I think if slugging is actually better and this miserable then it needs to be talked about from a balancing Pov. Relying on Killers being empathetic enough to not use advanced tactics because their opponents might not enjoy the match is probably not enough.
@Cazzyy Dog could not agree more i get alot of text that oh they left and gift or did something for me. I'm the killer I'm ment to kill you and prolong your suffering for the entity everything else is legit extra and good amount of killer simply want to kill and not farm.
It really is how most survivors simply don't understand game sense and the hidden aspects of dbd that the long term players understand and most simply refuse to learn. The killer can only be in 1 place at that time can't stress enough how most my games I see 2 survivors grouped up insta unhooking making blatant mistakes that they themselves aren't aware of. Sluging even with a build 4 man is more work than playing the game. The game where the 4 man slugging worked the survivors weren't thinking making miskae after mistake and ther rare fun is high mobility killers but even then you're simply better off hooking.
37:40 She said the killers were playing normally for the control matches, so they are probably using whatever their generally preferred build is, it’s not a 100% commitment to using hook perks
For anyone wondering why she couldn't get data for Ghostface, Demgorgon, or Twins, I'll list the reasons below. Ghostface: Their mains refused to use a tactic that precluded the possibility of using their funny mori. Demogorgon: Their mains refused to use a tactic that made everyone else in the match have a bad time. Based, good boys. Twins: Their 2 mains thought the request was just a troll, as they didn't know DbD has hooks on the maps.
Genuinely i don't have fun the higher mmr i get into this game. Yesterday i lost 4/5 matches to killers running essentially the same builds, every killer just being someone with a ranged attack to hit over vaults and pallets using surge, pain resonance, then two aura reading perks normally lethal persuer and something like predator or zanshin tactics & slugging for the 4k on top of that. The only game i "won" was a bubba running iron grasp, franklins demise, noed, and insidious who was face camping on the hook and hard tunneling. It honestly gets so boring
@@tmoney1487 I don’t play to win anymore. It’s better for my enjoyment and plus I play mainly solo que so I don’t have much of a choice. If I get a good save, I loop decent or make a strong play I’m happy. Killer I try to play the same way. But I’ve found running only aura on stronger killers tends to make everyone a bit happier and I still will walk out with a 3k most matches if I play the killer often. While I do think the game leans towards killer by design and patch wise as of late I think it’s fairly balanced if not the best it’s been balanced. The new aura chase perks with the death of distortion has created a rougher time in chase but I think the rationale is that people will run less slow down. However on strong killers the new aura is not really needed. It just makes matches tougher vs already strong killers. They need to cut the value of pred and zan in half encouraging lethal guaranteeing 2 perk slots are likely going to be used to make up for the faster down times. But that’s just what I think at the moment.
@Idontknowwhat2type I dont nessecarily play to win either, the builds i bring are based around stealth or healing. Sometimes i use Invocation, resiliance, dejavu, and iron will for gen speeds but i feel like thats not really even try harding. But I'm still not going to enjoy myself if i lose 80% of my games, when i just go in to "have fun" yet all the killers i play against are extremely sweaty playing their optimal builds and using their most optimal playstyles and using 4d chess level mind games to get the 4k. Its like loading up a game of CoD and going into a casual lobby just to have someone on the enemy team go 102-7 and single handedly lower your overall KD by 10%. I cant find fun in getting shit on over and over game after game. And i dont play the hell that is called solo queue, if i play solo then its because im playing killer. Close to if not more than 50% of my solo games on survivor have ended with someone killing themselves on hook, someone working with the killer, or someone hiding & ratting deciding not to do any objectives. I cant simply turn my brain off in those circumstances and lie to myself saying "oh well at least i had fun because i gave the killer a tour of the map"
This is very true. I have over 5k hours into Survivor ALONE. I literally cannot escape 95% of my matches. So utterly fed up with Survivor gameplay I JUST DONT DO IT. Only play DBD for the Killer row. Have 1k into Huntress alone and damn near win all my games. Skilled or not, the survivors usually stand no chance. It's very rare I lose as Huntress. It's even more rare to find a 4 man swf with every player being highly skilled to make chases last. I rather throw in a PS2 game from my childhood and play that instead. Fk Survivor gameplay.
Classic guy who tries to slap the controller out of someone's hand so they can win in smash bros. You decided to stop playing because I'm annoying so I get free kills! Go me!
When I watched her video I agreed with the sentiment in the comments that if a killer comes in with a build solely to slug there isn't anything you can do. Most people make their builds on the assumption people will be hooked with a little tunneling from the killer so they can create pressure. The same way if everyone started running Rebeccas perk with stakeout and brand new parts a killer can never really do anything about that because they're assuming survivors will bring perks to get into and deal with chase and maybe one person with some gen perks. So yeah if everyone knows a slugfest is about to go down a killer will never win cause we're gonna live forever will ruin their plans but nobody assumes this so it gets way too much value and honesty it's so boring being on the floor waiting to bleed out and fun in a game should always be taken into consideration it's their whole point for existing.
Maybe for SWF the killer wouldn't win, but solo queue is rather easy to 4k slug. Not only have I tested a slug build, but I went against a billy with only 2 perks (Deerstalker and the crow perk) which got them a slugging 4k in less than 7 minutes with 2 of the people (myself included) running WGLF
I usually run healing builds and just one survivor with 5 token Autodidact can completely tank a slug/no healing killer build in some matches. I’ve had multiple games where I end up with 10+ heals and while it’s usually very close in those cases, the killer usually can’t keep up and they don’t know it’s happening. I don’t come across people playing different builds outside the meta or just random, non-cohesive perks often, more people branching out with their loadout and throwing off the killer’s expectations would be nice though
It's not about assumption, it's about Meta in your server some people might not even know Slug is Meta so it's pretty hard to predict every single match and pretty boring to bring perks to counter a strat that might not be in play this match.
@@betaslothyeah that’s true I seen that myself but people will adapt and start bribing WGLF or unbrekable in solo q. Ever since Scott talked about the slugging situation the first time I been using unbreakable because I’m not gonna run a killer for 3+ then he slug me the. Insta down my Ai teammates cus they can’t run a killer. So I can get myself back up and make a comeback.
The thing about slugging, is it's REALLY strong on the best killers in the game, and quite useless on the worst killers in the game. Unluckily for us survivor players, the people who tend to main the best killers in the game also tends to be the most insufferable and toxic, so this strategy goes hand-in-hand with a lot of the S-tier killer mains.
@@GG-kn2se As someone who mained solo queue for almost a year straight when no one of my friends were playing at the time, i'll just say that the only times someone ever pulled of a 4-man slug was either when it was a Nurse, Blight and the occasional Plague. I know solo players are known for being incompetent, but they were never THAT incompetent that they got like 4-man slugged against a Freddy or something.
@@Lars-Liam-Vilhelm Billy’s and Oni’s are good at it too. Most Billy’s don’t go for it but I’ve ran into some that are all in on slugging. Also I’ve definitely gotten 4 slugs with Freddy before but it was also definitely the survivors fault and usually I’d say they were probably SWFs trying to Bully.
The problem is that the average player is not a competitive SWF and aren't equipped to deal with the onslaught of extreme killer tactics. That also means you're forced into using specific builds which defeats the whole purpose of having all of these perks.
Hate tunneling, use anti tunnel perks. Hate slugging, use anti slug perks. Hate losing too often in chase, use more chase perks. Hate gen regression, use gen rushing perks. Hate aura reading, use object of obsession. I swear some people think survivors just have unlimited perk slots, or omniscient knowledge of how the killer is going to play before the match even begins. You bring one build to counter a specific playstyle you dont like then end up getting no value out of it for most of your games because not everyone plays that way. Its like rolling the dice every single game you play.
Had a nurse trying to 4 man slug us the other day and had literally 2 people with wglf and got a 3 man out that game because of it. Sooooo much value and I didn't know why we had 2 people in my lobby running that perk. And the nurse was running knockout for her slugging build so we just jumped into lockers each time to counter knockout.
With all the recent fuzz of killers slugging and what not, WGLF has become more and more popular to counter the slugging. I personally run it along side MFT since (if injured) if I manage to heal a survivor on the ground we both get endurance.
I tried the experiment as Nurse and I got a 2x2-man DC in the first game and they also had either 2 or 3 WGLFs. Please do not only use second chance and anti-tunnel perks, have variety so you are prepared.
I'm a huge proponent of using your hook stages/states as a weapon. The problem in solo queue is that your average solo teammate will start flailing around as soon as the killer is out of the area. If you leave them on the hook for 20 seconds plus after the killer leaves, the chances for them to off themselves goes up substantially
I was going to say the same thing. Even if someone is aware they can be on the hook for a minute and not die, its basically asking someone to "take one for the team" and sit on the hook, not playing the game, for over a minute and most people don't want to do that. They want to play the game. And that's assuming they don't just kill themselves because someone didn't *immediately* start coming for the save and how dare you wait for the killer to not be 20 feet away. And then there's the chance something goes wrong. You're on the hook a while, not minding because two gens are almost done. Someone finishes and starts coming to you, but the killer intercepts them, and now you're on the next hook state. Its very risky unless you're actually coordinating.
@@divineknight9261 Yep, exactly. Unless I'm communicating, I've started to just wait 20 seconds, until they start throwing their arms up, or whenever someone else gets in chase to go for the unhook. Last thing I want is the killer to get another down close to the hook and then be able to patrol between the slug and the hook. While I do agree with Scott that situationally, the 70 seconds can be extremely useful if the killer is hanging out around the hook waiting for the unhook, it's not always the best option to leave them on the hook for 68 seconds.
I don't understand not being patient in unhook situations personally but its because I just start wiggling my arms like I'm dancing and if it takes too long to get me off hook I just read something on my second monitor until I get unhooked.
For someone like me that came from a other 4v1 game, in which we would ONLY save at the last second (about mid, and about to end), to make people being on gen more, this makes me so confused why people on dbd do that..
@Eldritch_Construct yeah I think that's the problem is just not being able to read intent. If I see someone start throwing their arms up, I assume it's them saying "no one is coming for me, I'm going to start forcing 2nd stage soon." When they could just be doing it because they're bored. I've just been so conditioned to survivors in my lobby giving up lately that I don't take the chance that they'll stay
@@systembeard6959Ah so i can play vs bots every single match because i was winning too hard/the map wasnt to a survivor's liking/my killer counters their build/they just don't like the killer i'm playing
@@systembeard6959 Surely you realize that if it were like that half your matches if not more would be just a DC fest? Why even play the game at that point? You don't sound like you put any thought into this. The game would be unplayable.
my main issue with the experiment is that it uses 4ks as its main focus. the games balanced around a 60-40, i think people confused being frustrated with killer to killer being weak.
@@TurbulentEitri it depends, sometimes you have two survivors alive at the end of the game you kill one and the other gets out via door there for according to the experiment you lose.
@@bratsss I'm glad killers are stronger, it's just it goes both ways survivor fun is determined by how the killer wants to play. (Insert shitty comment of "your fun is not my job etc etc")
@@jamestercool4412 Oh, no! I completely agree. Every trial certainly depends on how the killer plays. I was just affirming that many Killers believe because they have a bad outcome, that it means he is weak. But that's not true.
That whole tru3 situation is nuts. I've seen scott's stuff for years now. I had no idea he was even capable of that level of hatred. Tru3 is kind of brash at times, but he didn't deserve all that. If you google his name, all you see is lies and controversies. I don't think he'll ever come back from all that
@@loopyshot3326 th-cam.com/video/xqLk8Nu7fGM/w-d-xo.htmlsi=yiFfAwYic7BNsnYM Documentary about all the stuff Scott and his boys put Tru3 through. I had no idea about this stuff
to say that slugging makes people mentally check out therefore making the results 'artificial' is akin to saying that trash talking to reduce an opponents morale to make them mess up is also an artificial influence. Easy example being League of Legends Teemo and or Singed. both very bad champions generally, but they will mentally ruin you causing you to mess up. if slugging genuinely causes people to give up, then that isnt artificial but a literal product of the play style.
