Great video! When my car was NA it had AC, WP, 3G Alternator, electric fan, air pump. We dynoed it on a Dynojet with a load cell. It picked up 8 rwhp by removing the belt. Never ran it at the track that way it was fun just playing around. The biggest let down was switching from a stock TB to a 65mm BBK was not worth anything.
The MAF is so restrictive in these cars that the throttle alone could be a zero. One way to estimate the impact of reducing inlet restrictions like the filter, MAF, and throttle is to run a vacuum log on the dyno and watch for increasing manifold vacuum vs RPM at wide open throttle. If vacuum increases under those conditions, there is an inlet restriction and power can be improved by reducing or eliminating it.
@@tecmotiondyno I had installed a Holley Terminator X so it was Speed Density. No MAF. I might be able to find the Holley logs. IIRC the kpa did go down a little as RPM went up.
So you are saying you went from a stock throttle to a 65mm throttle on a car with Terminator X and got nothing? If the induction system delivers as much air as the car needs, bigger components in the induction system will do nothing, like the “no filter” change on this stock 93 Mustang. What were the other modifications on the car?
@@tecmotiondyno Correct. Stock engine from TB to oil pan. It had shorty headers, 2.5" catted H-pipe, flowmasters. 3G alt Electric fan, SD air box with K&N. It made 212 RWHP. We did some timing sweeps and adjusted AFR it kept spitting out 212. Put a 65mm TB open no tube still 212. In a last ditch effort it made 220 with the belt removed. It is now on flex fuel, turbocharged. Made 450 RWHP on 15 PSI.
When I did the “10 minute tune up” video guys complained that I left that part out and I guess I didn’t think of it because I knew it was a zero, but sometimes showing what doesn’t work is just as valuable. Like the “airfoil” mod on Ernest’s Camaro!
Great video Matthew! I would be curious to see a mass air meter delete test. Basically an A9L/Mass air setup vs a speed density ECM/no air meter intake tube, on the same car. Back in the day, speed density cars seemed to be noticeably faster (or was it just my seat-of-the-pants-meter giving a false reading?Lol). Have a great weekend 👍👍
In practice, this kind of test is hard to control the variables on because you are talking about an entirely different control software, and one that is not easy to get programmed to the same level as this one is. It is fair to think that the MAF itself is an obstruction in the inlet which probably has an impact, but a normal response to that has been to use a bigger diameter MAF. I’ll think about what kind of honest tests I could construct around this idea with the parts I gave on hand though.
The problem with electric power steering is that it requires lots of amperage to run, so you have to get that from a big alternator, which draws more power in and of itself. I worked on a foxbody with an electric steering setup from a Prius, and it was neat but not something I thought was a good idea. The truth is that the impact seen from the short belt is virtually all attributable to the power steering pump - I know that the air pump does virtually nothing to remove power wise, other than clean things up in there and make room for some other stuff on a modified. The power loss from the pump will be a constant so you are better off spending your time and money just adding power to the car which makes losses from stuff like power steering fade into the background.
I'll tell you what. If you are really going to put a Volvo electric steering setup in a foxbody, bring it first and we will baseline it, then put the steering mod on it and bring it back with no other changes and we'll see what happens. For the uninitiated, this viewer is a guy who had a foxbody with underdrive pullies so small that the bolts were outside of the belt radius on the crank pulley, and whose brother told me that if you had a handful of Explorer lug nuts compared to the stockers, you could feel the difference! So, every little scrap counts I guess. :)
I should also point out for the uninitiated that this viewer is a solosprint unlimited champion and bested all of the 911 turbos and supercharged Corvettes in that event in a Foxbody coupe that he built himself and that I programmed for him on the dyno, so other viewers should probably take his opinion on these cars seriously.
@eddiefalcon8316 I always think it is kind of funny running these stock type tests when I already know the answers, but I know there are guys out there starting from the beginning, and lots of these little tweaks became commonplace before the advent of widespread dyno testing, so sometimes things that don't work get a mystique built up around them. A legitimate test helps set the record straight. Thanks for watching!
Excellent video! I don't mind slightly cheesy videos and try not to indulge in videos ladened with piles of silliness mixed in with very little helpful information. This, like your other videos, was non of that....Just really good useful Foxbody knowledge. Keep 'em coming!
You know, I recently made a funny scripted short based on a real event at the shop and it consumed quite a bit of production time and no one watched it anyway! I guess some fluffy stuff is ok from time to time but in a world of infotainment I try to keep this channel heavy on the info and lighter on the “tainment”. I’m glad that resonates with you and others. Thanks for watching.
There is an 84.5" bypass routing option for the smog pump. Deleting the smog pump alone is going to give you virtually nothing though, and the short belt is an option that guys use at the drag strip to get as many accessories out of the picture as possible without actually removing them from the car. With a 2 minute swap, it is compatible with a track side change for a car that is driven to and from the strip.
The electric power steering will require a bigger alternator. The bigger alternator will take more power to spin so you may end up not making a difference.
It would be interesting to see. I know for a fact that switching from the clutch fan to an electric was a disappointment in terms of power because you impart a bigger load on the alternator. There’s no free lunch when it comes to accessories.
Great video! When my car was NA it had AC, WP, 3G Alternator, electric fan, air pump. We dynoed it on a Dynojet with a load cell. It picked up 8 rwhp by removing the belt. Never ran it at the track that way it was fun just playing around.
The biggest let down was switching from a stock TB to a 65mm BBK was not worth anything.
