If you want more information on what the Golden Throne actually does and it's dark twin, check out this video here: th-cam.com/video/6fgM2bFdZfE/w-d-xo.htmlsi=2dfMoICGZXOTj_MG
I really and truly appreciate the way you present everything, particularly putting that Abnett interview in the context of the narrative at large. There's nothing better than actually showing the authors' view from their own mouths and using that as a base from which to launch a discussion about the work. For so many of us its the culmination of years of reading, it deserves this kind of deep dive.
@@jasoninthehood9726 Fuck Erebus, but yes he is interesting. That is why we hate him so much because he is written so well to be hated. Despite saying that, FUCK EREBUS!
@@jasoninthehood9726Are we not allowed to hate someone/something that is also fascinating? The same things that make him fascinating are what provokes the negative emotional reactions to him
Feel silly asking this but Erebus is still around in current setting…..so “Leetu” has been working this for 10k years lol…. Wonder if he has some connection form king in yellow action.
The "lost years" can not only be years lost of his immortality (so practically the future), but also years of his past. I think the visiting of all these passed events (e.g. Istvaan) suggests that Horus is robbing him the defining moments f his life. The E had already given up part of his soul before the fight, so robbing him of his past (in form of memories) could weaken him further and further, torture him .. exactly what Horus wants.
Bring his true form as psychic sentient fortress that span continents that can reform himself, just like Magnus and Leman Russ' true forms when they combated each other like kaijus/kaijin/Ultraman in old (and still running well) Japanese shows
Not a chance. I think you forget who he is. "I am Rogal Dorn, Praetorian of Terra, primarch of the Seventh Legion Imperial Fists, seventh-found son, defiant and unyielding." He broke Khorne with his sheer defiance. Anybody who tried to alter him would find that he is the immovable object...right before they find out he is also the unstioppable force. And they are caught between both.
@@jasoninthehood9726You can have that opinion, but I’d argue he is one of the most interesting. Dorn is a constancy in a universe that hates it. I mean the main antagonist is literally called Chaos. We have a universe where nothing stays the same, order is near extinct, yet one Primarch out of them all encapsulates constancy where no other brother even tries. That’s unique.
It is worth noting, that it is the past years that The Emperor bleeds away. We have this directly stated by Horus. The Emperor is bleeding his past away.
@@diegoestradahernandez2728 The Emperor bleed past years. It is implied that if he had run out, he would have stopped existing. But we don't get details.
I‘m really new to Warhammer 40k and your videos have really made me invested thanks a lot. Ps. Please more videos on the characters opinions of each other, I personally find this the most interesting.
I didn't expect 40k to turn into yugioh, but here we are! Side note: do they sell actual physical cards of the emperor's tarot anywhere? I REALLY wan to buy some!
This was a brilliant video to listen to as I was painting last night. These kinds of lore discussions are great for reinterpretting my own understanding of the fiction. The Emperor and The Golden Throne is something so pivotal to the setting and yet it's kind of overlooked. I think what we have now is the possibility for different facets of him to appear. The "human" Emperor, The "God" Emperor, The Dark King - it's interesting to consider.
With what we know about Bequin, and the fact that the star child is described as a little girl, it makes you wonder if in Pandemonium may end with Beta becoming a grail for the Emperor eventually, maybe
Started reading the Eisenhorn series last month as a result of this channel and I'm almost done the series now. Maybe I'll push to start the main 40k series later this year
20:00 - that book would probably have a title, the IP tag line, and then everything between the prologue and epilogue would be 10,000 pages saying the word "ow".
If the wounds of Big e have caused him "to lose years", those years might transfer into the number of years he has to be interred on the Golden throne in a kind of stasis
Dorne having powers to relive the past and therefore learn from his mistakes to build better defences every time he "lost"... he could explain his absence as him going back and back and back in time (in his head) to find a way to undo what has been done... to try to undo the death of his father. He may end up being found and disturbed from "his work" and dragged back into teh present. That ties into the Taro card angle aswell...
The view/like ratio is a crime. It has been more than half a day, and the likes are still in the triple digits. Considering the quality of content Sandman has always given us - I don't find this acceptable. I don't usually do this - at least not for a TH-cam channel, though this has more to do with my relationship, or now lack thereof, with TH-cam itself. _Especially_ not for free. However I think it is time for me to begin directing some traffic from some of my sites to this channel. I guess I will look into contacting Sandman first, but if my secretary can't find a solid contact method today then I'll just take some liberties with it. Granted I do not foresee any real legal challenges to the idea - I've honestly never met someone who, having a public facing career, has ever turned down free advertising. TL;DR - Sandman deserves far more attention than he is getting in the WH40K content community. Therefore - I'm going to help for awhile. At least until his numbers are closer to acceptable.
1:03:40 He could be a large animated statue. Something the Colossus of Rhodes. Only maybe smaller and otherwise made of a colored type of Marble. The body and skin flexes like you’d expect, but only when the movement is caused by him. If he gets hit, it doesn’t disperse through his body like normal force. It wears away at the point of contact only.
