What does War Music Sound Like? - It Depends on the Culture
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ต.ค. 2023
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French Canadian poutine obsessed savage speaks to electronic device capable of recording audiovisual files about cultural subjectivity and cultural relativism in music.jpeg
@ZoomerStasi parthian*
Hi, I would like to know if it would be possible in the future for you to perform the song. ( - ``Senhors, Per los Nostres Peccatz - Early Reconquista Song`` - ) ` Thank you.
@ZoomerStasi*Iranian (?)
I like that you left the hyphenation of "French Canadian poutine obsessed savage" up to the imagination.
Safavid@@Migue23227
As a Spaniard, discovering that your cat is extremely polite and exquisite in its speech at the very first 10 seconds of the video really makes me stay for more.
What does the cat say though? I think I can catch "puta" and "familia de prostitutas". Not sure if that's polite,,,.
@@Subsidiarity3 "You son of a bitch, let me go or I swear I'm gonna destroy your family of prostitutes."
@@Subsidiarity3 I only caught "hijo de puta" and "familia de prostitutas" so nothing nice...🤣
Mr. Kitty says "LET ME GO OR I SWEAR I WILL KILL YOUR FAMILY OF PROSTITUTES". I actually laughed out loud! 😄
Certainly as a spanish speaker I can testify he is a very correct and well educated gentlecat
the spanish cat is truly epik
What kind of cat is that?
The Spanish cat is hilarious 😂
It's not the most culturally sensitive joke, let's face it.
"War music cannot have a little high pitch instrument to sound valiant"
Laughs in British Grenadiers.
Original version of the Molgera theme from Wind Waker.
Little kid me had to fail that boss fight a few times so I could finish relishing in the shrill whistle lead. It's not the most war, but it's up there when it comes to fight.
definitely, especially considering on the battlefield you would hear none of that flute and high pitch, but only the drums, although units were equipped with fifers and flutists, it was almost exclusively wing companies like grenadiers and light infantry, and these were ditched in combat in favor of a second/third drummer(or in the case of skirmishers, horns). It was extremely rare to hear a flute or fife on the actual battlefield(mostly because its hard to hear over the sounds of battle compared to drums, and the core reason to even have these instruments was to convey orders between companies and regiments, as well as to the actual privates fighting in the line). Fife and drum was a combo almost exclusively heard on the parade grounds, and so was meant to convey the spirit of war to the populace.
That part when you talked about the Mazandarani song about the women jiggling her boobs made me chuckle. It kinda reminds me of a traditional Welsh song called Sosban Fach, it sounds like the most ominous, villainous song you would find in a west end stage performance, but it's literally just about a little saucepan simmering on a fire whilst the mother is annoyed because she cut her finger and the cat has also scratched her son.
Eyo timestamp?
Its such a banger as well
This actually kind of reminds me of a strange experience I had as a student. Going through the assigned text (Alfred's Adults Book One), there was one particular piece, I believe a Jewish lullaby (Raisins & Almonds), that I played over and over and over, even past the time the course ended because it just sounded so dramatic and kind of haunting to me. That's just a sound that I love, but there was definitely an element of "how is this a lullaby?" Since i couldn't find any information about it online, I just played it over and over hoping to figure that out. I don't really have a conclusion here, just felt like sharing that.
@@june5877 I had the same experience hearing "All the Pretty Little Horses". It's... horrific
The cat knows the knowledge of all the universe
The hard part is getting it out of him
Have you tried catnip?
you know not a bad idea@@aleisterlavey9716
@@aleisterlavey9716found the main character
fr
It's funny he mentioned the witcher in the context of mazanderani music, because "Lazare" Percival's song that was used as the fight theme in the witcher 3, is literally a Bulgarian wedding song. The chant that sounds so impressive and instills violence in the player is "Wed The Girl" over and over again.
Edit: I originally said Polish instead of Bulgarian, my bad.
Generally the use of flute and drums during the independence war sounds very natural to me, it's what they had there during marches: flute is small enough to be carried around and drums were used to help infantry columns to keep the rhythm of attacking movement since otherwise the column would break easily. Same goes for stuff like harmonica, it's easy to carry around. As an eastern European i'd assume that most of war-like medieval songs of my ancestors were most likely instrument-less due to usual logistical nightmares during troops movement here, if there was anything then I'd assume it'd be an equivalent of flute and that is it for the most part.
Also things like strings at tension take more care, maintenance, and preparation to sound right.
A soldier, slave, prisoner, protestor, etc, who's been stripped of everything, can still probably clap and whistle.
Flutes also have a piercing sound due to their high pitch, which is very useful on the battlefield if the point is to coordinate.
Signal horns are almost always relatively high-pitched for the same reason. A low-sounding horn just doesn't cut through the noise well enough.
That’s a great point. We’re often caught up in our modern first world perspective thinking ancient peoples would have produced sounds perfectly correlating to our ideas, but they most often just worked with what they had materially based on their limitations
@@EchoLog although a taught bow pressed against your mate's helmet on a spear stuck in the ground could make a halfway decent sound.
@@KarolOfGutovo I'm absolutely making a bow & shield washtub bass now, Thank you.
