@@bubbleman2002 I remember a lot of parts said by the narrator/the box text that went pretty in depth about why things were happening. They tried to add some of it in through ryosuke and the spectators but a good amount was left out. For example, there was almost 2/3rds of a chapter explaining how Kai Kogashiwas superior left foot braking from driving on the circuit was helping him catch up to takumi near the end of their race, and I don't remember that happening in the anime.
It really isnt. Although it does name-drop some things like "braking/inertia drift", it never goes into detail about how you properly do it. And as mentioned by others, it cut out a lot of technical stuff from the manga.
The inner wheel lift is probably the best technique Takumi had ever done. It's the perfect combination of both performance and show. It's a work of art.
I dont have a steering wheel and do not play asseto corsa or any other serious simulators other than beamng but dang this channel is so chill and nice overall. Keep up the great work fella!
@@kunaikilla Well... it depends on the amount of mods you want mostly, and the Dev team know that thus why on the Steam page they recommend 30GB's. The reality though is that the game is (currently) only about 5 or 6GB's in size.
Physics is pretty much physics and SRB plays Beam sometimes as well so it all applies. My first car sim was Beam, then got AC because of all the awesome old car and track mods, but sigh Beam’s latest updates that’s all I’ve been playing for a few months.
He was right. Inner wheel lift makes you lose contact with the ground which is not optimal, unless you do it in a corner that youll be very briefly going through, so that you dont need grip in it anyway. Think using the grass on the uphill chicane near the end on gunsai. You dont need grip there so you use the grass to get a better entry into a corner that will legit require grip. On top of that, in most cars when you go out of the gutter, despite lifting the wheel, if you have soft suspension like most kunos touge cars aside from the 86 drift and tuned, youre gonna drop one of your tyres into the gutter, even if its just a little bit, and as a result your car will jump up on the exit slightly, upsetting the car, and making you lose grip. Having said that, its not fast, but extremely satisfying to do on tsubaki line or nagao. tl:dr - inner wheel lift messes with your mid-corner speed, and messes up your exit in almost any corner type. Resolution - it's slower, don't use it, unless its for fun or style points :)
Inner wheel lifting is very common in autocross. You'll see it a lot on FWD cars since a lot of them have a weight distribution of 60F/40R or similar. I will take my own car for example, the Veloster N with a weight distribution of 64/36. It lifts the inner rear wheel a lot, even when it was 100% stock. The benefits of it for a FWD car is that it does cut the rear grip in half and allows the rear end to rotate. A lot of race teams actually try to avoid this when setting up racecars because they want to have their driver have 100% control of the car with 100% predictability. When a wheel is off the ground, it gets to be a little unpredictable of what the car will end up doing. Even then, it still happens to them because you can't beat physics. Also, FWD usually lifts the inner rear wheel on corner entry while RWD cars lift the inner fronts on corner exits. It's all about weight transfer. And when you see an inner wheel lifting, it usually relates to the car understeering. I don't know if Assetto Corsa will let you adjust car settings but if you want to setup a RWD car for this effect, try doing a very soft rear end and stiff front end with more camber in the front than rear. Running a mid-engine car and slicks for tires would help too.
its even in FD im pretty sure Vaughn and Chelsea ran inner wheel lift specifically for this reason, it allows for more grip and grip in FD is everything, moreso than power
You can get inner wheel lift on street cars with the right sway bar stiffness. On my FWD Honda I have a stiffer rear sway bar that causes my rear inside tire to lift so I can decrease rear grip and reduce the cars tendency to under steer and I see Miata’s wanting to lift their front inside tire while tearing up AutoX courses all the time.
That's basically the primary factor in lifting a wheel. Spring rate and sway bar stiffness. Stiffer front bar and softer rear bar will cause the front to want to lift, softer front bar, stiffer rear bar will make the rear wheel lift more.
I've lifted the inside front tire in a hard curve with my 68 Satellite Roadrunner before. Some people didn't believe me until I found a picture of a stock 68 Charger (which is the same car as the Roadrunner under the skin) doing the same thing on little pizza cutter tires. Another guy I know with a 69 Satellite with a full fiberglass front end has done the same thing multiple times. He actually thought there was something wrong with his suspension until I told him inner wheel lift was fairly common and desirable. The 68-70 Mopar B body platform was designed to handle as good as possible on skinny little bias ply tires so they actually drive really good for an old car once you put some good tires on them. Mine has just shy of a foot of rubber on each rear wheel and just over 10 inches on each front.
Ya I run a stiff rear sway bar on my vloster n to combat its tendency to understeer and I have got the back inside up before, but I was getting the best slip angle possible and I don't think right now I can do it consistently or when I want... no I know I can't right now.
@@Tycy2014 if you don’t have adjustable suspension you can try over inflating the rear tires a tiny bit. That will cause them to balloon a bit and less of the contact patch will meet the road so it’s like running a fake staggered tire setup.
its good that you like it, but please dont take any of his driving advice seriously. Most of his techniques are just displayed as being fast, but actually would lose you time in most scenarios as opposed to more traditional driving. a good example of that is the "shift lock" or this inner wheel lift.
