Thanks, just ordered the 3 way feeler gauge and the string action gauge ruler. I just received the 5mm truss rod adjustment for my new Martin guitar. Having done all my electric setups by feel and eye, it's a good time to use gauges this time around as to reduce the potential of error...basically set up ALL my guitars properly with measuring tools
My luthier moved out of state so i bought the musicnomad kit and watched this and your neck relief video. Thank you! After correcting the relief and lowering the action the guitar sounds great and is much more playable. The whole process took me about an hour including a restringing and thorough cleaning.
Yes your correct you need to make sure you have the correct string radius before your make any adjustments to your string action. The MusicNomad KISS system is a linear process and it is very important to go through the proper steps in the proper order. here is where you can learn more about the proper flow of the setup. www.musicnomadcare.com/How-To-Advice/Setup-Hub/The-Setup-Flow/
@@shadowghst7704 The KISS flow is (mostly) the same same for both electric and acoustic guitars. However, most acoustic guitars have a fixed saddle, so in that case you set the radius of strings before the action of strings. Most fender & most non-floyd rose electric guitars will have individual-adjusted saddles, and would need to have set the action of strings first before the string radius. Hope this helps! Please refer to our setup hub here for further explanation www.musicnomadcare.com/How-To-Advice/Setup-Hub/
This Taylor doesn’t have NT neck, which means that if yes, probably the best way to reduce the string action is changing the pair of shims and consequently changing the neck angle. Otherwise the instrument lost its braking angle on the bridge and loose tone and volume as consequence. But anyway, the video quality is top and very easy to follow. Cheers.
The pick capo allows you to hold the string down on top of the 1st fret with just enough tension and is easy to slip in without worrying about where it sits on the fret and how much tension is on it. Yes, you can use a regular capo but you need to make sure it is holding down the string directly on top of the 1st fret using the least amount of tension otherwise you will get an inaccurate reading.
I must say this is the first time I've ever seen 12 fret action height taken while pressing down at the 1st fret. Industry standard measurements (as far as I know - and I've been playing for 34 years) are taken from open/unfretted strings, following truss rod and nut slot adjustments (in that order, and if needed). Using your method, the resulting normal/open-string action will obviously be higher as soon as the pick/capo is removed, and therefore not coincide with those numbers (0.090 & 0.075), which I more or less agree with to be proper height, but again, on opened and not fretted strings.
We realize there are many different opinions and ways to setup a instrument, plus these can be dialed in more for the type of player and playing style. In the KISS method it is a linear process all based off the proper flow so you don't have to go backwards and redo steps. The reason why you pick capo at the 1st fret is because it is a fixed point because your nut slot heights have not been address yet. Yes you are correct when you take the pick capo out the action goes high but that is because you haven't address your nut slots. the last step of playability in the KISS flow is addressing your nut height, you may have some nut slots that are high so you will need to file them down to finish your playabilitly setup before moving on to intonation.
@@MusicNomadCare When/if you file those slots down (afterwards), you now run the risk of having your action too low, resulting in buzzing issues due to the prematurely lowered (and now useless) saddle - hence the reasoning behind the strict order of steps: 1- truss rod 2- nut slots 3- saddle. Anyways, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. Btw, I have the same Nomad neck cradle ;-).
We realize there are many different opinions and ways to setup a instrument, In the KISS method the nut heights are not a valid fixed point to start your setup measurements because they may not be an accurate height to start. The first fret is a fixed position that does not change so basing all your measurements and adjusting off the first fret allows you to be perfectly setup to address your nut slots. Again if you need to lower your nut slot your not running the risk of having your action too low because your adjusted you action based off the fixed point at the 1st fret. If you would like to get more information on the KISS method please feel free to email our guitar tech at tech@musicnomad.com
@@MusicNomadCare so are you then saying your recommended strings action guidelines on the height measurement tool are based upon measurements with the strings capoed at the first fret?
Good morning bro I liked your video you give good tips on how to calibrate the guitar, but take me out of a doubt, I have read in some forums that say that a good calibration of the instrument (acoustic guitar) is not the one that is done in 30 minutes or 1 hour, but it is necessary to do the job at least 2 days for the wood to rest and get used to the tension that is being given if you must file either the capo as the bone of the bridge. What do you think about this?
I assume the reason why the treble side was lower than expected is because the saddle is already angled down slightly at the treble side to account for this difference
Thank you for the informative video. What does the pick capo do that a normal capo wouldn't do in terms of bringing the string down to the top of the first fret?
The pick capo allows you to hold the string down on top of the 1st fret with just enough tension and is easy to slip in without worrying about where it sits on the fret and how much tension is on it. Yes, you can use a regular capo but you need to make sure it is holding down the string directly on top of the 1st fret using the least amount of tension otherwise you will get an inaccurate reading.
@@MusicNomadCare why would you want to take your twelfth fret measurement with the string depressed at the first fret? Every other video I've seen of measuring string height measures both distance between fret and string at the first and 12th fret...but I've never seen anyone do what you did here. I came to see if there was an easy non-machine way to grind the saddle. Thanks.
In the KISS method, you fret at the 1st fret while measuring your string action because it is a fixed height and we haven't addressed the nut slot yet. The KISS method is all about the linear flow so it’s important to follow the proper flow which will make more sense understanding the KISS method. In the video at the 5:05 mark you will hear Geoff address the way to lower your saddle at home. You will want to use 150 grit sandpaper on a flat surface. Go back to that mark and listen carefully.
Once you mark the amounts you need to take off on each side, you make the bottom surface flat at that angle. If you can reach out to us at info@musicnomad.com we can discuss your specific instrument needs further. Thank you!
So if you follow the KISS procedure to completion and then you adjust the string height at the nut won’t this nut height adjustment change the action at the 12th fret? Because if you determine that you need to file the nut to make the low Estring lower then common sense would dictate that the overall string height would be lower from the nut all the way to the saddle.
In the KISS flow, string height comes before nut height. The measurements we have are based on using the pick capo at the first fret. Since the nut has not been addressed yet you would be using a height reference point that could be off. The first fret is a fixed height to adjust from.
Before measuring the string action, do you need to hold the string at the 1st fret? Because I saw other luthier just measure it directly at 12th in open string position. Which one is the correct method? Thank you
We realize and respect there are many different opinions when it comes to setting up a guitar but in the KEEP IT SIMPLE SETUP flow, string height comes before nut height. The measurements we have are based on using the pick capo at the first fret. Since the nut has not been addressed yet you would be using a height reference point that could be off. The first fret is a fixed height to adjust from.
Thank you! Very helpful. Why do you fret the 1st fret when measuring the action height on 12th? Would that cause the measurement to be smaller than the actual height?
Glad it was helpful! The measurements we have are based on using the pick capo at the first fret. Since the nut has not been addressed yet you would be using a height reference point that could be off. The first fret is a fixed height to adjust from.
You will still have a straight line because your removing material on 1 side that is too high.When you measure and find you need to remove material you will draw a line from treble side to bass side and that line should be flat even though you only need to take material off on 1 side the final result will be flat by removing that material on the 1 side and keeping the straight line, that is why it is important to drawing/spec out your line and how much material you're shaving off. Due to the complexity of lowering the action of an acoustic guitar saddle, we recommend bringing it to an experience shop. Geoff scored a line on each side of the saddle, with the years of his experience he is able to change his pressure based off of feel and experience. That is the reason why we recommend taking it to an experience guitar repair shop if you do not feel comfortable doing this process
This is so informative. I feel confident to setup a six string. I'm going to need to set up a Fender 12 string acoustic which for sure will have high action. Do I just do the same steps but in pairs? The nut will be cut different for the pairs?
