end that costs peoples lives ,it doesn't stop and its both of they're fault because they know they play off of each other ,feminine emotionalism /toxicity at it's peak
@@jaha777jaha6 you didn't get the joke with the "based" word
I ran a comic book summer camp last week and I went over how popular the Punisher was and is to this day. I didn’t cover these comics for obvious reasons, but I covered when he saved Spider-Man in Civil War. Yes, he is extreme, but if there is a comic book character who can see good in someone, it has to be Punisher.
punisher doesnt prioritize in his quest, outside of his rogues gallery and creeps, he prioritizes low level crooks over serial killers like Zodiac or villains in the Marvel universe that keep getting away (who he could easily and deservingly put down)
The Punisher is logical. He has shirked the concept of morality, as much as it appears differently, and he lives what Camus called the absurd hero's life. He values integrity over morality and clearly is well written to stick to that integrity.
He knows he is broken, what he can give to the world isn't peace. He knows others can do better than himself, again logical and not lunatic or insane. So the Cap's, the Spider Men of the world (or as he knows them, WW2 Veteran and a heroic local kid willing to sacrifice his life for others. Good guys.)
It's why in the same books he cold blooded murders a few guys member? :) Then doesn't raise his hand. While thats not Ennis's take on the character (actually getting closer to that insane frankencastle moments) they still go heavy on this concept, its not about being "good"
Its having integrity. Spiderman/Cap are people that actively help his crusade. Harming them, letting them be harmed, goes against the mission.
Its not anything good or bad that drives him to help, its not a morality issue. Its functional.
Comic book summer camp? Where da hell was that when I was a kid 😂 give those kids some pencils and markers and let them draw some of these characters and appreciate the Artist too! 💀👌
I’m interested to know more about your comic book camp.
great series. cap beat his a$$.
'To survive war, you gotta become war'- John Rambo
The smarter you become about the world, the more you realize that The Punisher is truly the hero our world needs. Someone to clear out all the corrupt, satanic, soul less, psychopaths in high places.. like politicians, ceos, elite bankers etc. The Punisher is the only one capable. His logic is precise and he shows no fn mercy.
Here's a question, does the Punisher have a messiah complex?
@@CosmoShidanNo he actively believes no one should have to do what he does and is horrified by anyone looking up to him.
@@chakatBombshell Though I find it creepy one lumps Marx and Hobbes together when examining the Punisher. Marx would be horrified by the implication that his work is being compared to a political realist such as Hobbes, since what that entails is a tyrant with a who has no limits to his power. That is the path the Punisher is taking, and with that power, he cannot be stopped.
And the wiser you become about the world, the more you realize that in real life, overly violent and brutal solutions often end up causing more issues in the long run than they solve
@@Richard-jj9bj I'd say that violence solves more disputes in the real world, as it does lead to policy change. One example is how Operation Bread Basket in 1968 erupted into a riot, that forced the Johnson administration to administer better housing and job opportunities for working-class black folk. The problem with the Punisher, is that he's a liberal vigilante, who uses violence to only combat crime at it's disease, but not the root of it. And that is poverty, which can't be solved with a bullet most of the time.
Punisher is not a Villain, he's a vigilante.
Hero
anti hero
Punisher's real power is that he (as far as I know), has never accidentally hit or killed an innocent, never targets the wrong person, never causes excessive collateral damage. That's basically HIS "superpower". If he took just one innocent life, DareDevil or SpiderMan or IronMan could lecture him about how he's flawed (they tend to do that anyway, just w/o real justification except "killing bad"). But Punisher would just throw back in their smug faces that the Marvel heroes have a Batman/Joker relation with their villains where their villains may kill, they get beat up and thrown in jail, they inevitably escape and kill again.
Ironman and a good portion of the Marvel heroes don’t have a Batman/Joker relation with their villains and don’t throw them in jail, they straight up kill them.
Ironically Marvel tends to make their heroes more grey, they can kill if necessary and have their own agendas
Random but does anyone remember that incredible punisher game that came out in 2004??? I’d love a remake. I remember playing that game over and over for an entire summer
It will be in the Marvel vs Capcom collection game coming out later this year.
I loved that game.
@Saito232005 that's a different game you're referring to.
I played it
On the PS2, I still play it at least weekly still.
