Thanks for this video.From now on, I will always post a link to this video, when someone critizises EVs “because they create so much waste due to old batteries” and are therefore bad.
So, the process is not as eco friendly as it says it is because it has to deal with the chemicals it creates in its process. Interesting! There is a company that has patented a process that does not have this problem.
That is great and all, but how sustainable is this really? How fast can they recycle batteries? How much does it cost? How much waste is produced when recycling? Do they use chemicals and materials that have their own environmental concerns? And is there a hidden cost or legal overhead that is not mentioned that may make this unattractive to other companies? A lot of time the terms green or sustainable are thrown arround for promotional purposes but those words legally have no definition, which means they dont have a legal obligation to do what we assume they are doing. Never take the words of green or sustainable companies at face value. Because it took a while for people to get caught on the electric car controversy. This recycling process may have it's own controversy tied to it. Because many green solutions are far from green. They just swap the environmental problem for another one.
@@reconx86 Did you watch the video? What about "96% of the materials are recycled" did you not understand? If more batteries need to be recycled, they scale the process up. The recycling does not only cost money, it brings in money as well from the raw materials. Why would there be a "hidden cost or legal overhead"? Why are you looking for reasons to badmouth a pretty cool solution? What Lithium controversy? If you use a mobile device with a recharable battery, you are part of it. You know what is far from green: oil production...
Depends on how many recycling companies use this method. If there is only one facility in Brunswick, Germany, then it’s not a very good system. Edit: North America doesn’t even have their own facility. There’s talks of one being built in New York state, but construction hasn’t broken ground yet. Is it true that production of EVs and hybrid vehicles produce a large carbon footprint during manufacturing because parts are made all over the world? I believe BBC Top Gear mentioned this about the Toyota Prius.
@@phildurre9492 the hydrometallurgy process is the really important part that reclaims the expensive metals that actually makes the batteries work. That process is not simple...
EXCELLENT. Thanks for sharing this. I hope this technology spreads. And thank you Germany, for still being champions of innovation, research, and development!
@Xp Reflex That is not the problem. This company is responsible for no secondhand EV battery packs are available in central Europe! They make deals with salvagers, and collect everything. There is no Environmental benefit to that. A battery in a home installation is more energy efficient than gray powder in a drum. The problem with a million mile battery, is that it will be a long time before worn and derated packs become available, so unless Tesla drivers are worse than average, Elon is not the solution to OP's problem. This company is destroying perfectly good batteries, for pennies of profit!! I think we should organise a protest around the plant: "Battery life matters"
The shredders are powered from the batteries, but after the usable capacity is used up, are they further depleted for safer shredding? If so, how is this done and how deeply are they discharged?
before the battery pack is opened and disassembled, is there a discharging process first? if yes, what method do you use? with electronic load discharge, salt solution, or something else?
Because they waist good cells and shread them. Lithium works well for years. After vehicles cells can be used in many applications and do not need to be scrapped.
That's awesome! There is an idea to legislate companies' responsible use of batteries. As we all know that the harvesting of Lithium and many other battery metals) is detrimental to certain Earth regions. I remember Argentina or chili on the list of the most affected countries. Perhaps the future solutions would be as follows: companies would accumulate enough "batteries" that would allow producers to rely on their recycling programs. The idea is that once the electric-vehicle company possesses 100% batteries to support their production, it will no longer be allowed to purchase new cell materials. That will allow precious metals to remain at a high price and redirect technology into a scientific way. Besides, Solar energy could be enough to power this particular recycling plant. I am not incentivizing to refuse the use of fossil fuels. They ought to be used to produce high-grade plastics or unique substances that would allow maintaining oil prices. That would allow some countries to continue to harvest, with better resources and in a better way. As future leaders, we should at least demonstrate our voice.! Thank you for reading my thoughts. Best in 2021!
Since we are wishing. I'm wishing that the battery life is extended by several times. The recycling is not cost effective yet. But I'm suspecting that the process will be improved over time.
