One of the problems with fighting Buu is that you're not even fighting a body. You can reduce him to atoms. It won't matter. You're fighting his entire ki pool, which you have to wipe out of existence. So one big kamehameha won't do anything unless it's stronger than the totality of every point of ki Buu has. Basically, the only thing you can do is try to drain his ki to nothing by repeatedly damaging him and forcing him to use up his ki to maintain a body. And you're using up your own ki in the process. So you have to not only have more ki than Buu (probably, unless you're crazy skilled and efficient), but you also have to thoroughly beat him in every clash without making any mistakes or being taken by surprise, all while trying to ensure your own body never takes any major damage or that you get physically exhausted. (KILLING BUU IS VERY HARD.) I have no doubt Goku had no chance at all of finishing off Fat Buu even without a time limit, although he probably could have destroyed his body thoroughly in the same way he did Cell. It just wouldn't have stuck.
My own impression was more that Buu could regenerate from the atomic level. To destroy Buu, it wasn't that you had to burn out his energy necessarily, though that would have also worked, but that you'd have to eradicate every single individual atom, otherwise his life force would still have something to be tied to and regrow his entire body through, like Cell on steroids. While nightmarishly hard to destroy unless you brought overwhelming power to bear, or a level of smarts that weren't really shown off by the Z-fighters (with the plan to trap Buu inside the Time Chamber notwithstanding) Buu's own arrogance and/or stupidity was at least a self-nerf that allowed Goku and company to EVENTUALLY win, since, you know... ... Imagine if Kid Buu had somehow had the brainpower and foresight to leave a few spare atoms scattered across the solar system, riding the explosion of when he destroyed the Earth. That Spirit Bomb and the wish on Porunga would have been all wasted effort.
@@captaincraftit696 Some big brain thoughts going on in here. I like that "Kid Buu never died... he's still in space" point lol. They could still use that plot point. I think another, admittedly 5 brained 4D chess player way of stopping Kid Buu is if a pure hearted being was absorbed by Mr Buu. Pick either Goku, Goten or Gohan. Either way, Mr. Buu would have his intelligence, his added strength, *_but ultimately the added benefit of reliably hurting Kid Buu plain and simple since apparently "Only Buus can hurt a Buu"._* And it all ends with a happy outcome since Mr Buu could just spit the absorbed one back out. There you go. Being absorbed doesn't have to be all that bad if both are on the same page. Can you imagine if the Buu Saga ended with Mr. Buuku vs Kid Buu? I mean the tools was all there. It's just that no one thought about it.
@@LucidTUN3S My thoughts weren't necessarily that Kid Buu could still be in space, but more that if Kid Buu had been smart, he could've left a tiny, tiny bit of himself out in space just in case he was otherwise completely destroyed. Or ideally, multiple tiny bits scattered far and wide to make destroying him without some sort of hax or just destroying the entire universe nigh-impossible. It would've made everything the Z-fighters had done all a total wash right to the very end, but arrogance/stupidity was too big a self-nerf in the end! But yeah, honestly, like you said, a smart play on Goku and company's part would have been to have Good Buu temporarily assimilate all the Z-fighters. It would've been an absolute slaughter in the Z-fighters' favor, and Good Buu would easily be able to release them afterwards. Not exactly as dramatic as the ending we got, but a smarter use of resources and manpower at the very least.
@@twotymez9135 I think Buu can be destroyed with a Ki blast if the opponent is overwhelmingly more powerful. Ultimate Gohan could’ve destroyed Super Buu and Super Vegito could’ve destroyed Buuhan.
My personal head cannon is Goku was more powerful than Majin Buu as a SSJ3 but with the endurance drain and Buu s insane regeneration makes this fight much closer imo. Love yr content
@@BardockSkywalker The only thing he didn't know about was his absorption ability. And even after seeing all of that. He still stated he could have beaten the Fat Buu (Right before he fought Kid Buu). And rarely if ever is he wrong about when he makes a projection like that.
@kevinlee9929 he didn't know about his regeneration abilities to the full extent either. Because if he had seen what happen between Gotenks and Super Buu in the time chamber, he would have known otherwise
@@MrReese8732 Yes he did. At that point Buu had blown up Earth and regenerated, blown himself up vs Gohan and regenerated, and regenerated during the fight with Vegetto. Goku was fully aware of it.
Exactly Buu has greater stamina, endurance and abilities than Goku so this fight was a lot closer than SSJ Goku vs Frieza Goku couldn't beat Buu without a fusion or Spirit bomb at least
I think it's worth noting that the initial Fat Buu, before he splits off from the evil, gets power spikes when he becomes genuinely pissed, best seen with Vegeta when he just blows him away by angrily shooting out energy. With Goku, he just saw it as a game, so I don't think Goku even saw the full extent of his power. (Just got to the part of the video where you reached the same conclusion, lol)
Which you completely misunderstood all three of those, lol Electric cheetah go because he wanted to be the one to defeat him cuz he killed his friends Frieza because he begged for his life and he was no longer a threat to him because he was stronger don't give me your hindsight that he could go around blowing up other planets Goku knew that if he could just bring them back with the dragon balls and then killed friza the bean was literally him trying to give Gohan the confidence to defeat cell not because he wanted a fair fight
Goku was holding back so much power during that fight. He was just stalling for time because he really wanted Trunks and Goten to save Earth with their fusion.
We have no idea how much or if any power he was holding back. He never had the ability to defeat buu, it takes much stronger characters than him to do the job.
@emmanuelopoku-ware Even Piccolo knew that Goku was holding back against the Fat Buu. Which is why he asked him about it when he got back to the Lookout.
@emmanuelopoku-ware the reason he couldn't kill kid buu was stamina. it's literally stated that goku could have killed fat buu but wanted goten and trunks to kill him instead. it's literally black on white in the manga. not surprised to see your comment having likes nonetheless, we're talking about the youtube comment section after all
When piccolo sees mystic Gohan for the first time, he compares the transformation to super saiyan 3, soooooo.........Additionally, the plan was for goku to fuse with mystic gohan, someone with similar power levels. And if he was weaker than buu after he lost gotenks's power, goku wouldn't have casually depowered from SSJ3 to base, and teased buu to his face.
I honestly think that Super Saiyan 3 Goku could have defeated fat Buu had they been allowed to finish their fight. Goku did have the advantage over fat Buu during a majority of the fight, and Goku was just stalling in that fight. Goku even thought he could have defeated fat Buu when he brought up their fight later on in the arc. I don't think Goku misjudges an opponent's strength during Z unless they hide their power, and Buu is normally straightforward when it comes to how strong he is.
Even an enraged fat Buu wouldn't beat ssj3 Goku at full power but the fact Goku was dead at the time means his body would exhaust easily and Buu would overwhelm him.
@@justinarzola4584 i thought it was the opposite with his spiritual body having functionally unlimited stamina. I thought it was implied he only figured out SSJ3 just because he was dead and could afford to blow huge amounts of energy in ways Vegeta couldn't.
@@justinarzola4584 I don't think that Goku's dead body would exhaust that easily. In fact, the opposite happened later on in the arc, with Goku's living body exhausting faster than his dead body. Fat Buu wouldn't be able to overwhelm Goku when he had his spiritual body.
Radditz: Let me Go Goku: OK Vegeta: **Barf** Goku: OK Freeze: "I'm not all together right now" Goku: OK Cell: "I'm tired but I'm not admitting to it" Goku: OK Buu: **Destroys humanity** Goku: "I Sure do love the young people".
My own personal head canon is that Super Buu (I'm talking pre-absorption of the Z Fighters) is as powerful as Fat Buu would've been at his full power. I mean it really makes sense when you think about it. As stated in your video, Evil Buu was no doubt around 60%-70%+ of the original Fat Buu's power considering how Good Buu was getting completely dominated by his evil counterpart. After turning the Good Buu into chocolate, Evil Buu ate him leading to the transformation into Super Buu. Basically, Buu's evil was in the driver's seat after being locked away in the trunk after absorbing the Kais eons ago. So, he was rampaging and letting his primal instincts take over kind of like Kid Buu (but with a little more sense than being a rapid dog let off of his chain).
Was also my understanding of how that scene went, Super Buu isn’t any stronger but the passive “good” natured aspect of himself just never displayed his true power. This is somewhat alluded too by Goku during his fight with Vegeta, he states something to the effect “it’s like Buu reached into a bottomless well of power”.
@@BigHeadClan This is just that, head canon, and also objectively wrong. It was flat-out stated that Super Buu was vastly more powerful than Fat Buu, and it was made clear that the good influence from the Grand Supreme Kai weakened him a lot. Like in general any amount of good influence on Buu was implied to significantly weaken him. Super Buu had all of the same components as Fat Buu (Kid Buu, South Supreme Kai, and Grand Supreme) except that he wasn't a restrained by good, yet he was still confirmed to be weaker than Buff Buu which was literally just Kid Buu + South Supreme Kai. Super Buu had the same exact absorption plus a whole extra one on top of that, yet he was still somehow weaker. What other explanation would there be for that other than that the little bit of good there was left was still restraining him and suppressing his strength to an extent? It's the only plausible reason, because other than that, logically Super Buu would've been stronger than Buff Buu since he also had South Supreme Kai as well as Grand Supreme Kai. So clearly any amount of good influence within Buu weakened him, and the stronger that influence was, the greater it suppressed his power. Fat Buu could get more powerful when he got angry, sure, but there was still a limit to it. If he got angry passed a certain point, as we clearly seen, it would just result in him expelling the evil from his body and creating a separate Buu. So Fat Buu never had the same potential as Super Buu regardless of how angry he got. Furthermore, even when we actually did see him get angry, he never actually did anything to suggest that he was on that level in the first place. His best feat was stomping Vegeta, which literally any of the three main Buus (Fat, Kid, and Super) could've done.