More musical subjectivity: "The Sailor's Hornpipe" in the UK is often played by Navy Bands when the King/Queen boards a ship; it apparently has a stately air, or vibe if you prefer, full of tradition and nobility. In the US, however, the same tune was used as soundtrack for Popeye the Sailor Man cartoons in the 1930s. Americans count it as a comic tune, even if they have never seen Popeye. Movies often play it when somebody's boat sinks or other watery mishap. Two modern western cultures, same music/movie tropes, the same music sounds wildly different to different ears. Excellent point to make.
You're also spot on about overdoing relativism: Some modern westerner dug out a medieval monastery's operating manual, wherein it stated that monks were obliged to bathe 'at least X times per year' [don't remember the number, but I think it was more than one]. Totally ignoring the abundant woodcuts and paintings of medieval people bathing, generations were taught that 'medieval people didn't bathe!' For crying out loud, monks are into asceticism, and ascetics in many times and places have skipped bathing as penance [let's face it, it's painful]. That very same monastery operating manual, by the way, budgeted a full-time, well-paid bath attendant, so the monks were not skipping all that often. No, towns and villages used public bathhouses rather like Japan today. But never-bathing fit the notion of medieval people as crude and barbaric, which went with modern notions of progress.
Similarly, Julius Fučík's "Entrance of the Gladiators" march was intended to invoke the grandeur of the Roman Empire, but today people don't associate it with the Circus Maximus, but instead with circus clowns.
Can't imagine what your lady friend felt when she found out about chopsticks.
OBJECTIVELY incorrect way of eating, you can't convince me otherwise.
I exclusively use chopsticks and a spork, sometimes together.
I'll go further regarding "some war chants" being high pitched and point out that almost every instance of historical record mentioning "scary war cries" also mentions its higher pitch - a shriek rather than shout or bellowing. From ancient hellenes and turkic raiders to the famous rebel yell and plains Indians shouts they're all ear piercing.
Putting that aside, the practical reasons for using high pitched flutes by XVIII and XIX century armies didn't really arise out of nowhere, it wasn't a new problem, saturation with guns just rescaled an old one - if you've ever been to a large medieval reenactment event (or, to be honest, a primary school during break lol) you have at least some approximstion to what an ancient battlefield might've sounded like. You need a really high pitch to stand out from the wall of sound ranging from deep rumble of marching/running people and horses (and chairs being moved aside without being lifted...) to the clangor of arms.
We also know that whistling arrows, whistles and such were often utilised by armies, especially cavalry, way before (and after!) the adoption of signal trumpets, although here it's probably a matter of convenience and ease of use rather than anything else.
I also dont understand the "war music=drums" belief, especially large drums. You can't just put timpani in your pocket and unpack it on the battlefield lol
"Hip, Hip, Hurrah" was an ancient Celtic war chant, as I understand.
i think the connotation of war music = drums comes mostly from the use of drums on the battlefield, especially in more recent history
The rebel yell is a fun one because it sounded like snow geese. That is one we actually have audio recordings of.
The think the war music=drums thing might come from drums being used to maintain the beat of a march
In ancient China, generals played huge drums to communicate orders and increase morale. It probably had a very deep and thunderous effect.
As a Mexican, I must say, your cat has a most exquisite and refined vocabulary.
it would be awesome if you could make an overview of war themes in different cultures/ different epochs, what techniques were dominant, etc
🤣🤣 Dude, the cat swearing in Spanish had me on the floor!!!
I remember what you said in your video about “throat-singing”, often at times we often have dark connotations, those of us in the west anyway, but to someone who is of Mongolian or Turkic heritage, throat singing would just be regarded as ordinary music. Here’s another thought experiment, if I were to travel back in time to say, Vendel parish Sweden 600 A.D and played the imperial march to a group of men in a feasting hall, they’re minds would not think at all of Darth Vader or stormtroopers, I think that they would imagine the power of Odin and get hyped, maybe a skald would be enchanted to compose a poem around the piece about masculinity, power, etc.
It's just as likely that the Imperial March would sound like brothel music to them.
This video reminds of a conversation i had with an american friend, about the kind of "soundtrack" of socialism. His immediate reference points were things like Soviet marches, and actually the (completely banging) soundtrack to Red Alert 2 (specifically the Hellmarch.) - all my reference points, as a european, were the sort of rousing optimistic ditties that a lot of us know the melodies and words to, even if we don't know we know. "Avanti Popolo" and "Bella Ciao" etc.
Just imagine people that can't speak Greek hearing the Cretan partisan song " ksasteria" (clear night sky) they will probably think that is a love song or something
Until they found out is about having the proper contitions to " make women widows and children orphans" 😁😁
Ah yes Hell march, an outstanding representation of Soviet culture and socialist music lmao. The “European” reference points are much closer as Bella ciao was an actual Italian partisan song and a cover was done by the red army choir
This has been my observation Farya, learning Western modes, Indian classical music and now stepping into dastgah music, that when we are dealing with modes there's no meaning to brand a feeling to the entire mode like with the Western modes. In Eastern/Oriental music, musicians were very clear from get go that each of these mother modes have several Avazes/Janya Raga that have a portion of notes or have an emphasis on a portion of notes of this mother mode and they develop a different, specific mood compared to the mother mode. That's a truly good approach towards making modal music. U can find warmth and sexiness in Phrygian then. Find funeral music in Dorian then. Find naughtiness in natural minor. And find spirituality in Lydian, which if you didn't divide the mother mode into smaller modes, you'll have never achieved.
