In 1985 I read Tart's "Altered States of Consciousness" and enjoyed it very much. He's a contributor. But as regards ESP I won't believe a word of it until it's repeatable on any given day to a level of high significance by scientists around the world.
Fair enough. But we don't know if it's something that can be effected any day equally. And scientists can be bought; didn't a *major* university just be found this last year to be faking their science results? I'm sure if you ask around town you can find some good scientists & subjects to do a fair little test.
That thing about EEG as "brain radio" entusiams that was pretty misguided from a start and it maked skeptics even more cynical when it faded. But it was easy from a start to see why Telepathy obviously must use more sophisticated physics than Maxwell's Equations. If it would be the case you could block telepathy by Faradays Cage or interfere with it, or in the best case it would open possibilities for Phildick like evil psychic attacks scenarios. But if it's (and it must be that or at least some maybe less common version of) Quantum Entangled. Then Telepathy is about flow of information in the Universe that can be stoped by nothing. And it's not the matter of "gift" or "genes that make brain a more powerful radio transmitter" . It's the matter of Sir Roger Penrose and Stuart Hameroff Theory which Objective Reduction part ensures that there's only one Universe no Quantum Phildickian postulated by Everett. And the Orchestrated part ensures combined with works on loss consciousness in plants with Anesthesia and with Antonio Damasio work. That Cousciousness vanishes under anesthesia and coma. And Psychodelics according to Anirban Bandyopadhay and Jack Tuszyński experiments are clear and direct opposite of Anesthesia!
It is imperative that what lies above and outside of the reality of this universe remains hidden from us so that we are not compelled to seek it out prematurely.
@@nmedics952 Posting links all over a channel with no description? That's kind of a Christian, Muslim or sex site, clickbait thing to do. What's your spam for?
@@danielpaulson8838 myea, there are people like that, in fact i don't think they are people, i think most of them may be spam bots that google has not detected yet. Or just malicious users.
Tell me please what is actually evidence for psychokinesis? I mean they're some strong cases for Telepathy or Synchronicity tested in laboratories, but psychokinesis? Parapsychologists are so eager to talk about it but no one has ever demonstrated in the lab that he causes object to move with his mind? Am I right? What's the evidence?
"For many years I have worked with researchers doing very careful work in [parapsychology], including a year that I spent full-time working on a classified project for the United States government, to see if we could use these abilities for intelligence gathering during the Cold War.... At the end of that project I wrote a report to Congress, stating what I still think is true. The data in support of precognition and possibly other related phenomena are quite strong statistically, and would be widely accepted if it pertained to something more mundane. Yet, most scientist reject the possible reality of these abilities without ever looking at the data." --Professor Jessica Utts, 2016 American Statistical Association Presidential Address It has to be assumed that similar classified programs are still in existence today.
@Katherine Stone: I disagree. There's no good reason to think that people who make decisions about funding such programs have any special ability to appreciate what parapsychology is about. I imagine that the chances of such programs continuing today to be pretty low . . . maybe 1 in 100.
@@QED_ In somewhere like China where the topic is less of a taboo, it's almost a certainty that there would be active programs today using these techniques. Could the U.S. really afford to fall behind in this area?
Robert asked why ESP is not stronger. Here's the answer Robert: because we spent so little studying it, we don't even know how to harness the power yet. Think about electricity. When it was first discovered a couple hundred years ago, it was so insignificant that it was used as a parlor trick as entertainment. Most folks at that time had no idea how important and powerful electricity would be for people in future centuries.
and/or because the studies have mostly been done in laboratories. Stephen Braude emphasizes this in / The Limits of Influence / . One of his examples is falling in love. Its effects are quite large; but try doing this for real in lab.
i was in one of his esp studies while in college.(not that i had any) i read his book/'Living the Mindful Life by Charles T. Tart ...which i recommend...i emailed him about it and he said, "i made his day." a very grounded, down to earth person.
I regularly have out-of-body experiences and have never used the experience to conclude that I would survive death. Just throwing it out there. I might be an anomaly but it's worth noting not everyone comes to that conclusion.
