i always assumed this attack being an aoe, a cone for example, lingering and affecting you per tick as mist-spells do. but seeing all those small hitbox indicator shoot out of the jailer was far more entertaining. thank you for your work! that makes me wonder how mist-spells work exactly?
"The jailers confuse most players on their first encouter with them (...)" Dude I've been playing this game for like 3 years and I never could figure out what's up with their health drain. Thank you for this video, understanding what's hitting you makes dealing with this enemies so much less menacing.
@@nahrikkon Imagine being a massive multi million dollar company and not being able to hire decent translators and proof readers for a game that is this massive and popular.
Now that I think about it looking at the slowed down footage, it takes a second for you to actually gain the main health drain effect(Which lasts 20 secs), so that 3 sec effect might be a sorta threshold thing, where u need to get hit a few times before you actually start losing max HP Also the smoke doesn't have any effect even tho it has a hitbox, it likely just remains as a visual queue for the pursuing mode activation.
I was wondering; can you block the proyectiles by raising the shield? It's stupid, but I didn't see it mentioned in the video and I've never played a shield run due to how bad they are in that game
I don't think anyone's reverse engineered the game's debug hitboxes yet if they exist(Which they likely do) due to the fact of DS2's code being less identical then the other souls games are to each other. I can defintely try and I know some people who can also help me look. If I'm lucky enough to find it, which ones would you consider janky? I haven't played it over nearly as much as you likely have so my knowledge on which ones seem to have janky hitboxes is limited, unlike DS1(*cough* titanite demon). Can really only think of that one meme with the pursuer grab.
Update 6 months later, we now have a hitbox viewer mod. My friend Radai made it after some lengthy reverse engineering that I gave a bit of help with him on based off what I know about some of the technical parts of how they work in DS3 and as it turned out in DS2, but he did all the actual coding & reversing. You can find his channel here(th-cam.com/users/LordRadai) and various videos of him showing off some of the janky hitboxes he tested.
I always bring Slumbering Dragoncrest Ring and a weapon for backstab when going to Irithyll Dungeon, turns that part of the game into a stealth section. One of the Jailers(the 2nd one you see to be exact) even needs you to distract them by firing arrows/throwing knife near them otherwise they'll spot you
something like irythill&irythill dungeon i imagine would be 10 times even more fun and interesting to play in elden ring which has proper stealth... can't wait for it.
@@iota-09 If they add crouching as a stealth mechanic it would suffice. But knowing From, they'll design abilities available to every class that can activate stealth.
This is a god tier explanation. I really enjoy these type of videos. Thank you for the effort it must take to get this type of information into my smooth, small brain.
I get what you say but tbh , the giant cursing spider from both anor londo's main entrance and the room in the cathdral of the depth are genuinely terrifying for me. Jailers dont even compare haha
I love their design and I think the health drain mechanic really adds to the intimidation factor for them. They're one of the coolest and most unsettling enemies in Dark Souls, IMO.
Basilisk in DS1 still top the list on my playthrough of any souls game though (that sewer level still haunt me to this days-even more than blighttown...)
Thanks Amir! I remember asking Zullie specifically for this, so glad you did this video! It's really fascinating to see the hitboxes and how it exactly works!
The special effect is really the interesting thing in this attack they rarely use a spCategory that allows an effect to stack with itself the trick with the bullet is actually used quite a few times notably the danger vfx from Sekiro is created similarly
Confusing for new players? Bruh, I've been playing this since it came out. This shit never made any damn sense to me. The only things I figured were that the soldering iron was a grab and that the mist drained max hp. And I was still only half right. You're a champion good sir.
Omg thank you so much for explaining this. I've played through ds3 countless times and this attack always perplexed me. I knew you had to los but never understood how exactly the attack worked. Thank you sooo much again!
Short and informational, thank you! What do you think about Greatswords having a smashing running r1 (like ds3's greathammers) in Elden Ring? I always found the spin from previous games a bit useless in 1v1 situations
They still have the slow spin on the running r2, and I liked the spin quite a bit because how it could catch people horizontally depending on how u used it. And in a 1v1 situation it's more of the speed rather than it being a thrust, slash or slam.
