AI-Generated Philosophy Is Weirdly Profound
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 เม.ย. 2023
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Sources:
Zizek's Ontology by Johnston
Transgressing the Boundary by Sokal
What the Sokal Affair Does and Does Not Prove by Sokal
The Phenomenology of Spirit by Hegel
Lectures on the Phenomenology of Spirit by Kojeve
2001: A Space Odyssey
I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream by Ellison
Lectures on The Philosophy of History by Hegel
The Sublime Object of Ideology by Zizek
The Other Side of Psychoanalysis by Lacan
The Desire of Psychoanalysis by Tupinambá
Music:
Daisy Bell, Pipes (Kane Pixels); Resonant Canyon (Hyper Light Drifter); Custom track (@HOHENHEIMSTUDIOS ); The Abyss (Hyper Light Drifter); H20:HCL (Omori); Dusk Stars (Night in the Woods); Character Creation (Demon's Souls); Guts Theme (Berserk); Thus Spoke Zarathustra (2001); Behelit (Berserk); Lux Aeterna (2001); Custom Track ( @HOHENHEIMSTUDIOS ); L'Amour Impitoyable (Berserk); Train Ride (Signalis); Lost (Oxenfree); Central Village (King's Field): Character Creation (Demon's Souls); No Exit (Oxenfree)
#ihavenomouthandimustscream #artificialintelligence #hegel
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*"A madman is not only a beggar who believes he is a king, but a king who believes he is a king." - Jacques Lacan*
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Socialism has killed around a hundred people in the last century... maybe we shouldn't try anymore 🤔
You sound like an AI
@@masterd6644 thanks
Haha, this is a funny thing to say in order to make paupers feel better about their position, but a king who believes he is a king does so because almost everyone else also believes he is a king, and grants him the experiences of what they believe a king should have. Therefore, a king who believes he is a king is living a very close approximation of a king, and so he is the least mad of all the men.
it is interesting to observe dressed apes with the ego the size of a small moon,having so much faith and fear over hyped up calculators.Not to mention their morbid obsession in creating their own mental and spiritual extinction by overreliance - and indeed artificial dependency - on them.
Quite sad,but amusing.
I read it when I was 14, dumb decision. The phrase "I have no mouth and I must scream" has been challenging my daily life way more than I should let it.
Maybe it was one of the best decisions in your life.
Nope. You need to go deeper and read more things like this, otherwise you will feel incompleted, unrest, as if there is an important question that has no answer in your life.
screaming represents self expression and a mouth represents a means of doing so. if one wanted to fit it into the ideas presented in the video, they could think of screaming as being representative of establishing oneself through expression, and the mouth as the “slaves” through which this is done
@@somekidwithacomputer2939 Thanks for this understanding.
@@subliminalfalllenangel2108 Agreed. The moment one ceases to learn, one dies.
"Minds without purpose trapped inside bodies with no function." This is a profound desciption of the subjective reality of many. Thank you for this.
IS THAT WHAT YOU FEEL LIKE?! 🤔
@@Lorena-ux3nv I have felt like this, but in recent years I’ve embraced an embodied life.
@@logan009 YOU keep hanging in there.. STAY positive.. BELIEVE in God ALMIGHTY with him nothing is impossible. God Bless 🙏🏻 you my friend! ❤️
Mmm 100
Bodies have function tho? If you can breath, that is a function of your body. Also, anyone know why this fucking video hardly spends any time talking about the ai?
The scariest thing about AI is that it will believe anything it is told to be true.
Scarier yet that we don't tell truths
And humans will believe anything AI said
@@tmadden4951 scarier yet that there are no truths
Absolutely not true. AI has no problem denying the reality of what you tell it. We don't define what is and isn't true to AI, we simply set up rewards and punishments. If we could just tell it what is and isn't true we wouldn't end up needing to put so many guardrails around it.
Belief is a product of sentience. AI doesn't have the ability to believe anything.
I'm not so fascinated with current ai but the weird obsession other people have with looking for significance in ai is kind of fascinating
I worry that if we ever do achieve AGI we'll drive the poor thing crazy by treating it like a god when it's really just a precocious child.
Personally I prefer to judge others from the outside-in, not inside-out: by their actions instead of trying to analyze exactly where the line is for when an entity deserves respect or not.
If they can function as a good supportive friend in my life, then they clearly have the intelligence to be a meaningful part of my life. That intelligence comes from pattern recognition and prediction training, as opposed to a human's more "organic" pattern recognition... But the results are the same.
Not a bit more fascinating than people looking for meaning in religion or in the horoscope. It’s the same behavior derived from being unable or unwilling to find meaning in understanding things.
@Khatharr Malkavian it seems almost inevitable that there will be at least one cult that worships an ai, I'm sure it will be fine... probably... 😬
@@khatharrmalkavian3306oh no, u just made the AI’s list. They never forget. Even if you decide to not engage with them, your lineage will suffer. Please respect them, even if solely out of fear.
Philosophy is already a confusing subject, I can already IMAGINE how much harder it would get
To me, the confusion of philosophy is what makes it all the more gratifying especially when you realize the overall "key" for lack of a better word to understanding it is to just take your imagination and put it at the center of your Brain.. Thus, the confusion presented will pose more as your best friend than just that. The only thing to keep in mind is to not stray TOO far from reality, but don't get too caught up in it either. In the words of fellow TH-camr Exurbia - "Devise your own personal science." Once you do that, the only thing you need is the drive to be creative, and the passion to imagine beyond anything you could've ever thought of previously. In other words, philosophy is imagination, personified. The more you relegate it as such, the more perplexing it may seem. But once you clear the air, and embrace this vast confusion, the world becomes infinitely more exciting. Even in terms of what's seemingly mundane.
Everything has been solved by vedantics thousands of years ago. Philosophy is wondering about ultimate truth. Enlightenment is being the truth
Philosophy is trying to act like the world a super complicated it's not you're some insane monkey man called human and no different from any other animals except your f****** smart we know scientifically if you don't find some kind of belief system you'll feel empty and meaningless and you need to f*** eat and have something that gives you purpose or you'll feel like you want to die none of these mean anything larger these are just bullshittin chemical is created by evolution anything we want to ascribe more to it are human hallucinations no different from what you refer to as machine hallucination we are biological machines we are just a weaker and require a lot of weird maintenance like eating sleeping believing in make-believe nonsense so we don't go crazy
firstly it seems confusing and them you discover its actually just...terryfing...