The MAF is so restrictive in these cars that the throttle alone could be a zero. One way to estimate the impact of reducing inlet restrictions like the filter, MAF, and throttle is to run a vacuum log on the dyno and watch for increasing manifold vacuum vs RPM at wide open throttle. If vacuum increases under those conditions, there is an inlet restriction and power can be improved by reducing or eliminating it.
@@tecmotiondyno I had installed a Holley Terminator X so it was Speed Density. No MAF. I might be able to find the Holley logs. IIRC the kpa did go down a little as RPM went up.
So you are saying you went from a stock throttle to a 65mm throttle on a car with Terminator X and got nothing? If the induction system delivers as much air as the car needs, bigger components in the induction system will do nothing, like the “no filter” change on this stock 93 Mustang. What were the other modifications on the car?
@@tecmotiondyno Correct. Stock engine from TB to oil pan. It had shorty headers, 2.5" catted H-pipe, flowmasters. 3G alt Electric fan, SD air box with K&N. It made 212 RWHP. We did some timing sweeps and adjusted AFR it kept spitting out 212. Put a 65mm TB open no tube still 212. In a last ditch effort it made 220 with the belt removed.
It is now on flex fuel, turbocharged. Made 450 RWHP on 15 PSI.
Nice, enjoyed this one.
Thanks, and thanks for watching!
Great video! Very interesting results
When I did the “10 minute tune up” video guys complained that I left that part out and I guess I didn’t think of it because I knew it was a zero, but sometimes showing what doesn’t work is just as valuable. Like the “airfoil” mod on Ernest’s Camaro!
Great video Matthew! I would be curious to see a mass air meter delete test. Basically an A9L/Mass air setup vs a speed density ECM/no air meter intake tube, on the same car. Back in the day, speed density cars seemed to be noticeably faster (or was it just my seat-of-the-pants-meter giving a false reading?Lol). Have a great weekend 👍👍
In practice, this kind of test is hard to control the variables on because you are talking about an entirely different control software, and one that is not easy to get programmed to the same level as this one is. It is fair to think that the MAF itself is an obstruction in the inlet which probably has an impact, but a normal response to that has been to use a bigger diameter MAF. I’ll think about what kind of honest tests I could construct around this idea with the parts I gave on hand though.
Good video 🤗,
Thanks for watching!
Great test! I do wonder the RWHP impact from Air Pump and Power Steering separately? Consider a Volvo electric power steering upgrade, net gain?
The problem with electric power steering is that it requires lots of amperage to run, so you have to get that from a big alternator, which draws more power in and of itself. I worked on a foxbody with an electric steering setup from a Prius, and it was neat but not something I thought was a good idea. The truth is that the impact seen from the short belt is virtually all attributable to the power steering pump - I know that the air pump does virtually nothing to remove power wise, other than clean things up in there and make room for some other stuff on a modified. The power loss from the pump will be a constant so you are better off spending your time and money just adding power to the car which makes losses from stuff like power steering fade into the background.
I'll tell you what. If you are really going to put a Volvo electric steering setup in a foxbody, bring it first and we will baseline it, then put the steering mod on it and bring it back with no other changes and we'll see what happens. For the uninitiated, this viewer is a guy who had a foxbody with underdrive pullies so small that the bolts were outside of the belt radius on the crank pulley, and whose brother told me that if you had a handful of Explorer lug nuts compared to the stockers, you could feel the difference! So, every little scrap counts I guess. :)
I should also point out for the uninitiated that this viewer is a solosprint unlimited champion and bested all of the 911 turbos and supercharged Corvettes in that event in a Foxbody coupe that he built himself and that I programmed for him on the dyno, so other viewers should probably take his opinion on these cars seriously.
It’s great that you do all these tweaks and test out on dyno since most of us can’t try this out to see what works and what doesn’t.
@eddiefalcon8316 I always think it is kind of funny running these stock type tests when I already know the answers, but I know there are guys out there starting from the beginning, and lots of these little tweaks became commonplace before the advent of widespread dyno testing, so sometimes things that don't work get a mystique built up around them. A legitimate test helps set the record straight. Thanks for watching!
Excellent video! I don't mind slightly cheesy videos and try not to indulge in videos ladened with piles of silliness mixed in with very little helpful information. This, like your other videos, was non of that....Just really good useful Foxbody knowledge. Keep 'em coming!
You know, I recently made a funny scripted short based on a real event at the shop and it consumed quite a bit of production time and no one watched it anyway! I guess some fluffy stuff is ok from time to time but in a world of infotainment I try to keep this channel heavy on the info and lighter on the “tainment”. I’m glad that resonates with you and others. Thanks for watching.
It will probably steer like a truck on the street. Isnt there a belt option thst just leaves air pump out.
There is an 84.5" bypass routing option for the smog pump. Deleting the smog pump alone is going to give you virtually nothing though, and the short belt is an option that guys use at the drag strip to get as many accessories out of the picture as possible without actually removing them from the car. With a 2 minute swap, it is compatible with a track side change for a car that is driven to and from the strip.
@@tecmotiondyno I thinking about that my smog pump pretty crappie. Thanks!
Was the air silencer pulled for this test?
Yes.
so run a volvo v50,c70 or s40 electronic steering pump and leave off the old school stang pump !!! POWER !!!
The electric power steering will require a bigger alternator. The bigger alternator will take more power to spin so you may end up not making a difference.
It would be interesting to see. I know for a fact that switching from the clutch fan to an electric was a disappointment in terms of power because you impart a bigger load on the alternator. There’s no free lunch when it comes to accessories.