I'm with you on the chaos knight lances. Even back in game 2 they always felt just... underwhelming. Almost never saw a reason to take them after the first time I tried them. Crazy that it still holds all this time later.
Regular Chaos Knights of Tzeench are imo are superior option for cycle charging, which is what I think the WC player tried to do. The barrier means they take zero damage each time the go in, and with 3 units you can cycle them allowing for the barrier to replenish. That plus the magical attacks which would help bypass physical resistance from possible Dragon Princes I think make them simply a better pick against HE.
I've always liked triple TZ knights into HE with sword and shield. Very tanky and Dragon Princes are somewhat common in this MU so the magic attacks actually make them decent in that trade.
God I love Hoemasters of Swordith in this matchup. Even if they get chumped by hellcannons or horsemen they still have to dedicate EVERYTHING to remove them.
Lance Knights problem isn't overkill (it's actually pretty hard to waste damage when you account for armor and average infantry health), the new models are literally so big a lot of the entities can't attack while the CB is active because the Knights in front of them block up the middle and back lines. Since CB isn't properly applying the variant which trades defenses for CB is categorically worse, since you trade useful stats for useless ones. If you remove 12 entities from either Chaos Knight unit with no other changes the damage they deal actually goes up, slightly for the shield version, and significantly for the lance version. CA's aware of the issues with the unit (fun fact they also have hitboxes which are too small making missiles hit them less than they should) and is apparently considering how to adjust Chaos Knights including the RoR who are pretty terrible now. No ETA on when that'll be but it is a known issue.
The lances also missing splash on small is a huge issue. There is overkill on anything under 85-90 hp on charge. Regardless of the model, the lance version would do much better if they were given a splash of 3.
@@b.o.b7197 I'm not sure this is the case for a couple of reasons. First, once you factor in armor the 133 WS on the charge often doesn't overkill much beyond chaff infantry. At only 32% AP even moderate armor values can drop the damage significantly, with ~90-100 WS being needed to consistently kill mid tier infantry. When you factor in impact damage being much lower in game 3 the number of units with a significant loss from overkill over the shield version is quite limited. The second reason is more technical, but dividing damage with splash attacks doesn't mean it's being placed on new entities. There isn't any difference in damage application between 3 knights striking 1 entity each, and 3 knights striking the same 3 entities. I don't think the Chaos Knight metadata has enough range to effectively distribute damage with splash attacks without tinkering. I'd need to do more in depth testing to confirm but quite often when splash values are adjusted you don't see much of a gain. Maybe splash 2 with a size of small could be beneficial against chaff, but I'm not confident it would make much of a difference at all.
I think the best part of High Magic is actually just the Lore-passive. Hand of Glory is very cheap and low cooldown so you can just use it as a Shield of Saphery-generator together with Apotheosis.
@@itscurrentyear3054 I've played the Warhammer games for 5 years and watched tons of videos like this, there are too many things to mention. But as this video as an example, the problems with Chaos Knights with lances.
I'm with you on the chaos knight lances. Even back in game 2 they always felt just... underwhelming. Almost never saw a reason to take them after the first time I tried them. Crazy that it still holds all this time later.
Regular Chaos Knights of Tzeench are imo are superior option for cycle charging, which is what I think the WC player tried to do. The barrier means they take zero damage each time the go in, and with 3 units you can cycle them allowing for the barrier to replenish. That plus the magical attacks which would help bypass physical resistance from possible Dragon Princes I think make them simply a better pick against HE.
I think people play Valkia becouse she is quite difficult to snipe plus she can preassure mounted lords, as long as they are not Imrik or Tyrion.
I've always liked triple TZ knights into HE with sword and shield. Very tanky and Dragon Princes are somewhat common in this MU so the magic attacks actually make them decent in that trade.
God I love Hoemasters of Swordith in this matchup. Even if they get chumped by hellcannons or horsemen they still have to dedicate EVERYTHING to remove them.
Lance Knights problem isn't overkill (it's actually pretty hard to waste damage when you account for armor and average infantry health), the new models are literally so big a lot of the entities can't attack while the CB is active because the Knights in front of them block up the middle and back lines. Since CB isn't properly applying the variant which trades defenses for CB is categorically worse, since you trade useful stats for useless ones.
If you remove 12 entities from either Chaos Knight unit with no other changes the damage they deal actually goes up, slightly for the shield version, and significantly for the lance version. CA's aware of the issues with the unit (fun fact they also have hitboxes which are too small making missiles hit them less than they should) and is apparently considering how to adjust Chaos Knights including the RoR who are pretty terrible now. No ETA on when that'll be but it is a known issue.
The lances also missing splash on small is a huge issue. There is overkill on anything under 85-90 hp on charge.
Regardless of the model, the lance version would do much better if they were given a splash of 3.
@@b.o.b7197 I'm not sure this is the case for a couple of reasons. First, once you factor in armor the 133 WS on the charge often doesn't overkill much beyond chaff infantry. At only 32% AP even moderate armor values can drop the damage significantly, with ~90-100 WS being needed to consistently kill mid tier infantry. When you factor in impact damage being much lower in game 3 the number of units with a significant loss from overkill over the shield version is quite limited.
The second reason is more technical, but dividing damage with splash attacks doesn't mean it's being placed on new entities. There isn't any difference in damage application between 3 knights striking 1 entity each, and 3 knights striking the same 3 entities. I don't think the Chaos Knight metadata has enough range to effectively distribute damage with splash attacks without tinkering.
I'd need to do more in depth testing to confirm but quite often when splash values are adjusted you don't see much of a gain. Maybe splash 2 with a size of small could be beneficial against chaff, but I'm not confident it would make much of a difference at all.
I think the best part of High Magic is actually just the Lore-passive. Hand of Glory is very cheap and low cooldown so you can just use it as a Shield of Saphery-generator together with Apotheosis.
Just a random comment to boost the algorithms
Low melee defense on the lances are a problem given how expensive they are
What ever happened to Shaggoth in this matchup absolutely wrecked with budget archaon way better at protecting hellcannon too.
fanillay chariots are able to disrupt formations
These games have so many problems.
Yeah. I still love the series, but it's got a lot of rough edges that need smoothing out
such as?
@@itscurrentyear3054 I've played the Warhammer games for 5 years and watched tons of videos like this, there are too many things to mention. But as this video as an example, the problems with Chaos Knights with lances.
oh yeh, CA sucks at balance and the game is buggy... nothing new@@rubz1390