Amazing job, Sandman. Not just from a lore covering perspective, but the voice acting was immaculate. You really have a talent for this. ;) This entire video just adds credit to the theory that _what_ is on the Throne right now is very different from _who_ was sat upon it. Now, I can understand where Cawl and Guilliman's fears about the Emperor are coming from... :/ Edit: I now have a nagging fear that GW is trying to turn modern 40k into the next Horus Heresy, to the detriment of any other faction than the Imperium or Chaos. But we'll just have to wait and see. ;/
20:00 The Emperor's motionless body was sitting on the Golden Throne for weeks now. Broken parts of his body have been mended as much as they could and where they couldn't replaced by many machinery including one of his eye. It was a painful sight to see for Dorn. Or anyone. Seeing The Emperor, his father, the one who always shown the way in this state... This was like a never ending torment to his soul and mind. During these last life long weeks, he was frequently finding himself craving for material pain to his body instead of this heavy curtain of grieve on his heart and mind. But all he could do was just wait and watch. Just like the Emperor's companions and Constantin Valdor do. There are many problems which requires the Reagent's attention indeed. But none was important as this. Rogal Dorn watched this macabre sight as he does for weeks in the colosssal throne room. Even though he was not willing to look at them, he could see and feel that The Companions are watching him like they are silently judging him too. But for what? Not being with The Emperor when he needs him to be? At he right moment and right place against The Lupercal? No... This shouldn't be it. They were all aware of the actions of faul warp on that day. Their captain, legendary Constantin Valdor was also not able to stand with his Emperor during his final confrontation with his traitor son. But Dorn was able to feel the same despiciency from the Captain general too. This was not normal or fair. Or maybe Dorn was just imagining these things he thought. Maybe he was not able to think clearly because of the abrupt absense of his father. At that exact moment, Captain General's thundreous voice echoed inside the throne room and pulled him out of this sea of doubt which was his own making, "You are not needed here, Dorn." Rogal Dorn was the Reagent Of Terra for a long time and he was working together with Constantin for a long time too. He couldn't go too far and say that they were like brothers ofcourse. Because Constantin Valdor was always and foremost; The Emperor's bodyguard. This fact alone was always like an invisible wall between them during their service on Terra. And after the recent events, after half of his brothers' betreyal, that wall was much more higher and thicker than ever before. Despite this fact, Dorn was believing that Constantin had a certain degree of respect for Dorn. Since now. But right now, the Captain General's cold and calculated voice signaling otherwise. Dorn struggled to contain his anger before retorting with rush, "I'm not here because I'm needed." I am here because I need it. Dorn didn't utter outloud the last part of his thoughts ofcourse. This thought was for him alone. He needed to be here. He needed to see his father. He needed the hope. A glimpse of a movement. Anything. Anything to quench the fire of regret inside him. Not the regret of not being able to help his father when he needs the most. For that sin; everyone except his brother Sanguinius and the Custodians died there were quilty. The sin he and only he had; was misinterpret the signs and giving the order to put The Emperor on the Golden Throne... Because it was not working. His father was not healing or communicating anyone. Dorn was understanding it now. The Emperor was not dead yet. That must be a glimmer of hope during these dark days, yes. But somehow that wasn't the case. Dorn was able feel this in his bones. Something was terribly wrong. *** Should I guys?
Great discussion, great theorizing, great stream. Absolutely agree with Quipster at the end. Hopefully we won’t have to wait too long. I hope they go there soon to prepare the setting for a Dorn return. Not specifically for Dorn to return, although that would be huge as well, but just to give us a glimpse of the scouring and Dorn after he places the Emperor on the Golden Throne.
All powerful immortal emperor: dies and has all these problems, despite having life support and a thousand souls sacrificed to him a day His son: dies and doesn’t do any of this and doesn’t have nearly as many problems
I feel like the Emperor is connected to the Old ones in some way. As he and Horus fought throughout the various settings in the warp, the Emperor showed aspects of Eldar in his martial moves, and at one point called a waaaaagh to kill Horus in one of the realities. Id imagine apart from an Orc the only other being who could call a waaaaagh is a "brain boy". I know its a stretch but I thought id bring it up here as if anyone could debunk or consider this it would be The Sandman of Terra.
The recombination of thousands of sacrificed and tortured pykers and shamans and one near god level entity of love mercy and loyalty sounds perfect for the emperor it is what he always was but more. The emperor was always torn between the desperate need to do things the scrambling and rushing and using others that resembles a tortured prisoner seeking an escape and a benevolent king that never wants to see his children or his subjects suffer. Both are evident in the lore creating space marines to the point that mutations happen and the process is deteriorating likewise punishing his son for worshiping him (likely because he feared that might become the impetus for his accession to the dark king) or his unwillingness to pull forces out to the webway in order to actually win the war against the traitors because he desperately wanted this project to work believing it would save everything. For his love and honor we see him trying to cure the night haunter of his madness, we see him offer Magnus forgiveness, we see him wanting to restore Ferris, not to mention him having to remove this aspect of himself because he still so deeply loves his son that it would cause him to hesitate. When these too halves of the emperor return it will be him as he was but simply more. He was always a man torn between two natures now those natures are only more extreme and powerful.
I saw the years of bleeding as explaining why he doesn't just recover - if he took 10,000 years of damage, then he can't recover for that amount of time and would need life support to bridge the gap until the damage is finally "healed" and he returns to his immortal self.
I would love to see a massive wolf protecting a small child. A shapeshifter Leman acting as protector and teacher of the star child as it grows. Watching this old primarch (as the lion) talking like a grandpa to this child that is actually a part of his father. It sounds silly and too...nice for warhammer 40k but imagine it for a second
The emperor explained his foresight to RA didn’t he ? He says he can see the start and the finish but everything inbetween is basically a jumbled fumbled timeline.
@@SandmanofTerra it’s an interesting point I feel as though people forget to mention when speaking on the emperor’s actions and there in choices made leading up to said actions and I feel as though it does alter what the story may turn into if he truly knows what he’ll end up becoming… here’s just hoping I see him step off of the golden throne in some way before I hit 40
@@kevinshort3943 So basically Old Ones' techs, humans are likely being one of failsafe plans for Old Ones to have living beings overcome both Necrons and tumors (Chaos) within The Warp
It was a key part in the webway project. Maybe a way to establish a constant and stable portal with the webway or, if i may throw a theory, it could be a webway generator that was hidden there from the necrons and their gods
I want Jaghatai to come back riding some kind of demon-engine with a keeper of secrets or bloodthirster in it or something out of a nightmare (aka whatever hellish shit the drucchi create). Dorn's superpower will probably be something related to his wrath, maybe he'll release a double of himself that's full-on attack mode, an unstoppable sword to his impervious shield... Would be cool for him to have any meaning to his ability to resist Khorne's calling having a play on his warp thing...
I think it might be that the emperor in the throne might become the dark king, and the side he cast into warp will become the star child. And of course the fight between them to decide the fate of the galaxy.
I think the real danger is that if the emperor is removed from the Golden throne without having that part of himself that he cast off - the part that seems to be backing the lion - there to join with him at that moment when he will finally die and come back fully. He'll have all that power, all that tortured time in the piston loop of pain with NONE and he'll reincarnate with NONE of the love, hope, or empathy necessary to tame it. And THAT would be..... terrifying.