Yes, Super Buu was more powerful because he SHOWED more power, but Fat Buu always had it in reserve. Super Buu is literally made of the same halves that Fat Buu was. It's thee same car with a meaner driver.@@handzofstone1152
If he had gone all out right from the getgo and unleashed ALL his power fast and blasted Buu with all of it, I feel he'd win. But even allowing the fight to drag like it did for any amount of time would have depleated his energy too far, and he wouldn't be capable of fully killing Buu. But this kind of attack isnt in Goku's character, to just obliterate someone without holding back, instantly. But I do think it's possible he had the ability to do it.
nah he was DOMINATING buu he definitely could have fought him and killed him if he needed too it just would have taken like all of his time left on earth
And this is to go beyond is the most epic one liner ever, and including the screaming as one long sentence would make it the longest sentence ever 🤣🤣🤣🤣
IRK Goku said he would be capable of that, the only version of Buu he said was trouble for his SSJ3 was base Super Buu, now Fat Buu and Kid Buu he could defeat using 100% of his power.
@@thechild7355 he never said that. Vegeta even mentioned, just go full power ssj3 and destroy him and goku IMMEDIATELY replied with : "that's what I'VE BEEN TRYING TO DO" (chapter 511) in chapter 510 goku already said that he's going to full power immediately because if they lose, everything ends. Goku actually never even intended for vegeta to even got a turn, vegeta noticed this in chapter 511 and confronted goku about it but goku was playing dumb so as to not hurt vegeta's feelings. In chapter 512 vegeta told goku to gather his energy which goku said : "will you be fine? If you die here, you vanished forever". Which supported what vegeta thought in previous chapter that goku really did go full power since he wasn't planning to let vegeta fight and be killed while being dead.
@@thechild7355 of course. Hence why we read the manga and not watch the anime when discussing about these. The anime includes lots of stuff that never happened + the dub was inaccurate sometimes
I just thought of something: Couldn't Shin or Kibito teleported Fat Buu to the Kiaoshin realm so that Goku while dead can fight him as a SS3 without restrictions?
Maybe Buu was too powerful for him to teleport against his will to such a grand, incomprehensible distance like that? Def a good question though for sure
Great video Mike! Even though Goku says he could've beat him, based on how Buu was written to seemingly come back from anything and without even losing any stamina, I don't think so. Other than the spirit bomb or maybe the Mafuba, it didn't seem like anything could really stop him regardless if later forms are stronger.
Well done Mike excellent analyzing. The point is- Kakarrot didn't fight to win he fought to delay and we should all remember that. Kakarrot would have destroyed Good Boo (fat is an insulting title) if he really wanted to. Personally I don't like how SSJ3 looks like but it's powerful non the less. Could you please make a video about the real Japanese anime characters names? I think we should all use the real names, although some I don't like (especially Bejita-Vegeta sounds much better) and one name change I actually do like (Chaozu-Chiaotzu).
Goku not knowing the full power and complete capabilities of Majin Buu, reminds me of a fan made TH-cam short -- that I watched, yesterday-- that had Goku travel to a different dimension, and encountered beings with techniques and power scales that he needed to adjust to on the fly, just to compete with.
I like the concept of Goku losing to fat buu because it makes a better story when the characters are not always right when they say how strong they are
I'm pretty sure fat Buu would win this one. Buu will tank all of Goku's attacks until he tires out. SSJ3 puts a lot of strain on Goku's body and he cant maintain the form for a long period of time. Buu will simply regenerate until Goku is out of stamina. There's a reason why Buu was not included in the tournament of power, his stamina and regeneration abilities are broken af. He would have carried most of the fights.
I would recommend you watch the fight again. Clearly Buu CAN be defeated by a strong enough Ki attack. That entire fight Goku is absolutely dominating Buu. Buu almost can't even hit him, largely only doing so with his weird body catching goku by surprise. Even then nothing Buu does even leaves a scratch on Goku. Goku doesn't sweat, doesn't pant, no sign of fatigue at all. He is in his spirit body which apparently alleviates the fatigue issue for SSJ3 anyways. The main issue is that the transformation limited Goku's time, and he spends the entire fight more stressed about Trunks getting the lead out. Goku mostly spends the fight using physical attacks (presumably to save energy) which obviously won't affect Buu, and a few really quick snap Ki attacks. It really feels like Goku is several times stronger than Buu and is just using the form to buy time because he wants the kids to be equipped to protect the earth without him.
@@messiah2203 If Goku's physical attacks are useless, then he would have to use a ki attack to kill Buu. We saw Buu being able to regenerate from almost nothing. So his strongest Ki attacks would be also useless, since Buu would just come back like nothing happened, leaving Goku weaker because he wasted all his energy. I'm not sure how Goku would be able to kill Buu at this point.
@gernou92 I definitely agree that physical attacks are useless. I'm of the impression he wasn't using his strongest ki attacks either. Through the entire fight, he's mentally keeping tabs on trunks and even shouts to him to get moving. His internal monologue also reveals his goal is to buy time. We know SSJ2 Goku us useless against Buu because he's on par with Vegeta, and Vegeta got wrecked. So he's forced to use SSJ3 if he's going to pull this off. King Kai freaks out because, apparently, the more energy he puts out, the faster it burns through his time. My takeaway is that he could have dumped all that energy into a single powerful Kamehameha, and it probably would have worked, but he'd be taken away. This would leave the earth defenseless. Vegeta is dead, Gohan isn't mystic, and the boys can't fuse. Furthermore, if any piece of buu escapes destruction, no one would be strong enough to stop him. So instead of using the form to destroy buu, he uses the form to safely slow buu down. I think given how Buu is completely incapable of scratching him and Goku doesn't even break a sweat it's very clearly he's several times stronger than buu, way more powerful than necessary to get the job done but doing so would ruin his goals of leaving a legacy behind when he's on a timer.
@@gernou92The problem is that vegetas self destruction attack put out more destructive power then what Goku is able display in ssj3 without completely wearing him out. Goku only survived because he BAITED Kid Buu into a fun fight and then used attacks that could destroy him but never landed to set him up for a massive attack. All of which failed but endlessly entertained kid Buu. A kid Buu I might add who was at no point using his full power. Think I'm kidding? He beat fat Buu, who is as strong as he was when he was first introduced, like a pinata. The fat Buu who tanked and fought ssj3 gokus best attacks and could have murked him. the only thing fat Buu could do to kid buu was make him momentarily tired from kicking his ass.
I'm only 10 mins into the vid so idk if Mike mentions this, but fat Buu clearly wasn't fighting very seriously either vs SS3. It wasn't a guarantee that Goku could waste him right then and there
Exactly & people seem to forget that Goku was doing a lot of non stop fighting through our the Buu arc so Goku was exhausted. If Goku wasn't exhausted then he could easily beat Fat Buu
It's obvious, isn't it? Goku would fire a finisher Kamehameha and it would destroy 99.999% of Buu's body. But then his time would run out and he'd be send to otherworld. However it might give them another day of training if the damage is sufficient enough to drop Buu's ki for that long.
Thank you for making this video! You’ve been making every video I’ve suggested so I really appreciate you taking the time to make these & all the other awesome content you’ve been making these days. Keep up the awesome work man! You’re killing it! Another one I just thought of (which you’re probably gonna be all about lol) is Gohan Vs Tagoma. Frieza butted in the middle of the fight & even though it did seem like maybe Gohan was getting the upper hand there for a minute, he was so out of shape he most likely wouldn’t have been able to fight at that level for long. The dude almost died just powering up to tell Goku to get his ass back to the planet & save it for the 11th time. Plus it was Vegeta & not Gohan who took him out, & I feel like Tagoma/Ginyu was about to turn that fight around on him.
Goku felt like he could have killed fat buu he said it. But he didn't do a full power kamehameha bc he wanted the kids to kill him. He only gave an average kamehameha when he punched a hole thru fat buu's belly. All you have to do is completely destroy his body at once to kill him. Not splatter him everywhere with an attack like the ghost kamikaze.
Im not sure if it's intentional but it may be. I love the setup for your vids and the fact you can link them all to your other vids involving the scenario your talking about, to reduce going over the same things or if it peaks someone's interest who doesn't know your work. Leaving no stone unturned and giving everyone what they want. It's like you touch all the elements and nuances surrounding a situation with other videos then follow up those videos with something that puts it all together. It's very clever
I would love to see a video on if goku got a zenkai boost from returning to life. Honestly I just assumed he did, just cause it's a easy excuse for a power up lol
I'm gonna say this again and I'll keep it simple. Goku did not have enough power to defeat Fat Buu. Every attack Goku launched, Buu just copied it and sent it back. Goku blitzed Buu. Buu blitzed Goku. Goku fired a kamehameha. Buu fired back. The one time Goku landed a solid kick, he nearly died. Buu was having the time of his life and Goku was screaming. Goku was holding back, but so was Buu. The difference is that after 5 minutes, Goku was exhausted, while Buu was fine. There was no technique in Goku's arsenal capable of putting Buu down.
to kill fat buu he would have to use a full power ssj3 Kamehameha if it fails he gets immediately sent to the other world for burning his time on earth.
