Sharrans are f up even by bad guys standards. They are basically nihilists that want to eradicate the world from existence. They are as bad as baal cultists.
@@nuanil Drinking blood from goblets. Tormenting people to the point they break down. Using and abusing... Hm? What's this? Lies and deception? Yea, I wouldn't trust a pessimistic goddess of ignorance and stupidty either. And drow deal with deception. If anyone is going to catch on it's Minthara.
This is Minthara's way of saying in no uncertain terms: "Do not hand over Shadowheart. They will twist her into something unrecognizable, much like me". Its incredibly interesting the amount of depth that Minthara has, much more than I actually thought she did.
@@tomliwag2320 "wise , insightful and know things , and so fucking hot" that's also jaheira, just that jaheira doesn't dream of becoming an evil warmongering tyrant. :)
there is unused dialogue in the files that talk about Minthara getting pregnant at some point but were discarded so maybe at some point we got close to seeing how Minthara would have worked out as a mummy hahaha
This is where Minthara is perfectly written. She is cruel, cold and rude... BUT she respects liberty and free will. In her opinion, being rude, savage and powerfull is an expression of her liberty. That's why... she is totaly against the idea of giving Shadowheart to Viconia (meaning loosing her mind... and she was close to meet this destiny in the prison of Ketheric). That's why she is against Raphael 's contract (meaning having a debt). That's why she is ok with Astarion gaining the power of Cazador or Gayle rejecting Mystra : she approves every decision synonym of freedom and free will.
I've seen this sentiment about her a lot, but I haven't seen much of that in my own playthrough. For me, Minthara seems to encourage everybody to be their worst selves, even when that means submitting themselves to a god like with Shadowheart and the Dark Urge.
Im gonna have to do a playthrough when I get her in the party. But even if you do, what the Knock out trick, can you STILL get Halsin and then get Minratha later at Moonrise?
@@JnEricsonx Yes, you can get them all in one run. BUT REMEMBER, the knockout trick only works if you knock her out when she has the "temporarily hostile" status. If you knock a character out when they're fully hostile to you, the game counts them as dead nonetheless. so basically, if you're planning on recruiting Minthara DO NOT ACTUALLY TALK TO HER AT THE GOBLIN CAMP. Instead, piss her off by stealing something in front of her and then refuse to comply. THEN knock her out and proceed to knock out the other two goblin leaders without doing a long rest.
@@LazzyVamples I will have to try to remember this-in a month when Im on a second playthrough. Just finished Shadowhearts personal quest, after Astarion's. Jesus Christ I need to hug my dog after these for all the feels.
"A tad" nothing. Full elves in D&D aren't really considered to be true adults until they are at least 100 years old. This is true even for Drow. Minthara is most likely well over 100, possibly even closer to 200 at this point in time. :P
@@gamester512to add to that, from what I understand based on the first(?) Drizzt Do'Urden book (Homeland), the Menzoberranzan drow start their academy education at 20(ish?) and depending on the school you attend, you spend 10 (for warriors), 25 (for wizards) or even 40 (for priestesses of Lolth) years in education. I believe Shadowheart is 40ish (similar age at which Astarion was turned into a vampire, btw, I think he was 39 - somebody translated his grave). Not only a child by elf/drow standards (below 100), ahe wouldn't even be out of education system yet, since she probably would've ended up in either the priestess or the wizard school. Basically a baby. Of course, Shadowheart is only a half elf, which I assume means her life expectancy is lower than that of a full elf/drow, but I doubt it changes anything for Minthara. And just through the fact that she was in charge of House Baenre's army, I'm pretty sure she's way over 100 yo.
@@Kasiarzynka I can't remember exactly how old Drizzt was when he started his education at Melee-Magthere (Warrior School), but when he fled Menzoberranzan for good after the death of his father, I believe he was around 70-75, so still a "child" in the eyes of most elves, with him being at best the elven equivalent of a teenager (his Ranger mentor, Montolio DeBrouchee [or "Mooshie"] himself even pointed out to him that Drizzt was still young by elf standards, and that even if he weren't, he'd still outlive Montolio by many centuries even if he'd met Mosshie when he was still a young man rather than an old man in pretty much his final year of life). And then Drizzt spends 10 years after Mooshie's death (due to old age) traveling with the Weeping Friars before he finally finds his way to Icewind Dale and eventually his true "home" once he'd earned the trust and friendship of Bruenor & Catti-brie, and thus become welcome within the mines of Clan Battlehammer. This means that he's really only approaching the age of 100 (and thus, elven adulthood) by the time of the fourth novel, "The Crystal Shard". It's probably not until the events of the fifth novel that Drizzt has actually reached the age of 100.
