You know that same game is very cracked when people will forfeit games instead of playing the character with the best assist when they are the last on the team alive.
"...but that's more the result of everyone in ST doing the kind of damage you'd need to pay $7.99 for in most games nowadays" lmao, great line, no notes
Launcher had one of the funniest patch notes I’ve ever seen because in the big buff patch buffed literally every single normal she had. Her buff list was literally just a move list and it was really funny
one of the most interesting ways i've seen a character get nerfed into becoming a low tier is taokaka in bbcf (granted this isn't the only thing but it's the funniest one). her main jump in normal, j.B, literally got replaced by a completely different normal that hits slightly above her. she's a pixie character with no jump in normal lmao
another interesting character is terumi, who min-maxed all his stats into offense, pressure, and damage, being one of the best characters in all three. all at the cost of having probably the worst neutral in the game, which ends up being more important overall. he's so fun tho.
I think if you're doing another one of these, you kind of have to cover Jagi, because he's probably the best character in a fighting game to ever be by far the worst character on his entire roster and not even close. Fist of the North Star characters are truly built different, and it's how you can have a character with multiple TODs whose best matchup is 4-6 against another bottom tier. His Fatal KO can miss even if you hit with it. That's how much of a mess he is.
Speaking of characters that people think are broken but it could be attributed to the player, nothing tops the actual patch notes for Rivals 1 saying "Forsburn isn't broken, CakeAssault is just that much better than you guys."
It’s just that Forsburn, aside from having a cracked top player on deck, is so, so bad if you don’t have a PHD in his weird mechanics. He’s the bastard child of Link and Sheik from Melee, so he’s double complicated in ways most people aren’t prepared for. If it weren’t for the fact he has the ability to make a mixup visually unreactable, I’d say he’d age poorly after several DLC fighters. Although on the topic of busted Rivals 1 characters, please Daniel Furnace gimme back Release Sylvanos I am normal and can be trusted with huge hitboxes
@@lancesmith8298Sylvanos players explaining how having a kill move the size of the leaning tower of Pisa as well as full ground control was a good idea
@@noishfanboy1141 I just miss being able to comprehend him before he got reworked like five times in a row. And also playing him like a gorilla. I mean, the F-air and Balanced Flyswatter is probably still good without free stage-wide land cancelling, but hey, like any old fogey, I loved my cheap crap even cheaper
I was ready to comment a long and annoying "well actually" post when I saw this start off with Jedah, but you painted a thorough picture and came off well researched. Great stuff, hope to see even more!
The Vega Jumpscare was fuckin gold bro. As soon as you said "Footsies" about Super Turbo I immediately was thinking "yeah but Vega tho" it's like you read my mind
One thing to note about missing link: A lot of jabs in the game are stupidly slow, except for Chip and Sol. Most of them are 9-10 frames, and Testament’s is 11 frames. Also, a lot of character’s fastet normals are their slash and heavy slash buttons for some reason. None of this makes gg 1 Pot any better or worse, I just thought it was interesting to mention.
The talk about how a character like Launcher is bad in a modern game reminded me a lot of Strive Anji in the launch and early patches. The one thing he did have was really high damage off some specific counterhits. But because of the rest of him being so damn lacking you could just play passively on defense and then he'd just be a high risk-very low reward gamble. If you knew the matchup you had no reason to press buttons on defense because he would get ONE single 50/50 and his turn was over, where guessing wrong would only net about 60-80 damage without spending meter. And in the first version that mixup was NOT a mixup. The frame data on the low and the overhead was so significanty different that you could fuzzy block it and never get hit. People just didn't know the matchup and how easy that was to execute.
No character in Strive was ever truly lacking. I played Anji on release and really he was just a little too committal with the payoff being not good enough but like barely. Like go play AC the bad characters in that game are actually lacking.
You forgot the major reason why GGML potemkin just can't. HE GETS NO OKI, all his grabs and knockdowns mean nothing because enemies immediately tech after
Honestly there’s so much else wrong with Potemkin that the fact he can’t mix at all is a minor footnote. It only hurts more because one of the lower tier characters, Axl, is only vaguely okay because they forgot to program hitboxes on him. No, Pot is intentionally dogshit, and they finished his awful, awful toolkit
@@Tha-mountainYeah, Mewtwo isn't really evil or even an asshole, especially if going by the movies. Funnily enough, Jedah originally wasn't either, but then he got betrayed by underling, died, and essentially came back wrong and insane.
Little addition to launcher. She actually had some excellent damage, but ONLY IN THE CORNER, due to her 5s loops. Midscreen her combos were pitifully weak, especially compared to the rest of the cast. Also, if she wanted corner carry she gave up oki. The grand balance patch increased her corner carry by making her 6ms able to otg. Now she could easily route combos into 4s and otg with 6ms, both increasing her midsceen damage and corner carry. She could even convert roundstart hits into corner combos. Combined with j.ms being buffed to make her setplay better, she became an absolute menace.
Pot's Nitro hook actually returned in Guilty Gear XX Accent Core +R in his EX version (the EX versions give a new spin to the character, not necessarily for the better, but they aren't tournament legal).
Launcher at launch was a zoner where 80% of the cast had access to almost full screen moves. The character i mained, Lost warrior, invalidated alot of her zoning with one move...6S. Fast Fullscreen tracking projectile that triggers an teleport on hit invalidating any projectile she placed.
zato is either broken or bad, there is no inbetween. he was broken for most of xx and xrd till the last game for each version. strive i heard he's strong and at best bottom of top 5 till season 3 but idk lol
Very good video! One thing I find funny about Thanos is that he's the only character in MvC2 that can't air throw, which means he has a lot of trouble dealing with jumps especially since he's not good at locking people down. I do understand why they nerfed him so much, cause he was actually insane in MSH.