And when we get good at this, then we begin to understand that universally a few sets of notes always bring out same sort of mood. Like with the melody of "epitaph of Sekilos", intro riff of "Norwegian wood" etc.
The Aulos goes petty fuckin hard imo, I love it when you use it in your arrangements. Woodwind instruments can be pretty badass depending on the context.
100%
I think a useful thing to do regarding war music specifically is to categorise it depending on the specific relation it has to war.
Is it used to tell stories about war or is it used with a practical application in war?
Is it something used during the battle, before or after?
Is it used to coordinate, lift spirits, or mourn the dead?
I bet these questions could account for a lot of the differences between cultural associations with war by explaining some of the cross-pollination you get between the different uses. Like the fanfare on the signal horn used to mourn/honour dead soldiers in the US Army, which originally came from use on the battlefield but through the common association with war, it spread into the other use. Whereas in other western countries, you get a church hymn.
Also, I find it interesting how the European idea of the marching drums being a war instrument probably came from the Ottomans.
As a Gilak, I totally relate to how the lyrical content of your folk songs can be seen as kinda goofy; I guess that has to be with Mazanis and Gilaks being historically proximal, both locally and ethnically. Being surrounded by lush rainforests and nice weather has given us a certain carefreeness
Wow there are rainforests in Iran?
About subjectivism, I think there's a strong point to be made about universals flowing from practical restrictions in people's lives, while subjectives flow from multiple generations building different associations for things without the original restriction. You mentioned the beard's relationship to masculinity, which like obviously beards are inherently masculine in all cultures today, and probably always will be. (Nobody @ me here, I'm literally transgender, that's not a transphobic statement.) And thats because of course the idea of masculinity has always been tried to the "unique" sex characteristics produced by testosterone. That WAS a universal restriction, therefore it produced a universal cultural signifier.
And I say "was" because theoretically with modern hormone therapies, that restriction is gone... sort of. Except it's not really. I mean, after all, its like what 2% of people are transgender? That means 98% of people in any given culture will still be held to the restrictions of testosterone and estrogen. Meaning, even for us trans people, we live in a world where we will always be an exception to the dominant cultural associations. A trans woman with a beard can be personally a very feminine woman, but her beard will always carry a masculine association by virtue of the material restrictions of hormones and statistics.
In that position it's still obviously fair for trans people to ask others to not be total cocksuckers about it, but like misunderstandings kind or come with the territory and aren't inherently rude/presumptive. So like even when people aren't being rude, being trans is kind of inherently funny for these reasons? It's like some Shakespeare crossdressing mistaken-identity humor just randomly sprinkled into my day-to-day.
Anyway, this could all tie back to music too, I think? Tbh most of my personal "insight" here is more like about my experiences with how western culture sees gender. But I think it can work as an analogy, and we can recognize how material reality creates universals but also opens up for exceptions. Like, for example, people mentioned in other comments about high pitched sounds making sense for war in certain time periods because it cuts through other sounds on a battlefield, etc. The material reality informed the cultural one, but the changing material facts also opened up culture to change.
Great points. A similar example it makes me
think of is blonde hair. Blonde hair *technically* isn't the unique property of Europeans anymore, with hair dyes being available. Something like half of Iran's female population has blonde hair now, but the intrinsic association with Westerners remains.
It's funny, when you first asked about war music, my first thought was Yankee Doodle, and then you talked about it as a prime example of a war song of the past. Which is fair, but to me, Yankee Doodle is *the* sound of the American Revolution
Hell, isn't the melody from a nursery rhyme?
Another example of shifts in perception is with Julius Fučik's 1897 "Entry of the Gladiators", a heroic military march.
Nowadays it's most famous for being that one silly clowny circus song.
In my experience, having listened to thousands of traditional songs around the world. For a culture, war music often sounds really similar to the music they will play for love songs, laments etc. They will most likely use the same scales for all these different emotions and most likely use the same instruments as well. Of course, this does not apply in every culture but it does in the majority of them. And I am talking about regional cultures, not ''Greek'' or ''Iranian'' where music could be very different from region to region. Also, again, in my experience, this is mosly true about folk music, when listening to high court music of some cultures, there will be more variations, since they are usually more ''sophisticated'' musicaly. This similarity in folk music may be dissapointing to some people, as they want to hear different scales and instruments for different emotions.
Quick Note: The song Misirlou is in what the Greeks today call Χιτζασκιάρ (Hijaz Skar) scale not Χιτζάζ (Hijaz) scale. I am not well versed in the original maqam music (Arabic,Iranian,Ottoman) terminology so I do not know if this applies there as well.
Great thoughts on folk vs court, it’s very true. It’s kind of like Epirotic music, it’s all mostly slow, lots of triple metre and pentatonic. Certain regions just end up with a certain set of sounds and go with those regardless of thematic.