Have you ever experienced evidence that your OBE is more than a hallucination? Like, have you ever seen something that you couldn't have known about that you later confirmed was real? Like seeing an item in a particular place that you didn't know about before the OBE that turned put to really be there? Not that I'd necessarily believe you if you say yes. 😉
@@BugRib Nope, I haven't experienced any of that. I wouldn't use the word hallucination - although technically that could be correct it really doesn't do the experience justice. Personally I am of the opinion OBEs, at least the intentionally induced ones are identical to a specific type of lucid dream called wake induced lucid dream (W.I.L.D.) I am amazed how little the comparison comes up in debates about the subject outside the small community of lucid dreamers. We argue about this stuff all the time!
@@BugRib The big question is: when someone has an OBE, are they in the same plane of existence as us? Several books and reports from varied projectors from different cultures give us a hint that no. They all have stories of similar places but it seldom takes place in physical reality.
Tell me please what is actually evidence for psychokinesis? I mean they're some strong cases for Telepathy or Synchronicity tested in laboratories, but psychokinesis? Parapsychologists are so eager to talk about it but no one has ever demonstrated in the lab that he causes object to move with his mind? Am I right? What's the evidence?
I never head OBE but I experienced many both Synchronicities and remote viewing (I don't think it counts as Out of the Body). It's science at least in my case because I'm not concluding that this is "immortal soul" or confirmed teaching of any religion. Moreover I say that confirming or debunking it should depend on success of Stuart Hameroff Orch Or Theory so at least in my case ψ experiences are science! even in the rigorous Popperean sense! But nevertheless I had numerous ψphenomena that are hard to explain by accident. For example I loose my ID in the tram as a high school student (without wallet, other documents and with no meaningfull information about me no phone number, no home address, only my photo, surname and ID serie number). I was also not on any social media at that time. My mother yelled at me, called me a moron and well I could do nothing... Except... That several hours later I felt a sharp urge to go on bicycle and when I was going away from my house I felt another impulse to go into the odd direction... And I saw a man I could not help but slow down and stare at him... And then he screamed -Hey stop! And he was the guy that picked up my ID far away from my house we met in the distance from both his and my house, had no idea how to track me down and it looked as though we both departed simultaneously to meet each other! My other a bit uncomfortable ψlike experiences are... well I'm sometimes able to see unfamiliar car registration numbers before it turns around the corner to the point I could see it. It's again easy to fall psychotic or exaggerate it. But I tested it for statistical significance and there's clearly something to it. I didn't like it at first I thought it implies Idealism, but then I learned about Penrose and Hameroff and Bems papers about students being able to predict where randomly generated picture will appear before algorithm even gets started. I also know all about Rupert Sheldrake dog experiment, Anton Zeilinger Bell Distant Quasar experiments and well I'm not Dualist obviously but I consider myself rather Cousciousness Physicalist (in Sir Roger Penrose sense) World is real and can be known and explained by Physics, there's plenty of underestimated discoveries in parapsychology. Although I'm definitely skeptical about more extreme stuff like reincarnation or psychokinesis.
This is very surprising: "I think the question of fears of ESP really starts rising up and I think most parapsychologists are not interested in dealing with that" "if it's the case that the ESP is real to some degree and if it's real to some degree it's real" I think I've said similar. ROFL "she didn't leave her body it was just telepathy" I'd love to remember my dreams, but by the time I can get to the alarm clock -poof- they're gone.
The meditative flash and commensurate visions that ground human spirituality are certainly esp. If you want to increase S/N ratio then decrease the driving function from the hippocampus.
I think that it ,psychic phenomena,is of a different character and doesn't run the same way as normal space/time and therefore is almost untestable in a lab.maybe whatever causes it is not made from the same substance as the normal universe and doesn't interact with it via the normal methods.
Of course. As more researchers, resources and money flowed into Nuclear Physics, initial promising results were found wanting due to psychological factors of the researchers fear of showing results.
The statistics suggest *something* is being measured. I think it's measuring politics: that Senator who ran at the sight of the military psychic is what i'm talkin about.
Thinking by feeling and then translating into common laguage is the best way to be creative because it's how the brain works: the brain is a feeling machine. Natural selection has inflated the *feeling* part of the brain: the solution to the hard problem is in the suface area of the cortex. ... somewhere in there😁 (hint: "electrotonics"). Brain as comfort finder means that any conceptual construct is ultimately a landscape with comfy and uncomfy spots.
