Your Yamaha A-S2100 reference amplifier is a 23kg push-pull symmetrical amplifier. When it was available on the market, the combined price of the amplifier and CD player set was ~ 3000 dollars! The WiiM AMP is available for $330! They don't play in the same league! Let's take a look at this small class D amplifier, entry level. The WiiM amplifier paired with a pair of high-sensitivity 88-95 dB speakers will be sufficient for most people who want to enter the world of HiFi with a starter kit. The dynamics can be increased by connecting a subwoofer, the WiiM's software provides a great option with a low pass filter to do this effectively. Room correction, parametric EQ and other niceties. The WiiM AMP's price-to-value ratio is simply jaw-dropping, the best on the market. And yes it has flaws, it's not perfect, but for this price it's forgivable! My respect to you, I am an amateur hobby music listener!
Comparing apple to orange. But at the same time, expecting the apple to taste like an orange... I believe this review makes clear the WiiM Amp isn't high fidelity (Hi-Fi). You will not be getting into Hi-Fi with this, is what I take out of the video. Doesn't mean it's not a good product.
Hi there, what similar amplifier would you buy to pair with a pair of Quad S1 speakers for around 1000$? I have the Quad Vena but it broke and it doesn't have Airplay.
I’m currently using a WiiM amp with a pair of Sonus Faber Nova II while my main amp is being serviced. System sounds good, despite being a huge mullet!
Great review !!!! You hit on all, and more points I was thinking about watching the other reviewers. We have some old speakers and at low to moderate volumes it does perfectly fine. It also takes up minimal space and my wife can use it without difficulty. Would I prefer to get something more expensive and powerful, certainly would. I would most likely never use it to it's fullest. There's a time and place for everything, and because of it's size you can place it almost everywhere. Sometimes okay is good enough.
Nice honest review and great delivery! - Appreciate your time and effort. Pretty much confirmed my suspicions so I'm going with your alternative recommendation for a small bedroom system.
Nobody's safe from being torched by the Scientific Audiophile, l love it🤣 You're like the sheriff of this little TH-cam town and justice is being served swiftly! Too many outlaws here spitting nonsense and it needs to be cleaned up 🤣
Don't get the wrong impression. I'm not heavy into testing, so nothing but a 4 ohm resistor, voltage and amp meters. The purpose is NOT to show equipment tests, those are best left to people with Audio Precision analyzers and other such test equipment. I simply to back up what I and many others have heard, the WiiM amp does NOT get as loud as it's specs would indicate. I was writing this review prior to Erins Audio channel testing and showing the issue he found.
@@scientificaudiophile Yeah, you're using a simple amp meter, which is quite inadequate for what you are trying to show. So as you say it's best to leave this testing to people like Amir with an Audio Precision analyser instead.
@@gurratell7326if the only goal is measure how loud an amp goes, you dont need to be a pseudo scientist like amir to measure that. Go back to your ASR cult.
Now that was a solid review, and I actually learnt something. I'm playing around with these little Chinese amps and am actually enjoying the experience. For the money, they are pretty darn good, but I would say to get the most out of them, it is best to have sensitive speakers, 95dB or higher, and a way to boost the line level input to as you stated, 4.5v. I did that with a Douk line level booster, and these little amps open right up, and can be very dynamic. My ZA3 will be here tomorrow. I already have the V3 and a pair of the A07's. I also have a pair of the Sparkos, I liked the TI op amps that the little amps came with. The Sparkos were a bit veiled, even muddy sounding on my system. I user a WiiM Pro to stream, PS Audio DAC/Preamp, Zu DW6 Supreme speakers.
I don't think speakers need to be quite as sensitive as that, though agree that they won't play well with 85db/m stand mounts. The Fyne F501s go plenty loud with the V3 and they are 90dB sensitive. So too do my Wharfedale Elysian-4 s at 92dB though I wouldn't choose to use the V3 with them. I've also tried it with Revel M106s at 87dB and, while the combo lacks a bit of dynamic oomph it is still pretty good.
@@jimfarrell4635 I'm partial to sensitive speakers, as I like to listen at low volumes. Just me. I have never gotten the desired sound out of a tougher to drive speaker. Just me. On EDIT: I just picked up a very difficult to drive pair of Magnepan LRS+, and am blown away. ;-)
@@joelcarson4602 I just picked up a pair of the Magnepan LRS+ speakers, and had to drag out my old Emotiva XPA2... The Fosi ZA3 drove them without breaking a sweat, which was cool. But, that Class D 2 dimensional sound was there... Enter the Emotiva. First world problems. And these LRS+, the hype is true. I cannot believe the sound out of these, especially after I added an active crossover and a pair of those little REL T-Zero MKIII subs... I just received the Danny Ritchie LRS+ mod kit, cannot wait to redo that crossover. And my Zu's are staying, I still like my tubes. ;-)
Thanks for the great review. I am using a WiiM Amp Pro on my secondary system (paired with KEF Q150’s and Klipsch sub). Room is 16x16. EQ and bass mgt in app is really excellent for fine tuning. Does fine power wise but there are some tracks which are more demanding for the amp.
Very solid review. Shouldn’t be earth shattering that a budget product like this won’t do everything well. It seems many keep looking for the sub $300 unicorn. This product would be great for a non-critical application and I would consider it.
Probably your best video to date Humor and facts Your testing is welcome as is Erin’s Too many shills on TH-cam Amir may be a wanker, but some of what he is doing is worthwhile I Heart the way you bring the TH-cam audio channels together 🤔
I bought this Amp too without big expectations...but i was a little impressed how good it sounds. After i have seen this Video, i did the separation test too...Nothing....absolute Silent when i played the right channel. Maybe they fixed it with an firmwarepdate? As an High-End Audiophile i hate to admit...but it sounds very good (in my combination).
I fully agree with your assessment. Because of the great reviews I also bought 2 of these small class D amps. But I found out quickly, that every half decent 30 year old class AB amp sounds much better. And you don't need 5000$+ speakers to hear that.
Scientific Audiophile, as well as critiquing other peoples work, you may want to check your own audio quality on your videos. This is the first one I have watched and the audio quality of your voice is quite poor. In this case as well as critiquing John Darko you might want to also listen to the quality of his voice using the microphones he has and consider doing something similar or better.
Game, set and match. I have only just found your site and will be watching a lot more. Subscribed. The trouble is that the likes of Darko know nothing about physics and even less about music. Music is to be listened to as realistically as possible but far too many 'reviewers' forgot how to listen long ago.
Thank you for the down to earth review, so many TH-cam-ers are merely parrots of one another and are afraid to really talk frankly about a given product because they are about followers and personality…and getting graft from audio manufacturers.
That's really interesting about the 1kHz test. I'll stick to my old class A/B iron for in home use. Have you ever listened to a lepai lp-2020a+? I can't figure out why I like the sound of it
I’ve found all the chip amps lack power when not fed a 4+ voltage. I’d find a used AVR or stereo receiver. However, if space is an issue, get the Aiyima.
@@scientificaudiophile Well I plan to use it for a room sound system with four ceiling speakers. Are there any ceiling speakers you would recommend that would pair well with the WiiM Ultra & AIYIMA A07 Pro TPA3255 combo please? I plan to also hard wire the network and not use WiFi.
@@scientificaudiophile Happy Tuesday, first I wanna say thank you. So many TH-camr's never assist or respond to any of their videos/content, thank you so much for always replying :). I really would like to go with a smaller chip amp, but I want one that doesn't require me buying a PSU brick that costs more than the amp and is massive in size to drive the little chip amp. Do any exist? lol
What can I say. Love the honest review, but still love my Wiim Amp. If there was a better quality option with the same features available for say 50% extra cost... Replaced my Rotel amp with Wiim, and finally the whole family uses the proper speakers for TV and music (Spotify connect). Yamaha WXA-50 for instance don't have HDMI-ARC.
The point of the Wiim amp is that you don't get anything with the same features for that price. And while I like the Ikea symfonisk (sonos compatible streamer+dac+amp+speaker system w/o external inputs, nice sound signature, can't play loud, under $300), the arylic products don't convince me as much as the Wiim products. So it seems Wiim amp is the best opf the cheap, while not top notch hifi grade. But what is at that price range.