Is it normal for a new acoustic guitar to have a saddle filed down to almost no break on the high e string? Did the set up guy do it wrong? The guitar is a Gibson J45 Custom. Very informative video
Would you suggest keeping the saddle against right angled block of wood to keep the saddle perfectly perpendicular to the sand paper or is such a step unnecessary? Thanks
Hello thank you for the video but I have a question. When you sanded the saddle you were holding it flat against the sand paper but how did you take off more material on the bass than the treble side if you were holding the saddle flat? Thank you so much
Due to the complexity of lowering the action of an acoustic guitar saddle, we recommend bringing it to an experience shop. Geoff scored a line on each side of the saddle, with the years of his experience he is able to change his pressure based off of feel and experience. That is the reason why we recommend taking it to an experience guitar repair shop if you do not feel comfortable doing this process
You will still have a straight line because your removing material on 1 side that is too high.When you measure and find you need to remove material you will draw a line from treble side to bass side and that line should be flat even though you only need to take material off on 1 side the final result will be flat by removing that material on the 1 side and keeping the straight line, that is why it is important to drawing/spec out your line and how much material your shaving off.
I thought he was taking material off the bottom of the saddle evenly until reaching the marks he made. I don't think he took it off the top of the saddle. Am I wrong?
Yes, this is short video on 1 step of the setup flow. Truss rod is the 1st step of the flow. check out the proper flow here www.musicnomadcare.com/How-To-Advice/Setup-Hub/The-Setup-Flow/
@@MusicNomadCareHey dude! I noticed that you referenced the KISS flow chart, but isn’t that for electric guitars? Isn’t the flow different for acoustics?
Most channels and guitar forums say you’re not supposed to put a capo on the 1st Fret when measuring string height. Is this unique to your gauge? What’s the right way to do it?
We respect the different ways manufacturers and repair techs approach neck relief. With Master Guitar Tech Geoff Luttrell along with other top repair techs we developed our KISS method using the 1st and 12th fret and measuring at the 6th fret to accommodate most all guitars using a common measurement. Feel free to reach out to tech@musicnomad.com and we'd be happy to discuss our process in further detail with you. Thanks!
@@MusicNomadCare thank you I appreciate the response. I wasn’t referring to the neck relief. I meant measuring the guitar string height at the 12 Fret. Is your gage designed to take into account the capo on the first fret? Since most other people simply measure the height at the 12th fret with no capo. Thanks
@@letsridehard Mate it doesn't really matter, These people need to sell you their own unique tool, so the came up with the starting point which is the first fret. Since the difference really matters and the nut slot actually account the fret height plus half of a measurement of the specific exact string plus your desired action measured on high and low E strings on the 1st fret, they really don't care how much material you are going to strip. You can buy a new bridge blank anyway, or take your guitar to luthier which this fella in the video suggested you to do, so don't bother... There is a method that suggest you can strip the material of the acoustic bridge. Before doing that, you need to make sure that you've set the correct relief, each specific brand has it's own factory measument of that. After adjusting the bridge you go and correct the nut depth, which can be calculated by summarizing all the three - 1st fret height on each string (if it is not equal - you take the highest measurement), half of the string diameter, and the action you want to set in the end on the first fret of each string proportionally. Then you slot the nut with the curve with more material on the bass side and gradually less material on the treble side. Keep in mind that your bridge has to have the same shared fingerboard radius. There are various methods and the are all connected to the nut filing in the end...
I'm not understanding how you remove different amounts of material from the bass and treble side without a slant, and yet keep it level if there is a piazzo element under the saddle....Thank you
You will still have a straight line because your removing material on 1 side that is too high.When you measure and find you need to remove material you will draw a line from treble side to bass side and that line should be flat even though you only need to take material off on 1 side the final result will be flat by removing that material on the 1 side and keeping the straight line, that is why it is important to drawing/spec out your line and how much material your shaving off.
The pick capo allows you to hold the string down on top of the 1st fret with just enough tension and is easy to slip in without worrying about where it sits on the fret and how much tension is on it. Yes, you can use a regular capo but you need to make sure it is holding down the string directly on top of the 1st fret using the least amount of tension otherwise you will get an inaccurate reading.
What is the minimum projection of the saddle above the bridge ? On my guitar, I calculated that there would be about 1/32 " left after adjustment. Another question is how much projection should be on a new guitar. Mine was pretty low when I bought it .
here is a link to all our tools and gauges so you can see the pricing. You can buy online at Sweetwater, American Musical Supply, Musicians Friend, Amazon. we also have a dealer locator on our website that you can enter your zip code in and it will bring up all the local dealer near you that carry MusicNomad products. If your international we also have a page that list all the countries we are selling in and our distributors you can reach out to and get help finding MusicNomad products in your country www.musicnomadcare.com/Products/Guitar-Setup-Tools/ www.musicnomadcare.com/Where-to-Buy/Buy-Now-Find-USA-Store/ www.musicnomadcare.com/Where-to-Buy/Find-International-Dealer/
What advice do you have if the measurement setup is currently correct but it’s still a micro measure to high. In this instance it’s a classical guitar 4 and 3 at the 12th which is standard but simply is too high on some hand made guitars
Should I whip out the saddle and improvise some shaving off with some fine grit? I’ve never done it before and wonder how to keep the bottom dead straight and true
I have a Martin 000-28. Does the measurement at the 12th fret still apply, since it's shorter scale length guitar (as if its always in first fret capo).
In the flow, string height comes before nut height. The measurements we have are based on using the pick capo at the first fret. Since the nut has not been addressed yet you would be using a height reference point that could be off. The first fret is a fixed height to adjust from.
Does anyone know the string action measurement on Al Dimeola's acoustic guitars ? Also, why don't we remove material from the nut as well when adjusting action? I would think that would help equalize things. Thank you!
You should check out this video on the full process using the KISS method on an Acoustic Guitar, it will help understand the proper flow. th-cam.com/video/un7JPdb5GAg/w-d-xo.html You use the pick capo to hold the E strings down at the first fret because the first fret is a fixed reference point for making the truss rod adjustment and string height adjustment. The measurements labeled on the gauges are based off the fixed-point reference of the first fret you should use the most common specs for your Acoustic. Holding down the string at the first fret with the Pick Capo allows you to make an accurate adjustment following the KISS methods linear flow. In the flow you have not yet addressed your nut slot height which makes it a nonvalid reference point. Adjusting the nut slot height is the last step in the playability part of the setup.
@MusicNomad Equipment Care Thank you for all the valuable information! I watched the video you suggested and understand better the linear flow you referred to. Appreciate it.
why is it then TAYLOR TECH SUPPORT told me never touch the saddle on a taylor he said for action only use a shim kit from Taylor and problem with that is ONLY a certified Taylor tech can order shim kit ! that why i went back to martin guitars ! he said the expression system piezo are on the side not underneath , he said sanding down the saddle takes away from the wall height which can effect the tone ! before i knew that , all the Taylors acoustics i did that to developed an annoying squelching kind of sound on my G string on both my 214E Deluxe and my 254 E 12 string ! can you clarify for me ?
HI i have a yamaha acoustic guitar but the tone it provides is aufle i have tried different sets of strings but cant get a good sound from it can you help thank you Rone.