I like the little touches to the writing this game has like this. Even Minthara isnt a moustache twirling villain and sometimes the characters disapprove of you not because they disagree with sometimes it’s cause they care and see you doing something foolish.
I joke about how evil Minthara is she honestly has shocking moments where even she thinks going full urge is taking things too far lol. Not surprised she dislikes Shar's followers in this considering how badly a 2 cults screwed her over its no wonder she reacts this way.
She doesn't like killing with purpose or cause to do so. That isn't really evil a lunatic kills because they can and to satisfy their craving for it. To some killers killing is a narcotic the more they do it the more they desire to do it. Minthara was only that way because of the influence of the tadpole and the control the Absolute had over it. Once free of that she is more of a pragmatist when it comes to killing and evil. Drow culture is dangerous and chaotic more so when your female and of the noble houses. Kind of like the Klingons in Star Trek in a way. They kill rivals to obtain more power and to prevent others from taking their power. Really isn't much different than modern politics in a way in the real world. Just the playbook of doing that is less killing and more create a scandal involving a rival and let the courts and media do the rest.
Well, these sharian cultists did brainwash Viconia beyond recognition. Because she is NOTHING like the one that accompanied me from Peldvale to the friggin' Throne of Bhaal.
I think that's actually the best explanation for why Viconia is the way she is in bg3. One of the mirror memories are hers, and depending on her ending it's possible for her to effectively walk away from Shar. But if petty spite were a domain it'd easily belong to Shar. It's definitely not out of Shar's style to brutilate Viconia's mind until she's her servant again, and then have her killed after training Shadowheart.
Oh c'mon man, she's not that usless. On higher levels she has pretty powerful healing spells and protective ones like guardian angel or capture a beast, and all this things were pretty useful against Raphael or Larroakan. Agree, she does weak damage both in melee and on distance, but let's be real here, being a tank is Karlach, Minthara and Lae'zels part while it's Gale to be death maschine on distance, SH is ment to be healer&back up 😘
Nah man end game she is amazing. The ring that grants Bless on heal , Viconia’s shield with Helldusk armor had her sitting at 25 AC. Firebolt sucks terribly though but she’s my scroll monkey and healer so it’s fine. Radiant orb build on her works great too once you get blood of lathander
That's not the same Viconia who fought beside the Bhaalspawn against Sarevok and Jon Irenicus and then helped Drizzt protect the Elven city and was accepted into the surface elves as a hero, The Viconia who when told she didn't have to help the Bhaalspawn fight the final battle in BG2 said she would not abandon her friends.
I've been replaying through BG1 and 2 with a friend. We picked up Viconia in SoD and continued with her in BG2. She was always someone I liked back when I played so many years ago. Now that I've revisited it and am playing her right now, I miss this Viconia a lot. They massacred her character. Especially because the canon ending for her fighting alongside the bhaalspawn is the one you mentioned. Aside from that, if you romanced her, her ending was that after bearing a child with the bhaalspawn, she gets assassinated by Lolth drow. So, her two possible endings are either she's a hero multiple times over, or she's dead. Sad to see her fall back so far.
@@jakethedoge5395 Shar erases and rewrites memories for fun. If they include Viconia in a BG3 follow up it would be pretty easy to explain her falling back as Shar's manipulation
Seeing what has happened to Shadowheart, Viconia probably had parts of her memory swiss cheesed too. The memory removal before Shadowheart's mission was just one of many, as they had to delete every time her faith started to waver and she started to remember. So likely Shar took away the parts that would make Viconia weak too, just like if Shadowheart goes Dark Justiciar route and kills her parents, where memories are removed and the fully committed Shadowheart feels like talking to an unemotional shell, as feelings weaken her.
In The Dark Elf Trilogy, second chapter, Viconia's family was obliterated in Menzoberranzan. There was supposed to be only one survivor (Alton). There is no house DeVir.
Except Out of the Abyss also features an NPC called Vizeran deVir, who was banished before said massacre happened. This kept him safe, but he still kept his house name as a token of pride against Loth. There's ways to write around it, you know.
@@AB-ez4rm I believe it is. I think Malice used her birth pain to help with a psychic attack of some kind. The fact that Drizzt was around for Baldur's Gate 2 implies that chronologically, this was well after that event.