I actually never even considered playing assetto corsa until I started watching your videos on driving touge in racing Sims a few months ago and it's been pretty fun so far, I average about just under 7 minutes on the akina downhill instead of 9 minutes now haha
Gutter dipping is also a known rally technique, called "hook" I believe, and a large part of the purpose is to actually lock the front wheel into the gutter to pull the car through the corner. Much closer to the technique featured in Initial D.
@@TSRB That video covered shallow edged gutters, and not hard edged gutters like what is featured here, in which the inside of the wheel can be hooked onto the gutter (this isn't the safest technique for your suspension, so probably not something you want to do if you don't have a budget or mechanics team).
your contents are so detailed.. i always jump into your channel when I'm stucked and can't figure out what am i doing wrong in my sim touge sessions.. Thanks so much, you helped me a lot! +rep
ts good that you like it, but please dont take any of his driving advice seriously. Most of his techniques are just displayed as being fast, but actually would lose you time in most scenarios as opposed to more traditional driving. a good example of that is the "shift lock" or this inner wheel lift. For actual driving advice id recommend channels like Driver61.
You can also do the gutter run while gripping. The gutters shown in the video weren't suitable for that though. These gutters also resemble the one from when Takumi battled that red miata. Takumi didn't put his inner 2 wheels in the gutter. He simply put his front right tyre over the gutter. But the gutters in Akina can allow for 2 wheeled gutter run, due to them not being very deep. And you can also see Takumi doing it.
i came to say, that this works while keeping the grip in front whel drive too, the trick is to imagine the apex a few steps before it would be in the simple turn and keep hard in the stearing while you are nearly entering over the gap
careful with cambered corners irl at certain speeds, it does help you corner but it can give you a false sense of safety and slingshot your car against a rail instead of the corner exit.
initial d taught me so much abt touge(heel and toe, tires gestion, slip angle, gripping, all whel drifts,etc....) it was the main reason i started to touge
Been awhile since I watched, but if i recall right from initial d- The "idea" behind the gutter lift is that it allowed takumi to take a shorter line / tighter apex through the corner.
Wonderful video on the intricate art of inner wheel lift, I just have one issue with how you described the transfer of grip. When it comes to the tires of a car they are designed to operate in a certain ground pressure range, often when you start transferring weight you will loose total grip because you will be overloading certain tires, this is ok because it’s usually those tires that are doing the most work like you said, but it’s important to note that this does decrease the total grip a car is making. In rwd cars atleast (not sure with fwd) the reduction in the grip of the front wheels through this transfer to the rear wheels helps with corner exit, thus the inner front is the least loaded, and if the car is soft enough and the suspension can’t extend enough the front wheel will lift.
The reverse is also possible with this same technique IRL. When I need to cut a corner that has sharp bump, I'll make that wheel "float" so the car doesn't get affected by the sudden hit. Same thing either direction. Especially useful when you forgot the track, but cut the corner anyways...
This works really well in rally as being on gravel negates almost all the downsides of it so if you're sliding anyways dropping an inside wheel off a ditch is very beneficial
It's not to make you faster. The whole point of it in the show was using the technique to have a tighter line so Takumi could pass on the inside by driving over a place that has no road.
You can negate the exit speed loss by using a "four wheel drift". By which I mean The classic Jackie Stewarts era technique, not having all four wheels burning rubber. The idea is to use snap oversteer at the entrance, then once you hit the apex you transition to a state of understeer pulling the car out of the slide. Funny enough you shouldn't be countersteering much either. You want to keep the slip angle as low as possible. Your inside rear wheel should be right on the edge of the gutter, while the inside front is actually over the gutter. The less slip angle, and countersteer you use the faster you will go. p.s great video I'm subbing.
the formula cars are still within track limits when they lift their wheels. i think its really more to do with grip distribution. trophy trucks does that a lot.
AC its not the best example for this experiment. It´s well known that AC physics are well acurated in track/flat tarmac surfaces, but when becomes to rally/bumps/ditches situations or lets say out of "track situations" like this, car behaviors could be very imprecise. You could achieve this better using NGP6 physics RBR, but anyway you made your point successfully. AC its better for recording and sharing though . Love inital D, Good work mate.
The point at 1:44 doesn't really add up to me "However, the car will want to distribute grip equally to all four tyres - and as a result, we actually waste grip on the insides, simply because it isn’t needed there." I don't know if I'm misunderstanding or you're oversimplifying, but this isn't how I've understood vertical load and grip to work. I've always understood that there is a near linear relationship between weight on a tire and the resulting grip. However this does approach a limit where the grip increases less and less for the increased vertical load. This means that, for example, a car cornering with 80% of the vertical load on the outside tires (which are doing most of the work) would be bringing the outside tires further into this decrease in grip. If the car was set up in a way that caused only 60% of the vertical load to be on the outside tires, all the tires would be kept below this point of decreasing grip. Applying this to a car lifting its inside wheel, the three other wheels would be vertically loaded more and would be providing less total grip, according to this reasoning. This is an explanation of tire grip I've seen in many places relating to rubber tire grip on asphalt. So I'm curious where you got your information, I'd like to look into it more because this technique clearly works, but I don't think the theory is completely solid.
