Facts are not always true especially when the other person doing the 'feeling based rant' saying; "Now look what you've done, now (I'm so and so etc..) because of (you) having you believe that almost all your life and sometimes not ever realizing it's NOT who (We truly are) . Mommy Dearest (Movie) comes to mind. Recalling also at the very end; The brother saying to the sister; "She always has the last word" and his sister retorting...; "Does she? Does she really?👀
I worked with Jay for about eight months in 2021. He is amazing and really helped me understand that what happened to me was not my fault. The reactive abuse I struggled with was because of my ex husband narcissist. It has been a journey and a process and I am finally seeing the light as it were.
Hugs to you. I'm sorry you went through that Shame feeling that you thought you were the abuser. I think it's One of the cruelest things victim survivor's struggle w when they begin the recovery path. It took me almost 2 years to believe the counselor and recovery team that I wasn't a narcissist. I was that brainwashed. Even today, 4 yrs now in healing, I still sometimes question my counselors about reacting to abusive people and abusive behavior. By the end of a 22 yrs marriage in a cult family of abusive family AND growing up scapegoat, It's taken 4 years of intensive therapy to feel safe knowing it's ok to be angry. I'm allowed to be angry. Ect... I send you support and such care on ur journey. ❤️❤️❤️
I'm watching this with uncontrollable tears running down my face, I didn't expect this as I haven't wept for a very long time, but the two of you have just given the child in me the reassurance, understanding and encouragement I always wanted, but never had. Perhaps it's time to embrace the child still within me and tell her it was never her fault and ask her forgiveness.
One thing I do lately, which works until I sabotage it because I'm borderline, is I thought about people I used to know who were healthy which weren't many but I knew some and I would picture what they would say to me in response to things and then I talk to myself like I'm them and it looks kinda crazy but it's like I do role play with myself
I'm soooo glad you two got together! You are my two favorite speakers on narc abuse! I really appriciate the way you both take a calm, balenced, thoughtful, evidence based approach. It helps to listen to people who can maintain a grounded cadence, because after narcissistic abuse even sudden, grating, or loud pitches can be retramatizing. Thanks for being stable, kind- hearted people it makes a real difference to those of us trying to heal to know there are still decent people in the world! Cheers to you both, good show, good show! You're both real corkers!
I was so pleasantly surprised to see the two of you working together! I'm subscribed to both of your channels and really appreciate your content and look forward to watching the two of you work together! What a great duo❤️
Thank you both so much for this! As a (former… ish) scapegoat, just hearing this is healing. I wish all therapists understood narcissism as you do. Thank you 🙏
@@leahflower9924 sister, We Are Family! No more scapegoat, but certainly a free range family of black stallions riding free of that type of misconduct. Where we accept one another whether we agree or disagree. Where we embrace one another for our strengths and our weaknesses. Where we talk openly with one another without personal criticism or rejection. I welcome any black stallion into the Hills and Valleys that I roam.
That was a super statement , that hit me hard, judging yourself , through eyes of wisdom now , but we didn’t understand when we were a child or when we were being abused by a mate ,and we say why didn’t I protect myself ! We didn’t know we could then , or maybe we tried ,and were crushed by the narcissist!now that we understand what we are dealing with , we grew courage to fight back and gain ourselves back , I know that’s how I feel , and I just left a 17 year sick emotionally abusive marriage, and trying to heal Thankyou so much for helping people like me, iam grateful to have this unselfish kind help from people like you!
Yeah I would have bad experiences outside of the home and then I would get freeze and flight responses and I felt more tied to my family even though I was scapegoat because I was a social cripple, so I would hide from the world and hide from my family in my room
Your analogy about the crosswalk really struck me. The year I awakened to all of this, I was living in a major city in the US. I had escaped from a toxic marriage and was dealing with a toxic workplace. Every day, and I mean every day, I would almost get hit by a car while I was in a crosswalk. It was really scary. I believe I had shrunk myself so small energetically, that the cars just didn’t notice me. This was almost 5 years ago. I take up more space now, and this doesn’t happen to me anymore. Just being noticed and seen were dangerous for me. I’m so glad to have moved on.
I suggest you don’t talk about it to anyone but a good therapist you believe you can trust. People will drool over an opportunity to belittle you & revictimize you. They do this because *they* were abused by their parents & can’t face it,. At least that has been my experience. It’s the last thing you need.
“Kick Me!” Is an old elementary school kid joke. Tape the “kick me” sign to the kid’s back and they won’t know why they keep getting kicked by other kids who see the sign as an invitation. Narcissistic parents put that (metaphoric ) sign on their children’s back long before the child can read. It’s a life defining parenting practice. Be well, friends. Your strength is more than you know.
When I was a very young child I would spend time at my aunt and cousins house. They were loving and would look out for me. My family was a different story - a lot of narcissism, entitlement and hating on each other. When you both were discussing what would help survivors of narcissistic abuse to recover, I felt very comforted like at my aunt’s house. You are both clear thinking and caring.
