China's June 4 Historian Wu Renhua: Official Lies, Liu Xiaobo's Strike, Chai Ling's Exit
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 พ.ค. 2024
- This year marks the 35th anniversary of the Tiananmen Square crackdown in China. In today's Chinese society, the truth and memory of history are deliberately suppressed, and many people have forgotten or do not care about June 4th. When the truth is not recorded, uncovered, and openly discussed, historical tragedies are bound to repeat countless times. Commemorating and discussing June 4th has never been more significant than it is today. Over the long span of 35 years, some Chinese people have persistently pursued the truth, tirelessly fulfilling their vows to pursue democracy and preserve the truth. On the eve of the 35th anniversary of June 4th, the Da Sheng team interviewed historical document scholar Wu Renhua, asking him to deeply discuss his life story and reflections as a seeker and narrator of the truth about June 4th, and to explore how each person should face the truth and pain in history and reality. They also discussed how to resist the suppression of historical truth by power. Wu Renhua is from Wenzhou, Zhejiang, and holds a master's degree in Chinese literature from Peking University. In 1989, he was a young teacher at the China University of Political Science and Law and participated throughout the 1989 democracy movement. On June 3rd, he led a special patrol team to Tiananmen Square and witnessed the entire clearance process. To preserve, record, and spread the truth, Wu Renhua voluntarily went into exile in 1990, giving up his teaching position. For 35 years, he has persistently organized, researched, and published documents on the truth about the June 4th crackdown. His works include "The Bloody Clearing of Tiananmen," "The Martial Law Troops in the June 4th Incident," and "The Complete Record of the June 4th Incident."
#China #Beijing #Tiananmen #JuneFourth #TiananmenIncident #Military #Crackdown #BeijingResidents #DengXiaoping #ChineseHistory #ZhaoZiyang #Stability #COVID #Students #Liu Xiaobo #University #Protests #WuRenhua #HongKong #Taiwan #ChinesePeople
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吴老师为了自己的信念坚持了一生，太让人佩服了！🙏
是啊，所以谈六四我们一定要听到吴老师的声音。
吴先生说的很好：杀人不是发展的必要条件。对历史和其它一切事物，应该只问事实不问动机。
感谢大声，感谢吴仁华先生，您们的节目澄清了很多事实，吴先生和学生在一起，为学生发声令人感佩，也让那些指责学生行动的“知识精英”们无地自容。给大声节目点赞👍，给吴薇点赞👍，给吴仁华先生点赞👍。各位保重！
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吴老师说的很对，最高贵的品质是勇气，没有之一，也正是这个民族最缺少的。
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大声姐请坚持，您将会成为油管中文顶流之一！
谢谢您！一定。💪
吴先生这样有良知的知识分子太稀缺了！感谢您！
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吴老师摆事实讲道理让人明白很多历史细节。而有些不怀好意的人对学生运动的扭曲真的令人不齿
