2011 Martin Acoustic Guitar needs the action lowered.. almost unplayable!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 31 ธ.ค. 2020
- This 2011 Martin GPCPA3 Acoustic guitar was dropped off at my workshop this week with the customer complaining about the action being really high - he was right! I shaved the saddle and got this beauty playing really smooth and tight. Enjoy the video and please Like and Subscribe for more content.
-Steve
Manotick StringWorks
Ottawa, Ontario
sroyMSW@gmail.com
Instagram @manotickstringworks
#martin, #acoustic, #guitar - แนวปฏิบัติและการใช้ชีวิต
After watching probably 50 different acoustic guitar setup videos on YT. This setup is done by someone who knows what their doing. The camera angles, the measurement specs, the techniques on how to do the adjustments are perfect. Also, using the proper tools for the job. -- 10/10 Thanks for the upload!
Thanks, Alex! I hope you have subbed to my channel too?
@@ManotickGuitarTech Subscribed - Thanks for the quality uploads!
👍👍👍👍🎸🎸🎸❣️❣️💞💝💝💝🌹🌹
Thank you so much. I have a 1997 Marin D-18 and have never had it setup... I'm finally getting around to learn basic guitar maintenance. Your explanation and demonstration are very helpful.
I am glad you enjoyed the video! I hope you have subscribed to the channel?
Best setup video I have seen! Played casually for 30 years, away for 10, getting back into it and needed to set up my acoustic...this is THE BEST setup video I have seen. Too many vids out there are garbage. Thanks guys for doing it simple and doing it right!
This is a very helpful demo - thanks.
I am glad you enjoyed the video- I hope you have subscribed to my channel?
Thanks for this video! Action on my new Mexican-made Martin was waaay too high. I adjusted the neck relief (another TH-cam video), which helped, but using the calculations in this video took JUST the right amount off the bottom of the saddle and the action is now exactly on spec! Plays MUCH better!
Awesome- glad I could help! I hope you have subscribed to my channel?
Well done, I loved it!
You are so much better than most of the luthiers that try to explain this
@@MatthewCuda thanks, I try to keep it simple
Great video, thank you for sharing you knowledge!
Glad you liked it! I hope you have subbed to my channel too?
Super clear demonstration, describes before and after, plus all of the target parameters involved in adjusting a fine guitar action. Martins are notoriously high settings from the factory.
Thanks! Martins can be finicky and the truss rod access is difficult (for no reason).
Yup. They love their bluegrass players.
Get a D28 1937 Authentic and it's fine.😊
Thank you for posting. I found it very helpful.
Glad I could help - I hope you have subbed to my channel, too?
@@ManotickGuitarTech Absolutely subscribed
I have this exact model. Can’t imagine using 13s with high action. These come with 10s and switching to 13 had to raise the action. 😮
I use 9s and took off about same you did on my saddle. Was easy to do! Thanks for the math formula. It worked great!
There is a reason we take math in school 😁
I'll add this to your nice video: when sanding down the saddle as you get close to your desired height - take a black sharpie and paint the bottom of the saddle black or you could use another color if that's what you have but black can be seen better in contrast to the white. Then gently sand the saddle for a few seconds and look at the bottom of the saddle to see where there is still some black - and sand that area - repeat until your saddle is entirely white. This will ensure a very exact flat bottom. Using the pencil marker - line method is fine but if you have a Fishman under the saddle/piezo pickup -they are super sensitive and you will get uneven output from the strings. I'm speaking from experience :-) Thanks again for a great video my friend!
Great tip- thanks!
@@ManotickGuitarTech always a pleasure/honor to add something :-)
Really great video. Your calm demeanor helps too.
Thanks, Peter! I hope you have subscribed to my channel and watched my latest video for a chance to win some custom string gauges?
Just did mine. I sped up the sanding by carefully using the side of my bench grinder wheel. Those saddles are made of tough stuff. Like he said in the video, just sand so that you can still see your guide mark. I have an incredible action on my guitar now, it's much better, but tbh if I had sanded just a little bit further I would have been in deep doo doo.