@@Drehmoment-dk I hope a govt incentive or tax rebate is wrkd out to move it towards profitability which must apply new cars using batteries made of recycled batteries.
Most of it is plastic from the separator foil and from the carrier material of the anode and cathode. The normal way is thermal recovery. Which basically means: it burns. Not the best way, but better than thermal recovery of the whole battery which is done by most recycling companies today.
So, the process is not as eco friendly as it says it is because it has to deal with the chemicals it creates in its process. Interesting! There is a company that has patented a process that does not have this problem.
So far, thermal recycling is mostly used. The battery is burned or melted down. Unfortunately, a number of raw materials are lost in the process. The rest is then separated and recycled
@timemachine194 Why is nobody reporting that in the real world ? People have already replaced barrery once or twice in a 10 year period. Manufacturers make lots of claims that never pan out under real world use. There just claims and of course they are never going to say anything but good about there product no matter how crappy it is just ask GM.
@timemachine194 I have looked at all the numbers. Numbers dont lie people do. Put all costs of a Toyota Corolla up against all costs of a base model Tesla. Numbers dont lie ! Green my ass most electric power comes from coal fired plants. Your EV science will end just like the last 2 times when the American public see the true cost !
Are they recycling bad batteries or even goods ones get shreded? you talk about tested batteries at the end of the video... That is what i ask myself after watching the fully charged video...
market decides as always with scrappers and salvagers. If your car is in an accident and the system reports potential damage to the battery (happened with mine) they're going to take out that battery and recycle it. There's nothing else they can do so they'll take whatever price they can get from a recycling company. Now if a branch falls on top of an electric car and the battery is completely safe well yes they could sell it to a recycler still. But chances are they'll get more money selling it as a useable battery to another Ev owner for their car, maybe a company who wants to use them in grid storage installations etc.
Re-using old EV battery packs is already happening on a large scale. There is a large sports stadium in Utrecht in Holland, powered by 200 old Nissan Leaf batteries, charged via solar. And there is a large windfarm in Wales, in the UK, which uses around 250 ex BMW i3 batteries to store energy.....
@@protennis365 already happening , I’d imagine. So governments have to act fast. It’s one of the many reasons why the switch to electric hasn’t really taken off.
@@protennis365 True. Also, those who do are lobbied secretly by coal gas and oil interests to stymie the uptake of ev’s because their incomes will be drastically reduced. Human nature, but it’s flawed thinking. They should invest in ev technology because it’s on the verge of becoming very very competitive.
Great vid! Just checked their website and the 96% recovery rate isn't mentioned anywhere on their website though, there they talk about 85% efficiency...(??) Anyone any thoughts on this? JB Straubel (from Tesla) once mentioned a possible 94% recovery rate, I would be greatly impressed if they actually achieved any where near 96%.
"Cameras are strictly off limits within the hallowed production hall." Why? They don't want to share their recycling techniques? Greed will most likely be the undoing of our species.
You are right, industry scale is still far away. The end of life batteries in large numbers are missing. This is a trial facility. But an important start into the recycling circle.
Stupid waste of good batteries. Even if they maybe are not good for cars anymore they are for sure good as a power bank at homes. This is not environmentally smart.
@@Drehmoment-dk how is that possible?? The video shows a car battery ! Power banks have not been in the market long enough. Our Tesla cars 6 years old have 270.000 km so far and only lost 1% per year. A power bank losses much less capacity. So maybe after 30 - 50 years you need to recycle those.
You are right. The large number of batteries is still missing. Most of the used cells come from prototype or crashed cars. But the general idea is that batteries have a second life in stationary use before they are recyceled. By the way: Volkswagen just started a test facility with the same recycling method.
@@Alrukitaf It was not a prototype being destroyed in the video, but a pack from a BMW I3, a vehicle very much in production which has one of the industry's most advanced Samsung cells. 20.9 years average lifespan until 80% capacity remains. And they just throw them in the shredder!!
@@Tore_Lund It could be fucking broken or defective. Holy shit, people like you have to find negative things in everything instead of finding solutions.