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> 为什么年轻学生 二十岁学能第一时间站出来做学生领袖 因为有勇气 为什么比他们社会阅历或者学识更好的硕士生 博士生 不在第一时间站出来 **因为岁数越大 阅历越多 就更知道政治后果的严重性** 所以到了学运高潮 绝食以后 才陆续有硕士生 博士生站出来 这就是我说的 **第一时间站出来的唯一的条件就是勇气** 不要谈学识 不要谈政治智慧 不要谈政治判断 你能怪到他们吗 那你知识分子比他们学识高 比他们政治判断力强 为什么你不站出来带头 你为什么不像我这样
>
所以能认清自己可能遭受的悲惨命运还依然决然站出来的人才是真的伟大。
让我想起了白纸时候 最开始站出来的是什么类型的人--不是信息浏览最多的计算机从业者，不是经常网上冲浪的老反贼，而是对共产党历史和手段了解不多的”文艺青年“、”留学生“群体，很多人在事后也后悔了自己的所作所为。而任何政治运动恐怕冲在最前面的也都将是这一类人
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一向尊敬吴仁华老师。对“精英知识分子”的批评和对“改革派”的质疑，很有启发，重要。
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不知道吴老师原来有这么强的表达能力。吴老师应该早出来说话的。
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89年我才5岁。今年都40了，中年人了。那时候只是隐约记得有这么一件事。虽然中学毕业后一直不断摸索当年真相。但是知道的还是太有限了。感谢有这么一档节目以及当时人现身说法。让我们后辈知道民主的重要性以及当年民运先驱者做出的贡献。
感谢你真诚的分享！
又快到那一天了，勇士与坦克
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1986年底做了大讨论的准备，但没有统一思想，没有主义，缺少组织和宣传（很多假新闻），与五四前后的革命运动不是一个级别。
温文尔雅的老师都忍不住蹦出几个粗词，能感觉到吴老先生平和的叙述里隐藏着多年的情感，委屈，不甘甚至是愤怒。历史不应该忘记，历史也不会忘记，非常好的访谈，期待下一集。
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假如它们这些人成功了，美国就不会打压中国吗？或者中国的实力能发展成这样吗？
感谢大声的提问，感谢吴仁华老师的分析和回答，厘清了不少可能从30年纪念开始充斥在网上的问题/伪问题。希望有更多人能看到！
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谢谢吴老师的详细梳理！还好有这样大写的人！
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这么重的担子，一背就是三十五年，真是赤子之心。希望吴老师能多笑笑，至少多说几句去他大爷的。
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感谢大声姐🍺🍺🍺
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致敬吳老師對歷史真相的態度，感謝吳老師將歷史和現在進行對比。吳老師娓娓道來讓我們更好保持清醒
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解释了我所有的疑问和困惑！感谢采访，感谢吴老师！
谢谢！祝愿吴老师健康长寿用您的记忆书写真实的历史！让更多的年轻人了解当年的真实情况！
吳老師的絕大部分觀點都非常贊同，唯一想討論的點是，當時學生領袖的做法肯定也是有瑕疵有不妥的地方，需要拿出來理性討論（不是指責埋怨）。當然我能理解這種情緒和應激反應，這需要更多的耐心和同理心，才能讓事情和認知往前走。最後感謝大聲姐的專業，謝謝您。🙏
對暴政而言，哪怕只是跪的姿勢不對，都會成為他使用暴力的藉口。
苛責八九學運(民運)導致天安門屠殺悲劇是不道德的，首先痛下殺手的不是學生與人民，而是黨中央與其劊子手部隊，指責受害者而不批判加害者，是一種從根本上的價值混淆。
如同一些愚昧的百姓，指責一個被侵害的女性穿著不檢點，為何走夜路云云，而不指責施加暴力的惡徒，這種因果顛倒的混亂時至今日還是偶有可見，實在是很悲哀。
第二個容易造成誤會的就是認為民主化是可以一蹴可及，只差一步就可以成功，何不見好就收，這些都是從根本上就對民主化的推動有完全誤解的。
以台灣民主化運動為例，民主化從來不是靠著某位偉大領袖的善意而成的，如同現在很多中國人、海外華僑甚至台灣人都繼續歌頌蔣經國。不要忘記，是蔣經國政府作繭自縛一而再再而三動用暴力，最後江南案引爆世界的輿論壓力，迫使蔣經國放權，否則至今台灣很可能還是蔣家王朝。
而整個民主化運動，從二二八事件到橋頭事件、美麗島事件以及過程中無數的人奉獻自己的青春汗水，甚至犧牲自己的幸福、未來乃至生命，是一波接著一波不間斷的民主運動抗爭才促成逼迫政府妥協的局面，而每一場抗爭都沒有人認為一次就能成功，而是永遠都在計畫下一場抗爭。
爭取民主，需要的是薪火相傳，是一代接著一代的信念傳承。
如果繼續抱持著對偉大領袖的崇拜，那麼推翻後建立的依然是下一個暴政。
八九學運是成功的，他成為幾代人心中代表爭取自由民主的渴望。
八九學運是失敗的，暴力鎮壓後，社會的聲音被消失、被妥協了，民主浪潮就這樣平息了。
我相信中國會走向真正的自由與民主，中國年輕一代只是在等待那個時機，民主運動永遠都是仰賴當代的青年群眾，只有他們有純粹的信念與一腔熱血，而這些勇敢青年的背後，需要的是長輩、先輩們的支持與經驗。
感谢您的分享和直言！🙏
很好的节目！
欢迎常来！🤝
感谢吴老师的记录，没有这些记录，我们想知道真相的墙内人都不知道该去哪里找到真相
专业。
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谢谢🎉
您好快啊！🙏
We are never able to blame people who are so bravo.