I have been grinding the record down on Tsubaki for the past 5 ish months, and it turns out that wheel lifting actually isn't quicker at that track in some corners, because of the grass on the inside. This is probably an Assetto things, but even the tiny bit of grass makes the tire lose overall grip, slowing it down 'till the grass comes off. Interesting mechanic i guess, it does work on other tracks, and most corners.
In initial D the wheel lift wasnt to go faster. It was a technique takumi was able to pull off due to the weight balance of his car and his technique already pulling a lot of weight off the inside front wheel. The open gutters create a physical track barrier, and lifting the wheel over the gutter allowed takumi to take a line that shouldnt exist to make a pass.
yeah, that was the reason why takumi was told theres a different way to use the open gutters. Its all about weight distribution. His car wouldve been just as fast around the corner normally, but he was able to cut a far closer line on the inside by letting his front wheel float above the empty gutter
There are few conditions that need to be meet for doing front inner wheel lift. 1: RWD is a must, 4WD may work, AWD is no and definitely no FWD. 2: Shorter front wheel suspension and more stiffer spring as well. rear wheel suspension need to be softer and longer to ensure the lift. 3: It only work when car is exit the corner and when vehicle is in acceleration. that mean there must have enough traction at rear wheel to continue push the head up. This is actually very common stunt on off road truck, check on Robby Gordon
Could be a great overtaking move. Imagine moving to the middle of the road to stop the car behind you from attacking from the outside, then moving toward the apex to be cut off by a car drifting on the absolute inside of the corner way faster than you're gripping. You'd think, surely they'll lose control and crash into the guardrail but then they don't and end up coming out of the corner ahead and blocking you while drifting through the next corner.
@@pentilex4338 This is drifting. Slip angle is a Very Slight thing. Almost difficult to notice if you don't know what to look for. Slip wouldn't generate enough angle to keep the rear on pavement. Notice the countersteering. if there is sustained countersteering, it's a drift.
@@thischannelisback3153 If this were true most of F1 and rallyists would drift more. They do sometimes, but it's pretty rare. It's definitely cool as hell though
The gutter doesnt load outside tyres. Its lateral g force that does this and lifts the inner wheel. The gutter allowed viewer to see this mechanism in action more clearly and allowed Takumi space to get closer to the apex which was unavailable for his opponent without falling in
At a dirt track I used to race at there was a driver in Outlaw mini stock Had his car set up So he could lift that inside front wheel as he went into the curve and carry it all the way through the turn. No one could touch him in a turn. They'd be a little ford pintos with high performance engines.
The wheel lift in initial d had nothing to do with speed, it allowed for an inside racing line that wasn't possible by the opponent. In initial d, the wheel lift basically changed the radius and Apex of the turn.
The only way this helps is that because the weight is already on the left wheels, the right wheels aren't gonna wanna fall into the rut and you have more road to steer with. Inner wheel lift is the result, not the input. Removing ground from the right side of the car does not increase grip on the left side, it decreases grip on the right side. Luckily, the car is being yeeted to the left with enough force that you don't need the right wheels as much for that moment
Great video, small issue I have with it is that for the grip run it looks like you are in the middle of the track instead of following the classic out-in-out, which could really change the speed you can take through the turn. It also looked like you were turning in a bit to early but that could just be me. I should also say that I don't know what the corner before this looked like, this is just my observation
Me who see the video very times when you upload: Fuck a special techniques who now is common More seriously it's very cool your videos it permit for some people to have a tutorial and make it more easier it's better than do like me and training for 10 hours just for that 😅
Assuming street cars to have softer suspension (therefore necessitating the gutter for lift) is right, except it doesn't apply to specifically Takumi's AE86. Both anime and manga heavily imply that the car is modified by Bunta to a racing spec, specifically rally and drifting. MAYBE, despite being a modified car, Bunta decided on keeping the suspension softer (and requiring the lift) deliberately, to better protect the tofu cargo during delivery.
I actually utilize this irl in a civic. A corner you take at 110km/he can be done at 120-130 depending on road conditions. Passengers flip out, it's great.
ooooo.... very helpful, thank you sir, i got a question, would you ever make a vid on Toshiya "God Arm" Joshima's driving technique? One handed steering
ive never tried it but if i have to guess, the optimal slip angle is not acute enough (ur not swinging a wide enough angle) to let you have your inside rear wheels still on the road. but its just my guess.