I agree whit everything said on the video, it was my understanding of it when i was 11 and it still is, for me it just takes basic text comprehension to reach those conclusions.
Another thing to point out is that Majin Buu isn’t just a martial artist, naturally powerful alien or an android; he’s literally magic, so the nature of his power and his limits are harder to nail down than other characters in Dragon Ball
I think he could've beat Fat Buu if he was still dead and at the beginning of his time on Earth, but SSJ3 uses so much power that he wouldn't have had a chance to by the time Buu showed up after fighting Vegeta in SSJ2 and going through the entire day of the tournament/fighting through Babidi's ship
Buu had the most OP regeneration in the original DB manga. He could even come back from ashes, smoke or being atomized. He can come back from a single molecule, maybe even a quark. That is far smaller than a Cell, which is Cell’s lv of regeneration. Buu’s rubber body is also a perfect counter to martial artists or melee attackers (like Luffy). Gohan even said “What is he? His skin absorbs all the blows I give him!” As Vegito showed, the way to beat Buu is to be far stronger than him and force him to exert more and more Ki, as at one point, Vegito pounded him so hard, Buu failed to notice a hole in his stomach after regenerating. Being at his level or slightly stronger wont work in your favor. His anatomy is too unique. Buu is near immortal basically.
Every child on Earth watching that Dub live That "And this"........ "whats he doing?"....."is to go...even further.... beyond..... ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh" My inner child triggers Like Gohan losing control hitting SS2 everytime i hear that line 😂😂😂
this is how you power scale-- using the narrative and feats and logic. not "data" books and what the mangaka said (when they FORGET and EVEN SAY THEY FORGET) disregarding what the characters say/do..
The real plothole was that Goku could have just teleported to Capsule Corp and gotten the Dragon radar himself. Would have saved a lot of time and need I say ENERGY as well?
We have to take into consideration goku had just learnt ssj3 shortly before returning to earth. He likely didnt know the full extent of his max power at that point just an idea, this is why he says "he probably could have won" I've always viewed ssj3 and ultimate gohan as relative to eachother, i know somewhere it said they rival eachother power wise
Buu. Goku doesn't have anything in his kit that would destroy Buu. Buu would keep coming back until Hoku just got tired, like against Kid Buu. And even if Goku used Spirit Bomb in SSJ3, that's external, so he'd need everyone to share their energy, which for multiple reasons wouldn't end up well for Goku
Maybe Goku said he could have taken Buu down because Goku could sense Buu's true nature as an avatar, and so instinctually knew by destroying every atom, he could have severed Buu's connection to reality, or knew a spirit bomb could cause a feedback loop on the source of the avatar.
Can you do a video on how Frieza was able to sustain his time in the real world during the tournament of power when he was revived for a day? Frieza used a lot of power during the tournament and should’ve been teleported back to Other World.
@@austinmatney7591Yeah but when you use a lot of energy, your time drains. Frieza was literally wielding power comparable to the gods, so it had to drain his time drastically.
19:15 I don't understand how this happens. Do people read the manga with their eyes closed? It's right there on the page, there's not much wiggle room for interpretation, and still people want to argue that their favorite character is stronger than another character when the story says otherwise, even in this comment section this is happening
This is basically the conclusion I came to. This was a Goku that was far less familiar with Buu's regeneration abilities, and even when he fought Kid Buu later, he still underestimated how much regeneration Buu had. So while SSJ3 Goku was most likely stronger than Fat Buu, it wasn't by anywhere near enough to actually destroy him past his regeneration. The only way he could win is if he had no time limit at all, and could continue fighting in spirit form until winning. And even then, it's unclear whether he could do it before he ran out of energy.
goku with high difficulty, (I forgot about super buu coming back from smoke) he'd really have to go nuts with his kamehameha and ensure it's wide enough to engulf buu completely and then some.
I am of the opinion that Goku was more powerful than Buu at that moment, but not enough to actually kill Buu outright. Especially with how draining SS3 is. Whether he was alive or dead in that moment didn't matter. He wasn't going to win, because either way, he was on a time limit. It's a good thing he was already dead though, or he probably wouldn't have done as he did - giving Buu something to look forward to - and thus would have died, or worse, been absorbed.
Technically, energy can be measured in ounces. An ounce can be a unit of mass, a division of the mass-pound. Energy is equivalent to mass through e=mc². A lot of energy has a very small mass. But maybe ounces would be an efficient way to measure the output of a Kamehameha.
@Laughingstock Media Maybe we should call FAT Buu.... GRAND SUPREME BUU now.... He needs a lil love.... I also have a theory.... Angel Goku, Destroyer Vegeta, supreme Kai Gohan, and Grand Supreme MAJUUB.... What do you guys think?
Whoever claims SS3 Goku is on Buutenks level is clearly smoking something good or is a SS3 Goku fanboy. In the anime, Buutenks didn't even try and dominated SS3 Goku. Goku was only able to land a ki attack on him because he was focused on preventing Gohan from getting the potara. Not to mention, in the manga, Ultimate Gohan can't even touch Buutenks so to imply that Goku is that far beyond Gohan is completely ludicrous. In the manga, it's implied a couple of times how Goku is weaker than Super Buu, which is covered by LaughingStock. So, I don't know what people are watching but it must be fan made. If Goku was on the level of Buutenks, what would be the point of him trying to fuse with Gohan during the fight? People really need to use their brains, read the manga, and stop watching an incorrect dub of the show that makes up dialogue.
Okay, I'm confused when Gotenks and Piccolo were zapping the Buu pieces, and then Buu's smoke regenerated, and they said they should've used chi blasts...is that not what they were doing?
1. Honestly Fat Buu is most likely as strong as Super Buu. There is no reas either one should be weaker as both are the result of the fusion betwen Kid Buu and a Kai. Successful fusion ALWAYS makes the resulting being stronger. The only difference between Super Buu and Fat Buu was Mindset. Fat Buu wasn't even trying against DEAD Lv3 Goku while Kid Buu was definitely weaker than Goku as he "killed " kid buu many times before losing stamina 2. Its not an asspull that Buu can hurt Buu himself it makes perfect sense. Both are immune to Ki and Physical attcks but they are pure demon energy. The Spirit Bomb being the only thing in Goku's arsenal that can kill Buu shows that it takes either Demon, God Ki, or Life Force (Genki) energy to take out Buu Hell maybe magic can do it but Ki and Hands certainly can't. Another reason why DBS Rretcons are trash because Ultimate Gohan was quite literally THE FIRST SAIYAN GOD.
Maybe we should think of this Goku in this form as Cell arc's Super Vegeta form; it's good and usable, but further mastery comes later from others and it's not gonna be what finishes the fight
I don't really think that's true. Buu is only really able to even hit Goku by surprising him, and even then he does absolutely no damage. Goku wasn't breaking a sweat or breathing heavy by the end of the fight. He was in completely and total control the entire time. During the entire fight his attention was more on Trunks and it was pretty clear he was just biding time and trying not to burn too much energy. Clearly Goku wasn't gonna get it done by punching him, but it's very obvious he was overwhelmingly more powerful than Fat Buu and had the capacity to do it if you watch the fight. If SSJ3 Goku couldn't do it, then frankly Fat Buu is just literally unkillable and entire world is doomed and nothing anybody could have done would have stopped him and that's just not true.
9:50 I think Goku tells Buu that someone more powerful than him will fight him just to calm him down. Furthermore, Goku didn't tell anyone at that moment that he was actually more powerful than he had shown up to that point, so I don't think Goku really thought that Gotenks SSJ1 would necessarily be more powerful than him.
to be honest aside from the couple instances where the good guys get the higher ground on buu, he is pretty much destroying them the entire arc. everyone that was firmly stronger than buu got absorbed intentionally or unintentionally and didnt end him at the end of the day. it shows how fierce of a monster buu was in that saga. he was successfully pushing back the spirit bomb until deus ex dragon balls came in the clutch and fully restored gokus powers.
At best full power at the start could have weakened Buu to where Gotanks finishes the job. Would be a decent ending where the fathers do what must be done so their kids live. Some technique to prevent regeneration or something which is unlikely. Or have Hercule finish him off LOL!
25:00 Now your argument doesn't make sense, because now you rely on "potentially" for your proof? There is no reason to think that Fat Buu is weaker in a fight against Kid Buu than in a fight against Goku, but here we are only shown the difference between Kid Buu and Fat Buu, and that fat buu doesn't have infinite stamina, and that he can be defeated. I really don't understand how you put weight on Goku's speculation that the fusion between Goten and Trunks will have enough power to beat Buu, and you invalidate Goku's statement that he could have beaten Fat Buu, you can't belittle characters statements only when they don't suit you. Goku could have definitely win against Fat Buu if he unleashed his full power in his attack where Fat Buu would be completely obliterated by the attack like when spirit bomb obliterated Kid Buu, and the moment Goku was done he would be transported to the afterlife immediately with no chance of saying goodbye to everyone.
