I always smirk when I see the HYDRA salute, because I remember Superhero texts where Agent Coulson was able take out an entire room of HYDRA agents. "I walked in, yelled 'Hail HYDRA', and I mowed them all down when they dropped their guns to do their stupid salute."
Remember the crossover where Joker stated "I'm a murderous criminal, but I'm an AMERICAN murderous criminal!" ? And he shot the Red Skull. Good times...
Anyone remember the Memes with various other Superheroes standing in the same Pose as Cap when he says "Hail Hydra." and saying stuff that totally goes against who they are and/or betrays their Characters? Like Batman saying: "I killed my Parents." or Daredevil saying: "I was never blind."? Well, I think Linkaras Version of this would be him holding a Copy of "Holy Terror" and proclaiming: "This is the greatest Comic ever made."
Sonic: Long live the eggman empire. Deadpool: I hate chimichangas. Spiderman: Fuck responsibility. Red Hood: Killing is wrong. Pearl: I have a crush on Greg. Yuno Gasai: Fuck Yuuki. Superman: Save yourself.
Secret Empire can really best be summed up by an issue of Squirrel Girl. She gets a social media notification from Spiderman saying "ZOMG Squirrel Girl! Captain America is a Hydra member! There's going to be hero on hero fights and we must see who will rise or who will fall! Join our team and we can defeat them!". She responds by saying she's really busy trying to save dinosaurs in the Antarctic using computer science and everything will probably go back to normal with some minor changes here or there on their own and if not she'll just beat up Hydra Cap after she's done. Man typing that out made me realize that 90% of Marvel event comics could be solved if Squirrel Girl was on the scene.
God bless Squirrel Girl, she’s the hero we all need. “Maybe it’s just me... but I’m not crazy about super hero stories where everything’s all dark and moody. Personally, I like the ones where good guys fight giant apes on the moon and stuff. Remember those?”
"If it walks like a Duck, Quacks like a Duck and "Sig Hails" like a fricking Nazi, It's a fricking Nazi!" Best. line. EVER. Also reminds me of that one short where Donald Duck was a Nazi.
I always loved the Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. season premiere that happened while some people at Marvel were flogging the "Hydra aren't Nazis" line. Agent Coulson is a schoolteacher in a Hydra-controlled alternate world, and he makes it *very* clear that Hydra are Nazis.
I just started binged agents of shield and Skye says to ward something to the effect of “why would I fall in love with a nazi? You’re part of Hydra, whose founder, the Red Skull, was a giant Nazi!”
@@CaptainEnglehornAhh Agents of Shield, only finished season one, so I need to get back into that show. But I love that season, love Skye and how she yelled at Ward for being a Hydra member. Twas a good time
i think the big issue with cap being stated as a nazi is what the writer said. "no no guys, this is the canon 616 cap who you have been rooting for. this is the captain whose debut issue is him punching hitler in the face. and he's been a nazi all along. this isn't some alternate reality clone, or someone pretending to be cap, this is what cap was all along." that was probably meant to hype the story, but still. way to piss on the cap.
That indeed was one of the big issues and Linkara covered it. In particular it frustrated EVERYONE. For those who didn't like the idea of Cap being a Nazi to begin with it was a stupid idea because... come on and as for those who didn't really care and were jaded anyway about the comic industry? They were pissed because Marvel continuously pulls out of a hat these massive Earth-shattering revelations that almost IMMEDIATELY get undone and are outed as obvious publicity stunts.
You would think having a LITERAL MULTIVERSE OF ENDLESS POSSIBILITIES they might just go with the “oh, this is actually an alternate version of Cap that’s a nazi in his universe, and came here and took the old, good Cap’s place and worked as an undercover Hydra agent for awhile
@@ianbyrne465 But if they did that, it wouldn't be controversial and go viral! If they didn't pretend that Captain America was a traitor the whole time, would anyone like a story where Nazi America gets beaten down by Real America? Spoiler alert, yes, we would love to have several stories of nazis and wannabe dictators getting punched.
I'm sorry but he meant by that so that people wouldn't immediately call out using the cosmic cube to undo everything (which was ultimately done). Also anybody that wasnt up n arms after the first issue of an ONGOING series and that bothered to read the next issue knows that Red Skull used the cosmic cube to change Cap's past.
Jeffery Phillips even better because Chris Evans was on the bandwagon hating hydra cap when he looked at that #1 issue of captain America: Steve rogers
This pretty much exposes a REALLY big gripe I have about Marvel Comics: they have this thing for introducing event storylines NOT as event storylines, but rather as the new status quo. "Hey, kids! We're taking this thing you love, and turning it into something you hate! And this is how it's going to be from now on! Give us money!" As far as I remember, this goes back to Age of Apocalypse, when Marvel announced it not as a new storyline, but rather, they were cancelling all the X-Men books, and launching new titles set in this grimdark world. Another example was Superior Spider-Man, when Dan Slott killed off Peter Parker and had Doctor Octopus take over Peter's body and operated as Spider-Man for a year and a half. And Slott wanted that change to be permanent; I remember he said in an interview that the only reason he changed it back was to make it coincide with the release of Amazing Spider-Man 2. I honestly think they market their stories this way because deep down, they're hoping fans will love the change of the new status quo; and they can go down in comic history as "the people who gave Marvel Comics the shake-up it sorely needed." Of course, with Secret Empire, it backfired horribly! This, to me, was a decent story, but it was marketed in the worst possible way, at the worst possible time.
And the worst part is that trash is spreading to DC writing now that they've hired all of their former writers, case in point aging up Clark and Lois son, making them slowly hate each other, HEROES IN TIME, The Gift, many more but those are off the top of my head. I miss stuff like Crisis on Infinite Earth, Death (and Return) of Superman, Knightfall, No Man's Land, stories where the villains were not other heroes, and the status quo change was always said to be temporary despite the pomp and circumstance of the event.
@@rebornkusabi7264 Funny thing about Knightfall, though... the higher ups at DC were fully prepared to have Jean-Paul Valley be Batman permanently if he proved popular enough. So, the Batman writers made him as unlikeable as possible, going so far as to have him try to kill Robin (Tim Drake) , and then have him kill a villain, and letting said villain's hostage die as a result. And, of course, the readers hated it, and the writers proved their point: Having superheroes (particularly Superman and Batman) act like The Punisher is a VERY bad idea.
And what's sad is I can think of only a few times these massive character shake-ups actually stuck for a couple decades. Psylocke changing from a demure Brit to a battle-loving ninja babe, Carol Danvers getting mind-wiped, and Tony becoming an alcoholic. Heck, the first two aren't even a thing anymore because the Internet deemed them problematic.
Best part of this miniseries. Also, good character work for MCU Cap, learning from his experiences and adapting to a new but familiar environment. You know, his major character arc.
Genuinely loved that. Really wished we got more references to comics like that. Not necessarily directly adapting a comic moment, but quoting or referencing a famous comic moment or meme.
Marvel want Hydra to be Nazis only sometimes. They're nazis when Red Skull is in charge and not nazis any other time. That... just doesn't track. Even when they're "not nazis" they're still fascists. You can't have it both ways and split hairs like that.
OkAwesome Well that somewhat makes sense since Red Skull’s backstory is that he’s an actual Nazi raised by Hitler, so I guess it would make sense that he has some Hydra minions who actually are Nazis. It generally depends on who is leading at the moment since some Hydra members were Nazis or had Nazi ties or weren’t Nazis at all, as is the case with the second Baron Zemo who outright abandoned the ideals of Nazism and I believe he’s a member of Hydra. So it’s somewhat complicated. Generally though Hydra is pretty much just a generic evil organization like Mad or Cobra, as their goals really only amount to “take over the world” and nothing else. So fascism is probably the best thing to put them under and the Nazis were fascists.
@@brandonlyon730 I can't say for sure as I'm only a casual comic reader, but under the Red Skull they were at least by proxy due to his explicit commitment to Nazi ideology.
But you wanna know the difference between this and JL Superman? JL Superman knows that he's the bad guy and won't hesitate to put down Lois Lane. Sharon's just being petty.
7:31 The Nazi fascination with Norse mythology even is mentioned in Captain America: The First Avenger. There's, it's explained that the reason why the Red Skull knew about the Tesseract, how it came to Earth, and what it was capable of was because he shared Hitler's fascination with pre-Christian Germanic beliefs, but instead of using it to reinforce the belief in German superiority, the Red Skull wished to harness its power for himself.
Ah, the storyline that, imo, did political commentary in Captain America more effectively. Heck, it made cap choosing the name "Nomad, the man without a counrty" impactful, imo.
"Listen here, Cap, computers may be twice as fast they were in 1975, but the average voter is as drunk and stupid as ever! The only one who's changed is me. I've become bitter and - let's face it - CRAZY over the years! And once I'm swept into office, I'll sell our children's organs to zoos for meat! And I'll go into people's houses at night and wreck up the place! MWAHAHAHAHA!!!"
doom hates nazis in general but during that point he went full superhero, the reason on why they never fought? maybe because it was bendis doing it and bendis only cares about himself while everyone else at marvel got tired of him and just ignore him......
@@slifer875 I mean I get that Bendis isn't too popular with his often disregard of continuity, but wasn't Infamous Doctor Doom critically well received? Heck even Superior Spider-man didn't get ignored while he was around despite being unpopular at first.
@@vanjagalovic3621 while it was well receive it everyone was already tired of bendis by 2016, also infamous iron man while good it shit the bed with the final issue, not to mention dan slott INMEDIATELY turn him back to clasic doom because "muh nostalgia"
@@slifer875 yeah. Bendis just decided "if i can't make victor von doom a hero, NOBODY CAN'T" and basically left doom in a position to go back to dr. doom persona. scarred face and all.
@@vanjagalovic3621 Yeah. i was scratching my head just wondering Why marvel wasted such a golden opportunity. We had Evil Captain America and Hero Victor Von Doom at the same moment in time..... and they completely banned victor from appearing AT ALL during secret empire. not even in tie-ins. or anything. At least Peter Parker/Spider-man (who would have been another perfect hero to have against stevil/HYDRA Cap. at least in a tie in. especially given both deadpool and superior octopus were part of the HYDRA Avengers) made a cameo in the final issues and had his tie in. Victor Von Doom didn't even appeared at all while the secret empire event happened if i remember correctly
@@Future_Vantas basically, when Atop the 4th Wall first started, there was a thing called the "Continuity Alarm" that pulled go off when too much backstory was given. Over time he stopped using that because his fans actually like it when he sums up past events for context.
Just a quick note, as a programmer, Vision speaking in binary really isn't that weird. Programming languages are really just for the benefit of the humans writing in them, they all get compiled down to binary for the computer to use. Admittedly, he's way more complex than code in the real world, but assuming computers are essentially the same, it's not an issue
Ternary Computers were/are a thing, and apparently more efficient than binary energy wise, it’s just that the latter became standard, and they’re not cross compatible
"It's Isaac freaking newton!" Me: Wait a second, I think I've *looks at the tattoos on his arm* God freaking dang it, the one time period I got into comics and this is the payoff
As someone who actually likes Secret Empire....you are right on the money on how badly Nick Spencer and Marvel handled the publicity for this thing... I will say this. Nick Spencer is not a bad writer. He’s done some great stuff for both Spider-Man and Ant Man but as Linkara likes to point out even good writers have their screw ups.
