I’ll keep repeating this, Lùthien is the most awesome badass in the history of Arda. Humiliating both Sauron and Morgoth in rapid succession is an unparalleled feat. Oh, and she also gave the sons of Fëanor a lesson in humility, which for sure doesn’t hurt.
Same Martin Shaw's is pretty good but lacks a little something id imagine RD version would be like Phil Dragash's lord if the rings just complete passion
I mean were I in Beren's place I'd have tried at the other silmarils too. Not for greed, but returning with all three of them would have dealt an immense blow to Morgoth and could have resolved the oath of Feanor for good. Not trying for it would've been like being the first to successfully climb the everest and stopping a dozen feet short of the tip cause you felt accomplished already.
Of the thousands of videos if watched over the years, yours are the ONLY ones I watch the ads during. That's how great I find your content. Thank for your passion and love.
These vids give me something to look forward to during my drive home from work when they show up. They also make the crazy complex legendarium of Tolkien much more accessible...give me a way to share these awesome epic stories with my friends and family.
I came across your channel a couple of months ago after reading LotR as a teenager and loving the films as a young adult. Your videos inspired me to reread LotR and read the Silmarillion for the first time. I’m not sure I would get through it if I didn’t have your channel as a companion piece. I’ve come back to this by way of some English history and old Norse lit. I can see the fingerprints of both on his work (like this has some echoes of Tyr and the wolf Fenrir) and realizing that was his area of expertise kind of makes me love all three things (the medieval history, the Eddas and the Legendarium) all that much more because I can see how they all a part of the same lovely tree.
Beren: I've done it. Elu Thingol: Nonsense, you don't have a Silmaril! Beren: Not at all, you required that I take it from Morgoth and bring it to your realm in my hand. Technically, if you check the northern borders of your land, you'll find a horrible beast driven to madness. Inside that beast is my hand. In that hand? The Silmaril.
The fun part about oaths that I love in The Legenderium. Technically the oath was fulfilled when he arrived. Beren went out of his way to retrieve it with Thingol and the others after the fact.
I LOVE your narrative skills my friend, RD. I've put your channel on the radar of some of my family members and friends and they too adore your presentations. Thank-you, so very much! Even though I know this story pretty much by heart, I certainly look forward to your next installment!
Well once again Rainbow Dave, excellent job. What an incredible story! The way you pull together all the threads of various editions of Tolkeins writings is EPIC! and Genius. LOVE IT.
Mae govannen. Excellent video, Dave of Many Colours. Your background music is excellent, appropriately chosen and placed as the different songs evoke different emotions that your audience is supposed to feel when learning about different stories in your videos. Not many Tolkien content creators do this. Most of them would just stick to one song in a video, disregarding the feel of the stories. You’ve taken a cinematic approach in your background music which contributed to better immersion in the stories. I can’t stress enough how much I love this. Speaking of Harry Potter, Carcharoth sounds remarkably similar to Karkaroff the Headmaster of Durmstrang, no? 😉 Novaer!
I've had Nightfall in Middle-Earth and The Silmarillion in my possession for about 20 years or so, and it still took me until this video to realise what the scene on the album cover actually was. I feel both stupid and enlightened at the same time.
wow..Lùthien really is amazing and and total badass as well as wonderful. How Tolkien really emphasises the strength and power of true love, as well as true courage and loyalty..to each other (as Tolkien and Edith were to each other). Also, well narratated/dramatasised by Dave and you feel like you are right there with them.
I am really enjoying all of your series I have read The Silmarillion several times and listened to the audio book but with these series I can relate to all the characters loving it 🙂
Show me a Dark Lord in any other fiction that holds a candle to Morgoth if you can. What a wicked, vile powerful foe. As a villain lover there are few bad guys (Sauron being one) that I could read about all day.
Same! Villains are such a big part of many stories. In some occasions, no matter how wicked they are, i just can't hate them lol. Probably because well-written people are generally harder to hate, and altough i'm way too much of a softie to read in-depth about Morgoth or Sauron, they're definetly two of my favorite characters in fiction Edit: if someone comes at me judging my moral compass- it seems obvious that most villain fans aren't fans of the villains' actions (i mean of course now) nor probably their thinking process, just about any other aspect of the character.
Putting myself in Beren’s place, my reasoning for trying to take all three Silmarils instead of just one is to put a quick end to the War of the Jewels. With that said, that probably wasn’t his top priority so maybe just projection
I don't think Beren wanted to take all three of the Silmarils out of greed. It's not as though he wanted them for himself. I think maybe he thought that Morgoth shouldn't have them though and he would've denied them all to Morgoth if he could have.
and also, the kind of guy who was willing to go on this quest finds himself actually cutting the greatest jewels ever made out of the helmet of the most powerful being ever created. i would be shocked if he stopped at just one and thought 'sweet lets go back'
13:08. Always good to see the Blind Guardian album cover as part of the artwork included in uour videos lol. 24:50. The interesting thing about that greek prefix is that when Thomas More wrote the word Utopia he meant it as a joke. As the word can be read as You-topia meaning good place Nd Oo-topia meaning place that can't exist!!
"don't eat the shiny stone that burns all evil thing or draw 25 (and suffer immense pain)" ... and now please imagine carcharoth with 25 cards and the silmaril burning in his body from the inside
🌈 Dave!! I’m only into the first few minutes and I just had to pause and write! You are speaking about Carcharoth and I was reminded how George RR Martin rather disses Tolkien for essentially being too wholesome. Yeah, there may not be sex scenes in the Legendarium (that a newbie like me knows of anyway) but Tolkien definitely didn’t shy away from some seriously grisly, tragic and violent content. Time to get back to your video. I hope your Friday is going wonderfully! 😄Thanks for being a highlight in my Fridays, too!!