Wow, finally a review that has some meat in it. I've learned a lot, thank you. Considering the downsides, it's acceptable for my poorly treated living room & TV amp. Finally someone explained to me why measurements != good listening experience.
Wha;?Dissing Amir and cheering for Mr.Robinson?It's like chaos man!!Cats lying down with dogs (watch out Helmholtz)/Like G-d Damn Hieronymus Bosch painting of review confusion.I need a drink
I always buy my milk at the Kwik-E-Mart since it's only 50 cents a gallon. Sure, it's three weeks past the sale date, but an occasional bout of diarrhea is well worth the savings. Now on the other hand, hot dogs ...
I had concerns about the reported cross talk and what real world experience could be so appreciated that a lot. Sold an avr since I wasn't doing surround sound and been looking for a replacement thats easy to use with the TV, i.e. arc capable but it's hard to find something on a budget that's not an avr. Threshold seems to be 1k. Oh well
Great Video, I have been tossing up between the Wiim Amp and the SMSL AO300 as an amp/dac combo. If you had to pick between the 2 which would you say is better, as I feel both are sufficient for me, but it is always good to have an opinion from an actual audiophile. Compactness is a big selling point for the Wiim Amp for me as I listen nearfield at low volume on my pc. Looking to get a set of good speakers and connecting to my computer, with some movie watching on a lounge 1-2 away. The screen bugs me on the AO300, it looks nothing like their product images as to how it looks in other videos. Just getting into the Audiophile space so it is a lot to all take in lol.
@@scientificaudiophile Thank you for the reply, it is very kind of you. Looking at the Aiyima Max, it offers a subwoofer option but as I understand it that it will not be in sync with the volume control, if that is the case what would you recommend with that, I agree with the Wiim Pro Plus too :)
@@j0my77 Yes, it is unfortunate these amps aren't preamps and don't control the volume control, however the WiiM Pro Plus would control the volume, so once your sub is level matched you could keep the Aiyima on a set volume and let the WiiM control the volume.
Nice shot at PFA, and deserved too. Have you seen the ana(DIA)log guy's stuff.....oh boy!?...I had the WiiM Pro for 5 months and then sold it. I went back to the Yamaha WXC 50 just for streaming. I don't use any other of it's functions.
Please don’t take this the wrong way. As I’m grateful you made this video. And am officially a subscriber for life. Anyways I’d love to make the suggestion of taking a closer look at your microphone. It’s very harsh. Especially when coming through my phone speakers, which is how most viewers consume content. I find it concerning that Someone so well versed in audio, has such a rough sounding mic. On another note, great video, thank you for your honesty. It’s a breath of fresh air.
I’m still having mic problems, having used the built in mic on the camera, an expensive Sony mic and an expensive Rode. I think the issue may be the camera itself and I’m going to try recording directly onto the computer, though that makes syncing a pain when editing.
@@scientificaudiophile when you have everything connected go into the sound control panel and make and make sure that all sound enhancements have been turns off. And you can try changing the sample rate to a higher setting since windows likes to set it at the lowest possible option sometimes. The sonar equalizer in the steel series gg app is also surprisingly robust and allows you to edit your mic curve as well.
You have now confirmed my suspicions in my case I will be far better off saving up for an integrated amp that can handle complex powerful music and run a WIIM mini streamer with it. 😀
The problem with many amplifiers, whether class AB or class D, is the power supply section. External power bricks run out of reserves rather quickly. A power amp rated at 50 watts at 8 ohms 20 to 20,000 hz will perform better if the power supply is actually capable of delivering 100 watts continously to the amplifier circuitry. Just as an analogy, current high end gaming video cards in computers (Such as an Nvidia RTX 4090) can for a few milliseconds draw over 650 watts which have been tripping the protection circuitry in 850 watt premium power supply units. Large bass transients at high volume levels can drain the reserves of many power supplies in amplifiers which can definitely affect signal integrity at other frequencies.
Would you recommend something like an SMSL AO300 paired with a WIIM Pro? I've got a pair of 6ohm ELAC Debut B6.1's so the WIIM amp is likely powerful enough (~90W/channel?) but the channel separation that you highlighted has me a bit worried. I was hoping to limit the amount of stuff on my desk so I didn't want an amp + streamer + DAC and the SMSL at least combines the amp and the DAC. Any thoughts?
I have the SMSL AO300 with WIIM mini and Monitor Audio Silver. It goes very loud. I like it albeit a little bass light, but this is down to the speakers.
Just want to say “Thank you” SA. I bought a second hand Yamaha as 2100 for 900 eur for my second system. Not only it plays phenomenally, but it surpasses my Hegel h190 (just as amp/preamp) from my main setup, which ended up replacing. Unfortunately my unit doesn’t have the famous “Yamaha sound” 😢.
@@scientificaudiophile no, he wanted an all-in-one type solution and was aiming to buy a Hegel h590. Usually on the Polish market they sell for around 1200USD mine was cheaper because it has a few scratches on the top plate. Anyway for that price I couldn’t pass on it especially knowing it is your reference amp. The unit is in perfect condition, I’m still amazed how good it is and how in my 10+ amp list is the only that is absolutely quiet when not playing musing, 0 noise. I have fairly sensitive speakers at 91db. It is a joy to watch and use except for the mute function ;). Keep up the awesome work
@@hugocosta179 Never had the pleasure to review the A-S3200. Is it worth considering? If you find another sucker willing to part with it for $2k or less, than I wouldn't hesitate.
In my case, i bought the wiim amp and replaced the existing 5 year more expensive old onkyo. Better result because i can now equalizer the room and speakers using the built in auto room correction and eq. Besides, 95% of the time i don't listen at the very high volumes where headroom becomes an issue, but i also used the sub management in the app to cut off bass at 35 hz so as not to waste head room. The result is good so although the amplifier does have the problems you list, the father brilliant app mitigates most.
It intrigues me why no one says "what's the catch." Something that would be *really annoying* in one context may be not a problem in another. It's obvious that something has to give when you design a budget product.
I got the wiim amp last night for a bedroom set - Netflix and youtube mainly and very occasional music streaming on tidal. Speakers are 88db minimum 6 ohms floorstanders. Sound I’m getting is entry level home theatre standard on Netflix. Dialog sounds thin and brittle. Bass vague and diffused. Flat sounding😮. I’m gonna try the parametric EQ to try to get better sound. Any advice and tips? Perhaps it needs to burn in. Thanks.
I would assume most ppl would use this for streaming music mainly. Nothing against using CD audio test.. but its hard to understand what is worrisome vs what is a non issue.
Great video! Thanks for the testing insight. I got rid of my Peachtree Nova 125 cause it could not drive my Thiel CS 2.3's, I now run a ICEpower 1200AS2 with no problem.
You are a star. Funny, but with at the core a real erudite message on some of the slick, but ultimatly somewhat dubious fellow reviewers out there..... I have to admit, having always run reasnoble Class A, or AB amps. I have looked recently at the emerging Class D stuff with interest. Not reallly the glut of cheap budget amps from China. But more the interesting Purify and Hypex modules in some of the more advanced and cutting edge European and US units. I would be very interested in your take on them. I know they measure well generally, and some say they sound very good now (?). Others that they are still thin and not quite there yet, certainly compared to your Sugdens, Exposures, Regas and so on. You could do a good service to those of us interested in the advancing tech though, and who like your approach. By reviewing some of these pricier but also more leading edge comparable D units. Thank you Sir.
Yes. I’m going to test the cd track by unplugging one rca cable and listen if it bleeds through. If not, my reference integrated amp has a slight channel balance issue as well. Thanks!
My A-S2100 is spec’d at 74 dB at 1 kHz and 54 dB at 10 kHz - and that is considered excellent. Seems like separate amps might be in my future. Yes, this is a car web site: www.806autoworks.com/understanding-specifications-car-audio-amplifier-stereo-separation/#:~:text=Understanding%20Amplifier%20Stereo%20Separation&text=A%20good%20number%20would%20be%20something%20about%2070%20dB.