I enjoyed Secret Empire as well, despite it's flaws. That interview though I feel did indeed do more harm to the event than good. I understand not wanting to spoil your twist (even though it's kind of obvious that no one in their right mind would genuinely make Captain America into a Hydra agent so of course it's going to turn out to be a trick in the end), but still. If you want a really good Nick Spencer book, I highly recommend Superior Foes of Spider-Man. It is honestly my favourite comic of all time. Hands down.
@@mediabaron2416 The problem is that you can't assume that people are in their right mind anymore. "Nazis are bad" doesn't feel like a lesson that needed to be reinforced, but here we are.
@@roguishpaladin "Nazis are bad" is 100% a lesson that needs to be reinforced. Just look at the rampant white supremicism/nationalism/fascism of the Trump administration. People voted for him BECAUSE he reinforced Nazi ideas. The US 100% NEEDED a wakeup call. And with how hard right many self proclaimed "comics fans" are, a comic was a decent choice to point out how terrible the ideas are.
I think the second biggest mistake that the movies have done regarding the Captain America movies was how they decided to barely mention the Nazis by name in the first movie, and basically divested Hydra from the Nazis in order to make them seem cooler, I guess.
now it's true, Hydra didn't start out as Nazis, they were just a powerful cult, but they joined the Nazis in WW2, aborted many if not all their ideals, made Red Skull, right hand to Hitler himself in charge of Hydra, they became Nazis and are still Nazis to this day
I have a feeling they only said "this wasn't the real Cap" only because the event has been plummeting in reception so badly. If they thought they could get away with it, they'd happily just make this the real Cap.
I'm almost certain that was the case. Tom Brevoort, the editor for the series, explicitly stated, early on, that it was the real Cap. Not brainwashed, not an imposter, and not an alternate reality version, the real Steve Rogers.
@@RabblesTheBinx technically speaking he is correct. in a sense. is like saying how in legends of tomorrow at the end of season 2, the Doomworld universe is the normal universe. because it was reality warped by force. Or like how the DC Universe post-crisis is the de facto dc unvierse. because it got reality warped. however ti believe nick wouldn't be crazy enough to leave cap as nazi. at least not without a way to undo everything and have our cap come back considering his blatant intent to undo One More Day in current amazing spider-man books, i am sure he would have at least undo his own stuff and not be like joe quesada
As Linkara says in the third part, the series does gloss over the more negative aspects of fascism makes me wonder if they were deliberately trying for a misnamed fandom a'la American History X (popular with the type of people the villains in it are) I wouldn't be surprised if the second half was a way for the creative team to have plausible deniability for a dog-whistle. Disney lets it go as the nazis are the bad guys, but the bad guys are shown as being so good and may have a point to a less observant reader. Keep in mind that Pearlmutter is a big supporter of our current president who thinks supremacists are 'fine people' and will retweet their stuff. Also, Nick Spenser has backed some nasty racist politics IRL...
The basic conceit I'm getting from this review, is that "Secret Empire" was essentially a classic instance of writers not thinking about the implications of their own work, and not realizing that being "shocking" for the sake of being "shocking" isn't as appealing as some may think.
You know the scene between Sharron and Stevil at the dinner table really feels like it was trying to be that one scene in the DCAU of alternate totalitarian Superman having dinner with Lois
Honestly, events like House of M and Secret Empire really show how many people who hate comics and their characters are in the business writing comics.
Linkara....Issac Newton was an Alchemist in real life. There is a lot of historical revisionism around the founding thinkers of the scientific method due to the sheer volume of occult elements involved with them. Its far to say without things like the cults of Hermes Trismegistus (What the costume is clearly based on) we wouldn't have had the natural philosophies that lead to the modern scientific method.
Issac Newton wasn't the first physicist, he was the last alchemist. On a side note, I would totally love a modified version of this character (you know, without the Nazism) to become actual canon, not cosmic cube distorted canon.
@@AquaLantern It's basic ideas were wrong but much the practice laid the groundwork for modern chemistry and gave a sufficient mathematical background to develop Newtonian physics.
I mean, gunpowder was discovered by Chinese alchemists trying to create an elixir of life. But I guess we can say that Newton was living through a big transition period where religion/magic was being separated from science/philosophy. But I don't want to give Secret Empire that much credit for knowing a basic fact about Newton that can be found on Wikipedia.
"Oh boy! I'm writing my first event series! I hope it turns out as good as I-" "Hey, mandate from on high, they want you to have Nitro in the opening." "Aw crap."
@@mixwidman5458Yes. It would be like if in a tie-in. Darkwing Duck showed up. And they explained that after conquering this world. Hydra wants to take over other dimensions. So they made Drake's rogues gallery (Plus Magica & Flintheart Glomgold) into nazis (While showing a crimebot to indicate this is the Boom Studios comic continuity that's being used) and that Gossalyn got kidnapped.
I think it says something when Agents of SHIELD was doing their own "HYDRA takes over the world" plot at the same time, and handled it a lot better. They even had one of the heroes become a despicable monster working for them, but it worked because a) it established right away it wasn't the real world, b) the reasons he was working for HYDRA in that reality actually made sense, and c) he felt nothing but remorse once he got back to the real world and learned about what he had done.
Interestingly enough, portraying Newton as a magician and alchemist is entirely accurate. We know him today as a scientific genius, which, don't get me wrong, he absolutely was, but he also put a lot of work into researching magic, alchemy, and the occult - possibly more work than he put into his scientific studies. If you find you have time, read the _Rivers of London_ series, or at least the tie-in graphic novels. Isaac Newton as a magician is a very important figure in the backstory.
It really is fun seeing instances of renowned scientists from the past not really being removed from things like the occult, the mystic, or religion. Makes me wonder if those distinctions are moreso modern inventions
@@GurrenPrime It's always difficult to apply modern-day categories to ancient people. It's easy for us to say "Alchemy was obviously nonsense, so Newton was crazy to pursue it", but...to a great extent, the reason we know that alchemy is nonsense is _because_ people like Newton, John Dee, etc did investigate it, and eventually found it was nonsense. Newton's discoveries in science were part and parcel of his investigations into what we would call magic and alchemy.
4:53 As I recall they not only didn't tell us this but specifically went *out of their way* to deny it. The writers claimed that this wasn't mind control, nobody had altered his memories or anything, this is just Steve Rogers secretly being a Nazi. Which is bullcrap. 5:40 Oh there we go
Secretly a Nazi? They frickin retconned Steve to be a Nazi first, Axis beats Allies (NaziCap's help), Allies made retcon cube to change Steve from CaptainNazi to Captain America to do over the war and win this time and the writers are just gonna let all this go? No wonder we forgot about about that craptastic story.
Battlion 50 Yah because they basically say “Nazi’s where too strong so Allies had to basically cheat” but doesn’t make sense as who did this? If it was America then why not have all US troopers have a very low casualty rate and USSR basically join the US for Democracy, If USSR then have them basically take over the Entire European Continent have them be all pro-communist while making US weak.
K did you read Issue 2 of the series that revealed he was a Nazi? Cuz they show that Red Skull changed the past or his memories, its unclear which one, to make him a HYDRA agent.
What's worst was the fact that Mjolnir deemed Nazi Cap worthy but Thor was deemed unworthy because of something he had no control over. Yes I know the enchantment was changed but still that pissed me off.
If I recall correctly, what the Cosmic Cube changed about Steve Rogers' past was that his mother got approached by a Hydra agent before he was even born and indoctrinated her into the movement. So by that logic Cap's past was rewritten, so Captain America we knew ceased to exist. And the way it ends is all the more insulting to his character.
I remember when Secret Empire came out and hearing news that Captain America was with Hydra, my jaw dropped to the floor to the “What the Hell were you thinking Marvel!?”
You forgot to mention that in the first avenger the MCU movie for captain america debuting in the MCU it had Hydra be a research group for the Nazis before they defected to become their own thing. So yeah, even the MCU is saying they are Nazis.
Cap turning evil but still wanting to be a "nice guy" in this series reminds me so much of when Phoebe became the evil queen of the demons in Charmed, but still wanted to help her sisters save innocents and write her column. Or rather, it reminds me of Allison and Phelan's review of that episode, which is much more watchable.
As a Pagan, seeing the fact that _Marvel_ basically implied that Hydra Cap was powerful enough to pick up Mjolnir is yet another example of "The Nazis ruined pagan symbology".
I honestly think the Norse gods at least wouldn't sidevwith the Nazis. Mostly on a "these guys are boring, but they look like a fun fight" kinda way Except Odin. That nutterbutter would see them as yet another target of his "scam people out of their knowledge" addiction.
@@williamhumes7332 I actually had someone a while back on Twitter literally say I was a nazi for having runes on my name. When I called them out on it, they simply acted more confused how a friend of mine "found their post". People truly would rather not do research.
@@michaeliv284 Essentially, and yeah, Odin would simply see what knowledge they'd have. Although I'd imagine the Norse Gods wouldn't be amused at the Nazis essentially taking runes and some of their iconography and bastardizing them.
If I recall correctly, in one of the tie in issues had Magneto as a member of Hydra, the *HOLOCAUST SURVIVOR* was made into a Nazi! Just to make things even more offensive!
Are we sure Magneto didn't get brainwashed? Because the master of magnetism feels like a villain who would adamantly oppose Hydra Cap. Who else became a nazi: General Ross (He may have been onboard until they temporarily revived Bruce Banner) Meek (Saying that reviving Banner & having the man confess that he's lost all trust & respect for the others while hydracap says this is the closest he can get to making him into the world breaker again), Kingpin, A somehow revived Heroic Green Goblin (Again. They already brought back Bruce Banner. Why not resurrect Phil & give him a stolen bit of goblin serum)
I'm thankful at least that Wanda working for Stevil was because of demonic mind controlling and not her being a willing Villain in this. The Nazis heavily oppressed Romani.
So...Is everything all a fever dream? Is the classic Captain America still existent or non-existent? "It just raises too many questions." - Val Kilmer Batman
All they had to do with the Hydra Cap thing was to do what DC did with the Death and Return of Superman, publicly talk about how this was a temporary status quo change, that this wasn't the real Steve and that the real Steve Rodgers would return "sometime in the future", be vague to avoid spoiling the book they wanted to make, but also just get out ahead of the controversy. Make it VERY CLEAR that they had a grand plan for this reveal and not that they were turning Cap into a Nazi. Instead (In the understandable desire to keep the story un-spoiled) they decided to just string the readership along with Nazi Captain America for over a year. It was also kinda bone-headed to do the Hydra Cap reveal RIGHT AFTER CAPTAIN AMERICA: CIVIL WAR! Marvel sometimes needs to get their comics division and movie division in a room together to make sure that major launches of books and major story beats that they want to do won't be happening with characters that are about to get huge movies that will drive viewers to maybe check out the comics. Hydra Cap was memed so hard because the first issue of that solo book came out right after the Civil War Movie, which gave it a ton more publicity because you had this huge blockbuster with Captain America that was so damn good, at the same time the new comic for Steve had him revealed as a Nazi!