Slip angle is shallow, but depending on the car wheelbase and your accuracy you should be able to partially perform it. If your suspension is meant to lift off the inner rear and you do that with the inner front it would be really hard but very rewarding too
One of the most counter intuitive things in racing physics. If outer wheels keep a major grip, I would have bet that it would PULL the car towards the outer side of the curve therefore making the car more prone to understeer as, like we all know, more grip means more rolling resistance. But it seems ita negated. A thing I learned by racing karts. I was leaning towards the inside of the corner when I was supposed not to or to do the contrary
in all honesty i found this channel because i wanted to drive like takumi in forza and now i am one of the fastest on the downhill of fortune island thanks for teaching me how to get gud
While the outside is loaded more than the inside I don't get how taking out the inner wheel adds any grip. Also the situation where it's beneficial to use the wheel lift over a gutter is quite rare, the speeds and angles have to match up perfectly or it's slower. The exit must be even smoother than a normal drift or speed is lost. I see this as more of a defensive technique to really block out the inside and bait the outside. I'd rely more on a clean exit to maximize when ever is next on the attack.
Brilliant video, but what about a 3 wheel lift? On a road I used for work for a few months there's one corner marked as "safe" at exactly half the speed limit, but it's got a huge smooth inside to the corner that let's even the worst handling car take it at the speed limit if you use the shoulder. The problem is they've patched a large chunk right on the apex which has lasted well, while the road before and after it has sunk. The 3rd last day I used the road I really pushed it and tucked in at over double the recommended speed for the corner, upon hitting the bump every tyre besides the front right (luckily it's a fwd) lifted off the ground for the entire exit of the corner. It was an unbelievable feeling to feel the car lift off and rotate the final bit around a single tyre, luckily I kept it pointed where I wanted to go and the throttle in and it just sat down straight and pulled out of the corner happily. I'd love to see you try to replicate this if there's any tracks with a similar mid apex bump
I love how Initial D just seems like anime being anime but it’s actually a drift bible.
They hired Keiichi Tsuchiya as a consultant, so it's extremely accurate! I think people focus too much on the visuals instead of the technical stuff
@@TSRB To be fair the show does cut out a lot of the technical stuff the manga had.
@@bubbleman2002 I remember a lot of parts said by the narrator/the box text that went pretty in depth about why things were happening. They tried to add some of it in through ryosuke and the spectators but a good amount was left out. For example, there was almost 2/3rds of a chapter explaining how Kai Kogashiwas superior left foot braking from driving on the circuit was helping him catch up to takumi near the end of their race, and I don't remember that happening in the anime.
@@s1l3nt30 you're right, you could only see him doing it in one of the scenes but they didn't explain it
It really isnt. Although it does name-drop some things like "braking/inertia drift", it never goes into detail about how you properly do it. And as mentioned by others, it cut out a lot of technical stuff from the manga.
The inner wheel lift is probably the best technique Takumi had ever done. It's the perfect combination of both performance and show. It's a work of art.
he slays his death star
@@mexicanjesus8672 English please
@@caledonianrailway1233 the greatest thing luke skywalker ever did was taking out the deathstar ae86 inter tire lift is taking out a deathstar
@@mexicanjesus8672 ok
finally tutorial for mx5 drivers
"If an 86 can do it, so I can do it too"
5 seconds later...
*Rage your dream intensifies*
@@darttroll7666 FR Maita be like
Miata becones airplane @@darttroll7666
💀
I dont have a steering wheel and do not play asseto corsa or any other serious simulators other than beamng but dang this channel is so chill and nice overall. Keep up the great work fella!
I wish i had beamng so bad. About how many gb?
@@kunaikilla Well... it depends on the amount of mods you want mostly, and the Dev team know that thus why on the Steam page they recommend 30GB's. The reality though is that the game is (currently) only about 5 or 6GB's in size.
All I have is an Xbox and forza so it's okay
Thats crazy small. Im gonna try to get it soon.
Physics is pretty much physics and SRB plays Beam sometimes as well so it all applies.
My first car sim was Beam, then got AC because of all the awesome old car and track mods, but sigh Beam’s latest updates that’s all I’ve been playing for a few months.
3:33 man, thats a lot of wheel lift. Your a pro at this!
"Inner wheel-lift, he's good but i doubt that such an artistic control actually contributes to his speed."
-Kai Kogashiwa
You forgot the i
Right before he got smoked.
