Sea Guard should have got to stand and shoot against Chaos Knight charge. They can do that reaction regardless of how close the charging unit is and then get to redress the ranks for free. They should probably be deployed in a wide frontage to benefit from that to maximise shots fired.
I have question regarding that tactic…. If you are deployed in large frontage and have a charge declared against you and the new frontage is then outside the charge range is that a failed charge?
I think the question is if the front rank was, say 15 models wide and after the redress was only 5 models wide. If you kept the middle of the unit in the same location but now the flank charge or charge to the front that made it in because it clipped the end of the unit but would have failed to make it in with the new more narrow front rank. Is it a failed charge or you just move the chargers the new full distance even if it would be over their maximum charge range?
at 57:54 2 x Chaos Knights may have died, as there were 4 6's in the to-wound roll which gives longbows Armour bane (1) (page 216). This meant the 2's rolled for armour save wouldn't have saved the chaos knights now that 2+ is the best AS you can have - they would have needed 3's
In the big sword masters combat I think the SM should have been able to fight at the same time due to the Elven special rule giving +1 initiative in the 1st round. I might stand corrected though
I've been saying this after watching my third battle report, this version of the game favors large infantry block formations. The chaff units are niche and supportive by nature. You use them to go behind lines and clean up vulnerable units like war machines and fleeing units. The infantry blocks control the engagement. Chaff isn't going to disrupt heavy infantry formations and they shouldn't. I think they nailed this! I'm not a fan of chariots, I guess in 8th edition they were great to add combat res to overrun a unit with impact hits but in this addition its tough to punch through a line and keep the momentum. Holy cow though, are they ever good at cleaning up chaff and remnants of broken units. Which they should be. Also nailed it! Chaff needs the right targets, otherwise you're just giving combat points to the enemy. Its a distraction, have enough that you need to divert attention to be dealt with. This was done well in the recent dwarfs vs Black Orcs game. A unit of savage orcs screened the black orcs and wasn't dealt with enough firepower, they got into the line and basically won the game taking out a whole bunch of points in squishy ranged units. There was just enough savage orcs there that if ignored were gonna cause problems and they did. Savage orcs screening Blorc line; good chaff, dogo's into chariots; bad chaff. Probably better used to run after the bolt throwers and try to clean up those points. Its tough though the tables are so small and cramped with units how do you really manage to maneuver properly? This Chaos list I feel was biased towards 8th edition, tailor made to alpha strike and overrun. Very unlikely to happen in this edition no matter how much punch you have. Infantry blocks are proving very resilient. Which they should be so I think they nailed that too! I'm really coming around to this edition I started painting up some of my old models I never got rid of.
You’re wrong about chaff. Their whole point is that they are anvils to bait out charges to allow flanking charges from heavy cavalry and elite units. Never has chaff been used for clearing back lines in competitive WHFB. Literally their whole point is to be cheap units to charge block and be sacrificed. The game is played by trading units. Usually it’s stuff like eagles/a chariot/pegasus knights/etc, who can move quickly around the ranks to destroy war machines, lines of archers, etc.
@@Stonehornthat's how it was used in the past. The use has to change, which is what I'm talking about. They are certainly not an "anvil" and rightly so, they shouldn't be. It's a small, loose contingent of open order or skirmishers that should break apart when confronted by an orderly advance of tightly packed formation. The charge bait is less effective because the alpha strike is less effective. The defender will likely just fall back, so stack up all the kills and bonuses and win the combat of ten if you like. The chaff game is now a sideshow act to the main event, which is the way a battle game should be.
I agree with those that loved the handheld cam. Really enjoyed this report, great job. 1:01:40 This was a strange sequence that led to the Swordmasters being flank charged? The enemy should flee directly away from the Swordmasters as they had the highest unit strength. The swordmasters chasing straight forward 2" definitely shouldn't have lead to exposing their flanks. It seemed like the HE player just wheeled them the full 2" away from the Chosen Knights. Very generous! Regardless, absolutely awesome game and I loved watching it.
Hey! A couple of things: as far as I understand, if the target of a charge flees and you don't redirect, you don't make a failed charge, you still move the full charge range. Page 129. Second, still as far as i understand, if you make accidental contact when an enemy breaks and you pursue, the enemy is not destroyed and flees unscathed (well, still badly wounded from the lost combat). Page 131. Let me know what do you think! (I don't want to be pedantic, I want to learn - or better, re-learn the game!