I completely disagree with this guy to a degree , I don't have or listened to the wiim amp , but I will have to comment after he said class D amps and cheep streamers , I have been in audio for 20 plus years , owned high end audio from most known. Big giants and chased good sound and wasted over a 100k doing it , my last 5.1 system was the b&w CM10 V2 with matching rears and Center , 6 years ago I had the paradigm signature 5.1 with the S8/C5/S2 , and had all in between though out the years , my amps used to be anthem , Yamaha , arcam , Nad. And much more , yes I enjoyed lots of listening and always listened to salesmen talk about measurements , due to a divorce I sold all what I had, about 2 months ago I spotted brand new and the last pair of paradigm S2 in black with the stands and I couldn't resist and got them for 2100 Canadian , now I need a nice amp , when I initially auditioned the speakers at this old man house I was blown away with the image and the base and the depth and details of the sound to the point I thought he had the subs or other speakers running and I had to make sure to see the cables were unplugged from his other equipment , so I asked him what amp running these and he even ran other speakers that sounded as good but the paradigm comes with the PE tweeter so the details were breath taking , I was shocked when he told me an arylic upstream 100 dollars cheap amp that I never heard of , so a week later I did my search and yes it had a lot of different views and reviews , so I ordered the arylic A50+ , to this day I can't believe my damn ears , all that money I have spent in my life time to realize that I could of done it with a lot cheeper and less headache , and guess what I don't have fancy cables I just regular car speaker cable that I had a bundle of , then I went and researched a soundbar that can come close to a soundbar and seen that the sennheiser amebo plus is a good one so I got one of Facebook for 1200 Canadian also brand new sealed , and that bar is amazing but will never beat 9.2 system but fits my need and my pocket is happy , the moral of the story just like the watch market I chased numbers and figures and spent a lot of money while I could of done all of that for less than 5k Canadian , my subwoofer is off and it's going for sale even though am a base head , as the sound and the base am getting out of the system is unbelievable and localized with out shaking up my place, never believe in numbers and wires and power filters , just believe your ears and what you like , that I learned the hard way.
first and foremost, the negativity and insults directed at other reviewers makes me want to immediately switch you off and not look back. look in the mirror.
I think that would be a great combo, but unfortunately it would miss out on the HDMI (e)ARC which atleast to me is one of the main selling points. So gutted the preamp only units don't feature hdmi ARC...? Any other preamp/streamer combo that would have ARC..?
Thank you for the review. I was going to buy the 'WiiM Amp' for my budget-friendly 'DALI Spektor 1' speakers, but now I'm confused. People, and the author of this channel, what can you recommend in the budget range of $150-250? Regarding the room - it’s a workspace, approximately 6 square meters in size, which is quite small. I plan to use the speakers as 'computer speakers' by placing them on a small table. So, I'll be mostly near them, and therefore, excessive volume probably isn’t necessary (though it’s always better to have some extra). As for the amplifier (or receiver) size, it would be preferable if it doesn’t stand out too much, considering it will be on the table.
I tried to persuade my wife to go to Axpona, but sadly she was unimpressed. We do live in Scotland mind you. Perhaps Munich high end is more realistic.
😂 Well, while I agree with your review both pre recommendation and post recommendation I don't necessarily think John was absolutely off the mark. He never claimed it was better than a number of similar or higher priced units with likely no cross talk. I took his recommendation as value not critical listening value, but as you said, I like it's convenient for another application and is generally good. Overall I'd say, great review. And I will be interested in the back catalog of reviews on Hi Fi of interest. Thanks~
How about use some reasonable measurement devices like an oscilloscope and a signal gen. Multimeter RMS is unreliable. Also measue the RMS of your input signal. Further Uncorrelatd white noise can mathematically only be 66% of the power of a sine by definition. RMS of sine is 1/sqrt(2) amplitude in volt, RMS of white noise is sqrt(3)/3 in volts. P = U^2/R so proportional to volt squared 0.5 vs 1/3.
@@scientificaudiophile 👍 Enjoyed the review! I'm curious about these streamer amps but need to be convinced that it's worth changing out my decade old tripath amp.
Im in a predicament because what i really want is the wiim amp features but im worried about sound quality versus lets say the ao300. But apparently hdmi cec doesn't work with the ao300 or the loxjie a40. Is my only affordable option with hdmi cec the wiim amp? Would the wiim amp still be a big upgrade for my t-zero+ towers over my fosi audio bt30d (50w per channel)
Have you checked out the Denon AVR x1800H? It has a lot of features for about double the money. Especially if you can get the version that doesn't have DAB and is discounted to €550,- now. But indeed - not at that price point.
Unless your equipment measures TrueRMS within a frequency range of 20 to 20 kHz, your measurements are worthless. I suspect that little yellow one is designed to measure pure sine waves within a small frequency range centered around 50/60 Hz.
Is this pink noise, white noise, and what input level? Your claims on this make no sense. Is your measurement gear a cheap multimeter? Does it have fairly flat response over 20 khz?
@@scientificaudiophileYes it matters. Big difference in pink or white. And how did you measure it? A cheap multimeter will not pick up that part of the noise higher in frequency. So it will be there and you'll think power output is down. Was it a True RMS meter? What level was this noise file on the CD in terms of dbFS? Did you set levels with the tone and then send the CD signal thru at the same volume setting? What you are claiming here is not how things work.
It's pink noise. I'm also not testing for noise, I'm simply testing for wattage output. It's why I used the A-S2100 for reference. It's yet another data point, as I never said this is all the WiiM amp is capable of. It simply correlates with every other test, not just mine but others as well, that when this amp is fed more than a single tone, it can NOT hit it's spec'd wattage output. Now if you want to prove otherwise, send me the link to your test, be it URL or video, showing the WiiM amp can hit its numbers with more than a 1 khz test tone. Thanks.
@@dennismoore1116 --- These sort of things are why I suggested in a comment that this guy is out of his depth technically. He nuked that comment, of course. He has neither the EE-level knowledge nor adequate test gear to credibly evaluate audio amplifiers. A multimeter and a clamp-on ammeter? Not even a scope (which for audio frequencies are very inexpensive nowadays)? Seriously? He's *maybe* one rung up the ladder from the likes of Guttenberg, Darko, and Robinson -- but there are a great many more rungs to climb before even a modicum of credibility is reached. He reminds me of Randy -- the "cheapaudioman" -- albeit with a tasty frosting of half-understood technical jargon. Disclaimer: I personally don't claim to know much more than he does. The difference is I know what I don't know -- that's why I'm not on U-Toob as a "scientific" adviser to the audio world!
@@scientificaudiophile Your testing is wrong. There is no way on earth this amplifier produces just 0.1 watt. That alone should have been a signal for you make sure you have the right setup for testing. I showed multitone at 5 watts. And that has richer spectrum than any music. Why on earth do you claim I only test at 1 kHz? How the heck did you jump the shark from doing satire to trying to test hardware? You need far more knowledge and experience to do this kind of work. On crosstalk, I showed that in my test but is only a problem with analog input, not digital. Heaven knows we have enough nonsense out there in product reviews on youtube. We don't need more of them.
Have you ever been in an establishment eating or drinking and noticed that you are only hearing one channel of your favorite song because the speakers are so far apart? Well, now we can create a market for the cheap amps that have cross talk. The more cross talk the better.
The WiiM Amp will be fine if you’re going to use it only as a streamer and not the line input. Pair it with the Polk Audio Atrium 5’s and you’ll have a great setup.
I've watched over ten videos before subscribing. Why? Because I think, therefore, I am. Besides, I have a similar wry sense of humor. I hoped you would try it out with an $800 power cord. It is always a good policy to please physics... Not that the electrons would have noticed it anyway, or the electronics, for that matter. May have even solved the crosstalk between the stereo channels... (crickets). I also have followed Erin's Audio Corner for a while. He can be more diplomatic than you. Both of you do call something garbage when it actually is garbage.
@@scientificaudiophile I am A-Ok with a lack of diplomacy. Umpires call ball, or strike. I've yet to see one say; "Well, it was not very transparent on the center. The path of the ball had some coloration. There was some "Lack of confidence" in your swing."So, yes, keep'em coming and call it what it is. Be Thor's Hammer!
It doesn’t drop off under 200 hz, but it does have a bump into 8 ohm speakers > 14 kHz or so. So many good amps available for around $400, it’s just worth it to spend the extra money.
It feels like I have found the real-life Dr. Stupid. Unfortunately, he's not nearly as entertaining as the Ren + Stimpy Dr. Stupid, and he likely knows even less about what sounds good.