That is really not the same, sure the insult has potential to get a reaction, and therefore messing up your performance. But actively forcing someone to do nothing will cause them to get bored, and that 100% will have an impact as people are winning. Not because it’s stronger, but due to how boring it is. Old Chessmerchant wasn’t unbeatable, but no one in there right mind would want to waste any time facing that
ive had people start killing themselves on hook because im not unhooking them immediately. example im doing a gen right by their hook, ready to unhook when it gets close so it's a double edged sword with the whole ''use the time of a hook stage wisely'' but i agree and wish it was like that
Some people don't understand how to play the game and don't get that by unhooking them early, you are not only giving away your position, but you are also making it so that your gen that's almost complete will get kicked.
Also, he acts like it is a resource, it really isn't. A person on hook is doing nothing but contributing to dying. If they are unhooked they can loop, heal, do a gen, cleanse a totem etc. 1/4 players on hook at all times is just 1v3 which is the same complaint as someone quitting in the first place. And if my team doesn't rescue me before I reach second hook state I'm not doing those skill checks. Because I'm just going to be moried or instantly killed in 1 minute anyway. That's a ruined game. Unless I'm in a 4 man swf I have zero confidence in recovering from going 2 hook states without rescue.
I feel like there's a note that hook pressure by nature makes the killer more divided around objectives. The survivor isn't doing "nothing"- if the killer is any good, they're proxying or at least keeping track of the situation around the hook, and it's valuable to waste their time. @@corvusaurem
@@corvusaurem It is a resource though? If a killer comes back to check hook or is hovering they are literally wasting time(The most valuable resource in life and in the game) because that person isn't getting unhooked instantly.
We desperately need more stringent safeguards against things like this. We cant keep expecting players to play with empathy and sportsmanship to keep things like this from happening
majority of the killer cast cant 4 man slug consistently. not to mention, you dont gain as much pressure as you do from hooking into pain res, pop, grim, etc. youre going to have outliers such as blight, nurse, oni, but lets talk majority. just slug when its needed and youll be fine
I hope that video doesn't lead to Slugging as the meta Killer play. Solo Q can be insufferable enough as it is! This video assumes that all Survviors are as sweaty as the Killers who participated in the video. Not evvery trial will have Survivors coming in with the same mindset, perks, or even objectives (e.g. doing a Daily Ritual, Tome challenge etc.).
@@CelicaSNC No i know that but im saying, it doesn't make slugging less prevalent since you can still just 4 man slug and THEN hook everybody to still get the bp
Loaded into a game last night, saw it was SM and insta DCd. It was Revvium. Watched him proceed to spend the next 15 minutes trying to to four slug. My penalty was 1 minutes without queue. Triple win for insta dc
eye opening. scott demonized an innocent man for the sake of “i don’t like him”. blamed him for ableism and racism when in reality, scott was the only one saying ableist and racist things. any ounce of respect i had left for scott just jumped out a window.
Was skeptical at first, but tried it out on doctor to a shockingly effective result. Coordination seemed to be the largest detriment to the playstyle with other killers, but the doctor interupting and location information was insane. Super cool experiment regardless.
Playing doctor is like playing killer on easy mode, not enough people talk about him. His ability has built in slowdown having to stop and hit skill checks to reduce madness from tier 3 on top of location reveals and he can run impossible skill check builds to great effect. Not to mention his ability essentially grants him undetectable during chase making it very hard to predict mind games with him. And he can just straight up prevent vaults and pallet drops from happening, guranteeing free hits most of the time. I love playing doctor from time to time, even if survivors hate me for it.
@@tmoney1487 his power does guarantee a hit eventually but since it removes bloodlust it can still take a long chase against competent survivors. He's better than some give him credit for but he really struggles in high MMR.
@@tmoney1487 You're hyping him up way too much. If just guaranteeing free hits is what makes a killer good (not those hits being timely at all) then original Legion was better than Nurse. Doc ain't the worst by any means, but he's not an easy mode unless you're going against survivors that don't understand what Doctor even does.
Its like I was saying in an earlier thread. Slugging is just way more stress free and effective for killer, and I won way more and felt less cheated overall. When I'm hooking im constantly freaking out at every second that im wasting and the wiggling forcing me to run into walls and freaking out over boil over. Simply deciding not to do that did wonders for my blood pressure.
"Slugging has built in hatch protection so that will skew the data" ..... Slugging has an advantage in hatch inherently and so it should be included as part of its advantages, to exclude it for no reason would be the same as looking at a killer and discounting their power "Nurse is bad in chase, it's just blink allows her to cut loops so if we discount that she is actually the worst killer in a chase"
Issue is not due to the fact they have protection, but on Carn’s definition of a win. A 3k is a win period whether the survivors get hatch or not. Carn making the win condition only being a 4k skews the data. As she openly criticizes giving up on hook, yet that would inherently give hooking an advantage. Which she didn’t bring up
Scott Jund The man The myth The hypocrite Disgusting what you’ve done to Tru3 knowing fully well you’ve just been attacking him for no reason whatsoever. Call it jealousy or just a dckhead. Tru3 deserves an apology
Honestly I think that survivors that were unhooked and/or have endurance should not be able to bodyblock the killer. Just make them lose collision entirely. No bodyblocking the killer, and in turn they can for example get out of the basement easier if unhooked there.
Bro I have been saying this before the basekit BT was a thing. Let survivors lose collision until they do a conspicuous action. It prevents them from body blocking the killer (or other survivors) with OTR and it prevents the killer from aggressively tunneling them.
@@Eldritch_Construct They can keep collision with other survivors active then (even though I think survivor griefing via bodyblocking is an issue even sometimes unintentionally), even so they are putting themselves in a horrible situation if they choose to take an endurance hit
It compounds with every other non weaponized perk. Do we want to discuss the sheer timesave if we think of a 4 stack running just Renewal/We'll Make It? Does it matter if we call anything weaponized if it all contributes to hooking granting mindnumbingly marginal time gained back for the killer?
That never made sense to me. If someone goes for the unhook and the guy with DS body blocks you can wait or hit, regardless it'll probably take around the same time. You can slug the guy assuming he has DS and chase the unhooker. That's half the team not doing gens.
Yeah, If you use it counter to it's purpose it typically makes you the best target to go for. An obvious example is people trying to take the BT at base hit, instead of using it for it's intended purpose of you being able to get away and make it to the next loop. If you body block and force me to hit you, then you become my best target. Because typically they have higher hook stages. Same would hold true for DS if you use it to take chase rather than get away from one, don't get upset when you get what you're asking for.
Guys, we don't have to keep commenting for Scott to react to the Tru3 documentary. He's just gonna deflect it and enjoy the interaction on his video. Just walk away, fellas.
@@makatuk93 The ego of the racist, ableist, evidence deleting narcissist that is Scott Jund will only let him refrain from saying something for so long. Poke him enough, and he will take action.
I think one of the biggest things to take into consideration when it comes to anti-slugging perks is how often they can come into play; OTR works only to protect you from a hit off the hook once, whilst WGLF can get far more value since it can be used as many times as you're slugged. A well-placed Exponential that the killer takes forever to find will get infinitely more value than Decisive can. Soul Guard even has its own niche, where a hex perk lets you pick yourself up as many times as you want, as long as a hex perk is left up.
I think the reason the doctor player said that they prefer slugging over hooking is because the doctor can prevent people from healing and picking people off the ground if they're in madness tier 3
you waking up to all these new comments calling you out should be your sign that you only got one way out if you still dont see it like that good luck lol
@@Youre-absolutely-right the cat was never in the bag. Nothing said in this documentary was a revelation. All of it existed 4 years ago. Like I said tru3 fans will be mad for a week and move on.
@@DJ5540 I didn't know about Scott's discord, nor the fact he r'd on there so much, nor did I see him get any consequences for that. True has had a LOT of harrassing happen to him on the other hand. Yeah, I wonder why people are mad..
Hello Mr. Jund, I made the slugging build for HonestPanda. In fact, I made 3 for him, but that was the one he enjoyed the most. It was personally not my favorite out of the 3, but a lot of consideration went into it, all the way down to the add-ons. The one I liked was a lot meaner and harder to beat, while this one was more fun to play as, and had quicker games due to the more aggressive playstyle it has. We concluded that nurse's calling, OSS Report and Footprint Cast were essential to making the best slug builds on unknown. If you want to chat or go into detail about the perk choices or any of the other slug builds I'd love to.
Saying this as a surv main Hooks need to matter more that's one of the main issues. The game is revolved around how many kills you get that if you get 12 hooks and everyone escapes the game doesn't recognize it as a close match. I think until the dev's start making hooks matter more than just tunneling someone for a kill the game is going to slowly but surely just turn into a slugging meta more and more. I do think unbreakable should be base kit *if* a killer tries to slug right off the bat at the start of the game and the survivor is down for a certain amount of time. I don't really see why survivors should use up a perk slot to negate a killer slugging (in a non skillful way such as just slugging for the sake of bleeding everyone out)
I tried watching the video in question before Scott's run. I got to the point where she described the 10 second hook extensions being "controversial" and pretty much stopped. I have never cared how much time survivors have to unhook when I play killer. I still do not understand this warped psychology that leads to killers saying someone is "forcing DS" against them. OTR wastes 3 seconds and puts a tunnel victim back in harm's way. That's it.
Them 10 seconds do put in work sometimes, but i feel like its less game changing than allot of people make it out to be. Like some people just sound mad they dont get a free hook state because solo queue survivors are being slow with the unhook.
One of the things you bring up a lot is how the individual killers' builds have too much variance, aren't hookey enough, aren't tryhard enough etc etc, but the point of the 10 control matches is to take 10 games of that killer players *normal gameplay*, then the slugging games are "What if this player now swaps to this strategy" For the Nemesis section, wherein you wonder if they got someone who isnt very good at Nemesis.. That was the #2 Nemesis main Horcerer >o>
Just saw an example of WGLF being insanely useful against slugging on Otz's stream yesterday. All completely soloQ against a pretty decent Billy, but one person with WGLF constantly gave everyone endurance and the killer only got 1 kill at the very end of the game
Scott probably won’t see this but I do really hope he makes some kind of response because if things like his discord messages were real I really dont think I feel comfortable watching him. I never watched his videos on tru3 when he was making them but all the messages are really concerning even if they were more than 4 years ago
Yeah only a few minutes in and kind of the fundamental flaw with this experiment is that tunneling/hooking is "meta" and 4man slugging isn't. There's no way to compare them in a neural environment where people are equally prepared for both. It's impossible to say if slugging would still be more effective if players were set up to play around it, especially since people die a lot slower on ground and can reposition while doing it unlike on hooks.
When the killer kicks my gen right near where they hooked a survivor, they will likely instantly come back when they see that unhook happen. Especially when I see no other teammates on gens, I will sit on the gen for as long as possible trying to finish the gen first while that person hangs next to me. I already know that all my teammates being useless, not on gens, are just salivating over that unhook so I let them come do it instead.
Or you can just wait till killer starts a chase then they have to either choose to leave chase and come for the unhook or stick chase and let the unhook go.
so we know now that slugging doesn't help. the moment slugging becomes common, the perks kill the strat entirely. This only works because barely anyone brings perks to counter it. Most survivors had tunneling in mind when building perks, so lots had no perks, teammates who gave up quicker because of slugging, and the kill rates are incredibly close when you actually consider 3k + hatch = 4k (which you should) it's such a minute difference that again, is only working due to survivors not bringing anti slug. The longer killers try this, the worse the build will get. Dbd will probably also add some sort of anti slug base kit, then this method is fully dead
Off rip. The reason the hook stages going to 70 seconds is a made up problem... they are trying to incentivize u to leave the hook and the survivors to do anything useful at all. You shouldn’t be expecting survivors to second stage from first hook so at the end of the day 10 seconds is only going to help pinch off a save at the last second of a proxy camp or cross all of ormond. When I saw the first few minutes of this video I meant to leave this comment but I forgot. Extend3d hook timers only affects killers who won’t leave the hook. You should expect survivors to make saves regardless and it’s your fault if the only pressure you can create is a proxy camp. Enter slugging
On your live stream yesterday you said the person who made the documentary never reached out to you. However they responded saying they reached out to you months ago. So is he lying, are you lying? Hearing about the stuff you, your wife and Zubat has done. Such as the discord stuff. It’s really sad to find out that you’d be so cruel and apathetic. I don’t even know if I should believe you on it either. Since if you can’t even recall a message that was sent to you months ago that does exist. You lost some reliability right there.