Honestly I think something like that is quite likely to happen. What we know is that the starchild is the representation of the emperor's "good side". It is also implied that said child will be grounded in the materium. All this makes me think that the starchild won't be a warrior but a guide. An administrator and strategist, a leader of men. Having that part of the big E residing on Terra would allow the rest to manifest in the Warp. A god of discipline at all costs. A being embodying order, but uncaring about the cost of it.
@@Mortarion-xt9wp When they split the galaxy in 2, I was suspicious that they were going to split the Imperium into 2 factions. A Science, rational faction - like big Es original plan, and a dark superstitious faction like the imperium is now, but turned up to 11.
@@kevinshort3943 this is an interesting thought. A problem I see with it are the characters we know and love. After all if one half devolves a lot of heroes would end up in it.
Rereading it, I thought Abnett had the chance of tying a lot of incongruencies and ill explained strangeness and retcons by this losing of years, but they just came up with the idea way too late
My 2c. The emperor died. What we’re seeing now is an interpretation of the warp created by all those billions of believers. It’s probably waiting for the right moment to achieve apotheosis, although that might not be the best case scenario for humanity.
51:34 It could also be that the Emperor turns into a Chaos God (aka the Dark King) upon the reunion with the part of his soul he cast off.... Reason I say this is because it is in this moment he relinquishes his godlike powers and stops his ascension.. So, he blasted all the warp power he had accumulated - which would have turned him into the 5th Chaos God - into the Warp alongside his love and compassion... It is not too far fetched that a reunion with this part would simply restart the process of him becoming the Dark King, especially considering this fragment of his soul has grown much, much more powerful ever since
I beleive your point on the throne and the emperor sustaining each other is furthermore backed by the fact that Vulkan was suppose to take Malcador's place in case things went even more sideway. I may be mistaking, but him being a perpetual with maybe unknown power could have been a good zombie fit
Is it possible that the future that played out the way it needed to with the cards? Emperor on the throne stops him from returning without his emotions, now that part is stuck there while the “good” parts of the emperor finds its way back to its other half.
I know his foresight wasn't perfect. But it seems to me that even if he had an inkling that Horus was going to betray him or that some of the futures he saw had that happening he wouldn't have made Horus warmaster.
I liked the idea of the emperor being taken from the throne by Russ so he could be reborn or something like that (after a long time), and in that return Russ would take his place like Odin, and who would come as the 5th God of Chaos, or just a Minor god of war, would be Sanguinius
It would be interesting if the end direction GW takes the storyline is that the half of the Emperor's soul on the throne firmly believes in the Imperial Truth while the other half believes in the power of the Human Soul and the Imperium becomes divided over this issue as the same old xenos and warp issues keep happening
Endgame : the warp localized part of the emperor's soul, the starchild (?) and the materium localized part of the emperor's soul, on the golden throne, are the two main figures of a new heresy, a final civil war between humans, as long corrupted and lost in their ways imperial leaders, puppeteered by the golden throne emperor, by now a wretched tortured soul, devoid of empathy, a plaything of chaos (but not the 4 chaos gods mind you), a being who can only bring ruin and destruction, because that has been the very nature of its life for the past 10k years, against the worshipped warp emperor, by now a being a of love, only devoted to seeing mankind flourish. And in true grimdark fashion, the imperial leadership is CONVINCED that the starchild is a heretical being, a ploy of the chaos gods to finally bring the imperium down and the universe asa whole (the chaos gods would obviously heavily play into it), whereas in fact the warp emperor is genuin in his love and his purpose, but is seen as the deciever he isnt. Watch as the imperium crumbles on all sides as the war between the few who have seen the light, and understand it, and those who are blinded by 10k years of dogma and their belief that the god emperor, their saviour, is the tortured psycho soul sitting on the golden throne. It has become an apostle of chaos and ruin, and will lead humanity into damnation, the whole universe into damnation, as war erupts everywhere, as those who have seen the light try helplesly to convince imperial leadership of the catastrophic error of judgement they are making, not trying to kill them at first, but to show them that the true benevolent emperor is the warp emperor, the starchild (good luck buddy). The Lion has been compromised, he stands by the throne, eternally loyal. Guilliman understands that something is fucked up, largemy because of his contacts whitin the Eldar (Yvraine), who for ONCE decided to warn the humans about their error, only to be largely ignored because of this "strange behavior", uncaracteristic of the Eldar. The Khan returns on the side of the warp emperor, having found purpose (possibly helped in his understanding by the dark eldar ?) Dorn and Peter Turbo face off once again during the siege of terra v2, sadly dorn is ever loyal, just as the Lion, and this time Perturabo is on the side of the starchild, who finally cured the wounds inflicted upon him by the sword of Fulgrim, bringing him back into the fold (also the warp emperor is all love and parental careness, so perty is a good boi now). Lorgar Aurelion turns coat one final time, he attempted to further the agenda of his masters and lead humanity towards the throne emperor, but, on walk (?) in the warp, he meets the warp emperor, and is turned blind by his holy light (insert redemption arc as a god damn paladin). The others stand by their dark gods. As the war reaches its climax, the warp emperor realises that in order to win, in order to prevent the total destruction of humanity and the universe, he has to merge with his other half on terra. Their souls no longer compatible, it would destroy them both, irreversably. But thats the choice he makes. Humanity will be alone now, but it shall survive, and perhaps, without his presence as a herald, a messiah, the grasp of the chaos gods on humanity would not be as strong. Perhaps this is what the original emperor, not the warp entity, had planned all along.
You take years of an immortal being you effectively put them to sleep or take them out of the physical plane for however long they take to heal. That's why he's sat there for 10k years.
You said, what would happen if the emperor on the throne and the emperor in the warp would merge and reincarnate, I wholeheartedly think we would see the dark king; chaos god of malice re-emerge And that would be fucking terrifying
What if the Emperor wants the Throne broken? That in repairing it they might finally complete His goal? Or that in allowing it to fail he might be resurrected?