I just double checked. The pursuit in turn 2 where the HE chariot pursued the dogs. They should not have caught the dogs. You move all the fleeing units first. Then you move the pursuing units. The dogs would have ended up beyond the marauder horsemen. They would have also caused a panic check in the horsemen. After that check and any results, then you move the chariot. Given the low marauder horsemen leadership, the most likely result was the horsemen flee also, beyond the dogs. Then the chariot pursues the dogs and wipes them out. If the horsemen pass their panic check, the chariot hits them. The dogs are fleeing, but not caught. There is no “I rolled higher than your flee, I cut you down” rule in ToW that I could find.
In the cursed combat between white lions, the chariot and Chosen Knights, the chosen knights could have counter-charged the chariot to gain charge bonus for spears. Also, the chariot should have +1 Close Order bonus. Anyway, nice batrep guys! Thanks for sharing the voice of The Old World!
The game seems pretty well balanced so far but that choas item that force wizards to roll 3 dice is definitely over powered this edition. You're almost guaranteed to shut down your opponents magic phase
Would love to see a bat rep with the empire and lots of core. I also would love to see a low point game, maybe 1K. It’s probably a lot of peoples first time playing fantasy and it would be cool to see how low point games play out as people build up their armies to 2K.
@@whatfruit7965 that means it doesn’t scale well. And it’s not only elves. Goblins don’t work, Ogres are barely a handful of models and have no board presence at 1k. A lvl 4 wizard is way to powerful at that level. It presents tons of problems. You can teach someone the basics at 1k, but you can’t have a competitive game (I don’t mean tournament competition, just friendly competition) at those levels.
So...if the chaos knights have a 3+, shouldn't the -3 White Lion great weapons killed like 3 more (or caused 3 more ward?) 3-3 is 6, not 5. Do they have a 2+?
Great report guys! Although I am certain that you did see three fully covered models when shooting your doombolt as the models are still on 20x20 bases but you can't actually get three fully covered models in one line on 25mm bases with a small 3" template. The template is missing 2,86 mm in diameter for that.
Why did only 3 dogs fight in the combat on Steve's turn on the right flank? Doesn't the entire fighting rank attack regardless of connection, just max of 1 attack?
Yea i wonder if it’s just a mistake as this was an earlier recorded battle because as far as I can see everyone in the fighting rank fights but they are capped at 1 attack if not in b2b.
This is great batrep work, but man I really dont like the 2d6 casting thing, even in the other gw game systems. The whole power dice system has its issues, but at least there was a choice, now it kinda feels like you just try to cast everything and it randomly does or doesnt happen, and you dont have to think about it
A unit of Lothern Sea Guard may use this special rule when it makes a Stand & Shoot charge reaction. A unit that does so can make a Stand & Shoot charge reaction regardless of how close the charging unit is. Once this shooting has been resolved, the charged unit may make a free redress the ranks manoeuvre, after which it will Hold and await the charging unit.
@@Stonehorn make something thematic with the same effect. Ultimately terrain with different effects, either LOS blocking, movement blocking, or some combination of both makes for better games.
If I'm not mistaken, the charge bonus for spears/lances only works if you travel at least 3 inches. And the initiative bonus on the charge is per inch traveled, up to 3 or 4, depending on the orientation. These 1 or 2 inch charges are getting the maximum initiative and strengh bonus.
You're incorrect about lances and spears, they always get their bonuses. You're correct about bonus Initiative being tied to the number of inches you travel. But thats how we played it.
White lions charging into chaos knights at about 29min. It didn’t look like the initial wheel was included in the charge range - you can’t just do closest point to closest point for measuring.
That High Elf reroll failed casting avoided three miscasts, pretty strong. I run Beasts of Chaos and love the hounds but Vanguard doubles their cost; as said in the video better to take them in small 5-dog units. What's the optimal unit size for infantry? 20, 25, 30 strong?
That's the "Arrows of Isha" rule and it's not an army-wide rule - only Handmaidens of the Everqueen and Sisters of Avelorn have it in their profile. It stacks with the Armour Bane (1) from their Bows of Avelorn for a total of "S3 (S4 for Handmaidens as it's "S as User") AP1 + Armour Bane (2) + Magical Attacks + Volley Fire + Ignores Cover" in terms of dmg output from shooting with BS5 for Sisters and BS7 for the HM. The "Ignores Cover" rule in particular is really nifty there and you can take 0-1 Sisters as a Core unit if your General is a Handmaiden.