I really want to believe in this parapsychology stuff, but I find it hard to believe that the whole mainstream scientific community is just ignoring strong evidence for it. It seems to me that most scientists would gladly and eagerly accept this stuff if there was really anything to it. Scientists love a mystery. I certainly would if I was a scientist! Besides, consciousness itself seems more mysterious to me than any of this parapsychology stuff. At least things like ESP and telekinesis could in principle have a purely materialist/physicalist explanation. But I don’t see how consciousness could...
There is actually (relatively weak) evidence for parapsychology phenomena, but most mainstream psychologists take it as evidence of problems with our research methods.
Military industrial complex steps in and will strongly dissuade research if groups get “too hot” on the trail. This field has been suppressed for decades. Your point is a fair one but it’s exactly why there has been stagnancy - blackmail, even loss of family members or credentials, are not uncommonly consequences of those who push too far or try to speak out. Nothing conspiracy related whatsoever - have family formerly involved in private ops and can attest to these truths.
@@cirrostratus1 could you expand on this, please? What you’re saying is that anyone who conducts significant research that would show the scientific community that ESP is, without a doubt, real, they are blackmailed or even killed?? Do you have any stories or names of scientists that this has happened to?
I'm a smart aleck kid.. dark matter and dark energy is how it all works.. fields of space in motion flows through matter at the speed of light. Dark matter condenses space. Dark energy expands space.. 0 point creates these two spaces in equal and opposite fields..
Blackholes are by definition singularities.. and a singularity is by definition connected to everything else.. They are 0 points.. their mass is just their value of spatial expansion... because blackholes have mass and therefore gravity they too create the space that warps general relativity.
@@BugRib No, just that how others feel matters. Maybe a bit more than that...; having to do with fundamental data, probably. When it comes to cosmic mind; only the truth has a chance, hence the distinction between Karma and Dharma.
@@BugRib Oops; to your point! Traditional assumption is that one is some how seperate from one's body. The way i see it, local memory and a certain constancy of driving function creates the feeling of personal identity. If the driving function no longer calls up a certain set of memories or, if someone else's memories were substituted; one would not feel themself.
I'd assumed that it was endogenous DMT hyper stimulating various portions of the brain allowing them to process the available information and arrive at a valid solution in less time. The other half would be the ability of the test subject to manipulate the researchers and skew their perceptions of the results in favor of the belief in ESP.
@@dsm5d723 Thanx for the very useful comment. Were you by any chance in the vicinity of the exhaust from a combustion process before your spontaneous trip?
0 is fundamental.. period.. but there in lies the question.. how do you study nothing.. this right here is the issue we find ourselves.. attempting to get closer to truth. Nothing is the truth.
Wow. Parapsychology is hard science and physics is easy science. Because replicating is too hard. Yes, it is hard to find proof of you throw away the scientific method.
Very vague and disconnected. A superficial presentation and conversation. Your program is far to rich to publish this Robert. You're too good and worthy. Other than a touch on pre-cognition, total disappointing, BS run around or as they say woo, woo. Where are the specific deep dives? Professor Erwin Cory on Johnny Carson comes to mind.
In 1985 I read Tart's "Altered States of Consciousness" and enjoyed it very much. He's a contributor. But as regards ESP I won't believe a word of it until it's repeatable on any given day to a level of high significance by scientists around the world.
Fair enough. But we don't know if it's something that can be effected any day equally. And scientists can be bought; didn't a *major* university just be found this last year to be faking their science results?
I'm sure if you ask around town you can find some good scientists & subjects to do a fair little test.
Please have one of these talks with Dean Radin. He articulates the best case and has already answered a lot of these questions thoroughly in print.
That thing about EEG as "brain radio" entusiams that was pretty misguided from a start and it maked skeptics even more cynical when it faded. But it was easy from a start to see why Telepathy obviously must use more sophisticated physics than Maxwell's Equations. If it would be the case you could block telepathy by Faradays Cage or interfere with it, or in the best case it would open possibilities for Phildick like evil psychic attacks scenarios.
But if it's (and it must be that or at least some maybe less common version of) Quantum Entangled.
Then Telepathy is about flow of information in the Universe that can be stoped by nothing. And it's not the matter of "gift" or "genes that make brain a more powerful radio transmitter" . It's the matter of Sir Roger Penrose and Stuart Hameroff Theory which Objective Reduction part ensures that there's only one Universe no Quantum Phildickian postulated by Everett.