This is about 200 years after the fall of house DeVir. I haven't played previous BG games, but the wiki seems to say that she fled prior to the fall of house DeVir. That doesn't really make sense to me because Drizzt is literally the talk of Menzoberranzan for doing the exact same thing. I had the same issue with the drow at Sharess' Caress until I read the most recent Salvatore book, which makes them being in Baldur's Gate reasonable.
Coming in late here, but Viconia is actually a character from the original Baldur's Gate games, and her backstory involves fleeing the city after her mother tried to have her sacrificed to regain Lolth's favour, iirc. Frankly, her depiction in this game does her a tremendous disservice; but then, they did a tremendous disservice to both the redeemable characters. Kind of funny to see her show up in this game in this way when her good ending ends with her getting assassinated by another drow, and her neutral ending involves her saving elvish cities with Drizzt, but uh... Wizards decided to butcher her character instead of writing a new villain for the role, and Larian had to oblige them.
May just make a playthrough where my character is a villian but turns it around and becomes good towards the end, really sucks only way to get minthara is to be evil in the beginning and lose most of your companions
Ngl it’s so painful when she seems like a very interesting character and to get her I have to throw away basically Halsin, Wyll and Karlach, and a couple more quests because killing the Tieflings blocks them…
Theres a mod that allows her to be a companion with Halsin. Forewarning, do not return to act one after you get to act 2 or he will die and you cant revive him.
Damn they really fcked up Viconia or better said they took her worst ending as canon for this game... I mean she has a character development during BG 2 for people that have witnessed it this is a slap in the face. Its like Minthara f.e. she grows as a character develops in a better way and then in BG4 she returns as a Lolth Sworn Drown again or something like that. Stupid stupid!
Viconia: "Do as I say or I'll kill you." Me: "Minthara, someone is trying to best your title as biggest Dark Elf Bitch of Faerun." Minthara: "YOU DARE! YOU DARE!" *Minthara and Viconia get in a Dark Elf Catfight where it is more like a slaughter than a fight*
THIS!. It's irritating to see the blatant fanservice they're doing with those two, just because the fans are horny. While ignoring characters that have more plot relevance like Shadowheart, Wyll and Minthara.
I dunno if it's new or not but in my game she got kidnapped by Orin. And after rescuing her I gave her a pep talk that ended with her asking me out. If I weren't so attached to Gale I'd have done it. Minthy is the best.
There are (or were not sure with latest patch) exploits to get it done. Otherwise, there is a mod that can be used to where you recruit Minthara in Act 2 while saving the Druid grove.
@@KodaPaulyou can fix karlach? I saved the grove, saved dammon, but the only ending I got is turning her into MF, turned her back to avernus and straight exploding
@@Fae-Fey Maybe upcoming updates or DLC might change her story but other than that fixing her heart is just temporary and for romance purpose only. I think.
@@AB-ez4rm ignoring conflict isnt an exploit... there are dialogs in game between/about this characters so it is designed that there is way to keep them 3 without explots Just ignore conflict and you will have them as designed
Honestly I was struggling to understand it myself.. until I realized one of the memories in the mirror was Viconia. Then suddenly it all clicked into place and made me wish there was a route to restore that memory to her.
@@KuariThunderclaw Sadly, we cannot force-feed Viconia with the Noblestalk. That would certainly have really pissed Shar off and would have been my go to decision.
It would be cool to see Viconia changed due to one of the endings in BG2 ToB where you romance her, she changes her alignment to Neutral and rejects Shar.
They made a carbon copy of Viconia in terms of personality in BG3 (Minthara) then killed off the real one. Maybe Larian is salty their romances aren’t nearly as good as BioWare’s but that’s tinfoil hat territory.
Given that BioWare is regarded as a failure even by mos BG1&2 players, your comment is... odd to say the least. Likely not backed up by facts, by mindless hatred like most people who don't accept change and the "new"
@@genkureshima9834 it is backed up by facts. Minthara is an evil (but not excessively so) rogue drow, just like Viconia who loves to interject with her evil and often unorthodox opinions just like Viconia. Her personality is almost the same and her backstory is similar. And no, this is not hating the ‘new’. BG3’s writing massively, massively, MASSIVELY, pales in comparison to BG2’s. It’s too bloated, poorly paced, has villains who aren’t that memorable, too convoluted, and it basically follows the same scaffold as DOS2’s story even though that story was never good enough that it needed to be retold. BioWare is regarded as a failure but they weren’t a failure when they made BG1-2
damn they did Viconia dirty, Elves dont show signs of aging till near their deaths. She shouldnt be this haggard and in bg1/2 she was good looking as her portrait was based off a adult star.