As somebody who's been playing Samsho VSP for a number of years I'm so glad you mentioned Enja, he's like one of the most iconic parts of that game. I thought I'd bring up a few things about him though, since even though the rekka's like the spotlight of him and everything he's still got a good amount more going for him and I would argue he's still completely viable. His high/low game is actually really good since he has the very rare attribute of being able to combo from his universal overhead, and he has two really rewarding lows with 6C and 66C. Funnily enough, you can get this mix after hitting the first hit of rekka and not doing the follow-ups, since it causes an air reset. His jump arc is also more of a double edged sword than anything, the fact that it's tied for the shortest duration in the game while boasting huge reward if he gets a deep jump-in is great, but in some matchups it's definitely not great (mainly against Charlotte). It's not an end all be all since he can still contest zoning with universal options like 2D, 3D, and walk forward > block > run, but still. Exploding pants is decent too lol Also I thought I'd take the time to shout out Escadora, who doesn't play the game as much anymore, but really was putting in work with Enja a year or two ago. I remember he placed pretty highly in a number of online brackets against reputable players. He's also just a very nice guy too
As someone that also plays i would like to add that his jumps are pretty good at hitting the opponent on the air, cause since his jump is lower than most of the cast and since he has a weirdly good J.AB he can hit the opponent from below, and that's kinda good
@felipe2557 oh yeah absolutely, j.AB is really good for hitting people above him too. Honestly imo I think the biggest thing holding him besides his movement is just that his far 5AB for whatever reason isn't recoil cancelable. The fact that the entire cast can get a massive guaranteed punish on a mid hitting normal that's not particularly fast or long reaching really sucks, especially when it's often his most consistent source of high damage
Cool video! only thing I think you left out on Thanos that's relevant to his tier placement is his lack of air throw, which is a HUGE deal the in context of MvC2. regardless, there was lots of good info and funny jokes in this video. keep up the good work!
An interesting example of a low-tier I found in a random game I tried for the hell of it is Souya from Daemon Bride. He's not the worst character in the game, but he suffers from one major flaw: he's a zoner in a game that has a universal 8-way projectile-invincible airdash. Most of his specials and even some of his normals are projectiles, which limits him majorly when, again, EVERYONE has an option to nullify his gameplan. His combos up close are pretty decent due to the multi-hitting properties of most of these projectiles allowing for longer hitstun, combined with some of them having ice properties, but actually enforcing the long-rage gameplan he was designed around is a nightmare, just because of the system itself. It's an interesting case of a character who feels like a mid or high tier that was just placed into the wrong game
As someone who adores Enja in the 2 games (technically 3 if we count SS4 Bust Kazuki) he's in, I'm glad you brought him up in this video. VSP Enja is certainly one of the designed characters of all time but I'll still love him anyhow, landing the Rekka is such a euphoric feeling I'll never get in any other game. I would also like to talk about SS6 Enja as he's much more viable and a very noticeable improvement from what was essentially "The Rushdown That Can't Rushdown" from VSP. This is due to two things: 1. He is not locked to VSP's mechanics which favor meditation more overall. In SS6, you have the choice of Spirits which affect your system mechanics akin to CvS2. Due to his rage based nature of course he benefits from ALL of them except V Spirit which I find absolutely hilarious and saddening as he was also bad in his debut game as well. (Note: I don't know much about vanilla SamSho 5 so this could be wrong.) 2. Damage across the board is lower in SS6 than VSP. This may sound like a bad thing but with how volatile VSP was, missing Rekka may as well put you back at character select against actual players. Simply put, it gives him more chances to go for Rekka whilst also giving him more chances overall to win neutral and start his surprisingly good offense. Rekka may do less damage overall but it's still one of the most damaging moves in the game and it's reward no longer feels slightly worthless with the overall damage nerf that happened in SS6. There is also a lot of other buffs and changes that helped from this transition (such as faster walking/running speed, faster medium slashes, faster WFT, Rage Rekka Ender becoming it's own move etc.) that turned him from arguably VSP's worst character into a volatile low-mid tier character that always has the threat of high damage if he ever gets in. It's like a redemption arc, except it happened way too late and Enja is now stuck in a very overlooked SamSho all things considered.
Jedah might not be amazing but he walked so other Aerial based fighters with High/Lows for days like I-NO and Izayoi could run. If there’s a character with a unique air dash like Jedah then chances are I’m gonna main then cause borderline instant over heads are just too good to pass on
Dunno if u take video ideas but given you briefly mentioned the meme abt Zato-1, interesting idea might be characters who got worse between revisions of a game. A bit more obscure but it might be something to look into. Im def new to fighting games but Ive been chatting with someone who's super super good at HFTF, and they mentioned how Alessi in Jojo's ventures was top tier and I found that rlly interesting. 2nd impact to 3rd strike Sean is another notable example I can think of. not sure if there's a lot of options there but could be something
I think discovering your channel was the best decision of my life!! You got me into so many other fighting games that aren't Guilty Gear or Jojo All Star Battle :D
Another funny thing to note about zato is that eddie is technically considered a projectile at all times. This means that the jack-o (another xrd bottom tier) mu is hilariously bad for zato since she can literally turn off eddie for around 10 seconds
Man, I haven't though about SamSho 5 for years. I only played Enja once, and dropped him almost immediately for the silliest of reasons. Not because he was slow and committal, but because his Rage meter built so quickly it made _Mu no Kyouchin_ nigh-impossible. And I mained Suija, despite having zero idea how to use him (iirc literally all his specials are aerial?), because he could build Mu so easily. I think I was just fascinated by that mechanic. (I also had to stare in disbelief at Enja's Speed-up super, until I realized it was just HCF->HCB->HCF+ABD!)