And the Orchestrated part ensures combined with works on loss consciousness in plants with Anesthesia and with Antonio Damasio work. That Cousciousness vanishes under anesthesia and coma. And Psychodelics according to Anirban Bandyopadhay and Jack Tuszyński experiments are clear and direct opposite of Anesthesia!
It is imperative that what lies above and outside of the reality of this universe remains hidden from us so that we are not compelled to seek it out prematurely.
Charles E. "Big Daddy" Tart is a legend and a pioneer.
I love the direction of your current episodes. We're in motion again.
th-cam.com/video/z89yscisntg/w-d-xo.html
@@nmedics952 Posting links all over a channel with no description?
That's kind of a Christian, Muslim or sex site, clickbait thing to do. What's your spam for?
@@danielpaulson8838 myea, there are people like that, in fact i don't think they are people, i think most of them may be spam bots that google has not detected yet. Or just malicious users.
@@glitchedpixelscriticaldamage Agreed. Also perhaps to get a click/view count up on their own channel to drive a YT algorithm.
I just read Charles Tart introduction from Robert Monroe's Journeys out of the Body..written..40+years ago. Excellent thank you
Tell me please what is actually evidence for psychokinesis?
I mean they're some strong cases for Telepathy or Synchronicity tested in laboratories, but psychokinesis?
Parapsychologists are so eager to talk about it but no one has ever demonstrated in the lab that he causes object to move with his mind? Am I right?
What's the evidence?
"For many years I have worked with researchers doing very careful work in [parapsychology], including a year that I spent full-time working on a classified project for the United States government, to see if we could use these abilities for intelligence gathering during the Cold War....
At the end of that project I wrote a report to Congress, stating what I still think is true. The data in support of precognition and possibly other related phenomena are quite strong statistically, and would be widely accepted if it pertained to something more mundane. Yet, most scientist reject the possible reality of these abilities without ever looking at the data." --Professor Jessica Utts, 2016 American Statistical Association Presidential Address
It has to be assumed that similar classified programs are still in existence today.
@Katherine Stone: I disagree. There's no good reason to think that people who make decisions about funding such programs have any special ability to appreciate what parapsychology is about. I imagine that the chances of such programs continuing today to be pretty low . . . maybe 1 in 100.
@@QED_ In somewhere like China where the topic is less of a taboo, it's almost a certainty that there would be active programs today using these techniques. Could the U.S. really afford to fall behind in this area?
Charles is looking pretty good at 84 years old in this video and is sharp as ever!!! 09.02.24
Robert asked why ESP is not stronger. Here's the answer Robert: because we spent so little studying it, we don't even know how to harness the power yet. Think about electricity. When it was first discovered a couple hundred years ago, it was so insignificant that it was used as a parlor trick as entertainment. Most folks at that time had no idea how important and powerful electricity would be for people in future centuries.
and/or because the studies have mostly been done in laboratories. Stephen Braude emphasizes this in / The Limits of Influence / . One of his examples is falling in love. Its effects are quite large; but try doing this for real in lab.
Wow very interesting.
I never knew about this man.
Im gonna buy some of his books.
Very interesting gentleman..
i was in one of his esp studies while in college.(not that i had any) i read his book/'Living the Mindful Life
by Charles T. Tart ...which i recommend...i emailed him about it and he said, "i made his day." a very grounded, down to earth person.
Great stuff! Thank you.
I regularly have out-of-body experiences and have never used the experience to conclude that I would survive death. Just throwing it out there. I might be an anomaly but it's worth noting not everyone comes to that conclusion.
Have you ever experienced evidence that your OBE is more than a hallucination? Like, have you ever seen something that you couldn't have known about that you later confirmed was real? Like seeing an item in a particular place that you didn't know about before the OBE that turned put to really be there?
Not that I'd necessarily believe you if you say yes. 😉
@@BugRib Nope, I haven't experienced any of that. I wouldn't use the word hallucination - although technically that could be correct it really doesn't do the experience justice. Personally I am of the opinion OBEs, at least the intentionally induced ones are identical to a specific type of lucid dream called wake induced lucid dream (W.I.L.D.) I am amazed how little the comparison comes up in debates about the subject outside the small community of lucid dreamers. We argue about this stuff all the time!