She is a half-elf. 40 is considered a child, elves and half-elves are not considered adults until they hit 100. They can live up to 500 years max while elves can live to 1,000.
Half-elves mature at 20, and live to be about 180, sometimes exceeding that. Normal elves live to be about 750. On top of that, Drow like Viconia are about as arrogant as can be. The amount of pure, evil arrogance you have to have, to say that Shadowheart ‘has a lot to answer for’, when you literally kidnapped her as a child, tortured, brainwashed, and forced her to torture her own parents. But because she didn’t murder someone when Shar asked, Viconia is going to probably do it all over again to her, but worse. Should have let that Flaming Fist kill you all those years ago, Viconia.
@@xxGamer101xxx In the Realms, a 40 year old half elf is about the equivalent to a 30 year old human. Also, Shadowheart is around 50, so she's closer to a 35 year old human.
I love how Minthara isn't just a cartoon villain. She has a lot of depth to her character.
Which is awesome that you can recruit her in Act 2 without killing her with the mod.
I think we can safely say it's true to every other character in this game
Sadly, they turned Viconia into one of those.
Viconia was originally just like Minthara but here she is a cartoon villain sadly.
@@iskabin Wyll, Karlach, Gale
Minthara is dangerously close to showing kindness.
you know you're doing something really F'ed up when even minthara is like "my guy, wtf?"
Sharrans are f up even by bad guys standards. They are basically nihilists that want to eradicate the world from existence. They are as bad as baal cultists.
When you're too evil for Minthara, take a step back and question yourself.
It seems she doesn't mind certain acts but you need to have a good [haha] reason. Be evil but be pragmatic. Be evil but have a good explanation, bud.
@@nuanil Drinking blood from goblets. Tormenting people to the point they break down. Using and abusing...
Hm? What's this? Lies and deception? Yea, I wouldn't trust a pessimistic goddess of ignorance and stupidty either. And drow deal with deception. If anyone is going to catch on it's Minthara.
shadowheart is an irritating and naive child, but shes MY irritating and naive child!
40 yr old child
@@TheKillaShow By Drow standards, Shadowheart is a toddler.
@@tbanime6262 by time standards, shes is a grown woman.
*Laughs in Elvish*@@TheKillaShow
shes also gods favorite princess :)
This is Minthara's way of saying in no uncertain terms: "Do not hand over Shadowheart. They will twist her into something unrecognizable, much like me". Its incredibly interesting the amount of depth that Minthara has, much more than I actually thought she did.
well she is wise , insightful and know things , and so fucking hot
@@tomliwag2320 "wise , insightful and know things , and so fucking hot" that's also jaheira, just that jaheira doesn't dream of becoming an evil warmongering tyrant. :)
@@thecursed01 any downsides ?
@@tomliwag2320
Yeah, can't romance Jaheira :c
@@HHuynh2011 I get why though. I cannot imagine moving on from my wife so easily
"The child Shadowheart can be irritating and naive."
Hey, she likes her.
Minthara is that strict & intense mother who will never say “I love you” but means well.
Asian mom
@@OctavioBorgia 😂🤣
no idea, never lived in the Western hemishpere@@clouddash-wu5ug
@@clouddash-wu5ug That all depends on the moms really.
there is unused dialogue in the files that talk about Minthara getting pregnant at some point but were discarded so maybe at some point we got close to seeing how Minthara would have worked out as a mummy hahaha
This is where Minthara is perfectly written. She is cruel, cold and rude... BUT she respects liberty and free will. In her opinion, being rude, savage and powerfull is an expression of her liberty.
That's why... she is totaly against the idea of giving Shadowheart to Viconia (meaning loosing her mind... and she was close to meet this destiny in the prison of Ketheric). That's why she is against Raphael 's contract (meaning having a debt). That's why she is ok with Astarion gaining the power of Cazador or Gayle rejecting Mystra : she approves every decision synonym of freedom and free will.
I've seen this sentiment about her a lot, but I haven't seen much of that in my own playthrough. For me, Minthara seems to encourage everybody to be their worst selves, even when that means submitting themselves to a god like with Shadowheart and the Dark Urge.
Im gonna have to do a playthrough when I get her in the party. But even if you do, what the Knock out trick, can you STILL get Halsin and then get Minratha later at Moonrise?
@@JnEricsonx Yes, you can get them all in one run. BUT REMEMBER, the knockout trick only works if you knock her out when she has the "temporarily hostile" status. If you knock a character out when they're fully hostile to you, the game counts them as dead nonetheless. so basically, if you're planning on recruiting Minthara DO NOT ACTUALLY TALK TO HER AT THE GOBLIN CAMP. Instead, piss her off by stealing something in front of her and then refuse to comply. THEN knock her out and proceed to knock out the other two goblin leaders without doing a long rest.