What if Beckwyn is wrong and Valdor is not the king in yellow but it's the starchild and Valdor has been there protecting that piece of the emporer and acting at its behest so people think it's Valdor
@@Abefroman-lq3md Well Russ and Valdor both had visions at the same time and left maybe Valdor to be the protector and Russ to find the catalyst to restore the 2 parts the tree of life and like with Guilliman for it to work someone has to kill what remains on the throne and thats where Cypher comes in but not yet because all the pieces aren't in place pretty wild but thats the way I'd write it
OMG.. 1 year later is better than never i guess when valdor pisses off and says ONLY IN DEATH.. is he trying to find a way to kill Big E so he can bring him back?? :D
Maybe Horus caused 10,000 years of damage and that is what is meant. 10,000 years of damage = 10,000 years to mend. 100,000 years of damage = 100,000 years to mend.
I never knew malcador used to argue that some of the primarchs should be girls. Where can that be found in the books? Or wondering atleast why he thought that would be useful
Could Valdor give the Apollonian spear to the starchild and have them kill the emperors body on the golden throne as a way of re-unifying the 2 different aspects of the emperors soul?
He did tell Horus that he both forgave him and that he would see him again, and that was AFTER He had already sustained Every blow. If even obliterated horus can come bac.. Perpetuals have come back intact even after complete annihilation of their physical form. If Vulcan lives, the Emporer certainly can too. That final fight felt cartoonish at one point with the whole beams of energy from chests and whatnot.
Sorry new to the setting and trying to get to grips with it. But is this the classic grim dark case of everyone believes they are doing the right thing by putting him on the throne when in fact it’s the exact opposite? If they just took the emperor off the throne would he be able to just heal himself? But he’s stuck in this never ending torture because people believe they are doing the right thing by keeping him on there?
The Emperor went to the throne willing, long story short one of his sons f-up and poked a hole in the fabric of existance in holy terra, so the emperor need to sit on the throne to keep this hole shut otherwise legions of demons will come flooding through and anihilating everything that exists. So from humanity's perspective: The emperor dies - Humanity is wiped The emperor is taken from the throne - Humanity is wiped The throne fails because of lack of maintance (happening) - Humanity is wiped The only thing keeping humanity from being anihilated is the unbending will of a human that's being tortured for 10.000 years just to keep humanity alive, and he's dying.
If an " immortal" can die, ever, then they were never truly immortal. Maybe long lived, maybe serial reincarnators, maybe imbued with multiple lives, but never real immortality. I believe the lore has stated multiple times, that the Emperor is truly immortal, as is Vulkan because he inherited it from the Emperor. When Erda died she proved she wasn't a true immortal, neither was Malcador, same thing with Ollianius Persson.
I would love to see something that would develop and smash the hell of of tyranids!! They way too OP for just some beings that just eat everything....I hate the idea of them Soo much!!!
If you want more information on what the Golden Throne actually does and it's dark twin, check out this video here: th-cam.com/video/6fgM2bFdZfE/w-d-xo.htmlsi=2dfMoICGZXOTj_MG
I can't decide if I like the dark twin chair. It makes the Golden Throne less mysterious.
Are you actually going to post again??
I really and truly appreciate the way you present everything, particularly putting that Abnett interview in the context of the narrative at large. There's nothing better than actually showing the authors' view from their own mouths and using that as a base from which to launch a discussion about the work. For so many of us its the culmination of years of reading, it deserves this kind of deep dive.
This is done by chatGPT and an AI voice.
@@kaptenhangpung3538What????
@kaptenhangpung3538 you are a bot. Dude does live shows with his face on them. Get real.
If Leetu actually tracks down and kills Erebus in 40K he will instantly become the most popular character in the setting.
Stop with the Erebus hate. He’s more fascinating than 75% of the current characters.
@@jasoninthehood9726 Fuck Erebus, but yes he is interesting. That is why we hate him so much because he is written so well to be hated. Despite saying that, FUCK EREBUS!
@@jasoninthehood9726 But I like hating Erebus, it's fun
@@jasoninthehood9726Are we not allowed to hate someone/something that is also fascinating? The same things that make him fascinating are what provokes the negative emotional reactions to him
Feel silly asking this but Erebus is still around in current setting…..so “Leetu” has been working this for 10k years lol….
Wonder if he has some connection form king in yellow action.
The "lost years" can not only be years lost of his immortality (so practically the future), but also years of his past. I think the visiting of all these passed events (e.g. Istvaan) suggests that Horus is robbing him the defining moments f his life.
The E had already given up part of his soul before the fight, so robbing him of his past (in form of memories) could weaken him further and further, torture him .. exactly what Horus wants.
Cool way of seeing things, very interesting possibility and plotlines
The part of the Emperor removing his "good" part really gives new meaning to his reunion with Guilliman. Calling him his last hope.
Bringing Dorn back as a psyker would really be a setting shake up
Bring his true form as psychic sentient fortress that span continents that can reform himself, just like Magnus and Leman Russ' true forms when they combated each other like kaijus/kaijin/Ultraman in old (and still running well) Japanese shows
@@ohamatchhams Ha, reminds me of when Sanguinius encountered a chaos space hulk the size of a solar system, thats what Dorn would be.
Not a chance.
I think you forget who he is.
"I am Rogal Dorn, Praetorian of Terra, primarch of the Seventh Legion Imperial Fists, seventh-found son, defiant and unyielding."
He broke Khorne with his sheer defiance.
Anybody who tried to alter him would find that he is the immovable object...right before they find out he is also the unstioppable force.
And they are caught between both.
@@TheSiladhielYou forgot to also add he’s the most boring primarch.
@@jasoninthehood9726You can have that opinion, but I’d argue he is one of the most interesting.
Dorn is a constancy in a universe that hates it. I mean the main antagonist is literally called Chaos. We have a universe where nothing stays the same, order is near extinct, yet one Primarch out of them all encapsulates constancy where no other brother even tries.
That’s unique.
It is worth noting, that it is the past years that The Emperor bleeds away. We have this directly stated by Horus. The Emperor is bleeding his past away.