Wait people didn’t know the jailers where the ones removing their health at first I thought that was fairly obvious when I ran into them the first time
During my first playthrough of a souls game I always play with minimum health, and in DS3 they give rings that buff you when at your max health, so the jailers were actually maladapted to me as I didn't have much health to begin with and if I took damage the hp lowering just reactivated the buffing rings.
This is why I hate Irythyll Dungeon. It's not even "you played poorly", you just happen to be there and bam, no more max health. The main room is horrible because there's like 5 or 6 of these horrors. At least if ruining the player's day is what they intended to achieve, they succeeded with these abominations.
What I love doing in the main room with all the jailers is sneaking around them and opening the Crucifix demon's cell. It's effective and I love watching him reek havoc against them.
Knowing that blocking line of sight blocks the projectiles honestly made it feel like any normal fight. The big room has several areas where you can avoid being seen, and they don't seem to have very good tracking. Run from one room to the next, and only heal once you are out of there, or if you want to kill them, slowly lure them to one of the side rooms, or take them out when they are more separated. Wasn't that bad
Great video, I always thought it was like old school metal gear solid one sight line boxes. But this is far stranger. Th e fact you can parry it is just crazy.
Good to know, I always thought it was a line of sight beam rather than projectiles. For whatever reason I also thought going invisible would prevent them from doing the effect since when I used the milk ring I wouldn’t take damage mid roll, as I was invisible. Turns out i was just immune to the projectiles as normal rolling
I guess that explains why you could block the effect with shields before the patch. At first it seemed like covering your eyes stopped it... would have made sense...
This makes so much more sense. I always figured it was an AoE attack, which is why I was confused that no matter how many times I sprint past them, they always managed to drain my max HP. I am both angry at Miyazaki for doing this yet happy to find out how it works
Them being able to be circle strafed would be a weakness if they didn't always appear in narrow places... (or for the one huge area they appear on, there's like 8 of them at once)
I was happy to find out that it’s hidden body active despite having the yellow eyes and red lantern they weren’t actually using their attack (or they were missing)
At first I thought you were shooting waffles at the player as a joke about the soldering iron, it wasn’t until towards the end that I finally realized those were hit boxes LOL
Good to understand this completely now. I remember doing dozens of playthroughs and I only guessed that it had something to do with range or possibly its opening fog attack so I'd end up sprinting out of there as fast as I could, which sometimes didn't work since I'd get caught by the health drain anyway. At least now I know it was because they were still aggro'ed to me and caught up just in time to tag me
Hidden Body, Arrows, and the Storyteller's Staff. I took one look at those Bloodborne-belonging Tall Heaps of Nightmare Fuel and said "yep, gonna give these the stealth treatment." I didn't 'want' to be a stealth archer on my first playthrough, but then I said "I will farm for the staff once. One farm kill of the Storyteller is all you get, Fate." And then I got the Staff on my first actual try. After Plat'ing DeS, DS1, and DS2, this game knows me and my ninja/stealth/cheese/scrub tendencies too well. :/
I figured out by myself that it was active only when they look at you, but i was expecting something like a constant cone shaped hitbox, instead of them just throwing a bunch of small hitboxes ar you lmao
The machine gun spheres are how some games use player detection, like N64's sneaking sections. I've found that knocking them down with a running leap attack works pretty well, but still lose a bit of health. Are they emitting all the time once in pursuit mode, and once knocked down, are firing them straight up (aka, is it tied to the facing direction of their torso)?
I've thought about this when watching happy hob run before, and I would guess that since there is not a visual indication sometimes(Like I said in the top comment), and because u dont get stunned or damaged it can't be considered a hit. Same thing with poise rolls probably.
You can literally parry a stare in Dark Souls.
