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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 เม.ย. 2024
- Dig into political philosopher John Rawls’ classic thought experiment about what principles we need to design a fair society.
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A group of strangers have gathered to design a just society. To ensure none of them rig the system, they’ve been placed under a veil of ignorance. Under this veil, they’re blind to information about age, sex, profession, wealth, religion, and so on. Can they build a fair society where everyone has the resources they need? Joseph Lacey details John Rawls' classic thought experiment.
Lesson by Joseph Lacey, directed by Eoin Duffy.
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Name one.
too good to be true I don't buy it
a naive manchild made this video
Wrong. Healthy democracy should rely on giving people choice. Forced education is not choice
"Healthy nations" is an oxymoron. Only the top classes thinks it can exist such thing. They are nonetheless unable to target the reasons of why classes exist in the first place.
🎉🙌 So proud to have worked on this! Glad to have to out there :)
Yeah, uh did you know they made a video directly contradicting this one? They denounced the idea of a utopia in "How to recognize a dystopia". You're working with a bunch of hypocrites.
@@Gordy-io8sb its funny, because if you cared to even watch the video rather than read the titles you'd know the Dystopia video is about literally dystopias and their presence in books affected the past, whilst this one talks on an author's theory on a better government system.
That's without saying that Ted-Ed is more of a video-based forum article. Of course there's a checking, but each writer decides the focus of their own work. That's what the names by the side of the titles are for.
I don't always agree with their videos, but they are good content.
Thanks for making an animation so attention grabbing that I had to turn it off the second time through so I could focus on the words.
How does one into animating for Ted-Ed?
@@Gordy-io8sbSo what? They are simply conveying the idea of the author. Are you trying to say that a teacher should not teach his students about Communism because he taught Capitalism last week?
I had to watch it twice. Second time just to focus on the audio.
The graphics are simply phenomenal!
I'm aiming for 3, this kind of debates make me want to think about more and more "what ifs" and that is also fun. Maybe 4🤓
i found them useless
pretty, but useless
Always...
Prophet Muhammad's rule created the perfect society in early Islam era.
Um no it didn’t
I definitely agree on a limit of campaign spending and donations. I also think there should not be a minimum wage but a maximum wage. That maximum wage being % based on the wages of all employees within the company. If a CEO wants themselves and upper management to earn more, than all their employees have to earn more. It would encourage a stronger work environment, decrease stress, and promote innovation.
Politicians would not be able to earn more than the average wage of all the people they govern. Encouraging them to make policies that benefit their citizens health, education, capabilities, etc in order to be higher wage earners. This would also make it more likely that people that want to help others would be politicans rather than the power and money hungry folks.
and ban lobbying
Maximum wage is a new one for me, but it somewhat makes sense if we also include managing certain fringe/side benefits, like shares in a company
I’ve been arguing for a maximum wage since the 80s when trickle-down economics began increasing the wealth gap to the worst in history. No single person should own $100 billion…
You don't understand how the economy works lol
@@BicBoi1984 The 'economy' as the term is used today is a made up system by humans. It doesn't exist. The reality is that people are the economy. The workforce makes up the economy.
Ever notice that when people have less money and less employment that is when the economy tanks? People are the economy. Give them stability in work and money and they will keep the economy strong and stable in return. Its truly that simple.
If you think otherwise you are likely misled by those who wanted to keep their slaves whose 'teachings' have infested into capitalist doctrine.
Apart from the quality content, we often praise the relentless creativity of TEDed's illustrations, but let's all appreciate for a moment how well thought is the sound design of these videos! The attention for such details shows how the creators are dedicated to their work! Thank you, TEDed Team, for your awesome work!🙌
It’s artistic in one sense and philosophical in another!
And dead end in the sense of reality
I’m waiting on the ‘how to build a dystopia’ sequel
They did a dystopia video a few years ago!
I’m looking for more a tutorial, you know?
@@leeqiminlink?