It is always good to go slow when sanding...you can't put the material back once it is gone.
We all want guitars set up to our liking; some like them higher, some lower. It’s much easier to lower the action than raise it so it makes sense for them to be sold higher than average.
Altering your action is just something you need to learn as it will always need altering with; eg. Age, humidity, different gauge strings, different usage etc.
My D18 is pretty high too. I don't know the measurements because i don't have a gauge but it's higher than my other 2 acoustics i know that. I need to get the action lowered at some point. Still sounds great i most play it around the cowboy chord position. It's when you move up the fretboard i notice it's harder to play unless i'm using a capo.
Same guitar same problem, and avoid playing it. Thank you for the detailed video! Looking forward to a better playing guitar 👍
awesome mate thanks ✌🏼✌🏼
Glad you enjoyed the video- I hope you have subscribed to my channel?
Excellent breakdown. Just some advice. My Martin dread has extra light 10s presently set up with perfect action. If I move up one gauge, let’s say to custom lights (11s) or even to 12s would I likely need a truss rod adjust? And if so, only that?
Usually you would only need to adjust the neck relief.
Excellent video! Now can someone explain why Martin's tend to have high actions from the factory? I'm just an amateur player of country / folk / rock and have several expensive Martins and all came with "ok" actions, none as low as I'd like. Just humidified them, but we still have winter here in NW WI and they could all use a truss adjustment I'm sure. But, I'm told that Martin likes high actions and that 'the Dealer should adjust them" - well, you can only take so much off the saddle, and eventually then what? Seems to me they should start low, and those wanting to bang away aggressively can always install a taller saddle.
No… they should stick with their current saddle height out of factory. Those models. Especially the Dreadnoughts are set up high because that’s how they always did it. Blue grass players and the old style of playing is higher action… If they were lower… I wouldn’t want to buy a historic Martin knowing I have to get a taller saddle…….. Martin doesn’t make it a priority to adapt to every random joe blows opinions like other companies.. they are the best at what they do and they shouldn’t do it any other way…. If you buy a Martin Guitar… getting a proper action set up to your own liking is 100% a part of that experience. And it’s sacrilege to own a Martin and not have it play to your liking and action setting. A Cadillac comes from the factory with the seat straight up… it’s up to you to adjust the position to how you sit in it.. no difference
Great video! The saddle looks pretty low to me. How long do you think it will be before needing a neck re-set?
new sub. good video. thanks!!
Thanks, Doug
Agreed! Watched over 20 videos on how to do this and this is the only one to actually say AND demonstrate how to do it!
Thank you so very much.
🤞🤞that I don’t screw it up, but at least I have an idea of how to accomplish this.
@@jeffbaily8247 you got this!
Thanks so much again - I certainly hope you are correct!!! You time is greatly appreciated by me!
Thanks for the video. What do you like the action on a Martin to be for strumming, barre chords, finger picking, and just general use? I know it’s a bit of a personal preference, but what action do you like? Thank you very much.
I am partial to 5/64ths on the bass side and 4/64ths on the treble side; nut action of .016-.018" at the first fret
@@ManotickGuitarTech thank you very much.
@@ManotickGuitarTech , a man after my own heart!
Love this video, it's going to come in handy but quick question, why double the difference for removing the excess?
Glad you liked the video! You have to double the amount because your string height measurement at the 12 fret is only 1/2 way to the bridge... if that makes sense 😁
Yes of course, many thanks@@ManotickGuitarTech
Hi nice video. Can you tell me if you ever come across an acoustic guitar that you could not lower the action due to neck set angle?
I have a few times, but I don't do neck resets so I refer them on to other Luthiers or repair techs.
Thank you for this demonstration. You mentioned you checked the intonation. How do you do that? And how do you fix it if it isn’t right? Thank you.