He was right. Inner wheel lift makes you lose contact with the ground which is not optimal, unless you do it in a corner that youll be very briefly going through, so that you dont need grip in it anyway. Think using the grass on the uphill chicane near the end on gunsai. You dont need grip there so you use the grass to get a better entry into a corner that will legit require grip. On top of that, in most cars when you go out of the gutter, despite lifting the wheel, if you have soft suspension like most kunos touge cars aside from the 86 drift and tuned, youre gonna drop one of your tyres into the gutter, even if its just a little bit, and as a result your car will jump up on the exit slightly, upsetting the car, and making you lose grip. Having said that, its not fast, but extremely satisfying to do on tsubaki line or nagao.
tl:dr - inner wheel lift messes with your mid-corner speed, and messes up your exit in almost any corner type. Resolution - it's slower, don't use it, unless its for fun or style points :)
@@superspeeder9184 average IQ moment
@@superspeeder9184 didn't watch the video moment
Inner wheel lifting is very common in autocross. You'll see it a lot on FWD cars since a lot of them have a weight distribution of 60F/40R or similar. I will take my own car for example, the Veloster N with a weight distribution of 64/36. It lifts the inner rear wheel a lot, even when it was 100% stock. The benefits of it for a FWD car is that it does cut the rear grip in half and allows the rear end to rotate. A lot of race teams actually try to avoid this when setting up racecars because they want to have their driver have 100% control of the car with 100% predictability. When a wheel is off the ground, it gets to be a little unpredictable of what the car will end up doing. Even then, it still happens to them because you can't beat physics.
Also, FWD usually lifts the inner rear wheel on corner entry while RWD cars lift the inner fronts on corner exits. It's all about weight transfer. And when you see an inner wheel lifting, it usually relates to the car understeering. I don't know if Assetto Corsa will let you adjust car settings but if you want to setup a RWD car for this effect, try doing a very soft rear end and stiff front end with more camber in the front than rear. Running a mid-engine car and slicks for tires would help too.
its even in FD im pretty sure Vaughn and Chelsea ran inner wheel lift specifically for this reason, it allows for more grip and grip in FD is everything, moreso than power
i wish tsrb was as well-informed about racing as you are, thanks for this comment, i learned something new!
I hear inner wheel lift and I think of Jordan Cox’s EG civic
You can get inner wheel lift on street cars with the right sway bar stiffness. On my FWD Honda I have a stiffer rear sway bar that causes my rear inside tire to lift so I can decrease rear grip and reduce the cars tendency to under steer and I see Miata’s wanting to lift their front inside tire while tearing up AutoX courses all the time.
That's basically the primary factor in lifting a wheel. Spring rate and sway bar stiffness. Stiffer front bar and softer rear bar will cause the front to want to lift, softer front bar, stiffer rear bar will make the rear wheel lift more.
I've lifted the inside front tire in a hard curve with my 68 Satellite Roadrunner before. Some people didn't believe me until I found a picture of a stock 68 Charger (which is the same car as the Roadrunner under the skin) doing the same thing on little pizza cutter tires. Another guy I know with a 69 Satellite with a full fiberglass front end has done the same thing multiple times. He actually thought there was something wrong with his suspension until I told him inner wheel lift was fairly common and desirable.
The 68-70 Mopar B body platform was designed to handle as good as possible on skinny little bias ply tires so they actually drive really good for an old car once you put some good tires on them. Mine has just shy of a foot of rubber on each rear wheel and just over 10 inches on each front.
My wrx wagon was getting the rear inside wheel off the ground a surprising amount on track
Ya I run a stiff rear sway bar on my vloster n to combat its tendency to understeer and I have got the back inside up before, but I was getting the best slip angle possible and I don't think right now I can do it consistently or when I want... no I know I can't right now.
@@Tycy2014 if you don’t have adjustable suspension you can try over inflating the rear tires a tiny bit. That will cause them to balloon a bit and less of the contact patch will meet the road so it’s like running a fake staggered tire setup.
I love this kind of content, keep it up! You're doing a fantastic job explaining everything!
owo
its good that you like it, but please dont take any of his driving advice seriously. Most of his techniques are just displayed as being fast, but actually would lose you time in most scenarios as opposed to more traditional driving. a good example of that is the "shift lock" or this inner wheel lift.
I actually never even considered playing assetto corsa until I started watching your videos on driving touge in racing Sims a few months ago and it's been pretty fun so far, I average about just under 7 minutes on the akina downhill instead of 9 minutes now haha
Gutter dipping is also a known rally technique, called "hook" I believe, and a large part of the purpose is to actually lock the front wheel into the gutter to pull the car through the corner. Much closer to the technique featured in Initial D.
Both were in initial D and I've actually made a vid on the other one already! :)
@@TSRB That video covered shallow edged gutters, and not hard edged gutters like what is featured here, in which the inside of the wheel can be hooked onto the gutter (this isn't the safest technique for your suspension, so probably not something you want to do if you don't have a budget or mechanics team).
your contents are so detailed.. i always jump into your channel when I'm stucked and can't figure out what am i doing wrong in my sim touge sessions.. Thanks so much, you helped me a lot! +rep
ts good that you like it, but please dont take any of his driving advice seriously. Most of his techniques are just displayed as being fast, but actually would lose you time in most scenarios as opposed to more traditional driving. a good example of that is the "shift lock" or this inner wheel lift. For actual driving advice id recommend channels like Driver61.
You can also do the gutter run while gripping. The gutters shown in the video weren't suitable for that though. These gutters also resemble the one from when Takumi battled that red miata. Takumi didn't put his inner 2 wheels in the gutter. He simply put his front right tyre over the gutter. But the gutters in Akina can allow for 2 wheeled gutter run, due to them not being very deep. And you can also see Takumi doing it.