What does that mean
@@diegoestradahernandez2728 The Emperor bleed past years. It is implied that if he had run out, he would have stopped existing.
But we don't get details.
@Kristian.B.Kristiansen, they might be hinting that he lost a bit of his personality
That scene with Malcadors last thoughts on Vulkan and Rogal Dorn were beautiful, I teared up
I‘m really new to Warhammer 40k and your videos have really made me invested thanks a lot. Ps. Please more videos on the characters opinions of each other, I personally find this the most interesting.
Glad you like them!
I didn't expect 40k to turn into yugioh, but here we are!
Side note: do they sell actual physical cards of the emperor's tarot anywhere? I REALLY wan to buy some!
yea i want that too xD
In Dune Leto 2 is Paul Maudib's son and the person who becomes the sandworm God Emperor who walks the Golden Path
If anyone is a fan of this grim dark and doesn’t see their roots in the golden path? They should be given no help
Thanks for spending time with us
This was a brilliant video to listen to as I was painting last night.
These kinds of lore discussions are great for reinterpretting my own understanding of the fiction.
The Emperor and The Golden Throne is something so pivotal to the setting and yet it's kind of overlooked.
I think what we have now is the possibility for different facets of him to appear.
The "human" Emperor, The "God" Emperor, The Dark King - it's interesting to consider.
I hope they don't try to bring Horus back now that they changed his death to be "normal" rather than being erased from the warp.
With what we know about Bequin, and the fact that the star child is described as a little girl, it makes you wonder if in Pandemonium may end with Beta becoming a grail for the Emperor eventually, maybe
Can 100% confirm. If the emporer returns he will definitely be a chick.
And wasn’t it a little girl that was the only person able to navigate through Tzneech’s crystal palace?
Started reading the Eisenhorn series last month as a result of this channel and I'm almost done the series now. Maybe I'll push to start the main 40k series later this year
Ahh amazing! Love knowing that my viewers read
20:00 - that book would probably have a title, the IP tag line, and then everything between the prologue and epilogue would be 10,000 pages saying the word "ow".
An audio book with millions of lines of "ow" using the voice from if the emperor had a tts device
If the wounds of Big e have caused him "to lose years", those years might transfer into the number of years he has to be interred on the Golden throne in a kind of stasis
Dorne having powers to relive the past and therefore learn from his mistakes to build better defences every time he "lost"... he could explain his absence as him going back and back and back in time (in his head) to find a way to undo what has been done... to try to undo the death of his father.
He may end up being found and disturbed from "his work" and dragged back into teh present. That ties into the Taro card angle aswell...
10:00 Plot twist: The fight between the Emperor and Horus was actually a Yu-Gi-Oh duel.
Clearly the best 40k lore channel by far ! Really appreciate ur content ! Keep it like this ! from France 🇫🇷🤜🏼🤛🏼
This is truly an excellent channel with such a superb breakdown.
Salutations from Belfast Northern Ireland 🇬🇧
Another local man here also bud. Stay safe brother.
@@RobsonRoverRepair . You too! 🇬🇧👍👍
The view/like ratio is a crime. It has been more than half a day, and the likes are still in the triple digits. Considering the quality of content Sandman has always given us - I don't find this acceptable.
I don't usually do this - at least not for a TH-cam channel, though this has more to do with my relationship, or now lack thereof, with TH-cam itself. _Especially_ not for free. However I think it is time for me to begin directing some traffic from some of my sites to this channel. I guess I will look into contacting Sandman first, but if my secretary can't find a solid contact method today then I'll just take some liberties with it. Granted I do not foresee any real legal challenges to the idea - I've honestly never met someone who, having a public facing career, has ever turned down free advertising.
TL;DR - Sandman deserves far more attention than he is getting in the WH40K content community. Therefore - I'm going to help for awhile. At least until his numbers are closer to acceptable.
Rogal will start to receive tarot messages from the Emperor.
1:03:40 He could be a large animated statue. Something the Colossus of Rhodes. Only maybe smaller and otherwise made of a colored type of Marble. The body and skin flexes like you’d expect, but only when the movement is caused by him. If he gets hit, it doesn’t disperse through his body like normal force. It wears away at the point of contact only.
Given the other developments afoot, I'll be surprised if they don't connect the Sigillite magic back to Enuncia.
Amazing job, Sandman. Not just from a lore covering perspective, but the voice acting was immaculate. You really have a talent for this. ;)
This entire video just adds credit to the theory that _what_ is on the Throne right now is very different from _who_ was sat upon it.
Now, I can understand where Cawl and Guilliman's fears about the Emperor are coming from... :/
Edit: I now have a nagging fear that GW is trying to turn modern 40k into the next Horus Heresy, to the detriment of any other faction than the Imperium or Chaos. But we'll just have to wait and see. ;/
I think it's pretty important to note big e cast of his loyalty.
Who does he then serve? Still mankind? Seems impossible.
I mean, it also seems imposible for Him to say _"i still love you Horus"_ one book after exorsicing himself of his love, but whatever.
@@leandrocastello309just like Necron keep soulling despite being soulless.
20:00
The Emperor's motionless body was sitting on the Golden Throne for weeks now.
Broken parts of his body have been mended as much as they could and where they couldn't replaced by many machinery including one of his eye.
It was a painful sight to see for Dorn. Or anyone.
Seeing The Emperor, his father, the one who always shown the way in this state... This was like a never ending torment to his soul and mind.
During these last life long weeks, he was frequently finding himself craving for material pain to his body instead of this heavy curtain of grieve on his heart and mind.
But all he could do was just wait and watch.
Just like the Emperor's companions and Constantin Valdor do.
There are many problems which requires the Reagent's attention indeed. But none was important as this.
Rogal Dorn watched this macabre sight as he does for weeks in the colosssal throne room. Even though he was not willing to look at them, he could see and feel that The Companions are watching him like they are silently judging him too.
But for what?
Not being with The Emperor when he needs him to be? At he right moment and right place against The Lupercal?
No...
This shouldn't be it.
They were all aware of the actions of faul warp on that day. Their captain, legendary Constantin Valdor was also not able to stand with his Emperor during his final confrontation with his traitor son. But Dorn was able to feel the same despiciency from the Captain general too. This was not normal or fair.