Jailer: *STARE*
Undead: bitchslaps her with shield and shouts "no eyeballin' "
@@quint3ssent1a ashen one: *what dem eyes do doe?*
a guy made a mod where you can parry emotes, on youtube its "Dark Souls Except It's Incredibly Cursed
"
Whoops I almost ruined the 420 likes
You can also in Sekiro. Probably.
Seeing a horde of spheres exit them at high speeds makes them even more menacing.
If it was squares it would be even more menacing
Menacing!!
Jailer: OraOraOraOraOraOra
Looks like a shmup boss
"Get orbed, noob"
i always assumed this attack being an aoe, a cone for example, lingering and affecting you per tick as mist-spells do.
but seeing all those small hitbox indicator shoot out of the jailer was far more entertaining. thank you for your work!
that makes me wonder how mist-spells work exactly?
mist spells work like u would expect, it's just a hitbox covering the area of the mist. The jailer is just weird
This. It's why i always just killed them as fast as possible and hid behind walls. Strafing i always saw as a death sentence
@@primisto7530 well, now we know that we only need to roll more
I always thought it was a long me of sight kind of thing
Wow for real me too, that explains why running away didn't work.... xD
"Just under the speed limit of most highways" made me snort.
U Egyptian or what? 😂
"The jailers confuse most players on their first encouter with them (...)" Dude I've been playing this game for like 3 years and I never could figure out what's up with their health drain. Thank you for this video, understanding what's hitting you makes dealing with this enemies so much less menacing.
Obviously their soldering irons give them health drain abilities
I detect a slight bias
It should have been called branding iron. Since that's what it actually is.
@@theblackbaron4119 it’s probably a typo from “smouldering iron”
@@nahrikkon Imagine being a massive multi million dollar company and not being able to hire decent translators and proof readers for a game that is this massive and popular.
I hate your i-Frame-defying weapon mechanics.
Now that I think about it looking at the slowed down footage, it takes a second for you to actually gain the main health drain effect(Which lasts 20 secs), so that 3 sec effect might be a sorta threshold thing, where u need to get hit a few times before you actually start losing max HP
Also the smoke doesn't have any effect even tho it has a hitbox, it likely just remains as a visual queue for the pursuing mode activation.
i love your content please do as good a job on elden ring i am begging you!
The smoke looks awful lots like the basilic's smoke, they probably wanted them to curse you as well but their tester couldn't progress anymore lol
"u need to get hit a few times before you" why would you be too lazy to spell out you the first time, but then spell it out the next?
I was wondering; can you block the proyectiles by raising the shield? It's stupid, but I didn't see it mentioned in the video and I've never played a shield run due to how bad they are in that game
@@davidlaurin3911The Japanese and English versions of Souls games have never had gameplay differences, and are patched simultaneously.
I'd love to see this for DS2's jankiest hitboxes!
I don't think anyone's reverse engineered the game's debug hitboxes yet if they exist(Which they likely do) due to the fact of DS2's code being less identical then the other souls games are to each other. I can defintely try and I know some people who can also help me look.
If I'm lucky enough to find it, which ones would you consider janky? I haven't played it over nearly as much as you likely have so my knowledge on which ones seem to have janky hitboxes is limited, unlike DS1(*cough* titanite demon). Can really only think of that one meme with the pursuer grab.
@@Amir0 I'd like to add Pursuers Stab-Grab
@@Amir0 Lost sinners lunge is one that has clipped me from an absurd distance to the side, also the elite giants with 2 clubs.
@@Amir0 and the turtle dudes with the giant clubs in the iron keep.
Update 6 months later, we now have a hitbox viewer mod. My friend Radai made it after some lengthy reverse engineering that I gave a bit of help with him on based off what I know about some of the technical parts of how they work in DS3 and as it turned out in DS2, but he did all the actual coding & reversing. You can find his channel here(th-cam.com/users/LordRadai) and various videos of him showing off some of the janky hitboxes he tested.
Thought this was a zullie video. I've been lied to.
I knew it wasn't when I saw it was 5 minutes long
I always bring Slumbering Dragoncrest Ring and a weapon for backstab when going to Irithyll Dungeon, turns that part of the game into a stealth section.