It captured the Punisher perfectly, and Thomas Jane’s voiceover is magnificent.
NOT a game that could be made these days unfortunately.
S: "Why do you have a skull on your shirt?"
P: "Because a picture of my face would look silly."
I'm honestly hoping that the Punisher's involvement in Daredevil Born Again will drive Marvel to publish new Punisher stories while reprinting old ones. There's no way that Marvel is done with Frank, knowing that they're still releasing omnibuses of The Punisher.
I've always LOVED the Punisher,he does the things we would never do,but,want it done to criminals any way.
Those Bastards, they don't wanna write new stories with Frank, unless it's Ennis' Max Universe but they're still making money off him reprinting his old runs: from The entire MAX series to Rick Remember's Run. In fact a new printing of Remember's run is out next week.
"You lie down with dogs, you get up with fleas, cap." Alright Leonidas, relax lol 😂
Love Robs sayings😂
The ethical, moral, and emotional subjects are the reason we read comics! Thanks for laying this out
He has tons of points, hollow points…
Armor Piercing
Incendiary, for when he's feeling festive.
Frank doesnt have points. Hes not about arguing. Some shit needs punishing, thats it. Leave rhe moral high ground arguing to the intelectuals later.
😂😂😂👍
As Leonardo da Vinci said: "He who does not punish evil commands it to be done".
Phenomenal quote, I'm borrowing that for my story. o7
I don't know the context of the quote, but to punish does not necessarily mean to kill.
I'll write that one down!
@@malafakka8530 true, though when the chance of recidivism is about as likely as the sun going up. Its usually implied.
though maiming and lobotomies are up in the air if your really want them to stay breathing.
I think frank castle would be very cross in having his name and karl marx' name in the same sentence
I doubt it. He would be really upset about the swine wearing his logo though. That blue lives matter bs would likely set him off somewhat.
Less Marx more like Malatesta.
The joker or the red skull have more in common with Marx. After all the red skull was a rouge Nazi general who's very ideals came from Karl Marx.
@@gorillawhale1046 right, because the Nazis weren't antagonistic toward the USSR, which was ideologically aligned with Marx's ideas and put them into practice, at all.
@@gorillawhale1046 you have no clue what you are talking about🤣. The Nazi's were definitely not basing their form of totalitarian government on Marx.
My dad who passed away this year, was what he thought to be an antique collector. He would fill our house with all kinda of junk to my mothers frustration but every now and then as a kid, I would get some really cool gifts. One day he came home with a giant box of just punisher comics. They were the only comics I ever read and to this day the punisher is the only comic book character I’ve ever cared about. For a year we also had a space invaders arcade cabinet I our living room 😂 my dad was hilarious. My mom would rage at him but he did make money off a lot of the things he got. Thanks for the memories old man!
The Punisher needs to have a sit down with Batman.
🤣
Haha last time they met it didn't go too well
Or go hunting with Red Hood.
Batman hates punisher... He kills and uses guns...
@simpsonsdidit7764 which is why he should have sit down with him, to realize how much of a coward and selfish prick Bruce is.
Punisher is an archetype I want to play in a ttrpg. The uncompromising paladin of justice, that sees themselves as the necessary balancing force to keep the world from squashing the weak and the innocent.
That his methods are harsh and brutal, but he sees them as absolutely necessary. That eventually he too will be judged, but by then he's paved a road of good intentions behind him.
Um... suggestions... how about Magneto or Xavier, even Apocalypse? They have flipped their scripts quite a few times, but I want to see if the needle kept pointing to their moral North the whole time.
I'd love to know more about Gambit, but that's just because I don't know a lot of him, just that he's undeniably cool.