And he keeps saying that Tru3 is digging up 4 year old drama and yet he clearly wasn't the one that made the documentary. What a b*tch move on Scott's part that again shows his true colours.
doctor (and trapper but thats not what im commenting for) from the experiment here. the reason i felt slugging games were easier was not only because games were faster, but also because less gens were done (an average of 1.6 versus my hooking matches averaging at 2.1). i kinda knew doc was good at it before the experiment since id already toyed around with it myself in the past, its really because of all docs anti heal and tracking potential, especially since the anti heal from tier 3 madness also applies to picking up downed teammates, and the hallucinations from king giving even more tracking on top of all the screams, and queen literally telling me whenever someone was trying to pick up their teammate (and before someone asks, coulrophobia isnt worth taking over the slowdown perks, and sloppy covers it fine since whenever i interrupt a heal by putting them on tier 3 with a static blast hemmorhage will completely reset it) one last note, even though i think doctor is an incredibly strong slugger, i dont think its necessarily stronger than hooking if the team youre up against really knows what theyre doing. theres also rare cases where the team isnt good enough to negate your snowball, but they are good enough to just barely keep up and eventually youve gotten so many downs that you couldve just killed someone off already if youd hooked, it happened in one of my slug matches where the match was 17 minutes and they got 4 gens done, i got so many downs that surge completely on its own got a generator to hit 8 regression events, i couldve wrapped up the match far sooner if id just hooked instead, though that was the only slug game where more than two gens got done. anyway not that carn didnt do an excellent job summarizing what i said, i just love explaining doctor (if you couldnt tell already) and also figured id explain why i felt slugging was easier since the gens completed count wasnt shown. thats all ive got, this experiment cost me my soul but i loved getting the data!
He said he counts someone getting hatch himself as a 4K. So he didn’t understand if hatch was a component or not for the 4K win condition because they’re essentially exactly the same
Looking forward to seeing you defend yourself against this one. Occurring stuff like this usually paints a big picture. You better go delete some more evidence.
And here I was, watching Scott's videos for the past 2 years having no idea about what was happening in the background. Can't wait for your reaction to your exposure man. Didn't expect such hateful and inconsiderate behaviour from you. Imagine calling people "tarded" just for fun, and actually getting off on it, from the looks of it. The amount of hate I'll probably receive from your fans will be insane, just as your thought process is, but like you said, "streamers rub off on their audience", by which statement I pity your audience if they ever follow your example of a debate, or should I say witch hunt? That'd be much more accurate. Really hope you'll learn something from this, as you seem mature enough to get past this childish behaviour, but we'll have to see if that's true.
His massive amounts of racism must be part of his family tradition i hope he issues an apology to every group affected by his racism and the fans he turned into racist too he needs to apologize to blm too
Her data sample is a lot better than you're giving it credit for. Having each killer give 10 games for hooking and 10 games for slugging means that the two sides did have a fair comparison on player skill, killers chosen, etc. Because each player is using the same killer the whole time and equally putting games into each bucket. So the skill per game between the two buckets is exactly the same. We obviously have no balancing of survivor skill. But we don't have any way to do so. Just as big as possible of sample size to help average it out. I'd even argue it goes a decent way to normalize for builds being different between the two as long as we accept that we're comparing between slugging build + playstyle against hooking build + playstyle. If Reaper tells me that this is pinhead's best hooking build and this is pinhead's best slugging build, that's about as close to the correct answer as I'm likely to find. And if you don't like kills as a metric because of hatch, use gens completed instead which was also presented. Obviously bigger sample size is always better. But she did a lot of things right with the data collection process. It was really well done for what it is. I'm not saying it's perfect, but I wouldn't dismiss everything on this basis.
@@Roommates_Stories there's a video on tru3talent that mentions Scott and how he has a lot of the blame for Tru3s image. Things like how he attacked his character. Feel free to look it up, form your own opinion
The issue with this is unbreakable ds. Both perks are still viable together and i wouldnt be surprised that survivors will start running it again after this Video
If you have anything less than a 4 man swf, the risk of the random killing themselves on hook is too high to leave them for any significant time unfortunately. I wish attitudes towards solo q would improve, because it's not bad when you know what you're doing and confident in supporting people you can't comm with. I've met many of my best teammates by queuing up by myself and basically running those matches like they're swf tryouts lol. Surv perks I'd recommend if people are dealing with a lot of slugging: -Plot twist has a fun effect where, if you time it like dead hard, you still scream when you drop! This can be used to create the illusion that you're pausing chase to beg for your life. -Tenacity is underrated point blank period. A map with any grass or corners means the killer is gonna lose you quick if they don't pick up immediately. Please stop staying in a pile for the killer to hover over multiple players at once, crawling different directions will create valuable pressure. I've gotten hatch and been called a hacker so many times over this 1 perk. -Boon: Expo not only let's you pick yourself up, but it's also much faster to recover yourself. Holding the run button prevents teammates from healing, and helps them recognize the boon isn't CoH. Bring a rainbow map and move on to a different totem when it gets snuffed. Among others, I find these 3 incredibly effective!
@@tasmium The vindictive way teammates play the team side of this 4v1 game is so baffling it's actually hilarious. I'm begging, BHVR pls add Patrick Bateman as a surv.
@@qwikscopez6619i saw a reply of his on another comment saying "its not my responsibility to make sure my opponents have fun in a pvp game". Apparently he doesn't care about his teammates having fun either. Definitely has never had fun playing this game lmao.
Every time someone brings up nightlight stats I can't help but roll my eyes. Yes, it's the only publicly available stats we have but it is also only representative of like 1% of the playerbase.
@Scot Jund Your counterpoints in this video are both EXTREMELY bias'd against slugging and also genuinely feel like your actively trying to ignore the reality that is staring you in the face. Here's the REAL take away from this data. (as flawed as it may be) Slugging IS definitively more effective and stronger on a number of killers UNDISPUTUDABLY so. The following is a exhaustive list of killers from this data where going for a 4 man slug win con is demonstrably stronger than going for a hook based approach : nurse, billy, leatherface, pinhead, larry, artist, dracula, dredge, unknown, trickster, huntress and finally an honorable mention the TWINS because fucking obviously. Here is another point to illustrate one of the problems I have with your video, in your video you were extremely fixated on the dc% of slugging vs hooking games. This approach is flawed in a number of ways, firstly, when you slug someone they can't kill themselves on the hook like the can in a hook based game. This means all the people that would normally have just fucking killed themselves on the hook is going to instead dc as it is their next best alternative to playing that match. This data did not include suicide on first hook which is a flaw of the study IMO and more important serves to unfairly paint the number of people disconnecting from slugging games vs people killing themselves on hook in hook games. Secondly, if someone kills themselves on hook OR if someone disconnects, the result is different, in one instance the person is gone irrevocably and the match is immediately a 3v1 which under the majority of situations is a complete loss for the survivor team. When someone disconnects THEY get a bot that can still actively progress the gamestate, they aren't perfect as the bots are genuinely pretty terrible, but THEY STILL progress their objective if uninterrupted. This means matches where people disconnect should be HARDER than games where they kill themselves on hook, this isn't what your seeing in the data however, and that is for a VERY simple reason. People kill themselves on hook at a FAR lower rate, than they disconnect when they encounter things they don't enjoy facing. What all this shit means is that if you slug, you are on AVERAGE more likely to win than if you don't PURELY because the amount of people that just quit is significantly higher than those that choose to continue and keep playing. This is an outcome of taking advantage of human psychology and the tendencies of the playerbase. If nothing else were to be considered or evaluated here, the reality is YOU WILL WIN MORE OF YOUR MATCHES SLUGGING than if you don't BECAUSE SURVIVOR GIVE YOU MORE FREE WINS WHEN YOU DO THAT. This means it is OBJECTIVELY better to do if your goal is to win MORE GAMES. A final point, you argued that if such a meta were to become commonplace that survivors would simply adapt to the new meta and run slugging perks like plot twist and unbreakable to counter it. To that I say, enjoy the the game of fitness trade-offs. You are correct, that it would make the slugging strategy weaker, counter point however, NOW your not running shit to stop tunneling / increase your chase time / increase your gen speed. By running these perks over them you are directly making yourself weaker to either strategy, this is the problem with your argument. If players noticed a shit ton of wglf, unbreakable, plot twist and made for this, they would simply go back to hooking, tunneling and slugging more, running more gen regression perks again. Regardless of WHAT the survivor picks they are not able to adequately prepare for both possibilities. This is the problem with such an argument and for PROOF OF THIS, you can see by the data from nightlight, the perks that do counter this are FAR less common than the ones that counter OTHER THINGS. Overall I feel like you really just tried to paint the idea of 4 man slugging entirely as something as completely unviable and not worth pursuing at all. This is both disingenuous to the data and selfish to your audience scot.
Hes both the type of person to say "This isnt a viable way to play the game" then turn around and go "I dont play this way so it doesnt cause these problems for me"
11:29 Running empathy allows you to see where injured survivors are just about anywhere on the map. Unless you're going up against a killer that utilizes expose mechanics, it's safe to assume that a survivor will be injured before getting downed. Thereby giving you an opportunity to see where they are before they get put into the downed state.
@@d0b1k16 Scott, his wife and Zubatlel went after Tru3's reputation by labelling him as an "ableist" and "racist" and basically created a witch hunt that ultimately negatively affected Tru3's image and caused a lot of hate and harassments towards him. Only because they simply did not like Tru3. Lots of lies were said and words were twisted to make him look bad. They also had a private Discord channel that they used to make fun of Tru3 and say a ton of nasty shit towards him and a racist comment about Indian people made by Scott himself (the irony lol). I HIGHLY recommend you watching the documentary, it actually is a good watch.
Yeah. It would be interesting to see how he explains his hypocrisy in calling the man and his fans "ableist" and "racist" when he turned around and used such language himself. He's just a bully, and the way he treated Tru3 in that situation was genuinely disheartening. I'm not implying that Tru3 is perfect, but Scott could at least supply evidence of the rhetoric he once claimed rather than ignore it. It's gross.
I don’t like tru3 but calling him racist and ableist while calling people “Indian hard r” is literally worse in every way then the “who sent you Indians here “ what true said. Interested to see Scott’s excuses
@Csrattic What Tru3 said there wasn't even bad, he was just calling them Indians, he didn't imply anything negative by it, just pointing out where they're from. Meanwhile, Scott was literally calling Indians the "R slur" in the discord straight up. But he's a coward and never owned up to his hypocrisy. I've yet to see any actual evidence of Tru3 saying something genuinely racist or ableist either. Just people being disingenuous and purposely misinterpreting what he says to make it seem way worse than it was.
I hate the approach some people have to gaming. I'm not saying she has this approach but she constantly says in the video that slugging proved to be more effective than hooking as you don't have to deal with anti hook perks this or that etc... But at that point, who the hell cares. You're not playing for money, you're not playing for anything. Just play the god damn game. And please I don't wanna hear the argument of "killers should be able to play how they want or how they find it fun". To a certain extent I agree but it shouldn't come at the cost or detriment of others. Also waiting minutes and minutes on end to bleed out people is spiteful and not effective, and at that point you're just being an ass. I also find it funny that she says at the start of the video that the meta might shift and possibly lean more towards slugging, then says the WGLF buff was unwarranted. Like what lol. If you're actively making videos about why slugging is more effective or whatever then more killers will start to do so. I run WGLF and made for this when I can now because of stuff like this. I will never understand the mindset some people have when playing this game. Why some of them take it so seriously. I could never. It would ruin my experience with the game
Agree with half of your comment. If you're doing this strat for constant 4k's and victories, then yeah you're a dick. Personally, i think being "intentionally evil" is okay sometimes and how BVHR wants us to use this kind of builds. But people must admit that not everything will be fun/healthy for both sides and show a bit of tolerance, which severely lacks in this community.