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向吴老师致敬❤
看了这么多关于六四的节目，吴老师真是让我倍感钦佩！吴老师真侠士！
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这几天在看 李锐那些书 ，看得很难受。吴老师的书估计以后会慢慢看，现在得缓缓。吴老师这类工作者更多的让我很敬佩。我是属于知道“六四”这个事情，但是不清楚具体发生了什么事情的九零后，其实朋友也问，知道了有意义嘛？对你现世的生活并无好处。实话说我也不知道为什么，但是我只能随心。感谢，薇姐和吴老师 祝安。❤
感谢你真诚的分享！吴老师说了，忘记历史悲剧还会重演！
@@dashengmedia 吴老师说的对，忘记历史不反思不追责，灾难随时再来，三年封城也是维稳模式下的镇压。
吴老师是个很真诚的人！
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感谢你的作品
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也请提供完整版。。。谢谢！
好的，会有完整版。采访量很大，主要有六四事实和吴老师人生两大部分，都很精彩！到时我们会有分别完整的呈现。
@@dashengmedia非常感谢！加油！ 支持…
向吴老师致敬🫡
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这个采访又让我知道了更全面
受教。
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讲得真好！致敬吴老师！
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觀念非常正確，不愧是有良知的學者。
王局最新一期谈六四和刘晓波的节目，让人气不打一出来，就是本视频26:30秒开始讨论的问题，希望大声姐能够大声地反对王局这个“大外宣”：th-cam.com/video/1i5yQTRcjls/w-d-xo.htmlsi=PndA5wibLF18bqkQ 个人认为王局犯了以下几个“常识”错误：
1. 预设部队别无选择：把戒严部队六点钟必须清场，当作理所当然的合理预设条件，对共产党指挥全副武装的军队镇压收手无寸铁的学生和市民的行为表达潜在的同情和理解，是不可接受的！大声访谈吴仁华老师的节目中提到，六四事件中也有38集团军军长徐勤先拒绝镇压，清场部队严格执行杀人任务就合理？这里王局的观点还是和其不明白播客采访的时候对彭立发的观点如出一辙：“聪明人”不能以卵击石，对中共统治者的任何强力反抗都是徒劳。
2. 完美受害者假设：学生领袖有错误、学生抗议不完美，但是这些和共产党对学生和市民屠杀比，哪个更需要反思？没有完美的运动，失败是要总结复盘，但是这种对部分学运领袖的批判，是否对多数参与运动的学生、市民、工人，是不公平的？学生领袖多大成度上主导了运动的发展？
3. 避重就轻，忽视六四惨案的死难：天安门广场学生撤离、并没有大规模伤亡，并不代表六四事件的伤亡不惨重。六部口惨案灯历史事件是最好的例证。
请问王局不是“大外宣”这是什么？？？
@dashengmedia
我儿时见过崇文门外（南） 花市路口过街天桥吊着的那个烧焦的人 具体样子记忆已经模糊 场景却记得
卡玛是故意的、随意剪辑，其心可诛。
吴先生讲得非常实事求是👍
很喜欢大声姐的访谈，客观，中立，你讲一讲美国国内现在对以色列是什么态度，什么想法吗？
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尊敬
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吴老说的勇气 也可以理解成勇敢 或者说就是一样的 的确是最可贵的
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人类与强权的斗争，就是记忆与遗忘的斗争。
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尼采说：只有有勇气的人才能获得真正的爱情💓；
同理可以说：之于自由与梦想、没有勇气和信心，什么都不可能拥有。
🎉🎉🎉
吴老师为了做事，坚决地放弃了爱情。🙏
吴老师有一颗慈悲心
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38:48 吳仁華老師責問的好, 太好了, 建議這段剪出來做成小視頻, 我們好大力傳播.這就是典型地受害者有罪論, 不去譴責加害者,不去追問罪責, 只是站在自己精英上位者的立場上評判,不殘忍嗎 ? 所謂知識分子的良知何在?
第一时间站出来的不是勇气，而是幼稚。也有些人想政治投机。
很遗憾，在墙内无法买到吴老师的书
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很可贵的节目，另外，真心求教，国内怎样才能买到吴老师的书？
您觉得中国政府能允许吴老师的书出现吗
@@dashengmedia哎
「報道」出現在字幕 大聲姐了不起的工作大打折扣 為甚麼
1點擊「新」字自動出現「聞報導」
2台灣公私媒體全部用「報導」
3前輩記者創始「報導」合符實際
4「媒體姓党」始甪「報道」
..