@cidlunius1076 the type of people Id love to see Punisher go after are:
Jeri Hogarth from Jessica Jones
Bonnie Winterbottom from How to Get Away with Murder
Frank from How To Get Away With Murder
Hannibal Lecter from Silence of The Lambs
John Doe from Se7en
Mystique from X-Men
Joker
Harley Quinn
Alex DeLarge from A Clockwork Orange
Little Nina from The Boys
Michael Corleone from The Godfather
Zodiac Killer
Michael Fassbender from The Killer
Madds Mikkleston Hannibal Lector
Jack The Ripper
Cletus Kassidy from Spider-Man comics
Norman Osborn from Insomniac Spider-Man
Walter White from Breaking Bad
Todd Alquist from Breaking Bad
Uncle Jack from Breaking Bad
Patrick Bateman from American Psycho
Tony Soprano from The Sopranos
Thomas Shelby from Peaky Blinders
Nucky Thompson from Boardwalk Empire
Jules Winnfield from Pulp Fiction
Chef Slowik from The Menu
Barry Berkman from Barry
Fuches from Barry
Neagan from The Walking Dead
Anton Chigurh from No Country for Old Men
The Two people from Funny Games (1997)
Tom Ripley from The Talented Me.Ripley
Charles Manaon
Moriarity from Sherlock Holmes
Oswald Cobblepot from Gotham
Carmine Falcone from Gotham
The Flamingo from Gotham
Edward Nigma from Gotham
Salvatore Maroni from Gotham (batista lol)
Fish Mooney from Gotham (pre power up)
Jerome Valaska from Gotham
Victor Zssaz from Gotham/Batman Arkham
Kingpin
Riddler
Bullseye
Calypso From Spider-Man
Reminds me of DnD 3.X Grey Guard
This is basically the precept of the Oath of Vengeance Paladin, btw. :)
@@Seasonal-Shadow_4674 Harley Quinn is an anti-hero
@@Seasonal-Shadow_4674 Harley Quinn is an anti-hero
The punisher isnt just punishing criminals, he is punishing himself for failing to save his family.
That’s certainly a part of it, but more than that he’s a personification of war itself - having rejected traditional concepts of meaning and purpose in life that most people just accept as a given, he takes it upon himself to fight a conflict that never ends because nothing else seems possible to him anymore: trying to bring Frank Castle back into civilian life would be like trying to repurpose a sword to make fabric in a cloth factory - it’s just not a realistic prospect.
Perfect. Hes offering his inmortal soul and eternity in hell to punish sons of bitches on earth. Show me spidermen or daredevilmen that go that fae for their “saved”
@@yrnhhngr there's a backstory vietnam thing where he makes a sort of a deal with devil kind of a thing that's then losing the family.
they've reworked the whole vietnam thing by now a bunch of times too though, the current punisher is a bit too morally clean cut to be interesting, the old one was a dude ready to berzerk and losing the family did that and jumped through way more hoops in his mind about why what he was doing was correct(and that works a lot better when the people killed are just lower level criminals with families of their own or even just people who happen to work for a criminal, like in the older stuff it's way more apparent that there were collateral damage and people who didn't arguably morally deserve to die)
Yo rob botta turn into a villain fr 😂
About to?
He himself admits that if he got powers, he'd be a villain, lol
Rob has been on his villain arc for awhile
On bro 😭😭😭
Just woke up, thought the thumbnail said "The punisher has a Spoon"
How else is Frank supposed to eat cereal?
@@ianfinrir8724lol
@@ianfinrir8724 just slurp it down, like a man.
Punisher war machine is probably my favourite storyline of the character.
Fantastic writing, artwork and character development.
That really was Frank's final form. It was glorious.
Of course the punisher has a point, the problem is are we going to follow his point to it’s ultimate conclusion and are we ok with the fallout of his philosophy, sometimes I wonder if heroism is doing right or being right, the battle between daredevil and punisher is the battle of wills we go through morally
Finaly someone who actually got it. Their argument is about what matters more, being morally righr or doinf whats righr? The answer is both are correct, and both need each other. No one wants a world of punisher cops. No one wants a world of social worker cops. My opinion now: punisher is the greates hero cause hes the one who has to sacrifice his soul for doing whats righr even kniwjng its now ideally righr. He leaves the ideals for the daredevils and chooses to burn jn hell for the righr rhibg.
@@yrnhhngr You are yappin.
@@yrnhhngr You are yappin.
I like the moral evaluation. Especially when you reference real world people who dedicated their lives to understanding.
Yeah thanks for the philosophy lesson Rob!
The punisher's the only hero that actually makes sense
Yup
Truth.
Pretty much. I really like Batman and Spider-Man, but Punisher is quite frankly (pun unintended) the most effective one.
@@mirceazaharia2094batman is interested in job security, not prevention/inoculation of crime.