My acoustic guitar is a Yamaha LJ6 Placing a pick wedged at the first fret of G, B, e strings my high e string at the 12th fret measures .8 inches and 2.0 millimeters Placing a pick wedged at the first fret of low E, A, D strings my low E string at the 12th fret measures 1.30 inches and 2.75 millimeters I have fret buzz on my low E, A, and D strings. The low E string being the worse buzz and the A and D lesser. I have loosened the truss rod by turning it counter clockwise. This hasn't had any affect regarding the fret buzz. Playing the string open there isn't fret buzz. When I tune my guitar with an electronic tuner the low E string fretted at the first fret the tuner indicates an F at the third fret the G is sharp and up to and including the 12th fret the notes are sharp. The same for the 5th (A) string. Any thoughts on correcting low strings fret buzz? Yamaha acoustic guitar specifications Solid Tops, FG, L series, APX/CPX700/900 1st String: 1.8mm / .07087 inches (4/64th) 6th String: 2.6mm / .10236 inches (6/64th)
Does the saddle need to be just flat or level as well? If level, How is it possible to take more material off one side of the saddle than the other and maintain a perfectly flat/level saddle?
You will still have a straight line because your removing material on 1 side that is too high. When you measure and find you need to remove material you will draw a line from treble side to bass side and that line should be flat even though you only need to take material off on 1 side the final result will be flat by removing that material on the 1 side and keeping the straight line, that is why it is important to drawing/spec out your line and how much material you're shaving off. Due to the complexity of lowering the action of an acoustic guitar saddle, we recommend bringing it to an experience shop. Geoff scored a line on each side of the saddle, with the years of his experience he is able to change his pressure based off of feel and experience. That is the reason why we recommend taking it to an experience guitar repair shop if you do not feel comfortable doing this process any further questions please email our guitar tech at tech@musicnomad.com
@@MusicNomadCare how come in the video the action at the 12th fret is measured with the strings held down at the 1st fret? I’ve seen everyone else measure without holding down the strings at the 1st fret
In the KISS method you use the pick capo to hold the E strings down at the first fret because the first fret is a fixed reference point for making the truss rod adjustment and string height adjustment. The measurements labeled on the gauges are based off the fixed-point reference of the first fret. Holding down the string at the first fret with the Pick Capo allows you to make an accurate adjustment following the KISS methods linear flow. In the flow you have not yet addressed your nut slot height which makes it a nonvalid reference point. Adjusting the nut slot height is the last step in the playability part of the setup. Following the KISS linear flow allows you to setup your guitar to play and sound great without having to go back and repeat steps.
Why are you fretting the 6th string at the 1st fret? Don't you want to read the string height at the 12 fret with the 6th string resting in its nut slot? Won't this give you a reading .010-.020 lower than actual (the height of the 6th string off the 1st fret?
In the flow, string height comes before nut height. The measurements we have are based on using the pick capo at the first fret. Since the nut has not been addressed yet you would be using a height reference point that could be off. The first fret is a fixed height to adjust from.
This method doesn't work for Ovation CP-100 piezo for acoustic electric guitars. You'll end up ruining the piezo pickup. The approach is more like filing a nut slot for the compensated saddle. The CP-100 has a steel tray that holds a plastic retainer that spaces the ceramic piezo pieces for the contact necessary for the pickup to work properly. The compensated saddle has a shaped area that the steel tray fits. Taking material off the bottom and the steel tray spreads wider and doesn't work properly. The plastic retainer will become damaged and possibly damage the ceramic pieces, chipping them under the load of the strings.
Why wouldnt you change the neck shims in a Taylor and keep your saddle height. Maybe this was just for demonstration, or maybe you can enlighten me, also wondered about neck releif and the importance of that in all this
The Taylor bolt on neck using shims design are made to make a neck reset non invasive, Check out our full setup video for a Taylor guitar which will go through the entire setup process th-cam.com/video/un7JPdb5GAg/w-d-xo.html.
@@MusicNomadCare the NT neck design also alows you to make fine adjustments to the neck angle so can customize your action on your guitar in ten thou increments
I have heard that you need 1/2" from the bottom of the strings to the top of sound board measured just in front of bridge. Lowering the action can, as it has on mine, lower that distancebelow 1/2". How does that effect the tone? I have a 2020 Taylor so changing neck angle and height can be done with shims, not too difficult. But to have the straightedge laying on the frets just above the bridge, base of the saddle, is perfect. Yet my strings are too close to the sound board. Can a neck angle fix that so the straight edge lines up and the distance between the strings and sound board are 1/2"? What does the strings being lower than a 1/2" do to the tone? I know that I hit the pick guard more with my pick and am having to learn to be more precise with that, but am mainly interested in the tonal issues, if any, and if it can be fixed or do I need to except that I have to have higher action than I like making being able to play much harder. I am not a hard hitter. Medium usually. Yet I can hit them pretty hard with no buzz anywhere and my action at the 12th is between 50 and 60 thousandths. My frets are leveled perfectly with precision tools which allows me to have lower action with no buzz. Just curious how important and what exactly happens when the strings are too close to the board. And again if it is possible to have that low of action and all the measurements line up. If I raise the neck, I have to raise the saddle and will have the same action, but the straightedge on the frets will sit the same distance off the bridge, or above the base of the saddle. I hope that all makes sense. Lol. Thanks in advance.
@@MusicNomadCare I can relate to that. I was wondering more about the the importance of the string distance to the top of the soundboard. In your opinion, should that be maintained at .5"? Does lowering that distance change the tone?
Hello, can you tell me the distance in milimeters? Guess you said 90/1000 and 75/1000 of an inch, should I just calculate how many milimeters is that, or is there any other thing to know? Thanks!
You can do a google conversion to millimeters. This video measurements are specific to the Taylor Guitar you see if the video. For your specific instruments needs and clarification email our tech at tech@musicnomad.com
We just want to make sure you understand that those measurements are specific to the setup for the Taylor Guitar in the video and may not be your exact measurements for you specific instrument. For more clarification email us at tech@musicnomad.com
@@MusicNomadCare Thanks to the video, I took my Yamaha to the luthier today, actually, to lower the action. Thought it was a better move than doing it myself. I appreciate your work here.
The pick capo we offer comes with our Truss Rod Gague, I'll put the direct link below. Thank you. www.musicnomadcare.com/Products/Guitar-Setup-Tools/Truss-Rod-Gauge/
Shimming the neck is not apart of the KISS method. The KISS method allows you to setup your instrument with the most common measurement and find out what your instrument needs for the setup. after you have gone through the KISS method and you feel your neck needs to be shimmed we recommend you take it to a qualified repaired shop. Email our tech at tech@musicnomad.com for more clarification.
You use the pick capo at the first fret because the first fret is a fixed reference point for making the truss rod adjustment and string height adjustment. The Pick Capo allows you to make an accurate adjustment following the KISS methods linear flow. In the flow you have not yet addressed your nut slot height which makes it a nonvalid reference point. Adjusting the nut slot height is the last step in the playability part of the setup. Following the KISS linear flow allows you to setup your guitar to play and sound great without having to go back and repeat steps.
@@MusicNomadCare Since you are using the pick capo at fret one this will make your recommended string height proportionally measurements different from what Martin, and other Acoustic Guitar manufacturers recommend.