The spirit bomb kind of reminds me of sage chakra from Naruto. In one of your other video Mike you called it I think spirit ki? Anyway what I’m getting at is maybe Buu could only be killed by that certain type of ki or perhaps from the ki of another Buu. He is a mystical being after all so it would make sense he has a different type of ki
No. He has ki, that's what he used to fight everyone. He's also an insane evil god child who has real deal magic powers. Literally the only thing Goku and the rest at the time had that could stop him was genki dama. A holy magic attack made of life energy.
i have a theory and i'll write it vefore watching the video: I think the original fat boo (before the split) has the same power level that super boo, but his power level was hidden behind his calm personality. Like Gohan as a kid/teenager. After the split and the evil side eating the good side, super boo just unlocks the full potential that he *already* has, i think that's pretty easy to assume watching/reading the boo saga. How can Fat + Gray Boo split and merge and become stronger? that power was inside boo all along, ok, no big deal. But then my theory of *how* the original Fat Boo can reach his full potential: When he get angry, he can use all of his power, basically when he gets mad and starts smoking all along.. that's when he's using his full power and we don't see he using that power against ssj3 goku. He used it against vegeta and easily overwhelms him, goku doesn't know boo full potential.. vegeta AND gohan thought he wasn't so powerful before watching him get mad, ok, goku could make some predictions about his power level but why would he be correct? he could be wrong. For me, fat boo using his full power could overwhelm ssj3 goku. Doesn't make sense to me that fat boo using his full potential could be weaker than kid boo. Also, i do think kid boo could beat super saiyan 3 goku even if he got more stamina. Kid boo never got serious in the fight, i don't like to assume that the characters are right about their power levels all the time. A lot of times in the franchise we see the protagonists assuming that their power can beat someone and in fact they can't. Well thats my interpretation of the situation on buu saga.
I think Goku was right in his assessment of Buu’s power compared to his own. However, an enemy like Majin Buu could only be destroyed with an utterly overwhelming blast of energy, hence why the Genkidama was the only option that could close out the fight. As it stood, SSJ3 Goku had the upper hand, but not enough raw output (or the time, for that matter) to completely disintegrate Fat Buu
As Goku said himself, Super Saiyan 3 is powerful, but it chugs energy, and to the point where he could not maintain or recover it when he really needed it against Kid Buu. I believe that similar would occur against Fat Buu, because during the fight in which he DID use that transformation, I didn't see him actually do much to Buu in the first place. I think because *none of this stuff* has ever really delivered permanent harm to Majin Buu, Buu would still win that fight. Or, worse yet, he shoots out Evil Buu, Evil Buu eats Fat Buu, and then Super Buu kicks Goku around the planet. It was the Spirit Bomb that actually killed Majin Buu. Without thinking about it and using its evil-destroying properties, Goku would never have won on his own.
Awesome And Accurate the video. Here is Trivia..According Dragon ball gt jjournal 43 and Dragonball El Manga Legendario Super Saiyan Grade 3 and Grade 4 is x500 Times Base Power Level. SS2 is x2 Times Stronger then SS Grade 4 and SS3 is x8 Times Stronger then Grade 4. Therefore SS3 is 80 Times Stronger SS Grade 1/Intial Level.
Now that I think about it... considering time/energy affect 24H time allow in the mortal world. Is there an official explanation why Frieza got more a time despite using more energy in the "tournament of power"...?
I think Goku COULD have done it if he went all out and he was actually trying to kill him but the issues is he never fights like that so it wouldn’t happen
I see the inital Fat Buu, Kid Buu, and Super Buu all in the same ballpark of power. Fat Buu i believe being tye weakest marginally. That said Fat Buu is much more docile then Kid Buu, so i think SS3 Goku would overpower Fat Buu and create an opening to vaporize him.
Kid Buu was able to actually knock out and threaten a weakened Fat Buu, implicating to me that a higher ki pool, and low enough ki on part of the Majin opponent can defeat the Buu in question. I think Goku could have tried a battle of attrition in SSJ2, and then attempt to wipe him out with a truly massive attack in SSJ3.
I see a lot of ppl still confused on this one but i really think no matter what regardless to what goku later says he was wrong goku could not beat fat buu his regen was too op for him & goku putting out that much energy in that form was burning him out faster than he could get the dub not even mentioning his limit on earth while being dead and no i also dont think he would be qble to beat him if he was alive either
I don't agree for a few reasons: 1. Goku wasn't even remotely tired during the fight. No scuffs, no panting, no sweat. He was in complete and total control the entire fight, likely several times stronger than Buu. His stamina wasn't even remotely an issue. It's pretty clear the time limit and his desire to pass on the fusion technique was the only limit. 2. Buu CAN be vaporized. If Buu was truly that invincible, then nothing anybody did mattered. SSJ3 Gotenks, Mystic Gohan, nothing. Buu CAN be defeated, it just requires enough overwhelming power and Goku was clearly capable of it. I think if Goku was willing to burn all his energy in a single glorious kamehameha he'd have utterly atomized Buu. Doing so would result in leaving the world defenseless (mystic gohan isn't a thing yet, and no gotenks, vegeta is dead), and if he missed and left a little puff of buu around somewhere then NO one could stop him.
So I have a theory this fight if Goku went all out wouldn't end on Earth it would have ended on the Supreme Kai's planet much like it did against Kid Buu, or at the very least the other world planet. Because as the fight would gave gone on longer Goku would have seen the depths of Buu's regeneration which Goku would have realized was greater than Cell's. So as Goku's timer is ticking down Goku would have come to two conclusions is that that he does enough power to take out Majin Buu he just needs to do it in Other World as a dead man where stamina doesn't factor in. Also Goku would have chosen this because he would have realized Trunks, Goten, and Gohan don't have the ability to beat an opponent like this. So Goku's timer would have run out his halo would have returned and as Baba returns Goku asks if Buu would want to continue their fight Buu of course would have said yes. Now Baba wouldn't want to take Buu with them but Goku would have insisted Baba take both of them which Baba would do reluctantly given she trusts Goku. Once in Other World the fight would resume and Goku's stamina wouldn't be an issue and ultimately Goku would have used the Spirit Bomb to take out Majin Buu only this time he's taking it from the greatest fighters in the universe of all time. So the end result would be the same against Majin Buu as it was against Kid Buu. Because I don't agree with that we don't see the depths of Majin Buu's power I think we do and Majin is roughly on par with a Super Sayian 2 because this version is the weakest out of his forms it's simply his regeneration is just so OP you don't realize because he is Cell and the Andriods combine, his power doesn't decrease and he can regenerate. Vegeta realized this in his fight hence why he used the Final Explosion which he only uses as a last ditch effort like on earth during the Sayian Saga. But while Goku may have to cheat I think Goku would have chosen this root learning from his mistake during the Cell fight that while his kids might have the power to defeat higher level villains do they have the experience and will to do it.
One of the problems with fighting Buu is that you're not even fighting a body. You can reduce him to atoms. It won't matter. You're fighting his entire ki pool, which you have to wipe out of existence. So one big kamehameha won't do anything unless it's stronger than the totality of every point of ki Buu has. Basically, the only thing you can do is try to drain his ki to nothing by repeatedly damaging him and forcing him to use up his ki to maintain a body. And you're using up your own ki in the process. So you have to not only have more ki than Buu (probably, unless you're crazy skilled and efficient), but you also have to thoroughly beat him in every clash without making any mistakes or being taken by surprise, all while trying to ensure your own body never takes any major damage or that you get physically exhausted. (KILLING BUU IS VERY HARD.)
I have no doubt Goku had no chance at all of finishing off Fat Buu even without a time limit, although he probably could have destroyed his body thoroughly in the same way he did Cell. It just wouldn't have stuck.
i miss you plague MAKE ANOTHER DB VIDEO 🤬❤️
My own impression was more that Buu could regenerate from the atomic level. To destroy Buu, it wasn't that you had to burn out his energy necessarily, though that would have also worked, but that you'd have to eradicate every single individual atom, otherwise his life force would still have something to be tied to and regrow his entire body through, like Cell on steroids. While nightmarishly hard to destroy unless you brought overwhelming power to bear, or a level of smarts that weren't really shown off by the Z-fighters (with the plan to trap Buu inside the Time Chamber notwithstanding) Buu's own arrogance and/or stupidity was at least a self-nerf that allowed Goku and company to EVENTUALLY win, since, you know...
... Imagine if Kid Buu had somehow had the brainpower and foresight to leave a few spare atoms scattered across the solar system, riding the explosion of when he destroyed the Earth. That Spirit Bomb and the wish on Porunga would have been all wasted effort.
But doesn't Buu have infinite ki? So it's impossible to wear him down.
@@captaincraftit696 Some big brain thoughts going on in here. I like that "Kid Buu never died... he's still in space" point lol. They could still use that plot point.
I think another, admittedly 5 brained 4D chess player way of stopping Kid Buu is if a pure hearted being was absorbed by Mr Buu. Pick either Goku, Goten or Gohan. Either way, Mr. Buu would have his intelligence, his added strength, *_but ultimately the added benefit of reliably hurting Kid Buu plain and simple since apparently "Only Buus can hurt a Buu"._*
And it all ends with a happy outcome since Mr Buu could just spit the absorbed one back out. There you go. Being absorbed doesn't have to be all that bad if both are on the same page. Can you imagine if the Buu Saga ended with Mr. Buuku vs Kid Buu? I mean the tools was all there. It's just that no one thought about it.
@@LucidTUN3S My thoughts weren't necessarily that Kid Buu could still be in space, but more that if Kid Buu had been smart, he could've left a tiny, tiny bit of himself out in space just in case he was otherwise completely destroyed. Or ideally, multiple tiny bits scattered far and wide to make destroying him without some sort of hax or just destroying the entire universe nigh-impossible. It would've made everything the Z-fighters had done all a total wash right to the very end, but arrogance/stupidity was too big a self-nerf in the end!