So, the process is not as eco friendly as it says it is because it has to deal with the chemicals it creates in its process. Interesting! There is a company that has patented a process that does not have this problem.
What do you imagine you are going to get out of recycling batteries, if not chemicals? All stuff - all physical substances - are chemicals. The chemicals from this recycling process will be the inputs to new manufacturing.
My father still has his first car. a car that his father used before him :) its made in the 1948 it has a engine rebuild and a repaint. my car its made in 2004 its "stock" . when talking about pollution and CO2 cost, why don't we talk about the life expectancy of the product? The electric car that come to the scrapyard has what? 4-7 years? The energy/pollution cost are sure greater.... I think cars. like homes are super expensive in that way, and must be made to last more. or be heavily taxed
The car your father has pollutes 20 times more than a modern car. In Europe, you can't circulate with such a vehicle anyway. Your argument is pointless.
@timemachine194 :)) Jesus, what a rant. thing about this=> how much excavation is need it to make a battery, what is the CO2 cost for that, and from what is the electricity made from :) You will also find there are literally TONS of diesels that run more de one millions km. :) and much more gas power cars... The future is for sure electric. but is not yet here. I will run my gas cars till they die (fact they are legal to run in every EU state or city, including London. :) ) See you at the summer maraton :))
Thanks for this video.From now on, I will always post a link to this video, when someone critizises EVs “because they create so much waste due to old batteries” and are therefore bad.
So, the process is not as eco friendly as it says it is because it has to deal with the chemicals it creates in its process. Interesting! There is a company that has patented a process that does not have this problem.
That is great and all, but how sustainable is this really?
How fast can they recycle batteries?
How much does it cost?
How much waste is produced when recycling?
Do they use chemicals and materials that have their own environmental concerns?
And is there a hidden cost or legal overhead that is not mentioned that may make this unattractive to other companies?
A lot of time the terms green or sustainable are thrown arround for promotional purposes but those words legally have no definition, which means they dont have a legal obligation to do what we assume they are doing. Never take the words of green or sustainable companies at face value. Because it took a while for people to get caught on the electric car controversy. This recycling process may have it's own controversy tied to it. Because many green solutions are far from green. They just swap the environmental problem for another one.
@@reconx86 Did you watch the video? What about "96% of the materials are recycled" did you not understand? If more batteries need to be recycled, they scale the process up. The recycling does not only cost money, it brings in money as well from the raw materials. Why would there be a "hidden cost or legal overhead"? Why are you looking for reasons to badmouth a pretty cool solution?
What Lithium controversy? If you use a mobile device with a recharable battery, you are part of it.
You know what is far from green: oil production...
@@reconx86 I agree. If cost of recycling exceeds the cost of mining, nobody will recycle.
Depends on how many recycling companies use this method. If there is only one facility in Brunswick, Germany, then it’s not a very good system.
Edit: North America doesn’t even have their own facility. There’s talks of one being built in New York state, but construction hasn’t broken ground yet.
Is it true that production of EVs and hybrid vehicles produce a large carbon footprint during manufacturing because parts are made all over the world? I believe BBC Top Gear mentioned this about the Toyota Prius.
I had no idea the recycling was so advanced. Thank you for this video this is great.
its is not, they get schredded and burned. atleast in practise.
@@phildurre9492 the hydrometallurgy process is the really important part that reclaims the expensive metals that actually makes the batteries work. That process is not simple...
Only in Germany. In the US we are 10 years behind
EXCELLENT. Thanks for sharing this. I hope this technology spreads. And thank you Germany, for still being champions of innovation, research, and development!
Well done 👍 , it seems the cars are becoming more and more like the smartphones, hopefully with longer lifespan.
This is a very important step to an ev future. Thank you!
Danke für die inhaltsschweren Informationen. So etwas benötigt die notorisch oberflächliche Diskussion gerade in Deutschland.
Sad, but true 😂
Thanks for this video! Helped me a lot to understand the process.