Our Collaboration with Master Guitar Tech Geoff Luttrell and his 20+ years, two high volume guitar shops setting up 10,000 plus guitars, teaching 100's of students in his setup workshops, in house Plek experience, plus we asked a handful of other top repair shops the most common setup measurements and this was the unanimous measurements for a a great sounding and playing guitar. We realize there are many different opinions plus these can dialed in more for the type of player and playing style. As most repair shops know most guitars come out of the factory way higher so they don't buzz and both new and old guitars need to be setup periodically for the best playability and sound.
Confused.. If you have 60 thow to take off on the bass side and 50 thow on the treble.. those are obviously different amounts. If you sand the saddle square one of these is still going to be off..??
You will still have a straight line because your removing material on 1 side that is too high. When you measure and find you need to remove material you will draw a line from treble side to bass side and that line should be flat, even though you only need to take material off on 1 side the final result will be flat by removing that material on the 1 side and keeping the straight line, that is why it is important to drawing/spec out your line and how much material your shaving off.
@MusicNomad Equipment Care I agree if you are only using one line but if you have a notch at .0060 and a different one at .0050 and you join those two notches you are not going to have a "straight line".. You are going to have a line with a .0010 slant..
The .0010 slant will be on the top of the saddle if you properly sanded your saddle flat. Due to the complexity of lowering the action of an acoustic guitar saddle, we recommend bringing it to an experience shop. Geoff scored a line on each side of the saddle, with the years of his experience he is able to change his pressure based off of feel and experience. That is the reason why we recommend taking it to an experience guitar repair shop if you do not feel comfortable doing this process
@@garethmurphy8235 Some saddles already have a slant when their made and placed into the bridge. It goes from highest point on the 6th string to the lowest point of the 1st string. When you sand only the flat side and make sure it is on a flat surface and regular sanding it lowers the action uniformly over the 6 strings, maintaining the slant on the saddle. Om guessing this saddle is level on the top and bottom so he is sanding in the slant? That's the only thing that makes sense to me unless both sides end up slanted and you just make sure the angle from high to low is flat.
@RustyGuy Well, this makes sense... I guess if you want to lower one side more than the other, then sanding in a .0010 slant would definitely achieve that, or if you start with a slant.... and sand it "flat" you would also still lower one side differently than the other.. as you said... I guess maybe that is the goal in this case..
Can’t u just shave it without marking it? I already shaved a little bit but it’s not my desired height. I don’t have any tools to measure so I’ll shave little by little.
If you do not have a measuring tool to spec out the amount of material you should remove. Keep going with how you're doing it, shaving a little off at a time. Always keep in mind you can shave more material off but you cant add the material back
From our understanding if you do need to shave down the saddle slightly this does not void your warranty but we always recommend to full understand your warranty before making adjustments. A normal setup process should not void the warranty, the only way to lower your action on the bridge is to sand down the bottom of the saddle and this is a standard procedure on acoustic guitar but again please double check with your manufacture.
removing material from a saddle bottom is NOT the same as lowering the 2 wooden uprights that the saddle itself slips in snugly. The 2 wooden pieces can have their height lowered as long as the saddle has enough support and has its bottom removed to make a lower saddle height for 6 strings to pass over. How tall must the 2 uprights be on a classical guitar to ensure the saddle itself is supported well and tall enough ?
Using American system is just so exclusive. Like 99% of us are the rest of the world. America is not the whole world. Please use the intuitive metric system. Don't you want outside America to learn too? It's like we need a college degree to understand your measurement language.
All of the MusicNomad Gauges and our instructional booklet come in metric also so when performing the setup you have the inches and metric together. We are a company in America so yes the video is using SAE measurements but we always include metric (we engrave it on every gauge) on our products so they are universal for the world. I understand your frustration but hope this explanation helps.
You can always use google conversion to convert the SAE to Metrics.Our String Action Gauges does come with a metric side and has a conversion chart on it. Our gauges are labeled to make it easy to know which size to use.
A Gold Level Taylor Tech told me you don't adjust the action with saddle adjustments, you need a neck reset which is simple, but only techs can get the shims.
if the bottom of the saddle is straight why not just shave the bottom of saddle equally? if anyone could answer this question it would be much appreciated.
Measure your string height with the string action gauge on the high E and low E string and determine how much needs come off the bass side and how much needs to come off the treble side to achieve the string action desired. Example, if the treble side and bass side are both 20 thousands of an inch too high, you would then sand down the same on both sides so it would be the same bottom but lower to spec. If the treble side is 20 thousand too high and the bass side is 40 thousands to high by sanding even you lower the issue. The bass side would be 20 thousands too high if you use the treble side measurement. If you sand to the measurement of the bass side your saddle will be too low on the treble side. By sanding an even bottom of the saddle using the Low E measurement and High E measurement as your reference points you will have set your action height properly. Please refer to the video where Geoff explains this process in detail.
Thanks, just ordered the 3 way feeler gauge and the string action gauge ruler. I just received the 5mm truss rod adjustment for my new Martin guitar.
Having done all my electric setups by feel and eye, it's a good time to use gauges this time around as to reduce the potential of error...basically set up ALL my guitars properly with measuring tools
Thanks for explaining why we have to double the amount we have to sand down on the saddle.
I really like the videos with this guy. Not only is he a wizard but he does a great job of breaking everything down and making it easy to understand.
Best overview of how to do this that I have seen. Crystal clear explanation with precision measuring. Thanks
I've watched a lot of videos on this and yours is probably the most clear, helpful, and concise tutorial. Thank you!
My luthier moved out of state so i bought the musicnomad kit and watched this and your neck relief video. Thank you!
After correcting the relief and lowering the action the guitar sounds great and is much more playable. The whole process took me about an hour including a restringing and thorough cleaning.
Great to hear!
Good explanation and using the capo to secure the strings is a really useful tip. I’m confident enough to do this job now, thank you.
Always check your bridge to make sure the previous owner hasn't stacked a bunch of shims in there, could be the reason the action was so high.
Good, clear instruction. One thing to note IMO is this instruction applies only to a saddle that already has the correct radius on top.
Yes your correct you need to make sure you have the correct string radius before your make any adjustments to your string action. The MusicNomad KISS system is a linear process and it is very important to go through the proper steps in the proper order. here is where you can learn more about the proper flow of the setup. www.musicnomadcare.com/How-To-Advice/Setup-Hub/The-Setup-Flow/
@@MusicNomadCareHey Geoff, is the KISS flow the same for both electric and acoustic guitars? I mean, they must be different..
@@shadowghst7704 The KISS flow is (mostly) the same same for both electric and acoustic guitars. However, most acoustic guitars have a fixed saddle, so in that case you set the radius of strings before the action of strings. Most fender & most non-floyd rose electric guitars will have individual-adjusted saddles, and would need to have set the action of strings first before the string radius. Hope this helps!
Please refer to our setup hub here for further explanation www.musicnomadcare.com/How-To-Advice/Setup-Hub/
Very detailed. Well done. I need to get one of those gauges you're using.
Phil
This Taylor doesn’t have NT neck, which means that if yes, probably the best way to reduce the string action is changing the pair of shims and consequently changing the neck angle. Otherwise the instrument lost its braking angle on the bridge and loose tone and volume as consequence. But anyway, the video quality is top and very easy to follow. Cheers.
I have no idea what you just typed
This was spectacular, as was your truss rod adjustment video. Just ordered the guages from on of your dealers. Thanks a bunch
could have missed it, but why use a pick to fret the strings instead of using capo when measuring the string height?