Hard to fix on an acoustic- you would need to reshape the saddle take off points
@@ManotickGuitarTech thank you. I’m considering doing my own setups and I don’t want to mess anything up. I’m going to try sanding the saddle myself. It is a martin compensated saddle, so hopefully the top of it is done right. It is just too high.
@@v2807 just a little bit at a time
@@ManotickGuitarTech your tips about marking the front and the current height are great! And so is showing how to calculate how much to take off. I feel ready to give it a try.
Hello Sir, I have subbed to the channel . First time visitor. I'm wondering if you might be able to shed light on something. I have a Martin HD28 and on one particular note, the F, when fretted and plucked it tends to ¨thud¨. I believe it's call a ¨wolf note.¨ What causes this and is there anything that can be done about it? I recently purchased a cheap Yamaha and I swear the Yamaha plays, dare I say, better than my Martin at 1/10th the cost. I'm hoping to improve the tonality of the Martin though by somehow correcting for this wolf tone I'm getting. Any thoughts? Do you run into this kind of thing in your shop?
Hard to diagnose and fix without seeing the instrument, but I would try changing your strings first - different brands and different gauges. You might find that eliminates the "wolf" tone.
@@ManotickGuitarTech Thanks for the tip. Much appreciated!
@@Geotubest let me know how it goes
Wouldnt a desired action be 5/64 on the bass and 4/64 on the treble? My D-28 is set up this way from factory
That would be ideal, but in my experience, very few acoustic guitars can be set up that low - even very expensive ones - and maintain that action through temperature changes and ordinary playing.
Tony Cannata , I have a CS D28 bought new in 2018, and asked Reno's Music in IN for a low action. By golly it's still at 5/64" and 4/64" , plays perfectly yet. You are lucky if yours was that low from the factory. But keep in mind that Bluegrass players like higher actions, so that's one reason why they are often a bit high from the factory.
I always check the neck relief in the playing position without any pressure on the neck. The relief should be .008, not .012
Buz, you can do it either way... I have found over the years it makes no discernible difference
7:19 What is the reasoning behind multiplying by difference by 2? Shouldn't the saddle height be reduced by the same amount you want string height be reduced?
Good question, Paul. The string height at the bridge is about twice as high as what the measurement is at the 12th fret- that's why you double the amount to compensate.
@@ManotickGuitarTech Thanks for the info!
I would think that the action wasn't always that high at the saddle. What would cause a change like that?
Most likely the neck angle was not set properly at the factory.
Very good video, although, i couldn't work, with that apron and, sweat shirt on!
lol - cold in the workshop!
I prefer a much lower action on my guitars, .008" at the first fret, .050" at the twelfth and very little relief. Hard to use fractions with my digital height gauge.
Everyone likes something different...
I've never bought a new guitar yet that didn't need a setup!
They are very rare if they do not.
That makes sense as everyone’s setup is different.
My Taylor 314e was set up perfectly. My Gibson J-45 was reasonably close, but I shaved 1.4mm from the saddle. My Martin OM-CPA4 was set up terribly from the factory (was it checked at all??), I traded it for the Taylor.
I had to have mine lowered too. Martin likes to leave the action high for some reason.
Usually due to shipping and the fact they stay in stores for months at a time
@@ManotickGuitarTech , then how do you explain the lower actions of Taylor's? Or at least that's their reputation.
@@captainamerica9353 Most acoustic guitars are shipped new with higher actions from the factory so they don't have any fret buzz when played in the store. Once you buy one at a good music store, they should adjust the action lower for you.
@@captainamerica9353typically…. Action is 100% preference. These guitars come standard higher action… because….. you can always go down… but it’s harder to go up with out using shims.… also… bluegrass players usually play high action. a proper set up to your liking is part of the buying experience.
@DG-bb1jz I paid $60 for a custom setup on a new Martin I just got but it came at 7/64 action. Should i complain?
Yep I have the same complaint string action far too high on my Martin. If it didn't sound so great I would have sent it back to where I bought it from.