Thanks very much. This was a brilliant discussion covering so much of my own life experience, (Pleasing parents to gain recognition to feel worthy) ( Meeting someone who worshiped me for who I am, only to find later your never good enough and are a complete failure in so many ways). My Narc came from a deeply dysfunctional family, she portrayed herself as the Cinderella and I was her prince charming. It was my job to rescue her from her abusers. Your point where you refer to 1984 "How many fingers can you see"? really hit home why ( I was the abuser and she the victim) in her false narrative, 20 years together and 22 after discard, and many many hoovers and discards since, she still maintains the false self , even though many of her transgressions are common knowledge. Her troop of flying monkeys go on validating her false self, just as I did all those years. I've been "No contact" for 2yrs , other than triangulated hoovers and then triangulated abuse for not excepting the hoovers, I'm free. I now see her as a very sick person who has lived her whole life pretending to be somebody else. When you mention " Malignant" I take that to mean they never discard the victim completely rather put you on a shelf for later when they're short of supply. I got to see the emotional 2yr old when I confronted her by exposing what lay behind her mask. It terrifies the covert abuser when they realise they've been found out. They are sick people , who do horrible things , and in the case of my Narc will never be free to be their true self. Once you except there will be no recognition of how they abused the trust and love you've given them, life gets better. Always remember "2+2 makes 4" no-matter what they say. "That's not true", "I don't remember that", "That's not how it was", "I think you imagine things", "You don't know that" . A never ending supply of gaslighting and projection. I could go on and on!. Sorry for the long rant 😊, As the saying goes "It's good to talk". Thanks again.
We have much in common, relationships such as these can be horrific to the point where you wonder how on earth you managed to survive them, I found my greatest strength came from the knowledge of what, and who these people really are, and learning how to recognise the narcissist is the key we need to protect ourselves against them.
Thank you so much for the section on boundaries!!! There is so very much victim blaming - literally cannot be violated without nearly everyone saying dismissively that I have poor boundaries and am codependent. I had gleaned that I had to be vigilant about safety every second, or else it was my fault.
If you had a rich home that had been robbed by someone who gained your trust with the plan to steal from you, would you blame yourself for their betrayal? Are you powerful enough to have forced them to commit the crime against yourself? They and their minions want you to stay stuck in that thought-trap so they can keep pillaging.
@@CristinaAcosta I blame myself for everything, I'm closest to a borderline but for me I look at myself as someone who has self hate and self sabotage disorder
I thought this was a really good conversation, and I think it likely will have importance to it beyond just the diagnostic criteria to people because of the way it brought out both the motivations and details of the experiences of trained mental health professionals in observing the effects these kinds of people have across many cases. Thanks for the effort in putting this together and distributing it.
Last year I introduced a middle aged family member to narc abuse. Dramatic, denial, avoidance, disbelief, squirming in the mind. When I showed a vid flying monkies oh my gosh. anger severe reaction. "I'm no one's flying monkey". We viewed vids together over the months, but...... They were triggers for ptsd. So I text this vid I think it's wonderfull your interaction team work. The person won't have time to view untill around the end of the month. 😳. I've been asked not to discuss the subject. "Let's talk about other things". Maybe it will be viewed maybe not. Some times things take time. Facing ones self and family is traumatic. We aren't screwed up. 🤺💐
I hope that we all get to be more mindful of how our abusers affected us and if we choose to raise a kid in this world we won't pass the unprocessed emotions so one day there will be fewer narcissistic people
When I was little, my mother literally said this...I had to convince her that I meant it. She also said it was a lie because it wasn't meant and thus punished me even more.
This is so good. last year a narc channel scrolled, entered wow. That's me that's them. Life is not the same worse in some ways better in others. That thing that sticks Half safe people are not safe. 🤺💐
It was such a brilliant conversation, and it was so great listening to you both. Yes, despite everything does, a child knows when is loved, with narcissistic parents is different. Thank you gratefully for this video!
