The Mystery behind Joseph Smith's Vision in the Grove: What really happened?

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 พ.ย. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 63

  • @edwardculberson5995
    @edwardculberson5995 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    Thank you gentlemen again for another great video and content. Mark thank you for your effort in preparing this and I see that you all have stirred up a lot of debate on this topic. This is the very reason I am so grateful that I got my testimony of the Book of Mormon before I began to see a lot of these issues come up. It's solidified my faith in the truth of the Book of Mormon. My faith is not going to be rattled about controversy that transpires in our church history. The real truth is what Dick Bauman said in his studies about the church. The real issue is do the believers of the BOM believe what it truly says or the traditions they have grown up with over the years. My prayers are with all of you guys and please continue to share the truth.

    • @restoredgospelpodcast
      @restoredgospelpodcast  2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@edwardculberson5995 thank you for sharing positive comments. You won’t believe how much it helps when people try to tear down good faith efforts. God bless you, brother.
      Mike.

  • @DanaPrice-os9hh
    @DanaPrice-os9hh หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    The chart is very helpful. I can only believe Joseph's first account at this point. He had his baptism by fire. Where does it now connect his receiving the gold plates by Moroni? Do you think that part wasn't even mentioned in the vision?

  • @stephenbrown9370
    @stephenbrown9370 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Years before I had the vision in 2000, back in 1984, i was laid out with real bad Salmanilla. I had a dream. I was standing on an open plain, i was 7yrs. Old in the dream 24 in real world. Jesus appeared and asked "what troubleth thee?"(summary) three times, i stuttered three times. Finally i said "i want to repent and i dont know how". He took my hand and showed me that it was Him standing there brooding on the face of the deep before the first day and night. The earth was a dead, dark mud puddle.
    Then we were standing in the midst of paradise like Eden and there was a throne that sat in the middle that was the tip top of a great granite mountain that went deep into the earth. Christ sat in the saddle in the top of the mountain and asked again, "what troubleth thee?" I said again "I want to repent and i don't know how ". He said "Pray... in the morning when you rise, and again at night before you retire" that's all he said. Then he sat me on his knee in my little seven year old form, and we enjoyed the beauty of the garden for a moment. And i awoke.
    There was a lot more in that dream, but the repentance thing was simple enough. Love him. Get to know him. Be consistent. Truly, God is Love personified.

    • @restoredgospelpodcast
      @restoredgospelpodcast  หลายเดือนก่อน

      I love this. I missed this comment. Thank you so much for sharing this!
      Mike

  • @stephenbrown9370
    @stephenbrown9370 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I saw Christ in 2000. Wide awake after work one day. I was sitting in the back corner of a yard in some old Apts. I lived in at the time. Behind some bushes, watching a couple of elders from the lds church parked in my driveway, deciding if I wanted to talk to them, when suddenly to my right, Jesus Was standing there a few inches above the ground. He pointed to a plum hanging in a tree and said "This is you". The plum withered on the tree and fell to the ground, black and rotting without even a seed in it.
    I looked at him and asked "Then where is the hope?", to which he replied "With me all things are possible" and he smiled just a little, and he knelt down and scooped the rot up in his hands, and lifted his cupped hands up to his ear, and then whispered something into his cupped hands, and then raised his hands up to the tree brach, and when he pulled his hands back, the most beautiful, glowing, perfect plum was hanging there in all its beautiful glory.
    My first thought was "why a plum? Why not a grape?".
    The next month I bought an old house and in the front yard was a dead looking tree. In March, half of it broke into blossoms. It was a beautiful, ☯ yin-yang one half dead, one half alive PLUM tree. That first summer it took me three tarps to catch all the plums that pretty little work of Godly art produced.

  • @bigfattrolllord
    @bigfattrolllord 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    Why does anyone assume that there was only one vision? Maybe the first time he went to ask about which church to join and the two Personages appeared to him. Then it is possible he was later worried about his sins and went a second time knowing he'd get an answer. That time, only Jesus came because it was not necessary for the Father to be there. There are lots of maybes tossed around in this discussion about Joseph's character. Maybes go both ways as they imply we don't know what happened or didn't happen.