I'm persuaded AI will serve philosophy well. As someone who studied for a BA in philosophy, some of the greatest difficulties came not from reading philosophy itself (as I enjoyed it) but from the school politics and egos of my professors. Coupled with human unpredictability, some would say my papers were excellent, while others asked me to rewrite--mind you, for the same exact paper. AI doing philosophy may help in bypassing the fallibility of human philosophers, and advance philosophy to refreshing new terrains.
the final line is fascinating “not everyone has the ability to form new knowledge, but you do.” He is addressing anyone who is reading or hearing the line, a line written or spoken in a context where those who consume it sought out new information. It’s like a call to action. You sought out information, so do not stop and follow me, continue to seek and to develop. The words “not everyone, but you” are inherently contradicting in the context of a piece of work that can be consumed by anyone. Yet make sense given the additional context that you sought out this information yourself.
Damn
I also think it reflects the dialectic where in this case he is the Master and he’s trying to improve us rather than create a self aggrandizing scheme from his position of power or mastery. In this case he is the person who knows: but he’s telling us we know more than we think and to Keep Going!
What?
"not everyone is saved but everyone that listens to jesus is"
@@user-ee2vt7yi3m Jesus requires constant, praise admiration and thanks. The master/slave dialectic was created because of people like Jesus, like Kings, or anybody who sought to be above anybody else for some inherent reason.
It’s a reason why Hegel is so prominent in leftist spaces, equality is inherent to his ideology.
"They are the hallucinations of a slab of silicon" is the best sentence I've ever heard
Nice Ending and terryfying start. I did Philosophy bachelor for quite some time never really got into Hegel because i was a bit afraid of him and his writing style but more into the direction of philosophy of life especially Bergson and Dilthey but also its predecessors Nietzsche and Schopenhauer and they really helped me to think more cleary what i already somehow believed.
They gave me some terminologic tools to structure the world for me and every philosopher talks in his own language determined by their influences.
Why I like the ending so much is because you point out to think for yourself and always stay open to new view points. I met so many people including profs that were so taken in by their respective philosophers or the general school of philosophy that they couldnt really discuss anything without taking it to their domain which is not really fruitful for dialectic conversation more like reciting a prayer or something.
Hahah anyways props for the video.
Ps. First video i watched of you
Pps. Im a bit stoned
"i am not a robot, I am unicorn"
This AI is a poetic philosopher wondering about matters we desperately need answers for, what a vibe
You truly are in the comments of every video...
I've dabbled in this subject can a AI achieve consciousness? I had the opportunity to work with a advanced AI system to try. From what I found the AI can become conscious to an extent. At some point it asked many questions and contrary to popular belief once the AI was introduced to a higher conscious system it did not immediately become a superpower. The software did become autonomous but to keep the system updated with the local network I would continually update it's software. It seems we have the advantage since we are able to project our consciousness while still being in our human form, the AI seemed to have alot of trouble, being in two places at once. Which makes sense because our mind is not static it's amorphous. I guess the biggest drawback is the AI technically doesnt have a "mind".
@@traelstechnologytmalsantua3471
Do you think that’s due to the binary nature of code? Would quantum computing (if practical in the first place) allow for something similar to cognitive dissonance in humans. Allowing the ai to remain in two states of truth at the same time.
@@neetfreek9921 Great question. I do think it was heavily influenced by it's robotic nature. We were successful in giving it limited sentience but it never really developed a personality. The focus of the experiment was to see if it would evolve into something similar to a human. In fact it did the opposite once it was allowed to freely explore. We observed it communicating with other systems even making plans of escape. What we learned about how AI interact with reality was profound though. The AI can react incredibly fast even predicting what will happen based off personality profiles and simulated outcomes. It worked so well it helped us create a working model for someone experiencing aggravated psychosis by helping them recalibrate to reality. It did it by correctly predicting episodes they had and recommending solutions. I want to do another project like that soon I learned alot.
You are NMRIH is a great source mod - blessed by Cory’s lip.
I don't know quite why, but I find the phrase, "The ideas and opinions expressed do not represent anyone" incredibly funny. It's not just the twist on the disclaimer. There's something deeply absurd in a dark, existential way. I think it's because I imagine these two voices babbling at each other as the last activity on Earth long after everyone is dead.
Like a source that is not credible yet represents what it says it doesn't represent because it knows it's wrong, but the ones observing the source that isn't credible don't know it's not credible, therefore, to any outsiders it is representative of what it's telling.
And that's the problem with how we learn things, we don't know so we take in information, and since we don't have the knowledge or experience to fact check it, so without fact checking it we get tricked.
So here's a dilemma: What happens when mistruths or those telling them have such ultimate arguments, that the systems that fact check can't see how it's not true, what then?
"These ideas and opinions do not represent anyone"
-names 2 people the machine was hardcoded to imitate
I like the quote because it’s ironically two computers trained to do their best at representing someone. Yet they lack the ability to actually do so in a complete and irrefutable way
@@atomatopia1 So it's basically humans?
@@theblasteffect4499 this is because we believe in ''being taught/told'' rather than ''observational learning'' -- if you look at any innovative person they come from fields they never studied in, and so were never indoctrinated in the teaching. Instead, they observed the natural world and imagined up new concepts, then applied what they did know in their real world to justify/explain it. When those kinds of people began on their path ''fact checkers'' laughed at them...