@@EdoDoe613 At least the old English guy uses archaic euphemisms like "ravished" rather than going into too much detail, unlike George RR Martin. However, depending on the version of the tale that you read, the story gets even darker still in some versions. In one, Arien after being raped by Morgoth falls into the Sea and dies; in another her hurt is so great that she forsakes her body and dies, leaving the Sun to fly unguided for a time, burning parts of Arda. In both versions, Eönwë (the Chief Maia and Herald of the Valar) loved Arien and her terrible fate is one of the motivators that drive him to attack and overthrow Morgoth personally during the War of Wrath.
@@sweeperboy Gosh! That is really dark. Also, I agree wholeheartedly with you! As a woman, that is a monstrous violence I’d prefer not to have details on. (In the interviews I’ve heard Martin speak of Tolkien, he sometimes sounds dismissive but I think that’s wholly unfair and wrong.) As our 🌈 Dave said, that passage was not added to “The Silmarillion” so is obviously seems like something Tolkien changed his mind about officially including. Until I stumbled on this channel, I knew very little of the books outside of “LOTR” and “The Hobbit” and I’m blown away by the intricate, dimensional, expansive, powerful, horrible and beautiful mythology that wonderful man composed that we STILL are discussing and enjoying!
I know you didn't say this so I don't mean this as a correction, but the Great Eagles don't "just show up" and people who claim this is a deus ex machina in the movies and books are wrong. Varda can hear the whole of Arda from on top of Taniquetil, even voices crying out in Angband, and Manwe can see all the way East from there too. Varda probably heard Luthiens voice in Angband and Manwe sent the Eagles there at once knowing that some serious shit was going down. He also sent an Eagle to help Fingon save Maedhros! The only reason they didn't save him first I assume was because of the curse of Mandos, but seeing Fingon about to kill him and crying out for Manwe to aid his arrow he sent an Eagle instead.
Just recently stumbled upon your channel and I'm devouring it's content voraciously. A bit like Carcharoth, I suppose. But without the malice. Thank you and keep creating!
I’ve read the deeper lore of middle eart for decades, but hearing this has brought to mind leia infiltrating jabbas palace. The parallels are blatant. Loving these breakdowns mate 👍👍💯
Morgoth is a real sicko and though Tolkien would never outright state it I do think his line about Morgoth lusting over Luthien is Tolkien alluding to Morgoth desiring to rape her, but Tolkien being Tolkien and being passionately Catholic would never write such explicit content and when he rarely did he did not dwell on describing such evil acts- unlike some modern authors today. Which makes Morgoth's evil even worse because he then becomes less nihilistic and more of a powerful tryant indulging his desires while everyone else suffers. It's also further evidence of Morgoth's waning power because now, trapped in a physical body, he succumbs to all the evil temptations that we experience- little to large. But the alternate version of Arien's story really messes up the Valar pardoning Morgoth after he spent three thousand years (Valian) in prison- if Morgoth "ravished" Arien, a great Maiar, then would it not be an unpardonable act and a clear sign that Morgoth should be imprisoned forever due to his terrible character and moral standards? To be fair the Nature of Middle Earth explains that Manwe released Melkor not out of foolishness or naivety but as a means of sticking to principles- Melkor served his time and if Manwe broke a promise (by extending the sentence) he would beginning to set foot on the same road as Melkor took, and Tolkien then states there would emerge two Morgoth's competing for power!
I'd like to hear a re-telling of Morgoth's life but from his perspective. Seems like it could end up pretty funny "So I Got Re-incarnated as a Valar" coming 2023
I might be strange but I usually find villains more interesting than the good guys. I do like Bilbo because he is flawed but sometimes the good guys are a bit too bland.
Another awesome entry into one of the best stories ever. And I’m not gonna roast you over the Chamber of Secrets reference.. but it’s kinda ironic that you mentioned that one as an example because ever since the very first time I read of Fawkes coming to the rescue I couldn’t help but to think that hat happened was that JK Rowling wrote herself into a bit of a corner and decided to take a page from Tolkien when he did the same thing.. and just had a supernatural bird show up who could solve the problems at hand quickly. But good writers borrow from other writers.. while the great ones just steal. Not that I think JKR is as good of a writer as JRRT but…
"Myths Transformed" wasn't part of the published Silmarillion because it contained a radical but partially completed reworking of the Silmarillion and cosmology of middle earth.
Well i am really glad that the eagles are here to save the day or the future of middle earth , when Fingon lost all hope and was about to shoot Maedhros and release him from his misery an Eagle showed up ! my heart really was filled with happiness , for Maedhros was saved and his deeds was both good and bad but they all served the will of Eru i think , if Thingol gave him the silmaril or for any other reason he get to have the silmaril without the kinslaying , Earendil will never reach the Valar with a silmaril and will never get help , he is one of my favourite Elfs so i really want to believe than even in his bad moments he was the reason for something good to happen . Also without forgetting the Union of Maedhros which i would like to call The First Alliance because it was what inspired the Last Alliance between men elves and dwarves . Also when he saved the body of High King Fingolfin i was really happy , glad and relieved because Morgoth didn't get to mess up with his body ( fun fact , he was saved from what did Sauron do to Celebrimbor ) Luthien is totally bad ass and as you said before , Tolkien didn't mention alot of female characters ( well compared to the number of male characters they are few) the females he mention are all bad ass and wise and they always save the day. Thank you for the video i was waiting all week , i wish we have more episodes XD but i understand your hard work to make such amazing video in one week , i can't wait but untill next time much love and navaer melyn nin!