Read Heidegger
Just read history
Building from the ground up is easy but changing existing structures is hard. People don't want to be told that they're not special, and the 10 years they spent growing 1 million dollars to 2 million dollars wasn't hard and most people could do it if they started with 1 million dollars and it wasn't hard work that got them there.
The creativity behind these animations is outstanding!!
Free education or at least good quality and cheaper education along with cheaper medical care would be my version of Utopia in this world. I know places in the west have it but its not everywhere. Either the quality of education and health care is sub par or they're expensive.
The problem with free services is they allow pathways to corruption, as an example here in South America, we've got the free services, but they are perfect excuses for money to disappear into whilst our schools are falling apart. Without proper ways to fight corruption you end up with a bloated system that burns through millions each year to still give the bare minimum help, just like here where if you look to use the free medical system you'll be on a waitlist for at least a month.
Without free education a society always becomes a plutocracy (ruled by the rich) because the rich have unaccountable power over the education system because it's run for profit
A good student can learn in a bad school. A bad student can't learn in a good school
South America's corruption problems are majorly attached to foreigner interests in continuying the corruption to hinder development. There are countless historical examples of countries trying to fix their issues and receiving outside intervention. A just society allows for true competition, in inside and outside markets.
@dsoul1305 As a South American. Peruvian, to be precise. I completely disagree. The closest thing to direct outsider intervention have been two cases.
Operacion Condor that tried to counterract the international plan of multiple communist parties on overtalinf their countries goverments.
And how the ONU have constantly tried to safeguard members of Sendero Luminoso and the MRTA. Terrorist groups that were horrible in this country.
I really love the simplicity of this animation
the vision for a just society under the veil of ignorance is a compelling reminder of the importance of fairness in our foundational structures. It challenges us to consider how policies might be shaped if we prioritized the well-being of the least advantaged from the start. 👍
I love these videos so much. The illustrations make it so easy to understand and fascinating topics are always explored! Well done!!
The illustrations is just color shapes floating around the screen....what's so understanding in that
@@rajeshkumar-ws7bx I'm a visual person. It does help.
And the shapes are supposed to represent all the different types of people in the world
I like the unique artstyle. I admire the brilliance it takes to give those shapes the meanings they have
cool shapes
2:40 so ultimately there are still offices and the majority is still the rule even if it's wrong. That's how your utopia ends.
Great video, and the animation is also remarkable
This in combination with my world history class made me think of something interesting. We might be as far from the peak of idealogical progress as we are from the peak of scientific proogress
4:40 excellent animation
That utopia relies on heavy state control while also being a democracy while also still being capitalist, basically it believes that a utopia can be done today without changing anything of our material conditions and hoping it works by ideas alone and the famously "infinite benevolence of our rulers" this is truly just a thought experiment, and a very unimaginative one at that.
I wouldn't call it unimaginative. Rawls dove pretty heavily into many aspects of this utopia. It's a fun and interesting thought process. It would never work, people are just too greedy, but it's neat to think about nonetheless.
@@jayl5032 Yes he dove into many aspects, but what I meant with "unimaginative" is how he is unable to imagine a world, even a utopia, outside of capitalism and its logic, it truly is easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism
@@ChalkyMuffin969 To his credit its not as though a better option with better real world results exists to be drawn on. Outside of options with real world results it obviously would just be a purely hypothetical thought experiment with no grounding in reality
Well universal basic income works in some states.
Wealth inequality will happen automaticly. And stuff like taxes may allow poorer people too live better lifes.
Limit on campaign spending is easy.
The more vague (fuzzy and convoluted) it is, the harder to argue against it. Anyways, wonder if this originates the whole woke thing, where "victim" groups become "bully" groups while those in power stays in power.
Brilliant storytelling.
Is the whole video just an experiment to check if people can focus when there are colored shapes on the screen?
lmao
beautiful art
Ted is always so captivating with its animations and explainations, loved the vid!
It would be great if you make a video on the little prince
there's only 1 possible way to make a perfect society, the people need to be moral! without morality it's impossible to have a good society.