1. Chaos armour save on the chosen knights wasn't used. 2. The dogs on the right flank woudlnt have died, the marauder horse catch the overrun first. 3. Lion chariot is Close Order and you didnt include for combat res.
Are those dogs and marauders mostly just chaff, commonly used to control enemy movement and charges? In previous editions, were they hitting harder? Would we have ever expected them to beat elves in combat?
Liking the idea of chrace shock units for flanking. Think they may not be as good as. A brick as they use to be. Also good if your going to break and they are still stubborn on first riund of combat so will likely hold units from pursuing.
I mean, they shouldn’t be as strong as they used to be. White Lions fighting in ranks of 3 ten wide was ridiculous. Horde was such a broken rule in 8th. As was magic.
Small units of 5-7 set up for counter flank charges seem super good, striking at ini 6 with that profile is pretty crazy Not so great on the defensive any more but that’s perfectly fine imho
I think that when you lost a fight with dogs (those that charged chariot) because the chariot struck marauders the dogs should survive. p. 157 of the rulebook ;)
If I'm remembering/readint eh rulebook correct, the fight between the dogs & the chariot around 23 minutes, every dog in the front row should have been able to fight, pg 145 'The Fighting Rank' & figure 145.1
HE player kept forgetting the +1 Ini on 1st round of combat. I think the US5 requisite to cause panic will be faqed to ''US5 at start of combat'', otherwise i agree is quite wierd atm.
Question about those 3D printed bases from miniwargaming. Are they solid or are they open underneath like GW bases (making them perfect for adding magnets)?
Do you get +1 combat res from charging and/or outnumber? I don't think john got those during the first big combat with the white lions and lion chariot with prince, vs chaos chosen knights, so wanted to double check (haven't read the rulebook yet obv)
Pretty sure Steve forgot every single armour save except one, on his marauder horsemen armed with shields and light armour against those archers towards the middle/end.
Now I see why you don't think much of the swordmasters but seriously nothing really should stand up to a flank charge from chosen chaos knights. The sword masters in the side should have gotten to strike at the same time as the knights but I doubt it would have made much of a difference.
It’s super punishing against low levels like you said but still useful even against level 4s It makes them significantly less likely to get powerful spells off and then you don’t have to risk miscasting on the dispel And if you’re a real madman running 2 wizards you can double drain and pretty much shut down casting entirely
hmm looks a big weird to have swordmaster and lions with so many ranks. IMO its a waste of points, since they never can hit. Esp. the lions, since swordmaster at least can have drilled. When the swordmaster attacked the chaos knights they should have to redress their ranks before the attack movement to get more units to attack, could have got at least two or three more attacking models.
What happened to the cool intro? I remember some vids having a 'time before sea elves, sigmarites, a time for the old world' or was that on miniwargamings channel? Otherwise lets goo, classic fantasy!
@@MountainMiniatures I am referring to around 11.26 when the chaos chariot is being shot at. T5 wounds on 6's so those wounding shots are ab1 or not? Sry don't have the books yet cause I am travelling.
I’m sure the editing is a bit tedious but it’s so much more enjoyable to watch than just a raw live stream. Thanks so much for the battle reports!
Great to see the handhelds come back a much more engaging and shorter format 😊
Agreed.
agreed 100%. These 3.5h batreps are uhhhh
Agreed
Agreeeed. So nice🎉
Agree. I've been avoiding watching a lot of the newer videos because I hate the live format
Sea Guard should have got to stand and shoot against Chaos Knight charge. They can do that reaction regardless of how close the charging unit is and then get to redress the ranks for free. They should probably be deployed in a wide frontage to benefit from that to maximise shots fired.
True
I have question regarding that tactic…. If you are deployed in large frontage and have a charge declared against you and the new frontage is then outside the charge range is that a failed charge?
@@Pbblaster8434when you redress ranks, the front rank stays in the same location, just gets wider or narrower.
I think the question is if the front rank was, say 15 models wide and after the redress was only 5 models wide. If you kept the middle of the unit in the same location but now the flank charge or charge to the front that made it in because it clipped the end of the unit but would have failed to make it in with the new more narrow front rank. Is it a failed charge or you just move the chargers the new full distance even if it would be over their maximum charge range?