One of the Jailers(the 2nd one you see to be exact) even needs you to distract them by firing arrows/throwing knife near them otherwise they'll spot you
something like irythill&irythill dungeon i imagine would be 10 times even more fun and interesting to play in elden ring which has proper stealth... can't wait for it.
My man Vincent is playing Elden Ring already.
I just ran to them and slap them dead in two hit, speed runer style and unsurprisingly much more effective than going stealth
@@iota-09 If they add crouching as a stealth mechanic it would suffice. But knowing From, they'll design abilities available to every class that can activate stealth.
@@Red41554 I don't know... Didn't they give you a simple crouch thing that is the same as walking slowly on the rest of games?
But where is the invisible npc launching the projectiles
no need since it's literally shooting from the body, altho it would be funny if that was the case because of how redundant it would be
Another fan of zullie I see. Lmfao
I never even noticed that there is an estus icon indicating the iron's effect on the status bar.
See it's a shame, they missed a clear opportunity to add an enemy that pelts you with 10,000 oranges /minute.
Game dev is so neat when you break it down to these fascinating workarounds and hidden mechanics. Thanks for dropping these knowledge bombs!
I’m so happy they are only in this area and no where else…
been curious about this for a while now, thanks.
Omg I'm playing ds3 for the first time and this video is perfect timing. I just hit this area and was so confused
Great video! Been wondering so many times what in the hell is actually going on with these jailers, now I know ☺️👍
This is a god tier explanation. I really enjoy these type of videos. Thank you for the effort it must take to get this type of information into my smooth, small brain.
These might be the scariest enemies in Dark Souls for me. Not even because of the health drain, the way they look and move is profoundly unsettling.
I see what you did there.
I get what you say but tbh , the giant cursing spider from both anor londo's main entrance and the room in the cathdral of the depth are genuinely terrifying for me. Jailers dont even compare haha
I love their design and I think the health drain mechanic really adds to the intimidation factor for them. They're one of the coolest and most unsettling enemies in Dark Souls, IMO.
Basilisk in DS1 still top the list on my playthrough of any souls game though (that sewer level still haunt me to this days-even more than blighttown...)
Monstrosity of Sin tops everything for me.
I miss these DS 3 Amir videos man, I learned so much about the game. Hope you're well!
Thanks Amir! I remember asking Zullie specifically for this, so glad you did this video! It's really fascinating to see the hitboxes and how it exactly works!
The way your health just dissappears, as they do their creepy witch laugh and you hear them quickly chasing after you absolutly horrifies me💀😭
The spheres coming at you look hilarious
These Jailers are what inspired me to learn tumblebuff just to cast invisibility
the visuals of the jailers shooting rapid fire projectiles at you is really funny to me for some reason.
This was so interesting we’re lucky to have you Amir.
I always thought the drain was just from the smoke around them. Didn't know about this.
I try not to stick around long anyways.
the smoke is probably unused effect they forgot to remove, the devs could not comply with such sadism of adding a curse cloud
@@mulan-jinglesemusicas1513 i think you fat roll if you're in the smoke, right?
The special effect is really the interesting thing in this attack
they rarely use a spCategory that allows an effect to stack with itself
the trick with the bullet is actually used quite a few times
notably the danger vfx from Sekiro is created similarly
Mhm, I noticed that spCategory in param studio
Confusing for new players? Bruh, I've been playing this since it came out. This shit never made any damn sense to me. The only things I figured were that the soldering iron was a grab and that the mist drained max hp. And I was still only half right. You're a champion good sir.
i was literally just wondering about this mechanic on my recent playthrough of the irrythil dungeon. THANK YOU !
Happy to see new ds content videos other than PVPE
Omg thank you so much for explaining this. I've played through ds3 countless times and this attack always perplexed me. I knew you had to los but never understood how exactly the attack worked. Thank you sooo much again!
Short and informational, thank you!