The pick capo allows you to hold the string down on top of the 1st fret with just enough tension and is easy to slip in without worrying about where it sits on the fret and how much tension is on it. Yes, you can use a regular capo but you need to make sure it is holding down the string directly on top of the 1st fret using the least amount of tension otherwise you will get an inaccurate reading.
Very helpful. Thanks for sharing.
I must say this is the first time I've ever seen 12 fret action height taken while pressing down at the 1st fret. Industry standard measurements (as far as I know - and I've been playing for 34 years) are taken from open/unfretted strings, following truss rod and nut slot adjustments (in that order, and if needed). Using your method, the resulting normal/open-string action will obviously be higher as soon as the pick/capo is removed, and therefore not coincide with those numbers (0.090 & 0.075), which I more or less agree with to be proper height, but again, on opened and not fretted strings.
We realize there are many different opinions and ways to setup a instrument, plus these can be dialed in more for the type of player and playing style. In the KISS method it is a linear process all based off the proper flow so you don't have to go backwards and redo steps. The reason why you pick capo at the 1st fret is because it is a fixed point because your nut slot heights have not been address yet. Yes you are correct when you take the pick capo out the action goes high but that is because you haven't address your nut slots. the last step of playability in the KISS flow is addressing your nut height, you may have some nut slots that are high so you will need to file them down to finish your playabilitly setup before moving on to intonation.
@@MusicNomadCare When/if you file those slots down (afterwards), you now run the risk of having your action too low, resulting in buzzing issues due to the prematurely lowered (and now useless) saddle - hence the reasoning behind the strict order of steps: 1- truss rod 2- nut slots 3- saddle. Anyways, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. Btw, I have the same Nomad neck cradle ;-).
We realize there are many different opinions and ways to setup a instrument, In the KISS method the nut heights are not a valid fixed point to start your setup measurements because they may not be an accurate height to start. The first fret is a fixed position that does not change so basing all your measurements and adjusting off the first fret allows you to be perfectly setup to address your nut slots. Again if you need to lower your nut slot your not running the risk of having your action too low because your adjusted you action based off the fixed point at the 1st fret. If you would like to get more information on the KISS method please feel free to email our guitar tech at tech@musicnomad.com
@@MusicNomadCare so are you then saying your recommended strings action guidelines on the height measurement tool are based upon measurements with the strings capoed at the first fret?
Yes you are correct
What would you think about getting a new saddle to lower the action and switching back to the original for change of seasons.
Good morning bro I liked your video you give good tips on how to calibrate the guitar, but take me out of a doubt, I have read in some forums that say that a good calibration of the instrument (acoustic guitar) is not the one that is done in 30 minutes or 1 hour, but it is necessary to do the job at least 2 days for the wood to rest and get used to the tension that is being given if you must file either the capo as the bone of the bridge. What do you think about this?
How do you keep the bottom of the saddle flat if you need to shave off different amounts for the low E vs the high E?
Please email tech@musicnomad.com to help assist you with your specific guitar.
I assume the reason why the treble side was lower than expected is because the saddle is already angled down slightly at the treble side to account for this difference
Thank you for the informative video. What does the pick capo do that a normal capo wouldn't do in terms of bringing the string down to the top of the first fret?
The pick capo allows you to hold the string down on top of the 1st fret with just enough tension and is easy to slip in without worrying about where it sits on the fret and how much tension is on it. Yes, you can use a regular capo but you need to make sure it is holding down the string directly on top of the 1st fret using the least amount of tension otherwise you will get an inaccurate reading.
@@MusicNomadCare why would you want to take your twelfth fret measurement with the string depressed at the first fret? Every other video I've seen of measuring string height measures both distance between fret and string at the first and 12th fret...but I've never seen anyone do what you did here.
I came to see if there was an easy non-machine way to grind the saddle. Thanks.
In the KISS method, you fret at the 1st fret while measuring your string action because it is a fixed height and we haven't addressed the nut slot yet. The KISS method is all about the linear flow so it’s important to follow the proper flow which will make more sense understanding the KISS method. In the video at the 5:05 mark you will hear Geoff address the way to lower your saddle at home. You will want to use 150 grit sandpaper on a flat surface. Go back to that mark and listen carefully.
Great lesson. Just one question please, how do you get the saddle flat if you are taking different amounts off each end? Thanks
Once you mark the amounts you need to take off on each side, you make the bottom surface flat at that angle. If you can reach out to us at info@musicnomad.com we can discuss your specific instrument needs further. Thank you!
So if you follow the KISS procedure to completion and then you adjust the string height at the nut won’t this nut height adjustment change the action at the 12th fret? Because if you determine that you need to file the nut to make the low Estring lower then common sense would dictate that the overall string height would be lower from the nut all the way to the saddle.
In the KISS flow, string height comes before nut height. The measurements we have are based on using the pick capo at the first fret. Since the nut has not been addressed yet you would be using a height reference point that could be off. The first fret is a fixed height to adjust from.
Very precise....the best explanation.........thank you...!!!!
Glad it was helpful!
Very helpful video.
Before measuring the string action, do you need to hold the string at the 1st fret? Because I saw other luthier just measure it directly at 12th in open string position. Which one is the correct method? Thank you
We realize and respect there are many different opinions when it comes to setting up a guitar but in the KEEP IT SIMPLE SETUP flow, string height comes before nut height. The measurements we have are based on using the pick capo at the first fret. Since the nut has not been addressed yet you would be using a height reference point that could be off. The first fret is a fixed height to adjust from.
What belt/disc sander do you guys recommend? I have a 4x36” from harbor freight but I want to upgrade.
Thank you! Very helpful. Why do you fret the 1st fret when measuring the action height on 12th? Would that cause the measurement to be smaller than the actual height?
Glad it was helpful! The measurements we have are based on using the pick capo at the first fret. Since the nut has not been addressed yet you would be using a height reference point that could be off. The first fret is a fixed height to adjust from.
thanks for the good video. If you shave more on one side of the saddle than the other, how does the saddle stay balanced/flat when put it back in?
You will still have a straight line because your removing material on 1 side that is too high.When you measure and find you need to remove material you will draw a line from treble side to bass side and that line should be flat even though you only need to take material off on 1 side the final result will be flat by removing that material on the 1 side and keeping the straight line, that is why it is important to drawing/spec out your line and how much material you're shaving off.
Due to the complexity of lowering the action of an acoustic guitar saddle, we recommend bringing it to an experience shop. Geoff scored a line on each side of the saddle, with the years of his experience he is able to change his pressure based off of feel and experience. That is the reason why we recommend taking it to an experience guitar repair shop if you do not feel comfortable doing this process
This is so informative. I feel confident to setup a six string. I'm going to need to set up a Fender 12 string acoustic which for sure will have high action. Do I just do the same steps but in pairs? The nut will be cut different for the pairs?
All the steps would be the same as an acoustic guitar setup. The octave strings on the 12-string would use the .016 gauge for nut height.
@@MusicNomadCare Thank you
Is it normal for a new acoustic guitar to have a saddle filed down to almost no break on the high e string? Did the set up guy do it wrong? The guitar is a Gibson J45 Custom. Very informative video
You should reach out to the manufacture of the instrument or the last person who performed your setup
Would you suggest keeping the saddle against right angled block of wood to keep the saddle perfectly perpendicular to the sand paper or is such a step unnecessary? Thanks
That step is not needed but you can do it that way if you are more comfortable performing that task.