Love your content man, especially these guides. Keep it up
Damn son a stamp of approval from the leader of Project D
AAAAAAAAAAAAA RYOSUKE
Yea approved boi
i came to say, that this works while keeping the grip in front whel drive too, the trick is to imagine the apex a few steps before it would be in the simple turn and keep hard in the stearing while you are nearly entering over the gap
careful with cambered corners irl at certain speeds, it does help you corner but it can give you a false sense of safety and slingshot your car against a rail instead of the corner exit.
4:45 WHAT A BEAUTIFUL TRANSITION!
initial d taught me so much abt touge(heel and toe, tires gestion, slip angle, gripping, all whel drifts,etc....)
it was the main reason i started to touge
7:09 thats me!!!!
ayo fr.
@@wh0isgeorgee270 in the comments section
I’m loving the new videos, it’s good how you’re doing some real life examples with the touge examples
Great stuff! Wish I found your channel sooner, you have great production quality!
I love how u explained this even watching initial D I can understand it but u make it more understandable
Always contextual content, that’s why I loved this channel. Really helps to improve my driving!
Been awhile since I watched, but if i recall right from initial d- The "idea" behind the gutter lift is that it allowed takumi to take a shorter line / tighter apex through the corner.
The production value of these videos is second to none, subbed!
2:33 I did smashing the like button like in the video, covered eyes for random amount of clicks and boom, landed on a like
Wonderful video on the intricate art of inner wheel lift, I just have one issue with how you described the transfer of grip. When it comes to the tires of a car they are designed to operate in a certain ground pressure range, often when you start transferring weight you will loose total grip because you will be overloading certain tires, this is ok because it’s usually those tires that are doing the most work like you said, but it’s important to note that this does decrease the total grip a car is making. In rwd cars atleast (not sure with fwd) the reduction in the grip of the front wheels through this transfer to the rear wheels helps with corner exit, thus the inner front is the least loaded, and if the car is soft enough and the suspension can’t extend enough the front wheel will lift.
“From f1 cars to trophy trucks”
*shows pictures of Robby Gordon’s Super stadium truck*
Me: *confused driver noises*
This is amazing mate! And i have noticed that this is something i always did on certain tracks without even knowing it WOW
The reverse is also possible with this same technique IRL. When I need to cut a corner that has sharp bump, I'll make that wheel "float" so the car doesn't get affected by the sudden hit. Same thing either direction. Especially useful when you forgot the track, but cut the corner anyways...
This works really well in rally as being on gravel negates almost all the downsides of it so if you're sliding anyways dropping an inside wheel off a ditch is very beneficial
It's not to make you faster. The whole point of it in the show was using the technique to have a tighter line so Takumi could pass on the inside by driving over a place that has no road.
What a fantastic channel you have, your hard work doesnt go unnoticed. Great writing, and pacing. And so goddamn informative!
You can negate the exit speed loss by using a "four wheel drift". By which I mean The classic Jackie Stewarts era technique, not having all four wheels burning rubber. The idea is to use snap oversteer at the entrance, then once you hit the apex you transition to a state of understeer pulling the car out of the slide. Funny enough you shouldn't be countersteering much either. You want to keep the slip angle as low as possible. Your inside rear wheel should be right on the edge of the gutter, while the inside front is actually over the gutter. The less slip angle, and countersteer you use the faster you will go. p.s great video I'm subbing.
3:29 history repeats
*If an 86 can do it*
Is you fav colour yellow
Lol
i'm pretty sure wheel lifting makes you faster because you're basically using more space, making the corner bigger.
the formula cars are still within track limits when they lift their wheels. i think its really more to do with grip distribution. trophy trucks does that a lot.
A lot of rally stages allow us to inner lift effectively. Fun stuff.
AC its not the best example for this experiment. It´s well known that AC physics are well acurated in track/flat tarmac surfaces, but when becomes to rally/bumps/ditches situations or lets say out of "track situations" like this, car behaviors could be very imprecise. You could achieve this better using NGP6 physics RBR, but anyway you made your point successfully. AC its better for recording and sharing though . Love inital D, Good work mate.
I've asked for it and ITS HERE!
Nice video
This channel is so underrated!
Slip Angle + this technique = More than a Legendary driver
The point at 1:44 doesn't really add up to me "However, the car will want to distribute grip equally to all four tyres - and as a result, we actually waste grip on the insides, simply because it isn’t needed there." I don't know if I'm misunderstanding or you're oversimplifying, but this isn't how I've understood vertical load and grip to work.
I've always understood that there is a near linear relationship between weight on a tire and the resulting grip. However this does approach a limit where the grip increases less and less for the increased vertical load. This means that, for example, a car cornering with 80% of the vertical load on the outside tires (which are doing most of the work) would be bringing the outside tires further into this decrease in grip. If the car was set up in a way that caused only 60% of the vertical load to be on the outside tires, all the tires would be kept below this point of decreasing grip.