@@BugRib The big question is: when someone has an OBE, are they in the same plane of existence as us?
Several books and reports from varied projectors from different cultures give us a hint that no. They all have stories of similar places but it seldom takes place in physical reality.
Tell me please what is actually evidence for psychokinesis?
I mean they're some strong cases for Telepathy or Synchronicity tested in laboratories, but psychokinesis?
Parapsychologists are so eager to talk about it but no one has ever demonstrated in the lab that he causes object to move with his mind? Am I right?
What's the evidence?
I never head OBE but I experienced many both Synchronicities and remote viewing (I don't think it counts as Out of the Body). It's science at least in my case because I'm not concluding that this is "immortal soul" or confirmed teaching of any religion. Moreover I say that confirming or debunking it should depend on success of Stuart Hameroff Orch Or Theory so at least in my case ψ experiences are science! even in the rigorous Popperean sense!
But nevertheless I had numerous ψphenomena that are hard to explain by accident. For example I loose my ID in the tram as a high school student (without wallet, other documents and with no meaningfull information about me no phone number, no home address, only my photo, surname and ID serie number).
I was also not on any social media at that time. My mother yelled at me, called me a moron and well I could do nothing...
Except... That several hours later I felt a sharp urge to go on bicycle and when I was going away from my house I felt another impulse to go into the odd direction... And I saw a man I could not help but slow down and stare at him...
And then he screamed -Hey stop!
And he was the guy that picked up my ID far away from my house we met in the distance from both his and my house, had no idea how to track me down and it looked as though we both departed simultaneously to meet each other!
My other a bit uncomfortable ψlike experiences are... well I'm sometimes able to see unfamiliar car registration numbers before it turns around the corner to the point I could see it.
It's again easy to fall psychotic or exaggerate it. But I tested it for statistical significance and there's clearly something to it. I didn't like it at first I thought it implies Idealism, but then I learned about Penrose and Hameroff and Bems papers about students being able to predict where randomly generated picture will appear before algorithm even gets started. I also know all about Rupert Sheldrake dog experiment, Anton Zeilinger Bell Distant Quasar experiments and well I'm not Dualist obviously but I consider myself rather Cousciousness Physicalist (in Sir Roger Penrose sense) World is real and can be known and explained by Physics, there's plenty of underestimated discoveries in parapsychology. Although I'm definitely skeptical about more extreme stuff like reincarnation or psychokinesis.
Thanks Rob!
Dr. Kuhn, you must be psychic. I was just last month hoping you'd chat with Charles Tart. 🙂
Or you have psychic powers because you've put the thought into his brain... :))
Or you had precognition!
@@arlpoon6423 I knew you were going to say that. :)
This is very surprising: "I think the question of fears of ESP really starts rising up and I think most parapsychologists are not interested in dealing with that"
"if it's the case that the ESP is real to some degree and if it's real to some degree it's real" I think I've said similar.
ROFL "she didn't leave her body it was just telepathy"
I'd love to remember my dreams, but by the time I can get to the alarm clock -poof- they're gone.
I'd like to know the name of the book Mr. Tart mentions @ 34:34. I'd love to read it. Something by Edgar Cayce, possibly?
Thanks sir
The meditative flash and commensurate visions that ground human spirituality are certainly esp. If you want to increase S/N ratio then decrease the driving function from the hippocampus.
ie, meditate. Well said.
I think that it ,psychic phenomena,is of a different character and doesn't run the same way as normal space/time and therefore is almost untestable in a lab.maybe whatever causes it is not made from the same substance as the normal universe and doesn't interact with it via the normal methods.
QUANTUM ENTANGLEMENT and esp?
I'd like to know the name of the book Mr. Tart mentions @ 34:34. I'd love to read it.
I think it is Journeys out of the Body by Robert Monroe
Of course. As more researchers, resources and money flowed into Nuclear Physics,
initial promising results were found wanting due to psychological factors of the researchers fear of showing results.
Does it help anyone to know that we're discussing a neurotransmitter with a half life of only minutes inside the human body?
Awesome point!
"I posit experience as one kind of fundamental data": this is what i mean by "Spiritually enabled" in "Spiritually enabled Scientism".
The statistics suggest *something* is being measured. I think it's measuring politics: that Senator who ran at the sight of the military psychic is what i'm talkin about.