@@gyga100 Eh, even as a publicity stunt, once they saw the controversy, they should have just come out ahead and said "hey, we are working on a story over the next year" instead of playing coy and trying to pretend this is permanent. Death of Superman and Civil War's changes were massive, but there wasn't a major backlash that made NATIONAL HEADLINES
Additionally, someone should've reigned in Spencer on twitter. He really made shit worse by intentionally choosing to antagonize fans, doing things like posting photoshopped images of Chris Evan's Cap in a Hydra outfit, and saying "What's not to love?".
Again, Marvel should have looked at the headlines after Hydra Cap was first revealed, seen how much controversy was being generated (especially how much of it was saying that Marvel was disrespecting the legacy of Cap's creators) and tried to do some damage control instead of playing coy.
@@toqkaizogou1636 Absolutely, im all for creators standing up for their right to tell whatever story they want, but Spencer ignored very legitimate criticism of Hydra Cap and Secret Empire.
Good lord this comic.... I remember when the news came out of Cap being member of Hydra. I thought he was a clone, an imposter, mind control, Skrull, or if this was a What IF Story. But yeah, if you make Captain America a Nazi, or say anything terrible, ignorant or stupid about him and what he represents (I'm looking at you CBR and Caleb Clark) be prepared to be attacked by us fans who love him. To me Captain America represents everything America can be and should be, if they put their brains and heart into it. "They can be great people Kal-El, they wish to be.They only lack the light to show the way."
Honestly the attacks is where I feel people REALLY overstepped boundaries. I mean criticize certainly the work for being absolutely ridiculous but when you start taking shots at people, your point gets lost and at this point the person is just an asshole.
Saying Hydra are not nazi's is like saying Cobra isn't a snake themed terrorist organization. It only works if you completely rewrite the organization and what they are, and, at that point you just have some other organization wearing there hats. Marvels problem with Hydra is that they, Hydra, IS a nazi group. They were designed to be nazis because Jack Kirby thought that would be the most evil thing at the time (it's sad that they are STILL the most evil thing in the world today. Different leaders, names etc, still just as evil and bigoted.).
It's hard to make anything more overall objectively evil than the Nazis, COBRA tried to be Alt-Right HYDRA Yahtzees in UN blue Peacekeeper helmets (!?) but ultimately the snakes were made to look like teddy bears in comparison.
It is genuinely comforting that Linkara started this by explaining that it was a different Cap and earlier pointed out that people misunderstood details about the event.
Lol the fact that in her bedtime stories he refers to his group as terrorists. Wouldn't he try to make them look a little better than if he was tryin to convince her they were the good guys?
@@benwasserman8223 Makes sense. Not everyone reads the comics and they only know stuff because internet journalism gets super picky about what to show for clicks I guess
@@sigh824 It's what happens when a portion of the population wants to embrace certain ideals but doesn't want to be associated with the organization which has been condemned by history as evil for embracing those ideals. If you focus the idea of the evil into the name rather than the more complex behavior, then people just learn to hate the orange armbands instead of the evil idea of racial purity. It's the same with the term "racist" - no one wants to be called racist, but many people will embrace racist behavior and then disclaim that their behavior is not racist.
The biggest failing of this book was that it definitely empowered real world Nazis and alt-righters. I definitely saw above type of people call this book "based" in various comicbook spaces, like e.g. 4chan Comics and Cartoons board.
14:10 Remember people. Maria Hill is also responsible BIG TIME for a LOT of stuff that Stevil and HYDRA did in this event. After all, she created Pleasant Hill as a way to strip villians (and later she was planning on doing that to heroes too) from their identities. Without their permission. This backfired MASSIVELY when Red Skull used this to his advantage and was able to manipulate Kobik
The biggest problem I had with Secret Empire (aside from the fact that they turned Cap into a Nazi) is that the Kobik aspect seemed to be more retcon/editorial mandate due to the backlash than what was intended. Spencer's own comment aside, Tom Brevoort commented at the very beginning of the event that Stevil wasn't brainwashed, wasn't a shapeshifter or imposter, and _wasn't an alternate reality version_ of the character, he was the _real Steve Rogers._ Based on that comment, alone, it's clear that they had every intention of Hydra Cap being the genuine article and only changed it because people were so offended by the idea. So, no, I don't give Marvel a pass for it, even with cosmic cube shenanigans.
Me: “Holy shit Linkara’s going to talk about one of my favorite event comics! Can’t wait to start 40 seconds in “THIS IS A FRUSTRATING EVENT” Lol I’m glued to my screen
Ah yes Iron man's artificial intelligence copy of his brain after captain marvel put him in a coma because he didn't want to use the kid who could predict the future (via presented information, so they can't be 100% certain, as far as I know) to arrest people before they commit a crime Civil War II much like Civil war (original) made me hate the "antagonistic" side of the conflict by the end of it, seriously, I had no problem with Captain Marvel (yes, she was VERY different from how she was as Miss Marvel, to the point where I don't think Rouge would have become such a better person if the personality she "absorbed" had been Captain Marvel as she is now, but characters change and sometimes become darker, in Carol's case she became more militaristic) but that was BEFORE she decided to arrest people for the POSSIBILITY of committing a crime, and getting NO repercussion from putting Tony Stark in a COMA and basically killing him, since its been revealed that the 'current' Tony is just (seemingly) more of a clone (with MAYBE the AI as its base) than an actual resurrection with the original having DIED in the coma, the problem isn't that, but the fact that its NEVER been addressed with Carol present, I get a character changing but she KILLED a man and there was no consequence, that's not right
@@trevingrayek1671 Consequences are for people not named Carol Danvers seriously, marvel, just make her an actual full on villain, NOONE is buying her as a hero anymore
@@trevingrayek1671 Slightly yes but the Actress playing Monica Ranbeau was so much better that I kinda wish SHE had been made captain Marvel instead, like she was acting literal circles around Brie, and frankly I've seen Brie in other stuff where she wasn't directed well enough and OOF does it hurt, but I have to say that Captain Marvel is A LOT better in the MCU than she is in the comics which is sad since I think the best version of her is still Miss Marvel, but the company has been falling for so long that I don't think they can get back up again at this point
Well I would actually like to see Sir Isaac Newton as Sorcerer Supreme of the 18th century. In real life he was really into alchemy, ocultism and christian legends and treated those subjects as seriously as he treated the therory of light, motion and gravity. I would buy the idea of him as a Sorcerer Supreme.
Sir Isaac Newton: Pioneer of Magitech (the combination of Magic and technology properly working together) Now i have another concept i wanna use in my own superhero universe
Addendum: Just found out he was chief of the British treasure and oversaw coin production for a while so he had the means to fund a parallel super hero team
In relation to how Marvel pushes Hydra merch, have you ever noticed how much more prevalent the Empire and First Order are in Star Wars merchandise? Specifically how much harder they're pushed at customers than the heroes?
People do seem to have more of a fascination with villains than heroes, and there’s _usually_ enough of a disconnect to avoid getting too real, even with the Empire despite the Nazi imagery. But when the villains actually ARE literal Nazis… either they were absolutely braindead or there was some sussy business going on at Marvel the same way Hydra infiltrated SHIELD in Winter Soldier; I’ll put it like that.
17:44 I understand that it's generally pretty dumb when robots or computers "speak" in binary, but why would that mean he was programmed in binary? He's a computer from earth, so of course the underlying structure of him runs on ones and zeros.
I've been waiting for this one for a long, LONG time. The amount of pure rage this comic inspired in me was comparable to what One More Day did for you.
I feel like Lewis and Dr. Crafty missed a good chance to get a dig at CA by not having the titlecard be of Linkara in Cap's pose saying "Hail Channel Awesome", just saying. XD
So wait... Most of the normal events of the Marvel universe have still happened and within the entire period NO other avenger has ever seen him without a shirt? He's never had his armor torn? He's never changed in the HQ? HOW COULD THIS BE? This event is breaking me
What I remember thinking after issue zero is that there was an immense plot hole in the form of America Chavez. She's one of the super powerful heroes Evil Cap strands outside the shield in order to not have to deal with them. But, hold up, she can punch through into other dimensions, take other people with her, and she's Thor levels of powerful all by herself, so why doesn't she punch into another dimension outside the shield, punch back in on the other side, clean these Nazi losers clocks and have the whole thing wrapped up by the end of issue 1, max? Was that ever addressed? Am I misunderstanding her powers?
Yes, but with how things are going even without COVID and how falcon once stated the cubes can have monkey’s paw like after effects. I fear the cube would probably give everyone supercancer and really ugly skin infections.
Okay but we got a lot of hilarious variations from that meme. One of my favorites being "The Nu Gundam is just for show." while Amuro burns up in the atmosphere.
In defense of Vision speaking in binary, the closer you get to it the harder it is to program but if you do it right the better peeformance is. Which for an artificial inteligence would be pretty important. While it is crazy how much work it is to convert c++ or c# to c by hand, and then doing it to basic or binary, making the ai be in these IS better for it. Kinda doubt they thought of this though. I bet is was just "machine brain thinks in 0 and 1"
16:29 I think you made a mistake here Linkara. I’m pretty sure that’s Helmut Zemo, the second Baron Zemo, who is the son of the original Baron Zemo and from what I recall from research into his character he actually isn’t a Nazi as he abandoned the ideology a long time ago. You’re probably thinking about his father, Heinrich Zemo, the first Baron Zemo who actually was a Nazi. You might not know but he started out as a villain who wanted to avenge his father, worshipping his memory, and hated Cap because after the Adhesive X Incident Heinrich became abusive towards him, which he blamed Cap for, but after some time he comes to terms with the fact that Heinrich was just a terrible father and a even worse man. And this leads him to eventually disowning his father, his ancestry and the Nazi ideology and all associated prejudices, in fact he actually dated a Jewish woman once. In fact there’s actually a storyline where he takes a trip back in time in a moment where he ran into his father while the latter was doing mad science for the Nazis and since Helmut abandoned the ideology he was fuming watching his father out down other races, the handicapped, etc. He finally had enough and started beating the hell out of him while calling him out. It’s actually a pretty notable character arc. So no, he isn’t a Nazi, unlike his father. Now he does want to take over the world still but it’s not motivated out of any belief in Nazism but because he wants to make the world a better place to live in, which makes him a more complex character than his father ever was and this along with other reasons is largely why Helmut eventually outgrew his father in popularity and is recognized as *the* Baron Zemo, his father was basically a second-rate Red Skull (in fact he was created, to fill the role of Red Skull until Lee and Kirby just decided to bring him back), has no redeeming qualities and is just plain evil, his son is just a more charismatic and likable antagonist in comparison.