@@LazzyVamples I will have to try to remember this-in a month when Im on a second playthrough. Just finished Shadowhearts personal quest, after Astarion's. Jesus Christ I need to hug my dog after these for all the feels.
@@JnEricsonx Just wait until you finish Karlach's.
I like how Minthara keeps referring to Shadowheart as "the child". Indeed for elf years, Mint is a tad older than SH
"A tad" nothing. Full elves in D&D aren't really considered to be true adults until they are at least 100 years old. This is true even for Drow. Minthara is most likely well over 100, possibly even closer to 200 at this point in time. :P
Minthara is at least a couple of centuries old, and Shadowheart is about 50 at most. So yeah, that is quite an age difference.
Minty is 200 years old and Shadowheart is 40, so yeah@@gamester512
@@gamester512to add to that, from what I understand based on the first(?) Drizzt Do'Urden book (Homeland), the Menzoberranzan drow start their academy education at 20(ish?) and depending on the school you attend, you spend 10 (for warriors), 25 (for wizards) or even 40 (for priestesses of Lolth) years in education. I believe Shadowheart is 40ish (similar age at which Astarion was turned into a vampire, btw, I think he was 39 - somebody translated his grave). Not only a child by elf/drow standards (below 100), ahe wouldn't even be out of education system yet, since she probably would've ended up in either the priestess or the wizard school. Basically a baby.
Of course, Shadowheart is only a half elf, which I assume means her life expectancy is lower than that of a full elf/drow, but I doubt it changes anything for Minthara. And just through the fact that she was in charge of House Baenre's army, I'm pretty sure she's way over 100 yo.
@@Kasiarzynka I can't remember exactly how old Drizzt was when he started his education at Melee-Magthere (Warrior School), but when he fled Menzoberranzan for good after the death of his father, I believe he was around 70-75, so still a "child" in the eyes of most elves, with him being at best the elven equivalent of a teenager (his Ranger mentor, Montolio DeBrouchee [or "Mooshie"] himself even pointed out to him that Drizzt was still young by elf standards, and that even if he weren't, he'd still outlive Montolio by many centuries even if he'd met Mosshie when he was still a young man rather than an old man in pretty much his final year of life). And then Drizzt spends 10 years after Mooshie's death (due to old age) traveling with the Weeping Friars before he finally finds his way to Icewind Dale and eventually his true "home" once he'd earned the trust and friendship of Bruenor & Catti-brie, and thus become welcome within the mines of Clan Battlehammer. This means that he's really only approaching the age of 100 (and thus, elven adulthood) by the time of the fourth novel, "The Crystal Shard". It's probably not until the events of the fifth novel that Drizzt has actually reached the age of 100.
"just another miserable cult" well said
Minthara. Stating the facts.
Love it.
I like the little touches to the writing this game has like this. Even Minthara isnt a moustache twirling villain and sometimes the characters disapprove of you not because they disagree with sometimes it’s cause they care and see you doing something foolish.
Minthara, chill, I’m just getting us out of here without having to kill everyone.
minthy is the best
Such a cute murder enthusiast
@@Local_commentor yes!
Minthara is the definition of Lawful Evil.
Shar
Vlaakith
All dumpster divers.
Use your faithful until they are an empty tube of toothpaste.
....except in Vlaakith's case, she eats the tube.
Vlaakith loves eating toothpaste
I really wish they had gotten Grey DeLisle to reprise her role as Viconia. Her voice is just perfection.
Cannot believe they did my girl Viconia like this
That's not Viconia, that's a completely different character that shares her name.
@@varric and her last name? Sadly we cannot hide from the truth :(
Vicky’s character design has been mutilated by Larian/WotC
Poor Vic looks like she took up heavy smoking *damn She turned out rough!*
i fucking love minthara. She is EVIL, but she has good parts of her. a truly well written villain
Shadow heart is awesome no one messes with the group
CAN be irritating and naive? Minthata sure is optimistic.
im in ur walls
@@dov2mt i am inside your circulatory system
@@dov2mt I'm in your skin.
@@dov2mt HES IN THE WALLS! HES IN THE GODDAMN WALLS!
@@AManChoosesASlaveObeys The. Name. Is. Neo.
I joke about how evil Minthara is she honestly has shocking moments where even she thinks going full urge is taking things too far lol. Not surprised she dislikes Shar's followers in this considering how badly a 2 cults screwed her over its no wonder she reacts this way.