That's possible. But they can choose one thing to measure and ignore or obscure a similar thing.
Thinking by feeling and then translating into common laguage is the best way to be creative because it's how the brain works: the brain is a feeling machine. Natural selection has inflated the *feeling* part of the brain: the solution to the hard problem is in the suface area of the cortex. ... somewhere in there😁 (hint: "electrotonics").
Brain as comfort finder means that any conceptual construct is ultimately a landscape with comfy and uncomfy spots.
🙏
Few ’scholars’
DoBe . . .
‘IT” . . .
Better than
Charley Tart 😎
😻
🕊
I really want to believe in this parapsychology stuff, but I find it hard to believe that the whole mainstream scientific community is just ignoring strong evidence for it. It seems to me that most scientists would gladly and eagerly accept this stuff if there was really anything to it. Scientists love a mystery. I certainly would if I was a scientist!
Besides, consciousness itself seems more mysterious to me than any of this parapsychology stuff. At least things like ESP and telekinesis could in principle have a purely materialist/physicalist explanation. But I don’t see how consciousness could...
There is actually (relatively weak) evidence for parapsychology phenomena, but most mainstream psychologists take it as evidence of problems with our research methods.
Military industrial complex steps in and will strongly dissuade research if groups get “too hot” on the trail. This field has been suppressed for decades. Your point is a fair one but it’s exactly why there has been stagnancy - blackmail, even loss of family members or credentials, are not uncommonly consequences of those who push too far or try to speak out. Nothing conspiracy related whatsoever - have family formerly involved in private ops and can attest to these truths.
@@cirrostratus1 could you expand on this, please? What you’re saying is that anyone who conducts significant research that would show the scientific community that ESP is, without a doubt, real, they are blackmailed or even killed??
Do you have any stories or names of scientists that this has happened to?
I'm a smart aleck kid.. dark matter and dark energy is how it all works.. fields of space in motion flows through matter at the speed of light.
Dark matter condenses space. Dark energy expands space..
0 point creates these two spaces in equal and opposite fields..
Blackholes are by definition singularities.. and a singularity is by definition connected to everything else..
They are 0 points.. their mass is just their value of spatial expansion... because blackholes have mass and therefore gravity they too create the space that warps general relativity.
Even informed imagination can only take you so far. Proving its more than your imagination is a whole different story.
It's not just because personal identity is an illusion that one should care about how others feel but, mostly.
You mean we’re all part of one cosmic mind (or something like that)?
@@BugRib No, just that how others feel matters. Maybe a bit more than that...; having to do with fundamental data, probably.
When it comes to cosmic mind; only the truth has a chance, hence the distinction between Karma and Dharma.
@@BugRib Oops; to your point!
Traditional assumption is that one is some how seperate from one's body. The way i see it, local memory and a certain constancy of driving function creates the feeling of personal identity. If the driving function no longer calls up a certain set of memories or, if someone else's memories were substituted; one would not feel themself.
I'd assumed that it was endogenous DMT hyper stimulating various portions of the brain allowing them to process the available information and arrive at a valid solution in less time. The other half would be the ability of the test subject to manipulate the researchers and skew their perceptions of the results in favor of the belief in ESP.
@@dsm5d723 Thanx for the very useful comment. Were you by any chance in the vicinity of the exhaust from a combustion process before your spontaneous trip?
0 is fundamental.. period.. but there in lies the question.. how do you study nothing.. this right here is the issue we find ourselves.. attempting to get closer to truth.
Nothing is the truth.
boogie
No.
Yes.
what??!?
Indeed !
Wow.
Parapsychology is hard science and physics is easy science.
Because replicating is too hard.
Yes, it is hard to find proof of you throw away the scientific method.
"cold sweats in psychology"
I heard not long ago that some are using quintuple-blind experiments. Those experiments follow the scientific method.
Very vague and disconnected. A superficial presentation and conversation. Your program is far to rich to publish this Robert. You're too good and worthy. Other than a touch on pre-cognition, total disappointing, BS run around or as they say woo, woo. Where are the specific deep dives? Professor Erwin Cory on Johnny Carson comes to mind.
Multiple Universe was woo woo once !
I' d like to know the name of the book Mr. Tart mentions @ 34:34. I'd like to read it. Something by Edgar Cayce, perhaps?
Robert Monroe Journeys out of the Body,