Hello thank you for the video but I have a question. When you sanded the saddle you were holding it flat against the sand paper but how did you take off more material on the bass than the treble side if you were holding the saddle flat? Thank you so much
Due to the complexity of lowering the action of an acoustic guitar saddle, we recommend bringing it to an experience shop. Geoff scored a line on each side of the saddle, with the years of his experience he is able to change his pressure based off of feel and experience. That is the reason why we recommend taking it to an experience guitar repair shop if you do not feel comfortable doing this process
@@MusicNomadCare thank you so much I appreciate the response. Im trying to learn as much as I can from your videos.
If you take off more on the bass side and less on the treble side or vice versa, wouldn't the bottom of the saddle not be level?
You will still have a straight line because your removing material on 1 side that is too high.When you measure and find you need to remove material you will draw a line from treble side to bass side and that line should be flat even though you only need to take material off on 1 side the final result will be flat by removing that material on the 1 side and keeping the straight line, that is why it is important to drawing/spec out your line and how much material your shaving off.
I thought he was taking material off the bottom of the saddle evenly until reaching the marks he made. I don't think he took it off the top of the saddle. Am I wrong?
Are you adjusting the relief in the neck first? Nice video, btw.
Yes, this is short video on 1 step of the setup flow. Truss rod is the 1st step of the flow. check out the proper flow here www.musicnomadcare.com/How-To-Advice/Setup-Hub/The-Setup-Flow/
@@MusicNomadCareHey dude! I noticed that you referenced the KISS flow chart, but isn’t that for electric guitars? Isn’t the flow different for acoustics?
Most channels and guitar forums say you’re not supposed to put a capo on the 1st Fret when measuring string height.
Is this unique to your gauge? What’s the right way to do it?
We respect the different ways manufacturers and repair techs approach neck relief. With Master Guitar Tech Geoff Luttrell along with other top repair techs we developed our KISS method using the 1st and 12th fret and measuring at the 6th fret to accommodate most all guitars using a common measurement. Feel free to reach out to tech@musicnomad.com and we'd be happy to discuss our process in further detail with you. Thanks!
@@MusicNomadCare thank you I appreciate the response. I wasn’t referring to the neck relief. I meant measuring the guitar string height at the 12 Fret.
Is your gage designed to take into account the capo on the first fret? Since most other people simply measure the height at the 12th fret with no capo. Thanks
@@letsridehard Mate it doesn't really matter, These people need to sell you their own unique tool, so the came up with the starting point which is the first fret. Since the difference really matters and the nut slot actually account the fret height plus half of a measurement of the specific exact string plus your desired action measured on high and low E strings on the 1st fret, they really don't care how much material you are going to strip. You can buy a new bridge blank anyway, or take your guitar to luthier which this fella in the video suggested you to do, so don't bother...
There is a method that suggest you can strip the material of the acoustic bridge. Before doing that, you need to make sure that you've set the correct relief, each specific brand has it's own factory measument of that. After adjusting the bridge you go and correct the nut depth, which can be calculated by summarizing all the three - 1st fret height on each string (if it is not equal - you take the highest measurement), half of the string diameter, and the action you want to set in the end on the first fret of each string proportionally. Then you slot the nut with the curve with more material on the bass side and gradually less material on the treble side. Keep in mind that your bridge has to have the same shared fingerboard radius. There are various methods and the are all connected to the nut filing in the end...
Do you have any videos for how to setup an acoustic bass? Or is it just the same measurements as an electric bass (relief, string height)?
Please email tech@musicnomad.com to help you with your specific instrument and questions.
@@MusicNomadCare Thank you. I will do that. 🙂👍
How about a Taylor T5z?
What are the factory recommended limits?
We recommend to reach out to Taylor regarding their recommendation, our recommendations are the most common for all guitars to play and sound great!
I'm not understanding how you remove different amounts of material from the bass and treble side without a slant, and yet keep it level if there is a piazzo element under the saddle....Thank you
You will still have a straight line because your removing material on 1 side that is too high.When you measure and find you need to remove material you will draw a line from treble side to bass side and that line should be flat even though you only need to take material off on 1 side the final result will be flat by removing that material on the 1 side and keeping the straight line, that is why it is important to drawing/spec out your line and how much material your shaving off.
@@MusicNomadCare Thank you, you've given me the confidence to try it.
So on the inches side of the inches side I see .07, .08, .09, etc...when you talk about 120 thousandths of an inch is that the .12 on the gauge??
Yes, correct the .12
question instead of a flat pick to hold down string at nut area could i just capo across the strings at the nut ?
The pick capo allows you to hold the string down on top of the 1st fret with just enough tension and is easy to slip in without worrying about where it sits on the fret and how much tension is on it. Yes, you can use a regular capo but you need to make sure it is holding down the string directly on top of the 1st fret using the least amount of tension otherwise you will get an inaccurate reading.
What is the minimum projection of the saddle above the bridge ? On my guitar, I calculated that there would be about 1/32 " left after adjustment. Another question is how much projection should be on a new guitar. Mine was pretty low when I bought it .
Email tech@musicnomad.com to help with your specific question and instrument.
How do your tools and gauges cost and where can I buy them
here is a link to all our tools and gauges so you can see the pricing. You can buy online at Sweetwater, American Musical Supply, Musicians Friend, Amazon. we also have a dealer locator on our website that you can enter your zip code in and it will bring up all the local dealer near you that carry MusicNomad products. If your international we also have a page that list all the countries we are selling in and our distributors you can reach out to and get help finding MusicNomad products in your country
www.musicnomadcare.com/Products/Guitar-Setup-Tools/
www.musicnomadcare.com/Where-to-Buy/Buy-Now-Find-USA-Store/
www.musicnomadcare.com/Where-to-Buy/Find-International-Dealer/
What advice do you have if the measurement setup is currently correct but it’s still a micro measure to high. In this instance it’s a classical guitar 4 and 3 at the 12th which is standard but simply is too high on some hand made guitars
Should I whip out the saddle and improvise some shaving off with some fine grit?
I’ve never done it before and wonder how to keep the bottom dead straight and true
thank you!!
I have a Martin 000-28. Does the measurement at the 12th fret still apply, since it's shorter scale length guitar (as if its always in first fret capo).
Yes, following the KISS method you would still use the 1st and 12th fret and measure at the 6th fret.
What about a takamine because it's a split saddle ??
Thank you for reaching out. Can you email us at tech@musicnomad.com to discuss your instrument's specific needs?
you didn't explain the pick you placed at the nut before measuring the actioned once the saddle was adjusted.
In the flow, string height comes before nut height. The measurements we have are based on using the pick capo at the first fret. Since the nut has not been addressed yet you would be using a height reference point that could be off. The first fret is a fixed height to adjust from.
Does anyone know the string action measurement on Al Dimeola's acoustic guitars ? Also, why don't we remove material from the nut as well when adjusting action? I would think that would help equalize things. Thank you!
You should check out this video on the full process using the KISS method on an Acoustic Guitar, it will help understand the proper flow. th-cam.com/video/un7JPdb5GAg/w-d-xo.html
You use the pick capo to hold the E strings down at the first fret because the first fret is a fixed reference point for making the truss rod adjustment and string height adjustment. The measurements labeled on the gauges are based off the fixed-point reference of the first fret you should use the most common specs for your Acoustic. Holding down the string at the first fret with the Pick Capo allows you to make an accurate adjustment following the KISS methods linear flow. In the flow you have not yet addressed your nut slot height which makes it a nonvalid reference point. Adjusting the nut slot height is the last step in the playability part of the setup.
