Very interesting thank you I have a self built camper van and just presumed that because it’s not registered with the DVLA as a camper van I am restricted to the lower speed limits.
Brilliant Vlog thank you. Own a self converted L3 H2 and had the conversion rejected to Van with Windows in 2019 during criteria changes. So this helps alot.
Many thanks for your concise answer. I have recently bought a Ford Nugget campervan and I was aware when I towed a caravan previously that I had to observe the lower limits. When I bought the Nugget I checked the V5 showed it’s weight( well below3.5tons) and also it stated it was a motor caravan. So I assumed it was the same limit as a car. However I have just received a notice stating Iwas doing 57mph on a 60mph road. I have to provide the driver details (myself) at what point do I appeal the fine? I think I have good reason to believe the higher limits apply to my Nugget. Even Ford market the Nugget as a campervan!
The appeal process should be detailed on the ticket, if I remember correctly it is when you get the Notice of Intended Prosecution. Just be sure that the detail of the ticket shows it was National Speed Limit and not a temporary 50 or anything like that. Then put your appeal together clearly referencing the documents / references in the video. I suspect you won’t have any problem with the appeal but do let us know how it goes!
Great video. I didn't know this. I tend to stick to between 50 and 60 anyway in my camper, but good to know there's a way out of a ticket if I do get one.
Sadly, my campervan is a professionally converted VW Transporter T6.1 with a pop top and the DVLA will not amend the V5 so it’s is still a LGV. The lower speed limits apply so I just poodle along and reduce my fuel costs. Of course, every van is racing past me on dual carriageways. However, I will look closely at the video and extract the relevant details and reassess my options. Thanks for clarifying the ambiguity that seems to exist elsewhere.
Hi Peter, thanks for taking the time to comment, do take a look at the video as hopefully it will reassure you that this doesn't appear to be the case, as proven in a number of cases now. The DVLA Body type has no impact on the speed limit applied to the vehicle. (This is even confirmed in the letter you receive from the DVLA if you are not able to reclassify) as clarified in the various correspondence in the video. So assuming your van is converted in line with the Department for Transport's internal guidelines and the unladen weight is below 3.05T then all the legislation and clarifications indicate that the higher limit applies.
In my opinion judging on my understanding once converted (assuming it meets the D for Ts criteria) if you can get it weighed at less than 3.05t (empty of all other gear and people) then the upper speed limits would apply.
@@ExploreVanUK Thank you for taking the time to do the detailed reply. Much appreciated. My van was an ex ambulance that I've stripped back to bare bones, to reduce as much weight as possible. You would be amazed by the amount of weight I've removed. Even behind the plastic wall cladding there was steel box section and 2mm sheet steel welded to the walls of the van that all the wall and floor cupboards were fixed, plus 3 rear seats and 3 AGM batteries. I've removed about 50kgs of ambulance related wire and cables from the real of the Peugeot Boxer. In total including the rear ramp i think I've removed at least 750kgs. Possibly more than that. It's going to be a bit heavier because it's the L4H3 version with a 3 litre engine but I'm sure the van plus the completed build will be below 3 tonnes.
Just got flashed by a speed camera in France on Saturday when I was going the speed limit as it seemed to have confused me for a vehicle of over 3.5t which had a lower speed limit. Waiting to see if a human catches it before they send out the ticket.
Hi Paul, it shouldn't be the case. If they were towing or in a Goods Vehicle weighing more than 7.5t MAM/GVW the speed limit on a motorway would be 60 mph. Otherwise it would be 70 mph. Unless of course there was a temporary limit in place for road works or a Smart Motorway.
Hi! You mentioned the unladen weight as being 3.05 throughout the video. Just wanted to clarify if you were leaving to refer to the max vehicle weight of 3.5t (inclusive of driver and everything else) or if there is a special requirement for the unladen weight to be 3.05t? In any case, just wanted to say thank you for the thorough and logical presentation of this topic. Cheers!
