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Sorry to bother you but I live in Brazil and I can find the books or even the audio books easily overhere, do you recommend any app or website I can buy them for me? Specially with the narrators you recommended in the video por example.
For me the Baneblade will always be a repurpose scout vehicle, for long-term expeditions in extremely hostile environments. The STC was modified at some point to make it a tank. Like the artic and Antarctic land ship concepts. It's just about the right size for that task, if not a little small. I don't care if it's official GW or not. Unreliable narrator cuts both ways.
With how numerous the Orks are, why wouldn't their collective belief imbue power similar to how the Chaos Gods have theirs? I thought this just made sense.
@@tipfertool5457I think it’s just more interesting and better storytelling. 40k is unfathomable bullshit and it’s been around long enough that it has no chance of having a good ending because all of the things inspired by 40k already did them. I don’t think they can believe themselves Into being a tank but the idea that a human picking up an ork gun and it somehow fires backwards and kills them because it only works in an orks hand is absolute class and I will fucking die before I let that go. Wes is a good guy but the Memes are better when it comes to the orks and they are canon because I say so and it’s a fucking universe that only exists to sell plastic.
On Ork tech, the best canon source is in the Caiphas Cain novels. In one of them he's forced to commandeer a mixed force of Imperial and stolen Ork vehicles and weapons, even mounting Ork weapons on Imperial vehicles and vice versa. Cain made an important point to his tech priest in that novel: Ork vehicles were dangerous and uncomfortable to ride in, but they were still vehicles - if you keep them clean, oiled, and fueled, they still work, and you can salvage one to repair another when they stop working. Keep the guns cleaned and maintained and they'll shoot. The machine spirits don't actually give a shit about an Ork bolter mounted on an Imperial Salamander. When his tech priest objected, he made the excellent point that if they didn't do anything the Omnissiah would be able to clarify the matter in person in about five minutes.
hell Yarrik was using an ork power claw, with a bit of maintenance and some fine tunning ork tech is usuable, ork hunters of armaggedon do it all the time.
Yarrick is a mixed bag though, because he can only shoot his laser eye when Orks are around, because they believe it can shoot lasers. I'm sure a lot of their tech does really work without their waaagh, but some of it straight up doesn't.
@@Nightmare704RY For Yarrick, the argument can be made that it worked because ork believed it worked. That sound crazy in evidence based science, since the causality is a loop, but... well, someone had to say it.
I gotta be honest I’m going to keep believing that Orcs believe their technology to work, therefore it does. Having infinite ammo and fast cars through the power of belief is absolutely hilarious, and such a fun faction trait. I totally hear you that it isn’t real (and the orcs becoming tanks example is definitely too far), but it just brings me joy to have that as part of their mythos.
@82 his version is not any more true than ork magic, aside from a selected sources that usually are done by different writers and are not canon at all or are corrected when they realize. If I have to chose between two baseless theories I chose ork magic.
Nothing was disproven, he just pointed out some absurd rumors about what orcs have done. If the tech priests can't figure out how orc tech works (or at least how it works so well while being unquestionably flawed in design), it's because it fails to function by their known laws of physics. This means orcs are employing some type of additional physics to make them work, and that is clearly where the waagh field comes into play
The problem is that the ork gestalt field is a thing but for some reason half the fan base interpreted that to mean they could literally believe anything into existence and then another half decided to counter them by going to the other extreme and claim it doesn't exist at all, both these groups of people are getting it wrong
You should read the ghazghkull thraka book for "ork mysticism". It keeps a lot of stuff down to earth - the machines actually work, you can't just think a gun into being. But it also has Makkari being reborn again and again because ghaz believes that they're the lucky grot, as well as an entire planet of orks subconsciously forming a space project because their sun is going to die.
Iirc one codex or the GW site made an off-hand comment on Ghazghkull's subordinates going around "appointing" new Makaris so that Ghazghkull never realises if one of his "Makaris" died.
Weirdboys also draw from Waagh energy rather than the Warp. So it is reasonable to assume there is a big psychic component to their abilities. The quote of the admech priest also needs to be considered: he says that their tech does not seem to work unless operated by an ork. We can assume they have at least tried firing one of their guns and it did not work unless it was an ork shooting. So the gun probably isn't mechanically sound unless the ork thinks it is
A fun fact about Lukas is that he does canonically have descendants from his time as a mortal, and will often mess with other wolves about having slept with their families, and that some of them might be his grandkids. In his own novel he actually finds one woman who he knows is one of his, and protects her people against raiding dark eldar.
He sounds like a really interesting character! I haven't read his novel yet, but it's in my list. I've been pretty critical of space wolves in the past, but this guy seems like he might become one of my favorite characters
@@weshammer i think you will, i highly recommend his novel as its a great look into how he views himself and his role in the chapter. He is the fool, free to say and do as he pleases because he speaks the truth, not to spoil much but he ends up setting a wolf lord's face on fire after he stole a kill from a pack of blood claws, the idea being nobody should be immune from the rules. He has a deep respect for the people of Fenris as survivors and questions decisions made by the chapter, such as allowing the people to continue suffering on a death world when they can improve it, in the name of stronger recruits when other chapters dont do such things. And as a lover of villains you will adore the dark eldar villain of the book, he's cunning, he's vain, he's charming, he's sadistic, and just a perfectly lovable irredeemably evil bastard on the search for something fun to di
@@ninjapirate47 I don't. I've got a political sciences master's degree (or the be exact the equivalente in my country), I'm very aware than most of people only ponctually check their sources when it comes to their political believes. That's why I'm precising "people speaking about politics", implying the ones who made their actual job from it.
Another neat detail that confirms that Inquisitors will try anything before exterminatus is in the recent game Darktide, where you play expendable rejects sent to purge the lower levels of a Hive from Nurgle cultists. If you play endgame missions and get lucky, you may get some rare dialogue lines where your squad members discuss rumors that they've heard of other Hives on Atoma Prime (the planet of the game setting) that have fell to Chaos. Your Inquisition superiors will even intervene on the radio to tell you to not ask questions about it, as all info on the matter is classified (thus pretty much confirming it). So it means that several billions of people turned to chaos already, with cities the size of continents pretty much lost forever at that point. Yet the Inquisition is still here, sending a handful of strike teams to assassinate cult leaders, disrupt enemy supply lines, ect.. pretty much trying everything it can to get the planet back rather than just pressing the meme button.
Same with Rogue Trader. Spoilers if you haven't played: --- --- --- --- The inquisitor character suggests blowing up a planet only once (or once so far in my playthrough), and if you don't do it the entire planet with it's billions of people gets swallowed by the warp.
Planets are a lot more valuable to the Imperium than lives They'd happily spend 3 guard regiments to get a planet back Humans can be replaced in 20 years Replacing a Planet, requires hundreds of years to get one of the same size from a Rogue Trader colonizing a new world
I always thought the ork ability to make things real is more like a tiny psychic push. So something that barely works functions. Like putting tape over something to hold it together. It’s doesn’t ignore reality. Just gives a bit of assistance
This ork meme is in fact a reflection of the fanbase - if enough fans believe a meme is canon it gets treated like it's real. Purple orks are all over the internet now so the original fan joke "have you ever seen a purple ork?" doesn't work anymore, but it still gets repeated. Ork logic is circular, just like fan logic.
Yeah, that was how I initially thought of it too: like, I knew obviously it was being exaggerated for memes but I thought it still occurred but was more subtle and specific, like that DreadAnon meme: "Look mate, I can't pick up a log an' make it fire a laser. Maybe if there was 10,000 boyz here, an' you gave me a broken laser cannon, an' you didn't tell me it was broken, then it might manage a shot or two before I noticed, but I'z NOT a zoggin' WIZARD!" Like it wasn't outright warping reality but more acting as "reality lubricant." But now? Now I'm not so sure...
@@Azorees-oj5zr Exactly, a lot like Weshammer suggests with how "Red Wunz Go Fasta!" It's not that the red paint is making the vehicles faster, it's that they instinctively paint the faster vehicles red, except in Yarrick's case he did it on purpose.
A big misconception I had is that necron reanimation protocols were perfect when in fact they are far from it and that's one of the worries of the necrons every time they die that there may reanimation protocols might not work or might introduce new faults. Source: Twice dead king ruin
Also in the Indomintus Novel: The Necrons fear reanimation because each time they can get the destroyer virus/curse/plague (I've seen all 3 terms used) which leads them turning into Destroyers, who end up only feeling rage and a propensity to destroy all living life (this is different from the flayer curse that turns them into flayed ones). At the end of the book, with the help of the the Necron Plasmancer Ah-hotep, who hated the Overlord Simut that she was serving and so betrays him, the Imperial forces manage to destroy both the Overlord's flagship and the giant Necron ship that is causing the Pariah Nexus effect. The Necrons defeated during this short period do not reanimate as a result, including the other named Necron character, the Skorpekh Lord Zozar (the Necron had reinforcements so the Ultramarines on the planet end up fighting an impossible battle - their only ship forced to jump away to warn the Imperium). As the Skorpekh Lord is dying, the author goes into detail the feeling of oblivion he was feeling when he realized this was the end for him. It was a meh book but it does show the Necrons are not this monolithic group with different factions and tribalism, nor do they have infinite regeneration - they can be beaten permanently under the right circumstances.
In the Divine and the Infinite, they talk about control panel not being branched to anything, on an ork ship. And the orks going on a Necron ship and still being able to breath, even when there is no air in the ship.
IIRC the control panel was on a breeching ship that the narrator notes miss pretty frequently and that the control panel was just there to make the occupants 'feel better'. But you're absolutely right, Orks were able to fight in a vacuum.
@@corbingovers7559 Yes but it's never stated that they breathed in the vacum Orikan actually ask Trazyn if Orks need to breath and is only answer is "they have lungs" so pretty inconclusive.
In regards to the distinction between the warp and the eye of terror: The eye of terror is where Slaanash was "birthed" (ex-eldar empire cluster), which left an overlapping materium/warp space which was named "The Eye of Terror" There are other spaces like it even before the cicatrix maledictum tore the galaxy in half. The Maelstrom, Somnium Stars, Malfactus etc. are zones like it - and daemon worlds/planets can and do exist within those.
One note on the orkish psychic ability: Brutal Kunnin. It covers everything you have a problem with. Everything. Red ones go faster. Belief powers luck...
The Baneblade being a scout tank from the DAoT misconception is one of my pet peeves. A few years ago someone finally claimed to have a "source" and told me one of the Imperial Armour books had a story about a Magos discovering teh Baneblade STC that was labled as a scount tank but they can't check because they don't have the AI books. Well I have the books and checked the story. It's about Magos Nalax discovering a fragmented STC of a DAoT tank. The Magos decides to fill in the gaps in the STC using Baneblade schematics to create a *lighter* alternative to the Baneblade. Thus creating the Macharius heavy tank. Somehow the community managed to parrot it into "the Baneblade is a light tank".
This is interesting. I was painting my baneblade recently and I was thinking “how can this be a scout tank” then I thought of a reason as to why, let me know what u think of my hypothesis. So what if it’s not a scout tank as in a traditional sense but more like a FOB (forward operating base). It deploys and goes deep into enemy territory then the crew hides it with camo and electronics hide its presence. Much like White horse in gundam. From there it can deploy recon squads and be able to send the info back to the main army. It was just an idea I made up let me know if it sounds good 😂
I think it was originally a minimalistic hostile environment exploration vehicle. It's about the right size to provide cramped but adequate workspaces for two researchers, a technician, a communications expert and a bosun. The STC was repurposed for combat use upon encountering hostile xenos and some confusion ensued and "small armored exploration vehicle" translated into "scout tank".
@@x3tc1 Really? Rhino and Land raider look like they're some kind of all terrain utility vehicles. Rhino being a truck/buss and land raider some kind of tractor or something but they seem bit small for long term exploration missions. I mean for the crew to live and work inside it for months. Baneblade is - house or ship sized.
The grey knight scene was hilarious! It reminds me that despite being super soldiers they are completely useless with women. Makes me want to see a speed dating session with them.
"Brother, why did that agent look quite flushed in the face while we cleansed together as a group earlier? Is she ill? Perhaps I should carry her to the apothicary for treatment." Agent: "Oh no..a big, strong man to carry me in his warm, muscled arms around while holding me close....I can feel my legs turning to jelly already."
