I haven't went skiing since 2014, and only on a small hill, but the engineering of this ski lift sounds fascinating. :) One of the many reasons I enjoy science and technology, and traveling.
It's only a counter balance to hold the lines tight ! Am always amazed when people use technology which could potentially be harmful to them if it broke and thinking that its all "fun" !!!
@@GowGows I'm afraid of people who think that technology which is there to protect them is a bit of fun ! The suspended reinforced concrete block is suspended to tighten the cables and be mobile thus leaving some wiggle room for the cable which is not taught as tight as a violin string FOR A REASON. Not for fun. Try reading correctly next time.
@eblman Wow. Did I ever say I was afraid of handrails, airplanes, Cars or anything for that matter ??? Again you do not read the English language correctly. Do you think - as the Author suggests - that an engineer had FUN (not the general public having fun sliding down them) designing and implementing a handrail up/down a staircase ?. Cheers.
I've been riding the Hohstock lift for more than 10 years but I have never noticed the geniusnes of it until this random video popped up on my YT-frontpage. Have to pay more attention next time I'm there to actually appreciate the technical beauty of the lift!
@@thierryfaquet7405 It doesn't have to be that expensive. If you're from the USA, sure, but it's very common for Czech families to go skiing to the Alps in the winter. I'm talking about regular middle-class families.
@@thierryfaquet7405 Oh, Swiss Alps definitely are. Everything is ridiculously expensive for the average Czech in Switzerland. But Austria is alright. Also when I said "when you're from the USA" I had the flight ticket on my mind, which is a good chunk of money. Probably almost equal to a whole week of skiing in Austria.
The Hohstock is actually extremely fast and some years ago, you even went without ground contact for a second (they now filled the part in summer, so you don’t lift up).
No idea how I ended up here, I don't even Ski, but this kind of observation and questioning mechanical solutions or just "how things work" is right down my slope. Interesting and very well explained, thanks!
I've seen a button lift that can turn both ways through a mechanism resembling a middle station only there was no actual building. The bar would seamlessly detach from the rope and reattach to a new rope going at an angle, forming two loops. Some bars would dettach but others would remain and head back down following a logic I couldn't figure out. The real fun part began after the switch where the terrain would go downhill. So much so that your skis would start to outpace the lift itself, making it impossible to hold on to the bar. It caught me so unprepared that I had to do a couple of early dropouts to realize I needed to do a snowplow to get past that stretch.
That sounds like an interesting mechanism as well. I knew those existed for gondulas, but I haven't seen those for tow Lifts yet. I wonder which would be more expensive to build, the two ropes or the middle station.
@@dextrodus I doubt there's a significant difference. Drag lifts are relatively cheep installations that have a very long life expectancy. A reliability track record comparison could be interesting though.
@@gvaley POMA made a few detachable platter lifts back in the 1970s or 80s. They have a "magazine" of sorts that holds the detached bars at the bottom. There is a stoplight and when it turns green it releases the hanger onto the cable. There is one in Åre, Sweden (Vargenliften) and in Hemsedal in Norway. From what I have heard its absolute hell to maintain them compared to a normal platter or T bar lift.
@@maxcalabrese5962 Yup, that's the one I'm referring to. They still run, considering they were built in the 70s or 80s, so I guess they are not hard to maintain. But I've only seen one making a turn.
You should see the Pomagalaski/Tatrapoma button lifts. They can do as many turns as you can imagine having just one rope, in addition, they are detachable. All this is due to a special, but very simple attachment to the rope. Old but beautiful pieces of engineering! They can be seen for example in CZ, SK, or FRA.
Detachable ski lifts can turn in every directions since the fixation is around the cable. When the cable need to pass over a wheel, there is a guide to push the fixation to either side needed
This is not true, to perform a turn the grip would have to detach from the cable with the use of a mid station, search "transarc tcd" on Google and you will see what I mean
@@caiwilkie6453 thats how most of the bigger lifts works where i ski. theres a mid station where the lift detaches from the cable, then moved slowly with normal rubber wheels and lifted on the second cable after the turn. Its for 8 or 10 seaters usually.
My initial reaction to the question of how to turn both directions was to use detectable chairs at turn stations, but I have to admit this is a pretty unique solution I did not think of. I am not sure it would work safely for chairs and gondolas though, which is probably why you only see it for ground lifts. Most of the ground lifts around here have been replaced. Still a few fixed grip chairs but even they are getting rare, short or less used lifts mostly.
@@darrenleary5534 I found this video th-cam.com/video/0dysuh-0qJY/w-d-xo.html which doesn't really go into it but it looks like it uses 2 outside turns to make the inside turn on the way down like the first ground lift in this video. Pretty cool but I imagine no downloading.
You just sent me down a rabbit hole. I remembered that back when I was really young, I knew a ski lift with two turns. It took me an hour to find out more details since it was replaced by a chairlift in 2001. Turns out it was "only" a Viereckslift, but it cleared a height difference of 500m in a total length of 1800m, much of it going through the middle of nowhere. As a kid, this was solid nightmare fuel. I still get flashbacks of the anxiety that hit me whenever one of the turns came up, because I was always expecting not to make it. I'm just glad I didn't start snowboarding until way later, because that thing probably would have ripped out my leg on the long run.