@@MrFallonscthis ☝️
Steve, this video illustrates how to field a close combat high elf army. Just bring more archers to charge the enemy with.
at 57:54 2 x Chaos Knights may have died, as there were 4 6's in the to-wound roll which gives longbows Armour bane (1) (page 216). This meant the 2's rolled for armour save wouldn't have saved the chaos knights now that 2+ is the best AS you can have - they would have needed 3's
loving the TOW coverage and really appreciate the little rule correction insert, really helps everyone learn the game. Your a legend.
In the big sword masters combat I think the SM should have been able to fight at the same time due to the Elven special rule giving +1 initiative in the 1st round. I might stand corrected though
100% they could have. Sword Masters are still the Number 1 unit in the book IMO because of that
Correct
Felt really strange how that elite HE unit got decimated in one charge with no hit back lol.
Definitely didn’t felt right.
I've been saying this after watching my third battle report, this version of the game favors large infantry block formations. The chaff units are niche and supportive by nature. You use them to go behind lines and clean up vulnerable units like war machines and fleeing units. The infantry blocks control the engagement. Chaff isn't going to disrupt heavy infantry formations and they shouldn't. I think they nailed this!
I'm not a fan of chariots, I guess in 8th edition they were great to add combat res to overrun a unit with impact hits but in this addition its tough to punch through a line and keep the momentum. Holy cow though, are they ever good at cleaning up chaff and remnants of broken units. Which they should be. Also nailed it!
Chaff needs the right targets, otherwise you're just giving combat points to the enemy. Its a distraction, have enough that you need to divert attention to be dealt with. This was done well in the recent dwarfs vs Black Orcs game. A unit of savage orcs screened the black orcs and wasn't dealt with enough firepower, they got into the line and basically won the game taking out a whole bunch of points in squishy ranged units. There was just enough savage orcs there that if ignored were gonna cause problems and they did.
Savage orcs screening Blorc line; good chaff, dogo's into chariots; bad chaff. Probably better used to run after the bolt throwers and try to clean up those points. Its tough though the tables are so small and cramped with units how do you really manage to maneuver properly?
This Chaos list I feel was biased towards 8th edition, tailor made to alpha strike and overrun. Very unlikely to happen in this edition no matter how much punch you have. Infantry blocks are proving very resilient. Which they should be so I think they nailed that too! I'm really coming around to this edition I started painting up some of my old models I never got rid of.
You’re wrong about chaff. Their whole point is that they are anvils to bait out charges to allow flanking charges from heavy cavalry and elite units. Never has chaff been used for clearing back lines in competitive WHFB. Literally their whole point is to be cheap units to charge block and be sacrificed. The game is played by trading units.
Usually it’s stuff like eagles/a chariot/pegasus knights/etc, who can move quickly around the ranks to destroy war machines, lines of archers, etc.
@@Stonehornthat's how it was used in the past. The use has to change, which is what I'm talking about. They are certainly not an "anvil" and rightly so, they shouldn't be. It's a small, loose contingent of open order or skirmishers that should break apart when confronted by an orderly advance of tightly packed formation.
The charge bait is less effective because the alpha strike is less effective. The defender will likely just fall back, so stack up all the kills and bonuses and win the combat of ten if you like.
The chaff game is now a sideshow act to the main event, which is the way a battle game should be.
12k views in 14 hours online. For a Fantasy batrep, that is incredible.
30k in 3 days ain't to shabby
I agree with those that loved the handheld cam. Really enjoyed this report, great job.
1:01:40 This was a strange sequence that led to the Swordmasters being flank charged? The enemy should flee directly away from the Swordmasters as they had the highest unit strength. The swordmasters chasing straight forward 2" definitely shouldn't have lead to exposing their flanks. It seemed like the HE player just wheeled them the full 2" away from the Chosen Knights. Very generous!
Regardless, absolutely awesome game and I loved watching it.
Hey! A couple of things: as far as I understand, if the target of a charge flees and you don't redirect, you don't make a failed charge, you still move the full charge range. Page 129. Second, still as far as i understand, if you make accidental contact when an enemy breaks and you pursue, the enemy is not destroyed and flees unscathed (well, still badly wounded from the lost combat). Page 131. Let me know what do you think! (I don't want to be pedantic, I want to learn - or better, re-learn the game!
I just double checked. The pursuit in turn 2 where the HE chariot pursued the dogs. They should not have caught the dogs. You move all the fleeing units first. Then you move the pursuing units. The dogs would have ended up beyond the marauder horsemen. They would have also caused a panic check in the horsemen. After that check and any results, then you move the chariot. Given the low marauder horsemen leadership, the most likely result was the horsemen flee also, beyond the dogs. Then the chariot pursues the dogs and wipes them out. If the horsemen pass their panic check, the chariot hits them. The dogs are fleeing, but not caught. There is no “I rolled higher than your flee, I cut you down” rule in ToW that I could find.