To be fair, most of the astartes are also taken as - lets be honest - child soldiers. They have almost never even had any form of sexual experiences with women (there are exceptions, if we are to belive Lukas the Trickster he bedded a whole slew of women on the night prior to him being selected, but that might just have been a tall tale) even prior to their psychoindoctrination process.
Even IF they had the "desire", would they break some poor woman in half? The majority are 8 to 9 feet tall, and hundreds of pounds, due to muscle and bone mass. Oh, I just had a funny as F%#@ thought! IF Primarchs could do, well, you know, I can imagine the God-Emperor giving his sons "the talk"! 🤣Take, maybe Guilliman, for example. The God-Emperor to him:' You don't listen to Fulgrim, especially about girls!' Fulgrim:' HEY!' "Kill-joy!' The God-Emperor:' You're grounded!' Fulgrim:' S%#@!'
With the orks, its like the orks that wear purple are more sneaky. Is that because they believe purple makes them more sneaky or do sneaky orks just tend to wear purple 🤔
@@Angry_Custodesnow a want an entire and complete novel about Tyranids eating a planet, only comprised of JRR Tolkien-esque descriptions of how various biological material taste and feel.
I always felt that the red things go faster Ork lore was partly down to a kind of placebo effect. That the vehicle itself doesn't go any faster but the Orks think it's the fastest color and with their desire for speed, that placebo effect makes them more reckless, taking riskier maneuvers and just flooring it in any and all situations
No it's the fact that works have a gestalt psychic field, so it's a tiny little psychic push to make it faster. The more works in one place believing it the larger the push
I think the implication is pretty clear from tangible sources that Ork belief has a tangible effect on those around them. Even the Orks themselves compare the power of the Waaagh to Sororitas miracles in Dawn of War, and it’s really reductive to boil that all down to being “innate genetic knowledge” when stuff like Ghaz’s portal bashing and the devolution of humans during the War of the Beast exists. Heck, that entirely conflicts with what we know of Weirdboyz tapping into the field
Right, it's not that orks can 'imagine bullets into existence,' but, if they believe hard enough, they can sway fate, luck, circumstance in their favor. There was a really good story where some orks captured a titan. While they shouldn't have feasibly been able to operate it, and even openly admit to themselves that they don't know how to control it, they _believed_ they could figure it out, and so they do. In fact, everything that led up to them boarding the Titan was part of a plan where each sub-component was essentially a 1/1,000,000 chance of success, but their confidence and beliefs (stubbornness) carried them through.
Yeah, I was watching this video thinking that Wes had gotten a lot better about checking his facts until we got to the end and he didn't even mention any of the times black library authors have been quoted as saying that black library novels are not considered canon and do not have to agree with each other unless it's on something from an official direct GW release. And then he did the whole ork bit and was clearly just cherry picking things to fit his interpretation again
The little note about the Orks abilities being telekinetic in nature is very interesting to me, because that would mean the Ork belief thing isnt just magic that can do anything but is a physical force they exert like telepathic duct tape pulling their stuff together or keeping them pressurized in the vacuum of space.
Ok that's how I always interpreted the ork belief mechanic. It's not so much "something from nothing" but more a combo genetic knowledge and warp abilities
About the orks.. in the Gazghull Thraka book, Gaz had his waagh on a planet building rockets to get to a ship they “believed” was going to arrive. Mind you, none of these orks were from another planet. They were born there.. well on the last hour, as the star of their planet dies, a space hulk does in fact appear. The space hulk that all the orks began to “believe” would appear. Did I misunderstand this? I thought that was a nice nod to the idea that when enough orks (such as a waagh) begin to believe something, it happens. In the book Gaz even says “he just knows the ships will arrive” or something similar to that.
I mean the Orks ARE psychic to some extent and the warp is the home of psychic energies... it's possible they tapped into that and subconsciously found out a hulk was coming. It did not come because they believed it was coming, they "knew" it was coming because it was coming already. That is an explanation, may or may not be true, much like a lot of 40k it's never fully explained.
When it comes to the Ork powers of "make-believe" there is also the case of "Baddkrasha's Crown" an Ork crown-like device that disrupts the Tyranid synapses. Eventually the Deathwatch managed to get the crown from Orks during the Octarius war and handed over to Inquisitor Van Roth who thought with Baddkrasha's Crown the Imperium could win the Octarius War but I believe that plan failed because the crown only works when it is used by an Ork. source: Warzone Octarius books.
To be fair, that could have many explanations. Like being gene coded to only work on an ork, or link to Ork psychic powers, not necessarily power of belief.
And not just individual Orks. I've always interpreted it as something the entire race needs to believe is true, in order to make it true. Like the colours. Wes makes a great point that the colours might just be a bi-product of their innate knowledge. Which kinda makes it a chicken/egg situation. And I'm fine with that.
@penileymajorey7174 i thought people just understood all this by now. The smarter you are the more you need to invent to trick yourself. The eldar could function like orks but they are more constricted by their experience of physical reality and so have a harder time disbelieving it, but they invent rational systems to counteract the rational reality and make it advanced enough they are allowed to trust it. Their entire tech is just a mechanism to disable their disbelief. How everything else with a soul works too, thats the setting.
I personally still believe that if Orks believe something to be true it happens. Perhaps not something big like say, thinking the Emperor is still alive and thus is but something small. Like how Ghazghkull was able to move pretty fast despite being in bulky heavy armor when fighting a Daemon of Khorn on a Space Hulk because all the Orks on the Space Hulk believed that Ghazghkull could move that fast in heavy armor because he was so great of a Warboss. I mean, small things like that, things that can just slightly bend the laws of physics I think Orks can do if enough Orks genuinely believe in the outcome. Because remember, a Daemon of Khorn, specifically a Bloodthirster is no joke and Ghazghkull's battle with the Daemon was prior to him obtaining his massive Cybork body - he was just a slightly bigger Warboss that got all the Klans together, just a single Warboss that fell a greater Daemon with little to no effort and even asked for more after words and THEN proceeded to headbutt a Warp portal so hard it closed. I don't think any other Warboss without the amount of prestige and faith that the other Orks had in Ghazghkull could've achieved that feat.
@penileymajorey7174I mean yeah I always thought that is the accepted narrative in the community, not to sound like an ass, I just assumed that to be the case. Orks are impulsive and tribalistic unlike the highly sophisticated and calculating eldar, so I thought that it made sense that Orks are not conciously using the warp and that reality would just subtly bend around their natural cultural believes and biological needs. Like going where war is and making guns and fast cars. It would never even occur to them to try to use magic or undergo some intense concentration in order to hone their abilities, they are designed to be simple and warlike and that is why their abilities manifest when they are numerous in numbers
I mean, the orks NOT having reality-altering capabilities seems to leave more questions unsolved than not. Even Trazyn is surprised when orks perform a 0% chance manuevers during the infinite and the divine. + all the other instances of mad dok orks and eye of terror shenanigans. idk it seems very much implied while not confirmed.
They can tweak reality a bit, but can't turn a fly into an elephant. Id est - Can make a gun shoot infinite rounds, but can't turn those rounds into nuclear warheads.
I could see part of the Orc misconception stemming from the fact that as they get more troops the Warbosses become larger and stronger and seeing that as evidence of the belief based powers. It seems plausable on the surface, the more Orcs you have believing you are the biggest and the strongest the more true that seems to become.
It also kinda ignores that humans, eldars and tyranids affect reality through beliefs. Every major species does it. Saying it was never proven therefore it isn't true is a pretty silly argument because stories about the orks aren't about their technical prowess, it's usually about some idiots who want a hat. Everything about their lore points towards them doing the same thing every other species does.
The thing about "people pretending to be a tank makes them function like one" actually didn't have anything to do with Orks or even Warhammer as a whole at all! It's actually from a military joke where a soldier is given a stick instead of a gun and told to yell "BANG!" at the enemy, and then it turns out the enemy was doing the same thing. The reason depends on who's telling the joke, sometimes it's budget cuts, sometimes it's a prank the sarge is playing on a dumb new recruit, but the joke is actually older than Warhammer itself. I'd originally thought there was an in-universe tidbit somewhere that was the source of the "Guardsmen finger gun" story that it had originally been "Guardsmen's lasguns were out of charges and they continued firing and some Orks actually fell, but then when it became obvious they were out of ammo those Orks got back up and it didn't actually turn the tide of the battle, but it was an interesting tidbit to show how the WAAAGH!!! field works" and that it had gotten mashed up WITH the joke because they follow a similar structure and the joke's punchline escalates the initial story's more subtle depiction for comedic effect, but after watching this video and hearing that Ork technology actually DOES work on its own and there's no textual evidence to suggest the WAAAGH!!! gestalt is needed to make them function, I did some cursory searching and all the sources I could find are secondhand retellings of the "exaggerated" version rather than citing a specific text, and now I'm wondering if there IS no subtler version from some Ork Codex sidebar that got mashed up with the joke, and it was just the joke wholesale conflated with the "Ork technology doesn't work without the WAAAGH!!! field helping it" misinformation...thanks for setting me straight on this one!
i have a source that contests the thing about ork-believe. In the rogue trader ttrpg sourcebooks, it clearly states that some ork ships have big red buttons on the bridge, that are not connected to anything. Just a button. Yet when 'da käptain' presses it the ship gets a speed boost.
In the platform filled with career individuals akin to David Dobrik, Sssniperwolf, boogie2988, that ukelele girl and more, accountability, honesty and the will to fix past mistakes to opening for better opportunities and gates for successes and interactibility is pivotal and being actual good culture to encourage for those who either thinks or feels they mess up or actually mess up Although Weshammer's spreading wrong lore facts doesn't even comes close to those examples yet he's still wanting to improve his youtube crafts (NO NOT THOSE STEW PEED CRAFTS CHANNELS), so he's pretty much a good person at heart and generally trustworthy :D
totally agreed, maybe for different reasons for me though. 2nd ed codex necrons were implacable killing machines focused on doing nothing else but eradicating all life in the galaxy and feeding the ctan, when they turned necrons into space egyptians ala tomb kings i died a little inside
I've really enjoyed learning all about Warhammer from your channel Wes but the more content i get the more the harder it is for me to really conceptualize everything that's going on with how many moving parts and time lines there are. Great video as always!
The ork issue is compounded by things like Deff Skwadron where the orks do in fact steal, then fly, a partially deconstructed fighta back to their base of operations. No fuel, nor wings if i recall correctly. I've been an ork player on the tabletop for a long time so very aware of the unreliability of their own tech even in their own hands, so i definitely subscribe to the greasing of luck. Bullets should run out? Ork miscounted his bullets to begin with, sometimes. The inexplicable 'How!?' moments sprinkled through the ork lore absolutely make them what they are even if it does muddy the water in exact, specific mechanics in how they function and treating it as an in universe bit gag isn't all that satisfying either.
You missed a big one: "All chaos marines are 10 000 year old veterans who were directly part of the horus Heresy. another good myth would be "the chaos is a crazy place where time doesn't exist and armies can be produced in a day of real space time but decades in the warp" there needs to be some balance with that.
The interesting thing is that it’s sort of both- time in the warp could be shorter for one person than another. There are probably chaos marines that only felt a decade in the warp, while another might have experienced 100,000 years
I haven't finished the series yet, but there's is moment in The War Of The Beast, that seems to indicate that booth of the theories about the ork have atleast a grain of truth to them. It's in the second book, chapter ten, so spoiler for that bit of the book : After the destruction of Ardamantua, the Mechanicus is examining what they found on the battlefield looking to pierce the secret of ork tech - in order to replicate the ork attack moon ability to teleport - and after examining some ork brains they find that the structures dedicated to reasoning and problem solving is in the most primitive part of their brain, so the magos doing the research propose that their understanding of technology and engineering is more akin to an inate ability that an acquired one. But they also manage to find a frquency emited by the ork brain that has been slowly fading since the ork's death and in the presence of that field, and ONLY in the presence of that field, did manage to restart a "broken" ork chainaxe found on the battlefield. Sorry if all that text wasn't super clear, english is not my primary language. tldr: The mechanicus experimentations during the war of the beast seem to say that the orks are both naturally engineering nerds, and big fans of the secret !
could be that they use the telekinetics to hold together the cobbled parts, and without it it's a crapshoot on whether or not it explodes. would seem a good idea to engineer a combat species whos weapons can't be repurposed easily
However, the ork tech in the same series is not shut down by blanks (sisters of silence). Could it not just be a case of correlation not being causation? The brain field could be doing something the techpriests aren't able to detect, and the chainaxe restarted because a faulty wire was jostled when they moved it during testing?
