Thank you for this video! I have a question though: I compared some TV ads, and while they all read out at -23 LUFS, some still sounded louder than others (for example the voice over was much more 'present'). Are there any tricks to increase the perceived loudness while still conforming to the EBU R128 requirements?
Hi, thanks for your question. Yes, the system is not perfect and can be fooled a little in some ways :) In my experience it is a combination of a number of factors, it’s perhaps a little too much to put in a comment, but email me at gijs@audiokickstart.com if you want to discuss this!
Hi Gijs! First of all, thanks for this tutorial! You explained everything very well and it was easy to follow. However, there is still a question that remains for me: Let's say I have mixed a little radio ad WITHOUT checking the EBU R128 meters and the mix sounds fine but of course, the Loudness level is still way too high. Is it really the best way to bring up the EBU meters just now after I'm done editing/mixing the whole thing more or less by ear and correct the Loudness by decreasing the volume of the complete mixdown? Also, after successfully bringing it down to at -23LUFS max the overall volume level is at around -10dB. This isn't an issue, right? What if the radio station gets several mixes way louder than -10dB and then here I am with my ad of -10. Do they bring every ad to a the same volume level or doesn't it even make a difference because the only thing "noticeable" to the human ear is the Loudness level?
Hi Stephan, thanks for your kind words! To answer your first question: the most important thing is that it sounds good :) Setting the level afterwards is no problem in that regard, as long as it sounds good. Of course, if you keep an eye on the EBU meter while mixing, you will probably set your monitor volume higher in the first place and you won't have to change the master level much in the end. If you use brick wall limiting or compression on your master fader, it may make a difference though. If you *want* the sound of that limiter/compressor, that's great. Just turn down the level in the end. But if you use it only to make your mix sound louder, you may want to try to mix without the limiter and see how your mix sounds in the end. The nice thing with R128 is that you have the freedom to use the available dynamic range. Small side note: here in the Netherlands radio stations use very heavy sound processing to make their station sound bigger, brighter and louder compared to other stations. And to create 'their own sound'. So if you made a very dynamic mix, it will sound completely 'flat' on the radio no matter what you do. :) So again, the most important thing is that your mix sounds great and everything in your mix has it's own place in the stereo image. Make a '3D' mix, where the voice-over sounds close and up front and the music sounds as if it is just behind the voice-over. Your second question: if the radio station wants you to deliver your mix in R128, it's no problem that the peak level is at -10 dB. As you said yourself, the thing with R128 is that it already *is* at the same level to the ear. And that's what matters, that is what R128 tries to measure. Peak levels don't say much about how loud something sounds.
@@AudioKickstartcom Hi Gijs! Actually, I've already written a reply days ago but it seems it somehow didn't get through. So, once again: thanks a ton for your detailed explanation and your help! I think I really understand it now. I kinda like the sound of the compressor; at least when it's not over-used. I think I will stay with using it but I guess I will stay play around and see how it sounds without. Also, what pity most radio stations in the Netherlands have their own mix and they just use it on top of every mix they get. You spent so much time editing/mixing and then they just get rid of it 😄 I am not sure how our radio stations in Germany do it though... it could be the same case here. I guess I will just make sure to include the correct EBU levels nevertheless and send them the proper mix in the first place 🙂
When I test this, there doesn't seem to be a difference. But I don't know what the 'default' settings are in the Youlean meter, just to be sure I always select R128 anyway :)
This channel is a jem..i do my mix and mastering in a seperate cubase project ..then i render it to wave 48k 24 bit..adobe audition has nice lufs plugin for adjust the loudness ..is it okay to use that rendered wave file imported to audition daw and do the lufs adjustment there and render again..will i loss some thing in my track as i render two times in two daws..🤔🤔
In theory, yes you will lose something when reimporting, adjusting the volume and bouncing to disk again, even if you keep the sample rate and bit rate the same. But I wonder how many people would actually hear this in a blind test if you re-convert only once, my guess is not so many :) But Cubase does have some nice ways of lufs measuring itself if I’m not mistaken, and you could also use the Youlean plugin in Cubase so you don’t have to switch to Audition just for that final step.
Hey, great video! I've run into a problem - the technical requirements for a commercial that I need to abide by say that I need 4 audio channels, first one being stereo left, second one being stereo right, and the rest are duplicates of the first 2. Do you have any idea what is that for? Also, when I do that, I gain extra 3dB to the lufs. If I have a stereo recording, should I even bother with splitting the audio in 2 mono channels? I'm just really confused whether I should do the metering before, while I have the stereo track in one piece, or after, when I have 2 channels of the same stereo signal split into stereo left and stereo right. I hope that you've run into this, and can help me out. Thanks!