If we were to be judged for anything in our existence, it's how we treated ourselves and others.
Great thanks for these contents❤
But I've a question why am I not catching the deep meanig surely I have fascination for the videos of ted ed
My utopia would be where everyone helps each other, no need for compensation. Those who have homes shelter the homeless, those who have food share with those hungry, those with knowledge give it freely, those who need help are given help, and people are judged not for what they have, but who they are: kind, soft spoken, confident, intelligent. When a member of this ideal society faces difficulty, everyone else would help them find a solution. Disagreements would be resolved verbally, by understanding each others viewpoints, sympathizing, and cooperating.
Whddya think? Any possible problems?
*Hmm yes, perfect video to watch during dinner*
What’s striking about Rawls’ proposal is the unspoken assumption that social inequality and injustice, rather than resulting from and being maintained by political systems, are instead natural and inevitable.
For instance, he proposes that the architects would provide generous welfare and unemployment benefits to keep anyone from falling through the cracks. But those programs are only necessary because our society ties the ability to get the necessities of life to employment, and uses that as a means to coerce people into doing menial, exhausting, or even dangerous labor. Would a just society recreate such exploitation? Evidently, for Rawls, the answer is yes, despite the fact that this directly contradicts the goal of granting everyone the bare minimum needed to live and pursue their own goals.
It’s like he _wants_ to say “society should be organized on the understanding that everyone will try to provide for others in whatever way they can to the best of their ability, and will be provided for in turn, even if they may need more or less than someone else” but then chickens out cause he doesn’t want to say the C word lol.
While I would agree, I think the issue with that last idea is that it's a bit unrealistic to strive for in the current state of society.
@@Rikri I would counter that if you allow your political horizons and practice to be defined by the ruling ontology, by what is “realistic” within the current system, you’ll never succeed at changing anything.
@@Squalidarity I mean yes, if you had full control over the political system then I'd be on board with that; but that's only really going to happen if a revolution happens I think
Is this animation done with Adobe after effect?
For every like I'll study for 1 hour
20 hours
Ya won’t be studying for long!
Haha
53 hours
PLEASE DO NOT PRESSURE YOURSELF. DO NOT GET MOTIVATED BY THIS. STUDY AS IF IT IS YOU BREATHING NATURALLY. STUDYING ARROGANTLY WILL GET OUR BRAINS TO NOWHERE AND ENJOY EVERY PLANCK OF IT.
My main problem with this thought experiment are the architects
If you do not know anything about yourself what opinions do you have? Arent your opinions you make based on your past experiences? F.e. sexism/racism towards you
And if you remove the past experiences then what is left? What opinion can someone have with no past?
The Animation is outstanding!
But I don't get how is it related to the subject.
@@BachmaiNguyen-INTJ19 Gotcha!
Great video! The simplistic shape artstyle with the light sound effects makes this very entertaining to watch.
You only had 4 minutes to watch this.
With people dozing off on colours and shapes ... people sell fiction and get away with it
@@rajeshkumar-ws7bx Huh?
@My_pfp_beats_all_dog_breeds. I had to stop watching a third of the way in and come back, but I could see the artstyle and hear the sound immediately.
Equal exemptions/funding for housing, food, education, healthcare such that all of those are guaranteed at a basic level. Ambition takes care of the need for people to accomplish things and accumulate more than others or enough for their satisfaction and justice to deal with outliers. Otherwise, all the things we would have had when we were living on the plains and nomadic become equally distributed such that there's no such thing as homelessness, famine, or medical bills and ignorance.
It's an interesting thought, but because of our politicians and some people who really control our democracies, I think it's very difficult for us to come close to this ideology one day. 😢
Here me out... we make a fleet of the ship from Wall-E, enough for everybody and live there. Perfectly equal society. Or and this is probably more realistic, we end the practice of trickle down economics, apply rubber banding to wealth, close all tax loopholes, and end the normalising of workarounds with insanely high fines that divide wealth of the fraudsters to a high fraction if they try to cheat the system.