MVC2's low tier meta is cracked. Examples: Roll is so bad she's bottom 1 and her tier is just called "Roll Tier." There's 2 versions of Wolverine, Adamantium Claw and Bone Claw, but neither are good because Wolvie has some of the lowest health and defense in the game. Servbot exists.
Your friend is right in literally every game ZATO is in he starts out busted and then gets shot to being bottom tier. but he’s the best in Plus R compared to rev 2 and strive at least but that just goes to show that really anyone in Plus R can work even low tiers
It's a nice touch how Zato is worthless without Eddie, because that's basically his lore. He was the absolute worst assassin in his guild, so he struck a deal with Eddie to become the strongest.
Apparently I've heard that Potemkin isn't even considered the worst char now because Testament is even worse now and Potemkin Buster and Mega Fist are good enough moves that he isn't the worst character in the game. Though I have no clue because I certainly didn't actually play ML and just looked at the Dustloop page, and I bet you probably did similar as well because GG1 kind of really fucking sucks lol
Testament in GG1 is an unlockable boss character saddled with a massive glitch/oversight (inability to tech). Potemkin is playable from the start and just... bad.
My fav low tier ever is Little Mac from Super Smash Bros Ultimate. Being a ground based fighter in a game with insane aerial options overall is not good on paper But he has some tools to compensate for it, and a surprisingly good disadvantage state with 2 frame 1 options He might also be one of the greatest character in the whole game when it comes to catching landing since he has armored moves, is the 2nd fastest character in the game and has blazing fast normals (and reminder, jumping is REALLY good in Smash Ultimate so this is a huge strength) Finally he has a comeback mechanic that basically acts as a command grab that anti-airs and insta kill the opponent (but it loses to dodges and is SUPER unsafe on whiff). That's obviously fucking stupid but he needs it. His main weaknesses are his recovery, which isn't great but at least he got some mixups and priority, as well as his safety on shield (most safe on block options being aerial attack in Smash Ultimate). This last point makes him a spacing reliant character in a game with no great grounded micro-spacing option (he's also super fast, which is both super good and kind of too much in this case). Finally his combo game is bad, his throws are lackluster and he relies on reads to get anything done in advantage state. He's definitely an easy character to pick tho, especially in casual settings, and he's a lot of fun. But he's just too inconsistent, weird, and caries too many weaknesses for it to see great representation at high level in competitive play. If you start playing him, you're stuck with him tbh, has he is basically not playing the same game. Which is why I love this character a lot lmao (I'm forced to, please help)
Sometimes I genuinely wonder if Missing Link Potemkin deserves to be given the honor of "Worst Fighting Game Character of All Time". I know it feels excessive, but what is the competition? MvC2 Roll? At least she has a functional projectile and can be put in a team with two good characters...
Hilarious you put Potemkin on here from Missing Link when Testament from the same game was so bad he could make false infinites on him legit because he couldn't tech anything without a literal glitch, and even then it barely helped him. Poor bastard was so ungodly awful it's no surprise it was revealed he was barely finished and not really intended to be playable.
Tuff E Nuff is home to one of my favourite low tiers: Beans. He has really good buttons, but can’t really play aggressive or convert his pokes into pressure, so his gameplan is kind of limited. If you ever did another one of these, Beans would be a great addition!
IMO one of the biggest buffs Launcher got was her B normal cancels. Not only 2B, but 5B was also impossible to special cancel, and if you pressed it you'd be in recovery for like 10 years. Her pressure/zoning had so many gaps that 2B or 5B can now fill, but at the time just let the opponent roll or mash out. She also had some godawful matchups that got nerfed. Sader and Swift just destroyed her completely, but nowadays are a lot less strong than the past.
I feel like tiers barely even make sense in this game, but I have such a love for Toxic in Lethal League Blaze. She’s not bottom tier, but something about knowing she’s not that great makes me want to be even better with her. And also being the closest thing to a trapper in an extremely non standard fighting game is really cool
I like seeing the “random” fighting games getting some love. I don’t really even play fight games, but some of my favorite times is playing some of the most random fight games on emulators.
Surprised you didn't mention potemkin's 0:9 matchup against Justice in ML. His dustloop page has a pretty detailed description of how completely fucked it is.
Really obscure one is that one of the random background characters from the strive story is named Stryper. Really caught me off guard when I first saw it.
i remember when i started to play SMVS i ran into an Enja player that smoked me 2 touched me every round and i was like omg he has to be the best character in the game.
Fuckin' MAMIYA In her own game, Hokuto No Ken, she's arguably the worst character in the game. In any other game, even Marvel, she'd be banned almost immediately.