But yeah, honestly, like you said, a smart play on Goku and company's part would have been to have Good Buu temporarily assimilate all the Z-fighters. It would've been an absolute slaughter in the Z-fighters' favor, and Good Buu would easily be able to release them afterwards. Not exactly as dramatic as the ending we got, but a smarter use of resources and manpower at the very least.
I love that you mentioned how buu came back from SMOKE so frequently. Most people underestimate that feat and how hard he actually is to kill.
I honestly believe Buu couldn’t be defeated by brute strength. Even with SSJ3, Goku still would of had to use other means such as the spirit bomb.
@twotymez9135 100% his regeneration goes even further beyond.
@@twotymez9135 I think Buu can be destroyed with a Ki blast if the opponent is overwhelmingly more powerful. Ultimate Gohan could’ve destroyed Super Buu and Super Vegito could’ve destroyed Buuhan.
@@twotymez9135 wasn't Kid Buu beating Fat Buu to death?
@@teriyakisauce7320that's mr buu, technically the same individual but fat buu is way stronger than the one that fought kid buu
Ill never get tired of the meme of Fat Buu starts firing random ki blast and Goku bein like 'That's Vegetas technique!' xD
My personal head cannon is Goku was more powerful than Majin Buu as a SSJ3 but with the endurance drain and Buu s insane regeneration makes this fight much closer imo.
Love yr content
@@BardockSkywalkerEven with the time limit Goku knew he could have beaten Buu if he really wanted to.
@@BardockSkywalker The only thing he didn't know about was his absorption ability. And even after seeing all of that. He still stated he could have beaten the Fat Buu (Right before he fought Kid Buu). And rarely if ever is he wrong about when he makes a projection like that.
@kevinlee9929 he didn't know about his regeneration abilities to the full extent either. Because if he had seen what happen between Gotenks and Super Buu in the time chamber, he would have known otherwise
@@MrReese8732 Yes he did. At that point Buu had blown up Earth and regenerated, blown himself up vs Gohan and regenerated, and regenerated during the fight with Vegetto. Goku was fully aware of it.
Exactly Buu has greater stamina, endurance and abilities than Goku so this fight was a lot closer than SSJ Goku vs Frieza Goku couldn't beat Buu without a fusion or Spirit bomb at least
Please never stop with the manga art thumbnails. They’re some of my favorite thumbnails on TH-cam. This one is especially great 🔥🔥🔥
I always laugh at the dub line where Goku says “I’m guessing an ascended Super Saiyan isn’t much of a challenge for you?”
Goku ROASTING Vegeta!!! 😂
I think it's worth noting that the initial Fat Buu, before he splits off from the evil, gets power spikes when he becomes genuinely pissed, best seen with Vegeta when he just blows him away by angrily shooting out energy. With Goku, he just saw it as a game, so I don't think Goku even saw the full extent of his power. (Just got to the part of the video where you reached the same conclusion, lol)
This is the same Goku who let Vegeta go in the Saiyan Saga, gave Frieza some energy to live and also gave Cell a Senzu Bean.
LoL!
The Cell senzu bean is a nice parallel to when Cell let Trunks and Vegeta live IMO.
Which you completely misunderstood all three of those, lol
Electric cheetah go because he wanted to be the one to defeat him cuz he killed his friends Frieza because he begged for his life and he was no longer a threat to him because he was stronger don't give me your hindsight that he could go around blowing up other planets Goku knew that if he could just bring them back with the dragon balls and then killed friza the bean was literally him trying to give Gohan the confidence to defeat cell not because he wanted a fair fight
He also gave Piccolo Jr. a sensu bean as well and foolishly released Raditz from his grip, only to get beaten for it.
@@ChiChiLand299goku himself even admitted that he's wrong both when he let frieza go AND for giving cell senzu and let him torture gohan.
Thank you for using your brain and being accurate, not just saying Goku to please the fans. Brave man, keep up the good work 🙏🏻
Goku was holding back so much power during that fight. He was just stalling for time because he really wanted Trunks and Goten to save Earth with their fusion.
We have no idea how much or if any power he was holding back. He never had the ability to defeat buu, it takes much stronger characters than him to do the job.
Excuses
@emmanuelopoku-ware Even Piccolo knew that Goku was holding back against the Fat Buu. Which is why he asked him about it when he got back to the Lookout.
@emmanuelopoku-ware the reason he couldn't kill kid buu was stamina. it's literally stated that goku could have killed fat buu but wanted goten and trunks to kill him instead. it's literally black on white in the manga. not surprised to see your comment having likes nonetheless, we're talking about the youtube comment section after all
@@me67galaxylife ⚡️no, it is not STATED that Goku was going to or could have killed Fat Buu. Stop making sht up😂
That line of, To go further beyond always got me
It's actually even! Further beyond 😅 the even makes it even better 🤣 then just further beyond
When piccolo sees mystic Gohan for the first time, he compares the transformation to super saiyan 3, soooooo.........Additionally, the plan was for goku to fuse with mystic gohan, someone with similar power levels. And if he was weaker than buu after he lost gotenks's power, goku wouldn't have casually depowered from SSJ3 to base, and teased buu to his face.
I honestly think that Super Saiyan 3 Goku could have defeated fat Buu had they been allowed to finish their fight. Goku did have the advantage over fat Buu during a majority of the fight, and Goku was just stalling in that fight. Goku even thought he could have defeated fat Buu when he brought up their fight later on in the arc. I don't think Goku misjudges an opponent's strength during Z unless they hide their power, and Buu is normally straightforward when it comes to how strong he is.
Even an enraged fat Buu wouldn't beat ssj3 Goku at full power but the fact Goku was dead at the time means his body would exhaust easily and Buu would overwhelm him.
@@justinarzola4584 i thought it was the opposite with his spiritual body having functionally unlimited stamina.
I thought it was implied he only figured out SSJ3 just because he was dead and could afford to blow huge amounts of energy in ways Vegeta couldn't.
@@justinarzola4584 I don't think that Goku's dead body would exhaust that easily. In fact, the opposite happened later on in the arc, with Goku's living body exhausting faster than his dead body. Fat Buu wouldn't be able to overwhelm Goku when he had his spiritual body.
Radditz: Let me Go
Goku: OK
Vegeta: **Barf**
Goku: OK
Freeze: "I'm not all together right now"
Goku: OK
Cell: "I'm tired but I'm not admitting to it"
Goku: OK
Buu: **Destroys humanity**
Goku: "I Sure do love the young people".
My own personal head canon is that Super Buu (I'm talking pre-absorption of the Z Fighters) is as powerful as Fat Buu would've been at his full power.
I mean it really makes sense when you think about it. As stated in your video, Evil Buu was no doubt around 60%-70%+ of the original Fat Buu's power considering how Good Buu was getting completely dominated by his evil counterpart.
After turning the Good Buu into chocolate, Evil Buu ate him leading to the transformation into Super Buu. Basically, Buu's evil was in the driver's seat after being locked away in the trunk after absorbing the Kais eons ago. So, he was rampaging and letting his primal instincts take over kind of like Kid Buu (but with a little more sense than being a rapid dog let off of his chain).
Was also my understanding of how that scene went, Super Buu isn’t any stronger but the passive “good” natured aspect of himself just never displayed his true power.
This is somewhat alluded too by Goku during his fight with Vegeta, he states something to the effect “it’s like Buu reached into a bottomless well of power”.
@@BigHeadClan This is just that, head canon, and also objectively wrong. It was flat-out stated that Super Buu was vastly more powerful than Fat Buu, and it was made clear that the good influence from the Grand Supreme Kai weakened him a lot. Like in general any amount of good influence on Buu was implied to significantly weaken him. Super Buu had all of the same components as Fat Buu (Kid Buu, South Supreme Kai, and Grand Supreme) except that he wasn't a restrained by good, yet he was still confirmed to be weaker than Buff Buu which was literally just Kid Buu + South Supreme Kai. Super Buu had the same exact absorption plus a whole extra one on top of that, yet he was still somehow weaker. What other explanation would there be for that other than that the little bit of good there was left was still restraining him and suppressing his strength to an extent? It's the only plausible reason, because other than that, logically Super Buu would've been stronger than Buff Buu since he also had South Supreme Kai as well as Grand Supreme Kai. So clearly any amount of good influence within Buu weakened him, and the stronger that influence was, the greater it suppressed his power. Fat Buu could get more powerful when he got angry, sure, but there was still a limit to it. If he got angry passed a certain point, as we clearly seen, it would just result in him expelling the evil from his body and creating a separate Buu. So Fat Buu never had the same potential as Super Buu regardless of how angry he got. Furthermore, even when we actually did see him get angry, he never actually did anything to suggest that he was on that level in the first place. His best feat was stomping Vegeta, which literally any of the three main Buus (Fat, Kid, and Super) could've done.