I can’t believe how people like this guy could be so obsessed with ski lift function, but it does amuse and please me that some people are so idiosyncratic. 😊
Holy cow! They have one with a turn in Breckenridge, too, and they do that whole dipsy-doo that you describe before getting to the Hohstock. I always wondered what the heck they were smoking when they designed it but now it makes perfect sense! The inside turn problem. Can't wait to quiz my ski buddies. ;)
As a Yank I'm surprised to see people loading themselves on a T-Bar and on a fixed grip. Here in the states, we have too many lawyers and too many idiots to just trust people to safely board a lift without someone there to help them
In the 1970s Doppelmayr did a big sell of self loading T-bars to ski resorts in Australia. Needless to say people couldn't load onto them properly and after a couple of years of carnage, every one of those self loaders got a liftie to place the T under skiers bums.
In Romania all the T-Bars I've seen had a liftie. BUT. If you think you can't handle putting a T-Bar under your ass, you'll have to wait for the liftie to finish their cigarette, and you better let everyone else in front of you until then. I'm exaggerating a bit of course, but yeah, there's a liftie, who sometimes help, but they're mostly there to press the stop button if someone manages to get tangled, legs up, face in snow.
Well sometimes you have to do it yourself, and in my opinion and I hope most of my swiss and Austrian friends agree, when you are not capable to lift urself on a tbar u should not be allowed to ski alone in such a terrain. And thank god you could not sue someone because you are to retadet to use a infrastructure given to you by someone else.
I made a skitour with friends around this skilift and admired its unique way of dealing with curves. At this time, it was not yet in function, as the main season had not begun, but now, it is running again and I might go there skiing, just to see this amazing piece of engineering in function later this winter.
6:17 the tiny tube lift near my house uses a very basic cheap system like this. The bar between the two cables is straight and doesn't swivel. The cable is actually at ankle height and the bar is about 3 feet long to provide standoff (the lift slope is very slightly angled away from the cable as well so anyone who falls off slides to the side away from the cable) I suspect the swivel is only needed on this one since the cables are overhead.
Tatra poma solved that issue by using springs and protectors on big wheels. From my experience it was a little bit prone to accidents and the rope fell if someone dropped at the right time. So when we fell we know we have to release before or after that big support wheel.
There is another system with turn to the left (with people on skilift), system named now TATRALIFT LVH, before company named TATRAPORA from Slovenia. Video from ride here: th-cam.com/video/r6ABVBJmgYc/w-d-xo.html Video title: th-cam.com/video/r6ABVBJmgYc/w-d-xo.html Left turn time: 2:45 It’s max speed is 3,5 m/s so it’s really fast.
You have a very pleasant way of presenting; your voice is very calming and soothing. Audiobooks about astrophysics and philosophy would sound very therapeutic
My family and I always went to Blatten-Belalp, I learned skiing there! How nice to find out 20 years later that this lift there is really special. And I love the tunnel, that black piste was my favorite even as a little boy.
That's a very interesting design, thank you for sharing. I've always been fascinated by skilifts with curves myself. Another design option (the simplest one) is to let the returning T-bars go back to the bottom in a straight line (not always possible due to terrain). That doesn't require a lot of extra masts, as they usually are far above ground anyway and it doesn't matter anyway on the return side. Examples of this still in service are the Hauptertäli skilift located on Parsenn in Davos and the Hubel skilift located on Rinerhorn, also in Davos. They both have two turns for terrain reasons. Another interesting design not shown in this video is in use in Pany on the local skilift. It has a right turn using two wheels. Upwards you just pass on the outside, but downwards the T-bars get kinda smashed in between the two wheels.
In der Klewenalp gibt/gab es auch mal eine speziele Lösung für das gleiche Problem. Deren Lift hat(e) ein grosses "Noppenrad" um die Aufhängung dazwischen aufnehmen zu können.
Truly awesome! The only chairlift, which makes turns, that I have ridden is at Chaika resort on the Black sea coast in Bulgaria. It was built back in the 80s and connects the hotels up the hill with the beach down, making a 90 degrees turn in the middle. Since it is a standard fixed grip chairlift, it uses the "two sharp left turns, to make it go right" concept for the outward turn.
In Berwang there is also a Skilift with a turn it is the Thanellerkarlift. On the way down there are no curves, the anchor lifts go straight down again so that no curves have to be taken
This is my absolute favourite type of videos to watch! Thank you so much for making it, the explanation you give makes this video so pleasant. I came here after watching your other skilift video btw ;)
One skilift I know solved the turn problem by completely separating the uphill and downhill "legs" of the cable loop. The uphill leg (the one carrying skiers) would turn left halfway up with a large horizontal wheel, while the downhill leg would go straight from the top to the bottom. Essentially it was the hypotenuse of a triangular loop. It probably meant they had to cut down a few more trees but it is certainly an interesting lift.
I'm an American who lives too far away from any serious snow to ever go skiing. This makes me cry a little at the beautiful scenery some of you are blessed with.
I know this isn't popular in America, but VACATION. I have a friend who moved as a kid to USA, so he's pretty American, but I suppose he has vacation in his genes. As any American, he only has like 10 to 15 days of holidays or so. So he uses that. On top of that, he literally quits every year (not now with covid and all) for a month or two and goes traveling. He has no guarantee that they'll accept him back. His philosophy is that he has some decent skills to get some job when he comes back anyway. Up until now at least, he works the same job as the one he got when he finished university. They re-hired him each time. He's no genius that can't be replaced. He tells me that all of his colleagues could do the same thing, at the only expense of giving up the salary for that 1 or 2 months. He's the only one doing it though because he's the only one that appreciates 2 months of holidays more than 2 months of salary. I'm not saying everyone can do it. But those who're not living paycheck to paycheck can probably do this as well.