Thank you for these amazing explorations and expositions of Tolkien's work! I absolutely love your grasp of both the events of the stories, and the themes behind them all, which Tolkien seemed to hold so precious. As for eucatastrophes and deus-ex-machina, I sometimes suspect that people may be a bit too quick to declaim that a surprise or positive twist was a contrived deus-ex, especially if that surprise was thoroughly foreshadowed and prepared for in preceding events, situations, themes, or character motives. Personally, in the novels of Harry Potter (say whatever you will about the films), I find the device of Fawkes the Phoenix to satisfy all four of those pillars of preparation, embodying the very themes and stakes of that stage of the tale (again, can't make any defense of the films tho). Likewise it's a bit disappointing when people decry Tolkien's eminently-thematic eagles as being contrived. A tale of Middle Earth without other Powers besides the Will of Evil would be a tale seemingly quite alien to Tolkien; a bit more how Sauron might wish to retell events if he could. One may as well say that the very existence and actions of Samwise Gamgee are somehow a deux-ex-machina, as to say that the actions of Valar or of Eru, or of the eagles or any other benevolent powers or characters, were somehow contrived or out of place. I love how much Tolkien seemed to enjoy demonstrating small acts by small but courageous people being enough to defy the hamfisted legions of dominating evil, and in that I think the eagles, along with Hobbits, Woses, shieldmaidens, Ents, and all free-minded peoples, absolutely embody and illuminate all of Tolkien's foundational themes. The story would be incomplete and even inconsistent without them, I think.
I don't think Chamber of Secrets is an example of Deus Ex Machina, because 99% of what happens was set up in previous chapters. The powers of the Phoenix, the fact that its Harry's loyalty to Dumbledore that summons the Phoenix, and we learn in later books that the sword of Gryffindor can appear to a member of Gryffindor House when they are in great peril.
Eru says during the song of the Ainur that Melkor shall see that in the end everything will contribute to his (Eru's) will. We hear the story of the world in the song wth dicord, people changing harmonies, music being loud and empty but then a quitee tone shines through and wins. Eru stand up 3 times and Eru does intervene actively in Arda's story as well and gives new motifs. I find that very intriguing.
EUcatastrophe is a funny way to say deux ex machina. lazy writing or not but it literally applies to divine intervention, including a lot of stuff from Tolkien.
I must second Spacegoat. Always a great way to start out my Friday! My only disappointment is that I can’t binge watch the whole series yet. Thank you!
The Elves are bound to Arda and "Morgoth's Ring." Men are not, they are bound to Eru-Iluvatar and the Timeless Halls. Melkor and Sauron under estimate men consistently, but only as a result of their separation from what is beyond creation itself. Thus, Luthen is seen, and Beren is not.
Great video, as usual. I think that "inwards" here is not a typo, but an archaic form. The more familiar form "innards" is just a contraction of "inwards". Guts.
About the theme of eucatastrophe: A possible way to understand it better is to look at the christian gospels (which Tolkien was a well known fan of) with this specific aspect in mind. The dynamic of "it looks like all has been lost, but then it all of a sudden turns right again" fits the story of Jesus' crucifiction, and then resurrection just about perfectly. As in "Oh s**t, the guy that was supposed to be our saviour just got executed, we are ABSOLUTELY screwed. But wait! Turns out that disaster was exactly what was required to TRULY defeat evil". I wouldn't call the eagles an example of eucatastrophe though. A eucatastrophe, in my view, is something that the story has been building towards (although you'll never notice upon first read).
Tbh the real villain of this series is eru iluvatar. Morgoth was rebellious pretty much the moment he was made, eru iluvatar basically made a being he knew would be responsible for the corruption and destruction of countless people. The orcs, the werewolves, and many others were forced into awful lives and made to be evil and eru could easily have prevented all of it. If Morgoth showed signs of rebellion as soon as he came into existence the being who created him must have intended him to be that way.
Well, Eru is the writer of the story (and ironically, so is Melkor) so we could judge him as a villain, who did in fact let his "characters" go trough a lot of pain and suffering, and since he was indeed the creator of Morgoth, and since he didn't bother to stop him or change his mind somehow, we can assume the whole discord thing was indeed in Eru's plan. Altought this doesn't defend Morgoth, since he's pretty damn happy about the wicked shit he does, even tho it's Eru that "wrote" those wicked things into existence.
I was not aware, and not prepared, for incel Morgoth. That is so beautiful! Thank you. As for eucatastrophe vs deux ex machina I have a random thought or two. First, I don’t think the Phoenix rescue (or pulling the sword out a hat) are terrible examples. It is based on magical powers that are somewhat established, both in the story and in real world mythology. And also, just like Berens and Frodos eagle rescues, it doesn’t so much resolve the major plot point as it rescues beloved characters after they have done the important stuff themselves. A much worse case is the ”wands with twin cores can’t duel special effect” at the climax of goblet of fire. That one comes completely out of nowhere, feels completely unearned, and doesn’t even makes sense within its own explanation.
I'll add one thing: in the Hobbit/LOTR movies, the appearance of the Eagles _does_ appear somewhat Deus Ex Machina to those who do not know the books, I've certainly seen disbelief before from people reacting to the films a this point. A particular example is when Gandalf just jumps from Orthanc's roof into thin air and then suddenly appears riding a giant eagle lol. What people didn't realise when reacting to that is that in the film Gandalf had instructed the moth to find Gwaihir to rescue him. Of course, in the books, there's a different explanation again which makes more sense and therefore removes any Deus Ex Machina.
I was just listening to another TH-camrs version of this story and was so so so disappointed after hearing it here. I had to come back and hear it again here.
Harry Potter is the chosen one because of prophecy ( He always defeats Voldemort). Dumbledore also argues that love always wins over fear. I would argue why Harry defeats Voldemort in chamber secrets.
As to the question of why Beren tried to take another Silmaril - why wouldn't he? To see something so beautiful - the light of the trees in a jewel hallowed by Varda - in the crown of someone so evil as Morgoth must have seemed absolutely obscene. I think any person of goodness would've had the same impulse, like rescuing an innocent child or animal from someone cruelly abusing them.