Yes, Super Buu was more powerful because he SHOWED more power, but Fat Buu always had it in reserve. Super Buu is literally made of the same halves that Fat Buu was. It's thee same car with a meaner driver.@@handzofstone1152
If he had gone all out right from the getgo and unleashed ALL his power fast and blasted Buu with all of it, I feel he'd win. But even allowing the fight to drag like it did for any amount of time would have depleated his energy too far, and he wouldn't be capable of fully killing Buu. But this kind of attack isnt in Goku's character, to just obliterate someone without holding back, instantly. But I do think it's possible he had the ability to do it.
nah he was DOMINATING buu he definitely could have fought him and killed him if he needed too it just would have taken like all of his time left on earth
@@mallgod4265 unlikely serious fat buu is prob far superior to ssj3 goku
@@cheezywheezy5568 Fat Buu was not stronger than SSJ3 Goku
And this is to go beyond is the most epic one liner ever, and including the screaming as one long sentence would make it the longest sentence ever 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Love all your videos Mike, thanks for all the work you do 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
I’m really loving these videos mike you are really making some good points and asking some good questions about something’s i always wondered
IRK Goku said he would be capable of that, the only version of Buu he said was trouble for his SSJ3 was base Super Buu, now Fat Buu and Kid Buu he could defeat using 100% of his power.
Yeah but he also thought he could just beat kid buu but was proven wrong during the fight. He might've just been overconfident, we'll never know.
@@lolcall5295 Goku mentioned he thought Vegeta wanted a turn against kid buu. That's why he didn't go 100% from the beginning.
@@thechild7355 he never said that. Vegeta even mentioned, just go full power ssj3 and destroy him and goku IMMEDIATELY replied with : "that's what I'VE BEEN TRYING TO DO" (chapter 511) in chapter 510 goku already said that he's going to full power immediately because if they lose, everything ends. Goku actually never even intended for vegeta to even got a turn, vegeta noticed this in chapter 511 and confronted goku about it but goku was playing dumb so as to not hurt vegeta's feelings. In chapter 512 vegeta told goku to gather his energy which goku said : "will you be fine? If you die here, you vanished forever". Which supported what vegeta thought in previous chapter that goku really did go full power since he wasn't planning to let vegeta fight and be killed while being dead.
@@lolcall5295 Sounds like the dub didn't accurately display what was said in the manga.
@@thechild7355 of course. Hence why we read the manga and not watch the anime when discussing about these. The anime includes lots of stuff that never happened + the dub was inaccurate sometimes
I just thought of something: Couldn't Shin or Kibito teleported Fat Buu to the Kiaoshin realm so that Goku while dead can fight him as a SS3 without restrictions?
Maybe Buu was too powerful for him to teleport against his will to such a grand, incomprehensible distance like that? Def a good question though for sure
Great video Mike! Even though Goku says he could've beat him, based on how Buu was written to seemingly come back from anything and without even losing any stamina, I don't think so. Other than the spirit bomb or maybe the Mafuba, it didn't seem like anything could really stop him regardless if later forms are stronger.
Well done Mike excellent analyzing. The point is- Kakarrot didn't fight to win he fought to delay and we should all remember that. Kakarrot would have destroyed Good Boo (fat is an insulting title) if he really wanted to. Personally I don't like how SSJ3 looks like but it's powerful non the less. Could you please make a video about the real Japanese anime characters names? I think we should all use the real names, although some I don't like (especially Bejita-Vegeta sounds much better) and one name change I actually do like (Chaozu-Chiaotzu).
these videos are tres interresante and them thumbnails are awesome
Goku not knowing the full power and complete capabilities of Majin Buu, reminds me of a fan made TH-cam short -- that I watched, yesterday-- that had Goku travel to a different dimension, and encountered beings with techniques and power scales that he needed to adjust to on the fly, just to compete with.
I like the concept of Goku losing to fat buu because it makes a better story when the characters are not always right when they say how strong they are
I'm pretty sure fat Buu would win this one. Buu will tank all of Goku's attacks until he tires out. SSJ3 puts a lot of strain on Goku's body and he cant maintain the form for a long period of time. Buu will simply regenerate until Goku is out of stamina. There's a reason why Buu was not included in the tournament of power, his stamina and regeneration abilities are broken af. He would have carried most of the fights.
I would recommend you watch the fight again. Clearly Buu CAN be defeated by a strong enough Ki attack.
That entire fight Goku is absolutely dominating Buu. Buu almost can't even hit him, largely only doing so with his weird body catching goku by surprise. Even then nothing Buu does even leaves a scratch on Goku. Goku doesn't sweat, doesn't pant, no sign of fatigue at all. He is in his spirit body which apparently alleviates the fatigue issue for SSJ3 anyways.
The main issue is that the transformation limited Goku's time, and he spends the entire fight more stressed about Trunks getting the lead out. Goku mostly spends the fight using physical attacks (presumably to save energy) which obviously won't affect Buu, and a few really quick snap Ki attacks.
It really feels like Goku is several times stronger than Buu and is just using the form to buy time because he wants the kids to be equipped to protect the earth without him.
@@messiah2203 If Goku's physical attacks are useless, then he would have to use a ki attack to kill Buu. We saw Buu being able to regenerate from almost nothing. So his strongest Ki attacks would be also useless, since Buu would just come back like nothing happened, leaving Goku weaker because he wasted all his energy. I'm not sure how Goku would be able to kill Buu at this point.
@gernou92 I definitely agree that physical attacks are useless. I'm of the impression he wasn't using his strongest ki attacks either.
Through the entire fight, he's mentally keeping tabs on trunks and even shouts to him to get moving. His internal monologue also reveals his goal is to buy time.
We know SSJ2 Goku us useless against Buu because he's on par with Vegeta, and Vegeta got wrecked. So he's forced to use SSJ3 if he's going to pull this off.
King Kai freaks out because, apparently, the more energy he puts out, the faster it burns through his time.
My takeaway is that he could have dumped all that energy into a single powerful Kamehameha, and it probably would have worked, but he'd be taken away. This would leave the earth defenseless. Vegeta is dead, Gohan isn't mystic, and the boys can't fuse. Furthermore, if any piece of buu escapes destruction, no one would be strong enough to stop him. So instead of using the form to destroy buu, he uses the form to safely slow buu down.
I think given how Buu is completely incapable of scratching him and Goku doesn't even break a sweat it's very clearly he's several times stronger than buu, way more powerful than necessary to get the job done but doing so would ruin his goals of leaving a legacy behind when he's on a timer.
@@gernou92The problem is that vegetas self destruction attack put out more destructive power then what Goku is able display in ssj3 without completely wearing him out.
Goku only survived because he BAITED Kid Buu into a fun fight and then used attacks that could destroy him but never landed to set him up for a massive attack.
All of which failed but endlessly entertained kid Buu. A kid Buu I might add who was at no point using his full power.
Think I'm kidding?
He beat fat Buu, who is as strong as he was when he was first introduced, like a pinata.
The fat Buu who tanked and fought ssj3 gokus best attacks and could have murked him.
the only thing fat Buu could do to kid buu was make him momentarily tired from kicking his ass.
If Goku had taken all his fights seriously, then he would've beaten Buu.
Correction, if Goku fought seriously it’s probably wouldn’t have made it to the Buu Arc 😂😂
I'm only 10 mins into the vid so idk if Mike mentions this, but fat Buu clearly wasn't fighting very seriously either vs SS3. It wasn't a guarantee that Goku could waste him right then and there
I’m js in general, Goku always has to gauge his opponents level against his own. Down to the Cell saga
@@kj1578 Goku can never win.
Exactly & people seem to forget that Goku was doing a lot of non stop fighting through our the Buu arc so Goku was exhausted. If Goku wasn't exhausted then he could easily beat Fat Buu
18:13 I thought you were talking about Goku being shocked about Gohan, Guess he was talking about Gotenks I guess?
It's obvious, isn't it? Goku would fire a finisher Kamehameha and it would destroy 99.999% of Buu's body. But then his time would run out and he'd be send to otherworld. However it might give them another day of training if the damage is sufficient enough to drop Buu's ki for that long.
Thank you for making this video! You’ve been making every video I’ve suggested so I really appreciate you taking the time to make these & all the other awesome content you’ve been making these days. Keep up the awesome work man! You’re killing it! Another one I just thought of (which you’re probably gonna be all about lol) is Gohan Vs Tagoma. Frieza butted in the middle of the fight & even though it did seem like maybe Gohan was getting the upper hand there for a minute, he was so out of shape he most likely wouldn’t have been able to fight at that level for long. The dude almost died just powering up to tell Goku to get his ass back to the planet & save it for the 11th time. Plus it was Vegeta & not Gohan who took him out, & I feel like Tagoma/Ginyu was about to turn that fight around on him.
Goku felt like he could have killed fat buu he said it. But he didn't do a full power kamehameha bc he wanted the kids to kill him. He only gave an average kamehameha when he punched a hole thru fat buu's belly. All you have to do is completely destroy his body at once to kill him. Not splatter him everywhere with an attack like the ghost kamikaze.
Im not sure if it's intentional but it may be.
I love the setup for your vids and the fact you can link them all to your other vids involving the scenario your talking about, to reduce going over the same things or if it peaks someone's interest who doesn't know your work. Leaving no stone unturned and giving everyone what they want.
It's like you touch all the elements and nuances surrounding a situation with other videos then follow up those videos with something that puts it all together. It's very clever
Thanks. I appreciate it.
I would love to see a video on if goku got a zenkai boost from returning to life. Honestly I just assumed he did, just cause it's a easy excuse for a power up lol
you look good man, lookin like u been losin some weight, good job.