@MusicNomad Equipment Care Thank you for all the valuable information! I watched the video you suggested and understand better the linear flow you referred to. Appreciate it.
why is it then TAYLOR TECH SUPPORT told me never touch the saddle on a taylor he said for action only use a shim kit from Taylor and problem with that is ONLY a certified Taylor tech can order shim kit ! that why i went back to martin guitars ! he said the expression system piezo are on the side not underneath , he said sanding down the saddle takes away from the wall height which can effect the tone ! before i knew that , all the Taylors acoustics i did that to developed an annoying squelching kind of sound on my G string on both my 214E Deluxe and my 254 E 12 string ! can you clarify for me ?
I think it’s because Taylor’s have a removable neck, this is the KISS method, and on Taylor’s it’s a totally different process.
HI i have a yamaha acoustic guitar but the tone it provides is aufle i have tried different sets of strings but cant get a good sound from it can you help thank you Rone.
Please email our guitar tech at tech@musicnomad.com so he can get deeper into your sound issue.
It might just be a dud guitar. All manufacturers make them. Did you play it before you bought it. ?
My acoustic guitar is a Yamaha LJ6
Placing a pick wedged at the first fret of G, B, e strings my high e string at the 12th fret measures .8 inches and 2.0 millimeters
Placing a pick wedged at the first fret of low E, A, D strings my low E string at the 12th fret measures 1.30 inches and 2.75 millimeters
I have fret buzz on my low E, A, and D strings. The low E string being the worse buzz and the A and D lesser.
I have loosened the truss rod by turning it counter clockwise. This hasn't had any affect regarding the fret buzz. Playing the string open there isn't fret buzz.
When I tune my guitar with an electronic tuner the low E string fretted at the first fret the tuner indicates an F at the third fret the G is sharp and up to and including the 12th fret the notes are sharp. The same for the 5th (A) string.
Any thoughts on correcting low strings fret buzz?
Yamaha acoustic guitar specifications
Solid Tops, FG, L series, APX/CPX700/900
1st String: 1.8mm / .07087 inches (4/64th)
6th String: 2.6mm / .10236 inches (6/64th)
Can you email our guitar tech to help you out. His email is tech@musicnomad.com
Does the saddle need to be just flat or level as well? If level, How is it possible to take more material off one side of the saddle than the other and maintain a perfectly flat/level saddle?
You will still have a straight line because your removing material on 1 side that is too high. When you measure and find you need to remove material you will draw a line from treble side to bass side and that line should be flat even though you only need to take material off on 1 side the final result will be flat by removing that material on the 1 side and keeping the straight line, that is why it is important to drawing/spec out your line and how much material you're shaving off.
Due to the complexity of lowering the action of an acoustic guitar saddle, we recommend bringing it to an experience shop. Geoff scored a line on each side of the saddle, with the years of his experience he is able to change his pressure based off of feel and experience. That is the reason why we recommend taking it to an experience guitar repair shop if you do not feel comfortable doing this process
any further questions please email our guitar tech at tech@musicnomad.com
@@MusicNomadCare thanks for the response. Just set up my Martin. Everything worked flawlessly. Thank you!
@@MusicNomadCare how come in the video the action at the 12th fret is measured with the strings held down at the 1st fret? I’ve seen everyone else measure without holding down the strings at the 1st fret
In the KISS method you use the pick capo to hold the E strings down at the first fret because the first fret is a fixed reference point for making the truss rod adjustment and string height adjustment. The measurements labeled on the gauges are based off the fixed-point reference of the first fret. Holding down the string at the first fret with the Pick Capo allows you to make an accurate adjustment following the KISS methods linear flow. In the flow you have not yet addressed your nut slot height which makes it a nonvalid reference point. Adjusting the nut slot height is the last step in the playability part of the setup. Following the KISS linear flow allows you to setup your guitar to play and sound great without having to go back and repeat steps.
@@MusicNomadCare thank you for your response and detailed explanation.
Why are you fretting the 6th string at the 1st fret? Don't you want to read the string height at the 12 fret with the 6th string resting in its nut slot? Won't this give you a reading .010-.020 lower than actual (the height of the 6th string off the 1st fret?
In the flow, string height comes before nut height. The measurements we have are based on using the pick capo at the first fret. Since the nut has not been addressed yet you would be using a height reference point that could be off. The first fret is a fixed height to adjust from.
This method doesn't work for Ovation CP-100 piezo for acoustic electric guitars. You'll end up ruining the piezo pickup. The approach is more like filing a nut slot for the compensated saddle. The CP-100 has a steel tray that holds a plastic retainer that spaces the ceramic piezo pieces for the contact necessary for the pickup to work properly. The compensated saddle has a shaped area that the steel tray fits. Taking material off the bottom and the steel tray spreads wider and doesn't work properly. The plastic retainer will become damaged and possibly damage the ceramic pieces, chipping them under the load of the strings.
Thanks for your comment. You are correct, this method will not work with that specific saddle as you can not sand down that specific saddle.
Why wouldnt you change the neck shims in a Taylor and keep your saddle height. Maybe this was just for demonstration, or maybe you can enlighten me, also wondered about neck releif and the importance of that in all this
The Taylor bolt on neck using shims design are made to make a neck reset non invasive, Check out our full setup video for a Taylor guitar which will go through the entire setup process th-cam.com/video/un7JPdb5GAg/w-d-xo.html.
@@MusicNomadCare the NT neck design also alows you to make fine adjustments to the neck angle so can customize your action on your guitar in ten thou increments
I have heard that you need 1/2" from the bottom of the strings to the top of sound board measured just in front of bridge. Lowering the action can, as it has on mine, lower that distancebelow 1/2". How does that effect the tone? I have a 2020 Taylor so changing neck angle and height can be done with shims, not too difficult. But to have the straightedge laying on the frets just above the bridge, base of the saddle, is perfect. Yet my strings are too close to the sound board. Can a neck angle fix that so the straight edge lines up and the distance between the strings and sound board are 1/2"? What does the strings being lower than a 1/2" do to the tone? I know that I hit the pick guard more with my pick and am having to learn to be more precise with that, but am mainly interested in the tonal issues, if any, and if it can be fixed or do I need to except that I have to have higher action than I like making being able to play much harder. I am not a hard hitter. Medium usually. Yet I can hit them pretty hard with no buzz anywhere and my action at the 12th is between 50 and 60 thousandths. My frets are leveled perfectly with precision tools which allows me to have lower action with no buzz. Just curious how important and what exactly happens when the strings are too close to the board. And again if it is possible to have that low of action and all the measurements line up. If I raise the neck, I have to raise the saddle and will have the same action, but the straightedge on the frets will sit the same distance off the bridge, or above the base of the saddle. I hope that all makes sense. Lol. Thanks in advance.
In the KISS method we do not address changing the neck angle. We recommend you reach out to Taylor with your questions and specific concerns on tone.
@@MusicNomadCare I can relate to that. I was wondering more about the the importance of the string distance to the top of the soundboard. In your opinion, should that be maintained at .5"? Does lowering that distance change the tone?
For your specific needs and questions email our guitar tech at tech@musicnomad.com
Hello, can you tell me the distance in milimeters? Guess you said 90/1000 and 75/1000 of an inch, should I just calculate how many milimeters is that, or is there any other thing to know? Thanks!