Or maybe Dorn was just imagining these things he thought. Maybe he was not able to think clearly because of the abrupt absense of his father.
At that exact moment, Captain General's thundreous voice echoed inside the throne room and pulled him out of this sea of doubt which was his own making,
"You are not needed here, Dorn."
Rogal Dorn was the Reagent Of Terra for a long time and he was working together with Constantin for a long time too. He couldn't go too far and say that they were like brothers ofcourse. Because Constantin Valdor was always and foremost; The Emperor's bodyguard. This fact alone was always like an invisible wall between them during their service on Terra. And after the recent events, after half of his brothers' betreyal, that wall was much more higher and thicker than ever before.
Despite this fact, Dorn was believing that Constantin had a certain degree of respect for Dorn. Since now.
But right now, the Captain General's cold and calculated voice signaling otherwise.
Dorn struggled to contain his anger before retorting with rush,
"I'm not here because I'm needed."
I am here because I need it.
Dorn didn't utter outloud the last part of his thoughts ofcourse. This thought was for him alone.
He needed to be here. He needed to see his father. He needed the hope. A glimpse of a movement. Anything.
Anything to quench the fire of regret inside him.
Not the regret of not being able to help his father when he needs the most. For that sin; everyone except his brother Sanguinius and the Custodians died there were quilty.
The sin he and only he had; was misinterpret the signs and giving the order to put The Emperor on the Golden Throne...
Because it was not working. His father was not healing or communicating anyone. Dorn was understanding it now.
The Emperor was not dead yet. That must be a glimmer of hope during these dark days, yes. But somehow that wasn't the case.
Dorn was able feel this in his bones.
Something was terribly wrong.
***
Should I guys?
Great discussion, great theorizing, great stream. Absolutely agree with Quipster at the end. Hopefully we won’t have to wait too long. I hope they go there soon to prepare the setting for a Dorn return. Not specifically for Dorn to return, although that would be huge as well, but just to give us a glimpse of the scouring and Dorn after he places the Emperor on the Golden Throne.
Corvus has to come back next.
So emperor chooses not to die on the throne.
God i wish Malkador inferior from Cawl using mentioned writings of the Sigilight
All powerful immortal emperor: dies and has all these problems, despite having life support and a thousand souls sacrificed to him a day
His son: dies and doesn’t do any of this and doesn’t have nearly as many problems
I feel like the Emperor is connected to the Old ones in some way. As he and Horus fought throughout the various settings in the warp, the Emperor showed aspects of Eldar in his martial moves, and at one point called a waaaaagh to kill Horus in one of the realities. Id imagine apart from an Orc the only other being who could call a waaaaagh is a "brain boy". I know its a stretch but I thought id bring it up here as if anyone could debunk or consider this it would be The Sandman of Terra.
possibility that Emperor is a old one, which survived and transformed is not that low
The recombination of thousands of sacrificed and tortured pykers and shamans and one near god level entity of love mercy and loyalty sounds perfect for the emperor it is what he always was but more. The emperor was always torn between the desperate need to do things the scrambling and rushing and using others that resembles a tortured prisoner seeking an escape and a benevolent king that never wants to see his children or his subjects suffer. Both are evident in the lore creating space marines to the point that mutations happen and the process is deteriorating likewise punishing his son for worshiping him (likely because he feared that might become the impetus for his accession to the dark king) or his unwillingness to pull forces out to the webway in order to actually win the war against the traitors because he desperately wanted this project to work believing it would save everything. For his love and honor we see him trying to cure the night haunter of his madness, we see him offer Magnus forgiveness, we see him wanting to restore Ferris, not to mention him having to remove this aspect of himself because he still so deeply loves his son that it would cause him to hesitate. When these too halves of the emperor return it will be him as he was but simply more. He was always a man torn between two natures now those natures are only more extreme and powerful.
Another amazing video. Quickly becoming my favorite lorecaster on the interwebs!
“Bleeds years” could be an indication of how long he would need to be on the thrown before he’s A-Ok and good to go 👍
That's exactly what I thought too.
It's throne, you just said the past tense of throwing something.
@@DeathBYDesign666 my mother is my sister
Wait… wait… a card battle? Did Abnett inject an homage to TTS?
Probably going to be a new GW product
Trust in the Spleen of the Cards, Rogal!
I saw the years of bleeding as explaining why he doesn't just recover - if he took 10,000 years of damage, then he can't recover for that amount of time and would need life support to bridge the gap until the damage is finally "healed" and he returns to his immortal self.
"Their fight wasn’t only physical…. But also via cards"
Horus: Urewa turn! Duro!
I would love to see a massive wolf protecting a small child. A shapeshifter Leman acting as protector and teacher of the star child as it grows. Watching this old primarch (as the lion) talking like a grandpa to this child that is actually a part of his father. It sounds silly and too...nice for warhammer 40k but imagine it for a second
The emperor explained his foresight to RA didn’t he ? He says he can see the start and the finish but everything inbetween is basically a jumbled fumbled timeline.
Yeah that's basically how I view it. I'll have to double check the quote
@@SandmanofTerra it’s an interesting point I feel as though people forget to mention when speaking on the emperor’s actions and there in choices made leading up to said actions and I feel as though it does alter what the story may turn into if he truly knows what he’ll end up becoming… here’s just hoping I see him step off of the golden throne in some way before I hit 40
So if the golden throne is xenos tech, where did it come from and who was it originally intended for?
Somewhere else it was implied it was eldari/old one, and used in some way with the webway.
@@kevinshort3943 So basically Old Ones' techs, humans are likely being one of failsafe plans for Old Ones to have living beings overcome both Necrons and tumors (Chaos) within The Warp
It was a key part in the webway project. Maybe a way to establish a constant and stable portal with the webway or, if i may throw a theory, it could be a webway generator that was hidden there from the necrons and their gods
daaamm its been 2 weeks alrdy ?? amazing video man kkeep rewatching
Sorry, working on something big!