Goku was like I gave the audience super saiyan 3 I don't need to defeat every villian for you two
I'm gonna say this again and I'll keep it simple. Goku did not have enough power to defeat Fat Buu. Every attack Goku launched, Buu just copied it and sent it back. Goku blitzed Buu. Buu blitzed Goku. Goku fired a kamehameha. Buu fired back. The one time Goku landed a solid kick, he nearly died. Buu was having the time of his life and Goku was screaming. Goku was holding back, but so was Buu. The difference is that after 5 minutes, Goku was exhausted, while Buu was fine. There was no technique in Goku's arsenal capable of putting Buu down.
to kill fat buu he would have to use a full power ssj3 Kamehameha if it fails he gets immediately sent to the other world for burning his time on earth.
I agree whit everything said on the video, it was my understanding of it when i was 11 and it still is, for me it just takes basic text comprehension to reach those conclusions.
Another thing to point out is that Majin Buu isn’t just a martial artist, naturally powerful alien or an android; he’s literally magic, so the nature of his power and his limits are harder to nail down than other characters in Dragon Ball
Incredible video as always man! Thanks for all your hardwork 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉😊😊😊😊😊
Nice video my friend
I think he could've beat Fat Buu if he was still dead and at the beginning of his time on Earth, but SSJ3 uses so much power that he wouldn't have had a chance to by the time Buu showed up after fighting Vegeta in SSJ2 and going through the entire day of the tournament/fighting through Babidi's ship
Buu had the most OP regeneration in the original DB manga. He could even come back from ashes, smoke or being atomized. He can come back from a single molecule, maybe even a quark. That is far smaller than a Cell, which is Cell’s lv of regeneration.
Buu’s rubber body is also a perfect counter to martial artists or melee attackers (like Luffy). Gohan even said “What is he? His skin absorbs all the blows I give him!”
As Vegito showed, the way to beat Buu is to be far stronger than him and force him to exert more and more Ki, as at one point, Vegito pounded him so hard, Buu failed to notice a hole in his stomach after regenerating.
Being at his level or slightly stronger wont work in your favor. His anatomy is too unique.
Buu is near immortal basically.
Video suggestion: Which ki attack has the highest multiplier
Its the kikoho/ki blast cannon (tribeam)
@@djspit8929the tri beam is the old version. The neo tri beam is the stronger one used against cell
I know that Goku' SSJ3 transformation is the most epic here in the series.
I have a what if of my own. What if Goku and Vegeta agreed with Fat Boo to get absorbed on purpose and if they beat Kid Buu, he spits them out.
You're the ONLY guy on TH-cam that acknowledges Fat Buu would beat Goku.
Every child on Earth watching that Dub live
That
"And this"........ "whats he doing?"....."is to go...even further.... beyond..... ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh"
My inner child triggers Like Gohan losing control hitting SS2 everytime i hear that line
😂😂😂
Hit him with that dragon fist end of discussion
this is how you power scale-- using the narrative and feats and logic. not "data" books and what the mangaka said (when they FORGET and EVEN SAY THEY FORGET) disregarding what the characters say/do..
Love your content! And im on Goku's side!🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉
i think Super Saiyan 3 is stronger then Majin Buu but Goku's Super Saiyan 3 stamina would wear out way before he could kill Buu
Love these videos
Only way Goku could've won is if he pulled out that move he used against Fat Janemba in SSJ 3. Jk jk, another great upload 💪🏽💪🏽
The real plothole was that Goku could have just teleported to Capsule Corp and gotten the Dragon radar himself. Would have saved a lot of time and need I say ENERGY as well?
We have to take into consideration goku had just learnt ssj3 shortly before returning to earth. He likely didnt know the full extent of his max power at that point just an idea, this is why he says "he probably could have won" I've always viewed ssj3 and ultimate gohan as relative to eachother, i know somewhere it said they rival eachother power wise
Love the content bro
Buu. Goku doesn't have anything in his kit that would destroy Buu. Buu would keep coming back until Hoku just got tired, like against Kid Buu. And even if Goku used Spirit Bomb in SSJ3, that's external, so he'd need everyone to share their energy, which for multiple reasons wouldn't end up well for Goku
Loaf. The phrase is pinching a loaf 😅
Maybe Goku said he could have taken Buu down because Goku could sense Buu's true nature as an avatar, and so instinctually knew by destroying every atom, he could have severed Buu's connection to reality, or knew a spirit bomb could cause a feedback loop on the source of the avatar.
If he knew the dragon fist at this time I would say yeah
Can you do a video on how Frieza was able to sustain his time in the real world during the tournament of power when he was revived for a day? Frieza used a lot of power during the tournament and should’ve been teleported back to Other World.
The tournament was less than an hour wasn’t it?
@@austinmatney7591Yeah but when you use a lot of energy, your time drains. Frieza was literally wielding power comparable to the gods, so it had to drain his time drastically.
19:15 I don't understand how this happens. Do people read the manga with their eyes closed? It's right there on the page, there's not much wiggle room for interpretation, and still people want to argue that their favorite character is stronger than another character when the story says otherwise, even in this comment section this is happening
I know this is an old video from you but could a hypothetical buuko or a ssj3 goku absorbed by buu be able to beat gohan or no
Hey Mike, why do you think C16 was never been rebuilt, maybe by Bulma in a new better version?
This is basically the conclusion I came to. This was a Goku that was far less familiar with Buu's regeneration abilities, and even when he fought Kid Buu later, he still underestimated how much regeneration Buu had.
So while SSJ3 Goku was most likely stronger than Fat Buu, it wasn't by anywhere near enough to actually destroy him past his regeneration. The only way he could win is if he had no time limit at all, and could continue fighting in spirit form until winning. And even then, it's unclear whether he could do it before he ran out of energy.
goku with high difficulty, (I forgot about super buu coming back from smoke)
he'd really have to go nuts with his kamehameha and ensure it's wide enough to engulf buu completely and then some.
5:00 *Vegeta's Technique* ™️
If Goku could fight the entirety in SSJ3 I think he would come out on top, albeit slightly
I am of the opinion that Goku was more powerful than Buu at that moment, but not enough to actually kill Buu outright. Especially with how draining SS3 is. Whether he was alive or dead in that moment didn't matter. He wasn't going to win, because either way, he was on a time limit. It's a good thing he was already dead though, or he probably wouldn't have done as he did - giving Buu something to look forward to - and thus would have died, or worse, been absorbed.
Technically, energy can be measured in ounces.
An ounce can be a unit of mass, a division of the mass-pound.
Energy is equivalent to mass through e=mc².
A lot of energy has a very small mass. But maybe ounces would be an efficient way to measure the output of a Kamehameha.
@Laughingstock Media Maybe we should call FAT Buu.... GRAND SUPREME BUU now.... He needs a lil love.... I also have a theory.... Angel Goku, Destroyer Vegeta, supreme Kai Gohan, and Grand Supreme MAJUUB.... What do you guys think?
Whoever claims SS3 Goku is on Buutenks level is clearly smoking something good or is a SS3 Goku fanboy. In the anime, Buutenks didn't even try and dominated SS3 Goku. Goku was only able to land a ki attack on him because he was focused on preventing Gohan from getting the potara. Not to mention, in the manga, Ultimate Gohan can't even touch Buutenks so to imply that Goku is that far beyond Gohan is completely ludicrous. In the manga, it's implied a couple of times how Goku is weaker than Super Buu, which is covered by LaughingStock. So, I don't know what people are watching but it must be fan made. If Goku was on the level of Buutenks, what would be the point of him trying to fuse with Gohan during the fight? People really need to use their brains, read the manga, and stop watching an incorrect dub of the show that makes up dialogue.
Okay, I'm confused when Gotenks and Piccolo were zapping the Buu pieces, and then Buu's smoke regenerated, and they said they should've used chi blasts...is that not what they were doing?
1. Honestly Fat Buu is most likely as strong as Super Buu. There is no reas either one should be weaker as both are the result of the fusion betwen Kid Buu and a Kai. Successful fusion ALWAYS makes the resulting being stronger. The only difference between Super Buu and Fat Buu was Mindset. Fat Buu wasn't even trying against DEAD Lv3 Goku while Kid Buu was definitely weaker than Goku as he "killed " kid buu many times before losing stamina
2. Its not an asspull that Buu can hurt Buu himself it makes perfect sense. Both are immune to Ki and Physical attcks but they are pure demon energy. The Spirit Bomb being the only thing in Goku's arsenal that can kill Buu shows that it takes either Demon, God Ki, or Life Force (Genki) energy to take out Buu
Hell maybe magic can do it but Ki and Hands certainly can't. Another reason why DBS Rretcons are trash because Ultimate Gohan was quite literally THE FIRST SAIYAN GOD.
Maybe we should think of this Goku in this form as Cell arc's Super Vegeta form; it's good and usable, but further mastery comes later from others and it's not gonna be what finishes the fight
You should do who would’ve won between 17 and Piccolo
What about if goku and buu had to fight in a TOP style fight where the winner knocks the other off the platform?
Buu. The difference in power isn't big enough to make up for how invincible he is, not with the time/stamina limit.
I don't really think that's true. Buu is only really able to even hit Goku by surprising him, and even then he does absolutely no damage. Goku wasn't breaking a sweat or breathing heavy by the end of the fight. He was in completely and total control the entire time.
During the entire fight his attention was more on Trunks and it was pretty clear he was just biding time and trying not to burn too much energy.
Clearly Goku wasn't gonna get it done by punching him, but it's very obvious he was overwhelmingly more powerful than Fat Buu and had the capacity to do it if you watch the fight.