I started watching and I just cried uncontrollably. I watched this video for 4 hours, because I had to stop a lot of times just to calm down. I know that this happens at some type of the healing proccess and it will go away, but the feeling that my life just started basically a few months ago is horrible. I'm 18 and everytime I look at people and they seem happy is just break my heart. Like I feel like I need to learn everything now that I was supposed to learn for 18 years and I feel like I'm behind everyone. I don't even know what people in my age talk about or how often they talk and meet with eachother and the fact that non of them invite to anywhere and always reject when I try to invite them somewhere, while I hear them talking about where they went is just too much for me. ;(
Many questions. Many answers Recovery Separation Distancing I am You are Me you Parent child Accusations blame fault guilt Evaluation judgment opinion object subject The world is perfect The world is imperfect Where's the balance? want need Dependent Independent Symbiosis Safe - not safe Meditate contemplate Right wrong Give take If one could change one aspect of ones life what would that be? Chain of events Every event brings one here. Where is this place? Recovering is clarity Alone singular one This channel is the right time at the wrong time The wrong time at the right time I "guess" I'm ready The energies think believe I'm ready. I am ready I am not afraid What comes, comes. Flexibility spontaneity Impromptu I hurt for what could have been and will not be. What will be now? What will now be? Fate destiny Is life a mid way at the carnival wheel of fortune, Luck of the draw ? This to shall pass. Peace be with you 🤺💐
I would love to hear your take on this. I went no contact and set boundaries blocked them on social media. I continued to get fed information from people from her church. Knowing people I know that she did. Then after 6 months the bomb hit. She is getting married. Using text and words to make it familiar to me. I was doing it for my own self care. But she made sure she left me then continued to take stabs at me and in sense “destroy me”. Her words. Sickest thing i ever went through and am still going through. Knowing she set me up to say i was her soul mate and the one. Then 6 months later she is marrying a guy? And making it feel as she went no contact and she is moving on. She gaslit my boundaries to make sure I know she left me not the opposite. Crazy making!! Last thing. She makes my mind go to. You didn’t meet my standards. She also used God to justify it. Her words “God will find someone else” anytime i would stand firm against her abuse. Reason for watching videos. :) once again thanks for the content
Yes, you don't exist as yourself, you behave for others. Every step toward a more healthy lifestyle is stopped by someone in your immediate surroundings. ✋️ When you find a way to side step their control they distract, and even purposely injure you and those who depend on you. Be true to your own truth, own your feelings. Don't let their control take your time and energy. 🧡
In Christ Jesus, you can. In your own strength, NO. Its a process nevertheless. I say this from the perspective of one having been married over a decade to a sociopathic narcissistic abusive on every level man! The fear of this man was real. The abuses lived through and experienced where real. What our children experienced was real. When you goto the police and are told, well marriages have problems do you have proof? .. when you goto doctors to finally report why your health is failing and get ignored. When the spouses psychiatrist tells you to your face he is mentally sick.... His whole family thru his lies hate us, yet none have met us. Finding out i was his 5th wife and my babies having to hear him yell,curse and abuse me, having all of us walking on eggshells and always being made to feel like we where the problem and having to always say im sorry.. Than the Lord Jesus opened my eyes to see HE didnt create me to be a doormat but a helpmate. He came home one day to find i had filed divorce. Fast forward to current day, the children are in my custody fully, he skipped to another state and has already remarried. My children and i are free!! Free and able to be who we were meant to be...ourselves, not what we were expected to be! If it was not for the Word of God and my unwavering faith in Jesus Christ, i would have lost my mind. As that was what he was hoping to happen. Or he hoped i would die. Scripture is clear what the devil means for evil. God can turn around for good!
@@1Gibson Sorry to hear that you allowed yourself and your children to endure abusive behaviour by your husband. To 'recover' from narcissistic abuse doesn't mean that the memories and emotional scarring miraculously vanish. 'Recovery' means learning to understand why it occurred, how to process the information (abuse/events), to have the ability to compartmentalise, to learn how to manage and protect the scars, and to lead a more fruitful life. There is only one way a human can do this and that is by their own desire and actions. Psychological counselling, CBT etc, but not by the belief in an imaginary being. If you are teaching your children to believe that your imaginary friend jesus christ was how you saved the family dysfunction, then all you're doing is continuing the abuse towards your children. Child indoctrination is abusive. Teach your children how to think, not what to think, so they can make better decisions in their lives than what you have. Have you actually read the bible? I have... the bible depicts jesus christ to be one of the most narcissistic characters in fiction I've ever read. My advice to you would be to seek scientific based psychological evidence to support your ongoing recovery from abuse.
Jay reed you have finally saved my outlook I never knew until now. The entire family is having a celebration of life for the grandma whom is and was old money I opted out. She didn’t even leave a non monetary item. But for the rest- here’s a house, here’s 180 acres plus the estate- and on and on why would I go to be punished. Boy my mother has turned them against me since day one. My grandma knew it and yet didn’t care. Now I’m in a narc relationship in which I thought he was just an unhappy ass nope NARC. The more I shine the harder they try to demonize me
28:00 I knew something wasn't quite right about my mother's treatment of me by 3 onwards. I think it goes in cycles... you realize that something is wrong and you are being treated unfairly but then a short while later you get a small act of kindness or normalness and then dismiss the realization you had. Your mind wants to block out the truth. Also, even very small children have an intuitive sense of how things are supposed to be... that mothers love their children. You see it in the behavour of other mothers as well as mothers in TV programs etc.
So heartbreaking. My horrible relationship with my mom. I was approached by an agent at a young age and told my mom I wanted to do it…. Of course I didn’t do it because it was about my interests.😢 so many examples in life I recall.