@@davidshea6272 The Ork "WAAAAGH Field" as it's known in the wider community is 'reality warping' (which the blanks can't affect) as opposed to 'psyker shenanigans' (which blanks do affect). Its why the Sisters of Silence have an impact on the Ork Weirdboyz psyker/WAAAGH powers, but not the surrounding tech. As for 'correlation not equaling causation', it's a book series about Orks nearly destroying the entire Imperium. _The brain field was definitely the cause, not just a loose wire._
@@davidshea6272 About that potential loose wire, the scene happened as the magos studying the ork brain was giving a summary of his findings to their superior with a live demonstration, that implies a certain degree of reproducibility that a loose wire or other "coincidental happenstance" wouldn't bring I think.
There is canonical evidence that when enough Orks believe something is true then it is a great example is in a book where a free boota puts on his space suit and goes out to help fix his ship but sees a few non freeboota orks helping but with no suits and they were fine until the free boota asks “dont you know you cant survive in Space without a suit?” The normal orks look at eachother then implode cause they stopped believing they were fine
I mean. Look at literally just about ANYTHING the Orks build. It should not work, while I don't own the physical book, Ghazghkull, on his initial planet, turned literal scrap into space craft. @@jusa297 There's also the fact that Orks manage to repurpose half-destroyed Imperial tanks despite openly, and obviously knowing nothing about them.
Yeah but it is "small scale stuff", like surviving in the void for a couple of hours, have ships that should leak their air not do so, have crude and unreliable guns act reliably, etc. In theory they can believe stuff into existence, in reality they only affect their immediate surroundings, and you need quite a big number of orks to ever hope doing anything else.
The fact that the codices are written so that it appears to be from in universe is a style of writing that I like. The expansion books for Shadowrun are written in the same way.
There was a hilarious story about an ork that I remember someone telling me. I have no idea if it was just a meme story or an actual excerpt, but it was what made me love orks. There was a regiment that was being picked off by a single ork artilleryman and they couldn't take the damn ork out. They finally blasted him down, and when they got to his spot, all they found, aside from his corpse, was a large hollow pipe and some particularly round rocks that he seemed to be loading into it. Whether or not that was a true story, it was at that moment that I fell in love with the orks. Theyre the only faction that is actually having any fun without the threat of a curse or pain or some dark god looming over them, and the way that everyone who fights them has no idea how to actually counter them because they're so unpredictable.
The Baneblade being a scout vehicle is an old meme stemming from 5th ed. At that point Creed could outflank any unit he was attached too. Before it was clarified properly, this meant that in apocalypse he could Outflank a Baneblade (which meant it could also use the scout rule if desired)
TL;DR version at the bottom. Good stuff Wes! I just wanted to address the ork point from 23:07 onwards, I made sure to watch it all until the end to make sure I didn't miss anything, and I gotta say you raised some really good points. I found the most interesting point you made to be how Orks just instinctively paint the things they subconsciously made faster red, rather than it being the red that makes it faster, which is fair but I couldn't shake a certain brain itch that made me want to disagree with it. So, some Big Thinks later and I remembered - orks with their armor and vehicles painted blue are luckier. There is no difference in the tech, no changes, no better armour, no "innate instinctive tech" - it's just painted blue. How is this luck measured? On the tabletop Deathskulls have the "Lucky Blue Gits" special rule which gives them a 6+ invulnerable save and they can re-roll a single hit roll, wound roll, or damage roll for each unit with this trait. The description of how it works? "All Orks believe blue is a lucky colour, but the notoriously superstitious Deathskulls are fervent in that belief." My source? Tabletop in general and its rules, specific source? Here ya go, from GW themselves in a recent-ish (in the grand scheme of this topic) article. www.warhammer-community.com/2018/10/26/26th-oct-clan-fokus-deathskullsgw-homepage-post-2/ TL;DR: Blue is physically shown to be luckier in the tabletop, even on the Ork Boys who have no special tech like your theory requires, the only difference is that they're painted blue. TL;DR source: www.warhammer-community.com/2018/10/26/26th-oct-clan-fokus-deathskullsgw-homepage-post-2/ edits just for grammar and stuff and adding a bit of extra info. P.S. Sure you can possibly try to attribute their hit and wound re-rolls to maybe being some kind of scientific feat in their weaponry, but the ork boys being able to shrug off a lascannon shot in their scrap metal and rag vest as long as they roll a 6+ can only be explained by the believed luck being real.
Can you imagine if they took 40k and made it into a show similar to "Love,Death + Robots". Each episode is a different war story around the galactic expanse in different art styles
All the evidence about Ork tech or Ork Belief I found it on Mike Brooks "Brutal Kunnin" / "Warboss and on Nate Crowley's "Ghazghkull Thraka: Prophet of the Waaagh!" last one was a banger for me, when Makari explains how basically all the boys grew bigger after one speech from Ghazghkull that made them "believe" they could conquer the stars and made the galaxy GREEN As for Audiobooks I love the narration of Richard Reed and in my headcanon he is the voice of Trazyn xD
Orks seem to have a group altering group subconscious, it alters things only slightly, and Orks themselves can't understand it. For example, their belief that purple makes them sneakier, the Orks themselves are as loud and obnoxious as always, but on the only scene that I ever read involving this had a group of Orks infiltrating a hive city and loudly announcing it and shouting to each other about how sneaky they were and how the humies couldn't see them, and the population ignored them, not because they were sneaky but because by allowing the Orks to "sneak" past them the Orks would not attack them. It could be just a joke, but the Orks could be influencing the humans to avoid contact. The other thing is the whole Bigga Ork thing. Orks that beat other Orks become bigger which could be just the bigger Ork being already bigger and by beating others he gather more resources to grow more or he grows faster because the other Orks see him as bigger.
Given what I’ve read of William King’s Space Wolf books, it’s plausible some might do the deed given new potential recruits have more developed lives prior to being chosen (Ragnar even had a girlfriend albeit briefly and it’s vague how far they went on their only night together) so at least some would remember experiencing it, the Wolves are a good deal emotional compared to other Chapters and they celebrate things Viking style. The only snag is their interactions with normal people are limited.
The clearing up of the Ork Misconception makes the feats of Commissar Yarrick much cooler instead of just the theory that his Powerclaw usage and 9ther insane stuff is chalked up to "Orks see he his badass, and they pump him up via Waagh gestalt."
32:03 lmao such a funny background to your content creation story! I didn't even know about your tiktok till just now. You actually inspired me to pick up my first book in a long time Dark Imperium. It's far better than I expected. I'm already in love with the franchise. Thanks Wes!
There's actually a video where a Chaos Marine tries to convince an ork that a stick is a planet destroying weapon. The ork looks at the stick and says, "Datz just a stick. Look 'oomie, maybe if i had some Weirdboyz wif me, i could make this into a summat decent Choppa, but thinkin' that if you can convince me dat dis stick'll blow up a world don't mean dat it will. An' remember, kids: Always be aware of misinfomation. It'll always krump ya in da end."
Im glad what you did explaining the orks powers when I first got into warhammer I heard about how they just believe in it and it works only for orks but then I read the Ciaphas Cain novel “death or glory” were his band of survivors were using ork weapons and vehicles even going as far actually working on maintaining them too soo I had to start doubting that ork belief powers a bit but I still like hearing those stories like “imma tank”
It is worth noting that the mechanicus has analyzed the Ork Waaagh and attributes it to a manipulation of probability, so it seems that things seem to bend in their favor in more obvious ways when enough gather The most obvious example I can think of is in Brutal Kunnin, where Ufthak (the Ork protag) hits a giant shield with his hammer, believing it can break it, and immediately after the shield generate goes down
@@JorgenMatsi Does it though? At best it’s left to the audience to decide, but a coincidence happening just as an Ork believes it to is pretty in line with how the Waaagh is portrayed; Not a total manipulation of reality, but a subtle force that may or may not have a presence at all Saying that “personally I think that it’s all coincidence” is totally fine, but acting as if there’s hard evidence that disproves something clearly left to interpretation is disingenuous
Didn't a mechanicus priest literally just shut down that part of the shield to collect Ork specimen though? It's never implied anywhere that the Ork psychic field makes people do stupid things, they're perfectly capable of doing that themselves.
@@Mutant1988 It’s a pretty common occurrence for Ork belief to be left to interpretation, like in Prophet of the Waaagh. Makati says that Ghaz’s belief he would lose made everyone weaker, but that could totally just be coincidental It’s a ambiguous situation, not an ironclad “no”, left to the audience to decide
One of the few uses of the unreliable narrator in age of sigmar is flesh eater courts, though this plays into the lore of them thinking there're noble knights while they are infact, crazy demented undead cannibalistic ghouls and they are hilarious.
I actually absolutely love that about them and want to start a flesh Eater courts army. In their first codex they had this story where it was like a group of noble nights setting out on a quest to rid the countryside of bandits. You see the knights charging down the hill and it's all glorious and epic with Griffin's flying overhead and stuff. And then it switches over to the " bandits" perspective and turns out they're just a bunch of hungry peasants. they look up to just see this rampaging horde of mutant zombies barreling down the hill at them and they're like "JESUS F**KING CHRIST!!!!!!!" 😂💀
I would make the argument theat there is a slight interaction with the waaaagh fiels and orks tecks. When the waagh field gets bigger and more concentrated orks get bigger and smarter and as a result their teck also becomes a lot less ramshakled and looks a lot like they are made in factories or mastercrafted at the most.
Personally i believe that the 40k saying" Everything is real, but not everything is true" is mostly just there to explain away any contradictions Authors make by accident. Which does happen when you have this many novels. Like the Marneus Galgar comics which claimed Average Ultramar Life expectancy was freaking 30 years, which anybody can say makes 0 sense by just thinking about it.
I don't know why they wouldn't have since they are humans "recruited" and then modified. Roboto Gorillaman sure does with the harem he's currently building. 😏
@@eypandabear7483I know and if nothing else it would make more sense that if anything it was the Primarch that didn't have dicks since they were lab grown and pace amrines are enhanced humans.
Thing is though, the Codexes and rule books are the only primary canon in Warhammer 40k. Black Library books are secondary canon at best and should be viewed like semi-official fan fiction.
So the Baneblade thing may also be a bit of Battletech crossover. In Battletech there is House Steiner and the running gag is a Steiner Scout Lance is all Assault Class Mechs (90 to 100 tons).
Doubt it. Battletech players know that that’s just a joke and that house Steiner actually does make use of lighter mechs such as the Commando, they just use them to a lesser degrees than other houses. The baneblade scout tank myth is a 40k misconception based on hearsay.
Wait but what about how makari said that the truth has to make room for what orks believe? Or was Ghaz just getting help from the god’s because he did some wild stuff
Reasonably speaking, there’s no reason ork powers can’t simultaneously be instinctive engineering expertise and actual essentially magic powers, like if a vital component or resource for a weapon or vehicle was missing, but the ork power can temporarily substitute that component so the weapon literally doesn’t work unless an ork subconsciously fills in the gaps
As some others mentioned, it does happen in the Infinite and the Divine that orks board a necron vessel with no atmosphere and the two necron characters have a humorous exchange over whether orks need to breathe. Admittedly, though, it could simply be the case that orks are vaccuum-hardy enough to do it. It certainly does _allude_ to the oft-memed Looney Tunes logic, though. At this point, I wonder if anyone at GW even knows for sure how the orks work.
The Black Library famously doesn't check continuity so I think whatever the authors believe becomes 'canon'. There are definitely some contradictions. I recall reading an ork story by a new author (I've forgotten his name) where orks are sneaking about and get hit by artillery fire and he mentions flecks of purple paint. It's not explicitly stated but I believe it's the one and only official allusion to purple sneaky orks.
The only reference I have ever seen referencing Space Marine sexuality comes from a Space Wolf codex (I think 5th or 6th edition). In the timeline section it references a Wolf Lord actively flirting with a woman who turns out to not be human (think there was a Slannesh reference), only for him to discover this later. Wouldn't surprise me if Space Wolf conditioning doesn't involve repression. As for the Ork thinking makes reality, I hate that. The first time I realized that was misconception was the last Games Day (yeah that long ago), where someone actually believed they don't need bullets.