Question: when Varda made the Silmarils beyond the grasp of mortals, there were as of yet no mortals in existence, right? Why would this have been a part of Vardas blessing?
By "mortals" I think what was mean was "non-Ainur", which includes Elves even though they are technically immortal (but killable), as we know that Maglor and Maedhros could not in the end bear the touch of the Silmarils when they finally do get to hold the last two. Secondly, the arrival of Men was known to the Valar from the Song of Creation, even if they were not there yet.
As someone who has read most of Tolkien's work , i always had one question and i'm going to ask it here. The Elves who came to Middle Earth to fight in the War of Wrath are described as a mighty host , however these beings have never fought anything for thousands of years. No amount of routine drilling or practice is going to negate their combat inexperience. Does anyone have an answer to this? I always thought there had to be some other theatre of war where they could fight "evil" beings so they can stay in shape.
I don't really think it comes down to training or experience. Instead it's all about the light of the West that enriches them. By the time of the War of Wrath, the trees of Valinor have only been destroyed for a relatively short time, and all the elves are the West are High Elven Calaquendi. By living alongside the Powers of the West, the Calaquendi are ennobled and made much physically stronger and wiser. I think that's where their military might comes from.
@@tolkienuntangled i understand that is what Tolkien might have had in his mind but i find it incredibly difficult to believe. An Elf powered by the light of Valinor is an absolutely terrifying concept , until you realize that mighty looking warrior most likely never hurt an ant in his life. Now he has to fight off swarms of orcs under arrow fire from other swarms of orcs and he has to fight trolls and savage men who are fighting for their Dark God , all of these combatants are most likely heartless emotionless veterans of warfare. Perhaps the elves train on each other and heal their fatal wounds afterwards , Undying Lands and all that? If i cannot find a satisfying explanation to this before i die , i need to find the old timer on the other side. Edit : Your channel is amazing , instant sub material.
Don’t get me wrong I love your tangents but the one on eucatastrophe did not need the details of the destruction of the ring in my opinion especially when I was on a cliffhanger with waiting for the arrival of the eagles. lol but I love your video absolutely love and appreciate them thank you very much for the labor of love
Gonna disagree with you a tiny bit. The 'eucatastrophe' is a not description of how the Creator will not allow Evil to be triumphant in the end (although methinks Tolkien would argue that is true, and is an example of eucatastrophe) but that the word is a simple descriptor of when events turn suddenly from bad to good, just as a catastrophe is when a situation goes from good to bad.
Luthien inherited the power of her voice from her nother Melian who was known for the power of her voice. So Luthiens voice was the most powerful ever, except from Melians.
I’ll keep repeating this, Lùthien is the most awesome badass in the history of Arda. Humiliating both Sauron and Morgoth in rapid succession is an unparalleled feat.
Oh, and she also gave the sons of Fëanor a lesson in humility, which for sure doesn’t hurt.
Rinedbjoir bo
And then she persuaded Death himself to give Beren back to her.
Lúthien has no equal in this legendarium.
I wait all week for your vids. Wouldn't mind paying for an audiobook of The Silmarillion narrated by you
Same!!!
Same Martin Shaw's is pretty good but lacks a little something id imagine RD version would be like Phil Dragash's lord if the rings just complete passion
Bro forreal
Facts man
🤘
Luthien is 100% badass. The part where she is “radiant and terrible” gave me chills. Great video Rainbow Dave as always a great way to start my day
Kinda reminds me of Galadriel in the movie, when she resisted the temptation of the one ring.
I mean were I in Beren's place I'd have tried at the other silmarils too. Not for greed, but returning with all three of them would have dealt an immense blow to Morgoth and could have resolved the oath of Feanor for good. Not trying for it would've been like being the first to successfully climb the everest and stopping a dozen feet short of the tip cause you felt accomplished already.
I thought the exact same thing.
I know this story inside out, but I _still_ get a huge kick from hearing you tell it in your own inimitable style! :)
Of the thousands of videos if watched over the years, yours are the ONLY ones I watch the ads during. That's how great I find your content. Thank for your passion and love.
Thanks! I'm really glad you enjoy the videos.
Well met RD! You've had me anxious for this episode for a week. Your analysis is second to none. Keep up the great work Mellon! Ecthelion!!
You know, the more I learn about Morgoth the more amazed at just how many L’s he takes. For every 3/4 L’s he gets a big Dub.
L-kor
It’s not easy being a baddy in a story of good vs evil!
You never disappoint, RD. This is my early Friday treat (in America). Can't wait for the next one!
These vids give me something to look forward to during my drive home from work when they show up. They also make the crazy complex legendarium of Tolkien much more accessible...give me a way to share these awesome epic stories with my friends and family.
Luthien is so badass oh my gosh! My quest continues to cast The Silmarilion characters in my head.
I came across your channel a couple of months ago after reading LotR as a teenager and loving the films as a young adult. Your videos inspired me to reread LotR and read the Silmarillion for the first time. I’m not sure I would get through it if I didn’t have your channel as a companion piece.
I’ve come back to this by way of some English history and old Norse lit. I can see the fingerprints of both on his work (like this has some echoes of Tyr and the wolf Fenrir) and realizing that was his area of expertise kind of makes me love all three things (the medieval history, the Eddas and the Legendarium) all that much more because I can see how they all a part of the same lovely tree.
Beren: I've done it.
Elu Thingol: Nonsense, you don't have a Silmaril!
Beren: Not at all, you required that I take it from Morgoth and bring it to your realm in my hand. Technically, if you check the northern borders of your land, you'll find a horrible beast driven to madness. Inside that beast is my hand. In that hand? The Silmaril.
r/technicallythetruth , middle earth edition.
Come to think of it there are a number of events that would fit in there.