You mentioned transactional analysis. Will you be talking more about that in a future video? Can children be tested to determine if they are being subject to abuse? (Especially emotional, psychological)
Dear Darren and Jay, looking back I identify 'n few utter narcisists. In one channel someone mentioned the fact of the way the talk. It dawned on me... yes! There were people that spoke in a way that irrotated me. Could not know why. Like Megan M.... So I could exactly pick these people out! The talk fast... Rambling, either too soft or too loud. I thought about it and realised the were selfish, nasty, gossip ing, talking on and on and say little of substance. Could you maybe tell your subscribers more! A very good way. To spot them
Jesus said do not judge. The late child psychologist Haim Ginott said same. His book Between Parent and Child has helped me out of despair & angst, many times. May all who survive find the road to recovery.
not "judging" is advice that abusers love to give. "who are you to judge" - belittling you. "judge not" - dont hold me accountable. we absolutely should judge. its not about fairy tale fantasies of somehow personally condemning someone's eternal soul. its about holding people accountable for their current behavior.
You don't mention that it could be a child who is the narcesisst and puts siblings and the whole family in crisis and no one will think it could be the child who is the narcidist , instead the parents are investigated and blamed. You have to upgrade your knowllege, sory to say but if you are talkning like you do, it will be even more worse
Who raised the child? The other siblings? Becaue if the siblings were raising the child then that's your problem. Parenting is your job! My sister is a pain in the ass too, she would beat me, control me, coerce me, start fights and it was hard to breathe next to her. But she was the product of th e same shitty parenting the difference is that as older she was in a position of power to transfer anger and abuse.
You are thoroughly deceived. Narcissism has nothing to do with upbringing. Narcissism is a congenital brain injury. Empathy and understanding for others is non-existent. To compensate for this innate, damage, the narcissistic child has an outstanding unimaginable ability to mirror and manipulate, the world and especially his parents and siblings. See narcissism as a parasite. They live by sucking all the energy out of their close relatives and friends, they have an innate talent to not be seen, an innate talent to tinker with your thoughts which means you blame the innocent, just like you do. You are a prime example of not *seeing* what is actually happening in your family. Parents and siblings of a narcissist are all deceived and blinded. Parents normally love their children just as siblings normally love their siblings. Normally loving a narcissistic child makes the parents immediately blind and codependent and can be perceived as narcissistically insane, crazy, deceitful, etc. If a sibling is a narcissist, (it's in the genes, search your family you will find more), the whole family becomes treacherous, hooked and co-dependent as in the concept of "flying monkeys*. This madness and isolation that later all family members are forced into is the consequence of a narcissistic child. So there are narcissistic children, born narcissists who then become parents and who gain more power over the new family. If you imagine that a parent can raise a child to become a narcissist, you are completely blind , and basically cheated. Sorry to say but you have to do a deeper tracing of when and how the narcissistic, family became narcissistic. It could be one parent, rarely two because a narcissist doesn't like competition. It could also be a child or a child and a parent. Especially the narcissists who are introverted are very difficult to trace. The so-called *covert narcississt* these are also the most toxic.
Huh that's Darren McGee and I think he's wonderful. I have watched several of his videos and I think he comes across really intelligent and easy to understand.
Re uploaded from last Wednesday. Apologies everyone I'd forgotten to adjust the sound before uploading. Hope this is a bit better
thanks for the re upload, i was disappointed to not be able to hear it the first time. hope you do more conversations like this in the future.
Facts are not always true especially when the other person doing the 'feeling based rant' saying; "Now look what you've done, now (I'm so and so etc..) because of (you) having you believe that almost all your life and sometimes not ever realizing it's NOT who (We truly are)
.
Mommy Dearest (Movie) comes to mind. Recalling also at the very end;
The brother saying to the sister;
"She always has the last word"
and his sister retorting...;
"Does she? Does she really?👀
I worked with Jay for about eight months in 2021. He is amazing and really helped me understand that what happened to me was not my fault. The reactive abuse I struggled with was because of my ex husband narcissist. It has been a journey and a process and I am finally seeing the light as it were.
Hugs to you. I'm sorry you went through that Shame feeling that you thought you were the abuser.
I think it's One of the cruelest things victim survivor's struggle w when they begin the recovery path.
It took me almost 2 years to believe the counselor and recovery team that I wasn't a narcissist. I was that brainwashed.
Even today, 4 yrs now in healing, I still sometimes question my counselors about reacting to abusive people and abusive behavior.
By the end of a 22 yrs marriage in a cult family of abusive family AND growing up scapegoat,
It's taken 4 years of intensive therapy to feel safe knowing it's ok to be angry. I'm allowed to be angry. Ect...
I send you support and such care on ur journey. ❤️❤️❤️
Nice as a scapegoat I love his views on the scapegoat's world
I'm watching this with uncontrollable tears running down my face, I didn't expect this as I haven't wept for a very long time, but the two of you have just given the child in me the reassurance, understanding and encouragement I always wanted, but never had. Perhaps it's time to embrace the child still within me and tell her it was never her fault and ask her forgiveness.