I would like to get some of these used battery for my off grid system
@Xp Reflex That is not the problem. This company is responsible for no secondhand EV battery packs are available in central Europe! They make deals with salvagers, and collect everything. There is no Environmental benefit to that. A battery in a home installation is more energy efficient than gray powder in a drum. The problem with a million mile battery, is that it will be a long time before worn and derated packs become available, so unless Tesla drivers are worse than average, Elon is not the solution to OP's problem. This company is destroying perfectly good batteries, for pennies of profit!! I think we should organise a protest around the plant: "Battery life matters"
Quite true dear @Tore Lund.
Amazing work people!!
May i know, what company provided mechanical recycling line?
anyone know of any companies that process lithium batteries for recycling or disposal in the USA?
American Manganese seems to be the biggest one with a similar process. Also former Tesla co-founder JB Straubel started one called Redwood Materials.
How does the factory discharge the module before destroying the battery?
So why are there hundreds of thousands of used Lithium Ion EV batteries wasting away in containers in the UK?
Could it be the cost of recycling?
The shredders are powered from the batteries, but after the usable capacity is used up, are they further depleted for safer shredding? If so, how is this done and how deeply are they discharged?
As far as I know there is no further discharging. Shredding happens under nitrogen to reduce the danger of explosions. Dirk
Hello. Do you transfer technology ?
before the battery pack is opened and disassembled, is there a discharging process first? if yes, what method do you use? with electronic load discharge, salt solution, or something else?
I am also very curious about the answer to this question, I hope they will answer
it is a machine. like electronic load discharge
Why those cells look like new?
They come from prototyp and test cars. There are no „old“ cells yet.
Because they waist good cells and shread them. Lithium works well for years. After vehicles cells can be used in many applications and do not need to be scrapped.
That's awesome! There is an idea to legislate companies' responsible use of batteries. As we all know that the harvesting of Lithium and many other battery metals) is detrimental to certain Earth regions. I remember Argentina or chili on the list of the most affected countries. Perhaps the future solutions would be as follows: companies would accumulate enough "batteries" that would allow producers to rely on their recycling programs. The idea is that once the electric-vehicle company possesses 100% batteries to support their production, it will no longer be allowed to purchase new cell materials. That will allow precious metals to remain at a high price and redirect technology into a scientific way. Besides, Solar energy could be enough to power this particular recycling plant. I am not incentivizing to refuse the use of fossil fuels. They ought to be used to produce high-grade plastics or unique substances that would allow maintaining oil prices. That would allow some countries to continue to harvest, with better resources and in a better way.
As future leaders, we should at least demonstrate our voice.!
Thank you for reading my thoughts. Best in 2021!
Since we are wishing. I'm wishing that the battery life is extended by several times. The recycling is not cost effective yet. But I'm suspecting that the process will be improved over time.
i only want to know one thing. is this process profitable?
Not yet
That mindset wont help the planet. Its the very mindset thats destroying it
@@Drehmoment-dk I hope a govt incentive or tax rebate is wrkd out to move it towards profitability which must apply new cars using batteries made of recycled batteries.
What happens to the remaining 4%? X by many thousands would amount to a lot of waste, and how toxic is that waste?
Most of it is plastic from the separator foil and from the carrier material of the anode and cathode. The normal way is thermal recovery. Which basically means: it burns. Not the best way, but better than thermal recovery of the whole battery which is done by most recycling companies today.
@@Drehmoment-dk thank you so much for sharing this great process. Should be required for all recycling of these batteries.
So, the process is not as eco friendly as it says it is because it has to deal with the chemicals it creates in its process. Interesting! There is a company that has patented a process that does not have this problem.
Burning means it is put into the atmosphere for you to breath! You know the eco friendly way!
@@schulzmj1 doing it without the 4% burn would be better of course.
Sir can i use this link to my bio
Sure
Great! It goes ahead!
Dude has some funky sideburns! LOL
Is that an American pronouncing aluminium and not aluminum @ 2:20?