You can do a google conversion to millimeters. This video measurements are specific to the Taylor Guitar you see if the video. For your specific instruments needs and clarification email our tech at tech@musicnomad.com
@@MusicNomadCare As a reference, the numbers are 2,3 mm for 90/1000 inch, and 1,9 mm for the treble. :)
We just want to make sure you understand that those measurements are specific to the setup for the Taylor Guitar in the video and may not be your exact measurements for you specific instrument. For more clarification email us at tech@musicnomad.com
@@MusicNomadCare Thanks to the video, I took my Yamaha to the luthier today, actually, to lower the action. Thought it was a better move than doing it myself. I appreciate your work here.
Can't see a pick capo anywhere to buy, whatever it is.
The pick capo we offer comes with our Truss Rod Gague, I'll put the direct link below. Thank you.
www.musicnomadcare.com/Products/Guitar-Setup-Tools/Truss-Rod-Gauge/
With a zero fret guitar I don't need the pick capo do I?
Yes you will still want to pick capo because the KISS setup process and your measurements are based off of the fixed point at the 1st fret.
@@MusicNomadCare thanks for the rapid response to my question.
With a Taylor guitar to change the action height, shouldn't you start with shimming the removable neck and then alter the saddle if needed?
Shimming the neck is not apart of the KISS method. The KISS method allows you to setup your instrument with the most common measurement and find out what your instrument needs for the setup. after you have gone through the KISS method and you feel your neck needs to be shimmed we recommend you take it to a qualified repaired shop. Email our tech at tech@musicnomad.com for more clarification.
I've never seen anyone use a pick to hold down the string at the first fret. Doesn't that change the measurement?
You use the pick capo at the first fret because the first fret is a fixed reference point for making the truss rod adjustment and string height adjustment. The Pick Capo allows you to make an accurate adjustment following the KISS methods linear flow. In the flow you have not yet addressed your nut slot height which makes it a nonvalid reference point. Adjusting the nut slot height is the last step in the playability part of the setup. Following the KISS linear flow allows you to setup your guitar to play and sound great without having to go back and repeat steps.
@@MusicNomadCare Since you are using the pick capo at fret one this will make your recommended string height proportionally measurements different from what Martin, and other Acoustic Guitar manufacturers recommend.
Our Collaboration with Master Guitar Tech Geoff Luttrell and his 20+ years, two high volume guitar shops setting up 10,000 plus guitars, teaching 100's of students in his setup workshops, in house Plek experience, plus we asked a handful of other top repair shops the most common setup measurements and this was the unanimous measurements for a a great sounding and playing guitar. We realize there are many different opinions plus these can dialed in more for the type of player and playing style. As most repair shops know most guitars come out of the factory way higher so they don't buzz and both new and old guitars need to be setup periodically for the best playability and sound.
Confused..
If you have 60 thow to take off on the bass side and 50 thow on the treble.. those are obviously different amounts. If you sand the saddle square one of these is still going to be off..??
You will still have a straight line because your removing material on 1 side that is too high. When you measure and find you need to remove material you will draw a line from treble side to bass side and that line should be flat, even though you only need to take material off on 1 side the final result will be flat by removing that material on the 1 side and keeping the straight line, that is why it is important to drawing/spec out your line and how much material your shaving off.
@MusicNomad Equipment Care I agree if you are only using one line but if you have a notch at .0060 and a different one at .0050 and you join those two notches you are not going to have a "straight line".. You are going to have a line with a .0010 slant..
The .0010 slant will be on the top of the saddle if you properly sanded your saddle flat.
Due to the complexity of lowering the action of an acoustic guitar saddle, we recommend bringing it to an experience shop. Geoff scored a line on each side of the saddle, with the years of his experience he is able to change his pressure based off of feel and experience. That is the reason why we recommend taking it to an experience guitar repair shop if you do not feel comfortable doing this process
@@garethmurphy8235 Some saddles already have a slant when their made and placed into the bridge. It goes from highest point on the 6th string to the lowest point of the 1st string.
When you sand only the flat side and make sure it is on a flat surface and regular sanding it lowers the action uniformly over the 6 strings, maintaining the slant on the saddle.
Om guessing this saddle is level on the top and bottom so he is sanding in the slant?
That's the only thing that makes sense to me unless both sides end up slanted and you just make sure the angle from high to low is flat.
@RustyGuy Well, this makes sense... I guess if you want to lower one side more than the other, then sanding in a .0010 slant would definitely achieve that, or if you start with a slant.... and sand it "flat" you would also still lower one side differently than the other.. as you said... I guess maybe that is the goal in this case..
Need a camera view of the before height. Maybe some math on the screen.
Can’t u just shave it without marking it? I already shaved a little bit but it’s not my desired height. I don’t have any tools to measure so I’ll shave little by little.
If you do not have a measuring tool to spec out the amount of material you should remove. Keep going with how you're doing it, shaving a little off at a time. Always keep in mind you can shave more material off but you cant add the material back
might have been worth mentioning that shaving the saddle on your taylor voids the warranty???
From our understanding if you do need to shave down the saddle slightly this does not void your warranty but we always recommend to full understand your warranty before making adjustments. A normal setup process should not void the warranty, the only way to lower your action on the bridge is to sand down the bottom of the saddle and this is a standard procedure on acoustic guitar but again please double check with your manufacture.
Then I won't buy a Taylor. Thanks for the tip.
You are talking to the World.
It would have only taken you an extra 5 Seconds to mention METRIC as well.
removing material from a saddle bottom is NOT the same as lowering the 2 wooden uprights that the saddle itself slips in snugly. The 2 wooden pieces can have their height lowered as long as the saddle has enough support and has its bottom removed to make a lower saddle height for 6 strings to pass over. How tall must the 2 uprights be on a classical guitar to ensure the saddle itself is supported well and tall enough ?
👍👍
so you missed on the high E , like you've done that before Lol
why not use MM versus inches as most of the English speaking world does?
Using American system is just so exclusive. Like 99% of us are the rest of the world. America is not the whole world. Please use the intuitive metric system. Don't you want outside America to learn too? It's like we need a college degree to understand your measurement language.
All of the MusicNomad Gauges and our instructional booklet come in metric also so when performing the setup you have the inches and metric together. We are a company in America so yes the video is using SAE measurements but we always include metric (we engrave it on every gauge) on our products so they are universal for the world. I understand your frustration but hope this explanation helps.
No mention of mm measures. I dislike
You can always use google conversion to convert the SAE to Metrics.Our String Action Gauges does come with a metric side and has a conversion chart on it. Our gauges are labeled to make it easy to know which size to use.
A Gold Level Taylor Tech told me you don't adjust the action with saddle adjustments, you need a neck reset which is simple, but only techs can get the shims.
if the bottom of the saddle is straight why not just shave the bottom of saddle equally? if anyone could answer this question it would be much appreciated.
Measure your string height with the string action gauge on the high E and low E string and determine how much needs come off the bass side and how much needs to come off the treble side to achieve the string action desired. Example, if the treble side and bass side are both 20 thousands of an inch too high, you would then sand down the same on both sides so it would be the same bottom but lower to spec. If the treble side is 20 thousand too high and the bass side is 40 thousands to high by sanding even you lower the issue. The bass side would be 20 thousands too high if you use the treble side measurement. If you sand to the measurement of the bass side your saddle will be too low on the treble side. By sanding an even bottom of the saddle using the Low E measurement and High E measurement as your reference points you will have set your action height properly.
Please refer to the video where Geoff explains this process in detail.
@@MusicNomadCare thank you