The fun part about oaths that I love in The Legenderium. Technically the oath was fulfilled when he arrived. Beren went out of his way to retrieve it with Thingol and the others after the fact.
Always enjoy your work, Rainbow Dave!
This was a great episode! A thousand thank yous for including my artwork! What a wonderful surprise! Cheers!
I'm really glad you enjoyed the video. Thanks for creating such wonderful artwork!
Another wonderful Friday video. Your videos make my Friday. I’ve said this before but this tale is my favorite of Tolkien’s works.
Always always a pleasure! Really! Thank you for such high quality content from a true Tolkien-lover!
"Black chasms as of writhing serpents..." Christ Tolkien wrote beautifully. His work roles off the tongue like fine silk.
I LOVE your narrative skills my friend, RD. I've put your channel on the radar of some of my family members and friends and they too adore your presentations.
Thank-you, so very much!
Even though I know this story pretty much by heart, I certainly look forward to your next installment!
Thanks! I'm really glad you enjoy the videos.
@@tolkienuntangled what's those words you always say in elvish at the begin and end?
Whats the best source to learn Quenya?
Well once again Rainbow Dave, excellent job. What an incredible story! The way you pull together all the threads of various editions of Tolkeins writings is EPIC! and Genius. LOVE IT.
Look forward to the series continuing every Friday. Keep up the good work man!
Mae govannen. Excellent video, Dave of Many Colours.
Your background music is excellent, appropriately chosen and placed as the different songs evoke different emotions that your audience is supposed to feel when learning about different stories in your videos. Not many Tolkien content creators do this. Most of them would just stick to one song in a video, disregarding the feel of the stories. You’ve taken a cinematic approach in your background music which contributed to better immersion in the stories. I can’t stress enough how much I love this.
Speaking of Harry Potter, Carcharoth sounds remarkably similar to Karkaroff the Headmaster of Durmstrang, no? 😉
Novaer!
I've had Nightfall in Middle-Earth and The Silmarillion in my possession for about 20 years or so, and it still took me until this video to realise what the scene on the album cover actually was. I feel both stupid and enlightened at the same time.
Of Beren and Luthien would make such an awesome movie…
Such a great episode, one of your best ever (and I've seen most of them)!
Thanks!
Can't believe I'm hooked. Your story telling is 👏.
wow..Lùthien really is amazing and and total badass as well as wonderful. How Tolkien really emphasises the strength and power of true love, as well as true courage and loyalty..to each other (as Tolkien and Edith were to each other). Also, well narratated/dramatasised by Dave and you feel like you are right there with them.
Thanks! This is one of my favourite parts in the story.
I am really enjoying all of your series I have read The Silmarillion several times and listened to the audio book but with these series I can relate to all the characters loving it 🙂
Show me a Dark Lord in any other fiction that holds a candle to Morgoth if you can. What a wicked, vile powerful foe. As a villain lover there are few bad guys (Sauron being one) that I could read about all day.
Same! Villains are such a big part of many stories. In some occasions, no matter how wicked they are, i just can't hate them lol. Probably because well-written people are generally harder to hate, and altough i'm way too much of a softie to read in-depth about Morgoth or Sauron, they're definetly two of my favorite characters in fiction
Edit: if someone comes at me judging my moral compass- it seems obvious that most villain fans aren't fans of the villains' actions (i mean of course now) nor probably their thinking process, just about any other aspect of the character.
Fantastic video! Just caught back up so I can't wait to see what's to come
Putting myself in Beren’s place, my reasoning for trying to take all three Silmarils instead of just one is to put a quick end to the War of the Jewels. With that said, that probably wasn’t his top priority so maybe just projection
Luthien casts: Sleep 3
-It's very effective!
Beren uses: Steal
-You got a silmaril!
Beren uses: Steal
- miss!
:MORGOTH wakes:
Tap X to escape...!
I don't think Beren wanted to take all three of the Silmarils out of greed. It's not as though he wanted them for himself. I think maybe he thought that Morgoth shouldn't have them though and he would've denied them all to Morgoth if he could have.
Perhaps he was under the impression that the Silmarils increased Morgoth’s power and he would be severely weakened if he lost all of them.
and also, the kind of guy who was willing to go on this quest finds himself actually cutting the greatest jewels ever made out of the helmet of the most powerful being ever created. i would be shocked if he stopped at just one and thought 'sweet lets go back'
@@strills1234 True.
13:08. Always good to see the Blind Guardian album cover as part of the artwork included in uour videos lol. 24:50. The interesting thing about that greek prefix is that when Thomas More wrote the word Utopia he meant it as a joke. As the word can be read as You-topia meaning good place Nd Oo-topia meaning place that can't exist!!
"don't eat the shiny stone that burns all evil thing or draw 25 (and suffer immense pain)" ... and now please imagine carcharoth with 25 cards and the silmaril burning in his body from the inside
Wow… your videos makes this story come to life
🌈 Dave!! I’m only into the first few minutes and I just had to pause and write! You are speaking about Carcharoth and I was reminded how George RR Martin rather disses Tolkien for essentially being too wholesome. Yeah, there may not be sex scenes in the Legendarium (that a newbie like me knows of anyway) but Tolkien definitely didn’t shy away from some seriously grisly, tragic and violent content. Time to get back to your video. I hope your Friday is going wonderfully! 😄Thanks for being a highlight in my Fridays, too!!
Ack! I spoke too soon. Melkor did what?!!!! 😱
@@EdoDoe613 I didn’t do anything, don’t blame me
@@morgothbauglir8687 Lol! Good to hear! That old English guy just never understood you…. 😉
@@EdoDoe613 At least the old English guy uses archaic euphemisms like "ravished" rather than going into too much detail, unlike George RR Martin.