Wow, this video really got me thinking about what a utopian society would be like! I love exploring thought-provoking topics like this on my channel too. Maybe I should make a video sharing my vision of a perfect world and invite my viewers to join the discussion!
Yeah this sounds good in theory, but what about in practice
Hundreds of millions have died in pursuit of utopia.
I would highly recommend picking up Theory of justice. Rawls goes into a lot more detail about pragmatic aspects of his theory. His theory came out of his experiences in WW2 in japan so I think he takes into account human nature a lot more than most other political philosophers
It practice it deviates from standard capitalism just enough, that the CIA orchestrates a coup in the offending nation
@@oscarcorona3857 I dont believe in anything as "human nature" humans behave badly in our society because we live in a terrible system that made them act like that. In most isolate societies, collaboration and empathy are the standard
if i had to design a society i would panic and dump us into the maze runner series
Amazing!
His proposition solves nothing as it stills relies on government as we know it to be benevolent, but we all know far to well what happens when power accumulates in one entity
I think not being able to draw from your experiences to at least a small degree would feel a bit impossible for me to comprehend if I’m working with a group of strangers. On the one hand I also don’t want the system created to tip more power into one or more parties hands. I think regardless of how you set up this thought experiment there are things that our current system denies us that should be considered human rights.
For example my utopia would include:
Universal human rights/anti discrimination policy
Free healthcare
Accessibility for physically and mentally disabled
Free Education both basic and higher
Non negotiable free housing, food and water
Walkable cities
People should come over profit period, you’re not a bad person for wanting more than your basic needs. assuming you’re not wanting to commit murder or hurt other people for what you want.
Real story, I actually heard about John Rawl's work through a mobile gacha game called Girl's Frontline. Near the end of the first act of the story the game just throughs a quote on screen: "The only thing that permits us to acquiesce in an erroneous theory is the lack of a better one; analogously, an injustice is tolerable only when it is necessary to avoid an even greater injustice. Being first virtues of human activities, truth and justice are uncompromising." While the characters discuss how to move forward to try and save as many lives as they can while still accomplishing their larger goal of ending the current war. This is (one of the reasons) why video games are art, even mobile games
No one cares
@@MaekarManastorm Then why did you care enough to reply?
Every fiction narrative, either in games, novels, movies, comics, etc. portrays certain values that could change our worldview. That's why some called it the contestation of ideas. It is up to us to filter out certain values that might not align with reality.
@@okiahmadzulkifli2213 I don’t think “filtering out” disagreeable ideas is practical. We should at least acknowledge they exist so we can address them and explain to ourselves and others why they’re wrong
Rawls dismissed certain solutions as being based on unrealistic expectations but then sets up an entire thought experiment based on the unrealistic expectations of people not knowing their own history or background.
To be fair, some of the ideals are easier to strive towards than those proposed by something like Marxism, which I would imagine was what he meant.
I think Rawls was aware that our own self-interests heavily skews what we see as "just" or fair, and his entire theory was meant to make us conscious of this often unconscious bias. We are meant to imagine what we would believe if we weren't aware of our individual circumstances, and justify those beliefs with rational arguments based on the premise of our ignorance.
Democracy devolves into majority rule, need a centralized authority to protect any of these rules/rights.
EXACTLY
God i love love love the animation!
I love the animation
Hmm, pretty vague
That's the point: the vaguer it is, the more difficult it is to argue against it.
I mean to me it's just social democracy, nothing really new in his theory
Its a five minutes video. Are you really complaining that it is vague? Go read the book then
@@antoniomonaco4582 k
Why does it need to be framed as the natural solution theoretically unbiased people would come to?
It’s just his opinion on how he thinks society should be organised. Making assumptions about the behaviour of “unbiased people” is impossible as any real person is thinking from a biased perspective.
Well I think the point is he’s trying to look at it if he had no bias.