One thing I do lately, which works until I sabotage it because I'm borderline, is I thought about people I used to know who were healthy which weren't many but I knew some and I would picture what they would say to me in response to things and then I talk to myself like I'm them and it looks kinda crazy but it's like I do role play with myself
Read some John Bradshaw and Peter Walker ❤️
Pete
I'm soooo glad you two got together! You are my two favorite speakers on narc abuse! I really appriciate the way you both take a calm, balenced, thoughtful, evidence based approach. It helps to listen to people who can maintain a grounded cadence, because after narcissistic abuse even sudden, grating, or loud pitches can be retramatizing. Thanks for being stable, kind- hearted people it makes a real difference to those of us trying to heal to know there are still decent people in the world! Cheers to you both, good show, good show! You're both real corkers!
I was so pleasantly surprised to see the two of you working together! I'm subscribed to both of your channels and really appreciate your content and look forward to watching the two of you work together! What a great duo❤️
Thank you both so much for this! As a (former… ish) scapegoat, just hearing this is healing. I wish all therapists understood narcissism as you do. Thank you 🙏
You are not a scapegoat.
You are a black stallion now running free of carrying anyone's sins on ur back!!!!
#blackstallion #nomorescapegoat
Love your name I always wanted a scapegoat club in real life or maybe even a scapegoat colony lol
@@leahflower9924 sister, We Are Family! No more scapegoat, but certainly a free range family of black stallions riding free of that type of misconduct. Where we accept one another whether we agree or disagree. Where we embrace one another for our strengths and our weaknesses. Where we talk openly with one another without personal criticism or rejection. I welcome any black stallion into the Hills and Valleys that I roam.
@@leahflower9924 thanks! actually, I have a TH-cam channel where a few of us hang out. New scapegoats always welcome! 😄
That was a super statement , that hit me hard, judging yourself , through eyes of wisdom now , but we didn’t understand when we were a child or when we were being abused by a mate ,and we say why didn’t I protect myself ! We didn’t know we could then , or maybe we tried ,and were crushed by the narcissist!now that we understand what we are dealing with , we grew courage to fight back and gain ourselves back , I know that’s how I feel , and I just left a 17 year sick emotionally abusive marriage, and trying to heal Thankyou so much for helping people like me, iam grateful to have this unselfish kind help from people like you!
Good for you. We can't fix people who believe they are perfect. Sad.... for them!!
A good answer to “why didn’t I?” Would be fear. Fear of making a mistake, retaliation, fear of getting dead.
A flat out "NO" to a Narc is like a bomb going off in their head. Stand well back!!!!
Yeah I would have bad experiences outside of the home and then I would get freeze and flight responses and I felt more tied to my family even though I was scapegoat because I was a social cripple, so I would hide from the world and hide from my family in my room
Fear of dead pets or dead kids.
Your analogy about the crosswalk really struck me. The year I awakened to all of this, I was living in a major city in the US. I had escaped from a toxic marriage and was dealing with a toxic workplace. Every day, and I mean every day, I would almost get hit by a car while I was in a crosswalk. It was really scary. I believe I had shrunk myself so small energetically, that the cars just didn’t notice me. This was almost 5 years ago. I take up more space now, and this doesn’t happen to me anymore. Just being noticed and seen were dangerous for me. I’m so glad to have moved on.
People look at me like I'm from Mars when I speak about this topic. Amazing talk. Thanks for sharing!
You are so welcome I'm glad you enjoyed it
I suggest you don’t talk about it to anyone but a good therapist you believe you can trust. People will drool over an opportunity to belittle you & revictimize you. They do this because *they* were abused by their parents & can’t face it,. At least that has been my experience. It’s the last thing you need.
AWESOME!! I LOVE JAY REID. Thanks Darren for having him on. I love you too Darren.
“Kick Me!” Is an old elementary school kid joke. Tape the “kick me” sign to the kid’s back and they won’t know why they keep getting kicked by other kids who see the sign as an invitation. Narcissistic parents put that (metaphoric ) sign on their children’s back long before the child can read. It’s a life defining parenting practice. Be well, friends. Your strength is more than you know.
When I was a very young child I would spend time at my aunt and cousins house. They were loving and would look out for me. My family was a different story - a lot of narcissism, entitlement and hating on each other. When you both were discussing what would help survivors of narcissistic abuse to recover, I felt very comforted like at my aunt’s house. You are both clear thinking and caring.
Thanks very much. This was a brilliant discussion covering so much of my own life experience, (Pleasing parents to gain recognition to feel worthy) ( Meeting someone who worshiped me for who I am, only to find later your never good enough and are a complete failure in so many ways). My Narc came from a deeply dysfunctional family, she portrayed herself as the Cinderella and I was her prince charming. It was my job to rescue her from her abusers. Your point where you refer to 1984 "How many fingers can you see"? really hit home why ( I was the abuser and she the victim) in her false narrative, 20 years together and 22 after discard, and many many hoovers and discards since, she still maintains the false self , even though many of her transgressions are common knowledge. Her troop of flying monkeys go on validating her false self, just as I did all those years. I've been "No contact" for 2yrs , other than triangulated hoovers and then triangulated abuse for not excepting the hoovers, I'm free. I now see her as a very sick person who has lived her whole life pretending to be somebody else. When you mention " Malignant" I take that to mean they never discard the victim completely rather put you on a shelf for later when they're short of supply. I got to see the emotional 2yr old when I confronted her by exposing what lay behind her mask. It terrifies the covert abuser when they realise they've been found out. They are sick people , who do horrible things , and in the case of my Narc will never be free to be their true self. Once you except there will be no recognition of how they abused the trust and love you've given them, life gets better. Always remember "2+2 makes 4" no-matter what they say. "That's not true", "I don't remember that", "That's not how it was", "I think you imagine things", "You don't know that" . A never ending supply of gaslighting and projection. I could go on and on!. Sorry for the long rant 😊, As the saying goes "It's good to talk". Thanks again.