Regarding the guardsman's life expectancy, I actually just read the book I think you're referring to. The guardsman in question was dropped on the wrong planet due to an internal mistake, and seconded into the local garrison when the rest of his squad was gunned down. This garrison had been fighting against the Orks for ten years in what's become basically a stalemate. Due to corruption within the officers' ranks, the war has been allowed to continue, and be ignored by the rest of the IG, as it's "not considered important enough", and their officers are encouraged to feed false information about them winning victories, with anyone giving bad news being promptly demoted (if they're lucky). As you say, this was a unique situation, and not necessarily representative of the Guard as a whole, but it's become a running theme that Guardsmen are expected to die pretty much immediately and are seen as mere cannon fodder no matter where they happen to be fighting.
@@Toneill029 Space marines would unironically get scared if a woman invited them for smash (they understand what it means, but they don't have enough budget for Nintendo switch)
Thanks to your suggestion, I read the Nightlords Omnibus. Then I read the Sisters of Battle Omnibus, and my perspective on Chaos has drastically changed. Ultimately, the Imperium and the Ruinous Powers are the same thing. Just packaged and marketed differently. Which is to be expected in the grim dark. Working on the Blood Angels Omnibus now, then the adventures of Ciaphas Cain. Have your wallets ready and read the books folks. You won’t regret it.
@@blank4227 let’s put it this way. If you are just a regular ol human, loyalist or otherwise, your chances of dying a horrible death by imperial or chaos forces are sometimes almost equal. What happened to survivors of Armageddon is a good example.
@@ProteinAndSquats3966 But the reasons for those deaths are different, even if the deaths are callous or mean, and the Emperor is better than the ruinous powers. Dying the service of Abaddon is worse than dying in the service of the big E even though they're both horrible deaths most of the time, because of what you are dying for.
17:51 I don’t know Chief, the whole narrative event with the wolfen and the eldar seems to be pretty retconned. The book fall of cadia make it look like abbadon won easily, while the gathering storm and campaign make it seem like Abby had a temper tantrum for only winning by the skin of his teeth. Then again I’m a guard player so I will take the least charitable Failbbadon interpretation possible. (The planet broke before the guard!)
He won the space war by a large margin, but got his ass handed to him in the ground war even with all the advantages he had. He then got really petty was like F... you and threw the fortress at Cadia to try to prove that this planet was nothing to him, but the reader can tell his ego took a pretty big hit.
The planet was more valuable than the guardsmen, I’m sure they can enjoy basking in their failure as they float away on those little chunks of what used to be a bastion of the imperium. I’d trade a Blackstone fortress for a planet as important as Cadia anyways.
You know what? I think the orks being genetically engendered to just know how to turn scrap into weapons and vehicles is way cooler than the misconception that they have wishing powers, sure it's not as funny but it's still badass as hell.
Basically everything concerning the Thunder Warriors. "Proto-Astartes", while having literally nothing in common with them. No gene-seed, no acid spitting, no extra organs, no black carapace, nothing that makes an Astartes an Astartes. Either that is a misconception, the writers don't know what "proto" means, or they only meant the general concept of a genetically engineered super soldier, in which case the Custodes are just as much proto-Astartes. "Stupid, mindless, uncontrollable brutes who didn't differentiate between friend, foe or civilians", they had their own generals and more or less successfully fixed their own defects without assistance from the Imperium, basically MacGyvering genetic fixes out of whatever they find in hive dumpsters (not to be taken literally). Saw through the Emperor's attempt to conceal the Astartes program, at least well enough to know that something was up, because, as one of the TWs put it, he never made them stupid. In every portrayal in the lore, they're intelligent, controllable (with one caveat, a propensity to under specific combat conditions stop responding to orders), they show restraint and resourcefulness, as well as compassion, honor, forgiveness and a sense of duty. They're as human as they come. "Short-lived". Compared to Astartes, absolutely, but not short. Lore has examples of them living centuries without rejuvenat, which is still better than, say, the average person. One example is active from the early campaigns of the Unification Wars to the beginning of the Great Crusade, when he's killed in combat. Others survive from the Unification Wars into the Horus Heresy and likely beyond.
Thanks, Wes. I am having fun, but the sheer quantity of lore is EXTREMELY intimidating. I will focus on what interests me, instead of how I “think it should be done.” Time to read about Mortarion of the bug wings (❤)!
One thing I think about the Ork Gestalt is it ties in well to the overall 40k Universe Canon regarding the Psycic Gestalt of all sentient races creating the Warp. It's simply a fun smaller scale application of that principle.
@@lightborn9071 I think it entered into the English language via Gestalt psychology, which suggests the brain sees things as a formed 'whole', rather than as individual parts. In contexts like this it often refers more to a 'collective consciousness'.
I think in the section where you describe the difference between the warp and the Eye of Terror it would have been helpful to mention that the EoT is not a natural formation, but rather a consequence of the birth of the Chaos God Slaanesh.
I imagine the subject of level of sexual impulse varies by chapter, much the same way as almost all other facets do. A grey knight? For sure not, especially when they have to face slannesh. A space wolf or similar wild legion? I could see it being a thing, albeit somewhat rare.
That guy is trying to use the Orks weapon against them. By firmly believing that they cannot make their beliefs come true, he wants to take away said ability from them.
Question: Isn't it a fact that orks do need air/oxygen to breathe, yet they ran around in an unpressurised ship without issue? I believe it was in the book "The Infinite and the Divine" we have the passage: ‘Trazyn. Our ships are without atmosphere, unpressurised,’ Orikan said. ‘Do orks… breathe?’ A pause. ‘They have lungs.’ So, either orks don't need oxygen, which would then also be a common misconception about 40k, or there's some other shenanigans going on, which could be explained with their belief-field, as they might've assumed they would be fine. I have also heard it many times that they have a tendency to not have completely sealed spaceships, which would also kill them, but they either don't know they're not sealed, or they don't know it would kill them, thereby allowing it to happen. But those stories could also just be the ones that are made up, so I wanted to highlight the part from the book.
"integrity and dedication to research" is that why he doesn't know the simple fact that you can get testosterone injections if you no longer have your balls? I mean, come the fuck on. I totally agree that they most likely still have their balls, but balls or not, there is no way they aren't pumped full of testosterone either way.. And if that is indeed the case, what would a maybe 2% testosterone increase from having balls really do in the end, compared to the pain a kick in the balls would do?
15:09 That's so weird... I feel like I have heard that in an audible or read it in some form of lore. I remember the mechanicus speaking on STC's and stated that the age of technology, one of the smaller tanks was the baneblade - used to scout for the titans and other bigger tanks, but strong enough to be able to do the job. Then somewhere down the line they made modifications of the baneblade for use as a more standard battle tank.
if the baneblade was one of the smaller golden age STC tanks, what about the myriad much smaller tanks the Imperium use also being made from golden age STC's? Doesn't every one of them outrank a Baneblade as a smaller tank? I think the prerequisite "one of" should account for like 2... maybe 3 regarding the smallest tanks, max... Would the baneblade make that cut?
@ffejpsycho true, I am unfamiliar with those other tanks, but that's why I think it's a myth. I know I have heard it before about the baneblade, but totally understand if it's wrong. :p
As someone who has been around since the OG Rogue Trader days my advice has always beem to pick an army that looks like it would be fun to paint and interests you based on the first paragraph of the description. In the long run you will have more fun.
The Ork one always annoyed me. You have to wonder why they cannot use their powers more directly? Meanwhile, I like the idea that the Old Ones could create such a complicated set of instincts that Orks can create everything they need. Their technology is imprecise because it is based on instinctual impulses.
I think the Lukas the Trickster implied he slept around before his ascension to a Space Marine. He was able remember his past life iirc. A descendant of his is one of the side characters later on.
...Doesnt that mean he got it on when he was 12 pr something? Or was Lukas one of the rare people that became space marines after the recommended age range?
I prefer the theory that orcs warp reality through collective belief. You can't just get one orc to believe something, you have to get all of them to believe it to make it happen. 😊
Me listening to you clear up the Ork misconceptions, as someone who was one of those people that watched your short videos and came to Warhammer through them: "Hey, I resemble that comment." Seriously though, I really appreciate you clearing that up, as I have been believing that for several years now. Keep up the great work!
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What's the music that you use in your videos?
Seriously stop trying to shill for Abaddon the Armless, it's beyond sad at this point.
@@nickkorkodylas5005he's not armless anymore. He got arms from the retconed 12th black crusade.
Sorry to bother you but I live in Brazil and I can find the books or even the audio books easily overhere, do you recommend any app or website I can buy them for me? Specially with the narrators you recommended in the video por example.
For me the Baneblade will always be a repurpose scout vehicle, for long-term expeditions in extremely hostile environments.
The STC was modified at some point to make it a tank.
Like the artic and Antarctic land ship concepts.
It's just about the right size for that task, if not a little small.
I don't care if it's official GW or not. Unreliable narrator cuts both ways.
Ironically, the warhammer's community collectively believing ork magic into reality is similar to the perceived idea of how Orks work.
it poetic, which is ironic because orks are the last people to make poetry
With how numerous the Orks are, why wouldn't their collective belief imbue power similar to how the Chaos Gods have theirs? I thought this just made sense.
@@tipfertool5457same
It is how Ork's work.
@@tipfertool5457I think it’s just more interesting and better storytelling. 40k is unfathomable bullshit and it’s been around long enough that it has no chance of having a good ending because all of the things inspired by 40k already did them.
I don’t think they can believe themselves Into being a tank but the idea that a human picking up an ork gun and it somehow fires backwards and kills them because it only works in an orks hand is absolute class and I will fucking die before I let that go. Wes is a good guy but the Memes are better when it comes to the orks and they are canon because I say so and it’s a fucking universe that only exists to sell plastic.
On Ork tech, the best canon source is in the Caiphas Cain novels. In one of them he's forced to commandeer a mixed force of Imperial and stolen Ork vehicles and weapons, even mounting Ork weapons on Imperial vehicles and vice versa.
Cain made an important point to his tech priest in that novel: Ork vehicles were dangerous and uncomfortable to ride in, but they were still vehicles - if you keep them clean, oiled, and fueled, they still work, and you can salvage one to repair another when they stop working. Keep the guns cleaned and maintained and they'll shoot. The machine spirits don't actually give a shit about an Ork bolter mounted on an Imperial Salamander.
When his tech priest objected, he made the excellent point that if they didn't do anything the Omnissiah would be able to clarify the matter in person in about five minutes.
hell Yarrik was using an ork power claw, with a bit of maintenance and some fine tunning ork tech is usuable, ork hunters of armaggedon do it all the time.
@Hevach 😮*adding to shopping cart*
One of my favorite Cain moments
Yarrick is a mixed bag though, because he can only shoot his laser eye when Orks are around, because they believe it can shoot lasers. I'm sure a lot of their tech does really work without their waaagh, but some of it straight up doesn't.
@@Nightmare704RY For Yarrick, the argument can be made that it worked because ork believed it worked. That sound crazy in evidence based science, since the causality is a loop, but... well, someone had to say it.
"He is lying about lying, and he is lying about that."
- the most accurate Alpha Legion thing I've ever heard.
Or is it?
I gotta be honest I’m going to keep believing that Orcs believe their technology to work, therefore it does. Having infinite ammo and fast cars through the power of belief is absolutely hilarious, and such a fun faction trait. I totally hear you that it isn’t real (and the orcs becoming tanks example is definitely too far), but it just brings me joy to have that as part of their mythos.
i know right.... thats soooo much better and funnier and its what gives orks their charm
@82 his version is not any more true than ork magic, aside from a selected sources that usually are done by different writers and are not canon at all or are corrected when they realize. If I have to chose between two baseless theories I chose ork magic.
Nothing was disproven, he just pointed out some absurd rumors about what orcs have done.
If the tech priests can't figure out how orc tech works (or at least how it works so well while being unquestionably flawed in design), it's because it fails to function by their known laws of physics.
This means orcs are employing some type of additional physics to make them work, and that is clearly where the waagh field comes into play
The fun part about fiction is that since it exists exclusively in the mind, it works exactly how the mind perceives it.
The problem is that the ork gestalt field is a thing but for some reason half the fan base interpreted that to mean they could literally believe anything into existence and then another half decided to counter them by going to the other extreme and claim it doesn't exist at all, both these groups of people are getting it wrong
You should read the ghazghkull thraka book for "ork mysticism".
It keeps a lot of stuff down to earth - the machines actually work, you can't just think a gun into being.