When it comes to Misirlou it’s even more interesting, it’s both Hijazkar and Hijaz as it modulates between the two: the lyrics up to “Αχ Μισιρλού μαγική ξωτική ομορφιά” are in Hijazkar, but then it switches to the Hijaz second tetrachord from “τρέλλα θα μου έρθη, δεν υποφέρω πιά” to the end of the melody (and yeah the Turkish and Greek terminologies are identical, Iranian has different names though)
@@faryafaraji Omg you're right. I started playing it on my bouzouki after you told me and I just realized that. I've only recently learned these scales (Ρεμπέτικοι δρόμοι), but goddamn how did I miss that, lol.
All Spanish-speakers nodding along your cat's wisdom 😌
In Czechia, we have a "sub-genre" of folk songs which are simply called Marching songs, and we also have a long tradition of marching bands... That' what I always imagined "war music" to be like. Rhytmical, with uplifting melody, less like epic movie sountrack and more like kindergarten trip...
“War sounds like dubstep”
I would literally believe that about Reddit hahah
War music even in one period in one specific area can also vary A LOT, compare ''Over the Hills and Far Away'' to ''Johnny I Hardly Knew Ya'' or ''High Germany''. There are jolly and raunchy songs of soldiering like ''the Rambling Soldier'', melancholic songs about the friends you've lost like ''How Stands the Glass Around' and ''Here's to the Next to Die''. Patriotic songs like ''When Cannons Are Roaring'' and the well known ''British Grenadiers'' as well as humorous and somewhat ironic songs like ''Ye Madcaps of England'' and ''Rogue's March''. All of these are ROUGHLY contemporary, but have very different themes and messages.
Really when someone asks ''what does war music sound like?'' you almost have to ask what does war mean to that specific person? What does he mean by ''war music''? Because a song about death and suffering is hardly going to be the same thing as a bombastic patriotic song about beating the French for sweet Queen Anne. This is to say nothing of specific regional and cultural variations just within Europe itself.
I think one human universal is that going to war means alot of marching, camping and physical labour. And carrying a bunch of weapons and equipment around.
A second one is that a big bassy drum is heavy, and a flute is light and they can still be quite loud and the sound carries quite far.
So in the grand scheme of things, I think flutes make a lot more sense as war instruments than big bass drums. And they would also be a lot more fun to have around to cheer you up when digging yet another stupid ditch, or marching in the rain or to try and have a little fun when you get the chance.
One interesting example about how modes can be perceived in different manners in different cultures is Lydian Dominant. Everyone usually associate it with space, wonder and things like that, but here in Brazil, especially in the northeast region, it's associated with the Baião music, alongside Dorian or Mixolydian, depending on what instrument you play. Play a Lydian dominant melody on a piano and it sounds jazzy, play on a synth and it sonds spacey, but play on an accordeon and play the zabumba and triangles with the baião rhythms, which has similar beat structures to many arabic rhythms(I believe Ayoub and Malfuf are the closest to the Baião rhythms, but Baião is in 2/4), and you get Baião music.
This thing about rhythm and how it is perceived among many cultures is kinda funny. Here we have a style of music called Funk, which is the most explicit, overtly sexualized music I've ever heard, which makes even american rap sound evangelical christian in comparison(and surprisingly, TH-cam let it trend and grow enough to have hundreds of millions of views, just check Kondzilla to see my point), and although most of the beats are based historically on african rhythms, especially some bell patterns, Because of mathematical and patterns, some arabic rhythms like Maqsum would be considered funk rhythms.
On 15:25 you are ABSOLUTELY right. It took me months to get used to the drum patterns of many of your songs of the balkans and the near and middle east because of the association it has with me as a Chilean, one that dislikes that styles of music at that, and these videos help me to check my own biases and preconceptions of music. I am making musical ambience for a constructed world and your videos have been absolutely vital in not both learning basic music theory, but to think "hmmm...what if [x] meant [y] instead of [z]" and it has been a very revealing experience for me.
Small edit: As a Chilean, war music is generally very similar to cueca, so a guitar, piano and small choir of men ranting about a neighbour or something. It's only thanks to hollywood that war music for me began to include trumpets and drums. (Also I can relate to having "vulgar", "humble" or whatever term the more posh latinamericans or iberians give to our music because we're basically the Appalachians of south america).
Came for the war music discussion, stayed for the universals vs particulars distinction. The spanish cat is just the icing on the cake right now.
Great video Farya!
As a Greek Spartan music you put looks very warlike to me, also Pyrichios dance is very war like
I keep forgetting that you're Quebecois. Also, you are based. Who gives a crap about the people who have certain "biases" criticizing you. As long as you are an Independent Thinker, you are on the right track. One more thing. Sons of Mars, and your renditions of both Palastinalied and Skye Boat Song are my favorites. Especially the Skye Boat Song. My Scottish pride will never waver.
When it was stated that "Trumpets usually won't be used to represent a poor peasant" it immediately brought to mind the major exception, or at least one that stands out.
Namely, Ravel's arrangement of "Pictures At An Exhibition", the section called "Two Polish Jews, One Rich The Other Poor" where they are portrayed as having an argument - the rich man is represented by ponderous bass notes, and the poor man by the sound of a loud, cutting trumpet.
interestingly enough that mode described as dark by most westerners to me comes across as "mysterious" or "exotic" but maybe that's because I have heard it in it's native context without actually understanding the meaning more than I have in it's western context, I can however see where it might come across as seductive.