I don’t play competitive fighting games nor will I act like I do but I can play the hell outta Isabelle in ultimate with my friends,, I remember it some point she was bottom 5 and I’ve always been curious as too why
Aww, tought you were gonna talk about bedman instead of zato, i feel he is a lot more interesting in his history too and zato has been pretty bad for only this patch
I talked about Zato mostly cause a friend recommended I look into him but I wouldn't be adversed to talking about Bedman some day, I do know some of what makes him very interesting and strange lol
@@MrMixtape i did make a vid myself about how forgotten but also how polarizing bedmans archetype, the lockdown is, so id love to see you talk about him in a vid, especially strive bedman and how his lockdown its incredibly unique with its timing based mechanics
since i can't shut up about niche hftf stuff and you brought hol up yourself, glass oki is not a true unblockable either, because if you time your lows at the exact same time as glass hits, it either won't combo, or make your 2c unsafe or hit, so the right timing leaves around 1f gaps to block it correctly, moreover, since glass puts you in blockstun before it actually hits you, you can buffer a guard cancel on wakeup and on characters with long gc invul it allows you to get out of knockdown loop and deny hol his meter gain. it actually works on some other unblockables in the game(v.ice is the character that is also affected by this), but it requires you to time a 6234a input in a couple frames before you are hit by a low, so most people don't bother with this in hol matchup. hol still has his metered unblockables, but glass loops are an important meterbuild option that allows you to get to the point of straight up murdering the opponent with multible meaty slow bullets, and hol often relies on a single lucky knockdown in a match anyway, as nobody using an active stand would ever willingly go s.off on hol outside of combo drops.
I wonder if you could make something like Enja's hard to set up nuclear damage in any way viable without making it the worst thing in the entire planet. Anybody have some ideas/examples of it working?
Other cool low tiers (mainly smash) Ssbb lucas: great movement with magnetic and great combo starters. Why is he bad? Grab release glitch when fighting marth. Melee DK: powerful grab game, hits hard, has really good frame data on his up b, and his bair is like jigglypuffs. Weaknesses? He has a hard time in neutral when he is front-facing you, has a big body, and can't go off stage to edgeguard unless he tries to get the initial up b. Smash 64 link: great projectile game, decent combo starter and enders, and has good range being the only swordy. Weaknesses? That non-existent recovery, kind of slow, and other characters can more consistently shield pressure and 0-death.
Cammy got blessed with being good in later games because she was so bad in ST And Vega got punished with being bad or mediocre because he was extremely degenerate in ST
they clipped my boi Zatos wings in strive. He was amazing after eddie meter buff...then they effed up his wings (and sf6 launched lol) so I havent played him since..i miss him ;_;
You know a game is cracked when a character with an infinite and one of the best assists in the game is still considered low tier
POWER
You know that same game is very cracked when people will forfeit games instead of playing the character with the best assist when they are the last on the team alive.
@@wcjerky captain suck ass
@@wcjerkyreally funny because the character is actually one of the worst point characters. Literal assist only
my favorite part of Thanos is how he looks like some happy go lucky goober in MVC2, like he just enjoys being here
Why does he look and move SO silly lmao
he's so full of whimsy and joy ❤️❤️💓💓
Headcanon: he's from a timeline where he actually got Lady Death-senpai to notice him.
I guess you could say, it puts a smile on his face.
"Thanos reigns!" :D
"...but that's more the result of everyone in ST doing the kind of damage you'd need to pay $7.99 for in most games nowadays"
lmao, great line, no notes
Launcher had one of the funniest patch notes I’ve ever seen because in the big buff patch buffed literally every single normal she had. Her buff list was literally just a move list and it was really funny
one of the most interesting ways i've seen a character get nerfed into becoming a low tier is taokaka in bbcf (granted this isn't the only thing but it's the funniest one). her main jump in normal, j.B, literally got replaced by a completely different normal that hits slightly above her. she's a pixie character with no jump in normal lmao
another interesting character is terumi, who min-maxed all his stats into offense, pressure, and damage, being one of the best characters in all three. all at the cost of having probably the worst neutral in the game, which ends up being more important overall. he's so fun tho.
poor bastard, I couldn't imagine trying to play, for example, Yosuke Hanamura (P4AU) without air approaches.
I think if you're doing another one of these, you kind of have to cover Jagi, because he's probably the best character in a fighting game to ever be by far the worst character on his entire roster and not even close. Fist of the North Star characters are truly built different, and it's how you can have a character with multiple TODs whose best matchup is 4-6 against another bottom tier.
His Fatal KO can miss even if you hit with it. That's how much of a mess he is.
Wait, even worse than Mr. Doesn't Kneel?
@@glacierwolf2155 Does that mean Raoh? Because he's either the third or fourth best character, depending on who you talk to.
Speaking of characters that people think are broken but it could be attributed to the player, nothing tops the actual patch notes for Rivals 1 saying "Forsburn isn't broken, CakeAssault is just that much better than you guys."
I remember that, Chad move by the rivals team for sure! Cake still gets top 3 consistently (and probably will till rivals of aether 2 come out)
It’s just that Forsburn, aside from having a cracked top player on deck, is so, so bad if you don’t have a PHD in his weird mechanics. He’s the bastard child of Link and Sheik from Melee, so he’s double complicated in ways most people aren’t prepared for. If it weren’t for the fact he has the ability to make a mixup visually unreactable, I’d say he’d age poorly after several DLC fighters.
Although on the topic of busted Rivals 1 characters, please Daniel Furnace gimme back Release Sylvanos I am normal and can be trusted with huge hitboxes
Devs literally said, "Skill issue." 💀
@@lancesmith8298Sylvanos players explaining how having a kill move the size of the leaning tower of Pisa as well as full ground control was a good idea
@@noishfanboy1141 I just miss being able to comprehend him before he got reworked like five times in a row. And also playing him like a gorilla. I mean, the F-air and Balanced Flyswatter is probably still good without free stage-wide land cancelling, but hey, like any old fogey, I loved my cheap crap even cheaper
I was ready to comment a long and annoying "well actually" post when I saw this start off with Jedah, but you painted a thorough picture and came off well researched. Great stuff, hope to see even more!