    • @stephenbrown9370
      @stephenbrown9370 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      You seem to be assuming an awful lot here😉

    • @jAAbRON
      @jAAbRON 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      By definition, there can only be one First Vision.

    • @bigfattrolllord
      @bigfattrolllord 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@stephenbrown9370 no more than they are.

    • @bigfattrolllord
      @bigfattrolllord 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @jAAbRON exactly. Why assume that his handwritten accounts is referring to the first vision?

    • @jAAbRON
      @jAAbRON 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@bigfattrolllord because I've read it. Even the church acknowledges this. Joseph Fielding Smith knew it too, which is why he tore it out and hid it. Do your research before you say something so ludicrous.

  • @99blackbirds
    @99blackbirds 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    I don't get it?? the differences are petty! I expected huge things. The only main thing is one person vs two. Thats always been a debate in Christianity. He may have not understood what he was seeing the first time. (people are leavin the church over this?? DUMB)

    • @stephenbrown9370
      @stephenbrown9370 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      You think ONE personage and TWO is petty? Really?😶

    • @jAAbRON
      @jAAbRON 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Yeah, the quantity of the Godhead has never been a source of intense debate in the Christian world, and Joseph Smith being forgiven of his sins is identical to being called to be a prophet. /s

    • @99blackbirds
      @99blackbirds 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@stephenbrown9370 when you see GOD you tell me what he looks like. Is God 3 or one in the same?

    • @freesaints
      @freesaints 5 วันที่ผ่านมา

      I believe that it is the growing number of inconsistencies of the LDS church that can explain why people leave. When one starts to read through the Joseph Smith Papers it becomes clear that modern Mormonism can't be found in the Book of Mormon. This is problematic for many as it appears we are more concerned with following tradition instead of the doctrine of Christ as found in the Book of Mormon and New Testament.

  • @Scottfowler-r4c
    @Scottfowler-r4c 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I believe he didn't see anything

  • @hankholiday7792
    @hankholiday7792 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    2S Says Wait Patiently until some furture time whe THE TRUE DOCTRINE OF CHRIST AND COPLETE TRUTH = The Book Of Mormon. The one written in 3 Nephi.

  • @4rcgoodwin
    @4rcgoodwin 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Where is the account where Jesus Touches his eyes?

  • @MommaCrissa
    @MommaCrissa 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I havent watched it all yet, and I want to do a break down my self, but the reason why I paused the video yesterday was to go through what you call 3F.
    It's been awhile since I read the first vision according to the LDS pofgp.
    It actually never says he saw God the Father and his Son. It says the one called hos son beloved. This could be any father and son. Joseph never wrote God or Jesus Christ! Is this something we assume, when it's not actually written? Maybe you talk about it in here...
    Anyway, Ill go through everything, because I'd like to ask God in prayer myself. Now it appears he had several visions and the one where he saw Jesus, the father may have never appeared with him. Sounds like a born of fire and hold ghost experience though. There is a process, of who you see and hear first.

  • @qanon5123
    @qanon5123 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    The only thing that matters is his testimony/vision of God the Father. Everything else is a man-made version of, "And the Bible says....". You can keep all the past "And the Bible says", and all the current "And the Bible says", and all the future "And the Bible says" man-made teachings. I will stick with Joseph Smith's reality.

    • @restoredgospelpodcast
      @restoredgospelpodcast  2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@qanon5123 not tracking your comments “and the Bible says”. Can’t make sense of your statement

    • @stevekendall2964
      @stevekendall2964 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      Great class, as usual. You all are definitely not making too much of the truth. The fact that Jesus is God is the key to everything. If we could get that, it would change so much. The younger generation is starting to catch on (thanks for sharing the young person's testimony). Keep up the good work!!! God bless you all. 🙏

    • @MommaCrissa
      @MommaCrissa 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Read my comment. I was reading through it with new eyes last night. I was stunned to see, not once does it say God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ. It says 'a' father is speaking to his son, and calls him "beloved" and to hear him. In life Jesus calls John his beloved. How many fathers call their son beloved? I was shocked myself. The only reason we believe this is from another account where he sees the Lord Jesus Christ perhaps, or early on other presidents of the church. All I'm saying here...and nothing else....not trying to argue at all. Just saying look at what it actually says. It could even be Mormon and Moroni. But, I will be studying further.