These types of batreps are the best. Thanks for the great work
1:39 HE Spearman 4th row all the way to the right... has seen some sh*t 😂
Not sure if was mentioned. But Turn 1 you lost a Chosen Knight, they have Chaos Armour 6+ (6+ ward save) that was not used.
In the cursed combat between white lions, the chariot and Chosen Knights, the chosen knights could have counter-charged the chariot to gain charge bonus for spears. Also, the chariot should have +1 Close Order bonus. Anyway, nice batrep guys! Thanks for sharing the voice of The Old World!
The game seems pretty well balanced so far but that choas item that force wizards to roll 3 dice is definitely over powered this edition.
You're almost guaranteed to shut down your opponents magic phase
Which is this object?
damn that chariot heavy list is exactly what I want to build first, thanks for this
Gotta agree with others - the handheld format is much more appealing and engaging.
Yes more TOW! :D Looking forward to see some Lizardmen down the road!
Would love to see a bat rep with the empire and lots of core. I also would love to see a low point game, maybe 1K. It’s probably a lot of peoples first time playing fantasy and it would be cool to see how low point games play out as people build up their armies to 2K.
Warhammer doesn’t scale well that low. Below 1500 points, the game breaks down because of the price of characters and special units
@@Stonehorn it does scale well but certain armies do not. Elves and chaos get wrecked at 1000pts but others are alright.
@@whatfruit7965 that means it doesn’t scale well. And it’s not only elves. Goblins don’t work, Ogres are barely a handful of models and have no board presence at 1k. A lvl 4 wizard is way to powerful at that level. It presents tons of problems. You can teach someone the basics at 1k, but you can’t have a competitive game (I don’t mean tournament competition, just friendly competition) at those levels.
@@Stonehorn how are you squeezing a lv4 wizard in a 1k game?
So...if the chaos knights have a 3+, shouldn't the -3 White Lion great weapons killed like 3 more (or caused 3 more ward?) 3-3 is 6, not 5. Do they have a 2+?
That Chaos army looks a lot like I have planed for my Slaanesh warband.
Great report guys! Although I am certain that you did see three fully covered models when shooting your doombolt as the models are still on 20x20 bases but you can't actually get three fully covered models in one line on 25mm bases with a small 3" template. The template is missing 2,86 mm in diameter for that.
Great to see a handheld report!
It was nice to meet you guys at Warhammer World and I'm definitely going to watch all your videos 😁
Why did only 3 dogs fight in the combat on Steve's turn on the right flank? Doesn't the entire fighting rank attack regardless of connection, just max of 1 attack?
Yea i wonder if it’s just a mistake as this was an earlier recorded battle because as far as I can see everyone in the fighting rank fights but they are capped at 1 attack if not in b2b.
Great game. I would love to see Steve play where he just rolls average, those knights were unstoppable lol!
Haha I was thinking that.id not jump to the conclusion that hammer units aren't great after the armour rolls of that knight unit haha
This is great batrep work, but man I really dont like the 2d6 casting thing, even in the other gw game systems. The whole power dice system has its issues, but at least there was a choice, now it kinda feels like you just try to cast everything and it randomly does or doesnt happen, and you dont have to think about it
This is my and my best buddy’s armies so hype to see it.
Great game guys! Love both of these armies. Thank you for sharing it with us 🙂
That paint job on the chaos is bloody amazing
A unit of Lothern Sea Guard may use this special rule when it makes a Stand & Shoot
charge reaction. A unit that does so can make a Stand & Shoot charge reaction regardless
of how close the charging unit is. Once this shooting has been resolved, the charged unit
may make a free redress the ranks manoeuvre, after which it will Hold and await the
charging unit.
Also elves all get +1 initiative the first turn of combat
Consider replacing some of the impassible with woods. Block line of sight, but allow movement through creates a ton of really interesting dynamics.
Not every game needs woods, especially when playing on a desert board.
@@Stonehorn make something thematic with the same effect. Ultimately terrain with different effects, either LOS blocking, movement blocking, or some combination of both makes for better games.
@@Alfindeol again, tbis is one game. Want one with woods, go watch another, theres a bunch. The terrain matched the board.