Can the OEMs come out and say how much percentage of their new battery is using recycled lithium?
Would be interesting to know. For now I am sure that the percentage is very low - there is almost no recycled material on the market yet.
Now I understand why they let no cameras inside..
Okay, so this is a great example, how is it done everywhere else?
So far, thermal recycling is mostly used. The battery is burned or melted down. Unfortunately, a number of raw materials are lost in the process. The rest is then separated and recycled
Is this company in full production now. Are they going to be renting the containers with the shredding and sorting machines.
Can I have your email for discussion of transfer the technology?
So can they process thousands of batteries per day ?
No, this is just a trial facility. But they plan to scale the technology.
@@Drehmoment-dk I wonder what the cost to return is.
@timemachine194 Why is nobody reporting that in the real world ? People have already replaced barrery once or twice in a 10 year period. Manufacturers make lots of claims that never pan out under real world use. There just claims and of course they are never going to say anything but good about there product no matter how crappy it is just ask GM.
@timemachine194 If you want to throw your money at the EV Industry go ahead. Im choosing not to and telling people the truth.
@timemachine194 I have looked at all the numbers. Numbers dont lie people do. Put all costs of a Toyota Corolla up against all costs of a base model Tesla. Numbers dont lie ! Green my ass most electric power comes from coal fired plants. Your EV science will end just like the last 2 times when the American public see the true cost !
Any way of getting in contact with this company. I’ve tried emailing them several times using the address giving on there website. No one has replied.
Well, that is strange. Did you try info@duesenfeld.com ?
Yes, that’s the email address on there web page. I have tried again without reply.
Are they recycling bad batteries or even goods ones get shreded?
you talk about tested batteries at the end of the video...
That is what i ask myself after watching the fully charged video...
market decides as always with scrappers and salvagers. If your car is in an accident and the system reports potential damage to the battery (happened with mine) they're going to take out that battery and recycle it. There's nothing else they can do so they'll take whatever price they can get from a recycling company. Now if a branch falls on top of an electric car and the battery is completely safe well yes they could sell it to a recycler still. But chances are they'll get more money selling it as a useable battery to another Ev owner for their car, maybe a company who wants to use them in grid storage installations etc.
AMAZING
Ok, the batteries first life is in mobile cars but the next life is as a stationary storage device?
Re-using old EV battery packs is already happening on a large scale. There is a large sports stadium in Utrecht in Holland, powered by 200 old Nissan Leaf batteries, charged via solar. And there is a large windfarm in Wales, in the UK, which uses around 250 ex BMW i3 batteries to store energy.....
@@Brian-om2hh Ok, you are confirming my question. Do you know why they are recycling them into stationary storage? Its more cost effective?
Der Name _Düsenfeld_ alleine ist ja schon der Hit ;) Interessantes Video! Kommt da auch noch eine deutsche Version von?
Gibt schon eine deutsche Version. th-cam.com/video/pwoRxee97Rs/w-d-xo.html Gruß Dirk
Recycling batteries eco-friendlyly😃
Welches ist denn nun das Original, das deutsche oder das amerikanisch-sprachige Video?
Beides von mir. Beides Original. Gruß Dirk
How to do things eco-friendlyly.
You know some will be thrown in landfill
@@protennis365 already happening , I’d imagine. So governments have to act fast. It’s one of the many reasons why the switch to electric hasn’t really taken off.
@@Alrukitaf The government will not. Some of those people that pass laws don't have a clue what EV do.
@@protennis365 True. Also, those who do are lobbied secretly by coal gas and oil interests to stymie the uptake of ev’s because their incomes will be drastically reduced. Human nature, but it’s flawed thinking. They should invest in ev technology because it’s on the verge of becoming very very competitive.
The atmosphere needs more CO2, not less.
👌
This process is not a true hydrometatallergical process. But keep trying.
Great vid!
Just checked their website and the 96% recovery rate isn't mentioned anywhere on their website though, there they talk about 85% efficiency...(??) Anyone any thoughts on this?