We have much in common, relationships such as these can be horrific to the point where you wonder how on earth you managed to survive them, I found my greatest strength came from the knowledge of what, and who these people really are, and learning how to recognise the
narcissist is the key we need to protect ourselves against them.
“Everyday and twice on Sunday.” The life of the scapegoat until awareness and freedom.
Thank you so much for the section on boundaries!!!
There is so very much victim blaming - literally cannot be violated without nearly everyone saying dismissively that I have poor boundaries and am codependent.
I had gleaned that I had to be vigilant about safety every second, or else it was my fault.
If you had a rich home that had been robbed by someone who gained your trust with the plan to steal from you, would you blame yourself for their betrayal? Are you powerful enough to have forced them to commit the crime against yourself? They and their minions want you to stay stuck in that thought-trap so they can keep pillaging.
@@CristinaAcosta I blame myself for everything, I'm closest to a borderline but for me I look at myself as someone who has self hate and self sabotage disorder
I wish there were someone I could process all of this with, regular counselors and therapists just don’t get it.
Love u Jay 💕🌈☮️ Great discussion 💫 Ur so right, malice and cruelty and dehumanisation is very difficult to come to terms with / experience.
I subscribe to both Jay and Darren. Thx for the collaboration!! 🤓💖🙏
I thought this was a really good conversation, and I think it likely will have importance to it beyond just the diagnostic criteria to people because of the way it brought out both the motivations and details of the experiences of trained mental health professionals in observing the effects these kinds of people have across many cases. Thanks for the effort in putting this together and distributing it.
Last year I introduced a middle aged family member
to narc abuse. Dramatic, denial, avoidance, disbelief,
squirming in the mind.
When I showed a vid
flying monkies oh my gosh.
anger
severe reaction.
"I'm no one's flying monkey".
We viewed vids together over the months, but......
They were triggers for ptsd.
So I text this vid
I think it's wonderfull
your interaction team work.
The person won't have time to view untill around the end of the month. 😳.
I've been asked not to
discuss the subject.
"Let's talk about other things".
Maybe it will be viewed maybe not.
Some times things take time.
Facing ones self and family
is traumatic.
We aren't screwed up.
🤺💐
This is such a good conversation and this work is so important for more to become aware of and able to see.
I have been following Jay from the very beginning. His inside to the narcissistic abuse is incredibly…
I hope that we all get to be more mindful of how our abusers affected us and if we choose to raise a kid in this world we won't pass the unprocessed emotions so one day there will be fewer narcissistic people
Two of my favorites. Love from Albuquerque.
Wonderful, heartfelt, informative conversation between you both. ❤
"Agreeing with me isn't enough; you have to believe it"
When I was little, my mother literally said this...I had to convince her that I meant it.
She also said it was a lie because it wasn't meant and thus punished me even more.
Following Darren and one of his videos Re: Covert Narcissist Husband was Right On!
Nauseatingly so spot on. 😑
This is so good. last year
a narc channel scrolled,
entered wow. That's me
that's them.
Life is not the same
worse in some ways
better in others.
That thing that sticks
Half safe people are not safe.
🤺💐
It was such a brilliant conversation, and it was so great listening to you both. Yes, despite everything does, a child knows when is loved, with narcissistic parents is different. Thank you gratefully for this video!
Would love to hear you two doing an episode specifically about narcissistic mothers
Thank you so much for this chat & all the ground y'all covered in this video. I really appreciate the both of you sharing this.
Thanks Darren. Really enjoy your content. Both of you have added a lot of great understanding for me
I started watching and I just cried uncontrollably. I watched this video for 4 hours, because I had to stop a lot of times just to calm down. I know that this happens at some type of the healing proccess and it will go away, but the feeling that my life just started basically a few months ago is horrible. I'm 18 and everytime I look at people and they seem happy is just break my heart. Like I feel like I need to learn everything now that I was supposed to learn for 18 years and I feel like I'm behind everyone. I don't even know what people in my age talk about or how often they talk and meet with eachother and the fact that non of them invite to anywhere and always reject when I try to invite them somewhere, while I hear them talking about where they went is just too much for me. ;(
Many questions.
Many answers
Recovery
Separation
Distancing
I am
You are
Me you
Parent child
Accusations blame fault guilt
Evaluation judgment opinion
object subject
The world is perfect
The world is imperfect
Where's the balance?
want need
Dependent Independent
Symbiosis
Safe - not safe
Meditate contemplate
Right wrong
Give take
If one could change one
aspect of ones life
what would that be?