To me as a Greek it sounded more like a mother putting her child to sleep.
I am greek and the rythm of the dance of Spartans seems super epic to me
IKR, that party sounds like it slapping.
Farya, do you plan on making a video on Mazandarani folk traditions (music, tales, cuisine, clothing)? I'm pretty sure many would be interested in knowing more about Mazandarani culture. (Would you do a vid about Québec folk music? Asking for a, uh, friend)
PS: « FLATTE-MOÉ » is exactly what goes through a cat's mind when they want attention.
PS2: Don't tell the girl about eating with one's hands or chopsticks, she may never recover from the shock.
PS3: Did you go to UQÀM to have such a discussion on beards 😂 (stereotyping ik sorry uqam)
Mazandarani music be wildin and I love it.
Asking for a Tocharian song day 16
seconded
Great video as always Farya. It's funny your example with the spoon and fork. I'm Jewish and some of my family are Juhurim (Jews from the Persian Empire who lived in the Caucasus Mountains) and all eat with forks and spoons so for me that's pretty normal (like why use a knife if you don't need to cut anything?) but here in NZ I get weird looks at work whenever I do and have people very adamant that it's incorrect lol
Also, completely unrelated, but how on earth do you get your hair looking so good bro? I've also got long dark wavy hair but mine looks like absolute shit whereas yours looks like a Greek god. I need your secrets man
Your family history is so cool! And thanks for the compliments haha, all the credit goes to conditioners. The secret is really just overusing conditioners until the curls look passable
Just a funny note from Greece on the matter of men wearing eyeliner: There is a TV period drama currently on, The Witch ( H Magissa), set in the early 19th century, just before the Greek revolution against the Ottomans. It is basically about two rival families, one of pirates and another of more refined and educated rich merchants who live in Mani, in the Peloponnese. The men in the pirate family are all wearing black eyeliner, which gives them a more eastern look, adding to the characters a certain masculine harshness rather than any level of femininity or charm. It reminded me of how Ottelo is often depicted in the theatre or in Verdi's opera, perhaps a nod on the dark hair and skin that makes him an 'exotic foreigner'. Needless to say, many 'critics', and reviewers of the show commented negatively on the choice of make up for these characters finding it anachronistic (!) and weird, probably due to lack of awareness of eastern/tribal cultural norms and historical references. Thanks for your wonderful inspirational work on world music through the ages.
Loved this video as always! Really related to your point about the double harmonic being called "evil" in the West, I always found that strange since here in India, the equivalent raga is considered peaceful and meditative, usually played early in the morning.
Lmfao, I agree out of all Iranians persians were always the classy ones.
As an azeri I know lots of idioms, sayings or phrases in azari that people would use very casually that would include alot of what people would consider swear/vulgar words. It would make a Persian shocked lmao. Farsi always had a classier way to say the same things
Fantastic video Farya Faraji! Regarding aesthetics, the ancient Greek aristocracy began adapting Oriental dress, longer hairstyle and flowing expensive robes and culture. (Like you). They called it Habrosune, to distinguish themselves from other aristocrats and display their elevated status.
As a student of anthropology, I really appreciate the deep dive into how culture informs music and your balanced take on relativism vs. ethnocentrism
I think your example of yankee doodle is a perfect one, not only because of its difference to modern "war music" ideas, but also because of the differences between the real song and its actual implementation in the field. Although these songs have fife and drum, and today we think of line infantry marching to these full songs with all these instruments, that really wasnt the case outside of parade. Most companies would ditch their fifes and flutes in favor of more drums, as drums were much better at actually conveying orders(i mean what is easier for you to distinguish, a simple drumbeat or a fife with multiple pitches and complex patterns?). In many armies, companies were never outfitted with fifes in the first place, and they were reserved almost exclusively for "elite" regiments and wing companies(the companies that would be on the sides in parade, grenadiers and light infantry). Even in battle these wing companies still ditched fifes in favor of more drums, or horns. And so even our modern view of these songs isnt quite right to how soldiers and regular people at the time would have seen them, they would have probably thought of the complete song with all its elements as a ceremonial or peacetime element and not one that was actually used in combat. This is especially true of the continental army, and north American armies in general, as light infantry tactics and skirmishing was much more prevalent due to the lack of large numbers of heavy cavalry in north American battlefields(as well as other factors like terrain, and cost).
I think just the simple fact that so many of these comments on this video reference the fife illustrates your ideas in the best way possible. people DO associate that fife and high pitched sound with 17th and 18th century warfare, even though at the time it was a more ceremonial element rather than one used commonly in battle. Not that it is wrong to do so, but the simple fact that this idea of what music actually sounded like in battle is still misconstrued and affected by modern interpretation even when the songs themselves are from that exact time and WERE war songs perfectly illustrates the ideas you cover in this video.
Been watching for a while from Egypt. Great videos, great content.
Question where is this beautiful garden? Looks like heaven.