Can we get some more Batman: Odyssey? I love that crazy sh*t. Edit: The historical Newton was a _huge_ alchemy buff and wrote more about that than he wrote about what we would call "physics." He was also a religious weirdo who wrote copious amounts on the Revelation of St John, the Book of Daniel, and (in secret, because he would have been killed otherwise) how the Trinity was a lie.
Eryk Nakamura Plus in that dream he wasn’t even a soldier, just a rank and file civilian forced into working to support the regime. It annoys me when people bring up that short out of context.
I completely understand why "Secret Empire" struck such a nerve with so many people. This is not how you treat your fans, Marvel. Hell, this is not how you tackle such a controversial issue as the resurgence of rightwing extremists. Just... it's just bloody offensive.
especially when red skull went from openly preaching real nazi stuff to being pretty milquetoast in some losers basement saying um guys shouldnt we like give some more welfare to citizens before letting in a lot of refugees
@@donb7519 wait they said that, does that mean there saying your a Nazi if you want to help the person in trouble next to you first instead of the person also in trouble across the ocean? WTF
While I love Nick Spencer current run on Spiderman to be amazing and appreciate him undoing a lot of things that I didn't like from Slott run, this whole idea of Captain America being a nazi and such was VERY stupid. Edit: Okay, so it wasn't the actual Captain America but its still dumb for the reason Linkara stated.
@@pedanticat9479 I disagree with Linkara. American exceptionalism, and us viewing ourselves as the hero In all aspects all the time NEEDS to be challenged. While challenging that view by using a character that represents what people see as American heroism, an >6 foot tall blonde man, and revealing that in an alternative reality the America he believes in is a horrifying fascist state works so well in making people that deny America's problems upset and uncomfortable. When this story makes you frustrated, it's supposed to.
I wouldn't have been as mad at this event of Marvel had been upfront about Hydra-Cap from the start. Instead of saying "this is totally the real Cap doing this, no really" they should have said "don't worry, the real Cap will be back at the end of this story arc."
I think that’s kind of the point of the story though. The beginning of the story could be read as nazi Steve is true Steve, only for the end to show how all of that was built on deceit and evil, showing just how wrong the ideology is.
I mean, having Cap be a Nazi is still a stupid idea, but I find that to be a strange objection. Did anyone really think the real Cap *wouldn't* be back at the end of the story arc? Did anyone really think it was the new status quo? Do they have to come out and say "don't worry this character isn't really dead" every time they kill a hero off now too?
Or even "How will the good Cap get out of this one? Do you want to see how he wins in the end?" How will he triumph when he has become the thing he hates the most? That's easy marketing.
@@starwarsnerd100 I don't think it's necessarily that... well okay, some people were under the impression that this could be permanent but from what I recall? Most people were pissed because they KNEW this wouldn't be permanent and that this would be some publicity stunt. To add onto as well as paraphrase what someone said above, the problem with Marvel is that they are just so obsessed with trying to make these Earth-shattering "revelations" that will TOTALLY stick and change the very fabric of the universe and will just blow the minds of various readers... and often everything gets undone like the very next week after the event has happened. Case in point, Cap being a Nazi. Tons of people I could remember were already predicting that this would either be mind-control, a clone of Steve or even just some case of reality-warping and Marvel insisted "Oh no guys, it's the REAL Steve Rogers! We're totally not kidding here." and then very next issue just reveals that indeed, it's not the real Steve Rogers, meaning that Marvel not only told a basic and thoroughly unconvincing lie but also it turned out the reality of what this thing was meant to be was just predictable as people could predict when it came out. It was nothing more than a stupid publicity stunt that came out at the WORST possible time.
I always smirk when I see the HYDRA salute, because I remember Superhero texts where Agent Coulson was able take out an entire room of HYDRA agents. "I walked in, yelled 'Hail HYDRA', and I mowed them all down when they dropped their guns to do their stupid salute."
So good lmao
Remember the crossover where Joker stated "I'm a murderous criminal, but I'm an AMERICAN murderous criminal!" ? And he shot the Red Skull. Good times...
on a sliding scale of villainy Ill take the Joker over Nazi's any day...and i fucking hate the joker
@@alexandredesbiens-brassard9109 buddy you don't have to point this out WE ALREADY KNOW ITS PAINFULLY OBVIOUS TO THE VAST MAJORITY OF US
That scene was so dumb. As if the Joker should have has any standards.
Oh man, that was great. It even set during the Golden Age, I think.
@@alexandredesbiens-brassard9109 and you made it political, congratulations on commenting on stuff that has no place here
"We know who REALLY started Hydra...Mr. Computer."
Well...*looks at Arnim Zola* He's definitely a member of it.
I was about to ask if he was actually part of AIM, but I got mixed up with MODOK
Anyone remember the Memes with various other Superheroes standing in the same Pose as Cap when he says "Hail Hydra." and saying stuff that totally goes against who they are and/or betrays their Characters? Like Batman saying: "I killed my Parents." or Daredevil saying: "I was never blind."?
Well, I think Linkaras Version of this would be him holding a Copy of "Holy Terror" and proclaiming: "This is the greatest Comic ever made."
Someone please make this. It would be hilarious.
Hail Miller
oh....this smells like a evil universe.
Deadpool: The Green Lantern movie rocked
Sonic: Long live the eggman empire.
Deadpool: I hate chimichangas.
Spiderman: Fuck responsibility.
Red Hood: Killing is wrong.
Pearl: I have a crush on Greg.
Yuno Gasai: Fuck Yuuki.
Superman: Save yourself.
"If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and sieg heils like a nazi, it's a friggin nazi!"
This. This so much. Thank you Linkara.
This one feels pretty relevant considering the Ukranian Nazi war memorial we have in Canada.
Also Donald Duck in "Der Fuehrer's Face"
Suddenly I’m thinking of an old looney tunes propaganda cartoon called “the ducktators”.
Is this a reference to a certain Donald Duck cartoon? :)
To me, the only real difference between White Supremecists and Nazis is that Nazis have uniforms.
"We know who really started Hydra."
Me: Ancient Egypt?
"Mr. Computer."
Me: Ah yes, another force of great evil.
I thought it was Frank miller
I was thinking Ancient Egypt too
I thought It was the soggies.
Wasn't Hydra started in Egypt like 3000 years ago in comic universe?
@@BeaTru32 So that joke is ACTUALLY true? Weird.
Secret Empire can really best be summed up by an issue of Squirrel Girl. She gets a social media notification from Spiderman saying "ZOMG Squirrel Girl! Captain America is a Hydra member! There's going to be hero on hero fights and we must see who will rise or who will fall! Join our team and we can defeat them!". She responds by saying she's really busy trying to save dinosaurs in the Antarctic using computer science and everything will probably go back to normal with some minor changes here or there on their own and if not she'll just beat up Hydra Cap after she's done. Man typing that out made me realize that 90% of Marvel event comics could be solved if Squirrel Girl was on the scene.
God bless Squirrel Girl, she’s the hero we all need.
“Maybe it’s just me... but I’m not crazy about super hero stories where everything’s all dark and moody. Personally, I like the ones where good guys fight giant apes on the moon and stuff. Remember those?”
This is why her comics don't get tie ins...
"If it walks like a Duck, Quacks like a Duck and "Sig Hails" like a fricking Nazi, It's a fricking Nazi!" Best. line. EVER.
Also reminds me of that one short where Donald Duck was a Nazi.
Tbf Donald was having a nightmare
He should've said "If it quacks like a duck and steps like a goose, it's a frickin' Nazi!"
@@gennybaratta2460 I know, but it's still funny.
So, fun fact: the first time I saw that cartoon was during an Anime Hell showing at a con, and Marzgurl was running the projector.
...Damn, that would've been good.
I always loved the Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. season premiere that happened while some people at Marvel were flogging the "Hydra aren't Nazis" line. Agent Coulson is a schoolteacher in a Hydra-controlled alternate world, and he makes it *very* clear that Hydra are Nazis.
I just started binged agents of shield and Skye says to ward something to the effect of “why would I fall in love with a nazi? You’re part of Hydra, whose founder, the Red Skull, was a giant Nazi!”
Poor Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Apparently, too good for MCU Canon, despite the fact that it filled in so many holes.
@@CaptainEnglehornAhh Agents of Shield, only finished season one, so I need to get back into that show. But I love that season, love Skye and how she yelled at Ward for being a Hydra member.
Twas a good time
"We know who really started hydra"
GRANNY GOODNESS!!
*dramatic orchestra chord*
That name still sounds like it was from a cereal box mascot, to me.
While she was in ancient egypt!
ZOMG!! D8
No, she was busy torturing Raditz...
11:20 Well going by the silly costume probably some C-list supervillain..
11:29 "Sir Isaac Freaking Newton!!"
[SPITS DRINK]
I always knew gravity was Nazi Science
@@Predator20357 German science is the best in the world!
Please don’t mention that glorious man with this comic brought into the mix
Also COMIC BOOKS EVERYONE!!
@@SorowFame Until it's met by the 10000 year old Aztec
i think the big issue with cap being stated as a nazi is what the writer said.
"no no guys, this is the canon 616 cap who you have been rooting for. this is the captain whose debut issue is him punching hitler in the face. and he's been a nazi all along. this isn't some alternate reality clone, or someone pretending to be cap, this is what cap was all along."
that was probably meant to hype the story, but still. way to piss on the cap.
That indeed was one of the big issues and Linkara covered it. In particular it frustrated EVERYONE. For those who didn't like the idea of Cap being a Nazi to begin with it was a stupid idea because... come on and as for those who didn't really care and were jaded anyway about the comic industry? They were pissed because Marvel continuously pulls out of a hat these massive Earth-shattering revelations that almost IMMEDIATELY get undone and are outed as obvious publicity stunts.
You would think having a LITERAL MULTIVERSE OF ENDLESS POSSIBILITIES they might just go with the “oh, this is actually an alternate version of Cap that’s a nazi in his universe, and came here and took the old, good Cap’s place and worked as an undercover Hydra agent for awhile
@@ianbyrne465 But if they did that, it wouldn't be controversial and go viral! If they didn't pretend that Captain America was a traitor the whole time, would anyone like a story where Nazi America gets beaten down by Real America?
Spoiler alert, yes, we would love to have several stories of nazis and wannabe dictators getting punched.
I'm sorry but he meant by that so that people wouldn't immediately call out using the cosmic cube to undo everything (which was ultimately done). Also anybody that wasnt up n arms after the first issue of an ONGOING series and that bothered to read the next issue knows that Red Skull used the cosmic cube to change Cap's past.
Golden State, are you Nick Spencer's Alt account?
Why are you so dead set on defending this shitty story?
I still laugh my ass off at how Cap saying "Hail Hydra" was referenced in Endgame. XD
And it was much funnier.
at least they used it in a smart way, and in they I mean mcu
@@ForrestFox626 That's because he clearly was trying to deceive Hydra to get the staff, so the joke landed.