"Optimizing the fun out" is a well documented phenomenon. If anyone plays a game enough they're going to settle on bizarre hyper optimized strategies as after a certain point they've run out of other things to do. One of the great failings of DbD is BHVR created a series of systems where optimal play can be deeply unfun for both sides simultaneously
i don't see how you could possibly believe that it's my responsibility to make sure my opponent in a PVP game is having fun. i'm there to win, and i happen to have the most fun when i try my hardest to win.
There's people out there for whom the most fun they have in a video game is trying their hardest to win and experimenting with the most effective strategies to do that. Saying people just "shouldn't play this way" is a silly approach to take to this phenomenon. If people had to only play in the ways their opponents found fun, every single multiplayer video game would be in the ground. If this is how somebody has fun, then so what if the opponent doesn't like it? It's the opponents job to learn how to counter it, to make it clear to the devs of whatever game they're playing that they think this is a problem and hopefully see changes to revert it, to suck it up and just accept that sometimes you'll have matches that aren't fun for you, or to just stop playing the game and do something else they find more fun. People always say "what about the other sides fun?" But for some reason that only ever applies to the side who isnt trying to win.
You should reply to trues documentary video. Can’t believe you did that back in the day. Wild behavior and didn’t expect it from you. Just disappointed.
Remember people don’t typically build around slugging but once they do (if it ever becomes prominent) then it’s gonna be hard to slug a survivor. You’ll be forced to do pick ups in certain cases.
@@alextorres5467 that’s true for now. I’m more or less pointing a finger at the possible future of things. But this statement of yours also can be made about anti tunnelling (or camping) as well
I think the REAL conversation we need to have is: “why DBD players refuse to admit they are terrible at playing killer and blame the devs for it?” I play only soloQ and I can count in one hand the amount of good killers. The majority straight up camp with Blight(one of the strongest killers) or they don’t split pressure and only chase one survivor from the start, I have seen them completely ignore someone on a gen right in their line of sight to chase a Meg insta dropping pallets + some players don’t even use the perks they bring. You think high MMR killers are good? No, they just camp on first hook or try any cheap way to 4K, if it fails they DC
Supporting argument to leaving people on hook when I'm soloqueuing: Please god, people, stop DC-ing if we don't come and unhook you immediately - my gen is at 70%
Something I say while doing this was the idea of being stressed and having so much to think about with the slugging matches was what I enjoyed the most about it. It was more quick decisions and no real down time from putting people on hooks effective or not the games felt more fast paced and I know i said "feast of famine" but the idea of either getting a 4k or a 0k almost every match is what slugging became and I enjoyed that a lot it was more tense for lack of a better word
Why is slugging so bad? I find if I stick it out, we turn it around most times, even in solo que. If you are slugged, you can move, albeit slow, but also you have infinite "slug stages," but 4 min total. Imagine instead of two 70 second hook stages you could have infinite but had to be on hook for 4 min, and no skillchecks while the timer was ticking. That would be stronger right? Now add you could slowly move the hook to a better position to get the save, or a bad position to camp if the killer is camping you. Why don't most survivors understand that? Slugging is only stronger because if you do it 80%, or more, of survivors will quit, or throw the match.
"deliverance should be basekit" uh no the fck it should not be?? i dont understand why peoples first instinct when it comes to balancing poorly designed game fundamentals is to just make literal meta perks basekit. how about they make corrupt basekit? what about pain res?
"She got a bunch of killers to slug" bro so this is why i was suddenly seeing so many killers slug everyone in my games. At first i thought it was nothing when you first made a video about it cause i wasnt getting any but now theyve grown to be in most my games lol
The problem with trying to take advantage of the 70 second hook timer is that more than likely if someone is on the hook more than 20 seconds they'll try to self unhook.
Going into this with the reasoning that hook timers got 10 seconds longer is a bit of a self report. Thats basically admitting that your game plan is "camp at 5"
I play solo queue a lot and this is a nightmare to go against because no one thinks or pays much attention. As much as I hate this playstyle and want it out of the game, I don't mind encouraging all the killers to play like this until the survivor player base starts mass quitting the game and then maybe BHVR does something to address it. However, I have used UB religiously for years now, so I use it 90%+ of my matches unless I'm doing a full synergy build. The potential for UB to counter this is actually insane, but it requires EVERYONE to be using UB and to know that everyone else is. If you treat getting slugged as a pseudo-hook phase that lasts 4 minutes, then you can look at it like having the classic Deliverance vs. a proxy/facecamping killer. You all spread out across the map as far away from each other as possible, once you get slugged you 99 your UB. If the killer slug camps you, you have up to 4 minutes to exclusively pressure generators. If they leave you to chase someone else, then you pick yourself up and use a medkit to reset yourself to healthy, and pressure gens/loop the killer to the best of your ability again. This will not work in solo queue though because it requires more coordination, and if you use your UB that way in solo queue, then you will most likely get your overly altruistic teammates slugged as well and it will be even harder to come back from that point. UB is mainly nice in solo for preventing that situation from occurring as quickly as possible before your teammates go on a mission to pick you up. You can also pair it with Sprint Burst and Hatch offering to bait chase when you are one out of two remaining survivors to loop the killer and buy your teammate time to do gens or for them to hide in a locker until you go down. Pray that the killer sweats for 4k leaving you slugged to 99 your UB while they look for the last survivor, pray they actually pick them up first instead, and then pray that they want to use the basekit mori on you while you patiently wait near the hatch spawn(but not too close because they might panic pick you up and hook you). And then UB+Sprint Burst in their face the INSTANT the hatch opens, or before they go to close it if that situation occurs instead. Pro tip: Keeping all the prior strategies in mind, you can also pair it with Soul Guard to guarantee value from your one and only UB at critical times, or to give yourself endurance if someone comes to pick you up in front of the killer. It even preserves your UB if you're hexed, until the hex is cleansed. Happy Surviving!
The problem is that this "experiment" affected many people's actual games. I've been being slugged every other match and I suspect this girl's "experiment" has something to do with it.
@@adamk.7177 Who cares if it had an effect on people's games? The killer can play the way they want to with literally no thought to the survivor's experience and vice versa for the survivors. As a killer, I'm not here to make the game fun for the survivors. The opposite is true, honestly.
@@Dizzifying1I wish more killers had this mindset. I'm on the other end of- I'm gonna try make it a fun game for everyone- but a consistency I respect.
For the person thinking "This must be boring for the Killer", why would it be..? They're still engaging in the full chase, still doing all the mindgames, all the gameplay is occurring there. The only difference is they're not picking the person up and putting them on a hook, why would that cause any huge shift of "boredom"?
5:50 We'll make it is arguably the best healing perk in the game and only activates after hook rescues, and lasts long enough to give value even when healing teammates that werent hooked.
Dude removed the truetalent documentary comment that was hear 2 hours ago. Went to watch the documentary and Scott Jund I can't believe you did that to a person. What's wrong with you calling people the R word and coordinating with Zubat to ruin someone reputation. Unfollowing.
@@shadyjalapenos It's hypocritical is what it is, "retard". No one is scared of the word but Scott is just being hypocritical calling tru3 out when he himself has said the word a recorded 200+ times in his private discord server. L take from you 💀
BHVR: We have seen the results of this experiment and have decided to reduce charges needed to complete gens, allow survivors to pick themselves up, removed the Blindness effect from Knockout, took Hex: Third Seal out back to get shot, and nerfed... *spins roulette wheel of killer perks* ... Unnerving Presence. Look forward to the next update where it's a toss-up on what mechanic breaks due to our poor coding.
120 mins of scott of not listening to the next/last thing or wondering if 3k was or was not a win....despite it being established right at the start XD
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I think if slugging is actually better and this miserable then it needs to be talked about from a balancing Pov. Relying on Killers being empathetic enough to not use advanced tactics because their opponents might not enjoy the match is probably not enough.
Yeah cause at that point it's bad game design
if it's better players will do it. The game has been relying on a good sportsmanship from players for too long and it's fallen apart
If only they introduced a finisher mori system and allowed survivors to pick them selves up base kit
@Cazzyy Dog could not agree more i get alot of text that oh they left and gift or did something for me. I'm the killer I'm ment to kill you and prolong your suffering for the entity everything else is legit extra and good amount of killer simply want to kill and not farm.
It really is how most survivors simply don't understand game sense and the hidden aspects of dbd that the long term players understand and most simply refuse to learn. The killer can only be in 1 place at that time can't stress enough how most my games I see 2 survivors grouped up insta unhooking making blatant mistakes that they themselves aren't aware of. Sluging even with a build 4 man is more work than playing the game. The game where the 4 man slugging worked the survivors weren't thinking making miskae after mistake and ther rare fun is high mobility killers but even then you're simply better off hooking.
37:40 She said the killers were playing normally for the control matches, so they are probably using whatever their generally preferred build is, it’s not a 100% commitment to using hook perks
For anyone wondering why she couldn't get data for Ghostface, Demgorgon, or Twins, I'll list the reasons below.
Ghostface: Their mains refused to use a tactic that precluded the possibility of using their funny mori.
Demogorgon: Their mains refused to use a tactic that made everyone else in the match have a bad time. Based, good boys.
Twins: Their 2 mains thought the request was just a troll, as they didn't know DbD has hooks on the maps.
@@RetryAgainAgain 🤣🤣🤣🤣
As a twins main so 3, can ask what is this hook you speak off?
Twins main for life 💪
For Twins they refused because they would have to play 10 games while hooking
Demos are based but not Gostfaces???
@@SqrunkTrep depends on the Ghostface.
You ain’t gotta worry about win rate if you can’t even find people willing to play the game anymore. Checkmate
Genuinely i don't have fun the higher mmr i get into this game. Yesterday i lost 4/5 matches to killers running essentially the same builds, every killer just being someone with a ranged attack to hit over vaults and pallets using surge, pain resonance, then two aura reading perks normally lethal persuer and something like predator or zanshin tactics & slugging for the 4k on top of that. The only game i "won" was a bubba running iron grasp, franklins demise, noed, and insidious who was face camping on the hook and hard tunneling. It honestly gets so boring
@@tmoney1487 I don’t play to win anymore. It’s better for my enjoyment and plus I play mainly solo que so I don’t have much of a choice. If I get a good save, I loop decent or make a strong play I’m happy.
Killer I try to play the same way. But I’ve found running only aura on stronger killers tends to make everyone a bit happier and I still will walk out with a 3k most matches if I play the killer often. While I do think the game leans towards killer by design and patch wise as of late I think it’s fairly balanced if not the best it’s been balanced. The new aura chase perks with the death of distortion has created a rougher time in chase but I think the rationale is that people will run less slow down. However on strong killers the new aura is not really needed. It just makes matches tougher vs already strong killers. They need to cut the value of pred and zan in half encouraging lethal guaranteeing 2 perk slots are likely going to be used to make up for the faster down times. But that’s just what I think at the moment.
@Idontknowwhat2type I dont nessecarily play to win either, the builds i bring are based around stealth or healing. Sometimes i use Invocation, resiliance, dejavu, and iron will for gen speeds but i feel like thats not really even try harding. But I'm still not going to enjoy myself if i lose 80% of my games, when i just go in to "have fun" yet all the killers i play against are extremely sweaty playing their optimal builds and using their most optimal playstyles and using 4d chess level mind games to get the 4k. Its like loading up a game of CoD and going into a casual lobby just to have someone on the enemy team go 102-7 and single handedly lower your overall KD by 10%. I cant find fun in getting shit on over and over game after game. And i dont play the hell that is called solo queue, if i play solo then its because im playing killer. Close to if not more than 50% of my solo games on survivor have ended with someone killing themselves on hook, someone working with the killer, or someone hiding & ratting deciding not to do any objectives. I cant simply turn my brain off in those circumstances and lie to myself saying "oh well at least i had fun because i gave the killer a tour of the map"
This is very true. I have over 5k hours into Survivor ALONE. I literally cannot escape 95% of my matches. So utterly fed up with Survivor gameplay I JUST DONT DO IT.
Only play DBD for the Killer row. Have 1k into Huntress alone and damn near win all my games. Skilled or not, the survivors usually stand no chance. It's very rare I lose as Huntress. It's even more rare to find a 4 man swf with every player being highly skilled to make chases last.
I rather throw in a PS2 game from my childhood and play that instead. Fk Survivor gameplay.