@@mirceazaharia2094 Spider-Man I could kinda understand because canonically, he is a teenager or very young adult (early 20s). But for Batman who is a fully-grown man and probably has seen a lot of terrible crimes even before his parents were murdered, he should know that some criminals are well-beyond saving. And yet he insists that they somehow have the right to life when they clearly don’t see the same for innocent civilians.
The Punisher may have a point, but it doesn’t mean he’s completely right.
I absolutely love this character, but not because I agree with his philosophy. I just find him so intriguing.
Yeah, I think just like you.
The Punisher is an Avatar for mankind's thirst for vengeance and Daredevil is the Avatar for Justice. You shouldn't want to be the Punisher, he doesn't want anyone to be like him, he's told people that is they're looking for a role model, you need to look at Captain America.
Cap isn’t scary enough
@@GnosisZX your choices of role model are guy who cant cuss, normal guy with wings, normal guy with ptsd
Exactly. People who idolize Castle are very, very näive.
@@MutantsInDisguise or tired of injustices that can’t be fixed and system so broken it can’t protect anyone
@@GnosisZX like a guy like The Punisher helps fix anything when all he does is make things worse than they already are.
Bro approached this vid like a university assignment💀backing up his points with in text referencing. Don’t forget the reference list too
Not really.
@@jasonbeatty831 bring up points or stop being a snarky lil douche
It's a video essay. IT'S LITERALLY AN ESSAY BUT VIDEO.
Dumbass
People do university work for a living, you know? Academia doesn't stop at your school days. It can be a career.
The Punisher was right
The Punisher’s philosophy doesn’t work.
@@mr.l5783 lmfao you buggin all love
I believe every person Should watch Cool Hand Luke. 'Some men.. you just.. can't reach...'
@@furrybogard9724 I will look it up thx 🙏🏾
@@johnnyblaze6910 It's basically the question of rehabilitation. Are people worth saving or not. Anytime anyone talks about good MCU writing I point them to Netflix DareDevil when he talks to Frank on the rooftop. It's just such a great scene and so well written. It makes you think.
The Punisher isn't even a villain he's just a realistic vigilante. Heck Frank Castle doesn't even look down on a lot of heroes, he knows the world needs the actual sources of good and hope and actually respects them. Frank Castle doesn't go around killing every criminal as well he'll scare lesser criminals but will only kill one's who actually do the really horrible stuff.
My favorite thing about Frank Castle is he is horrified by anyone looking up to him because he knows what he does is bad.
I don’t think the Rosenberg stories is a good example of Frank Castle. It’s essentially, in Rosenberg eyes, bigger gun bigger criminal. That series came out during a time when Marvel didn’t really know what to do with The Punisher and saw him as problematic.
And I don’t think Rosenberg ever understood the character the way Ennis and Fraction did.
It's a damn shame Marvel never brings up that the Punisher is probably the only Italian superhero in Marvel outside of Strongguy. Because there's A LOT of rage among Italians over generations of being terrorized by fascists, communists and mafiosi and a general distrust of authority in general.
It's easy for comic writers to kill villians who are nobodies. If every superhero was the Punisher, no comic would run over a year. You can't apply real world logic to every superhero and have a 90 year print run. There are fan-favorite villians that readers want to see again.
I love all the philosophical context. Please throw more of that in these videos it’s fascinating to learn about such in-depth motivations
Philosophical… marx… not really working here
I consider him a hero who actually gets stuff done. No need for superpowers or billions of dollars & tech .
I love this new format. How you're bringing in philosophy and explaining it is really both educational and interesting. I hope you do more pieces like this
The punisher dirty laundry is an amazing short with thomas jane. It's not a comic, but it's still badass
Netflixs Punisher/Daredevil was actually pretty damn good and probably my fav Marvel tv shows. But we need a TRULY HIGH BUDGET PUNISHER MOVIE! Dark and explosive like the new Batman.
With Bernthal, of course!
Ehh...not a fan of Bernthal's Punisher. Clint Eastwood in his Heartbreak Ridge era would have been perfect.
Philosophical references often miss the point completely. Hobbes would hate the idea of the Punisher; his idea of social contract is people surrendering their right to enact violence to the state, to avoid war of everyone against everyone. Also, bringing up fighting against colonial oppression in regard to Punisher: War Machine, where American citizen pushes his values on other nations, is out of the left field
@@DimitriX-zq1dr I said much the same thing in a comment and for some
Reason, mine has been deleted. I think Rob is getting rid of material critical of his video here….