Thank you very much sir, I appreciate the kind words!
The Vega Jumpscare was fuckin gold bro. As soon as you said "Footsies" about Super Turbo I immediately was thinking "yeah but Vega tho" it's like you read my mind
I think MarlonPie eventually transitioned to playing Ino after the Zato nerfs but you represent the Zato-Viability-Arc very well! Gr8 vid
One thing to note about missing link: A lot of jabs in the game are stupidly slow, except for Chip and Sol. Most of them are 9-10 frames, and Testament’s is 11 frames. Also, a lot of character’s fastet normals are their slash and heavy slash buttons for some reason. None of this makes gg 1 Pot any better or worse, I just thought it was interesting to mention.
The talk about how a character like Launcher is bad in a modern game reminded me a lot of Strive Anji in the launch and early patches. The one thing he did have was really high damage off some specific counterhits. But because of the rest of him being so damn lacking you could just play passively on defense and then he'd just be a high risk-very low reward gamble. If you knew the matchup you had no reason to press buttons on defense because he would get ONE single 50/50 and his turn was over, where guessing wrong would only net about 60-80 damage without spending meter. And in the first version that mixup was NOT a mixup. The frame data on the low and the overhead was so significanty different that you could fuzzy block it and never get hit. People just didn't know the matchup and how easy that was to execute.
No character in Strive was ever truly lacking. I played Anji on release and really he was just a little too committal with the payoff being not good enough but like barely. Like go play AC the bad characters in that game are actually lacking.
"SamSho, the epitome of honest"
Man I play Ukyo, honesty is not in my lexicon.
You forgot the major reason why GGML potemkin just can't. HE GETS NO OKI, all his grabs and knockdowns mean nothing because enemies immediately tech after
Honestly there’s so much else wrong with Potemkin that the fact he can’t mix at all is a minor footnote.
It only hurts more because one of the lower tier characters, Axl, is only vaguely okay because they forgot to program hitboxes on him. No, Pot is intentionally dogshit, and they finished his awful, awful toolkit
I love how Jedah has the Mewtwo hurtboxes. XD
I mean they are pretty similar
They are a-holes and grey
@@bpepsitropper8512 Idk Mewtwo has a good reason to be standoffish with others
Jedah is just a dick
@@bpepsitropper8512 wait I thought mew2 was just pissed
@@Tha-mountainYeah, Mewtwo isn't really evil or even an asshole, especially if going by the movies. Funnily enough, Jedah originally wasn't either, but then he got betrayed by underling, died, and essentially came back wrong and insane.
Little addition to launcher.
She actually had some excellent damage, but ONLY IN THE CORNER, due to her 5s loops. Midscreen her combos were pitifully weak, especially compared to the rest of the cast. Also, if she wanted corner carry she gave up oki. The grand balance patch increased her corner carry by making her 6ms able to otg. Now she could easily route combos into 4s and otg with 6ms, both increasing her midsceen damage and corner carry. She could even convert roundstart hits into corner combos. Combined with j.ms being buffed to make her setplay better, she became an absolute menace.
Pot's Nitro hook actually returned in Guilty Gear XX Accent Core +R in his EX version (the EX versions give a new spin to the character, not necessarily for the better, but they aren't tournament legal).
Launcher at launch was a zoner where 80% of the cast had access to almost full screen moves. The character i mained, Lost warrior, invalidated alot of her zoning with one move...6S. Fast Fullscreen tracking projectile that triggers an teleport on hit invalidating any projectile she placed.
My favorite part of Jedah is that his 2HP is -18 on hit and -19 on block and potentially even worse if you don't get every hit! What a silly guy :3
zato is either broken or bad, there is no inbetween. he was broken for most of xx and xrd till the last game for each version. strive i heard he's strong and at best bottom of top 5 till season 3 but idk lol
He definitely fell from grace in Strive. They nerfed him to all hell and its more of a chore to play him than a high skill high reward thing now
He's still great in strive just hard to play compared to other great characters.
Zato is bottom 1 in strive lol
@@Asbestosp0isoning really darn I guess the metas changed
Zato used to be a highly difficult but rewarding character in Strive, then they shot Eddie and now he has his own bottom tier on every tier list
Very good video! One thing I find funny about Thanos is that he's the only character in MvC2 that can't air throw, which means he has a lot of trouble dealing with jumps especially since he's not good at locking people down. I do understand why they nerfed him so much, cause he was actually insane in MSH.
As somebody who's been playing Samsho VSP for a number of years I'm so glad you mentioned Enja, he's like one of the most iconic parts of that game. I thought I'd bring up a few things about him though, since even though the rekka's like the spotlight of him and everything he's still got a good amount more going for him and I would argue he's still completely viable. His high/low game is actually really good since he has the very rare attribute of being able to combo from his universal overhead, and he has two really rewarding lows with 6C and 66C. Funnily enough, you can get this mix after hitting the first hit of rekka and not doing the follow-ups, since it causes an air reset. His jump arc is also more of a double edged sword than anything, the fact that it's tied for the shortest duration in the game while boasting huge reward if he gets a deep jump-in is great, but in some matchups it's definitely not great (mainly against Charlotte). It's not an end all be all since he can still contest zoning with universal options like 2D, 3D, and walk forward > block > run, but still. Exploding pants is decent too lol
Also I thought I'd take the time to shout out Escadora, who doesn't play the game as much anymore, but really was putting in work with Enja a year or two ago. I remember he placed pretty highly in a number of online brackets against reputable players. He's also just a very nice guy too
As someone that also plays i would like to add that his jumps are pretty good at hitting the opponent on the air, cause since his jump is lower than most of the cast and since he has a weirdly good J.AB he can hit the opponent from below, and that's kinda good
@felipe2557 oh yeah absolutely, j.AB is really good for hitting people above him too. Honestly imo I think the biggest thing holding him besides his movement is just that his far 5AB for whatever reason isn't recoil cancelable. The fact that the entire cast can get a massive guaranteed punish on a mid hitting normal that's not particularly fast or long reaching really sucks, especially when it's often his most consistent source of high damage
God i hated enja so much when playing arcade mode
Cool video! only thing I think you left out on Thanos that's relevant to his tier placement is his lack of air throw, which is a HUGE deal the in context of MvC2.