She doesn't like killing with purpose or cause to do so. That isn't really evil a lunatic kills because they can and to satisfy their craving for it. To some killers killing is a narcotic the more they do it the more they desire to do it. Minthara was only that way because of the influence of the tadpole and the control the Absolute had over it. Once free of that she is more of a pragmatist when it comes to killing and evil. Drow culture is dangerous and chaotic more so when your female and of the noble houses. Kind of like the Klingons in Star Trek in a way. They kill rivals to obtain more power and to prevent others from taking their power. Really isn't much different than modern politics in a way in the real world. Just the playbook of doing that is less killing and more create a scandal involving a rival and let the courts and media do the rest.
Not really if you romance Minthara as a full evil dark urge , you get the ending where you (dark urge) and minthara rule the world
Chun-li Sparkle has gone far in life i see.
Well, these sharian cultists did brainwash Viconia beyond recognition. Because she is NOTHING like the one that accompanied me from Peldvale to the friggin' Throne of Bhaal.
I think that's actually the best explanation for why Viconia is the way she is in bg3. One of the mirror memories are hers, and depending on her ending it's possible for her to effectively walk away from Shar. But if petty spite were a domain it'd easily belong to Shar. It's definitely not out of Shar's style to brutilate Viconia's mind until she's her servant again, and then have her killed after training Shadowheart.
Lady, here's the deal.
YOU HAVE GOT TO DIE.
#1. Shadowheart is MY useless cleric. #1.
2. You have the loot. Shadowheart is my mule.
Oh c'mon man, she's not that usless. On higher levels she has pretty powerful healing spells and protective ones like guardian angel or capture a beast, and all this things were pretty useful against Raphael or Larroakan. Agree, she does weak damage both in melee and on distance, but let's be real here, being a tank is Karlach, Minthara and Lae'zels part while it's Gale to be death maschine on distance, SH is ment to be healer&back up 😘
I respec everyone to warlock2/caster whatever. max charismas all around.@@straussenberg286
Nah man end game she is amazing. The ring that grants Bless on heal , Viconia’s shield with Helldusk armor had her sitting at 25 AC. Firebolt sucks terribly though but she’s my scroll monkey and healer so it’s fine. Radiant orb build on her works great too once you get blood of lathander
Shadowheart is borderline op.
@@straussenberg286 Just respec her honestly, any other cleric subclass works waaaaaay better. Life cleric will make your party unkillable.
That's not the same Viconia who fought beside the Bhaalspawn against Sarevok and Jon Irenicus and then helped Drizzt protect the Elven city and was accepted into the surface elves as a hero, The Viconia who when told she didn't have to help the Bhaalspawn fight the final battle in BG2 said she would not abandon her friends.
"I made certain choices during BG2, how dare Larian not make my choices canon."
@@TheShadowOfHumanity you never played a dragonage game have you
I've been replaying through BG1 and 2 with a friend. We picked up Viconia in SoD and continued with her in BG2. She was always someone I liked back when I played so many years ago. Now that I've revisited it and am playing her right now, I miss this Viconia a lot. They massacred her character. Especially because the canon ending for her fighting alongside the bhaalspawn is the one you mentioned. Aside from that, if you romanced her, her ending was that after bearing a child with the bhaalspawn, she gets assassinated by Lolth drow. So, her two possible endings are either she's a hero multiple times over, or she's dead. Sad to see her fall back so far.
@@jakethedoge5395 Shar erases and rewrites memories for fun. If they include Viconia in a BG3 follow up it would be pretty easy to explain her falling back as Shar's manipulation
Seeing what has happened to Shadowheart, Viconia probably had parts of her memory swiss cheesed too. The memory removal before Shadowheart's mission was just one of many, as they had to delete every time her faith started to waver and she started to remember.
So likely Shar took away the parts that would make Viconia weak too, just like if Shadowheart goes Dark Justiciar route and kills her parents, where memories are removed and the fully committed Shadowheart feels like talking to an unemotional shell, as feelings weaken her.
In The Dark Elf Trilogy, second chapter, Viconia's family was obliterated in Menzoberranzan. There was supposed to be only one survivor (Alton). There is no house DeVir.
I still remember that scene. House Do'Urden was attacking and that's when Drizzt was born. If I recalled that correctly that is.
Except Out of the Abyss also features an NPC called Vizeran deVir, who was banished before said massacre happened. This kept him safe, but he still kept his house name as a token of pride against Loth.
There's ways to write around it, you know.