Jeffery Phillips My favorite comic book easter egg in that film!
Jeffery Phillips even better because Chris Evans was on the bandwagon hating hydra cap when he looked at that #1 issue of captain America: Steve rogers
This pretty much exposes a REALLY big gripe I have about Marvel Comics: they have this thing for introducing event storylines NOT as event storylines, but rather as the new status quo. "Hey, kids! We're taking this thing you love, and turning it into something you hate! And this is how it's going to be from now on! Give us money!" As far as I remember, this goes back to Age of Apocalypse, when Marvel announced it not as a new storyline, but rather, they were cancelling all the X-Men books, and launching new titles set in this grimdark world.
Another example was Superior Spider-Man, when Dan Slott killed off Peter Parker and had Doctor Octopus take over Peter's body and operated as Spider-Man for a year and a half. And Slott wanted that change to be permanent; I remember he said in an interview that the only reason he changed it back was to make it coincide with the release of Amazing Spider-Man 2.
I honestly think they market their stories this way because deep down, they're hoping fans will love the change of the new status quo; and they can go down in comic history as "the people who gave Marvel Comics the shake-up it sorely needed."
Of course, with Secret Empire, it backfired horribly! This, to me, was a decent story, but it was marketed in the worst possible way, at the worst possible time.
To be fair Superior Spider-man was pretty good
@@vanjagalovic3621 it had its moments.
And the worst part is that trash is spreading to DC writing now that they've hired all of their former writers, case in point aging up Clark and Lois son, making them slowly hate each other, HEROES IN TIME, The Gift, many more but those are off the top of my head.
I miss stuff like Crisis on Infinite Earth, Death (and Return) of Superman, Knightfall, No Man's Land, stories where the villains were not other heroes, and the status quo change was always said to be temporary despite the pomp and circumstance of the event.
@@rebornkusabi7264 Funny thing about Knightfall, though... the higher ups at DC were fully prepared to have Jean-Paul Valley be Batman permanently if he proved popular enough. So, the Batman writers made him as unlikeable as possible, going so far as to have him try to kill Robin (Tim Drake) , and then have him kill a villain, and letting said villain's hostage die as a result.
And, of course, the readers hated it, and the writers proved their point: Having superheroes (particularly Superman and Batman) act like The Punisher is a VERY bad idea.
And what's sad is I can think of only a few times these massive character shake-ups actually stuck for a couple decades. Psylocke changing from a demure Brit to a battle-loving ninja babe, Carol Danvers getting mind-wiped, and Tony becoming an alcoholic. Heck, the first two aren't even a thing anymore because the Internet deemed them problematic.
Well, at least we got a funny Endgame joke out of this series.
What was that exactly? just curious
Lamron Jr When Cap is in the elevator with Hydra to get the scepter. Instead of beating them all up like in ‘Winter Soldier’, he says “Hail Hydra”.
Best part of this miniseries. Also, good character work for MCU Cap, learning from his experiences and adapting to a new but familiar environment. You know, his major character arc.
Genuinely loved that. Really wished we got more references to comics like that. Not necessarily directly adapting a comic moment, but quoting or referencing a famous comic moment or meme.
I still prefer HISHEs version of it.
"Gimme the stick."
"No."
"Okay, you asked for it."
*Starts farting continuously*
"I can do this all day"
Marvel want Hydra to be Nazis only sometimes. They're nazis when Red Skull is in charge and not nazis any other time. That... just doesn't track. Even when they're "not nazis" they're still fascists. You can't have it both ways and split hairs like that.
OkAwesome Well that somewhat makes sense since Red Skull’s backstory is that he’s an actual Nazi raised by Hitler, so I guess it would make sense that he has some Hydra minions who actually are Nazis. It generally depends on who is leading at the moment since some Hydra members were Nazis or had Nazi ties or weren’t Nazis at all, as is the case with the second Baron Zemo who outright abandoned the ideals of Nazism and I believe he’s a member of Hydra. So it’s somewhat complicated. Generally though Hydra is pretty much just a generic evil organization like Mad or Cobra, as their goals really only amount to “take over the world” and nothing else. So fascism is probably the best thing to put them under and the Nazis were fascists.
Was Hydra ever genocidal though like the Nazis?
I miss Communist comic book villains. Good ol' Cold War.
@@brandonlyon730 I can't say for sure as I'm only a casual comic reader, but under the Red Skull they were at least by proxy due to his explicit commitment to Nazi ideology.
And when Baron Strucker is in charged.
In the words of Daisy Johnson: "The Red Skull, founder of HYDRA, was a big fat flipping Nazi!"
That Sharon and Captain Hydra dinner scene reminds me of Justice Lord Superman and Lois Lane scene.
That's the exact scene I was thinking of.
Vegadra I thought the same when I frost read that issue
That went through my mind, as well. Outright, blatant theft isn't the worst of this event's sins, but it's classless all the same.
But you wanna know the difference between this and JL Superman? JL Superman knows that he's the bad guy and won't hesitate to put down Lois Lane. Sharon's just being petty.
AKA the one time Lois wasn't dead in an Evil Superman timeline.
7:31 The Nazi fascination with Norse mythology even is mentioned in Captain America: The First Avenger. There's, it's explained that the reason why the Red Skull knew about the Tesseract, how it came to Earth, and what it was capable of was because he shared Hitler's fascination with pre-Christian Germanic beliefs, but instead of using it to reinforce the belief in German superiority, the Red Skull wished to harness its power for himself.
So... he's a progressive Nazi.
I'm still sad that the mastermind behind Secret Empire wasn't Richard Nixon, like in the original 70s Secret Empire
Ah, the storyline that, imo, did political commentary in Captain America more effectively. Heck, it made cap choosing the name "Nomad, the man without a counrty" impactful, imo.
don't be silly. that would make much more sense. so of course they're not gonna do it.
"Listen here, Cap, computers may be twice as fast they were in 1975, but the average voter is as drunk and stupid as ever! The only one who's changed is me. I've become bitter and - let's face it - CRAZY over the years! And once I'm swept into office, I'll sell our children's organs to zoos for meat! And I'll go into people's houses at night and wreck up the place! MWAHAHAHAHA!!!"
Nixon was kinda dead at this point
@@Dr.Mlieko comics though? Clone, time travel, reality altering, cyborg, alternate universe, take your pick
*The Cosmic Cube can do anything* . . . unfortunately.
Edit: Fixed the bolding
Can it make 2020 suck even more?
@@changvasejarik62 Probably.
@@changvasejarik62 no NOOO GOD no
Zettabeam62 *DONT GIVE IT IDEAS!*
It's also very slippery, apparently
Secret Empire. So many words. So many angry, angry words.
What kind of angry words.........
_Looks up AVGN curses_ : poppyhead
@@IllMatic97 Curse words in at least three different languages.
I have only two words for this comic:
FUUUUCCCKKKKK YOOOOOOUUUUU!!!!!!!!!!!!
Fun fact, despite Dr Doom and Captain Hydra being clear opposites at this point, both of them never interact in the story. IDK why.
doom hates nazis in general but during that point he went full superhero, the reason on why they never fought? maybe because it was bendis doing it and bendis only cares about himself while everyone else at marvel got tired of him and just ignore him......
@@slifer875 I mean I get that Bendis isn't too popular with his often disregard of continuity, but wasn't Infamous Doctor Doom critically well received? Heck even Superior Spider-man didn't get ignored while he was around despite being unpopular at first.
@@vanjagalovic3621 while it was well receive it everyone was already tired of bendis by 2016, also infamous iron man while good it shit the bed with the final issue, not to mention dan slott INMEDIATELY turn him back to clasic doom because "muh nostalgia"
@@slifer875 yeah. Bendis just decided "if i can't make victor von doom a hero, NOBODY CAN'T" and basically left doom in a position to go back to dr. doom persona. scarred face and all.
@@vanjagalovic3621 Yeah. i was scratching my head just wondering Why marvel wasted such a golden opportunity. We had Evil Captain America and Hero Victor Von Doom at the same moment in time..... and they completely banned victor from appearing AT ALL during secret empire. not even in tie-ins. or anything.
At least Peter Parker/Spider-man (who would have been another perfect hero to have against stevil/HYDRA Cap. at least in a tie in. especially given both deadpool and superior octopus were part of the HYDRA Avengers) made a cameo in the final issues and had his tie in.
Victor Von Doom didn't even appeared at all while the secret empire event happened if i remember correctly
It’s been a while since we’ve seen “TIME 4 BACKSTORY!”
Xander: the comic that assassinate
Steve rogers / captain America
Really? Whats the backstory for “TIME 4 BACKSTORY!”?
It's been a while since I couldn't hold my head up high.
@@Future_Vantas basically, when Atop the 4th Wall first started, there was a thing called the "Continuity Alarm" that pulled go off when too much backstory was given. Over time he stopped using that because his fans actually like it when he sums up past events for context.
@@kiritoswords6479It was repurposed to notify him when food was ready.
Just a quick note, as a programmer, Vision speaking in binary really isn't that weird. Programming languages are really just for the benefit of the humans writing in them, they all get compiled down to binary for the computer to use. Admittedly, he's way more complex than code in the real world, but assuming computers are essentially the same, it's not an issue
Ternary Computers were/are a thing, and apparently more efficient than binary energy wise, it’s just that the latter became standard, and they’re not cross compatible
All existence can be simplified to binary. Even the human neuron has the binary "Fire/NoFire"
I've been trying to translate what Vision says, and all I get is either "(Mu" or "Q-Q".
@@Metrion77 we’re living computers?! The fuck?!
@@gracekim25 Basically.
"It's Isaac freaking newton!"
Me: Wait a second, I think I've *looks at the tattoos on his arm* God freaking dang it, the one time period I got into comics and this is the payoff
As someone who actually likes Secret Empire....you are right on the money on how badly Nick Spencer and Marvel handled the publicity for this thing...
I will say this. Nick Spencer is not a bad writer. He’s done some great stuff for both Spider-Man and Ant Man but as Linkara likes to point out even good writers have their screw ups.
I enjoyed Secret Empire as well, despite it's flaws. That interview though I feel did indeed do more harm to the event than good. I understand not wanting to spoil your twist (even though it's kind of obvious that no one in their right mind would genuinely make Captain America into a Hydra agent so of course it's going to turn out to be a trick in the end), but still.
If you want a really good Nick Spencer book, I highly recommend Superior Foes of Spider-Man. It is honestly my favourite comic of all time. Hands down.
to me, it seems like Nick Spencer is much at street level/comedy stuff than he is at big, global-scale stories
@@mediabaron2416 The problem is that you can't assume that people are in their right mind anymore. "Nazis are bad" doesn't feel like a lesson that needed to be reinforced, but here we are.
His current run on Amazing Spider-Man is terrific stuff. He's great with Spidey, just not with event comics, it seems.
@@roguishpaladin "Nazis are bad" is 100% a lesson that needs to be reinforced. Just look at the rampant white supremicism/nationalism/fascism of the Trump administration.
