Everything WRONG With Havoc Demon Hunter - And How I Would Fix It.
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ก.พ. 2025
- It has officially been over ONE YEAR (Nov 7th 2023) since the last time Havoc Demon Hunter's Class or Spec Talent tree received any changes aside from small numerical tuning. In the previous video in this series, i covered the Demon Hunter Class tree. Today, it is time to FINALLY tackle the Havoc Demon Hunter Spec Tree! There will be ONE more video in this little mini series where i go over the hero talent trees, but for now, Enjoy this one!
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Class Tree Video: • Havoc Demon Hunter's C...
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00:00 - Intro
00:45 - Discombobulated Tree
05:47 - 2 Point Nodes
11:28 - Mostly Boring Passives
13:46 - Defensives in Spec Tree (They're also weak)
16:02 - Individual Nodes and Things I Want to See
29:33 - Closing Thoughts
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When I die in raid, I'm asked by the raid leader "why" then I reply, "Demon hunter things" because it's usually me zooming off a platform either unintentionally, into a pool of death or some weird stacking movement mechanic bug that supercharges my fel rush to my death.
Eyebeam targets resetting eyebeam cd was some of the most fun I had in this game. Kara pulls in Legion with the legendary helm were peak xD.
I hate vengeful retreat. More specifically, tactical retreat, which is a required node. It's ridiculous that a rotation requires you to rotate your camera 180 and backflip through mobs, then immediately eye beam. It's cumbersome, clunky, and often sends us into pools of death. I know that there are many issues, but this one really gets to me!
When you are right you are right
This and multi stack of short dps amps. I don't mind fel rushing, but VR, sigil, essb + inertia it's just too much for a very little payoff.
edit*ahh forgot about Eye Beam add it in there as well lol
Yep
@majk1908 additionally, if the window gets interrupted by a mechanic or boss moves out of range then we get screwed.
I agree that Havoc needs to be split into 2 dps specs. One that can remain movement focused for those who enjoy it and the other to reflect more how Illidan fights? he never zips and flips around like how Havoc is designed to be. He went toe to toe with Arthas. And all the movement stuff is why I cant play havoc, I'm so monumentally uncoordinated when it comes to properly lining that stuff up I just don't bother and stick with Vengeance. I think if they do rework and split it like you said, maybe the new spec could be more in line with how Illidan fights, a sort of quicker ground and pound marauder that the community can enjoy as a whole "No Mover" spec rather than trying and hoping that a "No Mover" build will be viable within Havoc. And I really hate how we have to spend a talent point for Netherwalk it doesn't feel good, that should just be a baseline ability. Idk, that's my 2 cents on this I guess.
Your insights of the spec is better than that of jedith, I wish you can participate in more of the major platforms for havoc discussion.
I switched to ret paly and what a difference. How they let dh just be terrible all season is quite sad. You have to do way more work on dh for less reward. Not a fun equation and strongly suggest others try another class if you are disappointed in dh. I have lost hope on this season for DH, and hopefully we are strong next season.
my alt ret paly is 621 and i dont even know the right rotations but it beats my main dh havoc 633 on mythic + this is how fucked up this game is lol i guess someone in the dev hated Dh or Dh creator or they are just so dumb ~~~~~~~~~~
@@taliano6965Realz is the DH dev, hes a moron.
If midnight comes out and we don't get the void reaver spec , im gonna be pissed (ps: i think splitting havoc to 2 specs can be a solution but you know spending more time managing the tree and creating more nodes and removing the bad ones is the ideal fix imo )
Make our DF Season 3/4 tier bonus a talent! I love blade dance throwing glaives!!
I would love to see fel bombardment come back i had a lot of fun with it during the DF pre-patch
Movement Spec, Non-movement spec -> Specialize in either demon form and chaos strike, or in glaives and immo aura. It would make things so much better. Also, AR needs to not be about more damage windows... instead just REALLY lean in to glaives like Fel Scarred leans into Demon form
know your enemy needs to be baseline imo. And a proper cd reduction on eye beam. Would make it fun for me
Well put voodoo. I'd love to see more race choices. I've played belf for a long time and nelf as well, I'm so bored of it. I really hope they start to open the door for us like they did for monk and death knight. If Haranir cant be DH I'll be so sad.
@@Rockforce80 Tauren DH when
I wish reaver was more tuned to slashing skills like ret or fury not some glaive throwing
1 - Get rid of Inertia so we don't ever need to hold Immo Aura;
2 - Rework Momentum: Your next Eye Beam deals guaranteed critical strike damage (no time cap). This way movement for damage is not as impactful, but it's still rewarding dps wise if you do it right.
@@riiann I think the reward for movement has to be more impactful than that, although I like your train of thought.
Making immo 20s unhasted would work as well for inertia
I really wanna see DH do good :( it was my first class when I started playing WoW, I still love it, but it just makes me feel bad when I see my DH dps compared to my enhance, retri or even evoker...
@@Korvinusz03 same. There’s just a lot wrong with it right now and we’ve just been left to rot recently. I didn’t even talk about tuning AT ALL in this video but we are tuned pretty horribly, especially compared to the effort we have to put in
@@VooDooSaurus Absolutely yes, and also, a new dps spec would be so good... I really don't think it's so much to ask xD maybe a range non-caster spec, kinda like hunter but with fel and stuff
I really hope to see some change for season 2 atleast but I kinda doubt that 😕
The biggest problem with Demon Hunter is the lack of a third spec-it kills variety. Look at Warriors: Arms is great for PvP, Fury shines in PvE, and they can swap roles. With Demon Hunters, it’s just Havoc, unless you want to tank. There’s no flexibility.