Classic guy who tries to slap the controller out of someone's hand so they can win in smash bros.
You decided to stop playing because I'm annoying so I get free kills! Go me!
When I watched her video I agreed with the sentiment in the comments that if a killer comes in with a build solely to slug there isn't anything you can do.
Most people make their builds on the assumption people will be hooked with a little tunneling from the killer so they can create pressure.
The same way if everyone started running Rebeccas perk with stakeout and brand new parts a killer can never really do anything about that because they're assuming survivors will bring perks to get into and deal with chase and maybe one person with some gen perks.
So yeah if everyone knows a slugfest is about to go down a killer will never win cause we're gonna live forever will ruin their plans but nobody assumes this so it gets way too much value and honesty it's so boring being on the floor waiting to bleed out and fun in a game should always be taken into consideration it's their whole point for existing.
Maybe for SWF the killer wouldn't win, but solo queue is rather easy to 4k slug. Not only have I tested a slug build, but I went against a billy with only 2 perks (Deerstalker and the crow perk) which got them a slugging 4k in less than 7 minutes with 2 of the people (myself included) running WGLF
I usually run healing builds and just one survivor with 5 token Autodidact can completely tank a slug/no healing killer build in some matches. I’ve had multiple games where I end up with 10+ heals and while it’s usually very close in those cases, the killer usually can’t keep up and they don’t know it’s happening. I don’t come across people playing different builds outside the meta or just random, non-cohesive perks often, more people branching out with their loadout and throwing off the killer’s expectations would be nice though
It's not about assumption, it's about Meta in your server some people might not even know Slug is Meta so it's pretty hard to predict every single match and pretty boring to bring perks to counter a strat that might not be in play this match.
@@betaslothyeah that’s true I seen that myself but people will adapt and start bribing WGLF or unbrekable in solo q. Ever since Scott talked about the slugging situation the first time I been using unbreakable because I’m not gonna run a killer for 3+ then he slug me the. Insta down my Ai teammates cus they can’t run a killer. So I can get myself back up and make a comeback.
@@betasloth especially if you’re running perks that only hurt Solo players (3rd Seal and Knockout)
The thing about slugging, is it's REALLY strong on the best killers in the game, and quite useless on the worst killers in the game. Unluckily for us survivor players, the people who tend to main the best killers in the game also tends to be the most insufferable and toxic, so this strategy goes hand-in-hand with a lot of the S-tier killer mains.
Calling it useless on other killers is straight up gaslighting solo q only players
This is a really good way to look at it
@@GG-kn2se As someone who mained solo queue for almost a year straight when no one of my friends were playing at the time, i'll just say that the only times someone ever pulled of a 4-man slug was either when it was a Nurse, Blight and the occasional Plague. I know solo players are known for being incompetent, but they were never THAT incompetent that they got like 4-man slugged against a Freddy or something.
@@Lars-Liam-Vilhelm Billy’s and Oni’s are good at it too. Most Billy’s don’t go for it but I’ve ran into some that are all in on slugging. Also I’ve definitely gotten 4 slugs with Freddy before but it was also definitely the survivors fault and usually I’d say they were probably SWFs trying to Bully.
I mean survivors created those toxic nurse and blight mains tbf. All those tbags and awful end game chats started it😂
Even if it is stronger, I want BloodPoints!
This guy actually plays
I’ll take BP over a win any day 😂
FOR REAL with how insane the grind in this game is you’d think more people would care about the points! also i like money, even fake money.
The problem is that the average player is not a competitive SWF and aren't equipped to deal with the onslaught of extreme killer tactics. That also means you're forced into using specific builds which defeats the whole purpose of having all of these perks.
Hate tunneling, use anti tunnel perks. Hate slugging, use anti slug perks. Hate losing too often in chase, use more chase perks. Hate gen regression, use gen rushing perks. Hate aura reading, use object of obsession. I swear some people think survivors just have unlimited perk slots, or omniscient knowledge of how the killer is going to play before the match even begins. You bring one build to counter a specific playstyle you dont like then end up getting no value out of it for most of your games because not everyone plays that way. Its like rolling the dice every single game you play.
Had a nurse trying to 4 man slug us the other day and had literally 2 people with wglf and got a 3 man out that game because of it. Sooooo much value and I didn't know why we had 2 people in my lobby running that perk. And the nurse was running knockout for her slugging build so we just jumped into lockers each time to counter knockout.
With all the recent fuzz of killers slugging and what not, WGLF has become more and more popular to counter the slugging.
I personally run it along side MFT since (if injured) if I manage to heal a survivor on the ground we both get endurance.
I tried the experiment as Nurse and I got a 2x2-man DC in the first game and they also had either 2 or 3 WGLFs.
Please do not only use second chance and anti-tunnel perks, have variety so you are prepared.
This story sounds exactly like what I went through a couple days ago. You weren't my teammate were you LMAO
I'm a huge proponent of using your hook stages/states as a weapon. The problem in solo queue is that your average solo teammate will start flailing around as soon as the killer is out of the area. If you leave them on the hook for 20 seconds plus after the killer leaves, the chances for them to off themselves goes up substantially
I was going to say the same thing. Even if someone is aware they can be on the hook for a minute and not die, its basically asking someone to "take one for the team" and sit on the hook, not playing the game, for over a minute and most people don't want to do that. They want to play the game. And that's assuming they don't just kill themselves because someone didn't *immediately* start coming for the save and how dare you wait for the killer to not be 20 feet away.
And then there's the chance something goes wrong. You're on the hook a while, not minding because two gens are almost done. Someone finishes and starts coming to you, but the killer intercepts them, and now you're on the next hook state. Its very risky unless you're actually coordinating.
@@divineknight9261 Yep, exactly. Unless I'm communicating, I've started to just wait 20 seconds, until they start throwing their arms up, or whenever someone else gets in chase to go for the unhook. Last thing I want is the killer to get another down close to the hook and then be able to patrol between the slug and the hook.
While I do agree with Scott that situationally, the 70 seconds can be extremely useful if the killer is hanging out around the hook waiting for the unhook, it's not always the best option to leave them on the hook for 68 seconds.
I don't understand not being patient in unhook situations personally but its because I just start wiggling my arms like I'm dancing and if it takes too long to get me off hook I just read something on my second monitor until I get unhooked.
For someone like me that came from a other 4v1 game, in which we would ONLY save at the last second (about mid, and about to end), to make people being on gen more, this makes me so confused why people on dbd do that..
@Eldritch_Construct yeah I think that's the problem is just not being able to read intent. If I see someone start throwing their arms up, I assume it's them saying "no one is coming for me, I'm going to start forcing 2nd stage soon." When they could just be doing it because they're bored. I've just been so conditioned to survivors in my lobby giving up lately that I don't take the chance that they'll stay
Let survivors massively speed up their own bleed out timer and slugging won’t be near as much of a headache
That would be a nice option since a big issue I/people have is the waiting around whilst slugged.
Why does Scott look like Joe from “ You”😂💀
@@systembeard6959lol
@@systembeard6959Ah so i can play vs bots every single match because i was winning too hard/the map wasnt to a survivor's liking/my killer counters their build/they just don't like the killer i'm playing
@@systembeard6959 Surely you realize that if it were like that half your matches if not more would be just a DC fest? Why even play the game at that point?
You don't sound like you put any thought into this. The game would be unplayable.
my main issue with the experiment is that it uses 4ks as its main focus. the games balanced around a 60-40, i think people confused being frustrated with killer to killer being weak.
Using just 4ks for wins instead of the 3k one was a bit weird. I think both could have worked well enough.
As a survivor, I wholeheartedly agree. It's not synonymous. Killers are pretty strong nonetheless.
@@TurbulentEitri it depends, sometimes you have two survivors alive at the end of the game you kill one and the other gets out via door there for according to the experiment you lose.
@@bratsss I'm glad killers are stronger, it's just it goes both ways survivor fun is determined by how the killer wants to play. (Insert shitty comment of "your fun is not my job etc etc")
@@jamestercool4412 Oh, no! I completely agree. Every trial certainly depends on how the killer plays. I was just affirming that many Killers believe because they have a bad outcome, that it means he is weak. But that's not true.
That whole tru3 situation is nuts. I've seen scott's stuff for years now. I had no idea he was even capable of that level of hatred. Tru3 is kind of brash at times, but he didn't deserve all that. If you google his name, all you see is lies and controversies. I don't think he'll ever come back from all that
yeah i have lost all respect for scott he truly is a snake in sheep's clothing i feel so dumb
What is going on about Scott and Tru3?
Aren't these two kinda chill?
@@loopyshot3326watch tru3 react to the documentary on his channel.
@@loopyshot3326 th-cam.com/video/xqLk8Nu7fGM/w-d-xo.htmlsi=yiFfAwYic7BNsnYM
Documentary about all the stuff Scott and his boys put Tru3 through. I had no idea about this stuff
Same, unsubbed and wont be watching him any more
to say that slugging makes people mentally check out therefore making the results 'artificial' is akin to saying that trash talking to reduce an opponents morale to make them mess up is also an artificial influence.
Easy example being League of Legends Teemo and or Singed. both very bad champions generally, but they will mentally ruin you causing you to mess up.
if slugging genuinely causes people to give up, then that isnt artificial but a literal product of the play style.
I hate Singed so much! WHY IS HE SO FAST 😭
@@SeraphineADC to avoid paying child support
That is really not the same, sure the insult has potential to get a reaction, and therefore messing up your performance. But actively forcing someone to do nothing will cause them to get bored, and that 100% will have an impact as people are winning. Not because it’s stronger, but due to how boring it is.
Old Chessmerchant wasn’t unbeatable, but no one in there right mind would want to waste any time facing that
ive had people start killing themselves on hook because im not unhooking them immediately. example im doing a gen right by their hook, ready to unhook when it gets close
so it's a double edged sword with the whole ''use the time of a hook stage wisely''
but i agree and wish it was like that
Some people don't understand how to play the game and don't get that by unhooking them early, you are not only giving away your position, but you are also making it so that your gen that's almost complete will get kicked.
Also, he acts like it is a resource, it really isn't. A person on hook is doing nothing but contributing to dying. If they are unhooked they can loop, heal, do a gen, cleanse a totem etc. 1/4 players on hook at all times is just 1v3 which is the same complaint as someone quitting in the first place. And if my team doesn't rescue me before I reach second hook state I'm not doing those skill checks. Because I'm just going to be moried or instantly killed in 1 minute anyway. That's a ruined game. Unless I'm in a 4 man swf I have zero confidence in recovering from going 2 hook states without rescue.
I do the same but nobody kill themselves I get people on my own skill they got 2k hours at least
I feel like there's a note that hook pressure by nature makes the killer more divided around objectives. The survivor isn't doing "nothing"- if the killer is any good, they're proxying or at least keeping track of the situation around the hook, and it's valuable to waste their time. @@corvusaurem
@@corvusaurem It is a resource though? If a killer comes back to check hook or is hovering they are literally wasting time(The most valuable resource in life and in the game) because that person isn't getting unhooked instantly.
He posted a long vid so he would have time to wipe all the discord servers
????
We desperately need more stringent safeguards against things like this. We cant keep expecting players to play with empathy and sportsmanship to keep things like this from happening
wild
majority of the killer cast cant 4 man slug consistently. not to mention, you dont gain as much pressure as you do from hooking into pain res, pop, grim, etc. youre going to have outliers such as blight, nurse, oni, but lets talk majority. just slug when its needed and youll be fine
getting slugged for extended periods of time is just lame and boring, just let me bleed out and go next honestly
How many hours do you have on the game?
"I was curious if removing game play for half the player base would be effective"
exactly lmao
I hope that video doesn't lead to Slugging as the meta Killer play. Solo Q can be insufferable enough as it is!
This video assumes that all Survviors are as sweaty as the Killers who participated in the video. Not evvery trial will have Survivors coming in with the same mindset, perks, or even objectives (e.g. doing a Daily Ritual, Tome challenge etc.).