41:28 憑什麽? 這些青年人連自己的生命都付出去的代價, 憑什麽可以去指責評判他們? 這些上位者有什麽立場可以開這樣的上帝視角?
关于非暴力不合作，不能拿这个当作所有抗议的标准，这个说法因为安全美好，有点佛教的感觉，获得大众的支持，但其实佛教没有教别人不抵抗，比如佛教也说一杀多生，再比如美国的独立战争，难道不是通过暴力成功的吗，所以吴老师说的因果逻辑很重要
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Where there are protagonists, villains and buffoons are indispensable. The reason why these characters are indispensable is that their social existence is the indispensable villain in the drama of social class struggle. Without them vying for the first place, taking the lead, standing out and becoming the enemy of the people, what would happen? Show the great ambition and achievements of heroes? "Only through comparison can we identify, and through identification and struggle can we develop." Villains are indeed good negative teachers. We must thank them for their determination to sacrifice themselves and fight with the broad masses of the people to the end, because class struggle without going through the hardships and bloodshed sacrifices of the people is just an incomplete and incomplete class struggle. How can we achieve final victory in the struggle? The working masses, who make up the majority of the people, are the backbone or material force of their revolution. Therefore, the masses are not just spectators in the audience or passive and passive beings, but active and active forces that keep pace with the characters on the stage. The relationship between them is that of fish and water. We can say this: there are people on stage as there are people.
The May 4th Movement was not a critical activity in a study room. On the contrary, it was a mass revolutionary movement. Even though it was not necessarily huge, it opened the way and pointed the direction for subsequent mass movements, which was to "eliminate national traitors from within, The direction of the anti-imperialist, anti-feudal, and revolutionary movement is the battle cry of "resist foreign power". Therefore, the slogans of the May 4th youth masses are not limited to democracy and science (Mr. De and Mr. Sai) but democracy, science, and the masses (Mr. De, Mr. Sai, and Mr. Ma are Democracy, Science and Masses, that is, they must have a social class perspective) . Of course, the limitations of its era cannot be completely avoided. For example, while the anti-imperialist and anti-feudal revolutions were carried out, they were tainted with the old habits of the old democratic revolution period - a formal and hypocritical democratic system that tended to follow the Western parliamentary path, and even The young people were misled and took the wrong path, causing great harm. Fortunately, the October Revolution awakened the young people who were at the forefront to correct the shortcomings of the old democratic revolution. From then on, we could establish the ideological and political foundation for the correct direction of development - the new democratic revolution. This is the May Fourth Movement. The movement has risen from a simple path of national salvation to a brand-new revolutionary mass movement path guided by the theory and practice of class struggle.
As we all know, the path of revolution is tortuous, and setbacks and repetitions of revolutionary attacks are inevitable. The history of social class struggle has never shown the case or possibility of a straight revolutionary path and a once-and-for-all revolution. Sure enough, Chiang Kai-shek, who accepted the funding, guidance, and orders from the Jiangsu-Zhejiang Consortium, soon launched a coup on April 12, 1927, betraying the three major policies advocated by Mr. Sun Yat-sen and cooperating with the Kuomintang and the Communist Party to jointly oppose imperialism, warlords, and traitors in the great revolution. They brazenly massacred their former revolutionary allies (the revolutionary pioneer and the earliest Chinese Marxist Li Dazhao was executed by the government of Beiyang warlord Zhang Zuolin on April 28 of the same year) and embarked on the path of no return for the reactionaries.
After many years of bloody struggle by the former Kuomintang reactionaries, the real CCP under the leadership of Chairman Mao achieved initial victory and established a socialist country under the dictatorship of the proletariat. However, the good times did not last long. The bureaucratic comprador bourgeoisie and their predecessors as capitalist roaders, who accepted the coercion and inducement of internal and external enemies, usurped the party and power through military coups. In the end, Deng Xiaoping, the founder of Chinese revisionism, usurped the proletarian power. To this day, their ghosts still linger. scattered. Prior to this, although the revolutionary mass movement struggled hard for ten years during the First Cultural Revolution, just like the May Fourth Movement, which was defeated by the class enemy Kuomintang reactionaries, the Cultural Revolution also suffered setbacks and repetitions, and its success and failure were due to ideological and political problems. The loyal heirs of the former Kuomintang reactionaries whose line is fascist - the characteristic party kleptocratic group or the fake CCP. The fake CCP here should be the Chinese Special Party (CSP), a counter-revolutionary party controlled and owned by hundreds of party-state families. They have stolen hundreds of billions of dollars in hard-earned money from the country and the people.