10:55 In reference to the Greek folk song whose name I cannot spell (auto-caption says it's "Michelle Lewis")-- I've actually heard this song on tiktok used by non-greek speakers to set a tense and foreboding tone. Fascinating to learn what it really means.
Misirlou :)
As someone who listens to a lot of modern Greek music (esp. laiko pop), I just think of Phrygian~Dorian as the default, in the way that I associate Ionian with Anglo-American etc. modern music. I guess that the brightness of Ionian makes Phrygian sound dark in contrast. However, Phrygian is just as suitable for a painful love song as it is a happy party song.
I know this isn't the point, but while I've never heard of eating with a spoon and a fork, I think you guys are onto something. I can think of a few dishes that combination is useful for.
Even when the french introduced knife and fork to my country, the people opted for fork and spoon. The diet is mostly rice and soup and the occasional noodle so knife is useless. Fork also can't pick up rice properly.
Yeah as pennyaredreadful points out, rice is the main thing: since most dishes in Iran are rice based, the spoon makes the most sense
they're not alone: th-cam.com/video/Cn26usXYkKQ/w-d-xo.html
In the Philippines, we use spoon and fork because we mostly eat rice+soup or cut up veggies and meat. I've seen Americans eat rice with a fork, and thats very jarring to see to say the least.
Are you by any chance in İstanbul? I saw someone on the ferry and thought "this guy looks a lot Farya Faraji"
Didnt want to disturb your personal space, but wanted to say that your content truly is unique and very valuable for the education of our common heritage and culture. Thank you for that.
Omg yeah I took the ferry to Büyükada and back to Istanbul; I’m now back in Canada but next time if you see me, do come and say hi!
Another wonderful video worth really addressing. Mostly because of the frustrations and sadness I feel about it, but at least for different reasons than before. I wish to know what music people listened to in the past. I am so devastated that I will struggle to grasp it because of my own position, and that recreation is so hard because the biases will also be present in the majority of artists attempting recreation.
But the exposure to other culture's notion of spiritual music and folk absolutely makes up for it. Thank you.
Brillian breakdown on a tough subject, thanks for doing the research on it i learned alot. Love the music you put out, Bless you brother.
Didn’t realize John Snow was Québécois
The idea of war music having to be big and bold sounds, and if it not, then something is wrong just shows that alot of people are only into history for the hoo raah manly man nonsense and not actually because they care about history, culture & the arts.
And a lot of the time if they are into the arts and all that it brings, they get really annoying and nationalistic,
comparing 'good' & 'bad' cultures instead of just enjoying whatever civilization they took a fancy to.
Like you said, It all stems from people not checking their internal biases. Too many people refuse to see the world from a perspective other than their own.
P.S. If i was mid battle and that yankee doodle ahh music started going I woulda started fighting for my life. Aint NO WAY im getting clapped with that goofy ass song playing.
15:07
As a latino, yeah, i associate that rhythm with that kind of genre. Which it sucks because i cannot help it. Its the reason why the Hikanatoi - Epic Byzantine music was troubling me in one fragment that had that rhythm. Where it says " Polataetiton vasileon!" and "Vivat imperator".
Dont get me wrong, its still one of my favorite songs you have made. But that small fragment always bothers me, lol. But i know Reggaeton was not your intention.
thats so true😂😂😂 it even gets worse with my stupid ass imagining justinian twerking to this
War Season from Lisa the Painful is the peak of that classic view of drum centric war music
NOOO GATO CÓMO VAS A DECIR ESO??
now fr, love learning with Farya.
So much joy to listen you, I praise your insights in to history.
For context: I'm Finnish and I was born in the 80's
I always really struggled with these ideas of what kind of emotion a particular kind of music was supposed to evoke. I remember my parents taking me to this like... idk music club is the closest thing I can think of to call it I guess, and the teacher would try to teach us the difference between major and minor by asking us to tell him of the tune sounded happy or sad, and I just didn't get it at all. I think I just kinda associated a slow tempo with sadness and a fast tempo with happiness tbh
I might have developed a bit more of a sense for this now but I still can't actually tell major and minor apart and music theory in general is just something that my brain doesn't seem to comprehend at all. Dunno what's wrong with me but it is what it is. And at least it means that I never had any illusions about my musical sensibilities being universal because they clearly weren't so even within my own culture
I'd say there's absolutetly nothing wrong with you and that's just the way your mind is structured, perfect the way it is!
Most disagreements or criticising on TH-cam and elsewhere stem from people not knowing that so many things socio-cultural or perceptual are not objective reality but often a purely subjective experience based on social or physiological conditioning. And it's actually hard to blame people for that a lot of the time since it's such a basic hard-wired process in how our brains work and try to make sense of the world around us by sorting it into recognisable (and unalterable) patterns.
It is our default position, as human beings, to believe that what is true for us is true for everyone else, and it can be very difficult to override this with the combination of logical reasoning and empathy required to understand that isn't always the case. In fact, it is hardly ever the case, except of course the socio-cultural patterns we share with most of the people around us make it seem like it's always the case.
Even when you know about this, you can often find yourself easily falling back into the habit of seeing or feeling something entirely from your own point of view, forgetting that there are others. It takes effort to accept the validity of what others know or experience, and even the meaning of entire cultural paradigms different to your own. Not everyone is willing or able to make that effort; or even able (it seems) to recognise that anyone else's experience even exists in the first place.