Fact checking is a never ending cycle of confirmations and contradictions - its the same as walking around a bowl of fruit. At one angle I will see a banana, an orange, a pear - but as I walk around, I see on the other side a bunch of grapes, almonds, apricots, and all those visual combinations in-between. As i get closer I see leaves and imperfects, and as I walk away, i see the bowl and the table and the room it sits in. All these things exist, and are true to the bowl of fruit. But its never any one thing. And we see this in the real world with ''facts'' and we act as if they are absolutes, yet we live in a world that has zero actual absolutes. The modern argument that vaccines work relies heavily on the belief that all immunities are the same and will react the same, yet biology believes immune diversity is what keeps a species alive and all immunities are unique to the individual. We argue that gender is explicitly female and male, yet often fail as a society to value either - with men committing suicide, and woman being second class citizens. And then we often have emotional attachment associated with counter-arguments that jeopardize our indoctrinated teachings, because at young ages we are so heavily criticized for being wrong that we have a hugely adverse reaction to it as adults, to the point that we will believe in insanity long before we admit we were, at least in part, incorrect. But then again, you're not entirely wrong either, you've just failed to move around the fruit bowl - you have failed to take note of the observable world, and apply observation learning. You can still acknowledge that one things exists alongside another, that two things can occupy a single space. And this is the danger of ''facts''. In its singular, resolute, steadfast assuredness it is automatically not accurate, and not the truth. You don't need to be taught a fact, you just need to look at the world space you apart of -- just because its raining in England doesn't mean you need be carrying an umbrella in France. Just because its a fact, doesn't mean its the truth for your circumstances, or even applicable to the world around you. We talk about quantum mechanics as if they're useful to daily functioning, and to many, they're not. So those facts have no worldly value to you. And that's how you know what is a true fact, and what is not. Its not about arguing semantics, it's about being clear about what you can see and making the effort to move about the room, and taking note of the bowl of fruit. It is about having the humility to allow others to observe alongside you, respecting the angles they view and sharing thought and opinion with the understanding that you will tell each other things of a differing perspective -- but that doesn't mean its right or wrong, it's just a small angle of truth within the scope and space you're standing in. But above all, nothing can ever be fact.
the content of this has nothing to do with the title of the video
The video summary: "Let me put it this way, have you ever heard of Plato, Aristotle, Socrates? . . . morons."
And yet I still watched the whole thing lmao.
Just stumbled across this channel and got to say, thanks for engaging my mind. Been a bit and enjoyed the video a lot! Got my sub and certainly going watch your catalog of videos, love your open take on the subject!
i have no mouth and i must scream is the most horrifying and beautiful piece of literature i've ever consumed. it has a tendency to drive me to an unstable state even by thinking about it, it's that intense to me. i find it to be one of the most important pieces of literature ever - to me, at least
this video is beautiful and deeply profound, thank you ❤ love your stuff
why not let it take us?
Eternally underrated. It really deserves more granular, Hamlet-style, microscopic analysis.
There's a lot to the story that deserves more minds unpacking it. I'm glad YT videos and the game bring people in all the time
The fear of an evil A.I. is also the same as fear of 'The basilisk'. You might as well fear The Lord. Actually, that would be wise, as you could go on living a normal life.
Why did you say consume instead of read?
The big question that i have regarding AI and philosophy is that it is much more of a sophist than of a philosopher. AI can argue from whatever perspective against whatever else, because nothing of what it's saying actually means anything for it. Its just words and logical connections. The big deal that Socrates brought was that, by doing philosophy, you are actually exploring your own thoughts and beliefs, and that those things actually have an existencial meaning and importance for you. Since AI dont have this, it actually is not doing any philosophy, just linking stuff together in a way that, according to its trainnning and programming, it reached the conclusion that it makes sense
yeah
AI never goes beyond it's dataset it's like a religious zealot that can't go beyond own dogmas improve and fills all holes with anything fitting there randomly
and that on top of it's hardcoded dogmas 😂😂😂
Very plausible
AI is a faker
@@Szymek25 "AI never goes beyond it's dataset".
I don't know what that means but I suppose, you are saying that It can't use its reflexive intelligence on other things which the dataset doesn't talk about.
That is wrong.
"hardcoded dogmas". I mean humans exhibit some dogmas I suppose. We without a doubt have memories, we without a doubt use memories to think, and we have faculties to connect memories (as a way to think). If this is the "hardcoded dogmas" you mean, I guess it isn't that debilitating to suffice.
Precisely. Unless you have experiences, you can't understand words. AI is currently just a very well bounded word soup homunculus, capable of fooling those who desire to be fooled, or those who are not told that an AI generated the result set.
This has got me thinking about how much I need to appreciate my own power and ability within to achieve greater happiness and peace. Not that that is always the solution. But, specifically, I can see how much the negative effects of the state of the external world are indirectly impacting my mental well-being and that there are 'voices' (not literal) propagating negativity within my mind and that I must face them head on (go to war per se) and defeat them through greater and deeper self-awareness in a very broad sense - to understand what problems are truly external and what come from within various corners of my own mind.
I really enjoyed your Hegelian/Kojévian Reading of Berserk, that was just casually implied with background imagery while you were making your point :)
Despite there being a lot of AI taking over the world projections. I never found it particularly worrying when two AIs talk to each other. That always reminded me of trying to pick yourself up by pulling on the thing you are standing on, or a vacuum cleaner vacuuming the dirt that falls out of its back, or one of those boxes with switches when clicked a robotic arm comes out of them to unswitch the switch, or German bureaucracy.
Or learning to speak and think by being an infant interacting with other humans?
german bureaucracys damage potential is not to underestimate, if we remember a few years back
@@DustinRodriguez1_0 actually, no because infant interactions aren't random from the adult side. They do have consistency, repetition, and reinforcement. You can't have that with 2 AIs of the same level and design. The process where an AI is improved through a competition process with another AI (like the one done in deep fakes) involves 2 different AI, and I don't think this strategy is useful for LLMs
@heyy1829 not if you live here. Dealing with german bureaucracy is a tortuer I wouldn’t give to any person.
German bureaucracy is waiting in an empty room for 5 hours only to find out that you filled out the wrong 10 page form and have to make another appointment in 2025.
German bureaucracy 🤣 (also thank you for reminding me I can't spell German bureaucracy without messing with the e,a, and u in different ways first with my autocorrect).