The Cultural Revolution, a great political revolution by the proletariat against the Kuomintang reactionaries, and the great May Fourth Movement a hundred years ago are in the same vein and are not unrelated to each other. The future Second Cultural Revolution will inherit the great May Fourth Movement and the First Cultural Revolution, and will be the followers and completers of the unfinished work of the predecessors.
Due to the perverse and unpopular behavior of Deng and his gang, a bloody small-scale revolutionary activity broke out thirty years ago on June 4, 1989, referred to as June Fourth. June Fourth should be divided into two stages. In the first stage, students, workers, and citizens in Beijing launched demonstrations in Tiananmen Square to oppose official downfall, corruption, and capital embezzlement. The activities at this stage had a certain degree of revolutionary potential. It can even be said that after the failure of the first Cultural Revolution However, during the second stage of the June 4th demonstrations, the direction of the struggle of the working masses was distorted and shifted by some students from revolution to bourgeois reformism, seriously changing the meaning and nature of the revolution. What Deng and his gang want to suppress is not the handful of bourgeois reformist students, because the CSP gang itself has always advocated internal suppression and external surrender (the United States). The reformist students are their allies and by no means their enemies. . Their enemies are the workers and citizens as well as the majority of the revolutionary-leaning student masses who oppose the capitalist roaders. However, on the morning of June 4th, no matter what opinions the people in the square held-revolutionary or reformist, progressive or conservative-they were suppressed by the CSP troops. This revolutionary activity was quickly condemned by the common emperor of Deng's thieves and reformist students - American hegemony and its reactionary allies, who acted like judges and ignored everything. To this day, the remnants of bourgeois reformism still claim to be the only heroes who were suppressed in June 4th, excluding the majority of workers, citizens and revolutionary students who truly made sacrifices for upholding their beliefs.
Due to the forty years since Deng, Jiang, and Hu Xi's Fourth Revision, the reformist heroes' awareness of class existence has been at an all-time low, and they have a profound lack of understanding of the theory of class struggle. As a result, they mistakenly elevated the class position of the working people to that of the middle class, and then again To cling to the bourgeoisie, to mentally resolve the pain of being exploited and oppressed into expectations and even high hopes for the improvement of the bourgeois ruling policies. This kind of self-flagellation and self-abasement is very surprising, but it is a political reality, and it is also one of the important reasons why the official buying bourgeoisie has been able to sit firmly on the fishing boat for forty years. In addition, because they were deceived by the trick of claiming to be the Communist Party by the Reformed Church, they actually equated the true Communist Party led by Chairman Mao with it, and then responded to the counterrevolutionary teachings of the leader Deng Xiaoping: wantonly slandering and slandering Chairman Mao and the true Communist Party and his theory and practice of continuing revolution, namely the First Cultural Revolution and the future Second Cultural Revolution. These people urgently need to wake up to their wrongdoings, and the sooner the better, otherwise, they will be washed into the gutter by the historical trend with no way out.
From the standpoint of commemorating the great May 4th revolutionary movement, the historical revolutionary trend is as follows: May 4th, socialist revolution and construction, the first cultural revolution, the first stage of June 4th, the second cultural revolution... This is what today's revolution is like. As humans, we must commemorate the true meaning of May Fourth.