He is indeed, every time I criticise his idea of what Nihilism is, he deleted the comment.
Man can’t even pronounce Foucault properly and thinks he’s a sage....
You are correct. With all due respect to the author of the video, that was a complete mispresentation of what Ennis was writing about.
@@paulnash9851 oh snap! I thought it was just me! What a coward.
I went looking through the comments hoping to see someone point this out but too many people don't realize how much of the philosophical analysis is...questionable, at best. Kierkegaard was talking about things beyond our reasoning (for him specifically faith) so using his concept of the "leap of faith" alongside utilitarianism is off the mark. You mention Hobbes would hate the Punisher, I doubt Locke would like him any better. And the mention of Fanon and then using the example of the American colonists versus the British monarchy? Wow. Way off the mark with what Fanon was talking about. There is a good conversation to be had about the philosophy of the Punisher, but this ain't it.
I love the philosophical approach you’re sharing since I wasn’t expecting to hear Frantz Fanon about the punisher but it’s sensible perspective that I value; much love, I thank you.
Not only is the Punisher correct, we need actual Punishers irl these days. Government has failed, the justice system is a joke and at this point there needs to be Punisher in every state of this country.
It's funny that you view Castle through Foucault's lens, when if Foucault is viewed through Castle's lens... well, ol' Frank wasn't fond of those who, uh, did inappropriate things to children.
Reminds me of the comic frank saves two kids from their pedo parents… they make good points in how killing them would actually worsen rhe kids situation. Frank isnt about saving anyone… frank is about punishing
9:58 All I remember from this run was this was where they straight up just traced Jon Bernthal's face into the comic. Shame, it looks like a cool idea.
I love these ideological assessments of the comic book characters keep it up rob!
You can word it like that to make it fit the Punisher, but Soren Kierkegaard was a 19th-century philosopher who created the concept of a leap of faith, which refers to having trust in something despite its lack of reasoning, logic, and rationality. "Making a leap" into a "new moral code" is a bit of a stretch. It's more like his environment shaping him. If you look into any story of PTSD, true story or fictional, the Marine or soldier usually fights against the change, internally at the very least. It's like grieving a death, so the final step is just acceptance. That's not a leap of faith, but maybe the new moral code will push the Marine to many new leaps of faith as he cuts his teeth in his new way of life.
We need a punisher irl asap
We really don’t.
@@jasonbeatty831 True. We don't need another maniac whose living in his solipsism.
@@mabussubam512 just a straight up hypocrite who kills the symptom instead of the actual disease.
@@mabussubam512Who is the first one ?
This is genuinely my favorite video you ever produced you even connected it with fanon.More videos like this please
Absolutely love these philosophical videos! Thanks for another great video dude. Keep up the great work Rob!
Rob you aren't a Comic Book Enthusiast, you shine a light on the failures of society through the medium of comicbooks
The Punisher is a god of Justice. Not in the DC sense with magic powers, but in the grounded Nietschean sense. He will always be compelling bc he is simultaneously relatable and exceptional.
Justice is cold abd stoic, not emotional and savage. Who relates to a murderer?
@@MutantsInDisguisehe kills murderers stupid
Punisher will always be better than Batman
One of my favorite Characters. What makes him so dangerous is that there are actual Military veterans who has the same skills as Castle. One tragic event set him off.
Great video! I loved how you underpinned it with philosophical concepts of morality , for me this is where much of the depth in punisher books can be found
It takes BRASS BALLS to post something with this title right now.
Why
@@extremepop324Because dumbasses are trying to make the Punisher a culture war issue, because cops and the military fucking love the Punisher for some reason
The Shadow did it better and 40 years before the punisher was even created.
Every pulp hero in the 30s and 40s was like that
@@billyboleson2830 so why are modern super héroes such snowflakes?.
Frank does have a point from time to time. I do get a chuckle out of the fact he debuted as a Spider-Man villain, and if Spidey wasn't so "soft", Frank wouldn't have a career. I like when writers are self aware that Frank does this because that boy ain't right. Not because he thinks he's actually making the world a better place. Newsflash, Castle: You're about as effective as those "soft" heroes. Kingpin is still a thing. Norman Osborn is still a thing. The Owl is still a thing. Basically every big name villain who isn't bulletproof is still out there, Frank.