Limits on governemental power and corporate power. That's all, really. The democratic market system can do pretty good if it's not bogged down by a million arbitrary gov/company rules and their simultaneous strangle hold on the economy.
The politicians and business men: we don’t do that here
I don't think a fair society could ever be achieved. One can only get closer to fairness by attempting to be fair, but the gravity of reality will always weigh us down.
He's trying to merge 2 opposing concepts.
He wants individual will, but at the same time he wants everyone to agree to the same system.
This can be done but it requires a system where you raise the next generation to conform to the same system.
So their individual will is in agreement with everyone else's.
Yea, that's why Nozick comes into the picture and says: The welfare state cannot dictate what I want to do with my life -- it cannot tax me for the sake of the poor.
@@mashupotato_ People like Nozick are the ones raised with narcissistic & self serving desires.
Their actions hurt communities.
The most successful communities are the ones that cooperate to survive.
If Nozick was raised with good moral values, he would willingly help the poor without being forced to.
Your videos truly helpful ❤
It’d be great if something at least close to this could happen, but that’s not gonna happen. We at least start though, in which I’ll say: why don’t we decrease some of those profoundly high and needless budgets, and also let’s make our country look as good as Europe’s countries so we can look at beautiful things when we go outside.
(I won’t lie, that’s actually a big leap for today’s U.S, so perhaps something a bit easier to change, like better political leaders)
The perfect society is where I am at the top and command absolute power through fear
the problem is that there is no material way to implement histoughts, it is idealism
Absolutely, he didn't want to account our different personal interest in his vision of a just society he didn't want an unbiased view of justice instead he didn't want to acknowledge his own
I haven't the knowledge or wisdom to create a functional society, let alone a perfect one. I just want a society where reason and compassion are the norm rather than the exception. I just want a world where it's not "woke" to have a heart, and it's not weird and unsexy to use your brain. I think such a society would sort itself out.
Pioneering thought-experiment.
Change DOESN'T come JUST only from talking But from ACTION as well .
♑️✍️🇳🇴🇦🇺
Probably the best theory of social fairness I've heard. I would argue for a welfare system that meets basic human needs at the bottom, but with no cap on income at the top. I would justify this with a progressive income tax system that taxed higher income people more and then used that tax revenue to finance the welfare system. According to Rawls increased wealth at the top is justifiable only if it benefits those at the bottom in some way, and that's exactly what a progressive income tax does.
Please make the video "The rise and fall of the British Empire" please. 🇬🇧
I imagine myself as the only human left.
Perfect society
Does this have any applications? I sure think so but not one size fits all
No humans.
Just one intelligence, one entity, one being, one god.
Hey TED-ED, I thought you might like to know that whenever the narrator says "watch THIS video", the video card doesn't show up on the screen the way it used to. Why is that?
A colony which gave up on past color, creed, boundary, existing hierarchy, to plunge into void to spread this colony
Good😊
What a coincidence! I was just thinking about this...
This type of thought experiment was in a way shown in novels like 1984.
This might be my favourite tedEd video now, the visuals??? The sounds?? The way everything's is explained?? It's just so clever!!
The visuals and sfx feels like they belong in a video game!
(Profound statement)
Gee, I just hope people would do this thing. And if they do, then, little by little, we'll have an actual utopian world.
This is my critique of the idea:
There is a drastic intrinsic inequality in human competence when it comes to elite fields like science. Giving the best people disproportionate resources seems to work! That's how we got to the moon.
But because no private entity is allowed to be very rich under this society, only the government would be able to fund science. So we may still have a moon landing, but companies like TSMC and SpaceX simply would not exist in this world.
Then you can insert any of the valid critiques of government-managed science (such as voters being short-sighted) and you end up with a system that is not maximally conducive to long-term innovation. And here's the kicker: due to exponential economic growth, at a long enough timespan innovation is realistically the only thing that matters for prosperity, since it far outstrips other factors like inequality. (This is unless growth plateaus, but we're centuries from that.) So it's likely that this government system will fall behind the living standards of some other system which allows private innovation, for everyone in the society, within a few hundred years.