Unfortunately, these really ingenious engineering solutions will slowly but surely be replaced with chairlifts. Usually, the reason for such awkward T-bar lift routings is the need to circumnavigate some terrain obstacles. Chairlifts obviously have less or no such constraints as the skiers are lifted above ground. Cool video. Being central Switzerland based, I have never been to Belalp. I should go there before that lift gets replaced.
There are a few place in Spain (boi taull) and France (Puigmal) where at the top there can only be ground lifts because of the wind. At boi taull they even replaced a chair lift with a T-bar last summer because of it. So there is still some hope for these.
On glaciers it can be really hard to build lifts because the ice moves (though, very slowly). You can still build a ground lift and move the masts as the ice moves but chairlifts need more stable masts that are build into stone.
The solution I came up with was for an inside turn having a bunch of little wheels on the inside and then rollers or rubber Wheels on the outside that keep the chair in the cable locked against the outside keeping it snug against them would have to figure out the details I'm sure you could find a way to make it feasible. But yeah, this is so much more simpler and elegant and honestly it's really beautiful and visually satisfying. It's like the bank's on a roller coaster turn so in that regard this is basically the exact opposite of how a suspended swinging roller coaster works, where the track always stays parallel and it's The cars that swing on turns outward. Anyway thank you for sharing this with us!
The other thing you could do which would take a lot of work and would only work on the downward slope but shouldn't be too hard with little t-bars that don't weigh much, is to have like a guide track as it approaches the curve that pushes the t-bars up at an angle until they're about 90° sideways so that it can go around the curve as if it's now an up and down convex curve
This is not the only way. Cabin lifts are usually 2 speed so the cabins are detached from the rope on the stations and are guided by pulleys and it is possible to make a turn like that. This is what the Zehnerkarbahn does in Obertauern. It turns about 70°at the middle station.
Do you have to pay more attention to holding onto the T-Bar when it takes the turns? Or can you still just sit on it without really holding on with your hands?
The lift is a little harder to board than other lifts because the spool moves in all four directions, making the bar more pone to swining as it approahces you. However, once boarded, there is no notable difference. For skiers, the curves are not a problem. For snowboarders they sometimes require some extra attention because the cord pulls you too much to the inside of the curve. It's not particularly bad though. What makes the lift hard to ride, however, is the steepness and sometimes the extreme wind conditions.
The side by side cables and T mount idea was a good one. I believe it would make for a much safer lift over all, not just on the turns and supports. Nice video. Thanks.
I've grown up with the Hohwald Skilift in Beatenberg, Switzerland, which does a nearly 80° left turn. As Kids we would sit beside the turn and laugh people and tourists from outside, falling from the T-bars around the corner, as we of course knew the trick how to do it :)
Wow, what an awesome video! First it's very well explained, and I never saw the final solution despite being a ropeway enthusiast myself. It's pretty clever! As other solutions, there is the triangluar shape, where the descending side is not parallel to the ascending one ; or that Poma lift in an indoor ski slope with a bull wheel featuring a notch ; or on a bigger ropeway, that awesome "wave" where they used the principle described at 3:43 to the extreme, basically adding those tamer curves one after the other.
There used to be a ski lift at Killington in Vermont USA where the riders going up take a turn. It’s been a while since I’ve been there so I’m not sure if that lift is still there. But it was a weird feeling to take a turn like that while riding the lift
6:30 Not my solution ! What I'd do is main the main pulleys more like sprockets rather than solid pulleys - so the rope attachment points would slot into gaps in the pulley. The one issue with this would be in maintaining synchronisation with the rope and pulley to ensure the attachment points don't coincide with the larger parts of the sprocket. I guess the pulley/sprocket would only need one 'hole' to accommodate a lift attachment point - and the lifts could be attached say every 10 revolutions of the wheel. Perhaps a split wheel could be used - while the wheel continues to rotate, the gap for the lift attached to the rope could remain stationary while waiting for a lift to come - when it does, it could trigger the release of the pulley gap mechanism which would then pass once round the wheel with the lift and stop again after 1 revolution.
It is very interesting, there is another different solution in Poland. Find video "laskowa, wyciag orczykowy". They used instead of horizontal or vertical wheels, just a wheel at 45 degree angle. If you use horizontal upper wheel and tilt it a little bit, you can make a small turn (even in the opposite side than rope handle is projected). When you tilt the wheel even more, and use narrow rope handle you can make steeper turn in the opposite side.
Fascinating, we have a skilift called "Tatralift" (Tatrapoma) that has only one wheel yet is still able to do very sharp turns. Would suggest looking into that, it's very cool!
there is a t-bar at perisher, that works in a triangle to avoid this, you ascend up, where there is a bend in the middle, but the descent is a straight line down (over rocks and stuff)
A nice video. TH-cam was suggesting it to me for a couple of weeks but I was ignoring it because I thought it must have been some non-sense. But now I'm glad I clicked on it after all :-) The turns must be difficult for snowboard beginners.
For the first 6 minutes the only reason I was watching was becuase I love these accents and explaining technical things. At 6:08 though I gave it some actual thought, and when I saw the solution I got REALLY REALLY EXCITED. way more than I expected even. My solution was the cable is woven out of multiple smaller wires, so it should be possible to inserts it straight through the bottom to the top and weave the cable around that.