regardless, there was lots of good info and funny jokes in this video. keep up the good work!
An interesting example of a low-tier I found in a random game I tried for the hell of it is Souya from Daemon Bride. He's not the worst character in the game, but he suffers from one major flaw: he's a zoner in a game that has a universal 8-way projectile-invincible airdash. Most of his specials and even some of his normals are projectiles, which limits him majorly when, again, EVERYONE has an option to nullify his gameplan. His combos up close are pretty decent due to the multi-hitting properties of most of these projectiles allowing for longer hitstun, combined with some of them having ice properties, but actually enforcing the long-rage gameplan he was designed around is a nightmare, just because of the system itself. It's an interesting case of a character who feels like a mid or high tier that was just placed into the wrong game
As someone who adores Enja in the 2 games (technically 3 if we count SS4 Bust Kazuki) he's in, I'm glad you brought him up in this video. VSP Enja is certainly one of the designed characters of all time but I'll still love him anyhow, landing the Rekka is such a euphoric feeling I'll never get in any other game.
I would also like to talk about SS6 Enja as he's much more viable and a very noticeable improvement from what was essentially "The Rushdown That Can't Rushdown" from VSP. This is due to two things:
1. He is not locked to VSP's mechanics which favor meditation more overall. In SS6, you have the choice of Spirits which affect your system mechanics akin to CvS2. Due to his rage based nature of course he benefits from ALL of them except V Spirit which I find absolutely hilarious and saddening as he was also bad in his debut game as well. (Note: I don't know much about vanilla SamSho 5 so this could be wrong.)
2. Damage across the board is lower in SS6 than VSP. This may sound like a bad thing but with how volatile VSP was, missing Rekka may as well put you back at character select against actual players. Simply put, it gives him more chances to go for Rekka whilst also giving him more chances overall to win neutral and start his surprisingly good offense. Rekka may do less damage overall but it's still one of the most damaging moves in the game and it's reward no longer feels slightly worthless with the overall damage nerf that happened in SS6.
There is also a lot of other buffs and changes that helped from this transition (such as faster walking/running speed, faster medium slashes, faster WFT, Rage Rekka Ender becoming it's own move etc.) that turned him from arguably VSP's worst character into a volatile low-mid tier character that always has the threat of high damage if he ever gets in. It's like a redemption arc, except it happened way too late and Enja is now stuck in a very overlooked SamSho all things considered.
Jedah might not be amazing but he walked so other Aerial based fighters with High/Lows for days like I-NO and Izayoi could run. If there’s a character with a unique air dash like Jedah then chances are I’m gonna main then cause borderline instant over heads are just too good to pass on
Dunno if u take video ideas but given you briefly mentioned the meme abt Zato-1, interesting idea might be characters who got worse between revisions of a game. A bit more obscure but it might be something to look into. Im def new to fighting games but Ive been chatting with someone who's super super good at HFTF, and they mentioned how Alessi in Jojo's ventures was top tier and I found that rlly interesting. 2nd impact to 3rd strike Sean is another notable example I can think of. not sure if there's a lot of options there but could be something
Glow downs, basically
I think discovering your channel was the best decision of my life!! You got me into so many other fighting games that aren't Guilty Gear or Jojo All Star Battle :D
Another funny thing to note about zato is that eddie is technically considered a projectile at all times. This means that the jack-o (another xrd bottom tier) mu is hilariously bad for zato since she can literally turn off eddie for around 10 seconds
Man, I haven't though about SamSho 5 for years. I only played Enja once, and dropped him almost immediately for the silliest of reasons. Not because he was slow and committal, but because his Rage meter built so quickly it made _Mu no Kyouchin_ nigh-impossible. And I mained Suija, despite having zero idea how to use him (iirc literally all his specials are aerial?), because he could build Mu so easily. I think I was just fascinated by that mechanic.
(I also had to stare in disbelief at Enja's Speed-up super, until I realized it was just HCF->HCB->HCF+ABD!)
Love this series, please do more on Marvel 2's low tier meta.
MVC2's low tier meta is cracked. Examples: Roll is so bad she's bottom 1 and her tier is just called "Roll Tier." There's 2 versions of Wolverine, Adamantium Claw and Bone Claw, but neither are good because Wolvie has some of the lowest health and defense in the game. Servbot exists.
Love these vids homie, good work
Your friend is right in literally every game ZATO is in he starts out busted and then gets shot to being bottom tier. but he’s the best in Plus R compared to rev 2 and strive at least but that just goes to show that really anyone in Plus R can work even low tiers
It's a nice touch how Zato is worthless without Eddie, because that's basically his lore. He was the absolute worst assassin in his guild, so he struck a deal with Eddie to become the strongest.