I always enjoy your videos even though the only thing I have for "Hi Fi" is a Zenith C845 with phono input. Thanks. I am thinking of upgrading to the Zenith X337, so if someone would send you one of those I'd like to see a review!
If the Yamaha A-S2100 is your reference integrated amp, your listening skill is just at a amateur level. Try Krell FPB amps or at least the Bryston amps.
Pushes Klipsch 600M II speakers, adequate for the application. WiiM app is quite robust. Don’t care about specs so much. $800 investment, sounds good to me.
Come on now there is a very good reason why primary SINAD (THD+N) tests are done at 1 KHz. It's that our hearing system is most sensitive in that area and amplifiers do similar to it. Cheap class D amps are getting close to getting my recommendations with voltage pump regulation implementations and becoming load independent enough (to 7~10 KHz). Still if you want a cheap amplifier that will have proper power output tho with increased noise on high levels of output and quite deacent in the normal driving area for let's say mid sensitive home speakers and will serve you good for many years go for cheap Yamaha in R-S/A-S 20x range and pair it with something like WiiM Pro with remote (both separately). It will cost you in worst case 70 $ more but if you find such Yamaha cheap it can even cost you less. If you want one that will behave better and all the way up try to find one of old A-S/R-S 700 as second hand or old stock if you are lucky. Those will retain full CD quality (96 dB) when pushed hard and we are talking about poorer amplifiers not DAC's and your speakers won't be on such (THD) level (best lowest distortion planar headphones [Stelth] are and on very short distance). There are other benefits of high passing mains (to get distortion down) but you need more then vogue Linkwitz third order high pass filter to do a proper crossover to begin with. Edit: for me it's simple if power amplifier passes 83~85 dB mono and 86~88 dB SPL white noise (-20 dB true peaks) calibration test on desired listening spot with given speakers and preferably with still some headroom left not over heating or soft clipping it passes it's home use purpose.
Unfortunately 90% of the general populous don't give a flying fawk about multi-tone tests or room correction or if something is bit perfect or not...Watching a reviewer try and describe sound or what they hear with fancy buzzwords is almost laughable. "The title track sounded mid forward but analytical???" LOL 🤦🏻♂️ The audiophiles get it and understand but that is the 10%. Ya gotta walk before you can run and IMO Wiim offering products in the $100 to $300 range has been pretty solid! A $70 usb dongle with a Saber DAC chip can do wonders for sound quality...Even if it's entry level. Teach and share your knowledge and don't slag on others...Some who are just better at this than you...If you "want a brutally honest review" of what we see here...The orange suit jacket is pretty badass though! 🤘🤘
I have a pair of JBL LSR-308 (I think hard to remember) with a class D amp in each monitor speaker. They can be made to clip very easily and over the few years I've owned them have diminished in their power levels. Class D isn't the best it seems.
My problem with this video is that Scientific Audiophile is generalising Class D amps. Just remember amps, regardless of topology, are more than just the op-amps, it's the power supply and analogue implementation as well. Modern, honestly rated Class D amps are excellent. Wiim simply cut corners with the amplification here to get to the price. It doesn't matter whether it's Class D or not.
@@MohsinWadee I own 3 Class D amps. None of them are very comparable in actual power to AB amps I own. Sure that may not be the case with all of them, but in general they are made to save costs.
@@MichaelBruceTaos which amps do you have? Because modern Class D amps like most newer NAD amps are the complete opposite of what you describe, and they have power to spare. It seems to me you and the person who made this video have not been keeping up. I'm not talking about toys like the Wiim Amp or Fosi, I'm talking about real hifi amps. Also, are you aware that Linn uses Class D in many of their products? Are you aware that Mark Levinson's new Daniel Hertz hifi amps are Class D?? So please stop generalsing, cos with modern Class D amps, it's just plain wrong. The quality of an amp is largely defined by the quality of its components, power supply and analogue outputs, regardless of whether it's Class A/AB/D.
Hilarious that this guy expects people to take him seriously when his video looks like it was shot on an IPhone 3g and mic was as noisy as his set is dull. So his testing is precise but his production is absolutely terrible? If he’s doing a skit I guess it did make me laugh a little.
![[#2024MAMA] G-DRAGON - 무제(Untitled, 2014)+POWER+HOME SWEET HOME+뱅뱅뱅+FANTASTIC BABY | Mnet 241123 방송](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Ox29z5Nf1Uk/mqdefault.jpg)
Your Yamaha A-S2100 reference amplifier is a 23kg push-pull symmetrical amplifier. When it was available on the market, the combined price of the amplifier and CD player set was ~ 3000 dollars! The WiiM AMP is available for $330! They don't play in the same league! Let's take a look at this small class D amplifier, entry level. The WiiM amplifier paired with a pair of high-sensitivity 88-95 dB speakers will be sufficient for most people who want to enter the world of HiFi with a starter kit. The dynamics can be increased by connecting a subwoofer, the WiiM's software provides a great option with a low pass filter to do this effectively. Room correction, parametric EQ and other niceties. The WiiM AMP's price-to-value ratio is simply jaw-dropping, the best on the market. And yes it has flaws, it's not perfect, but for this price it's forgivable! My respect to you, I am an amateur hobby music listener!
Comparing apple to orange !
Comparing apple to orange. But at the same time, expecting the apple to taste like an orange... I believe this review makes clear the WiiM Amp isn't high fidelity (Hi-Fi). You will not be getting into Hi-Fi with this, is what I take out of the video. Doesn't mean it's not a good product.
Hi there, what similar amplifier would you buy to pair with a pair of Quad S1 speakers for around 1000$? I have the Quad Vena but it broke and it doesn't have Airplay.
@@Iuckylukey TOPPING LA90 DISCRETE + WiiM Pro Plus ~1300$ ; Other power amp: AUDIOPHONICS AP300-S500NC Power Amplifier NCore NC502MP
I’m currently using a WiiM amp with a pair of Sonus Faber Nova II while my main amp is being serviced. System sounds good, despite being a huge mullet!
Great review !!!! You hit on all, and more points I was thinking about watching the other reviewers. We have some old speakers and at low to moderate volumes it does perfectly fine. It also takes up minimal space and my wife can use it without difficulty. Would I prefer to get something more expensive and powerful, certainly would. I would most likely never use it to it's fullest. There's a time and place for everything, and because of it's size you can place it almost everywhere. Sometimes okay is good enough.
I am always entertained watching your reviews. A few chuckles are worth a lot! I look forward to more! Thanks
Thanks!
Nice honest review and great delivery! - Appreciate your time and effort. Pretty much confirmed my suspicions so I'm going with your alternative recommendation for a small bedroom system.
Thank you so much Sir for introducing me to the wonderful music of Diane B. I cannot grasp why I'd been missing out for so long...
She’s all I listen to - except when I listen to other music.
Glad people like you are here to provide accurate information
Nobody's safe from being torched by the Scientific Audiophile, l love it🤣 You're like the sheriff of this little TH-cam town and justice is being served swiftly! Too many outlaws here spitting nonsense and it needs to be cleaned up 🤣
Ha! Never thought of myself as the Sheriff Audiophile.
@@scientificaudiophile Well, I will cast the first vote then! You are doing a needed service sir. ;-)
😂😂 brilliant, well said 👍😂
@@michaelwright1602I’ll also be lying vote forward to the scientific audiophile
Welcome to the age of instant noodle amplifiers and petite size amplifiers.
I am thankful for your reviews
What do you use for test equipment in your lab?
Thanks
Don't get the wrong impression. I'm not heavy into testing, so nothing but a 4 ohm resistor, voltage and amp meters. The purpose is NOT to show equipment tests, those are best left to people with Audio Precision analyzers and other such test equipment. I simply to back up what I and many others have heard, the WiiM amp does NOT get as loud as it's specs would indicate. I was writing this review prior to Erins Audio channel testing and showing the issue he found.
@@scientificaudiophile Yeah, you're using a simple amp meter, which is quite inadequate for what you are trying to show. So as you say it's best to leave this testing to people like Amir with an Audio Precision analyser instead.
Let's call it unscientific 😂
@@gurratell7326if the only goal is measure how loud an amp goes, you dont need to be a pseudo scientist like amir to measure that. Go back to your ASR cult.
I find myself liking your video more than once. Keep up the good work!