I didn't get the solution, maybe because he said that it doesn't use "novel shapes". The t-shape of the clamp is definitely novel compared to the usual t-bar lifts.
There is another way to turn a ski lift (the modern way). Just install a detachable chairlift and an angle station in which the chairs detach, and the rope turns without running into the chair grip. Then, the little slow-moving wheels turn the chairs. This can even work as a mid-load or unload station! Put it in one of your videos.
what do you mean by old fashioned, i have been using these lifts all my life in Switzerland - I am now 79 - and we had even worse, something that looked like a plate on a stick and you had to put the plate between your legs and kind of sit on it but not quite and there was another where you got a belt around you that was fastened in front and you had to hold onto the front stick unless you wanted to loose the belt and whenever it was steep or a litte bit wobbly on the ground the string that attached you to the moving part, would get loose and you would loose contact and had to ski down with the belt and get yourself attached again. In Arosa on the Hörnli it was like that and on the Weisshorn also. so these here were actually wonderful.
Used to live in Chile, at the Valle Nevado resort they also have a ski lift with a direction change in the middle. If I recall correctly it is just managed by pushing the descending bar into a sideways position to make the outward turn. It just separates the ropes vertically to avoid conflicts and has some bars mounted from the mast to stop excess swinging.
Love it! I always feel like the Swiss love to put trains and lifts in the most difficult places, as if they enjoy the challenge. Having built a few lifts, inuding a 500' rope tow in my forest, I have tons of appreciation for this work.
I know of a lift at mt. Killington in Vermont had a left turn to it. It was called “the south ridge triple” which was removed in 2011. Not sure how the chairs made it back to the bottom though
After watching this video I still have no idea how these lifts are engineered. Perhaps some drawings would help. Also, what keeps the skiers from falling off these tiny two person lifts?
They really pulled out all the stops for that ski lift! It's like the designers were just having fun when they decided to make the last support float!
I haven't went skiing since 2014, and only on a small hill, but the engineering of this ski lift sounds fascinating. :) One of the many reasons I enjoy science and technology, and traveling.
It's only a counter balance to hold the lines tight !
Am always amazed when people use technology which could potentially be harmful to them if it broke and thinking that its all "fun" !!!
@@team3383 So you mean literally almost every piece of technology? Are you afraid of planes, cars and elevators too?
@@GowGows I'm afraid of people who think that technology which is there to protect them is a bit of fun !
The suspended reinforced concrete block is suspended to tighten the cables and be mobile thus leaving some wiggle room for the cable which is not taught as tight as a violin string FOR A REASON. Not for fun.
Try reading correctly next time.
@eblman Wow. Did I ever say I was afraid of handrails, airplanes, Cars or anything for that matter ???
Again you do not read the English language correctly.
Do you think - as the Author suggests - that an engineer had FUN (not the general public having fun sliding down them) designing and implementing a handrail up/down a staircase ?.
Cheers.
I've been riding the Hohstock lift for more than 10 years but I have never noticed the geniusnes of it until this random video popped up on my YT-frontpage. Have to pay more attention next time I'm there to actually appreciate the technical beauty of the lift!
Someday I'd love to ski in the Alps. The extent of the terrain blows my mind.
It is truly amazing
Put some money aside. Our skiable domain is vaste but it's also quite expensive. Not only to ride, but for hotels and food too.
@@thierryfaquet7405 It doesn't have to be that expensive. If you're from the USA, sure, but it's very common for Czech families to go skiing to the Alps in the winter. I'm talking about regular middle-class families.
@@westboy52 I’m swiss buddy. Swiss alps are expensive… And the average income of Czechs is way lower than the USA
@@thierryfaquet7405 Oh, Swiss Alps definitely are. Everything is ridiculously expensive for the average Czech in Switzerland. But Austria is alright. Also when I said "when you're from the USA" I had the flight ticket on my mind, which is a good chunk of money. Probably almost equal to a whole week of skiing in Austria.
Absolutely amazing, I’ve been skiing my entire life and I’ve always thought it was impossible for ski lifts to make large turns like that.
The Hohstock is actually extremely fast and some years ago, you even went without ground contact for a second (they now filled the part in summer, so you don’t lift up).
Hi sorry what exactly is ground contact?
You mean since it’s a Tbar it would lift you while you are trying to hang on?
@@Svenshine That's what I'm wondering too
Do you mean air time when traversing a hill? That fast?
@@Svenshine probably just going so fast that you do a small jump when you go over a hill
No idea how I ended up here, I don't even Ski, but this kind of observation and questioning mechanical solutions or just "how things work" is right down my slope. Interesting and very well explained, thanks!
See what you did there😂
They have one of those wierd turns at a T-bar lift in Åre, Sweden. Since seeing it for the first time I've been fascinated by it
Yes! I believe you refer to the Hamre lift in Duved (adjacent to and within the Åre skiresort area)?
@@christopherjeverud8543 Yeah, that's the one!
@@alfredsaalo1441 there is one in Finland too!
There's one at keystone too I think
There are multiple ones like that apart from Duved. For example in Björnen there are about 4 of those. And there are more in the "rör kullen" area.