Thats why its more fun to pull the Ennis books out of the mainline MCU. The Slavers aint coming back, the Black Irish aint coming back, the Russians... ok well they may come back but no one survived that.
There's also the "THE END" book where the Punisher literally, literally here, kills the last human beings on earth. So no ones still a thing :)
They've got plot armor, unfortunately.
Frank Castle has said it the best. He is not the good guy.
He is a villain, in an Anti-Hero role. I mean the dude is a psychopath. He drops purse snatchers.
I mean the dude blasted Peter in the face.
Given kids PTSD, let people unalive themselves. He cares about his code over everything, and eliminating the "evil" despite what happens to others. He uses innocents as bait, etc.
He is a actually a very complex character. Us debating it shows that.
Fascinating essay on the Punisher. I love the research put into it. As a long time listener I can tell this was brewing for a while.
If Punisher were a real dude he'd probably take out a lot of guys that buy his merch.
Mannnnnn
If Punisher was real i think he would go to Chicago first then LA second. I also think he'd make his way down to Mexico along with some other badasses or maybe even solo. He'd have his work cutout for him but he'd have fun.
Hello author of two of the worst punisher runs to ever be written how did you become one person?
@@RomanvonUngernSternbergnrmfvus ?
Yea probably not.
This is the right kind of spice
Great and descriptive video. Great points. Eloquently concise
Love this format of videos, the mix of philosophical arguments and comic book history is superb!
Love your content keep up the great work
You're a natural on camera, keep shining!
The PUNISHER is an unjust solution in an unjust world... he needs to start weeding out the scum from the top though...
These new form of videos been hittin
The punisher on the Netflix show rather the Daredevil show, the rooftop scene really shows u that Frank is on a mission to eliminate all criminal families and that's why I like the fact that he answers to nobody.
I am 100% behind any actions by Frank Castle.
Todays corruption is only removed by force.
The issue with the Punisher, is that while he might have a philosophy it does seem to be a bit inconsistent and the effectiveness of his methods is called in the question many times. And not just by characters in opposition like Captain America, Daredevil or Spiderman, but by Punisher himself. In the Slavers story, he admits his powerlessness to make things better for the victims or to undo the damage and trauma, he laments how even as he takes care of this group that they will be up and running in no time, and that he won’t be able to find them. In the final storyline of Punisher MAX, Bullseye discovers and makes Castle realize he was never a good father or husband and he planned to abandon Maria and the kids. Punisher has express admiration for heroes like Captain America and War Machine, who are part of the system. At the end of the day I think, above all, Frank is a soldier and he fights because he doesn’t remember how not to.
I mean the war that created him was Vietnam, where you could argue the enemy had the same philosophy of doing whatever it was necessary to defend their country from the foreign invaders. And they got the enemy to also fight back with harsh methods, in the end making the war an ever bigger bloodbath long before it was settle, not with a military victory but negotiation. So it could be seen as how the methods of the Punisher do not work, even if is cathartic to see him do such brutal things to people who absolutely deserve it.
The Punisher doesn't wear a disguise, he never tries to be something he is not. Frank Castle is dead, don't expect any mercy from The Punisher. My all time favorite comic book (anti) Hero. 100% rage all the time.
P.s. did they drop a bunker buster bomb on a Punisher in chains, and he still walked away. Only to execute a cab driver, who was drinking and driving, while wearing a Punisher tee shirt, saying that kids play in the streets and you drive around loaded? Booooom! Booooom!
Can’t wait for next year when he makes his “Skibidi Toilet has a point” video it’s gonna be SICK!!
Every villain or cruel hero has a "point" but its the pain they cause that gives them their reputation
Pain is a byproduct of stimuli. Its a consequence for having nerves and tactile interaction. The pain is there to teach a lesson or warn. He teaches through pain because everyone listens to pain. Everyone.
@@Saito232005 In the 1500's, a German lord was brought to a suspected witch to see the work of the Inquisition.
He approached the woman who gave him the names of several other witches in her coven. When he asked her if there were any witches in the room, she pointed to the two Inquisitors and said, "Yes, these two danced with demons under the bright moon. I've seen it with my own eyes."