Now that was a solid review, and I actually learnt something. I'm playing around with these little Chinese amps and am actually enjoying the experience. For the money, they are pretty darn good, but I would say to get the most out of them, it is best to have sensitive speakers, 95dB or higher, and a way to boost the line level input to as you stated, 4.5v. I did that with a Douk line level booster, and these little amps open right up, and can be very dynamic. My ZA3 will be here tomorrow. I already have the V3 and a pair of the A07's. I also have a pair of the Sparkos, I liked the TI op amps that the little amps came with. The Sparkos were a bit veiled, even muddy sounding on my system. I user a WiiM Pro to stream, PS Audio DAC/Preamp, Zu DW6 Supreme speakers.
That's a great setup. Congratulations.
I don't think speakers need to be quite as sensitive as that, though agree that they won't play well with 85db/m stand mounts. The Fyne F501s go plenty loud with the V3 and they are 90dB sensitive. So too do my Wharfedale Elysian-4 s at 92dB though I wouldn't choose to use the V3 with them.
I've also tried it with Revel M106s at 87dB and, while the combo lacks a bit of dynamic oomph it is still pretty good.
@@jimfarrell4635 I'm partial to sensitive speakers, as I like to listen at low volumes. Just me. I have never gotten the desired sound out of a tougher to drive speaker. Just me. On EDIT: I just picked up a very difficult to drive pair of Magnepan LRS+, and am blown away. ;-)
@@joelcarson4602 I just picked up a pair of the Magnepan LRS+ speakers, and had to drag out my old Emotiva XPA2... The Fosi ZA3 drove them without breaking a sweat, which was cool. But, that Class D 2 dimensional sound was there... Enter the Emotiva. First world problems. And these LRS+, the hype is true. I cannot believe the sound out of these, especially after I added an active crossover and a pair of those little REL T-Zero MKIII subs... I just received the Danny Ritchie LRS+ mod kit, cannot wait to redo that crossover. And my Zu's are staying, I still like my tubes. ;-)
Superb down to earth logical review. Revealing the shortcomings in simple effective ways without 15 graphs.
Glad it was helpful!
I'm from wisconsin! Thanks for the Wisconsin shout-out
Any time!
Thanks for the great review. I am using a WiiM Amp Pro on my secondary system (paired with KEF Q150’s and Klipsch sub). Room is 16x16. EQ and bass mgt in app is really excellent for fine tuning. Does fine power wise but there are some tracks which are more demanding for the amp.
Very nice!
Very solid review. Shouldn’t be earth shattering that a budget product like this won’t do everything well. It seems many keep looking for the sub $300 unicorn. This product would be great for a non-critical application and I would consider it.
Exactly. It’s why it’s running my outside speakers.
For a non-critical application I would just get a refurbished AB amplifier and add a Wiim mini. Done deal.
@@scientificaudiophile This is no English grammar, but that's OK for nonnative English speaker... I guess 🤷♂️
Probably your best video to date
Humor and facts
Your testing is welcome as is Erin’s
Too many shills on TH-cam
Amir may be a wanker, but some of what he is doing is worthwhile
I Heart the way you bring the TH-cam audio channels together 🤔
Amir seems to have integrity, in what way is he a wanker?
I bought this Amp too without big expectations...but i was a little impressed how good it sounds. After i have seen this Video, i did the separation test too...Nothing....absolute Silent when i played the right channel. Maybe they fixed it with an firmwarepdate? As an High-End Audiophile i hate to admit...but it sounds very good (in my combination).
I fully agree with your assessment. Because of the great reviews I also bought 2 of these small class D amps. But I found out quickly, that every half decent 30 year old class AB amp sounds much better. And you don't need 5000$+ speakers to hear that.
Well said!
Scientific Audiophile, as well as critiquing other peoples work, you may want to check your own audio quality on your videos. This is the first one I have watched and the audio quality of your voice is quite poor.
In this case as well as critiquing John Darko you might want to also listen to the quality of his voice using the microphones he has and consider doing something similar or better.
Game, set and match. I have only just found your site and will be watching a lot more. Subscribed.
The trouble is that the likes of Darko know nothing about physics and even less about music. Music is to be listened to as realistically as possible but far too many 'reviewers' forgot how to listen long ago.
Thank you for the down to earth review, so many TH-cam-ers are merely parrots of one another and are afraid to really talk frankly about a given product because they are about followers and personality…and getting graft from audio manufacturers.
Thanks.
That's really interesting about the 1kHz test. I'll stick to my old class A/B iron for in home use. Have you ever listened to a lepai lp-2020a+? I can't figure out why I like the sound of it
Unfortunately I've never listened to the lepai.
So if I have a Wiim amp driving a couple of bookshelf speakers and a sub and it sounds great to me, I'm just a fanboi and wrong and unscientific?
You're all of the above! Enjoy the music.
@@scientificaudiophile Glad I was right to not take you seriously.
Happy Wednesday, Is the AIYIMA A07 Pro TPA3255 a good choice to mate with the WiiM Ultra?
I’ve found all the chip amps lack power when not fed a 4+ voltage. I’d find a used AVR or stereo receiver. However, if space is an issue, get the Aiyima.
@@scientificaudiophile Well I plan to use it for a room sound system with four ceiling speakers. Are there any ceiling speakers you would recommend that would pair well with the WiiM Ultra & AIYIMA A07 Pro TPA3255 combo please? I plan to also hard wire the network and not use WiFi.
@@scientificaudiophile What's your thoughts on going with the Yamaha R-S202BL? Do you know anything about the Rockville amps? If yes, yes or no go? :)
@ I wouldn’t touch Rockville. Low quality parts.
@@scientificaudiophile Happy Tuesday, first I wanna say thank you. So many TH-camr's never assist or respond to any of their videos/content, thank you so much for always replying :). I really would like to go with a smaller chip amp, but I want one that doesn't require me buying a PSU brick that costs more than the amp and is massive in size to drive the little chip amp. Do any exist? lol
What can I say. Love the honest review, but still love my Wiim Amp. If there was a better quality option with the same features available for say 50% extra cost... Replaced my Rotel amp with Wiim, and finally the whole family uses the proper speakers for TV and music (Spotify connect). Yamaha WXA-50 for instance don't have HDMI-ARC.
Thanks for sharing!
The point of the Wiim amp is that you don't get anything with the same features for that price. And while I like the Ikea symfonisk (sonos compatible streamer+dac+amp+speaker system w/o external inputs, nice sound signature, can't play loud, under $300), the arylic products don't convince me as much as the Wiim products. So it seems Wiim amp is the best opf the cheap, while not top notch hifi grade. But what is at that price range.
WiiM Pro with a separate amp. 2nd hand good amps are very cheap..
What was the source material RMS and peak level in dBFS?
Get 2 and run them as mono blocks that should sort channel separation issue.
I just bought 11 for my atmos setup.
Love the review ❤
Glad you liked it!!
Wow, finally a review that has some meat in it. I've learned a lot, thank you. Considering the downsides, it's acceptable for my poorly treated living room & TV amp.
Finally someone explained to me why measurements != good listening experience.
Glad it was helpful!
Wha;?Dissing Amir and cheering for Mr.Robinson?It's like chaos man!!Cats lying down with dogs (watch out Helmholtz)/Like G-d Damn Hieronymus Bosch painting of review confusion.I need a drink
I always buy my milk at the Kwik-E-Mart since it's only 50 cents a gallon. Sure, it's three weeks past the sale date, but an occasional bout of diarrhea is well worth the savings. Now on the other hand, hot dogs ...
I had concerns about the reported cross talk and what real world experience could be so appreciated that a lot. Sold an avr since I wasn't doing surround sound and been looking for a replacement thats easy to use with the TV, i.e. arc capable but it's hard to find something on a budget that's not an avr. Threshold seems to be 1k. Oh well
Scores:
Excellent Review Hans Jr... Your honesty is unmatched in this pool of YT reviewers. Your father has raised you well.
Great Video, I have been tossing up between the Wiim Amp and the SMSL AO300 as an amp/dac combo. If you had to pick between the 2 which would you say is better, as I feel both are sufficient for me, but it is always good to have an opinion from an actual audiophile. Compactness is a big selling point for the Wiim Amp for me as I listen nearfield at low volume on my pc. Looking to get a set of good speakers and connecting to my computer, with some movie watching on a lounge 1-2 away. The screen bugs me on the AO300, it looks nothing like their product images as to how it looks in other videos.