People voted for him BECAUSE he reinforced Nazi ideas. The US 100% NEEDED a wakeup call. And with how hard right many self proclaimed "comics fans" are, a comic was a decent choice to point out how terrible the ideas are.
"All Hydra are Nazis" THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!! God you have no idea how hard it is for some to get that through their thick skulls.
True, but if you haven’t noticed, too many Americans are embracing the Hydra mindset rn.
I think the second biggest mistake that the movies have done regarding the Captain America movies was how they decided to barely mention the Nazis by name in the first movie, and basically divested Hydra from the Nazis in order to make them seem cooler, I guess.
@@benwasserman8223 Depressing but true.
@@smjaiteh Gotta love how "punch nazis" has become a controversial stance
now it's true, Hydra didn't start out as Nazis, they were just a powerful cult, but they joined the Nazis in WW2, aborted many if not all their ideals, made Red Skull, right hand to Hitler himself in charge of Hydra, they became Nazis and are still Nazis to this day
Rick saying “Avengers Assemble” as he’s getting executed always made me tear up ngl
I have a feeling they only said "this wasn't the real Cap" only because the event has been plummeting in reception so badly. If they thought they could get away with it, they'd happily just make this the real Cap.
I'm almost certain that was the case. Tom Brevoort, the editor for the series, explicitly stated, early on, that it was the real Cap. Not brainwashed, not an imposter, and not an alternate reality version, the real Steve Rogers.
Making the symbol of all things great in the USA a literal nazi, no way that could rub people the wrong way.
Actually, the original idea was not to say which one of them is the real Cap.
@@RabblesTheBinx technically speaking he is correct. in a sense. is like saying how in legends of tomorrow at the end of season 2, the Doomworld universe is the normal universe.
because it was reality warped by force.
Or like how the DC Universe post-crisis is the de facto dc unvierse. because it got reality warped.
however ti believe nick wouldn't be crazy enough to leave cap as nazi. at least not without a way to undo everything and have our cap come back considering his blatant intent to undo One More Day in current amazing spider-man books, i am sure he would have at least undo his own stuff and not be like joe quesada
As Linkara says in the third part, the series does gloss over the more negative aspects of fascism makes me wonder if they were deliberately trying for a misnamed fandom a'la American History X (popular with the type of people the villains in it are) I wouldn't be surprised if the second half was a way for the creative team to have plausible deniability for a dog-whistle. Disney lets it go as the nazis are the bad guys, but the bad guys are shown as being so good and may have a point to a less observant reader. Keep in mind that Pearlmutter is a big supporter of our current president who thinks supremacists are 'fine people' and will retweet their stuff. Also, Nick Spenser has backed some nasty racist politics IRL...
Ah yes, the Cap arc so infamous that even Endgame memed on it.
- Immortal Isaac Newton doing mystic stuff.
What is this, Vision of Escaflowne?
The basic conceit I'm getting from this review, is that "Secret Empire" was essentially a classic instance of writers not thinking about the implications of their own work, and not realizing that being "shocking" for the sake of being "shocking" isn't as appealing as some may think.
I got the impression that Nick Spencer is a closeted Nazi.
You know the scene between Sharron and Stevil at the dinner table really feels like it was trying to be that one scene in the DCAU of alternate totalitarian Superman having dinner with Lois
Yeah, I saw a comment comparing that scene with Sharon and Stevil with the scene of Justice Lord Supes and Lois.
@@tronmaster5704 "Cold"
"It's Gazpacho..."
To be fair, real-life Isaac Newton was seriously into alchemy.
Honestly, events like House of M and Secret Empire really show how many people who hate comics and their characters are in the business writing comics.
Linkara....Issac Newton was an Alchemist in real life.
There is a lot of historical revisionism around the founding thinkers of the scientific method due to the sheer volume of occult elements involved with them.
Its far to say without things like the cults of Hermes Trismegistus (What the costume is clearly based on) we wouldn't have had the natural philosophies that lead to the modern scientific method.
Alchemy and Magic aren't one and the same
Issac Newton wasn't the first physicist, he was the last alchemist. On a side note, I would totally love a modified version of this character (you know, without the Nazism) to become actual canon, not cosmic cube distorted canon.
Except that alchemy isn't real ._.
@@AquaLantern It's basic ideas were wrong but much the practice laid the groundwork for modern chemistry and gave a sufficient mathematical background to develop Newtonian physics.
I mean, gunpowder was discovered by Chinese alchemists trying to create an elixir of life. But I guess we can say that Newton was living through a big transition period where religion/magic was being separated from science/philosophy. But I don't want to give Secret Empire that much credit for knowing a basic fact about Newton that can be found on Wikipedia.
I really hope for the “Cosmic Cube can do anything!” Be a constant reference alongside the classic ones in this show.
Of course! Don't you know anything about the science of Cosmic Cubes?
@@BaronSengir1008 Cubes. My god.
"Oh boy! I'm writing my first event series! I hope it turns out as good as I-"
"Hey, mandate from on high, they want you to have Nitro in the opening."
"Aw crap."
To be fair, Nostradamus isn't a member of Hydra: he is a prisoner of Hydra, forced to do their bidding.
That doesn’t mean it’s not silly.
@@mixwidman5458Yes. It would be like if in a tie-in. Darkwing Duck showed up. And they explained that after conquering this world. Hydra wants to take over other dimensions. So they made Drake's rogues gallery (Plus Magica & Flintheart Glomgold) into nazis (While showing a crimebot to indicate this is the Boom Studios comic continuity that's being used) and that Gossalyn got kidnapped.
I think it says something when Agents of SHIELD was doing their own "HYDRA takes over the world" plot at the same time, and handled it a lot better. They even had one of the heroes become a despicable monster working for them, but it worked because a) it established right away it wasn't the real world, b) the reasons he was working for HYDRA in that reality actually made sense, and c) he felt nothing but remorse once he got back to the real world and learned about what he had done.
Who "he"?
@@saagabragi6938Fitz
Interestingly enough, portraying Newton as a magician and alchemist is entirely accurate. We know him today as a scientific genius, which, don't get me wrong, he absolutely was, but he also put a lot of work into researching magic, alchemy, and the occult - possibly more work than he put into his scientific studies.
If you find you have time, read the _Rivers of London_ series, or at least the tie-in graphic novels. Isaac Newton as a magician is a very important figure in the backstory.
It really is fun seeing instances of renowned scientists from the past not really being removed from things like the occult, the mystic, or religion. Makes me wonder if those distinctions are moreso modern inventions
Isaac Newton was also an immortal sorcerer in the anime Vision of Escaflowne.
I guess it makes sense. Back then we didn’t know as much as we do now, so the difference between science and magic was blurrier.
@@GurrenPrime It's always difficult to apply modern-day categories to ancient people. It's easy for us to say "Alchemy was obviously nonsense, so Newton was crazy to pursue it", but...to a great extent, the reason we know that alchemy is nonsense is _because_ people like Newton, John Dee, etc did investigate it, and eventually found it was nonsense. Newton's discoveries in science were part and parcel of his investigations into what we would call magic and alchemy.
Werrf1 that’s sorta what I was trying to get at. Thanks for explaining it better.
4:53 As I recall they not only didn't tell us this but specifically went *out of their way* to deny it. The writers claimed that this wasn't mind control, nobody had altered his memories or anything, this is just Steve Rogers secretly being a Nazi. Which is bullcrap.
5:40 Oh there we go
Secretly a Nazi? They frickin retconned Steve to be a Nazi first, Axis beats Allies (NaziCap's help), Allies made retcon cube to change Steve from CaptainNazi to Captain America to do over the war and win this time and the writers are just gonna let all this go?
No wonder we forgot about about that craptastic story.
Battlion 50 Yah because they basically say “Nazi’s where too strong so Allies had to basically cheat” but doesn’t make sense as who did this? If it was America then why not have all US troopers have a very low casualty rate and USSR basically join the US for Democracy, If USSR then have them basically take over the Entire European Continent have them be all pro-communist while making US weak.
K did you read Issue 2 of the series that revealed he was a Nazi? Cuz they show that Red Skull changed the past or his memories, its unclear which one, to make him a HYDRA agent.
@@goldenstatewarriors9418 I'm aware. And the writers specifically went out of their way to deny that this was the case at first.
I knew that Cap was created to counter Nazies, but I didn't know that his creators were Jewish. That makes this more than a little worse.
What's worst was the fact that Mjolnir deemed Nazi Cap worthy but Thor was deemed unworthy because of something he had no control over. Yes I know the enchantment was changed but still that pissed me off.
If I recall correctly, what the Cosmic Cube changed about Steve Rogers' past was that his mother got approached by a Hydra agent before he was even born and indoctrinated her into the movement.
So by that logic Cap's past was rewritten, so Captain America we knew ceased to exist. And the way it ends is all the more insulting to his character.
I remember when Secret Empire came out and hearing news that Captain America was with Hydra, my jaw dropped to the floor to the “What the Hell were you thinking Marvel!?”
The same thing they always do: "We are going to sell SO MANY comics!"
I yell that every time any modern event is announced.
i was pissed when i heard that!
My first thought was "Oh, so like the time he was a werewolf?"
@Trevor Anthony
Yep, just as *Linkara had explained in "Time for Backstory,"* it was just an alternate counterpart made by a Cosmic Cube.
You forgot to mention that in the first avenger the MCU movie for captain america debuting in the MCU it had Hydra be a research group for the Nazis before they defected to become their own thing. So yeah, even the MCU is saying they are Nazis.
Cap turning evil but still wanting to be a "nice guy" in this series reminds me so much of when Phoebe became the evil queen of the demons in Charmed, but still wanted to help her sisters save innocents and write her column.
Or rather, it reminds me of Allison and Phelan's review of that episode, which is much more watchable.
As a Pagan, seeing the fact that _Marvel_ basically implied that Hydra Cap was powerful enough to pick up Mjolnir is yet another example of "The Nazis ruined pagan symbology".
I am so sorry for you. No monster should steal pagan symbology, especially those that are of justice.
I honestly think the Norse gods at least wouldn't sidevwith the Nazis. Mostly on a "these guys are boring, but they look like a fun fight" kinda way
Except Odin. That nutterbutter would see them as yet another target of his "scam people out of their knowledge" addiction.
Nazis ruin everything. Unless they're getting beaten up.
@@williamhumes7332 I actually had someone a while back on Twitter literally say I was a nazi for having runes on my name. When I called them out on it, they simply acted more confused how a friend of mine "found their post". People truly would rather not do research.
@@michaeliv284 Essentially, and yeah, Odin would simply see what knowledge they'd have. Although I'd imagine the Norse Gods wouldn't be amused at the Nazis essentially taking runes and some of their iconography and bastardizing them.
I keep thinking of those episodes of “Family Matters” whenever he says “Steevil.”
Barely watched it, but yeah, it's lodged solidly in my pop culture memory with those creepy puppets. Also, Carlsbad and, unrelated, Stefan Urquelle
@@ToHoldNothing What about when Urkel became Bruce Lee?