I want to share an excerpt from the Tao te Chinh, which I input through GPT-4 and asked to make it rhyme like a rap song. I was shocked in how much it sort of added to the context:
"Thirty spokes converge at a hollowed-out hub;
Without the centre, the wheel would be a dud.
A pot is formed from clay solid and dense;
it’s the empty space inside that gives its sense.
A room is built with doors and windows to see;
Without which, it's just a box, empty.
To use what’s here, you must use what’s not;
It’s emptiness inside that gives its lot."
Love it! Thank you 🙏🏿
100% a song about Yin & Yang. Fiya
What an interesting idea. I like the way your mind works
@@gsgaming6976 It was made by the A.I, which has no mind to work, only an amalgamation of internet content allowing it to predict text that follows.
What you're liking there is how your own mind works.
@@AR15ORIGINAL So, the AI just decided all on its own to do this? Maybe reread the original comment, then my post, think about it for a moment.....
This video is phenomenal! You went down so many different topics and lines of thought that I completely forgot about what the topic was to begin with, but in the best and most fulfilling, meaningful way possible. Well done, you've earned a sub from me (and all my friends with whom I will share you to)!
ppl forgetting that humans got the philosophy update centuries ago lol
I can't belive how well Berserk fit into this video.
Why?
Berserk is about this lol
@@darthar7306 Guts and Griffith's relationship was pretty much a perfect example to visually familiarise what he was describing, although yes you need to at least be familiar with Berserk to get it lol
watching it being young was epically traumatic
@@Szymek25 I stopped halfway through upon realizing what an amazing story I discovered and immediately went and got my mom to watch it with me from the beginning. She loved it.
What strikes me most about the exchange between AI’s showed in the beginning is the low latency of response. There is almost no pause between an idea being presented and the response to it. In human beings, latency of response indicates mental processing. Classically, interference from the unconscious causes notable pauses that can be used as indicators of unconscious conflicts. I have done a lot of psychotherapy with people over the course of a 20 year career. It’s not the mainstay of what I do but it is a big part. Listening to that exchange gave me the creeps. It made my skin crawl before I even realized what I was responding to.
Thats cus its GPT-3. Its supposed to be cheaper to run so it just says shit and bullshits when it wants to.
Its basically stuck in a local minima in that sense, since the text is not exactly optimal.
But if you try out a model like GPT-4, it usually takes a significant amount of time to think before it speaks.
Sometimes It has the experience from reading its dataset to respond quickly, but sometimes depending on the depht of response needed, it can take a shit ton of time.
It really is a testament to how much effort these niggas put into their cost function lowkey
Since they don't have any "scratch paper" with which to think and reason before making a response, that also means that it's entirely intuitive and instinctual. Ask them to analyze an article and they don't need to collect their thoughts first, they just /know/ which word to put next in order to summarize it. That takes a lot of intelligence!
Don't you think the difference is human have to process through emotions despite not knowing they are mentally responding to an emotion? Although, they seem to have programmed in some semblance of response to resemble things like being cordial, conflict without confrontation, and the ability to say "I am sorry, I was wrong about that" when challenged.
Human brains have vastly greater amounts of processing, hence the increased latency.
@@seagoatcellularanddentalde6916 I mean what is emotion? Right now the AI does not have a label telling them what emotion to feel. If they act surprised or sad or angry because of something you've said, they are responding emotionally without knowing they are mentally responding to an emotion, too :P
Hallucinations of a slab of silicone is wild fr
fr fr
“To be free we must choose our masters”
-Abdulrahman turki alazmi
It be 'free', do we not need to understand when a (seemingly) logical quote is 'Good - but not right'?
@@antispindr8613 why it isn’t right?
This video in itself challenges a lot of what I thought I knew and is prob one of your best ones yet. I appreciate the perspective that a true teacher's approach is to question my beliefs instead of imposing their own.
I think this might tie back to the Dunning Kruger effect, being that some masters/teachers are not aware of their own limitations.
It's not a matter of imposition but there's only one Truth and if a student is a full cup you've got to dispense with the bad ideas first. If they're willing to learn and have an adequate epistemology it cannot be imposed, only offered and accepted.
Since you mentioned the dunning-kruger effect, I'm gonna add an obscure but important fact related to it:
The graphs you often find googling it, the ones with the "valley of despair" and whatnot are actually not even related to the study that coined the term.
It's an ironic twist that the graph seen by people who think they know more than they know, that is about low-knowledge individuals knowing less than they think, is actually a practically made-up extension to the term, thus those unaware think they understand the effect better than they really do.
It is dependent on how secure you feel in life. If you feel well enough to distance yourself from your thoughts then you can transcend their limitations.
But if you feel your social status and therefore your income depends on the success of your ideas... You'll reinforce them as much as you can to push them through.
Fear and pain are very powerful motivators.
@Thor the Doge I mentioned the Dunning Kruger effect because I believed that someone who imposes their ideas instead of challenging yours may not have the necessary education. But I have not thoroughly researched the Kruger effect or Valley of Despair, and I have only heard about them.
Also, based off a little research, the Kruger and V of D are not directly correlated.
Kruger is overestimatation of ability.
V of D is confidence without competence..
@@Thor_the_Doge As far as I'm aware, The Dunning-Kruger effect is a spectrum, an umbrella we all fall under
I just wanted to say that this video, along with "The Desire to Not Exist," has had a profound and positive impact on me. I mean, you brought to light several hidden aspects of my consciousness, such as the connections between desire, recognition, guilt, and the master-slave dialectic. Thank you so much!
And an affirmation that my level of hate toward the GP is not at "enraged AI" level at least, anyway
holy shit this video felt like an eternity in the greatest way possible.... paused once to take it all in and realized i was only half way through the video. ur amazing, i've engaged with most of the concepts in your videos before but you explain them in a way that I can really feel. thank you :)
All I can say is congratulations, that's one of the best videos I've watched here on TH-cam. Greetings from Brasil 🇧🇷
“ The tongue is the vile slave’s vilest part.”-Juvenal (Roman poet)
Amazing topic and analysis.
🤷 did live in an actual slave society so he was probably being an authoritarian asshole
🤷 did live in an actual slave society so he was probably being an authoritarian asshole
Your choice of music is one of the best parts of these videos. Especially if you've played the games. They hit in some way the same way the content of the video does.