The spec feels like a double-edged sword. Sometimes it works, but most of the time, it’s just boring. I play DH in PvP, and the rotation hasn’t changed since Legion. It’s the same 2-3 buttons over and over, with the occasional Eye Beam or The Hunt. It gets stale so fast.
Blade Dance could be so much cooler. Imagine it being a 2-click ability-first click does damage, second adds a root or stun. Or in Meta, it could turn into a chain attack that pulls enemies or sends out fel waves with every spin. Stuff like that would make the rotation way more engaging.
And where’s the fun utility? Give us something like a Shadow Veil-turn untargetable for a second and leave a shadow explosion behind. It fits the class fantasy and would add depth.
Right now, Havoc feels too flat. A third spec and better-designed abilities would bring life back to Demon Hunters.
I feel like they missed a good chance with hero talents to make one that focuses on meta and one that doesnt let you meta and buffs ur other abilities. Although I feel like making the throw glaive on blade dance could have been a talent aswell. If there was a 20s cd on eyebeam this opener would still be pain to use, but it atleast would fix the issue waiting so long to actually pop off. Im actually scared how it will look next tier cause of the good bonuses we have now will be gone and replaced by another set and this tiers set gives so huge amount of damage.
Personally i dont like the video on the left. Feels very subwaysurfery and since wow audience is usually older i dont think its a good vibe, more confusing than anything when you are trying to watch the talent tree at the same time
@@NordicBlueprint appreciate the feedback, figured I’d try something different for this rather than just have me talking for a half hour. But fair points.
@@VooDooSaurus Nothing wrong with experimenting :)
If a demon hunter is running higher keys it'll be as a vengeance spec.
Looks Can kill: make it baseline
Glaive tempest: make it is own node and make support for it like with Ret pally or fury warrior
Isolated prey: move all bonuses into the skills and make them baseline
Scars of Suffering remove.
Inititive: remove i hate it.
Move: tactical retreat
Critical chaos baseline
Fire inside move
Thats my opinion
@@Shindy117 lots of things that were baseline before that they made nodes for next to no reason just to fill up the tree that feel HORRIBLE to take
@VooDooSaurus like mastery increasing speed? I wish that stand baseline
i agre with you and most people about reworking and stuff but what do you think if they just increase damage of demon hunter. here and there they are buffing and nerfing numbers of other classes while for dh its nothing.
@@C0RPSEGRlNDER would certainly help but there’s large gaping holes and issues in our tree and a lot of our playstyle that have just been around for a year or so now that certainly should be addressed.
I've mentioned this in other places, but I'll also place it here:
1 - Our talents are based on Illidan from HotS, which is bad. He's a weak hero in HotS and that's not the original Illidan from WC3 who was a front-line bruiser.
2 - Cycle of Hatred and Shattered Destiny should be moved over to the left side so both Veng and Havoc can benefit as both would enjoy these talents. This would also free up talents on the right because we cannot take them and they are too weak for how deep in the tree they are.
3 - Havoc needs more non-long CD related abilities to function better in M+. We crush it when a tank can pull 20+ mobs all at once, but that isn't the norm. It's generally 2-3 packs each time and outside of EB + ESB on those packs, Havoc completely falls off the map. Back in Legion there was a set that gave Chaos Strike a natural cleave of like 10% of it's damage. That would go miles for M+.
I honestly believe fixing 2 & 3 would help Havoc stay competitive in higher M+ Keys. Raids it's fine. In Raids, all specs are within 10% from top to bottom, and I think that's pretty good. Even though Havoc is in the lower part of that, I'm totally okay with what they do there.
Blizzard get this guy on the payroll. MAKE HAVOC GREAT AGAIN!
Low utility moderate survivability and DPS as a tank. Decent utility and so-so DPS as havoc.
We're a 3% magic damage buff as a consolation prize for picking a sub optimal composition
@@Shearsss honestly our utility isn’t even THAT good when you look at what vengeance or other specs bring
@@VooDooSaurus true, i was being generous lol
TLDR. Replace/rework 70% of the tree. Btw AFI is a problem even if it gives you a fel rush proc. It promotes too much movement. Like you said our raid build has a healthy amount of movement. The M+ build is criminal, approaching Dragonflight season2 territory (old Isolated Pray)
@@FelFireGazeTV I think movement is much more tolerable in m+ as there are there much less restrictions on your movement in that environment, and the fel rushes actually do damage there
@@VooDooSaurus It is not about how strong movement is or isn't. There is a healthy amount of movement you can introduce to add flavor to the spec. Movement restricted encounters, such as AraKara last boss and COT 1st boss feel really bad to play on Havoc. And add ontop dungeons such as Brackenhide or Legacy of Tyr with tons of AOE cleaves and space denial which made our life miserable. Luckily the current dungeon pool is not like that. I like movement on Havoc, but currently (AFI + Volatile Transformation) it is too much in my opinion. I would like to at least see AFI be changed to a CDR for Immo Aura instead of this random proc, so movement windows are more evenly spread out. Still fel rushing 4+ times in the opener inbetween all other spells feels too much
@@FelFireGazeTV fair
make havoc great again😂
The MHGA hat would be purple, green and gold trim
It's no wonder havoc is at the bottom.
nah i just give up. Playing now ele shaman, blizzard never fix up this thing.
I want bfa dh back
Its my first season mythic raiding as DH. i cant wait to quit this class next season. Realz should be fired
shatteret desttny and fell barrage should get removed.
they are useless