I'm so glad that she mentioned the BBQ and Chilli BP incentive to hook all 4 survivors because people rarely mention this
It's a 1 hook activation requirement tho, just 4slug and then hook
@@alextorres5467 toss the bp on grim embrace then
@@alextorres5467 BBQ was a 4x token system though
@@CelicaSNC No i know that but im saying, it doesn't make slugging less prevalent since you can still just 4 man slug and THEN hook everybody to still get the bp
@@alextorres5467 you wouldn't get nearly as much bp as you would from hooking and playing normally
We do not want fun in our game. Only 4k
Fr I play killer for points I don’t care too much about winning. I ain’t doing no streak
Given the chance players will optimize the fun out of a game. Its a game designer's job to protect players from themselves.
thats assuming that "fun" for killers is getting 8 hooks and no kills
@@viennasavage9110that’s true but why would anyone get 8 hooks with no kill? Ya know? You gotta do something
@@NocSlays altruism. But mostly I exaggerated to make the point that kills do matter.
Played against Revvium's Trickster twice, both times with the slugging build. It was VERY fun as a solo queue survivor.
Loaded into a game last night, saw it was SM and insta DCd. It was Revvium. Watched him proceed to spend the next 15 minutes trying to to four slug. My penalty was 1 minutes without queue. Triple win for insta dc
Dam scott didnt realise you were that much of a petty person going after tru3 like that. That was putting it politley aswel. Unsubbed
I recommend everyone watch the Tru3 documentary. Interesting stuff
eye opening. scott demonized an innocent man for the sake of “i don’t like him”. blamed him for ableism and racism when in reality, scott was the only one saying ableist and racist things. any ounce of respect i had left for scott just jumped out a window.
its crazy
@@typhonikswhere did this happen whay
Slow on the views for Tru3 this time of year I see
@@TehSlice360 ?
Was skeptical at first, but tried it out on doctor to a shockingly effective result. Coordination seemed to be the largest detriment to the playstyle with other killers, but the doctor interupting and location information was insane. Super cool experiment regardless.
Playing doctor is like playing killer on easy mode, not enough people talk about him. His ability has built in slowdown having to stop and hit skill checks to reduce madness from tier 3 on top of location reveals and he can run impossible skill check builds to great effect. Not to mention his ability essentially grants him undetectable during chase making it very hard to predict mind games with him. And he can just straight up prevent vaults and pallet drops from happening, guranteeing free hits most of the time. I love playing doctor from time to time, even if survivors hate me for it.
@@tmoney1487 his power does guarantee a hit eventually but since it removes bloodlust it can still take a long chase against competent survivors. He's better than some give him credit for but he really struggles in high MMR.
@@JacobNewell That's simply because he has no mobility. If he had mobility, he would've probably been a top 10 killer.
@@tmoney1487 You're hyping him up way too much. If just guaranteeing free hits is what makes a killer good (not those hits being timely at all) then original Legion was better than Nurse. Doc ain't the worst by any means, but he's not an easy mode unless you're going against survivors that don't understand what Doctor even does.
It takes 3 good shocks to get a hit good ones@@JacobNewell
Its like I was saying in an earlier thread. Slugging is just way more stress free and effective for killer, and I won way more and felt less cheated overall. When I'm hooking im constantly freaking out at every second that im wasting and the wiggling forcing me to run into walls and freaking out over boil over. Simply deciding not to do that did wonders for my blood pressure.
"Slugging has built in hatch protection so that will skew the data"
..... Slugging has an advantage in hatch inherently and so it should be included as part of its advantages, to exclude it for no reason would be the same as looking at a killer and discounting their power "Nurse is bad in chase, it's just blink allows her to cut loops so if we discount that she is actually the worst killer in a chase"
It hurts the data if you already consider a 3k+hatch game a win, which Scott does (and I also do tbh)
Issue is not due to the fact they have protection, but on Carn’s definition of a win. A 3k is a win period whether the survivors get hatch or not. Carn making the win condition only being a 4k skews the data. As she openly criticizes giving up on hook, yet that would inherently give hooking an advantage. Which she didn’t bring up
Slugularity
Slugtress
Scott Jund
The man
The myth
The hypocrite
Disgusting what you’ve done to Tru3 knowing fully well you’ve just been attacking him for no reason whatsoever. Call it jealousy or just a dckhead. Tru3 deserves an apology
Based
14:46 "sorry, I keep stopping" I hate it when the guy whose opinion I want to hear gives his opinion without speaking over a video
Honestly I think that survivors that were unhooked and/or have endurance should not be able to bodyblock the killer.
Just make them lose collision entirely. No bodyblocking the killer, and in turn they can for example get out of the basement easier if unhooked there.
Bro I have been saying this before the basekit BT was a thing. Let survivors lose collision until they do a conspicuous action. It prevents them from body blocking the killer (or other survivors) with OTR and it prevents the killer from aggressively tunneling them.
@@RaffoPhantom That also means that they would be able to clip into a survivors hitbox and still take a hit for them.
@@Eldritch_Construct They can keep collision with other survivors active then (even though I think survivor griefing via bodyblocking is an issue even sometimes unintentionally), even so they are putting themselves in a horrible situation if they choose to take an endurance hit
"Survivors weaponizing anti-tunnelling perks" is such a shameless excuse.
It compounds with every other non weaponized perk. Do we want to discuss the sheer timesave if we think of a 4 stack running just Renewal/We'll Make It? Does it matter if we call anything weaponized if it all contributes to hooking granting mindnumbingly marginal time gained back for the killer?
If you take a hit with DS I'm slugging you
That never made sense to me. If someone goes for the unhook and the guy with DS body blocks you can wait or hit, regardless it'll probably take around the same time. You can slug the guy assuming he has DS and chase the unhooker. That's half the team not doing gens.
Completely agree. Survivors can’t weaponize anything. The worse they can do is drag games out by hiding.
Yeah, If you use it counter to it's purpose it typically makes you the best target to go for. An obvious example is people trying to take the BT at base hit, instead of using it for it's intended purpose of you being able to get away and make it to the next loop. If you body block and force me to hit you, then you become my best target. Because typically they have higher hook stages.
Same would hold true for DS if you use it to take chase rather than get away from one, don't get upset when you get what you're asking for.
Guys, we don't have to keep commenting for Scott to react to the Tru3 documentary. He's just gonna deflect it and enjoy the interaction on his video.
Just walk away, fellas.
@@makatuk93 The ego of the racist, ableist, evidence deleting narcissist that is Scott Jund will only let him refrain from saying something for so long. Poke him enough, and he will take action.
I think one of the biggest things to take into consideration when it comes to anti-slugging perks is how often they can come into play; OTR works only to protect you from a hit off the hook once, whilst WGLF can get far more value since it can be used as many times as you're slugged. A well-placed Exponential that the killer takes forever to find will get infinitely more value than Decisive can. Soul Guard even has its own niche, where a hex perk lets you pick yourself up as many times as you want, as long as a hex perk is left up.
Me: quits dbd for the 100th time
Me: watches an hour long scott video about dbd
I think the reason the doctor player said that they prefer slugging over hooking is because the doctor can prevent people from healing and picking people off the ground if they're in madness tier 3
you waking up to all these new comments calling you out should be your sign that you only got one way out if you still dont see it like that good luck lol
Ikr
You guys will get over it in a week.
@@DJ5540 lol stay delusional, cat is out of the bag
@@Youre-absolutely-right the cat was never in the bag. Nothing said in this documentary was a revelation. All of it existed 4 years ago. Like I said tru3 fans will be mad for a week and move on.
@@DJ5540 I didn't know about Scott's discord, nor the fact he r'd on there so much, nor did I see him get any consequences for that. True has had a LOT of harrassing happen to him on the other hand. Yeah, I wonder why people are mad..
Hello Mr. Jund, I made the slugging build for HonestPanda. In fact, I made 3 for him, but that was the one he enjoyed the most. It was personally not my favorite out of the 3, but a lot of consideration went into it, all the way down to the add-ons. The one I liked was a lot meaner and harder to beat, while this one was more fun to play as, and had quicker games due to the more aggressive playstyle it has. We concluded that nurse's calling, OSS Report and Footprint Cast were essential to making the best slug builds on unknown. If you want to chat or go into detail about the perk choices or any of the other slug builds I'd love to.
Saying this as a surv main
Hooks need to matter more that's one of the main issues. The game is revolved around how many kills you get that if you get 12 hooks and everyone escapes the game doesn't recognize it as a close match. I think until the dev's start making hooks matter more than just tunneling someone for a kill the game is going to slowly but surely just turn into a slugging meta more and more. I do think unbreakable should be base kit *if* a killer tries to slug right off the bat at the start of the game and the survivor is down for a certain amount of time. I don't really see why survivors should use up a perk slot to negate a killer slugging (in a non skillful way such as just slugging for the sake of bleeding everyone out)
true
Its wild to think leaving players on the floor for the full time. Is gonna be healthy for the community.
I tried watching the video in question before Scott's run. I got to the point where she described the 10 second hook extensions being "controversial" and pretty much stopped. I have never cared how much time survivors have to unhook when I play killer.
I still do not understand this warped psychology that leads to killers saying someone is "forcing DS" against them. OTR wastes 3 seconds and puts a tunnel victim back in harm's way. That's it.
Them 10 seconds do put in work sometimes, but i feel like its less game changing than allot of people make it out to be. Like some people just sound mad they dont get a free hook state because solo queue survivors are being slow with the unhook.
One of the things you bring up a lot is how the individual killers' builds have too much variance, aren't hookey enough, aren't tryhard enough etc etc, but the point of the 10 control matches is to take 10 games of that killer players *normal gameplay*, then the slugging games are "What if this player now swaps to this strategy"
For the Nemesis section, wherein you wonder if they got someone who isnt very good at Nemesis..
That was the #2 Nemesis main Horcerer >o>
Just saw an example of WGLF being insanely useful against slugging on Otz's stream yesterday. All completely soloQ against a pretty decent Billy, but one person with WGLF constantly gave everyone endurance and the killer only got 1 kill at the very end of the game
'Killers are struggling' shows 74% 4k rate even with hooking....
Scott probably won’t see this but I do really hope he makes some kind of response because if things like his discord messages were real I really dont think I feel comfortable watching him. I never watched his videos on tru3 when he was making them but all the messages are really concerning even if they were more than 4 years ago
what messages?
Yeah only a few minutes in and kind of the fundamental flaw with this experiment is that tunneling/hooking is "meta" and 4man slugging isn't. There's no way to compare them in a neural environment where people are equally prepared for both. It's impossible to say if slugging would still be more effective if players were set up to play around it, especially since people die a lot slower on ground and can reposition while doing it unlike on hooks.
When the killer kicks my gen right near where they hooked a survivor, they will likely instantly come back when they see that unhook happen. Especially when I see no other teammates on gens, I will sit on the gen for as long as possible trying to finish the gen first while that person hangs next to me. I already know that all my teammates being useless, not on gens, are just salivating over that unhook so I let them come do it instead.
Or you can just wait till killer starts a chase then they have to either choose to leave chase and come for the unhook or stick chase and let the unhook go.
so we know now that slugging doesn't help.
the moment slugging becomes common, the perks kill the strat entirely. This only works because barely anyone brings perks to counter it.
Most survivors had tunneling in mind when building perks, so lots had no perks, teammates who gave up quicker because of slugging, and the kill rates are incredibly close when you actually consider 3k + hatch = 4k (which you should)
it's such a minute difference that again, is only working due to survivors not bringing anti slug. The longer killers try this, the worse the build will get.
Dbd will probably also add some sort of anti slug base kit, then this method is fully dead
Off rip. The reason the hook stages going to 70 seconds is a made up problem... they are trying to incentivize u to leave the hook and the survivors to do anything useful at all. You shouldn’t be expecting survivors to second stage from first hook so at the end of the day 10 seconds is only going to help pinch off a save at the last second of a proxy camp or cross all of ormond. When I saw the first few minutes of this video I meant to leave this comment but I forgot. Extend3d hook timers only affects killers who won’t leave the hook. You should expect survivors to make saves regardless and it’s your fault if the only pressure you can create is a proxy camp. Enter slugging
Imagine wanting people to care about your opinions while slandering others. The level of narcism is insane here.