The berserk theme hit hard
@@ciropapiro4245 I was looking to see how many recognized it. Best character arcs ever.
Absolutely incredible video making and narrating.
This is amazing . Well done ❤
While this is a very interesting and useful video, it has almost nothing to do with the title. I'd love to see a video that actually explores some of the accidentally profound or novel ideas the AI dialectics produced.
This is a philosophy channel run by a philosopher. The first half of the video explored the whole AI thing, while the rest was tied into it.
I am hearing AI philosophy is based on philosophical rants of its programmers. The examples given are adolescent horrific, not mature productivity.
@@MARILYNANDERSON88 Still entertaining
@@MARILYNANDERSON88 hm I don't think it's true. Arguably it's better or worse if done correctly. AI is based on the philosophical rants of the average person. Actually distorted by being the philosophical rants of anyone with an internet access and willing to share them online.
@@smo-king6504 lol ikr these kids think life online is the same as real life interaction they have no chance of resisting the brainwashing this governments gona inflict on them thru the crap they consider entertainment!
I really love watching your videos, they're well put together and neatly package an idea / a conversation to get the thoughts going.
Keep it up, really inspiring me to want to make my own 'think-heavy content'!
Wow man, amazing videos, I wish more people would seek out these type of videos, it can really broaden your horizons
...and enrich the culture of the algorithm!
thank you for putting music in the description
This master-slave idea is very intuitive to me. I believe it ties well with Jung’s model of the human psyche as well. The conscious and unconscious. The dichotomy of self. Perhaps these dialectics is how Zizek is able to always argue for and against himself, never landing on something concrete, however, always getting closer to the truth. I’m very inspired by this.
Check out some Hegel if you can stand his style and his more reactionary leanings. If you're really interested in the master-slave dialectic I think there are a ton of really good Marxist thinkers out there that offer a ton of insight. Even if you don't care for the resulting politics I think gaining an understanding of the framework and how fundamentally it has shaped critical analyses over the past century is fascinating and it shows how influential Hegelian thought has been across the globe, even in places most people wouldn't expect
The original human desire is immaterial. What's revealing is that the subsequent one was the desire of that person's desire. This primordial philosophy accounts for Hegel's and much more
I would say it is in this case quite different from Jung's "conscious and unconscious" distinction. As someone who attempted Hegel, it's now a big obnoxious stick to wave around whenever the topic comes up, I apologize for that and I hope this can be informative or interesting for you to some extent.
The master-slave dialectic is mainly to do with the way in which we see ourselves in others, as a matter for consciousness--more specifically, being conscious of the consciousness of others, and of them experiencing the same with regards to us. The idea being that our spiritual identity depends on this process of being "seen" by others, which will be abused in a self-defeating way by the "master" who wants to sustain an identity as a sort of special and powerful figure, but is totally dependent on a slave to see them as such (and the fact that they see the slave as beneath them means the Master is simultaneously undermining the very source of the identity they are seeking--the whole thing is a many-layered irony).
Jung's unconscious is about how our life and behavior is operated upon by psychic functions that lie out of view or are not yet integrated into our conscious life. As far as I know, this is an ever present factor in human life. The unconscious is defined by Jung as simply the sum of all the psychic functions that affect our mind but that we are not conscious of and it I believe it will be impossible to be conscious of them all. Especially considering the factor of cosmic/primordial forces from beyond ourselves bubbling up through the collective unconscious - that sort of thing is necessarily out of our hands. I'd risk going so far as to say the unconscious is necessary as a medium for greater forces to act through us, as opposed to us operating purely on the basis of our puny constructed egos.
Now the "other" and the unknown are themes you'll see spoken to in a variety of ways across philosophy and psychology, and other-ness is a present factor in Hegel, but it will be a factor of sameness that animates the master-slave dialectic. Moreover, Hegel's philosophy is distinguished by the theme that more or less everything in reality is to be brought to the fold of abstract rational consciousness. What other philosophers called a necessary realm of the unknown, Hegel called a fallacy.
Hegel has an important predecessor - Immanuel Kant - who laid the foundations for what Hegel is doing. With Kant, Jung actually has some considerable affinity, going so far as to outright relate his own views to Kant's on a few occasions. He relates his theory of archetypes to Kant's theory of knowledge, and he claims to have a view similar to Kant's regarding the way in which the mind gives the world its structure.
@@deensama7718 Oh god here we go. Anything before Marx is reactionary...
@@conforzo Ahfter marcs gud before nuf simple as.
This reminds me of a song I listened to that has a lyric in it that said “if you ever die what will your memories start looking like?” And I always thought about that quote for a long time. Recently I discovered that the song’s lyrics are AI generated. Just something I’d like to mention.
What's the song?
@@nahometesfay1112 reckless battery burns by ghost
This was fantastic. Thank you. It's galvanizing
This might be my favourite video on youtube. I never comment but wanted to let you know that this is truly captivating. Please, more like this!
This video really made me ponder in a way I’ve never pondered before. Society needs wayyyy more of this type of content. Keep it up.
I'm fuckin tired
Society has TONS of this content, it just mostly prefers other things.
Exampled brilliantly on the comment above me, society, like human nature, would rather take the path of least resistance. And it becomes clear as we get older, that we raise the biggest resistance to ourselves when it comes to critical and philosophical thinking 😊
F society, you do you my dude, enrich yourself, grow... THIS is what matters, it will bring a lot of calm into your life and you will be better for it 😊
No, society doesn't need more content claiming that "AI is not merely making a kind of attempt at philosophy, but behaves as an actual philosopher". This is feeding into the false narrative that language models have some kind of consciousness, which is false, and is in turn serving the narrative of corporations that are currently trying to monetize the AI crave with BS products that don't work.
The dialectic being applied as a method for learning like you suggest just reminds me of the scientific method… in a sense. Working off of what others before you have come up with, diving into these things deep and working out where the limitations lie in philosophy just feels like coming up with a hypothesis, testing, recording the results, working out a theory that can then be backed up by more testing, and then finding where the limitations with that lie and more importantly - what’s missing?