What do you think about Greatswords having a smashing running r1 (like ds3's greathammers) in Elden Ring? I always found the spin from previous games a bit useless in 1v1 situations
They still have the slow spin on the running r2, and I liked the spin quite a bit because how it could catch people horizontally depending on how u used it. And in a 1v1 situation it's more of the speed rather than it being a thrust, slash or slam.
@@Amir0 oh thats awesome, offers even more variety!
True, but I always found those charging slams a better attack to work with
Getting Machine gunned to death by ping pong balls.
Wait people didn’t know the jailers where the ones removing their health at first I thought that was fairly obvious when I ran into them the first time
During my first playthrough of a souls game I always play with minimum health, and in DS3 they give rings that buff you when at your max health, so the jailers were actually maladapted to me as I didn't have much health to begin with and if I took damage the hp lowering just reactivated the buffing rings.
Always wondered what the hitboxes for this would look like. Thanks for the explanation!
Wish I knew this 5 years ago. Knowing how this works wouldve been a game changer since my first run of ds3 had me struggling so much to these
The gas aoe always confused the hell out of me even though I had it nailed down after a few encounters, thanks for all the detailed info.
Seeing the projectiles just pelting you looks so goofy it’s funny how the games works behind the scene
Thought I was turning on a Zullie the Witch video at first, was pleasantly surprised by Amir's voice
This is why I hate Irythyll Dungeon. It's not even "you played poorly", you just happen to be there and bam, no more max health. The main room is horrible because there's like 5 or 6 of these horrors. At least if ruining the player's day is what they intended to achieve, they succeeded with these abominations.
What I love doing in the main room with all the jailers is sneaking around them and opening the Crucifix demon's cell. It's effective and I love watching him reek havoc against them.
Only part i dislike about it is the giant and the rats
@@enterusername6953 wait. THAT WORKS? BWAHAHAH I NEED TO TRY THAT
@@enterusername6953 I tried this 2/3 times and the dude kept getting aggroed to me instead of taking out the jailers.
Knowing that blocking line of sight blocks the projectiles honestly made it feel like any normal fight. The big room has several areas where you can avoid being seen, and they don't seem to have very good tracking. Run from one room to the next, and only heal once you are out of there, or if you want to kill them, slowly lure them to one of the side rooms, or take them out when they are more separated. Wasn't that bad
I loved this video with precise explanations so much. Hope you have more on your channel, I’m about to watch every single one.
Great video, I always thought it was like old school metal gear solid one sight line boxes. But this is far stranger. Th e fact you can parry it is just crazy.
Good to know, I always thought it was a line of sight beam rather than projectiles. For whatever reason I also thought going invisible would prevent them from doing the effect since when I used the milk ring I wouldn’t take damage mid roll, as I was invisible. Turns out i was just immune to the projectiles as normal rolling
I guess that explains why you could block the effect with shields before the patch. At first it seemed like covering your eyes stopped it... would have made sense...
I am so glad I've seen this video before I got to Irithyll Dungeon.
Very informative as always, thanks for the good work.
This makes so much more sense. I always figured it was an AoE attack, which is why I was confused that no matter how many times I sprint past them, they always managed to drain my max HP. I am both angry at Miyazaki for doing this yet happy to find out how it works
I've always wondered how this works. Very informative, and perfect timing for my upcoming playthrough before Elden Ring!
Them being able to be circle strafed would be a weakness if they didn't always appear in narrow places... (or for the one huge area they appear on, there's like 8 of them at once)
I was happy to find out that it’s hidden body active despite having the yellow eyes and red lantern they weren’t actually using their attack (or they were missing)
Thank god none of those projectiles are breaking the speed limit 😤😤
One of the most hatted enemies in all of souls games.
I think there's enemies with more hats tho
@@johnjowley2223 seems I can't English today. My hats off to you sir.
Lol I thougth it was a Zullie video
Also keep in mind that you can always roll spam out of that first hit in order to avoid the stomp, from what I've seen. Great videoo.