Hi, thanks great to hear it was helpful. Yeah there is a difference between the unladen weight and the 3.5t of a lot of vans which is the Maximum Authorised Mass (MAM). The Unladen Weight is a difficult one to actually measure at it is technically the weight of the vehicle, without any loose equipment, items, people, fuel or water. Essentially if you weigh your van with nothing in it and it is below 3.05t then you can safely say your unladen weight is below 3.05t. This page has a good definition of the different weights www.gov.uk/vehicle-weights-explained
I have been trying (unsuccessfully) to discover the ULW of my 1999 Autotrail 590S for some time now. The forums are full of people asking the same questions and it appears that nobody has found a reliable way of obtaining this information. Even if you strip everything out of the vehicle, a mammoth task in itself, you must still have fuel, coolant etc in order to take it to a weighbridge. Manufacturers seem unwilling or unable to provide the ULW. Perhaps a lawyer might take the view that it's up to them to prove the ULW is above 3.05t and see how easily they can find it.
Yep measuring the true ULW is not really possible and in a coachbuild you can’t really derive it from the base vehicle weight. However you can reasonably prove that the ULW is below 3.05t just by having a weighbridge ticket showing the weight below 3.05t. As if you can get to weigh that the ULW must be less than the state it was in on the weigh bridge. If it’s that close that you can’t reasonably easily get it to weigh less than 3.05t (Eg just by taking your gear out) probably best to stick to the lower speed limits just in case.
NB the 590s is quoted as having an unlaiden wieght of 2740kg here. www.gocaravanning.com/motorhome-specifications/model/auto-trail-cheyenne-590-s_617.html
Just left Turkiye & had to pay a speeding fine for exceeding the limit going through a ‘gallery’ . Fine 5.75 TL . I only had a 5TL banknote : official : that will do ! .25 pence 🤣
Only if your ‘campervan or motorhome’ not only meets the classification of said campervan or motorhome it should also have been re-classified as one and have the relevant certificate to prove the said classification. Most converted do not meet reclassification since changing recently. Decals, extra windows etc.
Thanks, that’s not the case, it’s covered in the video and confirmed in the sources in the link. It only has to meet the interior requirements, the DVLAs classification of Body Type is not used to determine the Speed Limit of a vehicle. This is confirmed by both the DVLA and the Department For Transport in the links and documentation I have included on our website www.explorevan.uk/speed
The unladen weight of any vehicle is the weight of the vehicle when it’s not carrying any passengers, goods or other items. It includes the body and all parts normally used with the vehicle or trailer when it’s used on a road. In short the Campervan / Motorhome when there is nothing in it
Quite a few examples from the Facebook groups I shared in of people that have been successful. Unfortunately it won't let me link to posts here. But search for "campervan speeding ticket mercia" and you'll find at least one.
@@ExploreVanUK as long as it dont need to be registered as you'll most likely know i swb vivaro is no longer meets the criteria only gets put as van with window
@@ThorsTreasure DVLA make it very clear in their letters and Freedom of Information request that the Body Type makes no difference to the speed limit. It is how the vehicle is used that does.
@ThorsTreasure Having the letter from DVLA saying that you had tried to register it as a Motor-Caravan and it had all the necessary internal features, but just didn't look like one, dated prior to the offence would have been good. Technically, you'll need to demonstrate that the vehicle had all the internal features necessary to be classed as a Motor Caravan by DforT (you can find them here www.gov.uk/government/publications/registering-a-diy-caravan/converting-a-vehicle-into-a-motorhome ) at the time of the offence, which it sounds like you will struggle to do. But always worth a try.
Very interesting thank you I have a self built camper van and just presumed that because it’s not registered with the DVLA as a camper van I am restricted to the lower speed limits.
Brilliant Vlog thank you. Own a self converted L3 H2 and had the conversion rejected to Van with Windows in 2019 during criteria changes. So this helps alot.
very useful ! Thank you. i still drive at the lower limits though as my 2.2 deisel citroen relay l3 h2 is almost 10mpg better on fuel ! 😁
Many thanks for your concise answer. I have recently bought a Ford Nugget campervan and I was aware when I towed a caravan previously that I had to observe the lower limits. When I bought the Nugget I checked the V5 showed it’s weight( well below3.5tons) and also it stated it was a motor caravan. So I assumed it was the same limit as a car. However I have just received a notice stating Iwas doing 57mph on a 60mph road. I have to provide the driver details (myself) at what point do I appeal the fine? I think I have good reason to believe the higher limits apply to my Nugget. Even Ford market the Nugget as a campervan!