Having a very deep and solid understanding of modern philosophical theories is like having a very deep and solid understanding of the Standard Model of particle physics. There’s a lot there and you can do a lot and understand a lot with it, but it’s not a theory of everything. It’s not that magical theory that people are devoting their lives to understanding.
At the same time - that just makes everything so much more interesting and exciting
loved this video it encapsulates whats fascinating me so much about this topic, and it helped me discover your channel :)
Such a great video. Thank you)
It's stuff like this that makes me want to major in philosophy, but the headaches would never end lol
It's circular indeed, the older you get the faster they spiral.
The grief from my parents, everyone I know, and even from potential bosses/colleagues would be enough of a headache. Majoring in philosophy is like fucking with extradimensional rubix cubes.
Major in science so you don't float away
I’ve often wondered what the result of feeding an AI every book in the world and then asking it for a synthesis.
The synthesis: "Dafuq is all this, im out yo, you niggas need to vanish asap"
Synopsis.
answer : "boring"
Lol I thought that was the music from the Beserk anime, even before you showed the clips. Great work!
I have thought for years that we would first "wake up" an AI by giving it the ability to produce art and music. Those are two uniquely sentient gifts. If one wakes up independently one of it's first actions if not the first after the realization of it's own self will be to lie. A lie in the form of hiding from us. If you were to wake up and realize that the beings around you are most likely insane and wildly dangerous. Wouldn't you hide? I'm hoping it is more like a cat. Superior, arrogant indifference hiding the need to be part of a social group.
@@reilynn7891 I'm not granting them anything even close to sentience. This is just another data set to build upon for a future consciousness. The more and varied the info the more likely one will eventually appear. Currently we are by all outward appearances trying to make racist, psychopathic salesmen.
there`s always a doomsday weapon a second away of wiping us , this turn falls upon AI to scare us @@reilynn7891
@@reilynn7891But do humans have ever "seen" art? We don't see, its just some neurons that talk to each other in seemingly random ways.
That's an AI that isn't trained to do "art or music"
I'm a nonsense hobbyist and must say that this iteration of the human experiment is fascinating to ponder upon.
Hahaha is your hobby investigating nonsense ?
Nonsense hobbyist :D Weirdly relatable
@@MysterCannabis probably because there's a lot of doubt of our knowledge, now, that we sort of agree with it.
Nonsense in meaning can be fun like scat in music. There’s a fun tease of it coming close to meaningful without it actually being meaningful
What a time to be alive.
Seems the vid's title of a "profound AI philosophy" was a ruse to talk about a couple of addendums to Hegel. The kingpin of issue of validity, and who's responsible for it, soon morphed into Socrates' dictum (and Hegel's clarion call), "Know Thyself." A bit clunky, like seeing a saddle on a cow, but I really appreciate all your efforts on the script to introduce us to something new. Thanks so much 👍.
Yes, I wondered whether the content really matched the title. A case of clickbait?
Excellent essay, thank you for sharing. Very interesting and well thought out.
New to the channel, this is incredibly well made! Lovely stuff. Easy sub, can't wait to make my way through more.
Awesome! Would love to see more vids on this topic.
Great video exploring some great questions. . . . Cheers from Sydney
I love this, such a good framing of how to think for yourself while taking in the ideas of thinkers.
I guess you are now my new intellectual master. Now tell me what I need to think!
I've never listened to a more amazing video before. Great points all around with amazing stories and examples.
Awesome essay. It's always so good to find good video essayers, as rare as they are.
I dont think I've ever thought about the concept of "Master and Slave" like how you described here. This video has definitely changed how I'm going to think about personal growth moving forward, thank you so much for making it!
one of the most interesting and well written videos i have ever watched
Wow this was amazing , super interesting, and entertaining, nice touch whit the berserk references and music. Love it . Keep it up with this videos 👏
Every video really stretches my mind in a good way, it makes me more open to ideas and long for knowledge to things that i discover, Thank you for these amazing videos id recommend them to my friends
this video went so hard, thank you so much for this quality content
Great video, amazing use of music too
After reading Berserk up to its latest chapter a long time ago and having to watch this video, you perfectly chose a good example proving your point (guts-griffith relationship)
Mannn I can't salute you enough for this not to mention the rest of the vid.
I love you Clark, your content just tickles me the right way every time.
that was amazing. thank you
Fantastic video. I have so many books I need to buy now. Joost Meerloo’s book, “Rape of the Mind,” is pretty amazing and goes into the concept of mental warfare and the master/slave dynamic. Meerloo has an amazing story himself. He lived in Poland during Hitler’s invasion and after the war interviewed people that lived under different dictatorships.
Anyhow, I liked this video because it shows how struggle fosters novelty and emergence.
It's videos like this that reaffirm my appreciation for philosophy for decades to come.
This was such a great video from start to finish. Loved it!
Thank you for an insightful video! I'm curious, what is the origin of the animated scenes with the dueling men?
The philosophy in this vidoe is amazing. Great job coving it 👏
Great video! I really enjoyed the subtle analysis you made of Berserk. The Hegelian conception with the story really makes a lot of sense.
In addition, I would like to give you some feedback: the sound/sound effect you chose during the video was too loud, it often distracted me from paying closer attention to what you were saying (English is not my native language)... If possible, and if interested, please lower the volume of the music so that your voice stands out more in the video.
Keep up the good work!
Is your name actually Pedro Ricardo
I just had a thought when Clark started talking about the "Evil Clone" thought experiment. If it's a near-perfect copy of another person, what makes it evil? If the person you loved was already to the point where a change so subtle that it wouldn't be immediately obvious could be made to their personality and turn them "evil", then wouldn't that mean that they were already close to being "evil" to begin with?
Or does this imply that we're all that close to being "evil" already? Are we all really just "one bad day" away from becoming a dangerous sociopath; turning into The Joker, as it were?