@SandmanofTerra Please let it be about when the Phonecian was a slutty runway model
In this episode, Leetu teaches Rogal Dorn to trust in the Splleen of the Cards!
toput this in perspective , no one would wanna F with the Sanq but Horus like just squished him like a fly
I feel like the Emperor didn't bring his full power to bear until it was almost to late. He was holding back
He almost became a chaos god he sent the power away
Throne and revelation cards. It was revealed to Dorn that placing the Emperor there was not the answer
Sandman, you are the man.
I want to do a Dorn stream with you 🙏
Could talk forever about my boi Rogal.
The Emperor could have roasted Horus but he held back..damn
I want Jaghatai to come back riding some kind of demon-engine with a keeper of secrets or bloodthirster in it or something out of a nightmare (aka whatever hellish shit the drucchi create).
Dorn's superpower will probably be something related to his wrath, maybe he'll release a double of himself that's full-on attack mode, an unstoppable sword to his impervious shield... Would be cool for him to have any meaning to his ability to resist Khorne's calling having a play on his warp thing...
I think it might be that the emperor in the throne might become the dark king, and the side he cast into warp will become the star child. And of course the fight between them to decide the fate of the galaxy.
I think the real danger is that if the emperor is removed from the Golden throne without having that part of himself that he cast off - the part that seems to be backing the lion - there to join with him at that moment when he will finally die and come back fully. He'll have all that power, all that tortured time in the piston loop of pain with NONE and he'll reincarnate with NONE of the love, hope, or empathy necessary to tame it. And THAT would be..... terrifying.
Honestly I think something like that is quite likely to happen.
What we know is that the starchild is the representation of the emperor's "good side". It is also implied that said child will be grounded in the materium. All this makes me think that the starchild won't be a warrior but a guide. An administrator and strategist, a leader of men.
Having that part of the big E residing on Terra would allow the rest to manifest in the Warp. A god of discipline at all costs. A being embodying order, but uncaring about the cost of it.
@@Mortarion-xt9wp
When they split the galaxy in 2, I was suspicious that they were going to split the Imperium into 2 factions.
A Science, rational faction - like big Es original plan, and a dark superstitious faction like the imperium is now, but turned up to 11.
@@kevinshort3943 this is an interesting thought. A problem I see with it are the characters we know and love.
After all if one half devolves a lot of heroes would end up in it.
I sense the potential for a clash between the throne emperor and star child.
Rereading it, I thought Abnett had the chance of tying a lot of incongruencies and ill explained strangeness and retcons by this losing of years, but they just came up with the idea way too late
My 2c. The emperor died. What we’re seeing now is an interpretation of the warp created by all those billions of believers. It’s probably waiting for the right moment to achieve apotheosis, although that might not be the best case scenario for humanity.
51:34 It could also be that the Emperor turns into a Chaos God (aka the Dark King) upon the reunion with the part of his soul he cast off.... Reason I say this is because it is in this moment he relinquishes his godlike powers and stops his ascension.. So, he blasted all the warp power he had accumulated - which would have turned him into the 5th Chaos God - into the Warp alongside his love and compassion... It is not too far fetched that a reunion with this part would simply restart the process of him becoming the Dark King, especially considering this fragment of his soul has grown much, much more powerful ever since
Valdor is currently building the star child’s army in the Warp with The Star Child’s New Warp Malcador
Primarch Rog being a massive Warp fist reminds me of the old Ork gag power of fhe Fist of Mork (the hand of the player slapping down on the rabletop)
Truly amazing presentation... I know fuck all about warhammer but I really enjoy your videos.
I beleive your point on the throne and the emperor sustaining each other is furthermore backed by the fact that Vulkan was suppose to take Malcador's place in case things went even more sideway.
I may be mistaking, but him being a perpetual with maybe unknown power could have been a good zombie fit
I've yet to have another reading, this is good stuff to hear 👍, making me want to....
Is it possible that the future that played out the way it needed to with the cards? Emperor on the throne stops him from returning without his emotions, now that part is stuck there while the “good” parts of the emperor finds its way back to its other half.
I know his foresight wasn't perfect. But it seems to me that even if he had an inkling that Horus was going to betray him or that some of the futures he saw had that happening he wouldn't have made Horus warmaster.
I liked the idea of the emperor being taken from the throne by Russ so he could be reborn or something like that (after a long time), and in that return Russ would take his place like Odin, and who would come as the 5th God of Chaos, or just a Minor god of war, would be Sanguinius
Brilliant 🙌
It would be interesting if the end direction GW takes the storyline is that the half of the Emperor's soul on the throne firmly believes in the Imperial Truth while the other half believes in the power of the Human Soul and the Imperium becomes divided over this issue as the same old xenos and warp issues keep happening
Another great one
Endgame : the warp localized part of the emperor's soul, the starchild (?) and the materium localized part of the emperor's soul, on the golden throne, are the two main figures of a new heresy, a final civil war between humans, as long corrupted and lost in their ways imperial leaders, puppeteered by the golden throne emperor, by now a wretched tortured soul, devoid of empathy, a plaything of chaos (but not the 4 chaos gods mind you), a being who can only bring ruin and destruction, because that has been the very nature of its life for the past 10k years, against the worshipped warp emperor, by now a being a of love, only devoted to seeing mankind flourish.
And in true grimdark fashion, the imperial leadership is CONVINCED that the starchild is a heretical being, a ploy of the chaos gods to finally bring the imperium down and the universe asa whole (the chaos gods would obviously heavily play into it), whereas in fact the warp emperor is genuin in his love and his purpose, but is seen as the deciever he isnt.
Watch as the imperium crumbles on all sides as the war between the few who have seen the light, and understand it, and those who are blinded by 10k years of dogma and their belief that the god emperor, their saviour, is the tortured psycho soul sitting on the golden throne. It has become an apostle of chaos and ruin, and will lead humanity into damnation, the whole universe into damnation, as war erupts everywhere, as those who have seen the light try helplesly to convince imperial leadership of the catastrophic error of judgement they are making, not trying to kill them at first, but to show them that the true benevolent emperor is the warp emperor, the starchild (good luck buddy).
The Lion has been compromised, he stands by the throne, eternally loyal.