The appeal process should be detailed on the ticket, if I remember correctly it is when you get the Notice of Intended Prosecution.
Just be sure that the detail of the ticket shows it was National Speed Limit and not a temporary 50 or anything like that. Then put your appeal together clearly referencing the documents / references in the video.
I suspect you won’t have any problem with the appeal but do let us know how it goes!
Thanks, I was aware of this but wasn't sure what I would have to do to fight a fine.
Great video. I didn't know this. I tend to stick to between 50 and 60 anyway in my camper, but good to know there's a way out of a ticket if I do get one.
Sadly, my campervan is a professionally converted VW Transporter T6.1 with a pop top and the DVLA will not amend the V5 so it’s is still a LGV. The lower speed limits apply so I just poodle along and reduce my fuel costs. Of course, every van is racing past me on dual carriageways. However, I will look closely at the video and extract the relevant details and reassess my options. Thanks for clarifying the ambiguity that seems to exist elsewhere.
Hi Peter, thanks for taking the time to comment, do take a look at the video as hopefully it will reassure you that this doesn't appear to be the case, as proven in a number of cases now.
The DVLA Body type has no impact on the speed limit applied to the vehicle. (This is even confirmed in the letter you receive from the DVLA if you are not able to reclassify) as clarified in the various correspondence in the video.
So assuming your van is converted in line with the Department for Transport's internal guidelines and the unladen weight is below 3.05T then all the legislation and clarifications indicate that the higher limit applies.
Obviously didn’t watch the video ffs 🤦🏻♂️
Really helpful posting and indeed surprising !
My van that I'm covering to campervan has been up-plated to 4 tonnes (private HGV) so I have to look into the speed limits.
In my opinion judging on my understanding once converted (assuming it meets the D for Ts criteria) if you can get it weighed at less than 3.05t (empty of all other gear and people) then the upper speed limits would apply.
@@ExploreVanUK Thank you for taking the time to do the detailed reply. Much appreciated. My van was an ex ambulance that I've stripped back to bare bones, to reduce as much weight as possible.
You would be amazed by the amount of weight I've removed. Even behind the plastic wall cladding there was steel box section and 2mm sheet steel welded to the walls of the van that all the wall and floor cupboards were fixed, plus 3 rear seats and 3 AGM batteries. I've removed about 50kgs of ambulance related wire and cables from the real of the Peugeot Boxer. In total including the rear ramp i think I've removed at least 750kgs. Possibly more than that.
It's going to be a bit heavier because it's the L4H3 version with a 3 litre engine but I'm sure the van plus the completed build will be below 3 tonnes.
Sounds great Ambulances make a great base! Have fun!
Just got flashed by a speed camera in France on Saturday when I was going the speed limit as it seemed to have confused me for a vehicle of over 3.5t which had a lower speed limit. Waiting to see if a human catches it before they send out the ticket.
Yeah this has happen to us quite regularly in France in the past. Never had a ticket.
Hi I have seen on TH-cam someone was find for driving under 60 mph on the motorway is this true all the best Paul
Hi Paul, it shouldn't be the case. If they were towing or in a Goods Vehicle weighing more than 7.5t MAM/GVW the speed limit on a motorway would be 60 mph.
Otherwise it would be 70 mph.
Unless of course there was a temporary limit in place for road works or a Smart Motorway.
Hi! You mentioned the unladen weight as being 3.05 throughout the video. Just wanted to clarify if you were leaving to refer to the max vehicle weight of 3.5t (inclusive of driver and everything else) or if there is a special requirement for the unladen weight to be 3.05t?
In any case, just wanted to say thank you for the thorough and logical presentation of this topic. Cheers!
Hi, thanks great to hear it was helpful.
Yeah there is a difference between the unladen weight and the 3.5t of a lot of vans which is the Maximum Authorised Mass (MAM).