JB Straubel (from Tesla) once mentioned a possible 94% recovery rate, I would be greatly impressed if they actually achieved any where near 96%.
very unlikely, smoke and mirrors. There is only one company that has even come close to a truly eco friendly process and this is not it!
"Cameras are strictly off limits within the hallowed production hall." Why? They don't want to share their recycling techniques? Greed will most likely be the undoing of our species.
AMERICAN MANGANESE is the leader!!!
For me, this is just a commercial. Seems that industrial scale is still far away.
You are right, industry scale is still far away. The end of life batteries in large numbers are missing. This is a trial facility. But an important start into the recycling circle.
Yet again can you sustain the company and make profits without the government incentives?
The oil industry doesn't. It gets billions in subsidies each year......
I realy dont care about CO2! but they reduces cost and don't ship the batterys all over the country and thats reduces CO2 why not!
@Xp Reflex yes all the people die on CO2 xD
Batteries......
@@Brian-om2hh dini müetter.....
Stupid waste of good batteries. Even if they maybe are not good for cars anymore they are for sure good as a power bank at homes. This is not environmentally smart.
Recycling starts AFTER those batteries were in stationary power banks.
@@Drehmoment-dk how is that possible?? The video shows a car battery ! Power banks have not been in the market long enough. Our Tesla cars 6 years old have 270.000 km so far and only lost 1% per year. A power bank losses much less capacity. So maybe after 30 - 50 years you need to recycle those.
You are right. The large number of batteries is still missing. Most of the used cells come from prototype or crashed cars. But the general idea is that batteries have a second life in stationary use before they are recyceled. By the way: Volkswagen just started a test facility with the same recycling method.
@@Drehmoment-dk yes I did see Volkswagens new plant. Agree that there is a great market in the future.
Im sad to see a perfectly reusable battery packs getting destroyed 😢
Well, there aren’t many used batteries yet. They mainly use packs from prototype cars.
@@Drehmoment-dk
Those must be destroyed because of prototype regulations?
Good point. In the interests of eco-friendliness, the structures can be re-used fo the same battery pack for the same vehicle.
@@Alrukitaf It was not a prototype being destroyed in the video, but a pack from a BMW I3, a vehicle very much in production which has one of the industry's most advanced Samsung cells. 20.9 years average lifespan until 80% capacity remains. And they just throw them in the shredder!!
@@Tore_Lund It could be fucking broken or defective. Holy shit, people like you have to find negative things in everything instead of finding solutions.
So, the process is not as eco friendly as it says it is because it has to deal with the chemicals it creates in its process. Interesting! There is a company that has patented a process that does not have this problem.
Everyone will have chemicals from the process. L-ion battery’s contain electrolyte
@@clarkesminifishroom6010 Sorry but a statement like yours occurs when one has not done your research.
What do you imagine you are going to get out of recycling batteries, if not chemicals? All stuff - all physical substances - are chemicals. The chemicals from this recycling process will be the inputs to new manufacturing.
@@schulzmj1 Can I ask who this other company is you keep talking about. I would be interested in taking a look at there process.
My father still has his first car. a car that his father used before him :) its made in the 1948 it has a engine rebuild and a repaint. my car its made in 2004 its "stock" . when talking about pollution and CO2 cost, why don't we talk about the life expectancy of the product? The electric car that come to the scrapyard has what? 4-7 years? The energy/pollution cost are sure greater.... I think cars. like homes are super expensive in that way, and must be made to last more. or be heavily taxed
The car your father has pollutes 20 times more than a modern car. In Europe, you can't circulate with such a vehicle anyway. Your argument is pointless.
@timemachine194 :)) Jesus, what a rant. thing about this=> how much excavation is need it to make a battery, what is the CO2 cost for that, and from what is the electricity made from :) You will also find there are literally TONS of diesels that run more de one millions km. :) and much more gas power cars... The future is for sure electric. but is not yet here. I will run my gas cars till they die (fact they are legal to run in every EU state or city, including London. :) ) See you at the summer maraton :))