But it also has Makkari being reborn again and again because ghaz believes that they're the lucky grot, as well as an entire planet of orks subconsciously forming a space project because their sun is going to die.
Iirc one codex or the GW site made an off-hand comment on Ghazghkull's subordinates going around "appointing" new Makaris so that Ghazghkull never realises if one of his "Makaris" died.
@@x3tc1it's also confirmed in ghaz novel that makari can indeed reincarnate
gaz allso mentions that he know how well the waaa is going based on how many bullets an ork can fire befor needing to relode
Weirdboys also draw from Waagh energy rather than the Warp. So it is reasonable to assume there is a big psychic component to their abilities. The quote of the admech priest also needs to be considered: he says that their tech does not seem to work unless operated by an ork. We can assume they have at least tried firing one of their guns and it did not work unless it was an ork shooting. So the gun probably isn't mechanically sound unless the ork thinks it is
@@EverydayEldradOr the guns have biometric safeties.
As sad as I am to admit it his argument makes sense.
A fun fact about Lukas is that he does canonically have descendants from his time as a mortal, and will often mess with other wolves about having slept with their families, and that some of them might be his grandkids. In his own novel he actually finds one woman who he knows is one of his, and protects her people against raiding dark eldar.
He sounds like a really interesting character! I haven't read his novel yet, but it's in my list. I've been pretty critical of space wolves in the past, but this guy seems like he might become one of my favorite characters
@@weshammerI feel like you would like Lukas
@@Wolfbroagood ol' stasis bomb for a heart trick
ohh, this is interesting
@@weshammer i think you will, i highly recommend his novel as its a great look into how he views himself and his role in the chapter. He is the fool, free to say and do as he pleases because he speaks the truth, not to spoil much but he ends up setting a wolf lord's face on fire after he stole a kill from a pack of blood claws, the idea being nobody should be immune from the rules. He has a deep respect for the people of Fenris as survivors and questions decisions made by the chapter, such as allowing the people to continue suffering on a death world when they can improve it, in the name of stronger recruits when other chapters dont do such things.
And as a lover of villains you will adore the dark eldar villain of the book, he's cunning, he's vain, he's charming, he's sadistic, and just a perfectly lovable irredeemably evil bastard on the search for something fun to di
Weshammer is checking his sources better than half of people speaking about politics in our real world.
1 more reason why Warhammer > politics
Yeah, if only he would check his sponsors... So I guess it probably evens out.
@@DarkVitaminshence why politics is mostly seen as a form of philosophy rather than a set curriculum with a “right” or “wrong” answer
It's adorable that you think 50 percent of any group checks it's facts in politics. That's a VERY generous figure.
@@ninjapirate47 I don't. I've got a political sciences master's degree (or the be exact the equivalente in my country), I'm very aware than most of people only ponctually check their sources when it comes to their political believes. That's why I'm precising "people speaking about politics", implying the ones who made their actual job from it.
Another neat detail that confirms that Inquisitors will try anything before exterminatus is in the recent game Darktide, where you play expendable rejects sent to purge the lower levels of a Hive from Nurgle cultists.
If you play endgame missions and get lucky, you may get some rare dialogue lines where your squad members discuss rumors that they've heard of other Hives on Atoma Prime (the planet of the game setting) that have fell to Chaos. Your Inquisition superiors will even intervene on the radio to tell you to not ask questions about it, as all info on the matter is classified (thus pretty much confirming it).
So it means that several billions of people turned to chaos already, with cities the size of continents pretty much lost forever at that point.
Yet the Inquisition is still here, sending a handful of strike teams to assassinate cult leaders, disrupt enemy supply lines, ect.. pretty much trying everything it can to get the planet back rather than just pressing the meme button.
Same with Rogue Trader. Spoilers if you haven't played:
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The inquisitor character suggests blowing up a planet only once (or once so far in my playthrough), and if you don't do it the entire planet with it's billions of people gets swallowed by the warp.
Isn’t 40K video game lore a non cannon tho? Or is that just another misconception?
Planets are a lot more valuable to the Imperium than lives
They'd happily spend 3 guard regiments to get a planet back
Humans can be replaced in 20 years
Replacing a Planet, requires hundreds of years to get one of the same size from a Rogue Trader colonizing a new world
@@sovietbiscuit9918 Depends on the game, I think.
It entirely depends on the inquisitor.
People: "Do space marines have their ding-dongs?"
Emperor's children: "Oh, wouldn't you like to know."
They would prove it to you in the worst way possible probably.
I always thought the ork ability to make things real is more like a tiny psychic push. So something that barely works functions. Like putting tape over something to hold it together.
It’s doesn’t ignore reality. Just gives a bit of assistance
Wait isn’t it thanks to them that Yaricks eye could shoot lasers ?
@@antoine7269no, he simply heard that the Orks believed he could, so he replaced his eye with a mechanical replacement that could shoot lasers.
This ork meme is in fact a reflection of the fanbase - if enough fans believe a meme is canon it gets treated like it's real.
Purple orks are all over the internet now so the original fan joke "have you ever seen a purple ork?" doesn't work anymore, but it still gets repeated.
Ork logic is circular, just like fan logic.
Yeah, that was how I initially thought of it too: like, I knew obviously it was being exaggerated for memes but I thought it still occurred but was more subtle and specific, like that DreadAnon meme: "Look mate, I can't pick up a log an' make it fire a laser. Maybe if there was 10,000 boyz here, an' you gave me a broken laser cannon, an' you didn't tell me it was broken, then it might manage a shot or two before I noticed, but I'z NOT a zoggin' WIZARD!" Like it wasn't outright warping reality but more acting as "reality lubricant." But now? Now I'm not so sure...
@@Azorees-oj5zr Exactly, a lot like Weshammer suggests with how "Red Wunz Go Fasta!" It's not that the red paint is making the vehicles faster, it's that they instinctively paint the faster vehicles red, except in Yarrick's case he did it on purpose.
True true, a lot of people still refused to believe that i was the Warhammer 40k >:(
As the forgotten 39 999th warhammer, I feel your pain
@@NuketheDuke It's always "lost Primarch this lost Primarch that" what about the Warhammers? Where's the Emperor Warhammer huh? :(
@@SignificantharrassmentIt's me. Every hammer has its war.
@@Big__Guy And I am Alpharius
@@NuketheDuke i feel you man, i was the 27,491st warhammer.
A big misconception I had is that necron reanimation protocols were perfect when in fact they are far from it and that's one of the worries of the necrons every time they die that there may reanimation protocols might not work or might introduce new faults. Source: Twice dead king ruin
So with every reanimation they get more and more... dead.
I believe this is also the case with the Sigmarines (I believe their true name is Stormcast Eternals) ?
@@UGNAvalon ye and ye
Also in the Indomintus Novel:
The Necrons fear reanimation because each time they can get the destroyer virus/curse/plague (I've seen all 3 terms used) which leads them turning into Destroyers, who end up only feeling rage and a propensity to destroy all living life (this is different from the flayer curse that turns them into flayed ones).
At the end of the book, with the help of the the Necron Plasmancer Ah-hotep, who hated the Overlord Simut that she was serving and so betrays him, the Imperial forces manage to destroy both the Overlord's flagship and the giant Necron ship that is causing the Pariah Nexus effect. The Necrons defeated during this short period do not reanimate as a result, including the other named Necron character, the Skorpekh Lord Zozar (the Necron had reinforcements so the Ultramarines on the planet end up fighting an impossible battle - their only ship forced to jump away to warn the Imperium). As the Skorpekh Lord is dying, the author goes into detail the feeling of oblivion he was feeling when he realized this was the end for him.
It was a meh book but it does show the Necrons are not this monolithic group with different factions and tribalism, nor do they have infinite regeneration - they can be beaten permanently under the right circumstances.
@@UGNAvalonnot tho the extent of necrons but its similar, stormcast dont grow insane like some necrons they lose more and more memories
In the Divine and the Infinite, they talk about control panel not being branched to anything, on an ork ship. And the orks going on a Necron ship and still being able to breath, even when there is no air in the ship.
Oh yeah absolutely, they literally are entirely held up by their belief there, Trazyn and Orikan’s conversation makes that clear
literally this. and they piloted a rocket with no chance whatsoever of landing anywhere but still did. this seems like a miss by wes in my opinion.
IIRC the control panel was on a breeching ship that the narrator notes miss pretty frequently and that the control panel was just there to make the occupants 'feel better'. But you're absolutely right, Orks were able to fight in a vacuum.
@@corbingovers7559 Yes but it's never stated that they breathed in the vacum Orikan actually ask Trazyn if Orks need to breath and is only answer is "they have lungs" so pretty inconclusive.
They never said the Orks breath in vaccum, its the joke. Orikan ask if Orks need to breath and Trazyn answer that they have lungs.
In regards to the distinction between the warp and the eye of terror:
The eye of terror is where Slaanash was "birthed" (ex-eldar empire cluster), which left an overlapping materium/warp space which was named "The Eye of Terror"
There are other spaces like it even before the cicatrix maledictum tore the galaxy in half. The Maelstrom, Somnium Stars, Malfactus etc. are zones like it - and daemon worlds/planets can and do exist within those.
One note on the orkish psychic ability: Brutal Kunnin.
It covers everything you have a problem with. Everything. Red ones go faster. Belief powers luck...
The Baneblade being a scout tank from the DAoT misconception is one of my pet peeves. A few years ago someone finally claimed to have a "source" and told me one of the Imperial Armour books had a story about a Magos discovering teh Baneblade STC that was labled as a scount tank but they can't check because they don't have the AI books.
Well I have the books and checked the story. It's about Magos Nalax discovering a fragmented STC of a DAoT tank. The Magos decides to fill in the gaps in the STC using Baneblade schematics to create a *lighter* alternative to the Baneblade. Thus creating the Macharius heavy tank.
Somehow the community managed to parrot it into "the Baneblade is a light tank".
This is interesting. I was painting my baneblade recently and I was thinking “how can this be a scout tank” then I thought of a reason as to why, let me know what u think of my hypothesis. So what if it’s not a scout tank as in a traditional sense but more like a FOB (forward operating base). It deploys and goes deep into enemy territory then the crew hides it with camo and electronics hide its presence. Much like White horse in gundam. From there it can deploy recon squads and be able to send the info back to the main army. It was just an idea I made up let me know if it sounds good 😂
Baneblade acts as a scout unit by ensuring nothing that spots it survives to report.
I think it was originally a minimalistic hostile environment exploration vehicle. It's about the right size to provide cramped but adequate workspaces for two researchers, a technician, a communications expert and a bosun. The STC was repurposed for combat use upon encountering hostile xenos and some confusion ensued and "small armored exploration vehicle" translated into "scout tank".
@@Jawzah That's the old lore for the Rhino ;) (and maybe also the Land Raider but I'd have to check that one)
@@x3tc1 Really? Rhino and Land raider look like they're some kind of all terrain utility vehicles. Rhino being a truck/buss and land raider some kind of tractor or something but they seem bit small for long term exploration missions. I mean for the crew to live and work inside it for months. Baneblade is - house or ship sized.
The grey knight scene was hilarious! It reminds me that despite being super soldiers they are completely useless with women. Makes me want to see a speed dating session with them.
"Brother, why did that agent look quite flushed in the face while we cleansed together as a group earlier? Is she ill? Perhaps I should carry her to the apothicary for treatment."
Agent: "Oh no..a big, strong man to carry me in his warm, muscled arms around while holding me close....I can feel my legs turning to jelly already."
I am just imagining the grey knight/space marine looking utterly confused as to why she said this. @@theodoreslavo5385
To be fair, most of the astartes are also taken as - lets be honest - child soldiers. They have almost never even had any form of sexual experiences with women (there are exceptions, if we are to belive Lukas the Trickster he bedded a whole slew of women on the night prior to him being selected, but that might just have been a tall tale) even prior to their psychoindoctrination process.
Bet that grey knife head was giant compared to our meager offerings
Even IF they had the "desire", would they break some poor woman in half? The majority are 8 to 9 feet tall, and hundreds of pounds, due to muscle and bone mass. Oh, I just had a funny as F%#@ thought! IF Primarchs could do, well, you know, I can imagine the God-Emperor giving his sons "the talk"! 🤣Take, maybe Guilliman, for example. The God-Emperor to him:' You don't listen to Fulgrim, especially about girls!' Fulgrim:' HEY!' "Kill-joy!' The God-Emperor:' You're grounded!' Fulgrim:' S%#@!'