I've seen a button lift that can turn both ways through a mechanism resembling a middle station only there was no actual building. The bar would seamlessly detach from the rope and reattach to a new rope going at an angle, forming two loops. Some bars would dettach but others would remain and head back down following a logic I couldn't figure out. The real fun part began after the switch where the terrain would go downhill. So much so that your skis would start to outpace the lift itself, making it impossible to hold on to the bar. It caught me so unprepared that I had to do a couple of early dropouts to realize I needed to do a snowplow to get past that stretch.
sounds quite rough for snowboarders xD
That sounds like an interesting mechanism as well. I knew those existed for gondulas, but I haven't seen those for tow Lifts yet. I wonder which would be more expensive to build, the two ropes or the middle station.
@@dextrodus I doubt there's a significant difference. Drag lifts are relatively cheep installations that have a very long life expectancy. A reliability track record comparison could be interesting though.
@@gvaley POMA made a few detachable platter lifts back in the 1970s or 80s. They have a "magazine" of sorts that holds the detached bars at the bottom. There is a stoplight and when it turns green it releases the hanger onto the cable. There is one in Åre, Sweden (Vargenliften) and in Hemsedal in Norway. From what I have heard its absolute hell to maintain them compared to a normal platter or T bar lift.
@@maxcalabrese5962 Yup, that's the one I'm referring to. They still run, considering they were built in the 70s or 80s, so I guess they are not hard to maintain. But I've only seen one making a turn.
You should see the Pomagalaski/Tatrapoma button lifts. They can do as many turns as you can imagine having just one rope, in addition, they are detachable. All this is due to a special, but very simple attachment to the rope. Old but beautiful pieces of engineering! They can be seen for example in CZ, SK, or FRA.
Detachable ski lifts can turn in every directions since the fixation is around the cable. When the cable need to pass over a wheel, there is a guide to push the fixation to either side needed
This is definitely more cost effective, and a detachable station is limited in the angle it can turn
This is not true, to perform a turn the grip would have to detach from the cable with the use of a mid station, search "transarc tcd" on Google and you will see what I mean
@@caiwilkie6453 exactly
@@caiwilkie6453 thats how most of the bigger lifts works where i ski. theres a mid station where the lift detaches from the cable, then moved slowly with normal rubber wheels and lifted on the second cable after the turn. Its for 8 or 10 seaters usually.
An advantage of detaching is also that you can go faster since people can be gently accelerated up to the rope speed.
This is the best video on TH-cam. People must stop trying to beat it
Bro soo coool. Thank you for taking the time to make this video
Pristine snow, gorgeous vistas and elegant engineering - these are a few of my favourite things.
Lovely exposition - thank you.
As an engineer and a skier, this is the coolest video I’ve seen on TH-cam
My initial reaction to the question of how to turn both directions was to use detectable chairs at turn stations, but I have to admit this is a pretty unique solution I did not think of. I am not sure it would work safely for chairs and gondolas though, which is probably why you only see it for ground lifts.
Most of the ground lifts around here have been replaced. Still a few fixed grip chairs but even they are getting rare, short or less used lifts mostly.
Look up the Snowflake Lift at Breckenridge. It's a chairlift that makes a 45 degree turn
@@darrenleary5534 I found this video th-cam.com/video/0dysuh-0qJY/w-d-xo.html which doesn't really go into it but it looks like it uses 2 outside turns to make the inside turn on the way down like the first ground lift in this video. Pretty cool but I imagine no downloading.
@@darrenleary5534 I skiid by that last month and thought it was super wierd looking. Ive now gone full circle
It's so sad that most ground lifts are being replaced in most places...
You just sent me down a rabbit hole. I remembered that back when I was really young, I knew a ski lift with two turns. It took me an hour to find out more details since it was replaced by a chairlift in 2001. Turns out it was "only" a Viereckslift, but it cleared a height difference of 500m in a total length of 1800m, much of it going through the middle of nowhere. As a kid, this was solid nightmare fuel. I still get flashbacks of the anxiety that hit me whenever one of the turns came up, because I was always expecting not to make it. I'm just glad I didn't start snowboarding until way later, because that thing probably would have ripped out my leg on the long run.
im not a snowsportsman but i am an engineer and the setup to the problem and explanation to the solution was absolutely beautiful
I can’t believe how people like this guy could be so obsessed with ski lift function, but it does amuse and please me that some people are so idiosyncratic. 😊
Gotta say, a kid who could come up with that solution is going to be a genius..
Holy cow! They have one with a turn in Breckenridge, too, and they do that whole dipsy-doo that you describe before getting to the Hohstock. I always wondered what the heck they were smoking when they designed it but now it makes perfect sense! The inside turn problem. Can't wait to quiz my ski buddies. ;)
Nice! Your revelation is exactly what I was hoping to provoke when I had the idea for this video. Thanks for sharing your reaction :-)
do you mean beckenried?
@@philippkaufmann8 I meant Breckenridge, CO USA. The Snowflake lift.
@@cswalker21 ohhh thanks for the info! Will be there next week and hope to check it out
Snowflake lift came to my mind first!
As a Yank I'm surprised to see people loading themselves on a T-Bar and on a fixed grip. Here in the states, we have too many lawyers and too many idiots to just trust people to safely board a lift without someone there to help them
In the 1970s Doppelmayr did a big sell of self loading T-bars to ski resorts in Australia. Needless to say people couldn't load onto them properly and after a couple of years of carnage, every one of those self loaders got a liftie to place the T under skiers bums.