After owning several expensive Martins, I called once to complain. The answer was that you're expected ask the dealer to lower the action! I call BS, as for what they cost, they should be "correct" from the factory!
@@captainamerica9353 yeah I'll think twice next time most Taylor & faith guitars have great action
@@Spacedraptor , I should mention that between playing styles and temperature / humidity changes, they don't want to ship them with low actions. You are supposed to ask your store if you want low. Curious if you bought online or in person, and what your string height is?
@@captainamerica9353 that argument doesn't really hold water when every Taylor or faith is great out of the box I was in a reputable dealer & every Martin on the wall had action I mile high.
All companies ship from overseas I only see martin's with setups this bad & for the money it's disgraceful
@@Spacedraptor, I love my Martins; maybe I'm becoming a FanBoy . . . one of their arguments is having is having a medium action to keep the Bluegrass players happy. But if you're like me, you're supposed to ask for lower. Still, as you say the Martins have the bad rap, and I don't think that's a myth. I'd still like know your action height in 64th's though I can convert it.
How much should one expect to pay for this service? I need it on my Martin JrD. Thanks.
Depending on your area, about $80-120, I would think
@@ManotickGuitarTech Thanks. The guitar is new, so I'm thinking it should be a warranty repair.
@@danielswierczynski2001 absolutely
I have a drs 1, and the action is too high, and I may get it fixed. It also cracked in the back. I thought I put it down too hard, but the tech said it was due to dry air. It's really turning me off of martin. My next quality guitar will be a taylor.
Dryness can happen with any acoustic guitar...have to keep them humidifed
@Manotick StringWorks you're right but Martin's need more attention and I didn't know that because this is my first Taylor's do as well but from what I've seen from individuals who owned them around me they hold up better. It may also be I require a guitar with a thick lacquer finish.
My DRS1 just cracked in the back a week ago as well after 7 years. The crack now comes and goes due to the humidity or the lack there of. Just bought an HPL special x series Martin so we'll see how it does.
Martins are well known for excessively high actions, I mean really unnecessarily high. I have a good few of them, and every single one needed major work to get them to play properly. Even a 5 grand martin comes with an action you could park a bus under. Even after this setup here, the action was still high in my book. It's a real shame because they sound great, but they're just close to unplayable from the factory.
The problem is everyone likes a different action. So manufacturers tend to go high otherwise, if it was too low for your preference you’d need a new saddle. It’s not like taking the action down to your liking is a major chore.
@@bluenova1000 Yeha I get that, but very few people want an action so high it's practically impossible to play, and if one does clamp down hard enough to get a sound out of it, that sound is way out of tune because the strings are pulled out so far. so ... if 99.99% of people don't want a crazy high action, then wouldn't it make more sense to set up the guitar with a decent action, then provide shims for those who want it higher ? If you think about it, no other guitar maker does what martin does, at least no deliberately lol, and they would if they thought that's what people want. Martin have been using this excuse for many years, but it doesn't hold much water really, it just makes things easier for Martin by transferring the work to the buyer.
I have had a Martin 12 string and I was Not impressed ! They may be the 'Top of the Mark', but I just got an Epiphone 12 string Jumbo that sounds and plays better than any Martin I've ever played.
I bought a used d16… the action was way to high. Decided to adjust the truss rod myself… ended up breaking it… so much for that…
Darn - that sucks!
@@ManotickGuitarTech
Yeah. I called around, and everyone said it would cost what I paid for the guitar to fix it… I found a guy by me who said he has his own way of doing it and will give it a shot.. he says he works with classical guitars that don’t have a truss rod.
He said if he couldn’t, he wouldn’t charge me, and if he could make it at least playable, $150…
Let’s
See what happens.
@@Hollyrock712 sounds fair enough- good luck and let me know how it goes!