@@funkyweapon1981 Oh and then he beat up Tommy from Power Rangers? Classic.
If I recall correctly, in one of the tie in issues had Magneto as a member of Hydra, the *HOLOCAUST SURVIVOR* was made into a Nazi! Just to make things even more offensive!
What. the. FUCK?!
Are we sure Magneto didn't get brainwashed? Because the master of magnetism feels like a villain who would adamantly oppose Hydra Cap. Who else became a nazi: General Ross (He may have been onboard until they temporarily revived Bruce Banner) Meek (Saying that reviving Banner & having the man confess that he's lost all trust & respect for the others while hydracap says this is the closest he can get to making him into the world breaker again), Kingpin, A somehow revived Heroic Green Goblin (Again. They already brought back Bruce Banner. Why not resurrect Phil & give him a stolen bit of goblin serum)
I'm thankful at least that Wanda working for Stevil was because of demonic mind controlling and not her being a willing Villain in this.
The Nazis heavily oppressed Romani.
So...Is everything all a fever dream? Is the classic Captain America still existent or non-existent?
"It just raises too many questions." - Val Kilmer Batman
All they had to do with the Hydra Cap thing was to do what DC did with the Death and Return of Superman, publicly talk about how this was a temporary status quo change, that this wasn't the real Steve and that the real Steve Rodgers would return "sometime in the future", be vague to avoid spoiling the book they wanted to make, but also just get out ahead of the controversy. Make it VERY CLEAR that they had a grand plan for this reveal and not that they were turning Cap into a Nazi. Instead (In the understandable desire to keep the story un-spoiled) they decided to just string the readership along with Nazi Captain America for over a year. It was also kinda bone-headed to do the Hydra Cap reveal RIGHT AFTER CAPTAIN AMERICA: CIVIL WAR! Marvel sometimes needs to get their comics division and movie division in a room together to make sure that major launches of books and major story beats that they want to do won't be happening with characters that are about to get huge movies that will drive viewers to maybe check out the comics. Hydra Cap was memed so hard because the first issue of that solo book came out right after the Civil War Movie, which gave it a ton more publicity because you had this huge blockbuster with Captain America that was so damn good, at the same time the new comic for Steve had him revealed as a Nazi!
@@gyga100 Eh, even as a publicity stunt, once they saw the controversy, they should have just come out ahead and said "hey, we are working on a story over the next year" instead of playing coy and trying to pretend this is permanent. Death of Superman and Civil War's changes were massive, but there wasn't a major backlash that made NATIONAL HEADLINES
Also didn't help that they did it on an anniversary.
Additionally, someone should've reigned in Spencer on twitter. He really made shit worse by intentionally choosing to antagonize fans, doing things like posting photoshopped images of Chris Evan's Cap in a Hydra outfit, and saying "What's not to love?".
Again, Marvel should have looked at the headlines after Hydra Cap was first revealed, seen how much controversy was being generated (especially how much of it was saying that Marvel was disrespecting the legacy of Cap's creators) and tried to do some damage control instead of playing coy.
@@toqkaizogou1636 Absolutely, im all for creators standing up for their right to tell whatever story they want, but Spencer ignored very legitimate criticism of Hydra Cap and Secret Empire.
Good lord this comic.... I remember when the news came out of Cap being member of Hydra. I thought he was a clone, an imposter, mind control, Skrull, or if this was a What IF Story. But yeah, if you make Captain America a Nazi, or say anything terrible, ignorant or stupid about him and what he represents (I'm looking at you CBR and Caleb Clark) be prepared to be attacked by us fans who love him. To me Captain America represents everything America can be and should be, if they put their brains and heart into it.
"They can be great people Kal-El, they wish to be.They only lack the light to show the way."
Honestly the attacks is where I feel people REALLY overstepped boundaries. I mean criticize certainly the work for being absolutely ridiculous but when you start taking shots at people, your point gets lost and at this point the person is just an asshole.
Saying Hydra are not nazi's is like saying Cobra isn't a snake themed terrorist organization. It only works if you completely rewrite the organization and what they are, and, at that point you just have some other organization wearing there hats.
Marvels problem with Hydra is that they, Hydra, IS a nazi group. They were designed to be nazis because Jack Kirby thought that would be the most evil thing at the time (it's sad that they are STILL the most evil thing in the world today. Different leaders, names etc, still just as evil and bigoted.).
It's hard to make anything more overall objectively evil than the Nazis, COBRA tried to be Alt-Right HYDRA Yahtzees in UN blue Peacekeeper helmets (!?) but ultimately the snakes were made to look like teddy bears in comparison.
It is genuinely comforting that Linkara started this by explaining that it was a different Cap and earlier pointed out that people misunderstood details about the event.
I love how passionate you get when something's so terrible that you drop the "I don't feel the need to constantly swear" demeanor.
Lol the fact that in her bedtime stories he refers to his group as terrorists. Wouldn't he try to make them look a little better than if he was tryin to convince her they were the good guys?
This story is my own personal One More Day. Mentioning it’s existence makes me sooo angry.
All I remember about this event was what a cheap copout the ending was.
crossbones116 Agreed!
It's so weird seeing Nick getting praise for his Spider-Man run and then I found what he did prior to that.
To be fair, Secret Empire actually got pretty positive reviews for the individual episodes. It's just that the fandom didn't care.
@@benwasserman8223 Makes sense. Not everyone reads the comics and they only know stuff because internet journalism gets super picky about what to show for clicks I guess
His Spider-Man is way worse then Secret Empire, which really was an ok event with a weak comclusion.
I heard there was a comic were Magneto worked with Nazi's? I was like wha? Magneto? Sounds like another missstep there.
I’m starting to think Marvel considers nazis to be supervillains and not an actual hate group
@@sigh824 It wouldn't surprise me really.
@@sigh824 While that's clearly part of the problem, there's still the issue of characters acting... out of character.
@@sigh824 It's what happens when a portion of the population wants to embrace certain ideals but doesn't want to be associated with the organization which has been condemned by history as evil for embracing those ideals. If you focus the idea of the evil into the name rather than the more complex behavior, then people just learn to hate the orange armbands instead of the evil idea of racial purity. It's the same with the term "racist" - no one wants to be called racist, but many people will embrace racist behavior and then disclaim that their behavior is not racist.
That sounds as awful as the Harley Quinn cartoon downplaying her Jewish identity and having constant references to Jewish people cremating others.
Last time I was this early Blip tv was hosting this series
“Secret Empire”
Well it’s not much of a secret now guys!
Riiiiiiight.
TheDUDERulez1 I mean why would they call it a secret empire if it was meant to be a secret
Alexandre Desbiens-Brassard I was making a joke
Alexandre Desbiens-Brassard just ignore all his non fascist tendencies
The Witch Doctors Are you talking about me? I’m sorry if I sound rude, I’m just asking
The biggest failing of this book was that it definitely empowered real world Nazis and alt-righters. I definitely saw above type of people call this book "based" in various comicbook spaces, like e.g. 4chan Comics and Cartoons board.
And I still suspect Nick Spencer of doing so intentionally.
14:10 Remember people. Maria Hill is also responsible BIG TIME for a LOT of stuff that Stevil and HYDRA did in this event.
After all, she created Pleasant Hill as a way to strip villians (and later she was planning on doing that to heroes too) from their identities.
Without their permission.
This backfired MASSIVELY when Red Skull used this to his advantage and was able to manipulate Kobik
Crisis of the Secret Infinity House of Gauntlet Wars Vs. Avengers. Rated M.
M for MADNESS!
Final Mix Plus II Turbo HD Game of the Year Edition: Director’s Cut.
Featuring Dante from the Devil May Cry Series
@@vwin9112 TOTAL BARGAIN MADNESS!
@@jonahfalcon1970 THE PRICE IS INFINITY FOR OUR WALLETS AND MINDS! THIS IS SP-I MEAN COMICS!
Linkara's point about this empire not being very secret is a good argument as to why Marvel shouldn't just recycle names from older stories.
The biggest problem I had with Secret Empire (aside from the fact that they turned Cap into a Nazi) is that the Kobik aspect seemed to be more retcon/editorial mandate due to the backlash than what was intended. Spencer's own comment aside, Tom Brevoort commented at the very beginning of the event that Stevil wasn't brainwashed, wasn't a shapeshifter or imposter, and _wasn't an alternate reality version_ of the character, he was the _real Steve Rogers._ Based on that comment, alone, it's clear that they had every intention of Hydra Cap being the genuine article and only changed it because people were so offended by the idea. So, no, I don't give Marvel a pass for it, even with cosmic cube shenanigans.
Hoo boy...
*This one's been a long time comin', hasn't it?*
Me: “Holy shit Linkara’s going to talk about one of my favorite event comics! Can’t wait to start
40 seconds in “THIS IS A FRUSTRATING EVENT”
Lol I’m glued to my screen
Same
Ditto.
Yeah most people hated the story it's another last Jedi situation. Where 80% of the the public hated it and the other 20% is just plain wrong.
I've been a fan of AT4W for years, yet your Hydra rant in the beginning of this video has greatly increased my respect of you. Well stated.
Ah yes
Iron man's artificial intelligence copy of his brain after captain marvel put him in a coma because he didn't want to use the kid who could predict the future (via presented information, so they can't be 100% certain, as far as I know) to arrest people before they commit a crime
Civil War II much like Civil war (original) made me hate the "antagonistic" side of the conflict by the end of it, seriously, I had no problem with Captain Marvel (yes, she was VERY different from how she was as Miss Marvel, to the point where I don't think Rouge would have become such a better person if the personality she "absorbed" had been Captain Marvel as she is now, but characters change and sometimes become darker, in Carol's case she became more militaristic) but that was BEFORE she decided to arrest people for the POSSIBILITY of committing a crime, and getting NO repercussion from putting Tony Stark in a COMA and basically killing him, since its been revealed that the 'current' Tony is just (seemingly) more of a clone (with MAYBE the AI as its base) than an actual resurrection with the original having DIED in the coma, the problem isn't that, but the fact that its NEVER been addressed with Carol present, I get a character changing but she KILLED a man and there was no consequence, that's not right
We all know she probably did it because Tony was calling the kettle black when he of all people called her out on her drinking problem.
Consequences are for those without powers
@@trevingrayek1671 Consequences are for people not named Carol Danvers
seriously, marvel, just make her an actual full on villain, NOONE is buying her as a hero anymore
Sara Fontanini Yeah, the stuff I heard about comic CM is O O F. Nice villain costume though.
Fortunately, her movie counterpart is way more likable
@@trevingrayek1671
Slightly yes
but the Actress playing Monica Ranbeau was so much better that I kinda wish SHE had been made captain Marvel instead, like she was acting literal circles around Brie, and frankly I've seen Brie in other stuff where she wasn't directed well enough and OOF does it hurt, but I have to say that Captain Marvel is A LOT better in the MCU than she is in the comics which is sad since I think the best version of her is still Miss Marvel, but the company has been falling for so long that I don't think they can get back up again at this point
Well I would actually like to see Sir Isaac Newton as Sorcerer Supreme of the 18th century. In real life he was really into alchemy, ocultism and christian legends and treated those subjects as seriously as he treated the therory of light, motion and gravity. I would buy the idea of him as a Sorcerer Supreme.