  • @KendraAndTheLaw
    @KendraAndTheLaw 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Joe doinked young girls

    • @michaelparks5669
      @michaelparks5669 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      says who?

    • @DanaPrice-os9hh
      @DanaPrice-os9hh หลายเดือนก่อน

      That might be what it looks like on the surface, but if you dig honestly through the Joseph Smith papers you will learn that he and Emma fought against polygamy until their deaths. Brigham Young was a scoundrel that built up a kingdom unto himself and went back and changed records to suit his multiple-wife lifestyle.

    • @KendraAndTheLaw
      @KendraAndTheLaw หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@michaelparks5669 Oliver Cowdery

    • @KendraAndTheLaw
      @KendraAndTheLaw หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@DanaPrice-os9hh Did Brigham fake all the diary entries of the women who Joe and Hyrum "married"? Did he fake the Nauvoo Expositor? Brigham in cahoots with William Law and William Marks?

    • @michaelparks5669
      @michaelparks5669 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@DanaPrice-os9hh You must be delusional. Emma attended several sealings. best study LDS history.

  • @confusedwhynot
    @confusedwhynot 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    I for one don't appreciate your channel disception with your thumb nails and channel name. You draw unsuspecting people into watching your channel. I would advise any member of the church to block your channel from their feed.
    The comments that follow are for members that were deceived and clicked on here because of the thumbnail and the channel name. Please seek for truth elsewhere. If you will please ready my additional comments here.
    Honestly so many get caught up in the thick of thin things when they should be focused on the Doctrine of Christ and Exaltation. To many people get caught up in what they think they know about the past. We were not there and did not experience what Joseph did. God knows the beginning and has a plan for his spirit children. If you spend your time focusing on the things that honestly have no bearing on your salvation you will be caught of guard by the adversary. I am seeing this happen to others who spend their time focusing on what happened or didn't happen in the past. I am seeing the loss of faith in many who cant reconcile things in church history. Honestly your channel in some respects is prepetuating a faith crisis in those who don't have their foundation built upon the Rock of our Redeemer. Build your faith upon your Redeemer. I testify that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is built upon Christ. That he is who leads and guide the church. I testify that Joseph was called of God to be his instrument in restoring the Gospel of Jesus Christ to the earth. I testify that Joseph wasn't perfect, but that God doesnt require a person to be perfect. I testify that Joseph saw both the Father and the Son. That they are like us and have bodies. I testify that we have been blessed to be members of Christ Church. I testify that President Nelson is the Lords mouthpiece today. I testify that by following the doctrine we can and will be blessed beyond measure. I say this in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen.
    I for one have known there were different accounts given. I am not going to hinge my faith in Christ on the follies of men. We all lack knowledge, understanding and all the facts when it comes to history. I do think we need to be all in or out. Judging the Church or the gospel based on the history of imperfect people will not help me or you reach exaltation. We are not perfect either. Oftentimes we tell a story about something that happened to us. The way we tell it changes over time. Also since we are on the topic of the first vision have you ever considered that maybe Joseph was relaying his vision to someone that God told him wouldn't believe or understand. There is so much to unpack here. We don't know everything God told him or why he shared it differently to different people. I for one trust God and his wisdom. I will not continue watching this channel. I strive to have a decerning spirit. I make un effort to stay away from channels that disguise as faith promoting. This channel like many others shakes the faith of many who are struggling in their testimony. I do not support or condone such activity. We should look at the history with our eyes open to the reality that documents don't tell everything. We should put our trust in Christ. Place him at the center and accept that Joseph Smith, past prophets, past saints, and present saints are imperfect. We need to stop idealizing or worshipping prophets. We need to stop judging him or the gospel based on what we think we know when we honestly know so little. It is time to pick up the scriptures for yourself and learn to know Christ for yourself.