With the orks, its like the orks that wear purple are more sneaky.
Is that because they believe purple makes them more sneaky or do sneaky orks just tend to wear purple 🤔
Iz cuz youv neva seen a purple ork av you?
@@RileyGeinmy absolute favorite Warhammer 40k information
“Pick a character or faction that you like and just pick a book about them” damn I like Tyranids 😂
just 80 pages about a bunch of tyranids chewing
@@Angry_Custodesnow a want an entire and complete novel about Tyranids eating a planet, only comprised of JRR Tolkien-esque descriptions of how various biological material taste and feel.
I always felt that the red things go faster Ork lore was partly down to a kind of placebo effect. That the vehicle itself doesn't go any faster but the Orks think it's the fastest color and with their desire for speed, that placebo effect makes them more reckless, taking riskier maneuvers and just flooring it in any and all situations
Mustang, wrx and challenger drivers.
No it's the fact that works have a gestalt psychic field, so it's a tiny little psychic push to make it faster. The more works in one place believing it the larger the push
I think the implication is pretty clear from tangible sources that Ork belief has a tangible effect on those around them. Even the Orks themselves compare the power of the Waaagh to Sororitas miracles in Dawn of War, and it’s really reductive to boil that all down to being “innate genetic knowledge” when stuff like Ghaz’s portal bashing and the devolution of humans during the War of the Beast exists. Heck, that entirely conflicts with what we know of Weirdboyz tapping into the field
Right, it's not that orks can 'imagine bullets into existence,' but, if they believe hard enough, they can sway fate, luck, circumstance in their favor.
There was a really good story where some orks captured a titan. While they shouldn't have feasibly been able to operate it, and even openly admit to themselves that they don't know how to control it, they _believed_ they could figure it out, and so they do. In fact, everything that led up to them boarding the Titan was part of a plan where each sub-component was essentially a 1/1,000,000 chance of success, but their confidence and beliefs (stubbornness) carried them through.
A
Yeah, I was watching this video thinking that Wes had gotten a lot better about checking his facts until we got to the end and he didn't even mention any of the times black library authors have been quoted as saying that black library novels are not considered canon and do not have to agree with each other unless it's on something from an official direct GW release. And then he did the whole ork bit and was clearly just cherry picking things to fit his interpretation again
The little note about the Orks abilities being telekinetic in nature is very interesting to me, because that would mean the Ork belief thing isnt just magic that can do anything but is a physical force they exert like telepathic duct tape pulling their stuff together or keeping them pressurized in the vacuum of space.
It is warp based, wich means it is is both mind powers and basically magic
Pretty much
Ok that's how I always interpreted the ork belief mechanic. It's not so much "something from nothing" but more a combo genetic knowledge and warp abilities
Lukas is single handedly keeping the chapter afloat by providing them with suitable recruits
About the orks.. in the Gazghull Thraka book, Gaz had his waagh on a planet building rockets to get to a ship they “believed” was going to arrive. Mind you, none of these orks were from another planet. They were born there.. well on the last hour, as the star of their planet dies, a space hulk does in fact appear. The space hulk that all the orks began to “believe” would appear. Did I misunderstand this? I thought that was a nice nod to the idea that when enough orks (such as a waagh) begin to believe something, it happens. In the book Gaz even says “he just knows the ships will arrive” or something similar to that.
I mean the Orks ARE psychic to some extent and the warp is the home of psychic energies... it's possible they tapped into that and subconsciously found out a hulk was coming. It did not come because they believed it was coming, they "knew" it was coming because it was coming already. That is an explanation, may or may not be true, much like a lot of 40k it's never fully explained.
innate ork farseeing?
When it comes to the Ork powers of "make-believe" there is also the case of "Baddkrasha's Crown" an Ork crown-like device that disrupts the Tyranid synapses. Eventually the Deathwatch managed to get the crown from Orks during the Octarius war and handed over to Inquisitor Van Roth who thought with Baddkrasha's Crown the Imperium could win the Octarius War but I believe that plan failed because the crown only works when it is used by an Ork. source: Warzone Octarius books.
Only Ork? What aboun Gretchins?
To be fair, that could have many explanations. Like being gene coded to only work on an ork, or link to Ork psychic powers, not necessarily power of belief.
@@pianospawn1the orkish power of belief is psychic
I always thought the Ork belief thing was that the Orks had to whole heartedly, undoubtedly believe it to be true for it to happen.
And not just individual Orks. I've always interpreted it as something the entire race needs to believe is true, in order to make it true. Like the colours. Wes makes a great point that the colours might just be a bi-product of their innate knowledge. Which kinda makes it a chicken/egg situation. And I'm fine with that.
I aways considered it a bit of that and same logic behind warp sorcery. You draw this specific circle in blood, and it works cause warp
@penileymajorey7174 i thought people just understood all this by now. The smarter you are the more you need to invent to trick yourself. The eldar could function like orks but they are more constricted by their experience of physical reality and so have a harder time disbelieving it, but they invent rational systems to counteract the rational reality and make it advanced enough they are allowed to trust it. Their entire tech is just a mechanism to disable their disbelief. How everything else with a soul works too, thats the setting.
I personally still believe that if Orks believe something to be true it happens. Perhaps not something big like say, thinking the Emperor is still alive and thus is but something small. Like how Ghazghkull was able to move pretty fast despite being in bulky heavy armor when fighting a Daemon of Khorn on a Space Hulk because all the Orks on the Space Hulk believed that Ghazghkull could move that fast in heavy armor because he was so great of a Warboss. I mean, small things like that, things that can just slightly bend the laws of physics I think Orks can do if enough Orks genuinely believe in the outcome. Because remember, a Daemon of Khorn, specifically a Bloodthirster is no joke and Ghazghkull's battle with the Daemon was prior to him obtaining his massive Cybork body - he was just a slightly bigger Warboss that got all the Klans together, just a single Warboss that fell a greater Daemon with little to no effort and even asked for more after words and THEN proceeded to headbutt a Warp portal so hard it closed. I don't think any other Warboss without the amount of prestige and faith that the other Orks had in Ghazghkull could've achieved that feat.
@penileymajorey7174I mean yeah I always thought that is the accepted narrative in the community, not to sound like an ass, I just assumed that to be the case. Orks are impulsive and tribalistic unlike the highly sophisticated and calculating eldar, so I thought that it made sense that Orks are not conciously using the warp and that reality would just subtly bend around their natural cultural believes and biological needs. Like going where war is and making guns and fast cars. It would never even occur to them to try to use magic or undergo some intense concentration in order to hone their abilities, they are designed to be simple and warlike and that is why their abilities manifest when they are numerous in numbers
I mean, the orks NOT having reality-altering capabilities seems to leave more questions unsolved than not. Even Trazyn is surprised when orks perform a 0% chance manuevers during the infinite and the divine. + all the other instances of mad dok orks and eye of terror shenanigans. idk it seems very much implied while not confirmed.
They can tweak reality a bit, but can't turn a fly into an elephant. Id est - Can make a gun shoot infinite rounds, but can't turn those rounds into nuclear warheads.
I could see part of the Orc misconception stemming from the fact that as they get more troops the Warbosses become larger and stronger and seeing that as evidence of the belief based powers. It seems plausable on the surface, the more Orcs you have believing you are the biggest and the strongest the more true that seems to become.
It also kinda ignores that humans, eldars and tyranids affect reality through beliefs. Every major species does it. Saying it was never proven therefore it isn't true is a pretty silly argument because stories about the orks aren't about their technical prowess, it's usually about some idiots who want a hat. Everything about their lore points towards them doing the same thing every other species does.
The thing about "people pretending to be a tank makes them function like one" actually didn't have anything to do with Orks or even Warhammer as a whole at all! It's actually from a military joke where a soldier is given a stick instead of a gun and told to yell "BANG!" at the enemy, and then it turns out the enemy was doing the same thing. The reason depends on who's telling the joke, sometimes it's budget cuts, sometimes it's a prank the sarge is playing on a dumb new recruit, but the joke is actually older than Warhammer itself.
I'd originally thought there was an in-universe tidbit somewhere that was the source of the "Guardsmen finger gun" story that it had originally been "Guardsmen's lasguns were out of charges and they continued firing and some Orks actually fell, but then when it became obvious they were out of ammo those Orks got back up and it didn't actually turn the tide of the battle, but it was an interesting tidbit to show how the WAAAGH!!! field works" and that it had gotten mashed up WITH the joke because they follow a similar structure and the joke's punchline escalates the initial story's more subtle depiction for comedic effect, but after watching this video and hearing that Ork technology actually DOES work on its own and there's no textual evidence to suggest the WAAAGH!!! gestalt is needed to make them function, I did some cursory searching and all the sources I could find are secondhand retellings of the "exaggerated" version rather than citing a specific text, and now I'm wondering if there IS no subtler version from some Ork Codex sidebar that got mashed up with the joke, and it was just the joke wholesale conflated with the "Ork technology doesn't work without the WAAAGH!!! field helping it" misinformation...thanks for setting me straight on this one!
i have a source that contests the thing about ork-believe. In the rogue trader ttrpg sourcebooks, it clearly states that some ork ships have big red buttons on the bridge, that are not connected to anything. Just a button. Yet when 'da käptain' presses it the ship gets a speed boost.
The coolest thing I have heard anyone say in a long time on YT : 'I am going to hold myself accountable' Great job Wes, keep it up - much respect.
In the platform filled with career individuals akin to David Dobrik, Sssniperwolf, boogie2988, that ukelele girl and more, accountability, honesty and the will to fix past mistakes to opening for better opportunities and gates for successes and interactibility is pivotal and being actual good culture to encourage for those who either thinks or feels they mess up or actually mess up
Although Weshammer's spreading wrong lore facts doesn't even comes close to those examples yet he's still wanting to improve his youtube crafts (NO NOT THOSE STEW PEED CRAFTS CHANNELS), so he's pretty much a good person at heart and generally trustworthy :D
Lol. In Wes' videos, he gets THE NAME OF THE EMPEROR wrong.
The man doesn't hold himself accountable
Kinda weird how he made multiple excuses after that though..
Biggest retcon for me (as a necron player) is the lose of the Pariahs. Legit makes me cry.
totally agreed, maybe for different reasons for me though. 2nd ed codex necrons were implacable killing machines focused on doing nothing else but eradicating all life in the galaxy and feeding the ctan, when they turned necrons into space egyptians ala tomb kings i died a little inside
I've really enjoyed learning all about Warhammer from your channel Wes but the more content i get the more the harder it is for me to really conceptualize everything that's going on with how many moving parts and time lines there are. Great video as always!
The ork issue is compounded by things like Deff Skwadron where the orks do in fact steal, then fly, a partially deconstructed fighta back to their base of operations. No fuel, nor wings if i recall correctly. I've been an ork player on the tabletop for a long time so very aware of the unreliability of their own tech even in their own hands, so i definitely subscribe to the greasing of luck. Bullets should run out? Ork miscounted his bullets to begin with, sometimes. The inexplicable 'How!?' moments sprinkled through the ork lore absolutely make them what they are even if it does muddy the water in exact, specific mechanics in how they function and treating it as an in universe bit gag isn't all that satisfying either.
You missed a big one: "All chaos marines are 10 000 year old veterans who were directly part of the horus Heresy.
another good myth would be "the chaos is a crazy place where time doesn't exist and armies can be produced in a day of real space time but decades in the warp"
there needs to be some balance with that.
The interesting thing is that it’s sort of both- time in the warp could be shorter for one person than another. There are probably chaos marines that only felt a decade in the warp, while another might have experienced 100,000 years
@@anexistanthuman2435 No.
@@keegobricks9734 Why not?
I haven't finished the series yet, but there's is moment in The War Of The Beast, that seems to indicate that booth of the theories about the ork have atleast a grain of truth to them. It's in the second book, chapter ten, so spoiler for that bit of the book :
After the destruction of Ardamantua, the Mechanicus is examining what they found on the battlefield looking to pierce the secret of ork tech - in order to replicate the ork attack moon ability to teleport - and after examining some ork brains they find that the structures dedicated to reasoning and problem solving is in the most primitive part of their brain, so the magos doing the research propose that their understanding of technology and engineering is more akin to an inate ability that an acquired one. But they also manage to find a frquency emited by the ork brain that has been slowly fading since the ork's death and in the presence of that field, and ONLY in the presence of that field, did manage to restart a "broken" ork chainaxe found on the battlefield.