However, depending on the version of the tale that you read, the story gets even darker still in some versions. In one, Arien after being raped by Morgoth falls into the Sea and dies; in another her hurt is so great that she forsakes her body and dies, leaving the Sun to fly unguided for a time, burning parts of Arda. In both versions, Eönwë (the Chief Maia and Herald of the Valar) loved Arien and her terrible fate is one of the motivators that drive him to attack and overthrow Morgoth personally during the War of Wrath.
@@sweeperboy Gosh! That is really dark. Also, I agree wholeheartedly with you! As a woman, that is a monstrous violence I’d prefer not to have details on. (In the interviews I’ve heard Martin speak of Tolkien, he sometimes sounds dismissive but I think that’s wholly unfair and wrong.) As our 🌈 Dave said, that passage was not added to “The Silmarillion” so is obviously seems like something Tolkien changed his mind about officially including. Until I stumbled on this channel, I knew very little of the books outside of “LOTR” and “The Hobbit” and I’m blown away by the intricate, dimensional, expansive, powerful, horrible and beautiful mythology that wonderful man composed that we STILL are discussing and enjoying!
Has the weekend come early?? Can't wait to watch this.
Thanks Rainbow Dave, love the way you handle this
I know you didn't say this so I don't mean this as a correction, but the Great Eagles don't "just show up" and people who claim this is a deus ex machina in the movies and books are wrong. Varda can hear the whole of Arda from on top of Taniquetil, even voices crying out in Angband, and Manwe can see all the way East from there too. Varda probably heard Luthiens voice in Angband and Manwe sent the Eagles there at once knowing that some serious shit was going down.
He also sent an Eagle to help Fingon save Maedhros! The only reason they didn't save him first I assume was because of the curse of Mandos, but seeing Fingon about to kill him and crying out for Manwe to aid his arrow he sent an Eagle instead.
Just recently stumbled upon your channel and I'm devouring it's content voraciously. A bit like Carcharoth, I suppose. But without the malice. Thank you and keep creating!
Haha awesome! I'm really glad you enjoy it.
I’ve read the deeper lore of middle eart for decades, but hearing this has brought to mind leia infiltrating jabbas palace. The parallels are blatant. Loving these breakdowns mate 👍👍💯
Makes you glad that Utumno is out of the picture. If Udun was still in play, then Beleriand would've really been screwed.
Morgoth is a real sicko and though Tolkien would never outright state it I do think his line about Morgoth lusting over Luthien is Tolkien alluding to Morgoth desiring to rape her, but Tolkien being Tolkien and being passionately Catholic would never write such explicit content and when he rarely did he did not dwell on describing such evil acts- unlike some modern authors today.
Which makes Morgoth's evil even worse because he then becomes less nihilistic and more of a powerful tryant indulging his desires while everyone else suffers. It's also further evidence of Morgoth's waning power because now, trapped in a physical body, he succumbs to all the evil temptations that we experience- little to large.
But the alternate version of Arien's story really messes up the Valar pardoning Morgoth after he spent three thousand years (Valian) in prison- if Morgoth "ravished" Arien, a great Maiar, then would it not be an unpardonable act and a clear sign that Morgoth should be imprisoned forever due to his terrible character and moral standards?
To be fair the Nature of Middle Earth explains that Manwe released Melkor not out of foolishness or naivety but as a means of sticking to principles- Melkor served his time and if Manwe broke a promise (by extending the sentence) he would beginning to set foot on the same road as Melkor took, and Tolkien then states there would emerge two Morgoth's competing for power!
"unlike some modern authors today. " i like that roast you did of G.R.R Martin there lmao.
Morgoth raping Arien is not canon. It was part of the first few drafts which Tolkien abandoned.
Rainbow Dave, I miss your little Rainbow Dave animation! It always made me smile! 🌈
I'd like to hear a re-telling of Morgoth's life but from his perspective. Seems like it could end up pretty funny
"So I Got Re-incarnated as a Valar" coming 2023
It’s pretty much the sitcom ‘everybody hates Morgoth’ I swear he goes between a dozen L’s before he actually gets a W.
2023 of what age? 😁
I might be strange but I usually find villains more interesting than the good guys. I do like Bilbo because he is flawed but sometimes the good guys are a bit too bland.
Hmm you sound like George R R Martin. It's like you want half your protagonists to be Faenor or something
Bless you for more content!
I love the picture you paint here of Morgoth as, like, the primordial incel.
Another awesome entry into one of the best stories ever.
And I’m not gonna roast you over the Chamber of Secrets reference.. but it’s kinda ironic that you mentioned that one as an example because ever since the very first time I read of Fawkes coming to the rescue I couldn’t help but to think that hat happened was that JK Rowling wrote herself into a bit of a corner and decided to take a page from Tolkien when he did the same thing.. and just had a supernatural bird show up who could solve the problems at hand quickly. But good writers borrow from other writers.. while the great ones just steal. Not that I think JKR is as good of a writer as JRRT but…
"Myths Transformed" wasn't part of the published Silmarillion because it contained a radical but partially completed reworking of the Silmarillion and cosmology of middle earth.
Thank you for another great video
Well i am really glad that the eagles are here to save the day or the future of middle earth , when Fingon lost all hope and was about to shoot Maedhros and release him from his misery an Eagle showed up ! my heart really was filled with happiness , for Maedhros was saved and his deeds was both good and bad but they all served the will of Eru i think , if Thingol gave him the silmaril or for any other reason he get to have the silmaril without the kinslaying , Earendil will never reach the Valar with a silmaril and will never get help , he is one of my favourite Elfs so i really want to believe than even in his bad moments he was the reason for something good to happen . Also without forgetting the Union of Maedhros which i would like to call The First Alliance because it was what inspired the Last Alliance between men elves and dwarves .