The lord turned to the Inquisitors and said, "You tell me whether your methods were effective."
The German Inquisition abandoned torture within the year.
Anyone who thinks pain is some insight into beauty is the product of a lie the Inquisition revealed 500 years ago. A lie we roll out and indoctrinate people into over and over. A lie that has never worked and never will.
Punisher Max was the definitive Punisher series until Ennis left. Then it immediately became absolute trash. He's the only writer that truly seems to get the character at his core.
I hate how the series tried to add a ton of military conspiracy stuff to his backstory. Like most adaptations, despite a perfect actor, it totally missed the point of the Punisher. There's a reason the Max version never even bothered to track down the people responsible for his family for like 40 years; it's not a revenge story and it keeps getting misunderstood as one.
His wife and children were murdered in cold blood through no fault of his or theirs. What man in his position would not have at least wanted to do the same thing? Frank Castle (nee Castiglione) just happened to be ready, willing, and able to do it. The problem with vigilantes, however, is that eventually even they kill innocent people, even if they don't mean to. By now, I am sure he has been retconned into being a Middle East-Afghanistan veteran. If he were still a Vietnam veteran he'd be in his seventies.
He was retconned to being a veteran of Afghanistan in the Netflix Punisher series and Daredevil on Netflix before that.
Nah... I felt like the correlations in philosophy were extremely thin throughout the video, but you veered off into outright parody by bringing up Marx in the context that you did.
As much as I love your content, this was absurdly pretentious.
Indeed
Perfect timing on this one.
Keep it up brad i really love these videos it tella us so much about these amazing characters
The Punisher only works because of the way the comic cycle is. In any other stories, comic book supervillains are killed or executed by forces other than the heroes or done in by their own hands. Because comics don't end, neither do they. Batman, the ur example, only continues to exist because writers keep forcing him to exist in the same form that he always has in order to sell comics.
The Punisher exists to capitalize on the frustration of comic readers who've grown up and come into some amount of philosophy that the shaky nature of what the industry has caused the writing to become. He isn't so much "right" as he is "different". Other heroes' villains can't die because the writers need them, while The Punisher hunts characters who aren't nearly as grandiose or interesting as supervillains which allows them to die instead. Even then, this continues forever because he sells comic books. In any other story, Frank Castle would have long since died in an interesting fashion.
I'd say the limits of the Punishers' methods are that he can't hit the root of crime, and that's poverty.
They NEED to make a punisher open city game!
I think the Netflix adaptation did a terrible job of capturing the character of Frank Castle.
Frank is a surgical and stoic individual.
He's not a rabid dog.
He's calculated in his behaviour.
The Netflix show just had a screaming slobbering crazy headcase with a brain injury.
That’s because the person who made that show hated the subject matter, it’s the Witcher all over again.
I love this character. I just didnt like it when super heroes or super villains were in the Punisher's "universe." That is why I loved the Garth Ennis stuff.
I love these types of videos. keep them coming
whole different tone in this video. ur inner child took a backset? flexing that big philosophical brain. havent heard hobbs referenced since good will hunting..applesauce lol
Rob, could Frank thrive or survive in DC Universe? Better yet could he clean up the criminals of Gotham (without Bruce to interfere)?
"This is what happens when you take the law into your own hands; others will start doing it too"
-Kim Kitsuragi
Tell it to the criminals
The Punisher is basically Marvel's Doomguy.
Thank you for this Rob you are the goat the punisher was always thee Badass Anti Hero One Man Army against crime and villainy despite his methods i Always wonder why none of the marvel superheroes put him down yet less he is possessed or killed innocences
punisher doesnt prioritize in his quest prioritized, outside of his rogues gallery and creeps, he prioritizes low level crooks over serial killers like Zodiac or villains in the Marvel universe that keep getting away (who he could easily and deservingly put down)
Sheesh the timing on this video is a little suss. But I do love Punisher comics. The real question is, how do you really know who is guilty? How do you know for sure? When you punish too hastily, a lot of collateral damage will happen to innocents.
you do the work and dont be lazy on finding facts
Sus on what?
I like how you're diving more thematically into things now.
Born is also the comic where he executes the woman one of his buddies is raping because helping her would make them trust him less.
Don't try to defend Punisher, he stopped being morally grey when Garth Ennis got his hands on him.