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凌霜23 hours ago
何时反共人士民主人士有识之士能够跳出爱国天然是对的这个窠臼，明确宣布我不爱国，一个奴役民众的国家我们不但不该爱，还必须要想方设法毁了这个国，亡了这个国。一旦我们的认识上升到这个高度，我们的眼前将一片开阔，共党也再难以用爱国来忽悠民众。
我们一定要明白，在专制国家，爱国就是爱政府，因为专制国家是三位一体的，政体等于国体，都有一个绝对的老大，而不是像民主国家那样政体小于国体，没有绝对的老大。在专制国家，党就是国，政府就是国，朕即国家是所有专制国家的本质特征，在这种国家，你爱国就是爱政府，如果是商纣王时代，你爱国就是爱商纣王，你反抗外国侵略就是维护商纣王的统治，因为你打败了外国入侵者，最受益的就是商纣王。岳飞爱国就是爱赵家王朝，岳飞反抗金人入侵，最受益的就是赵家王朝。
REPLY
Mark Wain1 minute ago (edited)
爱国一词无论中外都具有阶级意涵，但是这往往被人们忽略了。例如，民主灯塔的总统特朗普自称是爱国主义者和民族主义者，但是他的爱国对象绝对不会是劳动人民将来必定要实行社会主义的美国，而是而且仅仅是反对社会主义、为资产阶级独裁统治下去而斗争的资本主义美国。他的民族主义对象绝不是渴望从资本霸权主义暴力统治下翻身解放的被压迫民族，而是以资产阶级为主的剥削和压迫民族。现在中国的一般爱国群众也一样爱的仅是当前官僚买办资产阶级统治下的这个半殖民地资本主义或称改开教国家。真正的即阶级的爱国对象不是现在而是未来的人民民主专政的中国。一般群众喊爱国口号，却不加引申或解释，在实际上应当把这些口号改正为歌颂无产阶级专政下继续革命的中国的口号，反对当前的倒行逆施的、修正主义的改开教旧中国，迎接并未来的继续革命下的新中国的口号。
凌霜14 minutes ago
@Mark Wain 社会主义就是奴隶制，所有的共产党统治的国家都是奴隶制。 人民民主专政就是奴隶主对全国民众灭绝人性
Mark Wain
这显然是不公允的也是含混不清的，因为社会主义将从资本主义枷锁中解放被资本剥削和压迫的劳动群众，而后当家作主，怎么会是奴隶制？雇佣奴隶制准确地说仅仅指的是资本主义而不是社会主义更不是共产主义。参看：www.marxists.org/chinese/pdf/marx-engels/mea01.pdf www.marxists.org/chinese/pdf/marx-engels/mea02.pdf 或 www.marxists.org/chinese/pdf/marx-engels/mes01.pdf 及 www.marxists.org/chinese/pdf/marx-engels/mes02.pdf 看完后必有极大的收获。此外，我们一定要反对：习修胡说什么“（特色法西斯）党政军民学，东西南北中，（特色法西斯）党是领导一切的。”[Mark Wain 2019-05-01]
Mark Wain1 second ago [th-cam.com/video/ngKFEVpVI1Q/w-d-xo.html]
不要忘记习近平代表的阶级是官僚买办资产阶级，利益是官买资产阶级的利益，因此他召开的各式各样的对内、对外大会无不是为官买资产阶级寻求利益的。正如商业资本家要花钱做广告、大吹大擂自己的商品如何高超、价廉物美，习近平作为官买的政治代表就不得不花大力气为官买做政治广告；被迫不断发言、演讲、开会、出访、接见等等，否则他的位置很可能被人取而代之。习近平身在江湖，不得不做出被人耻笑甚至发指的勾当和言论（这些未必是他认可的，但是对CSP统治集团的集体意志，他即使反对也无可奈何）。人称习近平是皇帝，这只是表面看法，实际上他只是个傀儡皇帝，垂帘的后面有着多少虎狼一般的官买资本饿鬼等着习近平把他们的利润最大化、再最大化...以至无穷。
[Mark Wain 2019-05-03 写在伟大五四革命运动一百周年的前夜；发布于2019-05-05 伟大的哲学家、无产阶级革命导师卡尔•马克思诞辰]
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liuyedao wenrou12 hours ago
六四就是因为邓小平放纵腐败，导致青年不满，又被居心叵测的资产阶级右派利用，煽风点火，导致恶性事件，眼看收拾不住，就镇压。这就好比老邓自己玩儿火，眼看要烧房子了，只好自己嗤了一泡尿浇灭了。
Bianca Yao15 hours ago