Within the differences, however, there are many similarities, but people tend to focus on the differences rather than the similarities since that, too, is a human instinct for recognising the potential threat from someone of another "tribe".
There are many musical universals. For starters, the concept of music in itself, its basic building blocks of melody and rhythm, and how it seems always to have been interconnected with storytelling and ritual, something that brings us together and connects us as human beings. Music is one of the most basic expressions of human culture, but just like language sounds and combinations of them evolved to mean different things to different cultures, so our music has evolved culturally dependent semantics.
Farya jaan, well done again! As an anthropologist, I appreciate your correctives. Have you taken a look at the incorporation of Turkish matching music into the e spirit de corps of the Western European early modern era? Mozart & Beethoven each have a piece named after the Turkish military march.
Wow. Much more love and respect to you for this insight.
I think a lot of the relativism vs universalism talk around like beards being masculine etc boils down more to what is common vs. what is appreciated. No, there's not going to be a culture that associates beards with femininity because beards on women aren't common even if that culture were completely accepting of trans women. However, there might be a culture that appreciates beards on women as a beauty standards because what we associate and appreciate tends to be culturally relative. Cultures are more likely to associate two things with each other when they commonly occur, but they are not necessarily likely to appreciate those things just because they are common.
love the video as always 🙏🙏🙏
i LOVED what you said about kohl (in my culture we call it kanmashi) that's 50% of the reasons i started wearing it 🙏💗 i genuinely felt seen
re: the beard thing; i'm not particularly well-read, but i remember seeing somewhere that in Qajar-era Iran, women with mustaches were more beautiful than men with mustaches? i remember also seeing a fair few miniatures/early photographs showing some Qajar women. i could be misrepresenting/misremembering though
i reallyyy like your point at the end; it seems (most [even this is probably not a universal] [or is it?]) universals tend only be expressed apophatically if that makes sense?
Back in the Qajar era, it was indeed fashionable for women to sport what little mustache a typical woman without unusual genetic conditions can grow.
I was talking about beards though, not facial hair as a whole. You'll be hard pressed to find any homo sapiens population on earth where females can grow a full on beard. All women have a natural amount of facial hair, but almost none will ever be able to have as much as me in the video.
I think the thing you said about eyeliner might also be related to how men, on average, have naturally longer eyelashes, so drawing attention to them or making them appear bolder would sort of increase that effect or make it more noticeable. The thing you said about how it was used to protect the eyes from the sun is also probably a factor in it as well. But I always knew the fact about the longer eyelashes, because it made me think about how women wear eyeliner in my culture today, though you could make a case for it looking more masculine, and it may be why my culture is the exception in that regard.
I don't like how lots of people say war music is always drums and trumpets, because a lot of actually good war music is kind of cherry, and calm
I know that you're Mazandarani but are you from Sari though? Your mom's accent sounds like those parts of Mazandaran.
Well spotted! I’m a Sāravi rikā :p
@@faryafaraji 😄 nice 👌
Hi Farya, I have recently watched Infamia on Netflix which has music and mixing of different musical traditions from different cultures as central element of story and conflict. It would be great if you could talk about music as a form of resistance especially in the context of a musical tradition living in a space dominated by a different culture. I would especially be interested in your take on power relations, radical music mixing and the birth of new hybrid music styles. I also recommend Infamia for anyone who enjoys the content of this channel :)
Yes cultural context is important to define what is war music because different cultures have different definitions.
And we dont have to go that far back.
In WW2, the Japanese have the song Battotai and it sounds vastly different from how the Europeans would make a war song. Like the Onion Song, the Battalions of the Nazis and so on and so forth.
Between universality and relativity there is commonality. Many cultures but not all kiss each other affectionately, for example
Talking about different interpretations of music, Dark Ambient scares people but calms me and even helps me sleep.
I always interpreted this as a side effect of my PTSD.
As a westerner I never registered double harmonic major as 'evil'... maybe it's just what happens if you throw way too much polyphony on top of it. I can see the imperial/royal vibe though.
Some people use music to travel "non-physically"...
I think that is a great way to discover many things around the world and its cultures and the variety of concepts that one can find... But being able to accept and emphasis each and every way that different cultures introduce their own music of any category, this is another level of awareness.
To live in each experience as its the only one that introducing the only meaning of "war, love, peace, revenge, glory, sacrifice....etc.", absorbing the energy it produces, without any pre-expectations and so, building a clear image in their perception and way of seeing things, it is really a bless!
This kind of dealing with every concept in every field through life and not only music, is the greatest favour someone does to him self.
Acceptance!
I would be interested in hearing more about iranian hillbilly musix
I remember watching a documentary about how Sibelius "Finlandia' had an emotionally response on Finnish WWII war veterans that was measurable as a pain experiance. Don't know if Finlandia was played alot during the war, but the association was strong. Just thought it interesting in relation to the subjekt. Thanks for very god and educational content. 🌻
13:45 to this very day "Somalian Pirates We" by Southpark is what immediately comes to mind when someone mentions pirates, while others usually think of the Hollywood movies. Music is entirely subjective, but the beauty of music also transcends cultural boundaries. I love Greek music, I'm glad you gave them a shoutout.