Apparently I've heard that Potemkin isn't even considered the worst char now because Testament is even worse now and Potemkin Buster and Mega Fist are good enough moves that he isn't the worst character in the game. Though I have no clue because I certainly didn't actually play ML and just looked at the Dustloop page, and I bet you probably did similar as well because GG1 kind of really fucking sucks lol
Testament in GG1 is an unlockable boss character saddled with a massive glitch/oversight (inability to tech). Potemkin is playable from the start and just... bad.
My fav low tier ever is Little Mac from Super Smash Bros Ultimate.
Being a ground based fighter in a game with insane aerial options overall is not good on paper
But he has some tools to compensate for it, and a surprisingly good disadvantage state with 2 frame 1 options
He might also be one of the greatest character in the whole game when it comes to catching landing since he has armored moves, is the 2nd fastest character in the game and has blazing fast normals (and reminder, jumping is REALLY good in Smash Ultimate so this is a huge strength)
Finally he has a comeback mechanic that basically acts as a command grab that anti-airs and insta kill the opponent (but it loses to dodges and is SUPER unsafe on whiff). That's obviously fucking stupid but he needs it.
His main weaknesses are his recovery, which isn't great but at least he got some mixups and priority, as well as his safety on shield (most safe on block options being aerial attack in Smash Ultimate). This last point makes him a spacing reliant character in a game with no great grounded micro-spacing option (he's also super fast, which is both super good and kind of too much in this case). Finally his combo game is bad, his throws are lackluster and he relies on reads to get anything done in advantage state.
He's definitely an easy character to pick tho, especially in casual settings, and he's a lot of fun. But he's just too inconsistent, weird, and caries too many weaknesses for it to see great representation at high level in competitive play.
If you start playing him, you're stuck with him tbh, has he is basically not playing the same game. Which is why I love this character a lot lmao (I'm forced to, please help)
Sometimes I genuinely wonder if Missing Link Potemkin deserves to be given the honor of "Worst Fighting Game Character of All Time".
I know it feels excessive, but what is the competition? MvC2 Roll? At least she has a functional projectile and can be put in a team with two good characters...
Hilarious you put Potemkin on here from Missing Link when Testament from the same game was so bad he could make false infinites on him legit because he couldn't tech anything without a literal glitch, and even then it barely helped him. Poor bastard was so ungodly awful it's no surprise it was revealed he was barely finished and not really intended to be playable.
why am i cursed to always like the low tiers i guess i like the struggle until it clicks and the rage it gives people
Tuff E Nuff is home to one of my favourite low tiers: Beans. He has really good buttons, but can’t really play aggressive or convert his pokes into pressure, so his gameplan is kind of limited. If you ever did another one of these, Beans would be a great addition!
IMO one of the biggest buffs Launcher got was her B normal cancels. Not only 2B, but 5B was also impossible to special cancel, and if you pressed it you'd be in recovery for like 10 years. Her pressure/zoning had so many gaps that 2B or 5B can now fill, but at the time just let the opponent roll or mash out. She also had some godawful matchups that got nerfed. Sader and Swift just destroyed her completely, but nowadays are a lot less strong than the past.
9:27 fucking Vega, the Bane of my existence
Love videos like this. Well made, educational, and funny.
that thumbnail was the worst bait I've ever seen... I'm still watching it
Launcher mentioned!
Ngl i have never played DNF, but i always liked her the most in the cast and i was sad to see her be low-teir for a long time
I feel like tiers barely even make sense in this game, but I have such a love for Toxic in Lethal League Blaze. She’s not bottom tier, but something about knowing she’s not that great makes me want to be even better with her. And also being the closest thing to a trapper in an extremely non standard fighting game is really cool
Skarlet in MK 11 stayed bottom 5 for quite some time but I played her all throughout the game’s run 😅 Loved her rendition in MK 11 for whatever reason
ENJA MENTIONED
AAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHA
CHESTO
pot in AC had 2 be them apologizing for missing link potemkin bc oh my god
I like seeing the “random” fighting games getting some love. I don’t really even play fight games, but some of my favorite times is playing some of the most random fight games on emulators.
1:10 - Jedah is actually my favorite character from the Darkstalkers franchise, alongside Lei Lei/Hsien-Ko.
Surprised you didn't mention potemkin's 0:9 matchup against Justice in ML. His dustloop page has a pretty detailed description of how completely fucked it is.
dude has the same guilty gear playtime as the average bridget stan
Jack-O vs Zato is such a funny fucking matchup in Rev 2 since Jack's Aegis Field just... eats every single Eddie attack.
In version 1 of DNF, I'd say Lost Warrior was regarded as the worst. Launcher was bad, but LW couldn't play the game at all
Nitro Hook came back (sorta) in +R as a move for EX Pot
Really obscure one is that one of the random background characters from the strive story is named Stryper. Really caught me off guard when I first saw it.
Vampire savior was part of that generation before health bars draining towards the middle was a industry standard
i remember when i started to play SMVS i ran into an Enja player that smoked me 2 touched me every round and i was like omg he has to be the best character in the game.
21:20 unless you are a baiken main in strive.
I said this but for Gannon lol. Pick any smash game, he’s bottom 5.
Have you done a vid on weird motion inputs yet? Cammy's 1269P and Enja's nightmare of an input got me very curious
“hard to blockable” should be a common fighting game term lmao
10:36 Behemoth Typhoon readings detected!