Hi and thanks! :) I think the first thing to check with the station is what they need those multiple channels for. I’ve only come across this when there are multiple ‘ingredients’ to be delivered, so let’s say channel 1 and 2 contain the full mix left and right and channel 3 and 4 contain the music & effects. Those extra channels can be used for remixes, localizations, etc. If that is the case, you need to make sure that your final mix that is going to be aired is at -23 lufs, so that would be channel 1 + 2 (as a stereo pair). I assume this is also true in this case, but it’s best to check with them before uploading.
Thank you for tutorial. But I find the title a bit misleading, being a producer for many years, isn't this just called mastering for TV/Film? I mean, basically you just adjusted the overall track volume to be around -23lufs, and to not exceed the peak, which is great, I was looking for that info. But as far as the mix goes, you didn't adjust the mix at all, or am I missing something. Fact is, I've never mixed/mastered specifically for TV or Film, just now getting into it. I had one track placed via publisher somewhere, and it wasn't even adjusted to those levels by me, it was released for streaming. Nowadays (2022) the standard for streaming is around -14 Lufs, but the value usually is higher for released music. Anyway, I'm just wondering if the mix has to be adjusted somehow, or if you have your music finished, you only need to adjust the master so it doesn't exceed -23lufs..? Or is it that you just adjust the overall mix volume, in turn lowering the master, but still putting the mastering chain after. I'm confused a bit.
Hi, Thanks for your comment! I think you are right, this could be more accurately described as mastering, although the process of mixing and mastering is usually something you do in one go when mixing for TV, at least in my experience. I do have a written tutorial about the whole mixing-for-TV process here: www.audiokickstart.com/en/mixing-audio-for-video-the-mixing-process/. Maybe this gives a little more insight, if you have some specific questions you can always send me an email: gijs@audiokickstart.com.
How to maintain the loudness level within the series or advertisement so that it does not exceed this level or is too low Does it have to be done manually or is there a way to maintain the required level? Thanks
Hi! It’s all about the integrated level of the whole ad or show. So if the level is -25 at some point and -20 a little later, it doesn’t matter as long as the integrated value, so the ‘average’ level of the whole show is -23LUFS. But you want the listener to have a pleasant listening experience, of course :) So big and distracting level differences, in dialogue tracks for example, are usually corrected for by hand and/or with the help of compressors/limiters, have a look at this tutorial: th-cam.com/video/bXMU-BCqd7Y/w-d-xo.html Hope that answers your question! :) If not, feel free to email me at gijs@audiokickstart.com.
This is great! Do you have some tips on how to mix and master for TV speakers? Like what could do to get everything as clear as possible. I seem to have the same problem over and over again. The base frequencies are really bad on TV speakers but fine on computers and cellphones. Thought to eliminate everything below 150Hz in a equalizer on the master channel.
Hi and thanks! The problem frequencies on TV speakers are usually around 200 Hz in my experience. If you do something 'wrong' there and boost that area too much, it could sound very boomy and/or bad. :) Although in a TV ad the mid and mid-high frequencies deserve more attention than anything else, boosting a little around 150-160 Hz (and maybe cutting a little in the problem area around 200 hz) may work to get some sense of low-end in your commercial, so cutting off everything below 150 is a bit to much in my opinion. I do usually put a high-pass filter on the master around 75Hz though, to make sure the energy is not wasted on the low-end nobody will hear.
Hello, i hope you Can help me out a bit. I have a mastering project in which the customer wants a master at EBU R138. I have never done this before. How many lufs should i be landing on? Thank you
Thank you very very very much sir for this wonderful video.I was really really sure about -23 LUFS metering.If i want to mix a session in -23 LUFS the true peak will not hit to -1 TP it will hit by -6 or by -10 TP.what i though was correct.I am from india and i have see some stupid audio engineers who have no knowledge about the sound and they have become sound engineers and giving me wrong information.But this video make my day.Can u please make a video for 5.1 7.1 and Dolby atoms.
Fantastic video! I keep coming back when I have a TV delivery. Thanks so much!
So nice to hear, thanks! :)
Haha Gijs wat goed! Ik kom per toeval bij deze video uit en herken je uit onze tijd bij 3FM. Tof om te zien wat je doet met AudioKickstart!
Bedankt bro!! Great tutorial 🙏🙏
Very clear!! Thanks!!
A REALLY GOOD VIDEO ¡ thank you
Thanks!!
Excelente contenido y explicado de manera muy sencilla y concisa. Felicidades!!
I've a gut feeling that your channel will grow faster that F1.
Great info man!!!
Keep coming...
Thanks man! :)
Your video saved my ass big time, thanks a lot!
Thank you
Thanks, zeer handig!