Chain of events
Every event brings one here.
Where is this place?
Recovering is clarity
Alone singular one
This channel is
the right time
at the wrong time
The wrong time
at the right time
I "guess" I'm ready
The energies think
believe I'm ready.
I am ready
I am not afraid
What comes, comes.
Flexibility spontaneity
Impromptu
I hurt for what could have
been and will not be.
What will be now?
What will now be?
Fate destiny
Is life a mid way
at the carnival
wheel of fortune,
Luck of the draw ?
This to shall pass.
Peace be with you
🤺💐
I would love to hear your take on this. I went no contact and set boundaries blocked them on social media. I continued to get fed information from people from her church. Knowing people I know that she did. Then after 6 months the bomb hit. She is getting married. Using text and words to make it familiar to me. I was doing it for my own self care. But she made sure she left me then continued to take stabs at me and in sense “destroy me”. Her words. Sickest thing i ever went through and am still going through. Knowing she set me up to say i was her soul mate and the one. Then 6 months later she is marrying a guy? And making it feel as she went no contact and she is moving on. She gaslit my boundaries to make sure I know she left me not the opposite. Crazy making!!
Last thing. She makes my mind go to. You didn’t meet my standards. She also used God to justify it. Her words “God will find someone else” anytime i would stand firm against her abuse. Reason for watching videos. :) once again thanks for the content
I hear ya! I’m amazed at how well they flip the script so effectively.
Thanks. Very inspiring.
Yes, you don't exist as yourself, you behave for others. Every step toward a more healthy lifestyle is stopped by someone in your immediate surroundings. ✋️ When you find a way to side step their control they distract, and even purposely injure you and those who depend on you. Be true to your own truth, own your feelings. Don't let their control take your time and energy. 🧡
You behave for others yet everyone in your family will call you selfish
Oh man , twice in Sunday 🌞
Thank you for sharing
Amazing!!
Jay and Darren ! Yay 💕
Really great discussion.
I wonder if anyone has fully recovered.
One never 'fully' recovers.
In Christ Jesus, you can. In your own strength, NO. Its a process nevertheless. I say this from the perspective of one having been married over a decade to a sociopathic narcissistic abusive on every level man! The fear of this man was real. The abuses lived through and experienced where real. What our children experienced was real. When you goto the police and are told, well marriages have problems do you have proof? .. when you goto doctors to finally report why your health is failing and get ignored. When the spouses psychiatrist tells you to your face he is mentally sick....
His whole family thru his lies hate us, yet none have met us. Finding out i was his 5th wife and my babies having to hear him yell,curse and abuse me, having all of us walking on eggshells and always being made to feel like we where the problem and having to always say im sorry..
Than the Lord Jesus opened my eyes to see HE didnt create me to be a doormat but a helpmate. He came home one day to find i had filed divorce. Fast forward to current day, the children are in my custody fully, he skipped to another state and has already remarried. My children and i are free!! Free and able to be who we were meant to be...ourselves, not what we were expected to be! If it was not for the Word of God and my unwavering faith in Jesus Christ, i would have lost my mind. As that was what he was hoping to happen. Or he hoped i would die. Scripture is clear what the devil means for evil. God can turn around for good!
@@1Gibson Sorry to hear that you allowed yourself and your children to endure abusive behaviour by your husband. To 'recover' from narcissistic abuse doesn't mean that the memories and emotional scarring miraculously vanish. 'Recovery' means learning to understand why it occurred, how to process the information (abuse/events), to have the ability to compartmentalise, to learn how to manage and protect the scars, and to lead a more fruitful life. There is only one way a human can do this and that is by their own desire and actions. Psychological counselling, CBT etc, but not by the belief in an imaginary being. If you are teaching your children to believe that your imaginary friend jesus christ was how you saved the family dysfunction, then all you're doing is continuing the abuse towards your children. Child indoctrination is abusive. Teach your children how to think, not what to think, so they can make better decisions in their lives than what you have. Have you actually read the bible? I have... the bible depicts jesus christ to be one of the most narcissistic characters in fiction I've ever read. My advice to you would be to seek scientific based psychological evidence to support your ongoing recovery from abuse.
Maybe not , but we are now educated and armed , there is power in that !
@@ellasladek3124 Hopefully, yes.
thank you
Jay reed you have finally saved my outlook I never knew until now. The entire family is having a celebration of life for the grandma whom is and was old money I opted out. She didn’t even leave a non monetary item. But for the rest- here’s a house, here’s 180 acres plus the estate- and on and on why would I go to be punished. Boy my mother has turned them against me since day one. My grandma knew it and yet didn’t care. Now I’m in a narc relationship in which I thought he was just an unhappy ass nope NARC. The more I shine the harder they try to demonize me
Love the content, also the way you say "hoyever" sure reminds me of Ryan Hollinger
Thank you 👍
mini project mayhem lmao i love it! what a perfect idea for someone who has been diminished by insane people.