Just getting into the Audiophile space so it is a lot to all take in lol.
WiiM Pro Plus and the Aiyima Max would be my choice. I wouldn’t use either of the above.
@@scientificaudiophile Thank you for the reply, it is very kind of you. Looking at the Aiyima Max, it offers a subwoofer option but as I understand it that it will not be in sync with the volume control, if that is the case what would you recommend with that, I agree with the Wiim Pro Plus too :)
@@j0my77 Yes, it is unfortunate these amps aren't preamps and don't control the volume control, however the WiiM Pro Plus would control the volume, so once your sub is level matched you could keep the Aiyima on a set volume and let the WiiM control the volume.
Nice shot at PFA, and deserved too. Have you seen the ana(DIA)log guy's stuff.....oh boy!?...I had the WiiM Pro for 5 months and then sold it. I went back to the Yamaha WXC 50 just for streaming. I don't use any other of it's functions.
Please don’t take this the wrong way. As I’m grateful you made this video. And am officially a subscriber for life. Anyways I’d love to make the suggestion of taking a closer look at your microphone. It’s very harsh. Especially when coming through my phone speakers, which is how most viewers consume content. I find it concerning that Someone so well versed in audio, has such a rough sounding mic. On another note, great video, thank you for your honesty. It’s a breath of fresh air.
I’m still having mic problems, having used the built in mic on the camera, an expensive Sony mic and an expensive Rode. I think the issue may be the camera itself and I’m going to try recording directly onto the computer, though that makes syncing a pain when editing.
@@scientificaudiophile when you have everything connected go into the sound control panel and make and make sure that all sound enhancements have been turns off. And you can try changing the sample rate to a higher setting since windows likes to set it at the lowest possible option sometimes. The sonar equalizer in the steel series gg app is also surprisingly robust and allows you to edit your mic curve as well.
3:30 I was wrong at UI design all along. All the indicator lights could be various shades of BURNT ORANGE and still totally usable. Damn.
So true!
Can you recommend something that has HDMI , airplay, optical ? In the same price range ?
Yamaha RX-V4A $499, built in MusicCast, eARC HDMI, 8k, 5 channel amplifier, 2 sub outputs.
Denon DRA-800H is $399 w/HEOS. It's a 2 channel amp.
Thanks !
great review!
Glad you enjoyed it
You have now confirmed my suspicions in my case I will be far better off saving up for an integrated amp that can handle complex powerful music and run a WIIM mini streamer with it. 😀
I haven’t finished my WiiM Pro Plus review yet, but early testing indicates you’re on the right track!
The problem with many amplifiers, whether class AB or class D, is the power supply section. External power bricks run out of reserves rather quickly. A power amp rated at 50 watts at 8 ohms 20 to 20,000 hz will perform better if the power supply is actually capable of delivering 100 watts continously to the amplifier circuitry. Just as an analogy, current high end gaming video cards in computers (Such as an Nvidia RTX 4090) can for a few milliseconds draw over 650 watts which have been tripping the protection circuitry in 850 watt premium power supply units. Large bass transients at high volume levels can drain the reserves of many power supplies in amplifiers which can definitely affect signal integrity at other frequencies.
Would you recommend something like an SMSL AO300 paired with a WIIM Pro? I've got a pair of 6ohm ELAC Debut B6.1's so the WIIM amp is likely powerful enough (~90W/channel?) but the channel separation that you highlighted has me a bit worried. I was hoping to limit the amount of stuff on my desk so I didn't want an amp + streamer + DAC and the SMSL at least combines the amp and the DAC. Any thoughts?
Absolutely. Great combination.
I have the SMSL AO300 with WIIM mini and Monitor Audio Silver. It goes very loud. I like it albeit a little bass light, but this is down to the speakers.
Just want to say “Thank you” SA. I bought a second hand Yamaha as 2100 for 900 eur for my second system. Not only it plays phenomenally, but it surpasses my Hegel h190 (just as amp/preamp) from my main setup, which ended up replacing. Unfortunately my unit doesn’t have the famous “Yamaha sound” 😢.
Holy shit! Someone sold a 2100 for $1k? Was it damaged? And please don’t tell me the person wanted to get rid of it because he bought the A-S2200.
@@scientificaudiophile no, he wanted an all-in-one type solution and was aiming to buy a Hegel h590. Usually on the Polish market they sell for around 1200USD mine was cheaper because it has a few scratches on the top plate. Anyway for that price I couldn’t pass on it especially knowing it is your reference amp. The unit is in perfect condition, I’m still amazed how good it is and how in my 10+ amp list is the only that is absolutely quiet when not playing musing, 0 noise. I have fairly sensitive speakers at 91db. It is a joy to watch and use except for the mute function ;). Keep up the awesome work
@@scientificaudiophile and btw. You had the as-3200 and reviewed it. Is it even worth considering vs the as-2100?
@@hugocosta179 Never had the pleasure to review the A-S3200. Is it worth considering? If you find another sucker willing to part with it for $2k or less, than I wouldn't hesitate.
In my case, i bought the wiim amp and replaced the existing 5 year more expensive old onkyo. Better result because i can now equalizer the room and speakers using the built in auto room correction and eq. Besides, 95% of the time i don't listen at the very high volumes where headroom becomes an issue, but i also used the sub management in the app to cut off bass at 35 hz so as not to waste head room. The result is good so although the amplifier does have the problems you list, the father brilliant app mitigates most.
Erin's a good reviewer, IMHO.
He is. This guy, not so much.
Except when he only applies bad measurements to everything except his dynaudios. Those measure like crap. 7 grand a pair.
@@editorjuno Just because you disagree with his findings. The wim is crap.
@@editorjuno He is very correct on this one.
@@swllz -- Who, Erin or the comedian in the orange jacket?
That artifact may be super useful for the perception of coverage in my outdoor speakers 🤔
Ffs I think things and then you say them at the end of the video 😂
Glad you saw the end.
It intrigues me why no one says "what's the catch."
Something that would be *really annoying* in one context may be not a problem in another.
It's obvious that something has to give when you design a budget product.
Hooked up to four Polk patio ceiling speakers. All you need, neighbors enjoy as well.
Great ending!
Finally, an audio reviewer not sugar-coating every damn item.
I got the wiim amp last night for a bedroom set - Netflix and youtube mainly and very occasional music streaming on tidal. Speakers are 88db minimum 6 ohms floorstanders. Sound I’m getting is entry level home theatre standard on Netflix. Dialog sounds thin and brittle. Bass vague and diffused. Flat sounding😮. I’m gonna try the parametric EQ to try to get better sound. Any advice and tips? Perhaps it needs to burn in. Thanks.
No tips really, except keep it on all the time so it gets updates.
I would assume most ppl would use this for streaming music mainly. Nothing against using CD audio test.. but its hard to understand what is worrisome vs what is a non issue.
Great video! Thanks for the testing insight. I got rid of my Peachtree Nova 125 cause it could not drive my Thiel CS 2.3's, I now run a ICEpower 1200AS2 with no problem.
That peachtree is often stratified and given super powers (by fan bois) that it doesn't have. They think it can weld metal with sheer power.
You are a star. Funny, but with at the core a real erudite message on some of the slick, but ultimatly somewhat dubious fellow reviewers out there.....
I have to admit, having always run reasnoble Class A, or AB amps. I have looked recently at the emerging Class D stuff with interest. Not reallly the glut of cheap budget amps from China. But more the interesting Purify and Hypex modules in some of the more advanced and cutting edge European and US units.
I would be very interested in your take on them. I know they measure well generally, and some say they sound very good now (?). Others that they are still thin and not quite there yet, certainly compared to your Sugdens, Exposures, Regas and so on.
You could do a good service to those of us interested in the advancing tech though, and who like your approach. By reviewing some of these pricier but also more leading edge comparable D units.
Thank you Sir.
The Benchmark amp, while not a pure class D, is phenomenal.
I did hear "right channel", when you said I shouldn't be able to. I also heard it on the wiim example, which was louder.
Yes. I’m going to test the cd track by unplugging one rca cable and listen if it bleeds through. If not, my reference integrated amp has a slight channel balance issue as well. Thanks!