Top, thanks! :)
Thank you for this video! I have a question though: I compared some TV ads, and while they all read out at -23 LUFS, some still sounded louder than others (for example the voice over was much more 'present'). Are there any tricks to increase the perceived loudness while still conforming to the EBU R128 requirements?
Hi, thanks for your question. Yes, the system is not perfect and can be fooled a little in some ways :) In my experience it is a combination of a number of factors, it’s perhaps a little too much to put in a comment, but email me at gijs@audiokickstart.com if you want to discuss this!
Hi Gijs! First of all, thanks for this tutorial! You explained everything very well and it was easy to follow. However, there is still a question that remains for me:
Let's say I have mixed a little radio ad WITHOUT checking the EBU R128 meters and the mix sounds fine but of course, the Loudness level is still way too high. Is it really the best way to bring up the EBU meters just now after I'm done editing/mixing the whole thing more or less by ear and correct the Loudness by decreasing the volume of the complete mixdown?
Also, after successfully bringing it down to at -23LUFS max the overall volume level is at around -10dB. This isn't an issue, right? What if the radio station gets several mixes way louder than -10dB and then here I am with my ad of -10. Do they bring every ad to a the same volume level or doesn't it even make a difference because the only thing "noticeable" to the human ear is the Loudness level?
Hi Stephan, thanks for your kind words! To answer your first question: the most important thing is that it sounds good :) Setting the level afterwards is no problem in that regard, as long as it sounds good. Of course, if you keep an eye on the EBU meter while mixing, you will probably set your monitor volume higher in the first place and you won't have to change the master level much in the end. If you use brick wall limiting or compression on your master fader, it may make a difference though. If you *want* the sound of that limiter/compressor, that's great. Just turn down the level in the end. But if you use it only to make your mix sound louder, you may want to try to mix without the limiter and see how your mix sounds in the end. The nice thing with R128 is that you have the freedom to use the available dynamic range.
Small side note: here in the Netherlands radio stations use very heavy sound processing to make their station sound bigger, brighter and louder compared to other stations. And to create 'their own sound'. So if you made a very dynamic mix, it will sound completely 'flat' on the radio no matter what you do. :) So again, the most important thing is that your mix sounds great and everything in your mix has it's own place in the stereo image. Make a '3D' mix, where the voice-over sounds close and up front and the music sounds as if it is just behind the voice-over.
Your second question: if the radio station wants you to deliver your mix in R128, it's no problem that the peak level is at -10 dB. As you said yourself, the thing with R128 is that it already *is* at the same level to the ear. And that's what matters, that is what R128 tries to measure. Peak levels don't say much about how loud something sounds.
@@AudioKickstartcom Hi Gijs! Actually, I've already written a reply days ago but it seems it somehow didn't get through.
So, once again: thanks a ton for your detailed explanation and your help! I think I really understand it now. I kinda like the sound of the compressor; at least when it's not over-used. I think I will stay with using it but I guess I will stay play around and see how it sounds without.
Also, what pity most radio stations in the Netherlands have their own mix and they just use it on top of every mix they get. You spent so much time editing/mixing and then they just get rid of it 😄 I am not sure how our radio stations in Germany do it though... it could be the same case here. I guess I will just make sure to include the correct EBU levels nevertheless and send them the proper mix in the first place 🙂
Yeah, a good mix will translate to every system! 😄👍🏻
is the LUFSi reading on the Youlean meter any different from the LUFSi reading if you don't select the R128 preset?
When I test this, there doesn't seem to be a difference. But I don't know what the 'default' settings are in the Youlean meter, just to be sure I always select R128 anyway :)
This channel is a jem..i do my mix and mastering in a seperate cubase project ..then i render it to wave 48k 24 bit..adobe audition has nice lufs plugin for adjust the loudness ..is it okay to use that rendered wave file imported to audition daw and do the lufs adjustment there and render again..will i loss some thing in my track as i render two times in two daws..🤔🤔
In theory, yes you will lose something when reimporting, adjusting the volume and bouncing to disk again, even if you keep the sample rate and bit rate the same. But I wonder how many people would actually hear this in a blind test if you re-convert only once, my guess is not so many :)
But Cubase does have some nice ways of lufs measuring itself if I’m not mistaken, and you could also use the Youlean plugin in Cubase so you don’t have to switch to Audition just for that final step.
@@AudioKickstartcom thanks for the early reply i will try...
Hey, great video!
I've run into a problem - the technical requirements for a commercial that I need to abide by say that I need 4 audio channels, first one being stereo left, second one being stereo right, and the rest are duplicates of the first 2. Do you have any idea what is that for? Also, when I do that, I gain extra 3dB to the lufs. If I have a stereo recording, should I even bother with splitting the audio in 2 mono channels? I'm just really confused whether I should do the metering before, while I have the stereo track in one piece, or after, when I have 2 channels of the same stereo signal split into stereo left and stereo right.