If SSJ3 Goku couldn't do it, then frankly Fat Buu is just literally unkillable and entire world is doomed and nothing anybody could have done would have stopped him and that's just not true.
9:50 I think Goku tells Buu that someone more powerful than him will fight him just to calm him down. Furthermore, Goku didn't tell anyone at that moment that he was actually more powerful than he had shown up to that point, so I don't think Goku really thought that Gotenks SSJ1 would necessarily be more powerful than him.
to be honest aside from the couple instances where the good guys get the higher ground on buu, he is pretty much destroying them the entire arc. everyone that was firmly stronger than buu got absorbed intentionally or unintentionally and didnt end him at the end of the day. it shows how fierce of a monster buu was in that saga. he was successfully pushing back the spirit bomb until deus ex dragon balls came in the clutch and fully restored gokus powers.
my point being there wasn't anyone aside from maybe an on guard gohan that could have truly defeated buu. not by themselves.
At best full power at the start could have weakened Buu to where Gotanks finishes the job. Would be a decent ending where the fathers do what must be done so their kids live. Some technique to prevent regeneration or something which is unlikely. Or have Hercule finish him off LOL!
25:00 Now your argument doesn't make sense, because now you rely on "potentially" for your proof? There is no reason to think that Fat Buu is weaker in a fight against Kid Buu than in a fight against Goku, but here we are only shown the difference between Kid Buu and Fat Buu, and that fat buu doesn't have infinite stamina, and that he can be defeated. I really don't understand how you put weight on Goku's speculation that the fusion between Goten and Trunks will have enough power to beat Buu, and you invalidate Goku's statement that he could have beaten Fat Buu, you can't belittle characters statements only when they don't suit you. Goku could have definitely win against Fat Buu if he unleashed his full power in his attack where Fat Buu would be completely obliterated by the attack like when spirit bomb obliterated Kid Buu, and the moment Goku was done he would be transported to the afterlife immediately with no chance of saying goodbye to everyone.
The spirit bomb kind of reminds me of sage chakra from Naruto. In one of your other video Mike you called it I think spirit ki? Anyway what I’m getting at is maybe Buu could only be killed by that certain type of ki or perhaps from the ki of another Buu. He is a mystical being after all so it would make sense he has a different type of ki
No.
He has ki, that's what he used to fight everyone.
He's also an insane evil god child who has real deal magic powers.
Literally the only thing Goku and the rest at the time had that could stop him was genki dama.
A holy magic attack made of life energy.
@@incognit01233 that’s what i was trying to get at but perhaps worded it poorly. The Genki dama was always the only thing that could destroy Buu.
Not sure if I’m remembering wrong but I think before Gohan and them die Goku is banking off gotenks and Gohan to get it done
i have a theory and i'll write it vefore watching the video: I think the original fat boo (before the split) has the same power level that super boo, but his power level was hidden behind his calm personality. Like Gohan as a kid/teenager. After the split and the evil side eating the good side, super boo just unlocks the full potential that he *already* has, i think that's pretty easy to assume watching/reading the boo saga. How can Fat + Gray Boo split and merge and become stronger? that power was inside boo all along, ok, no big deal. But then my theory of *how* the original Fat Boo can reach his full potential: When he get angry, he can use all of his power, basically when he gets mad and starts smoking all along.. that's when he's using his full power and we don't see he using that power against ssj3 goku. He used it against vegeta and easily overwhelms him, goku doesn't know boo full potential.. vegeta AND gohan thought he wasn't so powerful before watching him get mad, ok, goku could make some predictions about his power level but why would he be correct? he could be wrong. For me, fat boo using his full power could overwhelm ssj3 goku. Doesn't make sense to me that fat boo using his full potential could be weaker than kid boo. Also, i do think kid boo could beat super saiyan 3 goku even if he got more stamina. Kid boo never got serious in the fight, i don't like to assume that the characters are right about their power levels all the time. A lot of times in the franchise we see the protagonists assuming that their power can beat someone and in fact they can't. Well thats my interpretation of the situation on buu saga.
I don’t trust SSJ3 Goku to handle business, but he’d take care of Buu.
I think Goku was right in his assessment of Buu’s power compared to his own. However, an enemy like Majin Buu could only be destroyed with an utterly overwhelming blast of energy, hence why the Genkidama was the only option that could close out the fight. As it stood, SSJ3 Goku had the upper hand, but not enough raw output (or the time, for that matter) to completely disintegrate Fat Buu
As Goku said himself, Super Saiyan 3 is powerful, but it chugs energy, and to the point where he could not maintain or recover it when he really needed it against Kid Buu. I believe that similar would occur against Fat Buu, because during the fight in which he DID use that transformation, I didn't see him actually do much to Buu in the first place. I think because *none of this stuff* has ever really delivered permanent harm to Majin Buu, Buu would still win that fight. Or, worse yet, he shoots out Evil Buu, Evil Buu eats Fat Buu, and then Super Buu kicks Goku around the planet. It was the Spirit Bomb that actually killed Majin Buu. Without thinking about it and using its evil-destroying properties, Goku would never have won on his own.
Hey Mike
Hey, thanks for always showing up and commenting early on my videos. I appreciate it.
@@LSMMIKE Thanks for making great Dragon Ball content
Awesome And Accurate the video. Here is Trivia..According Dragon ball gt jjournal 43 and Dragonball El Manga Legendario Super Saiyan Grade 3 and Grade 4 is x500 Times Base Power Level. SS2 is x2 Times Stronger then SS Grade 4 and SS3 is x8 Times Stronger then Grade 4.
Therefore SS3 is 80 Times Stronger SS Grade 1/Intial Level.
Now that I think about it... considering time/energy affect 24H time allow in the mortal world.
Is there an official explanation why Frieza got more a time despite using more energy in the "tournament of power"...?
🤔 Goku implied to piccolo at the lookout that he could of beaten Buu if he went all out
He went all out against kid Buu who tanked everything copied it and threw it back.
I think Goku COULD have done it if he went all out and he was actually trying to kill him but the issues is he never fights like that so it wouldn’t happen
I see the inital Fat Buu, Kid Buu, and Super Buu all in the same ballpark of power. Fat Buu i believe being tye weakest marginally.
That said Fat Buu is much more docile then Kid Buu, so i think SS3 Goku would overpower Fat Buu and create an opening to vaporize him.
Buuiccolo 🤣😂 never heard that before
Kid Buu was able to actually knock out and threaten a weakened Fat Buu, implicating to me that a higher ki pool, and low enough ki on part of the Majin opponent can defeat the Buu in question. I think Goku could have tried a battle of attrition in SSJ2, and then attempt to wipe him out with a truly massive attack in SSJ3.
I see a lot of ppl still confused on this one but i really think no matter what regardless to what goku later says he was wrong goku could not beat fat buu his regen was too op for him & goku putting out that much energy in that form was burning him out faster than he could get the dub not even mentioning his limit on earth while being dead and no i also dont think he would be qble to beat him if he was alive either
I don't agree for a few reasons:
1. Goku wasn't even remotely tired during the fight. No scuffs, no panting, no sweat. He was in complete and total control the entire fight, likely several times stronger than Buu. His stamina wasn't even remotely an issue. It's pretty clear the time limit and his desire to pass on the fusion technique was the only limit.
2. Buu CAN be vaporized. If Buu was truly that invincible, then nothing anybody did mattered. SSJ3 Gotenks, Mystic Gohan, nothing. Buu CAN be defeated, it just requires enough overwhelming power and Goku was clearly capable of it.
I think if Goku was willing to burn all his energy in a single glorious kamehameha he'd have utterly atomized Buu. Doing so would result in leaving the world defenseless (mystic gohan isn't a thing yet, and no gotenks, vegeta is dead), and if he missed and left a little puff of buu around somewhere then NO one could stop him.
So I have a theory this fight if Goku went all out wouldn't end on Earth it would have ended on the Supreme Kai's planet much like it did against Kid Buu, or at the very least the other world planet. Because as the fight would gave gone on longer Goku would have seen the depths of Buu's regeneration which Goku would have realized was greater than Cell's. So as Goku's timer is ticking down Goku would have come to two conclusions is that that he does enough power to take out Majin Buu he just needs to do it in Other World as a dead man where stamina doesn't factor in. Also Goku would have chosen this because he would have realized Trunks, Goten, and Gohan don't have the ability to beat an opponent like this. So Goku's timer would have run out his halo would have returned and as Baba returns Goku asks if Buu would want to continue their fight Buu of course would have said yes. Now Baba wouldn't want to take Buu with them but Goku would have insisted Baba take both of them which Baba would do reluctantly given she trusts Goku. Once in Other World the fight would resume and Goku's stamina wouldn't be an issue and ultimately Goku would have used the Spirit Bomb to take out Majin Buu only this time he's taking it from the greatest fighters in the universe of all time. So the end result would be the same against Majin Buu as it was against Kid Buu. Because I don't agree with that we don't see the depths of Majin Buu's power I think we do and Majin is roughly on par with a Super Sayian 2 because this version is the weakest out of his forms it's simply his regeneration is just so OP you don't realize because he is Cell and the Andriods combine, his power doesn't decrease and he can regenerate. Vegeta realized this in his fight hence why he used the Final Explosion which he only uses as a last ditch effort like on earth during the Sayian Saga. But while Goku may have to cheat I think Goku would have chosen this root learning from his mistake during the Cell fight that while his kids might have the power to defeat higher level villains do they have the experience and will to do it.