Applying this to a car lifting its inside wheel, the three other wheels would be vertically loaded more and would be providing less total grip, according to this reasoning. This is an explanation of tire grip I've seen in many places relating to rubber tire grip on asphalt. So I'm curious where you got your information, I'd like to look into it more because this technique clearly works, but I don't think the theory is completely solid.
I have been grinding the record down on Tsubaki for the past 5 ish months, and it turns out that wheel lifting actually isn't quicker at that track in some corners, because of the grass on the inside. This is probably an Assetto things, but even the tiny bit of grass makes the tire lose overall grip, slowing it down 'till the grass comes off. Interesting mechanic i guess, it does work on other tracks, and most corners.
In initial D the wheel lift wasnt to go faster. It was a technique takumi was able to pull off due to the weight balance of his car and his technique already pulling a lot of weight off the inside front wheel. The open gutters create a physical track barrier, and lifting the wheel over the gutter allowed takumi to take a line that shouldnt exist to make a pass.
I think gutters like that can also help a bit because you are more on the inside of the corner
yeah, that was the reason why takumi was told theres a different way to use the open gutters. Its all about weight distribution. His car wouldve been just as fast around the corner normally, but he was able to cut a far closer line on the inside by letting his front wheel float above the empty gutter
There are few conditions that need to be meet for doing front inner wheel lift.
1: RWD is a must, 4WD may work, AWD is no and definitely no FWD.
2: Shorter front wheel suspension and more stiffer spring as well. rear wheel suspension need to be softer and longer to ensure the lift.
3: It only work when car is exit the corner and when vehicle is in acceleration. that mean there must have enough traction at rear wheel to continue push the head up.
This is actually very common stunt on off road truck, check on Robby Gordon
Could be a great overtaking move. Imagine moving to the middle of the road to stop the car behind you from attacking from the outside, then moving toward the apex to be cut off by a car drifting on the absolute inside of the corner way faster than you're gripping. You'd think, surely they'll lose control and crash into the guardrail but then they don't and end up coming out of the corner ahead and blocking you while drifting through the next corner.
I've found that lifting the inner wheel is easy to practice on usui short's first few corners
I use this with slip angle it eliminates problems
Honestly it's one of the only techniques that makes drifting faster than gripping.
It's not drifting, it's slip angle. You haven't actually broken traction, you're just close to it.
@@pentilex4338 This is drifting. Slip angle is a Very Slight thing. Almost difficult to notice if you don't know what to look for. Slip wouldn't generate enough angle to keep the rear on pavement. Notice the countersteering. if there is sustained countersteering, it's a drift.
drift is faster if you do it right
@@thischannelisback3153 If this were true most of F1 and rallyists would drift more. They do sometimes, but it's pretty rare. It's definitely cool as hell though
@@youraveragegamer8832they might be doing four wheel drift or slip angle
The gutter doesnt load outside tyres. Its lateral g force that does this and lifts the inner wheel. The gutter allowed viewer to see this mechanism in action more clearly and allowed Takumi space to get closer to the apex which was unavailable for his opponent without falling in
At a dirt track I used to race at there was a driver in Outlaw mini stock Had his car set up So he could lift that inside front wheel as he went into the curve and carry it all the way through the turn. No one could touch him in a turn. They'd be a little ford pintos with high performance engines.
The wheel lift in initial d had nothing to do with speed, it allowed for an inside racing line that wasn't possible by the opponent. In initial d, the wheel lift basically changed the radius and Apex of the turn.
Ngl if i have this setup for Asseto Corsa i will try all your techniques that you show on this video good job
Can you pls go through the best hairpin method for RWD, FWD and 4WD?
The only way this helps is that because the weight is already on the left wheels, the right wheels aren't gonna wanna fall into the rut and you have more road to steer with. Inner wheel lift is the result, not the input. Removing ground from the right side of the car does not increase grip on the left side, it decreases grip on the right side. Luckily, the car is being yeeted to the left with enough force that you don't need the right wheels as much for that moment
Great video, small issue I have with it is that for the grip run it looks like you are in the middle of the track instead of following the classic out-in-out, which could really change the speed you can take through the turn. It also looked like you were turning in a bit to early but that could just be me. I should also say that I don't know what the corner before this looked like, this is just my observation
Yeah both cars were in the middle of the road, one was just sideways. That's the correct line as it is after a right angled corner.
@@TSRB Ahhh, that explains it
you should try it on Tsukuba Fruit Line, you can make your inner wheel reach the other side of the gutter and actually cut corners
Me who see the video very times when you upload: Fuck a special techniques who now is common
More seriously it's very cool your videos it permit for some people to have a tutorial and make it more easier it's better than do like me and training for 10 hours just for that 😅
2:39 omg I know this fucking song your gonna have me going through all my old dnb albums to find this track
Assuming street cars to have softer suspension (therefore necessitating the gutter for lift) is right, except it doesn't apply to specifically Takumi's AE86.