@@AB-ez4rm I believe it is. I think Malice used her birth pain to help with a psychic attack of some kind. The fact that Drizzt was around for Baldur's Gate 2 implies that chronologically, this was well after that event.
This is about 200 years after the fall of house DeVir. I haven't played previous BG games, but the wiki seems to say that she fled prior to the fall of house DeVir. That doesn't really make sense to me because Drizzt is literally the talk of Menzoberranzan for doing the exact same thing. I had the same issue with the drow at Sharess' Caress until I read the most recent Salvatore book, which makes them being in Baldur's Gate reasonable.
Coming in late here, but Viconia is actually a character from the original Baldur's Gate games, and her backstory involves fleeing the city after her mother tried to have her sacrificed to regain Lolth's favour, iirc. Frankly, her depiction in this game does her a tremendous disservice; but then, they did a tremendous disservice to both the redeemable characters. Kind of funny to see her show up in this game in this way when her good ending ends with her getting assassinated by another drow, and her neutral ending involves her saving elvish cities with Drizzt, but uh... Wizards decided to butcher her character instead of writing a new villain for the role, and Larian had to oblige them.
Now I wish I didn’t kill her at the grove : (
May just make a playthrough where my character is a villian but turns it around and becomes good towards the end, really sucks only way to get minthara is to be evil in the beginning and lose most of your companions
Dominate a sheep and you're good
Ngl it’s so painful when she seems like a very interesting character and to get her I have to throw away basically Halsin, Wyll and Karlach, and a couple more quests because killing the Tieflings blocks them…
@@KommunismusI love your comment
Theres a mod that allows her to be a companion with Halsin. Forewarning, do not return to act one after you get to act 2 or he will die and you cant revive him.
You can also just skip the grove vs goblin conflict, but then you’re leaving xp on the table and missing out on the main conflict of act 1
Well what? I'm going to go get her so we can both stomp on your face. And take your shield.
BG3 did Viconia dirty IMO
Damn they really fcked up Viconia or better said they took her worst ending as canon for this game...
I mean she has a character development during BG 2 for people that have witnessed it this is a slap in the face. Its like Minthara f.e. she grows as a character develops in a better way and then in BG4 she returns as a Lolth Sworn Drown again or something like that.
Stupid stupid!
Oh- I thought she said the OTHER C word. 👀
Cleric? O:)
@@thecursed01 Started with C-U and end with T as well...😮
The biggest regret
Can't romance SH and Minthara at THE SAME TIME!!
Viconia: "Do as I say or I'll kill you."
Me: "Minthara, someone is trying to best your title as biggest Dark Elf Bitch of Faerun."
Minthara: "YOU DARE! YOU DARE!"
*Minthara and Viconia get in a Dark Elf Catfight where it is more like a slaughter than a fight*
Well said, dear sir, well said! Make it a mud fight to the death!
Why is Viconia looks old? Elf's (or drows ) does not age.
nah these clothing mods go crazy ahahah
Minthara supported when I gave away Shadowheart lmaoo I must have done something terrible
I'm begging you Larian to stop fixating on Halitosis and Asstarion, give us the full Minthara fixes. I wanna romance her so bad.
she'd probably rather have someone else. we're just here to save her brain
@@darkiepoo8949 huh???
THIS!. It's irritating to see the blatant fanservice they're doing with those two, just because the fans are horny. While ignoring characters that have more plot relevance like Shadowheart, Wyll and Minthara.
sorry, halitosis? is that supposed to mean halsin or laezel LOL
I dunno if it's new or not but in my game she got kidnapped by Orin. And after rescuing her I gave her a pep talk that ended with her asking me out. If I weren't so attached to Gale I'd have done it. Minthy is the best.
Ooooh Viccy, my old flame... She's hard to resist... :)
Yeah, one of my first video game waifus. Met the VA a few years ago. Was one of her first VA roles too.
And how did you manage to get both Minthara and Karlach into the party at once?
There are (or were not sure with latest patch) exploits to get it done. Otherwise, there is a mod that can be used to where you recruit Minthara in Act 2 while saving the Druid grove.
You can do this by leaving the grove and proceeding to act 2. However, you can’t fix karlach’s heart.
@@KodaPaulyou can fix karlach? I saved the grove, saved dammon, but the only ending I got is turning her into MF, turned her back to avernus and straight exploding
@@Fae-Fey Maybe upcoming updates or DLC might change her story but other than that fixing her heart is just temporary and for romance purpose only. I think.