Sorry if all that text wasn't super clear, english is not my primary language.
tldr: The mechanicus experimentations during the war of the beast seem to say that the orks are both naturally engineering nerds, and big fans of the secret !
could be that they use the telekinetics to hold together the cobbled parts, and without it it's a crapshoot on whether or not it explodes. would seem a good idea to engineer a combat species whos weapons can't be repurposed easily
However, the ork tech in the same series is not shut down by blanks (sisters of silence). Could it not just be a case of correlation not being causation? The brain field could be doing something the techpriests aren't able to detect, and the chainaxe restarted because a faulty wire was jostled when they moved it during testing?
@@davidshea6272 The Ork "WAAAAGH Field" as it's known in the wider community is 'reality warping' (which the blanks can't affect) as opposed to 'psyker shenanigans' (which blanks do affect). Its why the Sisters of Silence have an impact on the Ork Weirdboyz psyker/WAAAGH powers, but not the surrounding tech.
As for 'correlation not equaling causation', it's a book series about Orks nearly destroying the entire Imperium. _The brain field was definitely the cause, not just a loose wire._
@@davidshea6272 About that potential loose wire, the scene happened as the magos studying the ork brain was giving a summary of his findings to their superior with a live demonstration, that implies a certain degree of reproducibility that a loose wire or other "coincidental happenstance" wouldn't bring I think.
There is canonical evidence that when enough Orks believe something is true then it is a great example is in a book where a free boota puts on his space suit and goes out to help fix his ship but sees a few non freeboota orks helping but with no suits and they were fine until the free boota asks “dont you know you cant survive in Space without a suit?” The normal orks look at eachother then implode cause they stopped believing they were fine
Please provide a source for this, including book and page.
@@jusa297 dunno about the origin, but this is referenced in the Infinite and the Divine
This sounds great....but I'm suspicious and am anticipating a source not being provided. Would love to be proven wrong!
I mean. Look at literally just about ANYTHING the Orks build. It should not work, while I don't own the physical book, Ghazghkull, on his initial planet, turned literal scrap into space craft. @@jusa297 There's also the fact that Orks manage to repurpose half-destroyed Imperial tanks despite openly, and obviously knowing nothing about them.
Yeah but it is "small scale stuff", like surviving in the void for a couple of hours, have ships that should leak their air not do so, have crude and unreliable guns act reliably, etc. In theory they can believe stuff into existence, in reality they only affect their immediate surroundings, and you need quite a big number of orks to ever hope doing anything else.
The fact that the codices are written so that it appears to be from in universe is a style of writing that I like. The expansion books for Shadowrun are written in the same way.
There was a hilarious story about an ork that I remember someone telling me. I have no idea if it was just a meme story or an actual excerpt, but it was what made me love orks.
There was a regiment that was being picked off by a single ork artilleryman and they couldn't take the damn ork out. They finally blasted him down, and when they got to his spot, all they found, aside from his corpse, was a large hollow pipe and some particularly round rocks that he seemed to be loading into it.
Whether or not that was a true story, it was at that moment that I fell in love with the orks. Theyre the only faction that is actually having any fun without the threat of a curse or pain or some dark god looming over them, and the way that everyone who fights them has no idea how to actually counter them because they're so unpredictable.
7:04 Pretty brave for someone within Exterminatus range
The Baneblade being a scout vehicle is an old meme stemming from 5th ed. At that point Creed could outflank any unit he was attached too. Before it was clarified properly, this meant that in apocalypse he could Outflank a Baneblade (which meant it could also use the scout rule if desired)
TL;DR version at the bottom.
Good stuff Wes! I just wanted to address the ork point from 23:07 onwards, I made sure to watch it all until the end to make sure I didn't miss anything, and I gotta say you raised some really good points. I found the most interesting point you made to be how Orks just instinctively paint the things they subconsciously made faster red, rather than it being the red that makes it faster, which is fair but I couldn't shake a certain brain itch that made me want to disagree with it.
So, some Big Thinks later and I remembered - orks with their armor and vehicles painted blue are luckier. There is no difference in the tech, no changes, no better armour, no "innate instinctive tech" - it's just painted blue. How is this luck measured? On the tabletop Deathskulls have the "Lucky Blue Gits" special rule which gives them a 6+ invulnerable save and they can re-roll a single hit roll, wound roll, or damage roll for each unit with this trait. The description of how it works? "All Orks believe blue is a lucky colour, but the notoriously superstitious Deathskulls are fervent in that belief." My source? Tabletop in general and its rules, specific source? Here ya go, from GW themselves in a recent-ish (in the grand scheme of this topic) article. www.warhammer-community.com/2018/10/26/26th-oct-clan-fokus-deathskullsgw-homepage-post-2/
TL;DR: Blue is physically shown to be luckier in the tabletop, even on the Ork Boys who have no special tech like your theory requires, the only difference is that they're painted blue.
TL;DR source: www.warhammer-community.com/2018/10/26/26th-oct-clan-fokus-deathskullsgw-homepage-post-2/
edits just for grammar and stuff and adding a bit of extra info.
P.S. Sure you can possibly try to attribute their hit and wound re-rolls to maybe being some kind of scientific feat in their weaponry, but the ork boys being able to shrug off a lascannon shot in their scrap metal and rag vest as long as they roll a 6+ can only be explained by the believed luck being real.
A majorkill video and a weshammer video dropping almost at the same time? I'm there!
Can you imagine if they took 40k and made it into a show similar to "Love,Death + Robots". Each episode is a different war story around the galactic expanse in different art styles
All the evidence about Ork tech or Ork Belief I found it on Mike Brooks "Brutal Kunnin" / "Warboss and on Nate Crowley's "Ghazghkull Thraka: Prophet of the Waaagh!" last one was a banger for me, when Makari explains how basically all the boys grew bigger after one speech from Ghazghkull that made them "believe" they could conquer the stars and made the galaxy GREEN
As for Audiobooks I love the narration of Richard Reed and in my headcanon he is the voice of Trazyn xD
Wes I just have to say I ordered one of your "bring the noise" noise marine shirts and it is absolutely my favorite 40k apparel, hands down!
Orks seem to have a group altering group subconscious, it alters things only slightly, and Orks themselves can't understand it.
For example, their belief that purple makes them sneakier, the Orks themselves are as loud and obnoxious as always, but on the only scene that I ever read involving this had a group of Orks infiltrating a hive city and loudly announcing it and shouting to each other about how sneaky they were and how the humies couldn't see them, and the population ignored them, not because they were sneaky but because by allowing the Orks to "sneak" past them the Orks would not attack them. It could be just a joke, but the Orks could be influencing the humans to avoid contact.
The other thing is the whole Bigga Ork thing. Orks that beat other Orks become bigger which could be just the bigger Ork being already bigger and by beating others he gather more resources to grow more or he grows faster because the other Orks see him as bigger.
Given what I’ve read of William King’s Space Wolf books, it’s plausible some might do the deed given new potential recruits have more developed lives prior to being chosen (Ragnar even had a girlfriend albeit briefly and it’s vague how far they went on their only night together) so at least some would remember experiencing it, the Wolves are a good deal emotional compared to other Chapters and they celebrate things Viking style. The only snag is their interactions with normal people are limited.
As far as I recall in Ragnar's Claw there is an indication of a mutual attraction between Ragnar and Karah Issan.
The clearing up of the Ork Misconception makes the feats of Commissar Yarrick much cooler instead of just the theory that his Powerclaw usage and 9ther insane stuff is chalked up to "Orks see he his badass, and they pump him up via Waagh gestalt."
32:03 lmao such a funny background to your content creation story! I didn't even know about your tiktok till just now. You actually inspired me to pick up my first book in a long time Dark Imperium. It's far better than I expected. I'm already in love with the franchise. Thanks Wes!
You are by far my favorite Warhammer content creator. Keep up the great work!!
There's actually a video where a Chaos Marine tries to convince an ork that a stick is a planet destroying weapon. The ork looks at the stick and says, "Datz just a stick. Look 'oomie, maybe if i had some Weirdboyz wif me, i could make this into a summat decent Choppa, but thinkin' that if you can convince me dat dis stick'll blow up a world don't mean dat it will. An' remember, kids: Always be aware of misinfomation. It'll always krump ya in da end."
Im glad what you did explaining the orks powers when I first got into warhammer I heard about how they just believe in it and it works only for orks but then I read the Ciaphas Cain novel “death or glory” were his band of survivors were using ork weapons and vehicles even going as far actually working on maintaining them too soo I had to start doubting that ork belief powers a bit but I still like hearing those stories like “imma tank”
BANG!!
in fairness warhammer lore is by design rather inconsistent and contradictory
very true wit warhammer
like they have outright stated that all the books are canon (yes, even the C.S. Goto ones) but canon doesn't automatically mean true
One of my favorite videos ive seen about 40k because of your references and notations.
It is worth noting that the mechanicus has analyzed the Ork Waaagh and attributes it to a manipulation of probability, so it seems that things seem to bend in their favor in more obvious ways when enough gather
The most obvious example I can think of is in Brutal Kunnin, where Ufthak (the Ork protag) hits a giant shield with his hammer, believing it can break it, and immediately after the shield generate goes down
Brutal Kunning clearly illustrates it as a coincidence though...
@@JorgenMatsi Does it though? At best it’s left to the audience to decide, but a coincidence happening just as an Ork believes it to is pretty in line with how the Waaagh is portrayed; Not a total manipulation of reality, but a subtle force that may or may not have a presence at all
Saying that “personally I think that it’s all coincidence” is totally fine, but acting as if there’s hard evidence that disproves something clearly left to interpretation is disingenuous
Didn't a mechanicus priest literally just shut down that part of the shield to collect Ork specimen though?
It's never implied anywhere that the Ork psychic field makes people do stupid things, they're perfectly capable of doing that themselves.
@@Mutant1988 It’s a pretty common occurrence for Ork belief to be left to interpretation, like in Prophet of the Waaagh. Makati says that Ghaz’s belief he would lose made everyone weaker, but that could totally just be coincidental
It’s a ambiguous situation, not an ironclad “no”, left to the audience to decide
One of the few uses of the unreliable narrator in age of sigmar is flesh eater courts, though this plays into the lore of them thinking there're noble knights while they are infact, crazy demented undead cannibalistic ghouls and they are hilarious.
I actually absolutely love that about them and want to start a flesh Eater courts army. In their first codex they had this story where it was like a group of noble nights setting out on a quest to rid the countryside of bandits. You see the knights charging down the hill and it's all glorious and epic with Griffin's flying overhead and stuff. And then it switches over to the " bandits" perspective and turns out they're just a bunch of hungry peasants. they look up to just see this rampaging horde of mutant zombies barreling down the hill at them and they're like "JESUS F**KING CHRIST!!!!!!!" 😂💀
I would make the argument theat there is a slight interaction with the waaaagh fiels and orks tecks. When the waagh field gets bigger and more concentrated orks get bigger and smarter and as a result their teck also becomes a lot less ramshakled and looks a lot like they are made in factories or mastercrafted at the most.
Personally i believe that the 40k saying" Everything is real, but not everything is true" is mostly just there to explain away any contradictions Authors make by accident. Which does happen when you have this many novels. Like the Marneus Galgar comics which claimed Average Ultramar Life expectancy was freaking 30 years, which anybody can say makes 0 sense by just thinking about it.
The orks' psychic field only gives da boyz one power: an earth-shattering level of hype.
I don't know why they wouldn't have since they are humans "recruited" and then modified. Roboto Gorillaman sure does with the harem he's currently building. 😏
Why you think he built little big Rome
Primarchs aren’t the same as Space Marines, though.
@@eypandabear7483I know and if nothing else it would make more sense that if anything it was the Primarch that didn't have dicks since they were lab grown and pace amrines are enhanced humans.
Thing is though, the Codexes and rule books are the only primary canon in Warhammer 40k. Black Library books are secondary canon at best and should be viewed like semi-official fan fiction.
So the Baneblade thing may also be a bit of Battletech crossover. In Battletech there is House Steiner and the running gag is a Steiner Scout Lance is all Assault Class Mechs (90 to 100 tons).