不论东方西方包括美国，资本来到世上都是肮脏的。
Michael Fu18 hours ago
（在六四这天，）父母从老家打来电话，各种娱乐场所全部被关门，连棋牌室都关了，出租车司机都拉不到生意。
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五四精神星火相传6 hours ago
左派？佳仕工人维权的时候，你们口中的左派在哪里？没有无产阶级支持的也能叫左派？
有枪声，但是看不到直接拿枪对着人开的画面
节目接近一半的时候，主持人把柴玲说成了柴静😂……
口误，前后都是对的☺
當年學校游行出校门，我正好骑摩托路过校门口，趁机也参加一份，这个时间刚刚好；不多不少，如此在学校学到知识，倒不如行一下万里路，这裡边只要有校团部领头，让我们没有啥類移动公司😂的人过吧隐！
给柴玲洗地😅
勿忘64！
有字幕么，实在听不懂了
有的。请您打开CC字幕。
浙江口音吗……
你们那些西方的老板对你们当年做的事失败失望了
我想，许多知识精英们对学生没有“见好就收”的批评并非是指责学生为什么没有做的更好，而是将整个事件作为非暴力抗争的研究素材进行理性分析。学生们能够冒这么大的风险站出来已经很不容易了。分析与假设的目的是为了在未来能做的更好。如果没有对整个运动进行反思，吸取经验教训，就没有可能在下一次抗争中做得更好，未来在类似的抗争运动中很可能会重蹈原来的覆辙。如果在未来的抗争过程中，抗争者能事先多了解并掌握学者总结的非暴力不合作运动的战略思想与技巧，而不是在意一时的得失（如因为担心参与运动而被当局清算的风险而从天安门广场撤退），诸如六四这样的惨剧也许很大程度上能得到避免，也更可能成功。如同行军打仗，提前的谋划是非常重要的。遗憾的是，当时的中国刚刚解禁一些书籍，人们并没有了解很多与非暴力不合作运动有关的知识。从历史中借鉴经验，达到我们最终的目标与理想和记住屠杀一样重要。
你想太多，甘地面對的是文明人，是大英帝國，你們中國人面對的是共產黨，你去跟甘地學合理非經驗純粹是找死。難道你指望手上沒兵且自身也是老共產黨的趙紫陽奪權成功然後你們突然就得到民主自由了？六四如果真的有值得反思的，那也是對共產黨有不切實際的判斷和期待，唯一成功的機會就是一開始就真的做成反革命暴亂，把老畜生們挂起來，宣佈共產黨非法，然後抱緊美國大腿順勢戒嚴，暗地裏清算三代共產黨員。然而現實是那個時間點的國際和國内局勢完全沒提供任何條件使得上述事情發生，抗爭者的能力和見識都不可能讓他們明白這些，換言之，提供這些條件的社會從一開始就不可能讓共產黨寄生成功，你能想象美國紅脖子有一天會放共產黨上臺嗎？所以運動的悲劇性從一開始就注定了，你不能怪這些人沒有做更好，他們從來就沒有那個機會。
挂路灯也讲讲啊
军队不向老百姓开枪，没人会被挂路灯。
感谢邓公和习总的决断，中国和香港回复了平静
那几个领头的都在国外潇洒 只有被鼓动的学生们白白流血 没什么好说的吧
尊重吴的历史研究，但是吴对经济有研究吗？经济发展派不认为8964是政改的时间，韩国台湾等都是威权下经济发展才进行政改，当时贫穷的中国搞政改就是灾难
不管怎么说，你们是怎么逃出去了？这是所有问题所在！
大声姐什么时代了还在BB六四？假的真不了！俗话说宁生穷命不要穷相，大声姐就长的一脸苦大愁深像最好音播不要露脸，要不观众有不舒适感影响收视率啊。
采訪者顯然是有立場的....尾巴不小,有點兒内神魔哈
六四事件領導人表現實在糟糕，說謊太容易被識破，柴玲哭喊共軍坦克車壓過帳篷⛺天安門廣場血流成河，正常思維的人都知道是假話
吳老師對李鵬和菁英知識分子的評價和批評是對的，但對中國而言，短期看他們是殘忍的，長期看中國人穩定的環境給中國經濟發展帶來機會，人民生活得到極大改善，也是現在多數中國老百姓慶幸吾爾凱西之流沒有上台
您后半句说法吴老师第一集有分析。
@@dashengmedia 我看了，吳老師對維穩後的中國分析很有道理，完全讚同，只是對六四真相依然一頭霧水，不知道誰說是真話
@@user-cj7xs9qb1v 您别急，看后续，吴老师都讲了，他只说有证据的话，我们采访了两天，内容很多，不可能一个片子都放下。
@@dashengmedia 一個很大問題是吳老師對證據認定時間有誤，比如吳老師認定市民反抗實在解放軍開槍之後，實際上網絡上有許多影片證明在6.3之前市民就扣押軍人搶奪了槍支，這些證據比吳老師說的更有說服力
@@user-cj7xs9qb1v 你完全可以拿出证据写书，谁在什么时间什么地点因为什么原因抢了哪位士兵的炝，像吴老师这样发表文章。正常讨论大家欢迎，我想吴老师也欢迎大家拿出新的资料来。