Sir Isaac Newton: Pioneer of Magitech (the combination of Magic and technology properly working together)
Now i have another concept i wanna use in my own superhero universe
@@ianr.navahuber2195 I am phd student in history of science, if you need any references on newton doing magic just call me hahaha
Yes please!
Addendum: Just found out he was chief of the British treasure and oversaw coin production for a while so he had the means to fund a parallel super hero team
"Although in reality we know who really started Hydra..."
...Ancient Egypt?
"...Mr Computer."
That's scarier then what I thought!
In relation to how Marvel pushes Hydra merch, have you ever noticed how much more prevalent the Empire and First Order are in Star Wars merchandise? Specifically how much harder they're pushed at customers than the heroes?
People do seem to have more of a fascination with villains than heroes, and there’s _usually_ enough of a disconnect to avoid getting too real, even with the Empire despite the Nazi imagery. But when the villains actually ARE literal Nazis… either they were absolutely braindead or there was some sussy business going on at Marvel the same way Hydra infiltrated SHIELD in Winter Soldier; I’ll put it like that.
17:44 I understand that it's generally pretty dumb when robots or computers "speak" in binary, but why would that mean he was programmed in binary? He's a computer from earth, so of course the underlying structure of him runs on ones and zeros.
Thank you. Linkara over here forgetting how computers work at all.
What about Viv and her “human?” sister/body?
I've been waiting for this one for a long, LONG time. The amount of pure rage this comic inspired in me was comparable to what One More Day did for you.
I feel like Lewis and Dr. Crafty missed a good chance to get a dig at CA by not having the titlecard be of Linkara in Cap's pose saying "Hail Channel Awesome", just saying. XD
So wait... Most of the normal events of the Marvel universe have still happened and within the entire period NO other avenger has ever seen him without a shirt? He's never had his armor torn? He's never changed in the HQ? HOW COULD THIS BE? This event is breaking me
What I remember thinking after issue zero is that there was an immense plot hole in the form of America Chavez. She's one of the super powerful heroes Evil Cap strands outside the shield in order to not have to deal with them. But, hold up, she can punch through into other dimensions, take other people with her, and she's Thor levels of powerful all by herself, so why doesn't she punch into another dimension outside the shield, punch back in on the other side, clean these Nazi losers clocks and have the whole thing wrapped up by the end of issue 1, max? Was that ever addressed? Am I misunderstanding her powers?
The cosmic cube can do anything!
Can it end this covid problem so everyone can enjoy their lives and get back to their daily routines?
It can do anything not make miracles honey
It can, but it won't, because we have to learn a lesson!
Yes, but with how things are going even without COVID and how falcon once stated the cubes can have monkey’s paw like after effects. I fear the cube would probably give everyone supercancer and really ugly skin infections.
@@changvasejarik62 wait, so like Fallout ghouls?
Okay but we got a lot of hilarious variations from that meme.
One of my favorites being "The Nu Gundam is just for show." while Amuro burns up in the atmosphere.
Agents of SHIELD did the HYDRA world idea better.
victor hoang they did! Agents is fantastic
They only did that as a fuck you to Nick Spencer.
@Darth_ Madara And it opened (then shut) doors on some good ideas for the writers to explore, like every dead character being alive again! 8D
It being part of the amazing fourth season with Ghost Rider and LMDs certainly helped, too.
@@DasNordlicht91 The LMD shit went on way too long, but it was solid.
Weird Al: ♫ But that's really not important to the story! ♫
That's twice now Marvel's Las Vegas has been destroyed. Property value must be getting really low there.
Don't worry Doctor Strange resurrected it from hell and now the Mephisto lives there.
@@badman3000 If the presence of the lord of Hell doesn't lower property value, I don't know what will.
@@mediabaron2416 it's a casino hotel that everybody goes to quite popular actually brought back the economy.
In defense of Vision speaking in binary, the closer you get to it the harder it is to program but if you do it right the better peeformance is. Which for an artificial inteligence would be pretty important.
While it is crazy how much work it is to convert c++ or c# to c by hand, and then doing it to basic or binary, making the ai be in these IS better for it.
Kinda doubt they thought of this though. I bet is was just "machine brain thinks in 0 and 1"
On the Isaac Newton thing: there's "comics are weird, just roll with it," and there's, ""WHAAAT?!?!?"
Which one does Issac Newton fall under
@@Spiderkeyblader somewhere in the middle but mostly the latter.
@@colinvandenberg3446 Ohhhh ok
Man, I always look forward to your uploads, can't wait to watch!
The first nine minutes are a straight up “AMEN”
16:29 I think you made a mistake here Linkara. I’m pretty sure that’s Helmut Zemo, the second Baron Zemo, who is the son of the original Baron Zemo and from what I recall from research into his character he actually isn’t a Nazi as he abandoned the ideology a long time ago. You’re probably thinking about his father, Heinrich Zemo, the first Baron Zemo who actually was a Nazi. You might not know but he started out as a villain who wanted to avenge his father, worshipping his memory, and hated Cap because after the Adhesive X Incident Heinrich became abusive towards him, which he blamed Cap for, but after some time he comes to terms with the fact that Heinrich was just a terrible father and a even worse man. And this leads him to eventually disowning his father, his ancestry and the Nazi ideology and all associated prejudices, in fact he actually dated a Jewish woman once. In fact there’s actually a storyline where he takes a trip back in time in a moment where he ran into his father while the latter was doing mad science for the Nazis and since Helmut abandoned the ideology he was fuming watching his father out down other races, the handicapped, etc. He finally had enough and started beating the hell out of him while calling him out. It’s actually a pretty notable character arc. So no, he isn’t a Nazi, unlike his father. Now he does want to take over the world still but it’s not motivated out of any belief in Nazism but because he wants to make the world a better place to live in, which makes him a more complex character than his father ever was and this along with other reasons is largely why Helmut eventually outgrew his father in popularity and is recognized as *the* Baron Zemo, his father was basically a second-rate Red Skull (in fact he was created, to fill the role of Red Skull until Lee and Kirby just decided to bring him back), has no redeeming qualities and is just plain evil, his son is just a more charismatic and likable antagonist in comparison.
Can we get some more Batman: Odyssey? I love that crazy sh*t.
Edit: The historical Newton was a _huge_ alchemy buff and wrote more about that than he wrote about what we would call "physics." He was also a religious weirdo who wrote copious amounts on the Revelation of St John, the Book of Daniel, and (in secret, because he would have been killed otherwise) how the Trinity was a lie.
Batman Odyseey is basically a ironically enjoyable version of ASBAR.
“I feel it sig heils like a duck, it’s a nazi.”
That line is funnier when you remember that time Donald Duck was a nazi.
In a dream
Eryk Nakamura Plus in that dream he wasn’t even a soldier, just a rank and file civilian forced into working to support the regime. It annoys me when people bring up that short out of context.
I was thinking that, I didn't know whether or not I was insensitive
I completely understand why "Secret Empire" struck such a nerve with so many people. This is not how you treat your fans, Marvel.
Hell, this is not how you tackle such a controversial issue as the resurgence of rightwing extremists. Just... it's just bloody offensive.
especially when red skull went from openly preaching real nazi stuff to being pretty milquetoast in some losers basement saying um guys shouldnt we like give some more welfare to citizens before letting in a lot of refugees
@@donb7519 wait they said that, does that mean there saying your a Nazi if you want to help the person in trouble next to you first instead of the person also in trouble across the ocean? WTF
@@dalek--ck9oy the person writing that tie in was since this was when the migrant crisis was huge news
I keep thinking back to Dan Slott's approach to writing plot points that piss people off: "an enraged fan is an engaged fan."
Man, Newton really went off the deep end after Escanflowne
Oh boy, an atopthefourthwall on a Wednesday!
Man, more schedule problems, eh Linkara? Or more time-warps? You decide.
While I love Nick Spencer current run on Spiderman to be amazing and appreciate him undoing a lot of things that I didn't like from Slott run, this whole idea of Captain America being a nazi and such was VERY stupid.
Edit: Okay, so it wasn't the actual Captain America but its still dumb for the reason Linkara stated.
It's a statement about America's irl fascism.
@@crimeman110 Yeah I get that but its sil dumb for the reasons Linkara stated.
Crime Man
Yeah but during the build up they really had us guessing
@@kingofthebis1068 Exactly
@@pedanticat9479 I disagree with Linkara. American exceptionalism, and us viewing ourselves as the hero In all aspects all the time NEEDS to be challenged. While challenging that view by using a character that represents what people see as American heroism, an >6 foot tall blonde man, and revealing that in an alternative reality the America he believes in is a horrifying fascist state works so well in making people that deny America's problems upset and uncomfortable. When this story makes you frustrated, it's supposed to.
I wouldn't have been as mad at this event of Marvel had been upfront about Hydra-Cap from the start. Instead of saying "this is totally the real Cap doing this, no really" they should have said "don't worry, the real Cap will be back at the end of this story arc."
A reason why I think Earth's Mightiest Heroes' "evil cap" story/Secret Invasion was so much better.
I think that’s kind of the point of the story though. The beginning of the story could be read as nazi Steve is true Steve, only for the end to show how all of that was built on deceit and evil, showing just how wrong the ideology is.
I mean, having Cap be a Nazi is still a stupid idea, but I find that to be a strange objection. Did anyone really think the real Cap *wouldn't* be back at the end of the story arc? Did anyone really think it was the new status quo? Do they have to come out and say "don't worry this character isn't really dead" every time they kill a hero off now too?
Or even "How will the good Cap get out of this one? Do you want to see how he wins in the end?" How will he triumph when he has become the thing he hates the most? That's easy marketing.
@@starwarsnerd100 I don't think it's necessarily that... well okay, some people were under the impression that this could be permanent but from what I recall? Most people were pissed because they KNEW this wouldn't be permanent and that this would be some publicity stunt. To add onto as well as paraphrase what someone said above, the problem with Marvel is that they are just so obsessed with trying to make these Earth-shattering "revelations" that will TOTALLY stick and change the very fabric of the universe and will just blow the minds of various readers... and often everything gets undone like the very next week after the event has happened.
Case in point, Cap being a Nazi. Tons of people I could remember were already predicting that this would either be mind-control, a clone of Steve or even just some case of reality-warping and Marvel insisted "Oh no guys, it's the REAL Steve Rogers! We're totally not kidding here." and then very next issue just reveals that indeed, it's not the real Steve Rogers, meaning that Marvel not only told a basic and thoroughly unconvincing lie but also it turned out the reality of what this thing was meant to be was just predictable as people could predict when it came out. It was nothing more than a stupid publicity stunt that came out at the WORST possible time.
Guys, I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that Linkara isn't very fond of nazis.
Personally, I agree with that sentiment.