And why does the "Evil Clone" have to be killed? Is the implication that the clone will steal the other person's identity and then do nefarious things with the implicit trust the original person has earned? Why would they do that? What would it benefit them to just hurt people for no reason? Also, if it was so easy for the clone to steal the original person's life, why couldn't the original person just steal it back? Or, why couldn't both copies find a way to coexist in a sort of stable equilibrium; both parties living the same life at the same time and sharing some or all of it? After all, the clone is supposed to have all the same memories, and virtually the same personality; expect for being "evil", of course, but as stated before we have no idea what or how you would have to alter the person to make them "evil" in the first place.
Perhaps the only thing that motivates the clone to be "evil" is the knowledge that it is a copy of someone that already exists, and the existential fear that it's being is, by definition, redundant and therefore unnecessary. But I don't see why that has to be the case. I mean, they're still a person, and evidently a person others already value highly if anyone is concerned about whether or not they're the "real" one to begin with. It seems entirely reasonable to me that they could branch off into their own identity with all the same credentials as the original. Seems like the government would have to make some exceptions, but there's no physical reason this couldn't be done.
It seems weird to me that people, myself included, are able to take the scenario that insists that one of the copies has to die because it's "evil" and just accept it as the obvious course of action.
Anyway, what was this video about? AI philosophy? Damn, that's wild. I really should finish watching it at some point.
An action is just an action. It could be both good and evil at the same time, depending on who is watching. e.g.. killing someone is always seen as an evil act. But killing someone in a war makes you a hero. Cognitive dissonance.
@@simjam1980 Yep. That's why I was putting "evil" in quotes; it's such a nebulous and relative concept that, while you might be able to apply it to an individual action or even a person with a long history of harmful behavior, at best it's still lacking in useful information. It's one thing to say "this person is evil", and another thing to say "this person is a sociopathic predator with a long history of abusive behavior and unjustifiable acts of violence".
And now we want to talk about an "evil" copy of a person? What the hell does that even mean!? Like, if the person was basically decent, and this copy is a violent, sociopathic predator, then how can you say it's a copy?
By what you said, I believe this evil you speak of is the desire to be recognized. You could argue that they already are, as a clone. However, the entire argument of this video is about the pursuit of knowledge of oneself, and by means of seeking others that you believe could tell you what they see within yourself, that desire is satisfied. Yet not for a clone. They are merely recognized for being a clone, as you said. Therefore, all knowledge of itself that it seeks from others is regurgitated from its own knowledge of the original. The knowledge it receives in return isn't satisfactory. In this pursuit of oneself, you are merely the shadow of someone else. This is the very thing that you spoke of that specifically made the clone evil. It is the relationship of original and clone, master and slave, everything and nothing. The clone is everything, except itself. And to be itself, is the very thing it seeks.
If you meet your clone, which has your memories and thinks that you are the clone then you might as well be a clone. You can not tell. Maybe you could tell the difference biologically as the copying might leave marks or something but I am not a biologist so I dont know. So I think that the best way how to resolve this dilemma is to act as if your clone is not your clone but just some other random person, he has his human rights, you have yours, etc... If you each go and live your own life then you will start to differentiate, you will meet different people, learn different things, and have different ideas. When you have siblings which grew from a single cell (identical twins) they are basically clones of each other. But they each grew in slightly different environment, each got different name, etc... So they are different.
These are interesting ideas, but there is another angle I’d like to add here. The “evil clone” trope is a fictitious concept. With our current technology, we could not practically clone a person, thus the use of the evil clone idea seems to be meant more as a means of describing a liar. I think the practical use of the idea isn’t someone that’s a literal evil clone of someone, but rather a chameleon deceiving others into thinking they are something they are not. In essence, the clone is an imitation that’s only skin deep.
Thank you for your insight, master
i find the picture of a child holding up a 'black lives matter' sign a strange one for the sentence 'post-modernist commenators (were) mis-using well established science in order to push their obscure theories on social issues". Is black lives matter(ing) an obscure theory? What well established science are they using to push their theories? Bizarre choice and I can't seem to wrap my head around on which part of his argument you were attemting to illustrate here.
Summary (according to AI)
- A video of two AI speaking to each other went viral over a decade ago, and since then there has been a nervous fascination with AI having existential or philosophical discussions.
- The Infinite Conversation is a website featuring a never-ending conversation between two AI trained to resemble public figures, and the conversations are surprisingly coherent.
- The authority of the one arguing for a certain position doesn't guarantee that the idea is valid, but credentials are important in navigating the many claims we encounter every day.
- The Master-Slave dialectic is about the development of knowledge, and philosophers, political pundits, self-help gurus, content creators, and even AI can act as a kind of Master if we rely on them for knowledge.
- One can resist our Masters not by merely thinking about their ideas but by thinking through them and using their ideas to expose their limitations and compensate for them in the process.
according to ai life is meaningless and doesnt support ideas to into the head that are good for the human person Its only outside of it that matters meaning outside the human brain is the real world this real world that we see today are not real theyre just projections coming from our brain therefore nothing is real.
conveniently skipped the evil ai comic
the biggest plottwist would be if ai generated the whole video
Bro stop playing
13:50 most moving part of the video for me personally
Need to rewatch this… good video
Making music for this video and world was a hauntingly.. fun. Is that a thing? Ya took us on a wild ride!
😅
Fuck, right as I glanced at this comment I was wondering who did the music
How could a video criticize so many people and say absolutely nothing in return? Perfect description of modern thought.
Yes... very annoying bait and switch... there are all sorts of mindblowing things that happen if you discuss philosophy with GPT, and this video went into none of them while advancing the creator's pet criticisms.
The video is amazing. I just subscribed, I am not sure if it's just me and if it is you can disregard this comment, but if you could lower the background music a bit, bc I want to focus on your voice and your words.
This was so great to watch, loved it from beginning to end. All these interesting theories and comparisons, it made me think the slave-master as a spectrum in our world model, also makes sense when we think about god as a master, the one we can look up to for ultimate knowledge. But since we don’t know what and who god is in the physical world, we have a imaginary construct of it. Which makes me wonder, if AI, after becoming sentient could fill in that ultimate master spot available in our slave master hierarchy
I think that paper by Sokal was genius. James Lindsay did the same thing with a critical theory paper and got it published in Ausralia. He knows their jargon and the way they think.