Guilliman understands that something is fucked up, largemy because of his contacts whitin the Eldar (Yvraine), who for ONCE decided to warn the humans about their error, only to be largely ignored because of this "strange behavior", uncaracteristic of the Eldar.
The Khan returns on the side of the warp emperor, having found purpose (possibly helped in his understanding by the dark eldar ?)
Dorn and Peter Turbo face off once again during the siege of terra v2, sadly dorn is ever loyal, just as the Lion, and this time Perturabo is on the side of the starchild, who finally cured the wounds inflicted upon him by the sword of Fulgrim, bringing him back into the fold (also the warp emperor is all love and parental careness, so perty is a good boi now).
Lorgar Aurelion turns coat one final time, he attempted to further the agenda of his masters and lead humanity towards the throne emperor, but, on walk (?) in the warp, he meets the warp emperor, and is turned blind by his holy light (insert redemption arc as a god damn paladin).
The others stand by their dark gods.
As the war reaches its climax, the warp emperor realises that in order to win, in order to prevent the total destruction of humanity and the universe, he has to merge with his other half on terra. Their souls no longer compatible, it would destroy them both, irreversably. But thats the choice he makes. Humanity will be alone now, but it shall survive, and perhaps, without his presence as a herald, a messiah, the grasp of the chaos gods on humanity would not be as strong. Perhaps this is what the original emperor, not the warp entity, had planned all along.
You take years of an immortal being you effectively put them to sleep or take them out of the physical plane for however long they take to heal. That's why he's sat there for 10k years.
Perhaps he needs to be on the throne for those "bled" years, before he can regenerate/reincarnate ?
You said, what would happen if the emperor on the throne and the emperor in the warp would merge and reincarnate, I wholeheartedly think we would see the dark king; chaos god of malice re-emerge
And that would be fucking terrifying
Maybe the Emperor isnt healing cause he's missing a part of his soul.
hearing this story makes me wonder how powerfull horus must realy be :)
Blummin marvellous ❤
Good stuff!
What if the Emperor wants the Throne broken? That in repairing it they might finally complete His goal? Or that in allowing it to fail he might be resurrected?
Ty Sandman😊
What if Beckwyn is wrong and Valdor is not the king in yellow but it's the starchild and Valdor has been there protecting that piece of the emporer and acting at its behest so people think it's Valdor
Great concept.
@@Abefroman-lq3md Well Russ and Valdor both had visions at the same time and left maybe Valdor to be the protector and Russ to find the catalyst to restore the 2 parts the tree of life and like with Guilliman for it to work someone has to kill what remains on the throne and thats where Cypher comes in but not yet because all the pieces aren't in place pretty wild but thats the way I'd write it
I would like to see a race that were tyranids hunters
I want to see what the Nids are fleeing from.
Has there been any new material with the Lion? I haven't heard anything since Son of the Forest which was more than a year ago.
Not really. This was the latest: th-cam.com/video/u-bPPGjPpEk/w-d-xo.htmlsi=W4h-ZEU4xM4b5Ng2
OMG.. 1 year later is better than never i guess
when valdor pisses off and says ONLY IN DEATH.. is he trying to find a way to kill Big E so he can bring him back?? :D
I have a feeling robute guilliman is going to end the emperor with the emperor s blade fire blade so he can reancarnate 😊
What if the years taken from him is the amount of time it takes him to reawaken/reanimate?
Maybe Horus caused 10,000 years of damage and that is what is meant. 10,000 years of damage = 10,000 years to mend. 100,000 years of damage = 100,000 years to mend.
Seems to me like a good way to measure damage on an immortal. Rather than shortening their life, you cause them to miss some of it.
Will the tarot tell Dorn to put on the pain glove?
I never knew malcador used to argue that some of the primarchs should be girls. Where can that be found in the books? Or wondering atleast why he thought that would be useful
Could Valdor give the Apollonian spear to the starchild and have them kill the emperors body on the golden throne as a way of re-unifying the 2 different aspects of the emperors soul?
He did tell Horus that he both forgave him and that he would see him again, and that was AFTER He had already sustained Every blow. If even obliterated horus can come bac..
Perpetuals have come back intact even after complete annihilation of their physical form. If Vulcan lives, the Emporer certainly can too.
That final fight felt cartoonish at one point with the whole beams of energy from chests and whatnot.
Great content!
Maybe Lee 2 is a neat puppet for the Emperor
I wonder if Dan Abbot would like your ideas
Ohh you are back. Great .:-)
1:04:30 Kroot Spartacus
why is this unlisted?
he has edits to make
it was a livestream, this is common
Sorry new to the setting and trying to get to grips with it. But is this the classic grim dark case of everyone believes they are doing the right thing by putting him on the throne when in fact it’s the exact opposite? If they just took the emperor off the throne would he be able to just heal himself? But he’s stuck in this never ending torture because people believe they are doing the right thing by keeping him on there?
The Emperor went to the throne willing, long story short one of his sons f-up and poked a hole in the fabric of existance in holy terra, so the emperor need to sit on the throne to keep this hole shut otherwise legions of demons will come flooding through and anihilating everything that exists. So from humanity's perspective:
The emperor dies - Humanity is wiped
The emperor is taken from the throne - Humanity is wiped
The throne fails because of lack of maintance (happening) - Humanity is wiped
The only thing keeping humanity from being anihilated is the unbending will of a human that's being tortured for 10.000 years just to keep humanity alive, and he's dying.
If an " immortal" can die, ever, then they were never truly immortal. Maybe long lived, maybe serial reincarnators, maybe imbued with multiple lives, but never real immortality. I believe the lore has stated multiple times, that the Emperor is truly immortal, as is Vulkan because he inherited it from the Emperor. When Erda died she proved she wasn't a true immortal, neither was Malcador, same thing with Ollianius Persson.
And then when all is lost and all is dead?????? HUGS AND BOOOOPS….. for Vulcan lives
Isn't he now the empress?
I would love to see something that would develop and smash the hell of of tyranids!! They way too OP for just some beings that just eat everything....I hate the idea of them Soo much!!!
mfw thats why malcador was screaming the entire time on the throne mfw. jesus emperor.