Fr... This guys ego is broken
Definitely not a good look
On your live stream yesterday you said the person who made the documentary never reached out to you. However they responded saying they reached out to you months ago. So is he lying, are you lying? Hearing about the stuff you, your wife and Zubat has done. Such as the discord stuff. It’s really sad to find out that you’d be so cruel and apathetic. I don’t even know if I should believe you on it either. Since if you can’t even recall a message that was sent to you months ago that does exist. You lost some reliability right there.
yup its like the more he talks the more holes we find
And he keeps saying that Tru3 is digging up 4 year old drama and yet he clearly wasn't the one that made the documentary. What a b*tch move on Scott's part that again shows his true colours.
I have no messages from that person. I'm curious to see his side
Hes a little weasel, I would not expect any honesty.
@@ScottJund you already have with yo pretending ass
doctor (and trapper but thats not what im commenting for) from the experiment here. the reason i felt slugging games were easier was not only because games were faster, but also because less gens were done (an average of 1.6 versus my hooking matches averaging at 2.1).
i kinda knew doc was good at it before the experiment since id already toyed around with it myself in the past, its really because of all docs anti heal and tracking potential, especially since the anti heal from tier 3 madness also applies to picking up downed teammates, and the hallucinations from king giving even more tracking on top of all the screams, and queen literally telling me whenever someone was trying to pick up their teammate (and before someone asks, coulrophobia isnt worth taking over the slowdown perks, and sloppy covers it fine since whenever i interrupt a heal by putting them on tier 3 with a static blast hemmorhage will completely reset it)
one last note, even though i think doctor is an incredibly strong slugger, i dont think its necessarily stronger than hooking if the team youre up against really knows what theyre doing. theres also rare cases where the team isnt good enough to negate your snowball, but they are good enough to just barely keep up and eventually youve gotten so many downs that you couldve just killed someone off already if youd hooked, it happened in one of my slug matches where the match was 17 minutes and they got 4 gens done, i got so many downs that surge completely on its own got a generator to hit 8 regression events, i couldve wrapped up the match far sooner if id just hooked instead, though that was the only slug game where more than two gens got done.
anyway not that carn didnt do an excellent job summarizing what i said, i just love explaining doctor (if you couldnt tell already) and also figured id explain why i felt slugging was easier since the gens completed count wasnt shown. thats all ive got, this experiment cost me my soul but i loved getting the data!
Tru3 Vs Scott in a boxing match would be dope
scott ko in 10 seconds
Scott looks a little anemic. I don’t think he would fair very well.
16:58 “When 4k is the win condition here is the %”
Scott: what does that MEAN is that a 3k or a 4k 😂
He said he counts someone getting hatch himself as a 4K. So he didn’t understand if hatch was a component or not for the 4K win condition because they’re essentially exactly the same
@@oscar3153he can think what he wants, it doesn't mean that people are obligated to explain universally agreed things.
@@handsomejack2201 It’s universally agreed that a 3K with 1 hatch escape is a win though
@@oscar3153 yes, but it doesn't change the fact that 4k is 4 dead survivors. She said that in the experiment win - 4k.
People like this are gonna be the reason they add basekit unbreakable in the game
can't really blame people for using built in mechanics. tbeyll implement a good way to counter this if it's needed
I heard they had no plans to add basekit unbreakable cause it was too abusable in the PTB they tried it in.
Let's give a basekit counter to every comeback mechanic a killer can possibly use.
yeah no because being bled on the ground and crawling without actually doing anything is extremely fun. Average brain dead dbd killer mains.
@@Fenneccinos Then ya can't blame the survivors for bitching so hard that base kit unbreakable gets added in
Looking forward to seeing you defend yourself against this one. Occurring stuff like this usually paints a big picture. You better go delete some more evidence.
And here I was, watching Scott's videos for the past 2 years having no idea about what was happening in the background. Can't wait for your reaction to your exposure man. Didn't expect such hateful and inconsiderate behaviour from you. Imagine calling people "tarded" just for fun, and actually getting off on it, from the looks of it. The amount of hate I'll probably receive from your fans will be insane, just as your thought process is, but like you said, "streamers rub off on their audience", by which statement I pity your audience if they ever follow your example of a debate, or should I say witch hunt? That'd be much more accurate. Really hope you'll learn something from this, as you seem mature enough to get past this childish behaviour, but we'll have to see if that's true.
His massive amounts of racism must be part of his family tradition i hope he issues an apology to every group affected by his racism and the fans he turned into racist too he needs to apologize to blm too
Her data sample is a lot better than you're giving it credit for. Having each killer give 10 games for hooking and 10 games for slugging means that the two sides did have a fair comparison on player skill, killers chosen, etc. Because each player is using the same killer the whole time and equally putting games into each bucket. So the skill per game between the two buckets is exactly the same. We obviously have no balancing of survivor skill. But we don't have any way to do so. Just as big as possible of sample size to help average it out.
I'd even argue it goes a decent way to normalize for builds being different between the two as long as we accept that we're comparing between slugging build + playstyle against hooking build + playstyle. If Reaper tells me that this is pinhead's best hooking build and this is pinhead's best slugging build, that's about as close to the correct answer as I'm likely to find.
And if you don't like kills as a metric because of hatch, use gens completed instead which was also presented.
Obviously bigger sample size is always better. But she did a lot of things right with the data collection process. It was really well done for what it is.
I'm not saying it's perfect, but I wouldn't dismiss everything on this basis.
Scott and zubat being exposed was not on my 2024 bingo card. Props to the TH-camr who made it happen 😂
Same
what? wdym exposed, what happened
@@Roommates_Stories there's a video on tru3talent that mentions Scott and how he has a lot of the blame for Tru3s image. Things like how he attacked his character. Feel free to look it up, form your own opinion
They got "exposed" three years ago my dude. You're late.
@@anthonyyelchibekov6488 that's ancient history, is there anything new that came up?
The issue with this is unbreakable ds. Both perks are still viable together and i wouldnt be surprised that survivors will start running it again after this Video
If you have anything less than a 4 man swf, the risk of the random killing themselves on hook is too high to leave them for any significant time unfortunately. I wish attitudes towards solo q would improve, because it's not bad when you know what you're doing and confident in supporting people you can't comm with. I've met many of my best teammates by queuing up by myself and basically running those matches like they're swf tryouts lol.
Surv perks I'd recommend if people are dealing with a lot of slugging:
-Plot twist has a fun effect where, if you time it like dead hard, you still scream when you drop! This can be used to create the illusion that you're pausing chase to beg for your life.
-Tenacity is underrated point blank period. A map with any grass or corners means the killer is gonna lose you quick if they don't pick up immediately. Please stop staying in a pile for the killer to hover over multiple players at once, crawling different directions will create valuable pressure. I've gotten hatch and been called a hacker so many times over this 1 perk.
-Boon: Expo not only let's you pick yourself up, but it's also much faster to recover yourself. Holding the run button prevents teammates from healing, and helps them recognize the boon isn't CoH. Bring a rainbow map and move on to a different totem when it gets snuffed.
Among others, I find these 3 incredibly effective!
if you leave me on hook for ten seconds, i'm going next. you are just wasting everybody's time
@@tasmium The vindictive way teammates play the team side of this 4v1 game is so baffling it's actually hilarious. I'm begging, BHVR pls add Patrick Bateman as a surv.
@@tasmiumyeah this is the guy insta-unhooking and getting the babies tunnelled
@@tasmiumhey friend! I say this in a friendly way but it seems like you're not really having fun playing the game
@@qwikscopez6619i saw a reply of his on another comment saying "its not my responsibility to make sure my opponents have fun in a pvp game". Apparently he doesn't care about his teammates having fun either. Definitely has never had fun playing this game lmao.
Every time someone brings up nightlight stats I can't help but roll my eyes. Yes, it's the only publicly available stats we have but it is also only representative of like 1% of the playerbase.
4 man no mither counters this lol
Nice try, Killer main!
@@AssassinatedMonk eh, I gotta try
YEA, I agree with this guy - A killer main
especially with boil over flip flop on crotus pren
Wait a second... The Oni from DBD! I knew I would find you here
Gamers: "Taking games seriously and playing to win is how I have fun"
Also gamers: "why aren't I having fun anymore?"
@Scot Jund Your counterpoints in this video are both EXTREMELY bias'd against slugging and also genuinely feel like your actively trying to ignore the reality that is staring you in the face.
Here's the REAL take away from this data. (as flawed as it may be)
Slugging IS definitively more effective and stronger on a number of killers UNDISPUTUDABLY so.
The following is a exhaustive list of killers from this data where going for a 4 man slug win con is demonstrably stronger than going for a hook based approach : nurse, billy, leatherface, pinhead, larry, artist, dracula, dredge, unknown, trickster, huntress and finally an honorable mention the TWINS because fucking obviously.
Here is another point to illustrate one of the problems I have with your video, in your video you were extremely fixated on the dc% of slugging vs hooking games. This approach is flawed in a number of ways, firstly, when you slug someone they can't kill themselves on the hook like the can in a hook based game. This means all the people that would normally have just fucking killed themselves on the hook is going to instead dc as it is their next best alternative to playing that match. This data did not include suicide on first hook which is a flaw of the study IMO and more important serves to unfairly paint the number of people disconnecting from slugging games vs people killing themselves on hook in hook games.
Secondly, if someone kills themselves on hook OR if someone disconnects, the result is different, in one instance the person is gone irrevocably and the match is immediately a 3v1 which under the majority of situations is a complete loss for the survivor team. When someone disconnects THEY get a bot that can still actively progress the gamestate, they aren't perfect as the bots are genuinely pretty terrible, but THEY STILL progress their objective if uninterrupted.
This means matches where people disconnect should be HARDER than games where they kill themselves on hook, this isn't what your seeing in the data however, and that is for a VERY simple reason. People kill themselves on hook at a FAR lower rate, than they disconnect when they encounter things they don't enjoy facing.
What all this shit means is that if you slug, you are on AVERAGE more likely to win than if you don't PURELY because the amount of people that just quit is significantly higher than those that choose to continue and keep playing. This is an outcome of taking advantage of human psychology and the tendencies of the playerbase. If nothing else were to be considered or evaluated here, the reality is YOU WILL WIN MORE OF YOUR MATCHES SLUGGING than if you don't BECAUSE SURVIVOR GIVE YOU MORE FREE WINS WHEN YOU DO THAT. This means it is OBJECTIVELY better to do if your goal is to win MORE GAMES.
A final point, you argued that if such a meta were to become commonplace that survivors would simply adapt to the new meta and run slugging perks like plot twist and unbreakable to counter it. To that I say, enjoy the the game of fitness trade-offs. You are correct, that it would make the slugging strategy weaker, counter point however, NOW your not running shit to stop tunneling / increase your chase time / increase your gen speed. By running these perks over them you are directly making yourself weaker to either strategy, this is the problem with your argument. If players noticed a shit ton of wglf, unbreakable, plot twist and made for this, they would simply go back to hooking, tunneling and slugging more, running more gen regression perks again. Regardless of WHAT the survivor picks they are not able to adequately prepare for both possibilities. This is the problem with such an argument and for PROOF OF THIS, you can see by the data from nightlight, the perks that do counter this are FAR less common than the ones that counter OTHER THINGS.
Overall I feel like you really just tried to paint the idea of 4 man slugging entirely as something as completely unviable and not worth pursuing at all. This is both disingenuous to the data and selfish to your audience scot.
Hes both the type of person to say "This isnt a viable way to play the game" then turn around and go "I dont play this way so it doesnt cause these problems for me"
11:29 Running empathy allows you to see where injured survivors are just about anywhere on the map. Unless you're going up against a killer that utilizes expose mechanics, it's safe to assume that a survivor will be injured before getting downed. Thereby giving you an opportunity to see where they are before they get put into the downed state.
I just watched the tru3 documentary, and wish I hadn't, because I learned things about you that made me very disappointed
Can you pls tldr the documentary?