The Unladen Weight is a difficult one to actually measure at it is technically the weight of the vehicle, without any loose equipment, items, people, fuel or water. Essentially if you weigh your van with nothing in it and it is below 3.05t then you can safely say your unladen weight is below 3.05t.
This page has a good definition of the different weights www.gov.uk/vehicle-weights-explained
@@ExploreVanUK thanks. that's clear. i have saved this video into my playlist of videos i hope to not need to watch again :) cheers!
I have been trying (unsuccessfully) to discover the ULW of my 1999 Autotrail 590S for some time now. The forums are full of people asking the same questions and it appears that nobody has found a reliable way of obtaining this information. Even if you strip everything out of the vehicle, a mammoth task in itself, you must still have fuel, coolant etc in order to take it to a weighbridge. Manufacturers seem unwilling or unable to provide the ULW. Perhaps a lawyer might take the view that it's up to them to prove the ULW is above 3.05t and see how easily they can find it.
Yep measuring the true ULW is not really possible and in a coachbuild you can’t really derive it from the base vehicle weight.
However you can reasonably prove that the ULW is below 3.05t just by having a weighbridge ticket showing the weight below 3.05t. As if you can get to weigh that the ULW must be less than the state it was in on the weigh bridge.
If it’s that close that you can’t reasonably easily get it to weigh less than 3.05t (Eg just by taking your gear out) probably best to stick to the lower speed limits just in case.
NB the 590s is quoted as having an unlaiden wieght of 2740kg here.
www.gocaravanning.com/motorhome-specifications/model/auto-trail-cheyenne-590-s_617.html
@@ExploreVanUK Indeed, this is the only sure way of avoiding a ticket and let's face it, we're probably not in that much of a hurry anyway. Cheers
Just left Turkiye & had to pay a speeding fine for exceeding the limit going through a ‘gallery’ . Fine 5.75 TL . I only had a 5TL banknote : official : that will do ! .25 pence 🤣
Only if your ‘campervan or motorhome’ not only meets the classification of said campervan or motorhome it should also have been re-classified as one and have the relevant certificate to prove the said classification. Most converted do not meet reclassification since changing recently. Decals, extra windows etc.
Thanks, that’s not the case, it’s covered in the video and confirmed in the sources in the link.
It only has to meet the interior requirements, the DVLAs classification of Body Type is not used to determine the Speed Limit of a vehicle.
This is confirmed by both the DVLA and the Department For Transport in the links and documentation I have included on our website www.explorevan.uk/speed
Glen, if you watch the video you will find a detailed explanation plus references that proves the exact opposite of your post.
what do you mean unladen weight
The unladen weight of any vehicle is the weight of the vehicle when it’s not carrying any passengers, goods or other items.
It includes the body and all parts normally used with the vehicle or trailer when it’s used on a road.
In short the Campervan / Motorhome when there is nothing in it
But who has been succesfull
Quite a few examples from the Facebook groups I shared in of people that have been successful. Unfortunately it won't let me link to posts here.
But search for "campervan speeding ticket mercia" and you'll find at least one.
@@ExploreVanUK as long as it dont need to be registered as you'll most likely know i swb vivaro is no longer meets the criteria only gets put as van with window
@@ThorsTreasure DVLA make it very clear in their letters and Freedom of Information request that the Body Type makes no difference to the speed limit. It is how the vehicle is used that does.
@@ExploreVanUK ill try it ive got a kitchen unit i can fling in it and i can fold my seats to look like a bed
@ThorsTreasure Having the letter from DVLA saying that you had tried to register it as a Motor-Caravan and it had all the necessary internal features, but just didn't look like one, dated prior to the offence would have been good.
Technically, you'll need to demonstrate that the vehicle had all the internal features necessary to be classed as a Motor Caravan by DforT (you can find them here www.gov.uk/government/publications/registering-a-diy-caravan/converting-a-vehicle-into-a-motorhome ) at the time of the offence, which it sounds like you will struggle to do. But always worth a try.
Send it back "not at this address"
No Mr Title
No Dead man (capital letters - "capitus dimintio maxima"
Loss of status
What happend
Alternatively, just drive to the lower speed limit. It's not that hard.
Its dangerous