My A-S2100 is spec’d at 74 dB at 1 kHz and 54 dB at 10 kHz - and that is considered excellent. Seems like separate amps might be in my future. Yes, this is a car web site: www.806autoworks.com/understanding-specifications-car-audio-amplifier-stereo-separation/#:~:text=Understanding%20Amplifier%20Stereo%20Separation&text=A%20good%20number%20would%20be%20something%20about%2070%20dB.
I completely disagree with this guy to a degree , I don't have or listened to the wiim amp , but I will have to comment after he said class D amps and cheep streamers , I have been in audio for 20 plus years , owned high end audio from most known. Big giants and chased good sound and wasted over a 100k doing it , my last 5.1 system was the b&w CM10 V2 with matching rears and Center , 6 years ago I had the paradigm signature 5.1 with the S8/C5/S2 , and had all in between though out the years , my amps used to be anthem , Yamaha , arcam , Nad. And much more , yes I enjoyed lots of listening and always listened to salesmen talk about measurements , due to a divorce I sold all what I had, about 2 months ago I spotted brand new and the last pair of paradigm S2 in black with the stands and I couldn't resist and got them for 2100 Canadian , now I need a nice amp , when I initially auditioned the speakers at this old man house I was blown away with the image and the base and the depth and details of the sound to the point I thought he had the subs or other speakers running and I had to make sure to see the cables were unplugged from his other equipment , so I asked him what amp running these and he even ran other speakers that sounded as good but the paradigm comes with the PE tweeter so the details were breath taking , I was shocked when he told me an arylic upstream 100 dollars cheap amp
that I never heard of , so a week later I did my search and yes it had a lot of different views and reviews , so I ordered the arylic A50+ , to this day I can't believe my damn ears , all that money I have spent in my life time to realize that I could of done it with a lot cheeper and less headache , and guess what I don't have fancy cables I just regular car speaker cable that I had a bundle of , then I went and researched a soundbar that can come close to a soundbar and seen that the sennheiser amebo plus is a good one so I got one of Facebook for 1200 Canadian also brand new sealed , and that bar is amazing but will never beat 9.2 system but fits my need and my pocket is happy , the moral of the story just like the watch market I chased numbers and figures and spent a lot of money while I could of done all of that for less than 5k Canadian , my subwoofer is off and it's going for sale even though am a base head , as the sound and the base am getting out of the system is unbelievable and localized with out shaking up my place, never believe in numbers and wires and power filters , just believe your ears and what you like , that I learned the hard way.
first and foremost, the negativity and insults directed at other reviewers makes me want to immediately switch you off and not look back. look in the mirror.
Looking back keeps you from looking forward. Very smart not to look back.
What was the amp that you suggested pairing with the Wiim Pro ?
Aiyima A07 Max
I think that would be a great combo, but unfortunately it would miss out on the HDMI (e)ARC which atleast to me is one of the main selling points. So gutted the preamp only units don't feature hdmi ARC...? Any other preamp/streamer combo that would have ARC..?
Thank you for the review. I was going to buy the 'WiiM Amp' for my budget-friendly 'DALI Spektor 1' speakers, but now I'm confused. People, and the author of this channel, what can you recommend in the budget range of $150-250?
Regarding the room - it’s a workspace, approximately 6 square meters in size, which is quite small. I plan to use the speakers as 'computer speakers' by placing them on a small table. So, I'll be mostly near them, and therefore, excessive volume probably isn’t necessary (though it’s always better to have some extra). As for the amplifier (or receiver) size, it would be preferable if it doesn’t stand out too much, considering it will be on the table.
Get the WiiM mini - $89 and the Aiyima MAX amplifier. Under $200.
That's why wattage shouldn't be tested with RMS (sine wave) anymore but AES (kinda pink noise).
Used to be 20hz-20khz all channels driven before the industry resorted to faking through BS 1khz measurements.
sending love to everyone...
Hey Chris, are you going to AXPONA? Would love to hear your thoughts if you go.
Unfortunately not.
I tried to persuade my wife to go to Axpona, but sadly she was unimpressed. We do live in Scotland mind you. Perhaps Munich high end is more realistic.
Thanks for the good review, which amp do you recommand with wiim pro plus ? Best regard
Depends on funds. Under $100 Aiyima Max. $300, two Fosi v3 Mono’s. $500 Emotiva BasX
😂 Well, while I agree with your review both pre recommendation and post recommendation I don't necessarily think John was absolutely off the mark. He never claimed it was better than a number of similar or higher priced units with likely no cross talk. I took his recommendation as value not critical listening value, but as you said, I like it's convenient for another application and is generally good. Overall I'd say, great review. And I will be interested in the back catalog of reviews on Hi Fi of interest. Thanks~
How about use some reasonable measurement devices like an oscilloscope and a signal gen. Multimeter RMS is unreliable. Also measue the RMS of your input signal. Further Uncorrelatd white noise can mathematically only be 66% of the power of a sine by definition. RMS of sine is 1/sqrt(2) amplitude in volt, RMS of white noise is sqrt(3)/3 in volts. P = U^2/R so proportional to volt squared 0.5 vs 1/3.
Excellent idea.
On my headphones I could make out right channel on the reference although much louder on the wiim.
I'll have to crank the volume and listen.
Okay I cranked the volume and there is a little there on the A-s2100. Great listening and thanks!
@@scientificaudiophile 👍
Enjoyed the review!
I'm curious about these streamer amps but need to be convinced that it's worth changing out my decade old tripath amp.
Im in a predicament because what i really want is the wiim amp features but im worried about sound quality versus lets say the ao300. But apparently hdmi cec doesn't work with the ao300 or the loxjie a40. Is my only affordable option with hdmi cec the wiim amp? Would the wiim amp still be a big upgrade for my t-zero+ towers over my fosi audio bt30d (50w per channel)
Not a sound upgrade, but like you said, there's really nothing at this price point that has the features of the WiiM amp.
Have you checked out the Denon AVR x1800H? It has a lot of features for about double the money. Especially if you can get the version that doesn't have DAB and is discounted to €550,- now. But indeed - not at that price point.
Unless your equipment measures TrueRMS within a frequency range of 20 to 20 kHz, your measurements are worthless. I suspect that little yellow one is designed to measure pure sine waves within a small frequency range centered around 50/60 Hz.
Is this pink noise, white noise, and what input level? Your claims on this make no sense. Is your measurement gear a cheap multimeter? Does it have fairly flat response over 20 khz?
I clearly stated multiple times in the video it is "uncorrelated stereo noise". Does it matter if its a mix of noises, does it matter if it's music?
@@scientificaudiophileYes it matters. Big difference in pink or white. And how did you measure it? A cheap multimeter will not pick up that part of the noise higher in frequency. So it will be there and you'll think power output is down. Was it a True RMS meter? What level was this noise file on the CD in terms of dbFS? Did you set levels with the tone and then send the CD signal thru at the same volume setting? What you are claiming here is not how things work.
It's pink noise. I'm also not testing for noise, I'm simply testing for wattage output. It's why I used the A-S2100 for reference. It's yet another data point, as I never said this is all the WiiM amp is capable of. It simply correlates with every other test, not just mine but others as well, that when this amp is fed more than a single tone, it can NOT hit it's spec'd wattage output. Now if you want to prove otherwise, send me the link to your test, be it URL or video, showing the WiiM amp can hit its numbers with more than a 1 khz test tone. Thanks.
@@dennismoore1116 --- These sort of things are why I suggested in a comment that this guy is out of his depth technically. He nuked that comment, of course. He has neither the EE-level knowledge nor adequate test gear to credibly evaluate audio amplifiers. A multimeter and a clamp-on ammeter? Not even a scope (which for audio frequencies are very inexpensive nowadays)? Seriously?
He's *maybe* one rung up the ladder from the likes of Guttenberg, Darko, and Robinson -- but there are a great many more rungs to climb before even a modicum of credibility is reached. He reminds me of Randy -- the "cheapaudioman" -- albeit with a tasty frosting of half-understood technical jargon.
Disclaimer: I personally don't claim to know much more than he does. The difference is I know what I don't know -- that's why I'm not on U-Toob as a "scientific" adviser to the audio world!