I hope that you've run into this, and can help me out.
Thanks!
Hi and thanks! :)
I think the first thing to check with the station is what they need those multiple channels for. I’ve only come across this when there are multiple ‘ingredients’ to be delivered, so let’s say channel 1 and 2 contain the full mix left and right and channel 3 and 4 contain the music & effects. Those extra channels can be used for remixes, localizations, etc. If that is the case, you need to make sure that your final mix that is going to be aired is at -23 lufs, so that would be channel 1 + 2 (as a stereo pair).
I assume this is also true in this case, but it’s best to check with them before uploading.
Thank you for tutorial. But I find the title a bit misleading, being a producer for many years, isn't this just called mastering for TV/Film? I mean, basically you just adjusted the overall track volume to be around -23lufs, and to not exceed the peak, which is great, I was looking for that info. But as far as the mix goes, you didn't adjust the mix at all, or am I missing something. Fact is, I've never mixed/mastered specifically for TV or Film, just now getting into it. I had one track placed via publisher somewhere, and it wasn't even adjusted to those levels by me, it was released for streaming. Nowadays (2022) the standard for streaming is around -14 Lufs, but the value usually is higher for released music. Anyway, I'm just wondering if the mix has to be adjusted somehow, or if you have your music finished, you only need to adjust the master so it doesn't exceed -23lufs..? Or is it that you just adjust the overall mix volume, in turn lowering the master, but still putting the mastering chain after. I'm confused a bit.
Hi,
Thanks for your comment! I think you are right, this could be more accurately described as mastering, although the process of mixing and mastering is usually something you do in one go when mixing for TV, at least in my experience. I do have a written tutorial about the whole mixing-for-TV process here: www.audiokickstart.com/en/mixing-audio-for-video-the-mixing-process/. Maybe this gives a little more insight, if you have some specific questions you can always send me an email: gijs@audiokickstart.com.
How to maintain the loudness level within the series or advertisement so that it does not exceed this level or is too low
Does it have to be done manually or is there a way to maintain the required level?
Thanks
Hi! It’s all about the integrated level of the whole ad or show. So if the level is -25 at some point and -20 a little later, it doesn’t matter as long as the integrated value, so the ‘average’ level of the whole show is -23LUFS.
But you want the listener to have a pleasant listening experience, of course :) So big and distracting level differences, in dialogue tracks for example, are usually corrected for by hand and/or with the help of compressors/limiters, have a look at this tutorial: th-cam.com/video/bXMU-BCqd7Y/w-d-xo.html
Hope that answers your question! :) If not, feel free to email me at gijs@audiokickstart.com.
good job thx
This is great! Do you have some tips on how to mix and master for TV speakers? Like what could do to get everything as clear as possible. I seem to have the same problem over and over again. The base frequencies are really bad on TV speakers but fine on computers and cellphones. Thought to eliminate everything below 150Hz in a equalizer on the master channel.
Hi and thanks! The problem frequencies on TV speakers are usually around 200 Hz in my experience. If you do something 'wrong' there and boost that area too much, it could sound very boomy and/or bad. :) Although in a TV ad the mid and mid-high frequencies deserve more attention than anything else, boosting a little around 150-160 Hz (and maybe cutting a little in the problem area around 200 hz) may work to get some sense of low-end in your commercial, so cutting off everything below 150 is a bit to much in my opinion. I do usually put a high-pass filter on the master around 75Hz though, to make sure the energy is not wasted on the low-end nobody will hear.
@@AudioKickstartcom Great thanks, I'll try that for sure!
Would you then bring the final mix up to -1dbfs?
No, you just leave it at -23 LUFS...If you change the level to -1dBFS the station will probably reject it. :)
Hello, i hope you Can help me out a bit. I have a mastering project in which the customer wants a master at EBU R138. I have never done this before. How many lufs should i be landing on? Thank you
Hi! I'm sorry, I have not encountered R138 before, can't help you with that I'm afraid!
@@AudioKickstartcom no worries, they just made a typing error when i Said i had not heard of R138, thank you anyways for a nice video!
Thank you very very very much sir for this wonderful video.I was really really sure about -23 LUFS metering.If i want to mix a session in -23 LUFS the true peak will not hit to -1 TP it will hit by -6 or by -10 TP.what i though was correct.I am from india and i have see some stupid audio engineers who have no knowledge about the sound and they have become sound engineers and giving me wrong information.But this video make my day.Can u please make a video for 5.1 7.1 and Dolby atoms.
Thanks for your kind words! :)
Great video, if you Gijs can check your email will really appreciate it...have a question
Thank you