XD
I don’t care if jedah is forever doomed to be a low tier I will always play him in any game he’s in
Hell I bought mvci just to play as him
NO MORE HEROOES MENTIONED IN BEGINNING LETS GOOOOO
TRAVIS IT’S KILL OR BE KILLED 🗣️🔥🔥🔥
Fuckin' MAMIYA
In her own game, Hokuto No Ken, she's arguably the worst character in the game.
In any other game, even Marvel, she'd be banned almost immediately.
I clicked on this hoping for a jedah rep, and I was not disappointed. Thank you.
vid was so good that when the end came I forgot that this was a single GREAT vid that had no hiccups and fun
I remember launcher had buttons that were very minus, even from a distance
magneto was nerfed in xmen vs sf and is in marvel super heroes as a playable non boss character, his like basic strengths are just like that good lol
for context xmen children of the atom mag does like 60% with super lmao
Mvc2 is the only game were dan can 0 to death solo.
I don’t play competitive fighting games nor will I act like I do but I can play the hell outta Isabelle in ultimate with my friends,, I remember it some point she was bottom 5 and I’ve always been curious as too why
Zabel Zarock = Rock The Bells
That pronunciation was killing me 😅
As a day 1 Launcher main, pre-patch hurts me physically
21:20 As a yuel player in GBVSR, PLEASE GOD BE CORRECT
The claw jumpscare😭
The only time cammy was low tier was in SF2, in every other game she was in, she was pretty good
I would love if you made more of these kind of videos.
jedah looks like an antagonist in a mahou shoujo
I read online somewhere that R. Mika is bottom tier in Alpha 3. I was always curious as to why she sucks in that game, but was pretty decent in sfv.
Subbed because you put Black Lawn Finale in the video
Aww, tought you were gonna talk about bedman instead of zato, i feel he is a lot more interesting in his history too and zato has been pretty bad for only this patch
I talked about Zato mostly cause a friend recommended I look into him but I wouldn't be adversed to talking about Bedman some day, I do know some of what makes him very interesting and strange lol
@@MrMixtape i would love that
@@MrMixtape i did make a vid myself about how forgotten but also how polarizing bedmans archetype, the lockdown is, so id love to see you talk about him in a vid, especially strive bedman and how his lockdown its incredibly unique with its timing based mechanics
since i can't shut up about niche hftf stuff and you brought hol up yourself, glass oki is not a true unblockable either, because if you time your lows at the exact same time as glass hits, it either won't combo, or make your 2c unsafe or hit, so the right timing leaves around 1f gaps to block it correctly, moreover, since glass puts you in blockstun before it actually hits you, you can buffer a guard cancel on wakeup and on characters with long gc invul it allows you to get out of knockdown loop and deny hol his meter gain. it actually works on some other unblockables in the game(v.ice is the character that is also affected by this), but it requires you to time a 6234a input in a couple frames before you are hit by a low, so most people don't bother with this in hol matchup. hol still has his metered unblockables, but glass loops are an important meterbuild option that allows you to get to the point of straight up murdering the opponent with multible meaty slow bullets, and hol often relies on a single lucky knockdown in a match anyway, as nobody using an active stand would ever willingly go s.off on hol outside of combo drops.
the 2c bit is referring to the more basic glass 2c setup.
You say no one would go stand off against Hol when Midler is nigh useless in stand on.
@@DragoonCenten midler is a specific case. she uses it for tech chase and occasional poking though
@@DragoonCenten also you still can block in s. on, even if you dont use s. on normals.
@@ppthebiggest Midler has good tech chase no matter what really.
12:06 GIVE HER BACK ST SPIN KNUCKLE
I would love to hear some more insight into other miserable fighting game characters such as Tager in the first Blazblue or Ganondorf in Smash Brawl
putting sf6 cammy on the thumbail jumpscared me
I need this man to talk about bedman on a low tier video
Or launch strive sin
Instant wins are still a thing lol
let me guess, that final silhouette is gonna be pot from guilty gear ml? just wanted to guess before seeing the first character
“Zato fights with his buddy eddie”
UHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
I love these videos even though i dont know shit about fighting games
I wonder if you could make something like Enja's hard to set up nuclear damage in any way viable without making it the worst thing in the entire planet. Anybody have some ideas/examples of it working?
Nitro hook did make a cameo in +R with his EX mode
Other cool low tiers (mainly smash)
Ssbb lucas: great movement with magnetic and great combo starters. Why is he bad? Grab release glitch when fighting marth.
Melee DK: powerful grab game, hits hard, has really good frame data on his up b, and his bair is like jigglypuffs. Weaknesses? He has a hard time in neutral when he is front-facing you, has a big body, and can't go off stage to edgeguard unless he tries to get the initial up b.
Smash 64 link: great projectile game, decent combo starter and enders, and has good range being the only swordy. Weaknesses? That non-existent recovery, kind of slow, and other characters can more consistently shield pressure and 0-death.
Cammy got blessed with being good in later games because she was so bad in ST
And Vega got punished with being bad or mediocre because he was extremely degenerate in ST
Potemkin because grappler is my favorite archetype and he's interesting enough of a grappler that I don't get bored with him unlike lets say Birdie.
"Her share in the bullshit market"
they clipped my boi Zatos wings in strive. He was amazing after eddie meter buff...then they effed up his wings (and sf6 launched lol) so I havent played him since..i miss him ;_;
ZATO players must pay for their sins
“With time investment like this I’m basically a GG scholar now”
Unironically, you’ve played GG for longer than most GG fans on Twitter 😅
Can you explain the DHC glitch?