In Romania all the T-Bars I've seen had a liftie. BUT. If you think you can't handle putting a T-Bar under your ass, you'll have to wait for the liftie to finish their cigarette, and you better let everyone else in front of you until then.
I'm exaggerating a bit of course, but yeah, there's a liftie, who sometimes help, but they're mostly there to press the stop button if someone manages to get tangled, legs up, face in snow.
there's always that one guy who hates safety.
Well sometimes you have to do it yourself, and in my opinion and I hope most of my swiss and Austrian friends agree, when you are not capable to lift urself on a tbar u should not be allowed to ski alone in such a terrain. And thank god you could not sue someone because you are to retadet to use a infrastructure given to you by someone else.
Great Video 🎥 Thank for explaining. 👍🏼
This has been one of my favorite videos to watch :)
I made a skitour with friends around this skilift and admired its unique way of dealing with curves. At this time, it was not yet in function, as the main season had not begun, but now, it is running again and I might go there skiing, just to see this amazing piece of engineering in function later this winter.
6:17 the tiny tube lift near my house uses a very basic cheap system like this. The bar between the two cables is straight and doesn't swivel. The cable is actually at ankle height and the bar is about 3 feet long to provide standoff (the lift slope is very slightly angled away from the cable as well so anyone who falls off slides to the side away from the cable) I suspect the swivel is only needed on this one since the cables are overhead.
My Step dad designed the first heated ski lift. He said this was a great challenge.
I'm actually amazed by such ingenuity and apparent simplicity !
Tolle Aufnahmen, schön vorgetragen, gut erklärt!
LMAO when I clicked on this video, I did not expect to see that "weird lift" i spent almost every winter of my childhood.
Tatra poma solved that issue by using springs and protectors on big wheels. From my experience it was a little bit prone to accidents and the rope fell if someone dropped at the right time. So when we fell we know we have to release before or after that big support wheel.
There is another system with turn to the left (with people on skilift), system named now TATRALIFT LVH, before company named TATRAPORA from Slovenia.
Video from ride here: th-cam.com/video/r6ABVBJmgYc/w-d-xo.html
Video title: th-cam.com/video/r6ABVBJmgYc/w-d-xo.html
Left turn time: 2:45
It’s max speed is 3,5 m/s so it’s really fast.
that is a perfect definition of a genius solution. Just
Bravo
You have a very pleasant way of presenting; your voice is very calming and soothing. Audiobooks about astrophysics and philosophy would sound very therapeutic
When I was a child I used to attempt to build chairlifts using mechano. I was always fascinated with machines and engineering involved.
My family and I always went to Blatten-Belalp, I learned skiing there! How nice to find out 20 years later that this lift there is really special. And I love the tunnel, that black piste was my favorite even as a little boy.
I've been skiing for 50 years and only now am I finally learning how ski lifts work....
Wonderful video and commentary. Fascinating. Thankyou and best wishes from England
That's actually pretty nice. Thanks for the vid. :)
Highly informative. Thanks for sharing!
That's a very interesting design, thank you for sharing. I've always been fascinated by skilifts with curves myself.
Another design option (the simplest one) is to let the returning T-bars go back to the bottom in a straight line (not always possible due to terrain). That doesn't require a lot of extra masts, as they usually are far above ground anyway and it doesn't matter anyway on the return side. Examples of this still in service are the Hauptertäli skilift located on Parsenn in Davos and the Hubel skilift located on Rinerhorn, also in Davos. They both have two turns for terrain reasons.
Another interesting design not shown in this video is in use in Pany on the local skilift. It has a right turn using two wheels. Upwards you just pass on the outside, but downwards the T-bars get kinda smashed in between the two wheels.
Brings back memories, I spent many years in Belalp riding that lift.
That is exceptionally satisfying!
In der Klewenalp gibt/gab es auch mal eine speziele Lösung für das gleiche Problem. Deren Lift hat(e) ein grosses "Noppenrad" um die Aufhängung dazwischen aufnehmen zu können.
Thank you for this video. Appreciate it.
I just used those lift my whole life without thinking about how they work in detail. Amazing to see!
That is some unique, yet simple engineering. Wow the views are spectacular.
Truly awesome! The only chairlift, which makes turns, that I have ridden is at Chaika resort on the Black sea coast in Bulgaria. It was built back in the 80s and connects the hotels up the hill with the beach down, making a 90 degrees turn in the middle. Since it is a standard fixed grip chairlift, it uses the "two sharp left turns, to make it go right" concept for the outward turn.
Wow, awesome video, thanks for producing it
In Berwang there is also a Skilift with a turn it is the Thanellerkarlift. On the way down there are no curves, the anchor lifts go straight down again so that no curves have to be taken
4:09 this is even more complicated than the main highay interchange in montreal.
This is my absolute favourite type of videos to watch! Thank you so much for making it, the explanation you give makes this video so pleasant. I came here after watching your other skilift video btw ;)
Wow, that is really cool. What a simple and elegant solution!
I saw in the Verkehrshaus Luzern that this is the VonRoll patent lift. They had even chair lifts with two ropes. Great video!
I knew this lift on Belalp. Now I understand why it has this two ropes. Thank you for this video!
The parallel rope solution is incredibly satisfying, such a good idea!
Really well made video, you explained everything in a very entertaining way
One skilift I know solved the turn problem by completely separating the uphill and downhill "legs" of the cable loop. The uphill leg (the one carrying skiers) would turn left halfway up with a large horizontal wheel, while the downhill leg would go straight from the top to the bottom. Essentially it was the hypotenuse of a triangular loop. It probably meant they had to cut down a few more trees but it is certainly an interesting lift.