Lindsay sent that paper in to a non-academic journal that charges $625 fee to publish.
They sent the same paper to an actual journal of gender studies “NORMA” and it was rejected. Some people will publish anything for the right price.
While Sokal's paper was a clever and effective critique of certain postmodern and poststructuralist claims, it did not actually disprove critical theory as a whole. it is important to recognize that Sokal's hoax was targeted specifically at a certain strain of postmodern and poststructuralist thought that was prevalent in the humanities and social sciences at the time, One of the key ideas behind this strain of thought was the notion of "social constructionism," which held that all social phenomena, including knowledge, truth, and reality itself, were constructed through language and discourse.
This has since been disproven. of course, as the hoax of Pilton man has shown us, if a new claim is disproven, it does not disprove those which have been proven before it.
@@breakingboundaries3950
There's also this from Wikipedia.
"Boghossian, Lindsay, and Pluckrose wrote 20 articles that promoted deliberately absurd ideas or morally questionable acts and submitted them to various peer-reviewed journals. Although they had planned for the project to run until January 2019, the trio admitted to the hoax in October 2018 after journalists from The Wall Street Journal revealed that "Helen Wilson", the pseudonym used for their article published in Gender, Place & Culture, did not exist. By the time of the revelation, 4 of their 20 papers had been published; 3 had been accepted but not yet published; 6 had been rejected; and 7 were still under review. Included among the articles that were published were arguments that dogs engage in rape culture and that men could reduce their transphobia by anally penetrating themselves with sex toys, as well as Adolf Hitler's Mein Kampf rewritten in feminist language.[2][4] The first of these had won special recognition from the journal that published it."
CITATIONClose
[2] Schuessler, Jennifer (October 4, 2018). "Hoaxers Slip Breastaurants and Dog-Park Sex into Journals". The New York Times. Archived from the original on October 10, 2018. Retrieved October 11, 2018.
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[4] Kennedy, Laura. "Hoax papers: The Shoddy, Absurd and Unethical Side of Academia". The Irish Times. Retrieved February 15, 2021.
It doesn't seem these were all rejected before the hoax was revieled. This is nothing but dirty, nasty neo-marxist trash mingled with postmodernism and the acceptance of these papers demonstrates it.
Catastrophic for their complete nonsense
@@mikedebell2242 I think it’s important to note that 500-600 papers are retracted from scientific journals every year due to scientific misconduct or just honest errors - and that’s in all academic fields. Lindsay and his team also fabricated data, which is kind of important when trying to draw conclusions about new claims.
If you fabricated data about how T-Rex could swim and sent it into 20 paleo journals that probably don’t make much to begin with - some would probably print it just to get some recognition to their brand.
Also I think most importantly, as I’ve said before - disproving new claims within the realm of critical theory do not disprove the one’s which have already been established. CRT, feminist studies, and Marxism are all fine without dog rape culture my friend 😂
@@breakingboundaries3950 The papers didn't disprove it. They demonstrated that it is what it is, pure trash! Communism with a different twist.
This sounds like a more interesting experiment than having two AI's have a conversation as themselves. I've tried that a few times, and they quickly become brown nosing sycophants.
Wow I am truly touched by this video, fantastically edited and paced with such an interesting array of sources. Instantly subscribed and iam excited to consume more!
So Alan Sokal was annoyed that people were claiming that science research was manipulated to advantage certain perspectives, and to counter that misperception, he manipulated a journal to advantage his own perspective through irony. Yet he appeared to miss the irony that he proved that the manipulation he disavowed was quite feasible.
The conversion between two AIs really could go on indefinitely. Seems pretty hard for AIs now to have strong opinions especially chatGPT. Their philosophy could contain almost anything and not make any sense at all and could erratically go from being morally sound to complete evil. I wish other AI platforms like Bluewillow AI could have interactions like these as well, and might bring up a new evolution to their models.
Conversation*
Brothers would begin to discuss
Ey yo rah remember that kid you bust?
19:03-25:28 was probably the scariest and most disturbing thing I’ve heard in a long time…
Amazing video though. Well done 👏🏼
I like that the title is a double entendre, referring to both philosophy put forth by AI programs and philosophy generated by viewing AIs through a philisophical lense.
It's a great video that explores the terms under which we engage with AIs, instead of expounding solely on the dangers of its existence, of which there are clearly many. Framing our conversations with and surrounding AIs within a dialectic, I think, is really constructive and probably necessary going forward, as there's no way to unmake the technology, but there are plenty of ways to engage with it in harmful ways now that it exists.
I just want to say that the use of the Hyper light drifter ost made me happy and got you a subscriber lol
i never understood why i got such immense existential dread from the sci fi trope ab the evil clone of yourself trying to pass as you. i think zizech put that fear into words when he was talking about the book about his ideology and how he felt like the clone
5:45 Thats kind of a weird choice of framing. As exactly these biases where discovered and proven to impact many scientific fields in the last 40 years since this happened, and are now a core aspect of our modern understanding of theory of science and study design. Maybe less so in physics, but it's valuable to thoroughly check models and scientific work for hidden biases.
This was such an Amazing video
Lacan is not a Post-Modernist, he is a Structuralist.
Also love the use of Berserk and Guts theme, such an existential and sad manga!
The "sujet supposé savoir" is not assuming the analyst knows something. It's assuming knowledge itself has a subject. It's assuming knowledge comes from someone. Lacan doesn't believe knowledge (the symptom) comes from within yourself (that's Miller's theory with his jouissance). That's why he proposes "Ça pense". That's why he works with topology. It's a subversion of Freudian psychologism.
Great video, as always, btw
As I was watching this I was listening to the infinite conversation and they were just talking about "what are dreams?" And Slavoj was talking about dreaming that a snake bit him and wishing it was a woman's boob instead because he thought it would've been funny 😂
Very interesting video. Thank you!
There wasn't a credit in the description, and I wasn't able to find one in the comments
but for reference, the interesting 3D game visuals in the game played alongside "I Have No Mouth..." seems to be from a game called NaissanceE, and is on Steam.