@@d0b1k16 Scott, his wife and Zubatlel went after Tru3's reputation by labelling him as an "ableist" and "racist" and basically created a witch hunt that ultimately negatively affected Tru3's image and caused a lot of hate and harassments towards him. Only because they simply did not like Tru3. Lots of lies were said and words were twisted to make him look bad. They also had a private Discord channel that they used to make fun of Tru3 and say a ton of nasty shit towards him and a racist comment about Indian people made by Scott himself (the irony lol). I HIGHLY recommend you watching the documentary, it actually is a good watch.
now react to tru3 documentary
Yeah. It would be interesting to see how he explains his hypocrisy in calling the man and his fans "ableist" and "racist" when he turned around and used such language himself. He's just a bully, and the way he treated Tru3 in that situation was genuinely disheartening. I'm not implying that Tru3 is perfect, but Scott could at least supply evidence of the rhetoric he once claimed rather than ignore it. It's gross.
@@saoirse1893yep that discord server really coming to bite him in the ass now lol.
I don’t like tru3 but calling him racist and ableist while calling people “Indian hard r” is literally worse in every way then the “who sent you Indians here “ what true said. Interested to see Scott’s excuses
Damn you mfs are so chronically online, you dig stuff from 5yrs ago to entertain yourself.
@Csrattic What Tru3 said there wasn't even bad, he was just calling them Indians, he didn't imply anything negative by it, just pointing out where they're from. Meanwhile, Scott was literally calling Indians the "R slur" in the discord straight up. But he's a coward and never owned up to his hypocrisy.
I've yet to see any actual evidence of Tru3 saying something genuinely racist or ableist either. Just people being disingenuous and purposely misinterpreting what he says to make it seem way worse than it was.
I hate the approach some people have to gaming. I'm not saying she has this approach but she constantly says in the video that slugging proved to be more effective than hooking as you don't have to deal with anti hook perks this or that etc... But at that point, who the hell cares. You're not playing for money, you're not playing for anything. Just play the god damn game. And please I don't wanna hear the argument of "killers should be able to play how they want or how they find it fun". To a certain extent I agree but it shouldn't come at the cost or detriment of others. Also waiting minutes and minutes on end to bleed out people is spiteful and not effective, and at that point you're just being an ass.
I also find it funny that she says at the start of the video that the meta might shift and possibly lean more towards slugging, then says the WGLF buff was unwarranted. Like what lol. If you're actively making videos about why slugging is more effective or whatever then more killers will start to do so. I run WGLF and made for this when I can now because of stuff like this.
I will never understand the mindset some people have when playing this game. Why some of them take it so seriously. I could never. It would ruin my experience with the game
Agree with half of your comment. If you're doing this strat for constant 4k's and victories, then yeah you're a dick. Personally, i think being "intentionally evil" is okay sometimes and how BVHR wants us to use this kind of builds. But people must admit that not everything will be fun/healthy for both sides and show a bit of tolerance, which severely lacks in this community.
"Optimizing the fun out" is a well documented phenomenon. If anyone plays a game enough they're going to settle on bizarre hyper optimized strategies as after a certain point they've run out of other things to do. One of the great failings of DbD is BHVR created a series of systems where optimal play can be deeply unfun for both sides simultaneously
i don't see how you could possibly believe that it's my responsibility to make sure my opponent in a PVP game is having fun. i'm there to win, and i happen to have the most fun when i try my hardest to win.
There's people out there for whom the most fun they have in a video game is trying their hardest to win and experimenting with the most effective strategies to do that.
Saying people just "shouldn't play this way" is a silly approach to take to this phenomenon. If people had to only play in the ways their opponents found fun, every single multiplayer video game would be in the ground.
If this is how somebody has fun, then so what if the opponent doesn't like it? It's the opponents job to learn how to counter it, to make it clear to the devs of whatever game they're playing that they think this is a problem and hopefully see changes to revert it, to suck it up and just accept that sometimes you'll have matches that aren't fun for you, or to just stop playing the game and do something else they find more fun.
People always say "what about the other sides fun?" But for some reason that only ever applies to the side who isnt trying to win.
Gamers: "Taking games seriously and playing to win is how I have fun"
Also gamers: "why aren't I having fun anymore?"
No Mither. You're welcome, folks. I've countered slugging (joke comment)
Had a feeling you were not a good person from all the drama back then, but those discord messages really take it even further with the proof
?
You should reply to trues documentary video. Can’t believe you did that back in the day. Wild behavior and didn’t expect it from you. Just disappointed.
Imagine 4 no mithers vs the slugging experiment side
Remember people don’t typically build around slugging but once they do (if it ever becomes prominent) then it’s gonna be hard to slug a survivor. You’ll be forced to do pick ups in certain cases.
Until you get killers who don't slug (fairly many) and then you wasted your build
@@alextorres5467 that’s true for now. I’m more or less pointing a finger at the possible future of things. But this statement of yours also can be made about anti tunnelling (or camping) as well
Next upload should be a reaction video, all ima say.
I think the REAL conversation we need to have is: “why DBD players refuse to admit they are terrible at playing killer and blame the devs for it?” I play only soloQ and I can count in one hand the amount of good killers. The majority straight up camp with Blight(one of the strongest killers) or they don’t split pressure and only chase one survivor from the start, I have seen them completely ignore someone on a gen right in their line of sight to chase a Meg insta dropping pallets + some players don’t even use the perks they bring. You think high MMR killers are good? No, they just camp on first hook or try any cheap way to 4K, if it fails they DC
Supporting argument to leaving people on hook when I'm soloqueuing: Please god, people, stop DC-ing if we don't come and unhook you immediately - my gen is at 70%
i won't die on 1st hook but if you let me get to second stage, you better believe i'm missing those skill checks
Something I say while doing this was the idea of being stressed and having so much to think about with the slugging matches was what I enjoyed the most about it. It was more quick decisions and no real down time from putting people on hooks effective or not the games felt more fast paced and I know i said "feast of famine" but the idea of either getting a 4k or a 0k almost every match is what slugging became and I enjoyed that a lot it was more tense for lack of a better word
> 1,5h video
> concludes with "this data means literally nothing"
Why is slugging so bad? I find if I stick it out, we turn it around most times, even in solo que. If you are slugged, you can move, albeit slow, but also you have infinite "slug stages," but 4 min total. Imagine instead of two 70 second hook stages you could have infinite but had to be on hook for 4 min, and no skillchecks while the timer was ticking. That would be stronger right? Now add you could slowly move the hook to a better position to get the save, or a bad position to camp if the killer is camping you. Why don't most survivors understand that? Slugging is only stronger because if you do it 80%, or more, of survivors will quit, or throw the match.
"deliverance should be basekit" uh no the fck it should not be?? i dont understand why peoples first instinct when it comes to balancing poorly designed game fundamentals is to just make literal meta perks basekit. how about they make corrupt basekit? what about pain res?
Corrupt basekit doesnt sound like the worst idea, but deliverance definitely sounds garbage base kit. Would rather have unbreakable base kit
"She got a bunch of killers to slug" bro so this is why i was suddenly seeing so many killers slug everyone in my games. At first i thought it was nothing when you first made a video about it cause i wasnt getting any but now theyve grown to be in most my games lol
You know what's crazy not taking accountability nor admitting the wrongs you done in ruining someone's success with your boyfriend Zubat
You have to immediately or that fool might think no one is coming and go next
ask your wife to teach you how NOT to be an ableist (she doesn't know)
The problem with trying to take advantage of the 70 second hook timer is that more than likely if someone is on the hook more than 20 seconds they'll try to self unhook.
Going into this with the reasoning that hook timers got 10 seconds longer is a bit of a self report.
Thats basically admitting that your game plan is "camp at 5"
what's wrong with camping at 5 gens?
@@tasmium sub average pp size
@@tasmium They don't understand how the game works, ignore them.
I play solo queue a lot and this is a nightmare to go against because no one thinks or pays much attention.
As much as I hate this playstyle and want it out of the game, I don't mind encouraging all the killers to play like this until the survivor player base starts mass quitting the game and then maybe BHVR does something to address it.
However, I have used UB religiously for years now, so I use it 90%+ of my matches unless I'm doing a full synergy build.
The potential for UB to counter this is actually insane, but it requires EVERYONE to be using UB and to know that everyone else is.
If you treat getting slugged as a pseudo-hook phase that lasts 4 minutes, then you can look at it like having the classic Deliverance vs. a proxy/facecamping killer.
You all spread out across the map as far away from each other as possible, once you get slugged you 99 your UB. If the killer slug camps you, you have up to 4 minutes to exclusively pressure generators. If they leave you to chase someone else, then you pick yourself up and use a medkit to reset yourself to healthy, and pressure gens/loop the killer to the best of your ability again.
This will not work in solo queue though because it requires more coordination, and if you use your UB that way in solo queue, then you will most likely get your overly altruistic teammates slugged as well and it will be even harder to come back from that point. UB is mainly nice in solo for preventing that situation from occurring as quickly as possible before your teammates go on a mission to pick you up.
You can also pair it with Sprint Burst and Hatch offering to bait chase when you are one out of two remaining survivors to loop the killer and buy your teammate time to do gens or for them to hide in a locker until you go down. Pray that the killer sweats for 4k leaving you slugged to 99 your UB while they look for the last survivor, pray they actually pick them up first instead, and then pray that they want to use the basekit mori on you while you patiently wait near the hatch spawn(but not too close because they might panic pick you up and hook you). And then UB+Sprint Burst in their face the INSTANT the hatch opens, or before they go to close it if that situation occurs instead.
Pro tip: Keeping all the prior strategies in mind, you can also pair it with Soul Guard to guarantee value from your one and only UB at critical times, or to give yourself endurance if someone comes to pick you up in front of the killer. It even preserves your UB if you're hexed, until the hex is cleansed.
Happy Surviving!
Girl just wanted to do an experiment, and everyone in chat is like, imagine being this serious. When otz does the same thing, it's fine
Because he has an army of dents.
The problem is that this "experiment" affected many people's actual games. I've been being slugged every other match and I suspect this girl's "experiment" has something to do with it.
@@adamk.7177 Otz's mad science happens in the wild to, stop posting cap
@@adamk.7177 Who cares if it had an effect on people's games? The killer can play the way they want to with literally no thought to the survivor's experience and vice versa for the survivors. As a killer, I'm not here to make the game fun for the survivors. The opposite is true, honestly.
@@Dizzifying1I wish more killers had this mindset. I'm on the other end of- I'm gonna try make it a fun game for everyone- but a consistency I respect.
For the person thinking "This must be boring for the Killer", why would it be..? They're still engaging in the full chase, still doing all the mindgames, all the gameplay is occurring there. The only difference is they're not picking the person up and putting them on a hook, why would that cause any huge shift of "boredom"?
okay now react to the tru3talent documentary 😎
Holy shit I forgot that dude even exists.
@@matokrajniak1901It's for the better 😂
No shot there’s a tru3 documentary
Where is it
bro scott does not care about this drama mongering. only you parasocial freaks actually give a shit
5:50 We'll make it is arguably the best healing perk in the game and only activates after hook rescues, and lasts long enough to give value even when healing teammates that werent hooked.
Dude removed the truetalent documentary comment that was hear 2 hours ago. Went to watch the documentary and Scott Jund I can't believe you did that to a person. What's wrong with you calling people the R word and coordinating with Zubat to ruin someone reputation. Unfollowing.
what, are you some kind of retard or something? does the scary word fill you with fear? jesus, bunch of pussies you are.
@@shadyjalapenos It's hypocritical is what it is, "retard". No one is scared of the word but Scott is just being hypocritical calling tru3 out when he himself has said the word a recorded 200+ times in his private discord server. L take from you 💀
Damn buncha Scott Jund dickriders up in here, tryna save this guy from his inevitable fall by all means.
@@shadyjalapenoslmfao you calling people pussies while missing the entire point is golden. You ain't cooking here sunshine.
BHVR: We have seen the results of this experiment and have decided to reduce charges needed to complete gens, allow survivors to pick themselves up, removed the Blindness effect from Knockout, took Hex: Third Seal out back to get shot, and nerfed... *spins roulette wheel of killer perks* ... Unnerving Presence. Look forward to the next update where it's a toss-up on what mechanic breaks due to our poor coding.
No mither users: Am I a joke to you?
8:06 how does the unhooking survivor have ds active?
Explain the evidence in the doc please
120 mins of scott of not listening to the next/last thing or wondering if 3k was or was not a win....despite it being established right at the start XD