Doubt it. Battletech players know that that’s just a joke and that house Steiner actually does make use of lighter mechs such as the Commando, they just use them to a lesser degrees than other houses. The baneblade scout tank myth is a 40k misconception based on hearsay.
came to the comments looking for this
@@anexistanthuman2435 well, he did say "running gag"
"..you don't need to read Spider-man #1 to start reading Spider-man comics..."
Of course, you need to start with Amazing Fantasy #15 for that
Wait but what about how makari said that the truth has to make room for what orks believe? Or was Ghaz just getting help from the god’s because he did some wild stuff
Reasonably speaking, there’s no reason ork powers can’t simultaneously be instinctive engineering expertise and actual essentially magic powers, like if a vital component or resource for a weapon or vehicle was missing, but the ork power can temporarily substitute that component so the weapon literally doesn’t work unless an ork subconsciously fills in the gaps
Weshammer: "Space Marines can't Smash?"
Some artists who made genderbend Female Primarchs & Marines:
Those "artists" are heretics
They need to stop and go touch grass
Those are the biggest heretics
The 40k community these days takes the content of memes as given lore. So yeah, there are many misconceptions.
Lore masters: Why is there so many misconceptions?!?
Tzeentch: "Laughs"
I love this quote found on the internet.
"Nothing is true
everything is canon"
As some others mentioned, it does happen in the Infinite and the Divine that orks board a necron vessel with no atmosphere and the two necron characters have a humorous exchange over whether orks need to breathe.
Admittedly, though, it could simply be the case that orks are vaccuum-hardy enough to do it. It certainly does _allude_ to the oft-memed Looney Tunes logic, though. At this point, I wonder if anyone at GW even knows for sure how the orks work.
The Black Library famously doesn't check continuity so I think whatever the authors believe becomes 'canon'. There are definitely some contradictions.
I recall reading an ork story by a new author (I've forgotten his name) where orks are sneaking about and get hit by artillery fire and he mentions flecks of purple paint. It's not explicitly stated but I believe it's the one and only official allusion to purple sneaky orks.
I belive Baneblade was not a scout tank but it stay in a museum during Dark Age of Technology like todays tanks from First World War.
The only reference I have ever seen referencing Space Marine sexuality comes from a Space Wolf codex (I think 5th or 6th edition). In the timeline section it references a Wolf Lord actively flirting with a woman who turns out to not be human (think there was a Slannesh reference), only for him to discover this later. Wouldn't surprise me if Space Wolf conditioning doesn't involve repression.
As for the Ork thinking makes reality, I hate that. The first time I realized that was misconception was the last Games Day (yeah that long ago), where someone actually believed they don't need bullets.
Ragnar Blackmane was at least atracted and flirting to a inquisitor lady early in his space Wolf career.
no no no wes, it is possible that the dark age era use the massive tank as scouting vehicle. they painted it purple
Regarding the guardsman's life expectancy, I actually just read the book I think you're referring to. The guardsman in question was dropped on the wrong planet due to an internal mistake, and seconded into the local garrison when the rest of his squad was gunned down. This garrison had been fighting against the Orks for ten years in what's become basically a stalemate. Due to corruption within the officers' ranks, the war has been allowed to continue, and be ignored by the rest of the IG, as it's "not considered important enough", and their officers are encouraged to feed false information about them winning victories, with anyone giving bad news being promptly demoted (if they're lucky). As you say, this was a unique situation, and not necessarily representative of the Guard as a whole, but it's become a running theme that Guardsmen are expected to die pretty much immediately and are seen as mere cannon fodder no matter where they happen to be fighting.
Yvraine would love to hear this.
Well of course a primarch would still have the soft and danglies it’s the space marines that were questioned.
@@Toneill029 Space marines would unironically get scared if a woman invited them for smash (they understand what it means, but they don't have enough budget for Nintendo switch)
the sex would have enough psychic feed back that it would eat slaanesh. Would be funny if the star child is born this way.
Thanks to your suggestion, I read the Nightlords Omnibus. Then I read the Sisters of Battle Omnibus, and my perspective on Chaos has drastically changed. Ultimately, the Imperium and the Ruinous Powers are the same thing. Just packaged and marketed differently. Which is to be expected in the grim dark. Working on the Blood Angels Omnibus now, then the adventures of Ciaphas Cain. Have your wallets ready and read the books folks. You won’t regret it.
Well duh. The Emporer is a Chaos Diety, can enhance his followers with powerful warp energies, etc. I thought everyone knew this.
Inquisitors will be there to see you shortly.
can you explain exactly how the Imperium and Chaos are the same thing? is it just that they both have merciless armies?
@@blank4227 let’s put it this way. If you are just a regular ol human, loyalist or otherwise, your chances of dying a horrible death by imperial or chaos forces are sometimes almost equal. What happened to survivors of Armageddon is a good example.
@@ProteinAndSquats3966 But the reasons for those deaths are different, even if the deaths are callous or mean, and the Emperor is better than the ruinous powers. Dying the service of Abaddon is worse than dying in the service of the big E even though they're both horrible deaths most of the time, because of what you are dying for.
17:51 I don’t know Chief, the whole narrative event with the wolfen and the eldar seems to be pretty retconned. The book fall of cadia make it look like abbadon won easily, while the gathering storm and campaign make it seem like Abby had a temper tantrum for only winning by the skin of his teeth. Then again I’m a guard player so I will take the least charitable Failbbadon interpretation possible. (The planet broke before the guard!)
He won the space war by a large margin, but got his ass handed to him in the ground war even with all the advantages he had. He then got really petty was like F... you and threw the fortress at Cadia to try to prove that this planet was nothing to him, but the reader can tell his ego took a pretty big hit.
The planet was more valuable than the guardsmen, I’m sure they can enjoy basking in their failure as they float away on those little chunks of what used to be a bastion of the imperium. I’d trade a Blackstone fortress for a planet as important as Cadia anyways.
You know what? I think the orks being genetically engendered to just know how to turn scrap into weapons and vehicles is way cooler than the misconception that they have wishing powers, sure it's not as funny but it's still badass as hell.
Basically everything concerning the Thunder Warriors.
"Proto-Astartes", while having literally nothing in common with them. No gene-seed, no acid spitting, no extra organs, no black carapace, nothing that makes an Astartes an Astartes. Either that is a misconception, the writers don't know what "proto" means, or they only meant the general concept of a genetically engineered super soldier, in which case the Custodes are just as much proto-Astartes.
"Stupid, mindless, uncontrollable brutes who didn't differentiate between friend, foe or civilians", they had their own generals and more or less successfully fixed their own defects without assistance from the Imperium, basically MacGyvering genetic fixes out of whatever they find in hive dumpsters (not to be taken literally). Saw through the Emperor's attempt to conceal the Astartes program, at least well enough to know that something was up, because, as one of the TWs put it, he never made them stupid. In every portrayal in the lore, they're intelligent, controllable (with one caveat, a propensity to under specific combat conditions stop responding to orders), they show restraint and resourcefulness, as well as compassion, honor, forgiveness and a sense of duty. They're as human as they come.
"Short-lived". Compared to Astartes, absolutely, but not short. Lore has examples of them living centuries without rejuvenat, which is still better than, say, the average person. One example is active from the early campaigns of the Unification Wars to the beginning of the Great Crusade, when he's killed in combat. Others survive from the Unification Wars into the Horus Heresy and likely beyond.
Thanks, Wes. I am having fun, but the sheer quantity of lore is EXTREMELY intimidating. I will focus on what interests me, instead of how I “think it should be done.” Time to read about Mortarion of the bug wings (❤)!
One thing I think about the Ork Gestalt is it ties in well to the overall 40k Universe Canon regarding the Psycic Gestalt of all sentient races creating the Warp. It's simply a fun smaller scale application of that principle.
This is the first time I see the word Gestalt used in english. In german it means form or sillhouette.
Also the eldar deliberately used it to create their gods as tools.
@@lightborn9071 I think it entered into the English language via Gestalt psychology, which suggests the brain sees things as a formed 'whole', rather than as individual parts. In contexts like this it often refers more to a 'collective consciousness'.
666k subs. This one here inquisitor
I think in the section where you describe the difference between the warp and the Eye of Terror it would have been helpful to mention that the EoT is not a natural formation, but rather a consequence of the birth of the Chaos God Slaanesh.
that burp killed me dude, i was not expecting it at all and made me laugh very loudly, thanks for keeping it there XD
You tellin me, that the orks slapping shit together has a basis in a form of science, and not just them believin real hard?
Awe....
I imagine the subject of level of sexual impulse varies by chapter, much the same way as almost all other facets do.
A grey knight? For sure not, especially when they have to face slannesh.
A space wolf or similar wild legion? I could see it being a thing, albeit somewhat rare.
Nothing about the many, many TTS jokes?
That guy is trying to use the Orks weapon against them. By firmly believing that they cannot make their beliefs come true, he wants to take away said ability from them.
Orks can make something out of waaagh energy, but it has too be channelled through 'da weird boyz' in the form of the foot of Gork.
Question: Isn't it a fact that orks do need air/oxygen to breathe, yet they ran around in an unpressurised ship without issue?
I believe it was in the book "The Infinite and the Divine" we have the passage:
‘Trazyn. Our ships are without atmosphere, unpressurised,’ Orikan said. ‘Do orks… breathe?’
A pause.
‘They have lungs.’
So, either orks don't need oxygen, which would then also be a common misconception about 40k, or there's some other shenanigans going on, which could be explained with their belief-field, as they might've assumed they would be fine.
I have also heard it many times that they have a tendency to not have completely sealed spaceships, which would also kill them, but they either don't know they're not sealed, or they don't know it would kill them, thereby allowing it to happen. But those stories could also just be the ones that are made up, so I wanted to highlight the part from the book.
Wes's integrity and dedication to research is why he's my favorite Loremaster.
"integrity and dedication to research" is that why he doesn't know the simple fact that you can get testosterone injections if you no longer have your balls? I mean, come the fuck on. I totally agree that they most likely still have their balls, but balls or not, there is no way they aren't pumped full of testosterone either way.. And if that is indeed the case, what would a maybe 2% testosterone increase from having balls really do in the end, compared to the pain a kick in the balls would do?
15:09 That's so weird... I feel like I have heard that in an audible or read it in some form of lore. I remember the mechanicus speaking on STC's and stated that the age of technology, one of the smaller tanks was the baneblade - used to scout for the titans and other bigger tanks, but strong enough to be able to do the job. Then somewhere down the line they made modifications of the baneblade for use as a more standard battle tank.
if the baneblade was one of the smaller golden age STC tanks, what about the myriad much smaller tanks the Imperium use also being made from golden age STC's?
Doesn't every one of them outrank a Baneblade as a smaller tank?
I think the prerequisite "one of" should account for like 2... maybe 3 regarding the smallest tanks, max...
Would the baneblade make that cut?
@ffejpsycho true, I am unfamiliar with those other tanks, but that's why I think it's a myth. I know I have heard it before about the baneblade, but totally understand if it's wrong. :p
yeah, i was just being a smart ass.... or at least dumb ass
lol@@Wolfenacht
As someone who has been around since the OG Rogue Trader days my advice has always beem to pick an army that looks like it would be fun to paint and interests you based on the first paragraph of the description. In the long run you will have more fun.
God bless you Wes. The "nothing is canon!!!" argument is probably the worst myth perpetuated in the community.
The 15 hour thing is probably inspired by the real world historical fact that a lieutenant’s life span during the conflict in Viet Nam was 15 minutes.
The Ork one always annoyed me. You have to wonder why they cannot use their powers more directly? Meanwhile, I like the idea that the Old Ones could create such a complicated set of instincts that Orks can create everything they need. Their technology is imprecise because it is based on instinctual impulses.
I think the Lukas the Trickster implied he slept around before his ascension to a Space Marine. He was able remember his past life iirc. A descendant of his is one of the side characters later on.
...Doesnt that mean he got it on when he was 12 pr something? Or was Lukas one of the rare people that became space marines after the recommended age range?
@@Persona6BlueConsidering how shit life is on Fenris, he was probably a twelve year old with the physicality of a fit twenty year olds
I prefer the theory that orcs warp reality through collective belief. You can't just get one orc to believe something, you have to get all of them to believe it to make it happen. 😊
Me listening to you clear up the Ork misconceptions, as someone who was one of those people that watched your short videos and came to Warhammer through them: "Hey, I resemble that comment." Seriously though, I really appreciate you clearing that up, as I have been believing that for several years now. Keep up the great work!