@@scientificaudiophile Your testing is wrong. There is no way on earth this amplifier produces just 0.1 watt. That alone should have been a signal for you make sure you have the right setup for testing. I showed multitone at 5 watts. And that has richer spectrum than any music. Why on earth do you claim I only test at 1 kHz? How the heck did you jump the shark from doing satire to trying to test hardware? You need far more knowledge and experience to do this kind of work.
On crosstalk, I showed that in my test but is only a problem with analog input, not digital. Heaven knows we have enough nonsense out there in product reviews on youtube. We don't need more of them.
Finally we have the adequate reviews of such products.
Great review... plus I actually learned something this time! I'm liking Scientific Audiophile more and more.
Glad it was helpful!
The scientic audiophile is now completely confused.
Have you ever been in an establishment eating or drinking and noticed that you are only hearing one channel of your favorite song because the speakers are so far apart? Well, now we can create a market for the cheap amps that have cross talk. The more cross talk the better.
You and me then on our opinion of the Fosi V3.
Please Sir, what amp/streamer + OUTDOOR speakers would you recommend for $500??
The WiiM Amp will be fine if you’re going to use it only as a streamer and not the line input. Pair it with the Polk Audio Atrium 5’s and you’ll have a great setup.
I've watched over ten videos before subscribing. Why? Because I think, therefore, I am. Besides, I have a similar wry sense of humor. I hoped you would try it out with an $800 power cord. It is always a good policy to please physics... Not that the electrons would have noticed it anyway, or the electronics, for that matter. May have even solved the crosstalk between the stereo channels... (crickets).
I also have followed Erin's Audio Corner for a while. He can be more diplomatic than you. Both of you do call something garbage when it actually is garbage.
Thanks for subbing! I'll try to keep the channel real, if undiplomatic.
@@scientificaudiophile I am A-Ok with a lack of diplomacy. Umpires call ball, or strike. I've yet to see one say; "Well, it was not very transparent on the center. The path of the ball had some coloration. There was some "Lack of confidence" in your swing."So, yes, keep'em coming and call it what it is. Be Thor's Hammer!
See, that's where you're going wrong, writing reviews whilst blind drunk...😂 Although I can see that may be the optimal state for some equipment.
I still haven’t heard a single piece of audio equipment that doesn’t sound better when blind drunk. Come to think of it, my cars drive better as well.
if an amp is ruler flat but drops off
It doesn’t drop off under 200 hz, but it does have a bump into 8 ohm speakers > 14 kHz or so. So many good amps available for around $400, it’s just worth it to spend the extra money.
I meant in general not this amp specifically @@scientificaudiophile
New subscriber! Love your approach! Do Audiolab 9000A 😅. That's my amp.
Thanks for the sub! I'll see if I can get an audiolab
I wish someone would talk about how to use the two recommended amps. Im going from an outdoor tv to polk atrium 5 speakers. 8ohm 100w per channel.
It feels like I have found the real-life Dr. Stupid. Unfortunately, he's not nearly as entertaining as the Ren + Stimpy Dr. Stupid, and he likely knows even less about what sounds good.
I always enjoy your videos even though the only thing I have for "Hi Fi" is a Zenith C845 with phono input. Thanks. I am thinking of upgrading to the Zenith X337, so if someone would send you one of those I'd like to see a review!
Thanks for sharing
My ears aren't really that good, in fact, they suck, but it seems ironic that a guy reviewing hifi gear would have such a bad echo in his audio.
I have had to listen to a 1 KHz tone. It can become tedious. Especially when calibrating multitrack tape machines.
If the Yamaha A-S2100 is your reference integrated amp, your listening skill is just at a amateur level. Try Krell FPB amps or at least the Bryston amps.
When was the last time you went to audiologist to tell you how def you are?
Than talk about KRELL...
Pushes Klipsch 600M II speakers, adequate for the application. WiiM app is quite robust. Don’t care about specs so much. $800 investment, sounds good to me.
My watch can push Klipsch speakers adequately.
You sound like a fun guy at parties.
My NAD D3045 more than meets my needs for a great quality, USB enabled ampage.
NAD makes great amps - even class D.
Darko doesn’t listen to music. He listens to sounds.
Trying to like for a third time.
😀
i don't know why, but somehow i like you
Come on now there is a very good reason why primary SINAD (THD+N) tests are done at 1 KHz. It's that our hearing system is most sensitive in that area and amplifiers do similar to it. Cheap class D amps are getting close to getting my recommendations with voltage pump regulation implementations and becoming load independent enough (to 7~10 KHz). Still if you want a cheap amplifier that will have proper power output tho with increased noise on high levels of output and quite deacent in the normal driving area for let's say mid sensitive home speakers and will serve you good for many years go for cheap Yamaha in R-S/A-S 20x range and pair it with something like WiiM Pro with remote (both separately). It will cost you in worst case 70 $ more but if you find such Yamaha cheap it can even cost you less. If you want one that will behave better and all the way up try to find one of old A-S/R-S 700 as second hand or old stock if you are lucky. Those will retain full CD quality (96 dB) when pushed hard and we are talking about poorer amplifiers not DAC's and your speakers won't be on such (THD) level (best lowest distortion planar headphones [Stelth] are and on very short distance).
There are other benefits of high passing mains (to get distortion down) but you need more then vogue Linkwitz third order high pass filter to do a proper crossover to begin with.
Edit: for me it's simple if power amplifier passes 83~85 dB mono and 86~88 dB SPL white noise (-20 dB true peaks) calibration test on desired listening spot with given speakers and preferably with still some headroom left not over heating or soft clipping it passes it's home use purpose.
Unfortunately 90% of the general populous don't give a flying fawk about multi-tone tests or room correction or if something is bit perfect or not...Watching a reviewer try and describe sound or what they hear with fancy buzzwords is almost laughable. "The title track sounded mid forward but analytical???" LOL 🤦🏻♂️ The audiophiles get it and understand but that is the 10%. Ya gotta walk before you can run and IMO Wiim offering products in the $100 to $300 range has been pretty solid! A $70 usb dongle with a Saber DAC chip can do wonders for sound quality...Even if it's entry level. Teach and share your knowledge and don't slag on others...Some who are just better at this than you...If you "want a brutally honest review" of what we see here...The orange suit jacket is pretty badass though! 🤘🤘
not many small amps out there that have CEC over HDMI Arc only this one and the sonos
I have a pair of JBL LSR-308 (I think hard to remember) with a class D amp in each monitor speaker. They can be made to clip very easily and over the few years I've owned them have diminished in their power levels. Class D isn't the best it seems.
My problem with this video is that Scientific Audiophile is generalising Class D amps. Just remember amps, regardless of topology, are more than just the op-amps, it's the power supply and analogue implementation as well. Modern, honestly rated Class D amps are excellent. Wiim simply cut corners with the amplification here to get to the price. It doesn't matter whether it's Class D or not.
@@MohsinWadee I own 3 Class D amps. None of them are very comparable in actual power to AB amps I own. Sure that may not be the case with all of them, but in general they are made to save costs.
@@MichaelBruceTaos which amps do you have? Because modern Class D amps like most newer NAD amps are the complete opposite of what you describe, and they have power to spare. It seems to me you and the person who made this video have not been keeping up. I'm not talking about toys like the Wiim Amp or Fosi, I'm talking about real hifi amps. Also, are you aware that Linn uses Class D in many of their products? Are you aware that Mark Levinson's new Daniel Hertz hifi amps are Class D??
So please stop generalsing, cos with modern Class D amps, it's just plain wrong. The quality of an amp is largely defined by the quality of its components, power supply and analogue outputs, regardless of whether it's Class A/AB/D.
Weird - I cannot replicate the channel separation issue with my unit (input: streaming, output: 6ohm speakers)
Issue is with line input, not digital.
Hilarious that this guy expects people to take him seriously when his video looks like it was shot on an IPhone 3g and mic was as noisy as his set is dull. So his testing is precise but his production is absolutely terrible? If he’s doing a skit I guess it did make me laugh a little.
iPhone 2, just to be accurate.
@@scientificaudiophile that Apple support for older models really is impressive.
You are the Boss..
Lol..🎉🎉🎉❤🎉🎉🎉
Thanks 😆
Love your review, EXCEPT, it is channel separation, and not channel seperation. lol. Sorry, had to mention, but my amp heard it funny.
Why listen to stereo noise in an orange jacket? This is a convenient thing. Find it for $299
Exactly right.