    • @Chris27883
      @Chris27883 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Yeah these are wolves in sheep's clothing.

    • @MommaCrissa
      @MommaCrissa 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      I want to ask you something. I'm an LDS member too, but do you not understand why people are truly looking into history? It was our church that did the Joseph Smith Papers. What do you think we're looking at??? I would say, go ahead and start reading all of it. Start understanding what is there. Then, YOUR eyes will open.
      Second, again I am a member. First of all I haven't listened to all of this video, but do you not believe that this life we need to have knowledge and then use the Spirit to understand what is true or false, then to keep studying and praying and pondering? Holding anyone back to not see is like putting a blinder over a child's eyes and say, go to school but don't learn anything. Fear is not of God. We are to learn through our own experiences. Do you not trust God to lead each person where they will need to go and what they will need to go through? Does he not love all of his children? Or are only the LDS special enough to have light and truth?
      Third thing. Read again Joseph's vision in the Pearl of Great Price. What exactly do you see? Who exactly did Joseph see? He saw two personages in this particular vision. One calls the other his son. Does it say who the father is? Does Joseph say who the son is? Not once does he mention this. He must not know which father and son this is! All sons are beloved aren't they? In one of these other accounts he actually says he saw the Lord Jesus Christ, so he may be telling others who he saw and in different visions. However, are we assuming this whole time he saw God the Father? Which father did he actually see? I don't have that answer, but I'm not sure why you believe you are better than these men. We all have the Book of Mormon, which we should be studying. I often wonder if members even study them. Try reading the account if Nephi's dream again. Where does the iron rod lead to? It leads to a tree, called the tree of life. It does not lead to a building. The people who go off to the building have gone off the path. Isn't that interesting to you, or do you choose not to look? All I can say is, we ought to decide do we believe the scriptures or do we believe modern "prophets" because there is a huge difference in teaching. I used to wonder what the church has to repent of. When I asked God about it, I didn't know he was going to show me many things, when at first I didn't "see" even one. All I did was read the scriptures and I wasn't even looking for those things to repent of. I had forgotten I asked that question. God is a God of love and truth. He wants us to study his word.

    • @DsPrice-vf1tz
      @DsPrice-vf1tz หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@Chris27883 By their testimony of the gospel of the Book of Mormon? By their willingness to search our history for the truth? These are sincere brothers. You clearly don't know the meaning of your accusation.

    • @Chris27883
      @Chris27883 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@DsPrice-vf1tz riiiiight b/c it's so hard to tell when people are distorting doctrine and history and twisting other's words to make them mean something they don't and yet calling themselves" "sincere". The devil is sincere but he's in dishonest as he is sincere, just like these people.

    • @restoredgospelpodcast
      @restoredgospelpodcast  หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Was there a specific you find insincere or in error?

  • @AlbertJLouie
    @AlbertJLouie 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    MORMONS, NO RESTORATION IS NEEDED.
    Because Jesus already has established His Church.
    MATTHEW 16:18
    "And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it..."
    ALSO
    JUDE 3
    "While I was very diligent to write to you concerning our common salvation, I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints..."
    Jesus already has established His Church and built it on a rock so the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it. Also the faith was ONCE and for all already delivered to the saints.
    No mention of any Mormon restoration in the past, present, or future.

    • @jeremims9044
      @jeremims9044 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      Are you catholic then?

    • @AlbertJLouie
      @AlbertJLouie 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @jeremims9044
      I believe in Jesus Christ who is God the Son 2nd person of the Trinity and the Eternal Creator God.
      DO you??

    • @restoredgospelpodcast
      @restoredgospelpodcast  2 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      @@AlbertJLouie you have not watched the video. We don’t believe Mormon doctrine. Be believe the Book of Mormon doctrine. The two are not the same.

    • @AlbertJLouie
      @AlbertJLouie 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @restoredgospelpodcast
      That why you Mormons don't understand the the Bible. Because you make things complicated that don't need to be complicated because true Christians live in a time of GRACE.

    • @jeremims9044
      @jeremims9044 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@AlbertJLouie so grace..meaning you can do whatever you want after you "accept" Christ? Or what do you mean?