28:00 I knew something wasn't quite right about my mother's treatment of me by 3 onwards. I think it goes in cycles... you realize that something is wrong and you are being treated unfairly but then a short while later you get a small act of kindness or normalness and then dismiss the realization you had. Your mind wants to block out the truth. Also, even very small children have an intuitive sense of how things are supposed to be... that mothers love their children. You see it in the behavour of other mothers as well as mothers in TV programs etc.
So heartbreaking. My horrible relationship with my mom. I was approached by an agent at a young age and told my mom I wanted to do it…. Of course I didn’t do it because it was about my interests.😢 so many examples in life I recall.
You mentioned transactional analysis. Will you be talking more about that in a future video? Can children be tested to determine if they are being subject to abuse? (Especially emotional, psychological)
I made a video on transactional analysis previously you’ll find it in the therapeutic approaches playlist. Hope you find it interesting 👍
May I get the name of the gentleman from California for the therapy?
36 years with a Covert Narcissist Husband
His name is Jay Reid. So sorry for your long term suffering.
I wonder what state each of you are located in?? I want to get some counsel.
Are you kidding? Ou, but there would be a second date, with recorder on. So much fun, that would be awesome!
I haven’t seen Fight Club either. 😬
Dear Darren and Jay, looking back I identify 'n few utter narcisists. In one channel someone mentioned the fact of the way the talk. It dawned on me... yes! There were people that spoke in a way that irrotated me. Could not know why. Like Megan M.... So I could exactly pick these people out! The talk fast... Rambling, either too soft or too loud. I thought about it and realised the were selfish, nasty, gossip ing, talking on and on and say little of substance. Could you maybe tell your subscribers more! A very good way. To spot them
Hi. Any help groups for a 26 year old narc survivor. Im legakly blind so im dependent on him but want out ya know.
♥️
Jesus said do not judge. The late child psychologist Haim Ginott said same. His book Between Parent and Child has helped me out of despair & angst, many times. May all who survive find the road to recovery.
not "judging" is advice that abusers love to give. "who are you to judge" - belittling you. "judge not" - dont hold me accountable.
we absolutely should judge. its not about fairy tale fantasies of somehow personally condemning someone's eternal soul. its about holding people accountable for their current behavior.
You don't mention that it could be a child who is the narcesisst and puts siblings and the whole family in crisis and no one will think it could be the child who is the narcidist , instead the parents are investigated and blamed.
You have to upgrade your knowllege, sory to say but if you are talkning like you do, it will be even more worse
That's completely different. Even if your child is a narcissist, your child didn't raise you.
Who raised the child? The other siblings? Becaue if the siblings were raising the child then that's your problem. Parenting is your job!
My sister is a pain in the ass too, she would beat me, control me, coerce me, start fights and it was hard to breathe next to her. But she was the product of th e same shitty parenting the difference is that as older she was in a position of power to transfer anger and abuse.
You are thoroughly deceived. Narcissism has nothing to do with upbringing. Narcissism is a congenital brain injury. Empathy and understanding for others is non-existent. To compensate for this innate, damage, the narcissistic child has an outstanding unimaginable ability to mirror and manipulate, the world and especially his parents and siblings. See narcissism as a parasite. They live by sucking all the energy out of their close relatives and friends, they have an innate talent to not be seen, an innate talent to tinker with your thoughts which means you blame the innocent, just like you do. You are a prime example of not *seeing* what is actually happening in your family. Parents and siblings of a narcissist are all deceived and blinded. Parents normally love their children just as siblings normally love their siblings. Normally loving a narcissistic child makes the parents immediately blind and codependent and can be perceived as narcissistically insane, crazy, deceitful, etc. If a sibling is a narcissist, (it's in the genes, search your family you will find more), the whole family becomes treacherous, hooked and co-dependent as in the concept of "flying monkeys*. This madness and isolation that later all family members are forced into is the consequence of a narcissistic child. So there are narcissistic children, born narcissists who then become parents and who gain more power over the new family. If you imagine that a parent can raise a child to become a narcissist, you are completely blind , and basically cheated. Sorry to say but you have to do a deeper tracing of when and how the narcissistic, family became narcissistic. It could be one parent, rarely two because a narcissist doesn't like competition. It could also be a child or a child and a parent. Especially the narcissists who are introverted are very difficult to trace. The so-called *covert narcississt* these are also the most toxic.
It’s insane the people who think they can fool anyone by blaming children when it was actually the parents who instigate the dysfunctional patterns.
Judgemental.
This man on the right here is so creepy, I think Jay Reid is great but this other guy is not a nice person I feel.
Huh that's Darren McGee and I think he's wonderful. I have watched several of his videos and I think he comes across really intelligent and easy to understand.
@@brianreed8271 I agree! I love their content and appreciate both so much!
Wait what? Darren is awesome, your comment HARRY, ...IS CREEPY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Darren is kind, nurturing and wise. He is a force for good in this dangerous and hurting world.
💞