'Double Harmonic Phrygian', also known as raag Bhairav/raga Mayamalavalagoulai i.e. (among) the first raags taught to Indian Claasical Music students in North/South India respectively (and Bhairav specifically comes off as serene, as in Lord Shiva/'Bhairav' deep in meditation).
Barry Lyndon had historical war music played over the battle scenes and I think the effect was incredible, but that movie was pretty hard set on showing the time period in as raw and honest way as could be done at the time.
One thing that people overlook in terms of war music is that it was firstly a functional tool, and only later came the cultural significance etc. Where Hollywood is right is that drums and trumpets were common - but not so much to make troops feel more warriory when doing the warrioring. They're natually loud instruments and were used mostly for signalling and synchronising actions. Same reason why so many sea shanties mimic the rythm of work you would be performing on a ship - hauling ropes and so on. Marching music's main function was to keep units walking at the same pace, because unit cohesion on the battlefield since antiquity up to the first world war was a matter of survival. Sound of Aulos, horns or bagpipes travels far, so units would always hear which direction the front of the marching formation was. Yankee Doodle is a good example, it has a marching rythm played on a snare drum and a very simple, easily identifiable melody played on the flute which with its high pitch sound is probably one of the few sounds that could stand out above the screams and gunfire. Medieval war music on the other hand, was almost exclusively a choir of soldiers singing a common prayer together before aproaching the enemy. I think that while being historically accurate, could make for incredible scenes in Hollywood movies, but is seldom used, if, at all. th-cam.com/video/pIlsuU5_jfM/w-d-xo.html
When I clicked this video, I my take on "What does War Music Sound Like?" was - whatever gets the guys listening to it pumped for battle. I suppose I was right. But I mean, think about it, and the lessons from this video. Ever played an online competitive shooter, and listened to some music while playing a game, and found yourself getting hyped when listening to a song that you typically wouldn't consider befitting of being listened to while playing the aforementioned game? It's like that, I imagine.
It would probably be interesting to compare the evolution of musical conceptions to that of language. Your videos have made it apparent to me that the ideas and emotions we convey in music have as much to do with a kind of unseen language of meanings that changes as we do culture.
Also, I’m grateful that, at least from what I’ve seen, you haven’t used these discussions of culture and biases as a cassus belli to attack people. It’s exhausting to see everything devolve into a battlefield, especially where culture is involved.
God, i love your music talks
Thank you for making kickass music! Been enjoying playing total war Rome 2 and conquering the gauls and Carthage! Along with the Rome mod for blade and sorcery 💀
As a latinamerican. I enjoy dembow as much as sufi music. Is lovely to hear you speak so relaxed about this. ❤❤
War music sounds like a cat insulting me in Spanish
the whistle of an ICBM before the thunderous crackle of white phosphorous is the modern Song of War.
Its very trippy in semiotics. The study of symbols. How many things are arbitrary symbols. Like, there's no intrinsic reason why the concept of a tree is called a tree, and different languages reflect that in how many different words there are for one concept.
So true! An example of my experience is I NEVER thought of Founding Father Dr. Benjamin Franklin saying "Fart proudly." I was raised to look up to them as gentlemen. Culture shock indeed! I now find it funny that Dr. Franklin has a sense of humor and honored that he is my distant Ancestor via 23and Me DNA test via cousins!
Nice Video. I love your music.
Speaking of war music,"March of the Beys when besieging Belgrad".This music is the only real Ottoman Mehter march recorded in history. The rest(such as famous Ceddin Deden)are all written under the direction of Committe of Union and Progress in the last days of the Ottoman Empire.Because during the Auspicious Event, the entire Mehterân band was kîlled.
It's twist of dark fate , tbh that the event is called as auspicious event 😅😅
I know what it is , who were janissary, their control over the sublime Porte , and so forth.
Avram Avinu is a pretty happy-sounding song that’s in Phrygian Dominant / Hejaz Maqam
All human music has some form of rhythm because we all hear our mother's heartbeats in the womb
I heard about this famous piece of Renaissance music called Battle Pavane by Tylman Susato and it is part of the Battaglia genre of music imitating the sounds of battle.
First of all, what John Snow the cat said is enough to jump start any war and f*ck the music. Not needed as the rage is causing the blood pumping in the ear drums loud enough to drown out any kind of music. After John Snow's epic rant, the rest is just semantics. And I believe that is a human universal as you termed it.
cretan war music is very powerful. some songs like pentozali, sousta, malevisiotis
Hi Farya! Love your videos! I heard there used to be a Greek Muslim repertoire of Bektashi folk songs from Crete, could you do a video on it?
Wow, I love the cultural insight you bring to music. It really does make me think twice about the creation of music and what is considered good or bad. Is it really bad music? One culture May think it’s bad but it may just be they’re not used to how it sounds.
I think I died during when the cat spoke
Hi I play some traditional Irish songs and can remark that the major scales are used for darker themes, I think to bring humor to hard times some people have to try to work through. I don't think this is Irish but nearby, a song called Oh the Prickly Bush