What it looks like when you have a mission but unlimited budged unlocked... Truly amazing
I'm an American who lives too far away from any serious snow to ever go skiing. This makes me cry a little at the beautiful scenery some of you are blessed with.
I know this isn't popular in America, but VACATION. I have a friend who moved as a kid to USA, so he's pretty American, but I suppose he has vacation in his genes. As any American, he only has like 10 to 15 days of holidays or so. So he uses that. On top of that, he literally quits every year (not now with covid and all) for a month or two and goes traveling. He has no guarantee that they'll accept him back. His philosophy is that he has some decent skills to get some job when he comes back anyway. Up until now at least, he works the same job as the one he got when he finished university. They re-hired him each time. He's no genius that can't be replaced. He tells me that all of his colleagues could do the same thing, at the only expense of giving up the salary for that 1 or 2 months. He's the only one doing it though because he's the only one that appreciates 2 months of holidays more than 2 months of salary. I'm not saying everyone can do it. But those who're not living paycheck to paycheck can probably do this as well.
So clever, and so simple. Great video - thank you.
Unfortunately, these really ingenious engineering solutions will slowly but surely be replaced with chairlifts. Usually, the reason for such awkward T-bar lift routings is the need to circumnavigate some terrain obstacles. Chairlifts obviously have less or no such constraints as the skiers are lifted above ground. Cool video. Being central Switzerland based, I have never been to Belalp. I should go there before that lift gets replaced.
Oh great, now I want to ride an opposite turn chairlift!
There are a few place in Spain (boi taull) and France (Puigmal) where at the top there can only be ground lifts because of the wind. At boi taull they even replaced a chair lift with a T-bar last summer because of it. So there is still some hope for these.
On glaciers it can be really hard to build lifts because the ice moves (though, very slowly). You can still build a ground lift and move the masts as the ice moves but chairlifts need more stable masts that are build into stone.
th-cam.com/video/lVdUHu4KFN4/w-d-xo.html
The solution I came up with was for an inside turn having a bunch of little wheels on the inside and then rollers or rubber Wheels on the outside that keep the chair in the cable locked against the outside keeping it snug against them would have to figure out the details I'm sure you could find a way to make it feasible.
But yeah, this is so much more simpler and elegant and honestly it's really beautiful and visually satisfying. It's like the bank's on a roller coaster turn so in that regard this is basically the exact opposite of how a suspended swinging roller coaster works, where the track always stays parallel and it's The cars that swing on turns outward. Anyway thank you for sharing this with us!
The other thing you could do which would take a lot of work and would only work on the downward slope but shouldn't be too hard with little t-bars that don't weigh much, is to have like a guide track as it approaches the curve that pushes the t-bars up at an angle until they're about 90° sideways so that it can go around the curve as if it's now an up and down convex curve
Well made video, thank you Kalsan! :)
This is not the only way. Cabin lifts are usually 2 speed so the cabins are detached from the rope on the stations and are guided by pulleys and it is possible to make a turn like that. This is what the Zehnerkarbahn does in Obertauern. It turns about 70°at the middle station.
Do you have to pay more attention to holding onto the T-Bar when it takes the turns? Or can you still just sit on it without really holding on with your hands?
The lift is a little harder to board than other lifts because the spool moves in all four directions, making the bar more pone to swining as it approahces you. However, once boarded, there is no notable difference. For skiers, the curves are not a problem. For snowboarders they sometimes require some extra attention because the cord pulls you too much to the inside of the curve. It's not particularly bad though. What makes the lift hard to ride, however, is the steepness and sometimes the extreme wind conditions.
Pretty amazing, thanks for sharing!
The side by side cables and T mount idea was a good one. I believe it would make for a much safer lift over all, not just on the turns and supports. Nice video. Thanks.
I've grown up with the Hohwald Skilift in Beatenberg, Switzerland, which does a nearly 80° left turn. As Kids we would sit beside the turn and laugh people and tourists from outside, falling from the T-bars around the corner, as we of course knew the trick how to do it :)
Wow, what an awesome video! First it's very well explained, and I never saw the final solution despite being a ropeway enthusiast myself. It's pretty clever!
As other solutions, there is the triangluar shape, where the descending side is not parallel to the ascending one ; or that Poma lift in an indoor ski slope with a bull wheel featuring a notch ; or on a bigger ropeway, that awesome "wave" where they used the principle described at 3:43 to the extreme, basically adding those tamer curves one after the other.
Huh. Funny you’re here. I swear, you pop up in the most in-roller coaster related content I can think of.
There used to be a ski lift at Killington in Vermont USA where the riders going up take a turn. It’s been a while since I’ve been there so I’m not sure if that lift is still there. But it was a weird feeling to take a turn like that while riding the lift
5:07 what are the witch hats and brooms for? :^)
Witches are the traditional "mascots" of Belalp. Look for their spectacular Hexenabfahrt, the witch race
6:30 Not my solution !