@@ManotickGuitarTech The guy called me and I went there and he fixed it !!! I was amazed... He didn't touch the truss rod, that's broke forever, but he did something with heat and clamps, and the action is better than original. he won't tell anyone his secret to how he does it.He charged me $150, and said if the action gets bad agin, which he almost guaranteed me that it wouldn't, he would fix it for free... Im amazed !
@@Hollyrock712 sounds like a good deal!
6:48 If these calculations woud have been metric, the world would have understood them much better.
I put metric measurements on my videos now where relevant. Tell me, how do you measure the metric equivalent of 3/32"? It is 2.381mm... do you round up to 2.4 mm? I find 2.4 mm hard to read on a ruler - I can see 3/32nds just fine.
I use both systems where practical. Nothing wrong with using both systems.
@@ManotickGuitarTech I know what you mean. But only luthiers in the US, Liberia and Mianmar can understand your calculation. For you, King Edward II's thumb is a unit of measurement. To define smaller units you think it makes sense to divide this thumb into 1/2, 1/4, 1/8 etc. Therefore, 1/64 inch corresponds to 0.396875 mm. Wow, that's a number. But you can see, that at least in theory, you can measure very finely. It is of course much easier to enter such numbers into a calculator. In practice, however, such numbers are not used. At least the end result would probably be rounded up to 0.4 mm. But in precision engineering, 1/1000 mm units are quite common.
You metric whiners just prove that the metric system ruins your ability to do math or use any ingenuity. Pull out that fancy phone and do a calculation! That and it proves your memory is trashed because your magic number is a simple 2mm. Can you remember 2mm? We remember 5/64 and have since our first setup 60 years ago and you can't remember 2mm. What's wrong with you people?
Cant understand why Martin would make such a guitar with such high action?
They get shipped with high actions and the stores are supposed to adjust them.
If youre spending over $300 on any guitar, dont mail order it if at all possible. Play it first. Even if they have a return policy its still a pain in a behind to return.
I've noticed Martin QC is almost non-existent.
Plastic saddle with holes should be solid, especially with piezoelectric. Bone. Nut plastic as well?🤣
Still don't undersand why people in us use inches instead of simple milimeters. All the mess with fractions...😅
It is what you are used to, I guess... I am comfortable using both where needed.
Fractions aren’t that hard. A meter is also an arbitrary unit. If you use decimals rather than fractions (of course decimals ARE fractions, as are centimeters and millimeters) you can use a calculator if your math skills are weak. But again, fractions have rules and shortcuts that can make them just as easy as metrics.
Because we are smart enough to use fractions 😂
America never changed to metric because US Gov't knew so many Americans would never be able to grasp it. The rest of the world managed but not USA. They were also well down the world literacy list back then too.
@@alan4sure I know! Probably too busy running the world economically and culturally. Just outsource the math is the American way!
he uses math, I tend to put an eyeball on it n' go, it needs to have "that much" removed.. go a lil shy then sand to perfection
neck is Nero and havy body is thicker wood not thiner olso havy.its hard to play with regular string i had nightmer with stupid dysine people don't have knowledge to andrestand same as fender my dream guitar
martins craftsmanship has really gone down hill in the last 10 to 15 years , And the CEO of martin does not seem to care , i've seen brand new d 28 come out of the factory with hairline cracks in them ,i had a 2015 d 41 the binding fell off the guitar two times that's a 5000.00 dollar guitar called martin said it's not their problem , got a new gibson humming bird sounds and plays better than any martin i'have ever played .
Too bad you have a bad experience with them... Gibson Hummingbirds are very nice to play.
This seems to be a common problem with Martin and it shouldn’t be. Total nonsense
I don’t know why you spend so much money on a Taylor and the setup sucks. I just did and the same thing for me. Never again will I buy online from a certain company with 55 point inspection. Not sure what they inspect but it ain’t string height and play ability.
Another bad guitar from Martin made in Mexico discusting considering the price of them
On Martins site they say "With the exception of the Authentic Series, we Plek every wood guitar in both our Nazareth and Navajo facilities."
so you are saying you need more action? 🎬