Also when he saved the body of High King Fingolfin i was really happy , glad and relieved because Morgoth didn't get to mess up with his body ( fun fact , he was saved from what did Sauron do to Celebrimbor )
Luthien is totally bad ass and as you said before , Tolkien didn't mention alot of female characters ( well compared to the number of male characters they are few) the females he mention are all bad ass and wise and they always save the day.
Thank you for the video i was waiting all week , i wish we have more episodes XD but i understand your hard work to make such amazing video in one week , i can't wait but untill next time much love and navaer melyn nin!
Thank you for these amazing explorations and expositions of Tolkien's work! I absolutely love your grasp of both the events of the stories, and the themes behind them all, which Tolkien seemed to hold so precious. As for eucatastrophes and deus-ex-machina, I sometimes suspect that people may be a bit too quick to declaim that a surprise or positive twist was a contrived deus-ex, especially if that surprise was thoroughly foreshadowed and prepared for in preceding events, situations, themes, or character motives. Personally, in the novels of Harry Potter (say whatever you will about the films), I find the device of Fawkes the Phoenix to satisfy all four of those pillars of preparation, embodying the very themes and stakes of that stage of the tale (again, can't make any defense of the films tho). Likewise it's a bit disappointing when people decry Tolkien's eminently-thematic eagles as being contrived. A tale of Middle Earth without other Powers besides the Will of Evil would be a tale seemingly quite alien to Tolkien; a bit more how Sauron might wish to retell events if he could. One may as well say that the very existence and actions of Samwise Gamgee are somehow a deux-ex-machina, as to say that the actions of Valar or of Eru, or of the eagles or any other benevolent powers or characters, were somehow contrived or out of place. I love how much Tolkien seemed to enjoy demonstrating small acts by small but courageous people being enough to defy the hamfisted legions of dominating evil, and in that I think the eagles, along with Hobbits, Woses, shieldmaidens, Ents, and all free-minded peoples, absolutely embody and illuminate all of Tolkien's foundational themes. The story would be incomplete and even inconsistent without them, I think.
Serendipity, I just finished part 6 of Bren and Luthien, then you post this.
I don't think Chamber of Secrets is an example of Deus Ex Machina, because 99% of what happens was set up in previous chapters. The powers of the Phoenix, the fact that its Harry's loyalty to Dumbledore that summons the Phoenix, and we learn in later books that the sword of Gryffindor can appear to a member of Gryffindor House when they are in great peril.
Eru says during the song of the Ainur that Melkor shall see that in the end everything will contribute to his (Eru's) will.
We hear the story of the world in the song wth dicord, people changing harmonies, music being loud and empty but then a quitee tone shines through and wins. Eru stand up 3 times and Eru does intervene actively in Arda's story as well and gives new motifs.
I find that very intriguing.
~28:00 I couldn't help it. When you said the eagles arrived, I started humming "The Winged Hussars" from the band Sabaton.
These are all superb 👌
You are an excellent story teller.
Thanks!
EUcatastrophe is a funny way to say deux ex machina. lazy writing or not but it literally applies to divine intervention, including a lot of stuff from Tolkien.
Happy Friday, Rainbow Dave. Stay groovy 🤟
I must second Spacegoat. Always a great way to start out my Friday! My only disappointment is that I can’t binge watch the whole series yet. Thank you!
Eucatastrophe! I learned a new word today.
Lovely video👌, I watched Tolkien movie today, its amazing.
The Elves are bound to Arda and "Morgoth's Ring." Men are not, they are bound to Eru-Iluvatar and the Timeless Halls. Melkor and Sauron under estimate men consistently, but only as a result of their separation from what is beyond creation itself. Thus, Luthen is seen, and Beren is not.
Great video, as usual. I think that "inwards" here is not a typo, but an archaic form. The more familiar form "innards" is just a contraction of "inwards". Guts.
Very interesting.
Would it be a crazy thought to just leave with the crown to avoid waking Morgoth and all of Angband?
Wow! That was amazing!!!
About the theme of eucatastrophe:
A possible way to understand it better is to look at the christian gospels (which Tolkien was a well known fan of) with this specific aspect in mind.
The dynamic of "it looks like all has been lost, but then it all of a sudden turns right again" fits the story of Jesus' crucifiction, and then resurrection just about perfectly.
As in "Oh s**t, the guy that was supposed to be our saviour just got executed, we are ABSOLUTELY screwed. But wait! Turns out that disaster was exactly what was required to TRULY defeat evil".
I wouldn't call the eagles an example of eucatastrophe though. A eucatastrophe, in my view, is something that the story has been building towards (although you'll never notice upon first read).
Never had that much interest in LOTR or Tolkein in general but god damn if you're not a good enough storyteller to make me change my mind.
Tbh the real villain of this series is eru iluvatar. Morgoth was rebellious pretty much the moment he was made, eru iluvatar basically made a being he knew would be responsible for the corruption and destruction of countless people. The orcs, the werewolves, and many others were forced into awful lives and made to be evil and eru could easily have prevented all of it. If Morgoth showed signs of rebellion as soon as he came into existence the being who created him must have intended him to be that way.
Well, Eru is the writer of the story (and ironically, so is Melkor) so we could judge him as a villain, who did in fact let his "characters" go trough a lot of pain and suffering, and since he was indeed the creator of Morgoth, and since he didn't bother to stop him or change his mind somehow, we can assume the whole discord thing was indeed in Eru's plan. Altought this doesn't defend Morgoth, since he's pretty damn happy about the wicked shit he does, even tho it's Eru that "wrote" those wicked things into existence.
Rainbow Dave, fantastic work as always!
Thanks!
Lovin ur channel..best out there for lotr vidsss
Morgoth repeatedly getting injured in avoidable circumstances will never not be funny to me.
I was not aware, and not prepared, for incel Morgoth.
That is so beautiful! Thank you.