Both anime and manga heavily imply that the car is modified by Bunta to a racing spec, specifically rally and drifting.
MAYBE, despite being a modified car, Bunta decided on keeping the suspension softer (and requiring the lift) deliberately, to better protect the tofu cargo during delivery.
I actually utilize this irl in a civic. A corner you take at 110km/he can be done at 120-130 depending on road conditions. Passengers flip out, it's great.
this was a very good video i have tried to do this but it never worked while gripping now I know to drift to get the wheel to lift
ooooo.... very helpful, thank you sir, i got a question, would you ever make a vid on Toshiya "God Arm" Joshima's driving technique? One handed steering
Try this technique while practicing slip angle instead of drifting. way more finesse required but I wanna see how that goes
ive never tried it but if i have to guess, the optimal slip angle is not acute enough (ur not swinging a wide enough angle) to let you have your inside rear wheels still on the road. but its just my guess.
Slip angle is shallow, but depending on the car wheelbase and your accuracy you should be able to partially perform it. If your suspension is meant to lift off the inner rear and you do that with the inner front it would be really hard but very rewarding too
@@tomsterbg8130 exactly
@@tomsterbg8130 so cornering on 2 wheels?
One of the most counter intuitive things in racing physics. If outer wheels keep a major grip, I would have bet that it would PULL the car towards the outer side of the curve therefore making the car more prone to understeer as, like we all know, more grip means more rolling resistance. But it seems ita negated.
A thing I learned by racing karts. I was leaning towards the inside of the corner when I was supposed not to or to do the contrary
There is a similar situation at Boulder Bank long reverse in Wreckfest,i always struggle there bcs you have a double bump braking zone into a gutter.
I use this technique on tsukuba touge its fun to do it with the r32 thanks for teaching me this
soooo thank you for letting me know I did this unconsciously but meow I can see if and can do this faster then I already am!
thank you! this works but i almost crashed into my neighbors house... but good thing no one saw me
to think these tips and tricks are helping me drive in a roblox game... its pretty impressive
in all honesty i found this channel because i wanted to drive like takumi in forza and now i am one of the fastest on the downhill of fortune island thanks for teaching me how to get gud
NANI ??!?!?! INNER WHEEL DORIFTO ?!??!?!!
I liked this video so much I even downloaded it.
I've done this before in a drift run down akina not fully intentionally and the feedback felt so weird
like button smashed lad
My favorite thing to do in Rally and dirt ovals
While the outside is loaded more than the inside I don't get how taking out the inner wheel adds any grip. Also the situation where it's beneficial to use the wheel lift over a gutter is quite rare, the speeds and angles have to match up perfectly or it's slower. The exit must be even smoother than a normal drift or speed is lost. I see this as more of a defensive technique to really block out the inside and bait the outside. I'd rely more on a clean exit to maximize when ever is next on the attack.
This video was super cool! I'm glad you've recommended me this. Can you set up gt3 cars like this?
Brilliant video, but what about a 3 wheel lift?
On a road I used for work for a few months there's one corner marked as "safe" at exactly half the speed limit, but it's got a huge smooth inside to the corner that let's even the worst handling car take it at the speed limit if you use the shoulder.
The problem is they've patched a large chunk right on the apex which has lasted well, while the road before and after it has sunk. The 3rd last day I used the road I really pushed it and tucked in at over double the recommended speed for the corner, upon hitting the bump every tyre besides the front right (luckily it's a fwd) lifted off the ground for the entire exit of the corner.
It was an unbelievable feeling to feel the car lift off and rotate the final bit around a single tyre, luckily I kept it pointed where I wanted to go and the throttle in and it just sat down straight and pulled out of the corner happily.
I'd love to see you try to replicate this if there's any tracks with a similar mid apex bump
Its best to use this technique with slip angle instead of drifting, check his video on slip angle if u dont know what it is.
haha yeah so good i subscribed earlier today for more videos just like this one!!!!!!
Nice vid
Bout do go do this in my MX 5 with my new eibach sway bars. Not whilst chasing an 86 of course.
My favorite part was when he said "when I started drifting" and he switched it to the initial d 86
Amazing video thank you man
another killer video!
I Almost forgot to like the video, can't forget the most important part!
this is nice and fun keep them up
wasn't this technique used to just get the wheel over on the other side of the gutter to overtake even though the opponent is blocking the inside?
5:01 its called a banked corner btw
Just watching this back, did he use a H-pattern gearbox when driving the f1 car?
Ironic I just tried doing this for the first time randomly yesterday and then this video comes out lmao
I use techniques like this in a game in roblox called midnight racing
3:30 your car jumps around while inside camera stays stable... how did you do that?
Go
Beat
Crazy
*miata flip intensifies*
Its offical guys, im officially a beam NG drive touge driver now
7:32
Epic 360 p action
what music do you use for the background, im in love
That red Miata can do that trick...
it turns back, it's backfired