@@AB-ez4rm ignoring conflict isnt an exploit...
there are dialogs in game between/about this characters so it is designed that there is way to keep them 3 without explots
Just ignore conflict and you will have them as designed
well what??
minthra calling shadowheart is funny when you realize shadowheart is 48 lmfao
In half elf years that is around 19-20.
Wotc absolutely murdered Viccy character, it's sad..
Honestly I was struggling to understand it myself.. until I realized one of the memories in the mirror was Viconia. Then suddenly it all clicked into place and made me wish there was a route to restore that memory to her.
@@KuariThunderclaw Sadly, we cannot force-feed Viconia with the Noblestalk. That would certainly have really pissed Shar off and would have been my go to decision.
0:28 -- Is she the most based character in this game?
Viconia aged much, much worse than Jaheira, who is a ggggilf.
tbf, Jaheira definitely exercise, do some druid shit and generally have a better mindset. It does wonder to your aging
@@daskebabibnahmedal-kohol8119 especially if you're 200 years old
i killed minthara not knowing she can be your companion. lol
It would be cool to see Viconia changed due to one of the endings in BG2 ToB where you romance her, she changes her alignment to Neutral and rejects Shar.
In Baldur 1-2, Viconia would respond like Minthara does here. I guess they didn't want 2 complex Drow female characters.
Clown Shart didn't betray Shart? How weird...
Get something more original next time lol
Her and jaheira are like bad cop, worse cop moms
They made a carbon copy of Viconia in terms of personality in BG3 (Minthara) then killed off the real one. Maybe Larian is salty their romances aren’t nearly as good as BioWare’s but that’s tinfoil hat territory.
Given that BioWare is regarded as a failure even by mos BG1&2 players, your comment is... odd to say the least. Likely not backed up by facts, by mindless hatred like most people who don't accept change and the "new"
@@genkureshima9834 it is backed up by facts. Minthara is an evil (but not excessively so) rogue drow, just like Viconia who loves to interject with her evil and often unorthodox opinions just like Viconia. Her personality is almost the same and her backstory is similar. And no, this is not hating the ‘new’. BG3’s writing massively, massively, MASSIVELY, pales in comparison to BG2’s. It’s too bloated, poorly paced, has villains who aren’t that memorable, too convoluted, and it basically follows the same scaffold as DOS2’s story even though that story was never good enough that it needed to be retold.
BioWare is regarded as a failure but they weren’t a failure when they made BG1-2
damn they did Viconia dirty, Elves dont show signs of aging till near their deaths. She shouldnt be this haggard and in bg1/2 she was good looking as her portrait was based off a adult star.
Still happy I met her VA. And dare I ask who her original image was based on?
Zdenka Podkapova@@JnEricsonx
@@fistimusmaximus6576 Looked it up. One more reason Viconia was my first video game crush, damn.
yeah, why I was alittle disappointed how they portrayed he in bg3, She also wouldnt have aged like she had as she was a pure elf/drow @@JnEricsonx
Far I recall she was looking older in BG2. Not old old, but getting old.
Viconia really let herself go. She used to be an IG model. Now she's a greeter at Wal-Mart
Meanwhile the VA who I've met is still pretty!
I think most of her antipathy comes from her personally disliking Vikkie.
I want to see a love scene between Mommy Minty and Shadowcute, the two bestest girls in BG3.
Im playing Shadowheart origin and romancing minthara, highly recommend
I don't know... game deserves a GOTY but, come on Viconia can't hear Minthara in this conversation while she is dissing her religion and cult?
calling a 40 year old child is crazy
as far as elves go she is. They live like 1000 years. so half elves live close to around 500 years or so
She is a half-elf. 40 is considered a child, elves and half-elves are not considered adults until they hit 100. They can live up to 500 years max while elves can live to 1,000.
Half-elves mature at 20, and live to be about 180, sometimes exceeding that. Normal elves live to be about 750. On top of that, Drow like Viconia are about as arrogant as can be.
The amount of pure, evil arrogance you have to have, to say that Shadowheart ‘has a lot to answer for’, when you literally kidnapped her as a child, tortured, brainwashed, and forced her to torture her own parents. But because she didn’t murder someone when Shar asked, Viconia is going to probably do it all over again to her, but worse.
Should have let that Flaming Fist kill you all those years ago, Viconia.
*early 50s
@@xxGamer101xxx In the Realms, a 40 year old half elf is about the equivalent to a 30 year old human. Also, Shadowheart is around 50, so she's closer to a 35 year old human.
Wow, I forget people play this game as an origin character.
Ughhh why tf she looks like 80 y.o. though? She was in her 20’s in old games by human standards, and a hundred years is nothing to a draw.