As for eucatastrophe vs deux ex machina I have a random thought or two.
First, I don’t think the Phoenix rescue (or pulling the sword out a hat) are terrible examples. It is based on magical powers that are somewhat established, both in the story and in real world mythology. And also, just like Berens and Frodos eagle rescues, it doesn’t so much resolve the major plot point as it rescues beloved characters after they have done the important stuff themselves.
A much worse case is the ”wands with twin cores can’t duel special effect” at the climax of goblet of fire. That one comes completely out of nowhere, feels completely unearned, and doesn’t even makes sense within its own explanation.
I'll add one thing: in the Hobbit/LOTR movies, the appearance of the Eagles _does_ appear somewhat Deus Ex Machina to those who do not know the books, I've certainly seen disbelief before from people reacting to the films a this point.
A particular example is when Gandalf just jumps from Orthanc's roof into thin air and then suddenly appears riding a giant eagle lol. What people didn't realise when reacting to that is that in the film Gandalf had instructed the moth to find Gwaihir to rescue him. Of course, in the books, there's a different explanation again which makes more sense and therefore removes any Deus Ex Machina.
You're a true bard sir *salutes*
You the best RD!!!
I was just listening to another TH-camrs version of this story and was so so so disappointed after hearing it here. I had to come back and hear it again here.
Awesome to see the Blind Guardian's Nightfall in Middle-Earth cover 🤘
Nice work dude thanks
Great stuff.!
I love how you pronounce Carcharoth. Sounds like Yiddish :P
Tell you what I consider to be a Deus Ex Machina, though-the sudden arrival of Elves at Helms Deep in the movie adaptation of The Two Towers.
It's also amazing how quickly they got there, all the way from Lothlorian and all. I mean, elves are swift, but c'mon!
Your work is amazing.
I always wondered why didnt they just take the Crown. ..must have been too heavy .
Oh man this is a good one
Harry Potter is the chosen one because of prophecy ( He always defeats Voldemort). Dumbledore also argues that love always wins over fear. I would argue why Harry defeats Voldemort in chamber secrets.
As to the question of why Beren tried to take another Silmaril - why wouldn't he? To see something so beautiful - the light of the trees in a jewel hallowed by Varda - in the crown of someone so evil as Morgoth must have seemed absolutely obscene. I think any person of goodness would've had the same impulse, like rescuing an innocent child or animal from someone cruelly abusing them.
Tolkien really liked to play that eagle card. He must have stacked his playdeck with a bunch of copies.
Question: when Varda made the Silmarils beyond the grasp of mortals, there were as of yet no mortals in existence, right? Why would this have been a part of Vardas blessing?
Planning ahead?
By "mortals" I think what was mean was "non-Ainur", which includes Elves even though they are technically immortal (but killable), as we know that Maglor and Maedhros could not in the end bear the touch of the Silmarils when they finally do get to hold the last two.
Secondly, the arrival of Men was known to the Valar from the Song of Creation, even if they were not there yet.
amazing video 🤩
So good. :)
As someone who has read most of Tolkien's work , i always had one question and i'm going to ask it here.
The Elves who came to Middle Earth to fight in the War of Wrath are described as a mighty host , however these beings have never fought anything for thousands of years. No amount of routine drilling or practice is going to negate their combat inexperience.
Does anyone have an answer to this? I always thought there had to be some other theatre of war where they could fight "evil" beings so they can stay in shape.
I don't really think it comes down to training or experience. Instead it's all about the light of the West that enriches them. By the time of the War of Wrath, the trees of Valinor have only been destroyed for a relatively short time, and all the elves are the West are High Elven Calaquendi. By living alongside the Powers of the West, the Calaquendi are ennobled and made much physically stronger and wiser. I think that's where their military might comes from.
@@tolkienuntangled i understand that is what Tolkien might have had in his mind but i find it incredibly difficult to believe. An Elf powered by the light of Valinor is an absolutely terrifying concept , until you realize that mighty looking warrior most likely never hurt an ant in his life. Now he has to fight off swarms of orcs under arrow fire from other swarms of orcs and he has to fight trolls and savage men who are fighting for their Dark God , all of these combatants are most likely heartless emotionless veterans of warfare.
Perhaps the elves train on each other and heal their fatal wounds afterwards , Undying Lands and all that?
If i cannot find a satisfying explanation to this before i die , i need to find the old timer on the other side.
Edit : Your channel is amazing , instant sub material.
I wonder if Rainbow Dave keeps a blooper reel of miss-pronunciations. If so I want to hear it!
Dont want to spoil anything - Goes on to spoil Luthien winning over Morgoth. Brilliant :D
7/9! We're coming to the end of the story soon! Can you do the Children of Húrin next??
That'll be my next big series. But just before I start it, I'm going to set it up with a short series on the Fifth Battle - the Nirnaeth Arnoediad
@@tolkienuntangled perfect, I can't wait! Thanks so much for your work!
Hell yeah just got it!!
Don’t get me wrong I love your tangents but the one on eucatastrophe did not need the details of the destruction of the ring in my opinion especially when I was on a cliffhanger with waiting for the arrival of the eagles. lol but I love your video absolutely love and appreciate them thank you very much for the labor of love
Gonna disagree with you a tiny bit.
The 'eucatastrophe' is a not description of how the Creator will not allow Evil to be triumphant in the end (although methinks Tolkien would argue that is true, and is an example of eucatastrophe) but that the word is a simple descriptor of when events turn suddenly from bad to good, just as a catastrophe is when a situation goes from good to bad.
Luthien inherited the power of her voice from her nother Melian who was known for the power of her voice. So Luthiens voice was the most powerful ever, except from Melians.
So Morgoth was the Prisoner of Angband? Sounds familiar.
Those eagles have pimpin names. Like I'd imagine thier pimp hand is waaaaay strong