I can only think of two ways around this issue. The first is that you solve the issues with government-managed science. This would require you to make a government that is not fully democratic, in order to prioritize long-term science over other spending even if most voters are against it. The second is that you change how corporations work so that you allow them to get very wealthy - enough to fund scientific endeavors - but somehow disallow the wealth to be spent on individualistic pursuits. This is basically reinventing capitalism and requires a very high standard on transparency which is probably only possible with futuristic technology that, with one wrong turn, could be used to spy on everyone. Both of these fixes don't seem very realistic or ideal.
Nice motion graphics, yo!
Thanks for useful infos!!
Just hold a giant cookout once a week and everyone will come together, nosh on darn good food, have a couple laughs, and leave full and happy.
I mean utopia is impossible even the etymology of the very word says that but if it existed it needs a balance of altruism and independence
The visuals are really cool, but quite distracting. I imagine the designer intended to use basic shapes and colors to abstractly tell the story, but this video could have benefitted from a more literal approach in some instances such as definitions of key points and illustrations of concepts to better visualize the information.
Mono culture and way of living is the only way honestly. When everyone is the same with the same goals, no one will oppose it and try to change and cause problems.
You cant mix people who want to do X their way with people who want to do Y the completely opposite way and expect there to not be conflict
We are all different and I wouldn't want to be the same as the next person. It would be a very boring world. Where no one could have ideas or use their imagination. A Stepford world.
@@OneWayTicketToTheMoon thats what it takes to have a utopia tho
I think the veil of ignorance is a nice idea for a thought experiment, but I don't think it accounts for the entire situation.
For example, most of what people guess about my disabilities is wrong. The things they think would be helpful, what they imagine my experience to be like, etc.
So why, under the veil of ignorance, would they be any better at it? It isn't as if they'd have more information, just ignorance of their own body state.
Better to allow the society to evolve on its own. If you try to "design" a society, disasters are bound to happen.
A place where you don't know the people's age and gender seems like a disaster. How many elementary schools should we build? How many colleges? How many nursing homes? How do people reproduce if they don't know their parners age and gender XD?
From an economic perspective this theory is pure insanity.
People often ask "would you rather be a king in the past or a regular modern guy", Rawls' veil of ignorance ask "you sure you wont just be one of the many slaves in the past?" advocating a more fair society
And he fails to consider many imbeciles today on far right would be happily enslaved if that meant these damn commies (read - everyone normal) were enslaved too, mind boggling...
if this utopia depends on government regulation, how are we to expect that government officials will appropriately distribute wealth and opportunity? and how will we evaluate worthiness of wealth?
Top kek!
Just came here to appreciate the animations! The animator deserves a pay rise imo!!!
he probably already has a great salary I hope.
That is not Martha Nussbaum. It is Amartya Sen. Martha Nussbaum carried Sen’s idea frwrd to include gender justice.
I don't know what I heard, but all I saw were shapes dancing around the entire screen
In notification the title of this video was "3 easy steps to build a real utopia"
what are those 3 steps?
what shape are we
I have to ask what is fair about a society where one can have a private airport and plane (John Travolta) and others can not afford to eat.
I would not, and would actively resist any attempt to try. Every utopia is someone's dystopia, and frankly any utopia that would appeal to any large number of people would alienate as many. Worse, sooner or later even the designer figures out that his own vision of perfection is alienating even to him, should he live long enough. Plus, and given that usually somewhat balanced reality between proponents and opponents of any utopian vision, it raises the stakes so unspeakably high as to both necessitate and justify all out war to advance or resist the cause.
The liberal democratic model of endless incremental dispute, occasional changes of direction, and sometimes change of something long established, including the dreams of the past generation, is better. Forever. Pity its on its last legs.
Maybe just watch the video?
Nice
Sounds remarkably similar at points to Georgism