At first I thought you were shooting waffles at the player as a joke about the soldering iron, it wasn’t until towards the end that I finally realized those were hit boxes LOL
I fear no man, but that thing (4:54) it scares me
5 years with this game and didn't know all this. I usually just rush these guys and strafe around for backstabs. Thanks
i thought it was the gas that drained the health but it realistically spread further without being visible
If I remember it correctly. Gas cloud Jailer is spreading while changing its form to red one is healing cloud.
Awesome! Thanks Amir!
Earned my sub bro. Amazing work.
Really cool man I was just fighting these guys a few days ago and was wondering this exact thing on ng+
You explained the Jailers, great work. Now explain why the Angels in The Dreg Heap are such a pain in the ass!
FromSoft chose a pretty rugged solution for implementing the stare. Great video.
Girl help, I'm getting hit by invisible projectiles moving slightly slower than the highway speed limit 😩
Worst enemy
Great vid! Was always curious aboutb this
They’re like Cyclops but with mini gun eyes
Brilliant Analysis.
So in a way, this knowledge renders every DS3 no hit run null.
I always assumed it was the lantern that drained my health by proximity lol
What you see: evil hp drain eyes.
What they see: haha, ball go brrrrrrr
Good to understand this completely now. I remember doing dozens of playthroughs and I only guessed that it had something to do with range or possibly its opening fog attack so I'd end up sprinting out of there as fast as I could, which sometimes didn't work since I'd get caught by the health drain anyway. At least now I know it was because they were still aggro'ed to me and caught up just in time to tag me
This is what I've been waiting for
1:10 Idk why but this part gave me a good chuckle 😂
I have watched enough of Zullies clips to know where this is going :D
Who would have thought jailers were shooting you with nerf fam balls all this time!
Hidden Body, Arrows, and the Storyteller's Staff. I took one look at those Bloodborne-belonging Tall Heaps of Nightmare Fuel and said "yep, gonna give these the stealth treatment."
I didn't 'want' to be a stealth archer on my first playthrough, but then I said "I will farm for the staff once. One farm kill of the Storyteller is all you get, Fate." And then I got the Staff on my first actual try.
After Plat'ing DeS, DS1, and DS2, this game knows me and my ninja/stealth/cheese/scrub tendencies too well. :/
Eventually i just cast hidden body and spook and walked past them
I know a whole bunch'a no-hit runs that gotta be redone now.
5 minutes left of lunch break at work how are you going to spend it?
Me:
I hate this area so much that I just wear cat ring and hidden body and rush through it every time.
Huh, I dont think that I've ever been hit by the grab, and I've gone through this area dozens of times.
i always thought it was the mist....
So the fog they create doesn't do anything by itself? I would have guessed I'm safe if I don't touch it.
I fear no boss. But that thing, it scares me.
Went back to Elder ring for a few days start playing Dark Souls 3 today and I remember having so much more health I could not figure this out
But wait, I thought the jailer's brand blocked estus usage.
I figured out by myself that it was active only when they look at you, but i was expecting something like a constant cone shaped hitbox, instead of them just throwing a bunch of small hitboxes ar you lmao
very interesting breakdown of an interesting enemy
I'm pretty sure they opted for this way of implementing this effect by the engine limitations. But oh boy this looks like spaghetti code
Thank you Amir :3
The machine gun spheres are how some games use player detection, like N64's sneaking sections.
I've found that knocking them down with a running leap attack works pretty well, but still lose a bit of health. Are they emitting all the time once in pursuit mode, and once knocked down, are firing them straight up (aka, is it tied to the facing direction of their torso)?
Jailers: how the fuck do they work?
Try to poise through the jailer's Soldering Iron attack with perseverance.
Always wondered how these jailers were draining my health
wait, does this mean a no hit run is only technically doable if you don't get hit by a single one of those orbs?
I've thought about this when watching happy hob run before, and I would guess that since there is not a visual indication sometimes(Like I said in the top comment), and because u dont get stunned or damaged it can't be considered a hit. Same thing with poise rolls probably.