What I'd do is main the main pulleys more like sprockets rather than solid pulleys - so the rope attachment points would slot into gaps in the pulley. The one issue with this would be in maintaining synchronisation with the rope and pulley to ensure the attachment points don't coincide with the larger parts of the sprocket. I guess the pulley/sprocket would only need one 'hole' to accommodate a lift attachment point - and the lifts could be attached say every 10 revolutions of the wheel. Perhaps a split wheel could be used - while the wheel continues to rotate, the gap for the lift attached to the rope could remain stationary while waiting for a lift to come - when it does, it could trigger the release of the pulley gap mechanism which would then pass once round the wheel with the lift and stop again after 1 revolution.
You could make a sprung sprocket that simply moves forward or backwards 1ft or so to always align with the attachment points
@@ST3ADYxKICKS Yes, I'm sure there's a solution that doesn't need a whole second rope
BUT having a second rope is the sort of safety measure I like :)
From the title I thought this was clickbait but it's actually a cool vid. Well done!
It is very interesting, there is another different solution in Poland. Find video "laskowa, wyciag orczykowy". They used instead of horizontal or vertical wheels, just a wheel at 45 degree angle.
If you use horizontal upper wheel and tilt it a little bit, you can make a small turn (even in the opposite side than rope handle is projected). When you tilt the wheel even more, and use narrow rope handle you can make steeper turn in the opposite side.
Poma Lifts are quite popular in norwegian resorts. one wire, can turn, can deploy on demand, and fits all.
Great video. Thanks for posting this. Have a nice day.
Super cool video. Thanks for making it and giving me a tour of some resorts that I may never ski at.
Fascinating, we have a skilift called "Tatralift" (Tatrapoma) that has only one wheel yet is still able to do very sharp turns. Would suggest looking into that, it's very cool!
this video made me so happy hahah. Sehr schön erchlärt!
So far the Flaschen Gondelbahn is my favourite. It has a certain character. Great video, thanks.
This is a great example why engineers should rule the world 🤣. Finding elegant simple solutions to seemingly imposible problems. Great video!
This is awesome, thanks for creating.
there is a t-bar at perisher, that works in a triangle to avoid this, you ascend up, where there is a bend in the middle, but the descent is a straight line down (over rocks and stuff)
A nice video. TH-cam was suggesting it to me for a couple of weeks but I was ignoring it because I thought it must have been some non-sense. But now I'm glad I clicked on it after all :-) The turns must be difficult for snowboard beginners.
This was amazing. I'm gonna have to go and check this out. (Fortunately I live in Vaud, Switzerland).
Where is this tunnel? What is name of ski centre?
For the first 6 minutes the only reason I was watching was becuase I love these accents and explaining technical things. At 6:08 though I gave it some actual thought, and when I saw the solution I got REALLY REALLY EXCITED. way more than I expected even. My solution was the cable is woven out of multiple smaller wires, so it should be possible to inserts it straight through the bottom to the top and weave the cable around that.
I didn't get the solution, maybe because he said that it doesn't use "novel shapes". The t-shape of the clamp is definitely novel compared to the usual t-bar lifts.
There is another way to turn a ski lift (the modern way). Just install a detachable chairlift and an angle station in which the chairs detach, and the rope turns without running into the chair grip. Then, the little slow-moving wheels turn the chairs. This can even work as a mid-load or unload station! Put it in one of your videos.
As an engineer and skier, this is beautiful
great video and explanation, there is more to a skilift than meets the eye
what do you mean by old fashioned, i have been using these lifts all my life in Switzerland - I am now 79 - and we had even worse, something that looked like a plate on a stick and you had to put the plate between your legs and kind of sit on it but not quite and there was another where you got a belt around you that was fastened in front and you had to hold onto the front stick unless you wanted to loose the belt and whenever it was steep or a litte bit wobbly on the ground the string that attached you to the moving part, would get loose and you would loose contact and had to ski down with the belt and get yourself attached again. In Arosa on the Hörnli it was like that and on the Weisshorn also. so these here were actually wonderful.
I guess he means "old fashioned" as in "they were invented first", not like "out of fashion"
Thank you for sharing this interesting solution
Used to live in Chile, at the Valle Nevado resort they also have a ski lift with a direction change in the middle. If I recall correctly it is just managed by pushing the descending bar into a sideways position to make the outward turn. It just separates the ropes vertically to avoid conflicts and has some bars mounted from the mast to stop excess swinging.
IN Wildhaus, you have excactly that lift as well, they seem too like long lifts of such kind there...
Love it! I always feel like the Swiss love to put trains and lifts in the most difficult places, as if they enjoy the challenge. Having built a few lifts, inuding a 500' rope tow in my forest, I have tons of appreciation for this work.
Great video. I knew about Käserrugg, taken it many times, but forgot it only turns in one direction.
Woah cool tunnel! I wanna check it out! Where is this at?
Well Hohstock ;-)
@@sandro-here where is hohstock?
@@khatske At the ski domain of Belalp, located near Naters in southern Switzerland
@@sandro-here oh cool. Thank you so much. And how much is the tickets to ski there?
@@khatske They are not publishing and prices since season is over, check their website in winter. It's not too large and the prices are moderate.
Awesome info that I really never thought about on my ski trips. :D
I know of a lift at mt. Killington in Vermont had a left turn to it. It was called “the south ridge triple” which was removed in 2011. Not sure how the chairs made it back to the bottom though
After watching this video I still have no idea how these lifts are engineered. Perhaps some drawings would help. Also, what keeps the skiers from falling off these tiny two person lifts?
This is a very well done video. It's interesting to see how different and unique this t-bar is.
It's not really unique. There's a chairlift in Colorado that does it too.