@@Stonehorn they literally discuss terrain at the end. This is me responding to that.
@@Alfindeol there’s plenty of LoS blocking terrain on that table, and dangerous ground, and hills.
That's amazing! How beautiful old world is
If I'm not mistaken, the charge bonus for spears/lances only works if you travel at least 3 inches. And the initiative bonus on the charge is per inch traveled, up to 3 or 4, depending on the orientation. These 1 or 2 inch charges are getting the maximum initiative and strengh bonus.
You're incorrect about lances and spears, they always get their bonuses. You're correct about bonus Initiative being tied to the number of inches you travel. But thats how we played it.
love the clarifications at the beginning of the video
The white paint scheme on Chaos looks great and so many marauders, like the opening scene of Conan the barbarian, awesome
When the dogs fought the chariot at 21:20, you should get the full fighting rank regardless of base to base
what do you guys think about shooting with crossbows and handguns which cannot shoot from multiple ranks anymore?
Why do only three warhounds get to fight at 21:15? I've seen from other channels that in Old World the entire front row is the fighting rank right?
Yeah im struggling to remember the fighting rank all fights.
That ruby ring, must be second hand from one elderly goblin owner in like new condition. 🤣🤣
White lions charging into chaos knights at about 29min. It didn’t look like the initial wheel was included in the charge range - you can’t just do closest point to closest point for measuring.
I do know that they changed a lot of things about wheeling in general. Possibly that's one of the new rules.
Those archers were the MVPs, they took two banners and held the flank!
Why are you not doing heavy casualties panic test during shooting phase?
That High Elf reroll failed casting avoided three miscasts, pretty strong.
I run Beasts of Chaos and love the hounds but Vanguard doubles their cost; as said in the video better to take them in small 5-dog units.
What's the optimal unit size for infantry? 20, 25, 30 strong?
I am playing this exact matchup on thursday!
Chaos Knights just running through everything jeez
The dogs are on cavalry bases. Does that make them unit strength 2?
Where does one get the rules for the different factions? Are they in the core rulebook or something?
The infernal puppet seems way too good at 24”
A classic warriors of chaos army.... without any warriors
Hello, is there a link so we can buy the movement trays? cheers
“Blast this nerd.”😂😂😂😂
Why are you giving +1 combat res for close order?
Is there a minimum charge distance in the new rules?
Great game! Im curious to see how army lists change in this new format!
Don't all High Elf bows have AP1 and Armour Bane 1?
No
That's the "Arrows of Isha" rule and it's not an army-wide rule - only Handmaidens of the Everqueen and Sisters of Avelorn have it in their profile. It stacks with the Armour Bane (1) from their Bows of Avelorn for a total of "S3 (S4 for Handmaidens as it's "S as User") AP1 + Armour Bane (2) + Magical Attacks + Volley Fire + Ignores Cover" in terms of dmg output from shooting with BS5 for Sisters and BS7 for the HM. The "Ignores Cover" rule in particular is really nifty there and you can take 0-1 Sisters as a Core unit if your General is a Handmaiden.
I thought they did too. Damn it
Those Chaos Knights pretty OP oh wells
1. Chaos armour save on the chosen knights wasn't used.
2. The dogs on the right flank woudlnt have died, the marauder horse catch the overrun first.
3. Lion chariot is Close Order and you didnt include for combat res.
Are those dogs and marauders mostly just chaff, commonly used to control enemy movement and charges? In previous editions, were they hitting harder? Would we have ever expected them to beat elves in combat?
They are chaff. Used for move blocking and quick movement.
I can't find the values for the units online... do they only exist on paper atm?
Liking the idea of chrace shock units for flanking. Think they may not be as good as. A brick as they use to be. Also good if your going to break and they are still stubborn on first riund of combat so will likely hold units from pursuing.
I mean, they shouldn’t be as strong as they used to be. White Lions fighting in ranks of 3 ten wide was ridiculous. Horde was such a broken rule in 8th. As was magic.
Small units of 5-7 set up for counter flank charges seem super good, striking at ini 6 with that profile is pretty crazy
Not so great on the defensive any more but that’s perfectly fine imho
@@Stonehorn as someone who use to run a horde of White lions and a horde of spearmen in the same list i agree it was OP.
@@Stonehorn in retaliation there were lots of Hellpit Abominations in my meta that needed to be put down hard
I think that when you lost a fight with dogs (those that charged chariot) because the chariot struck marauders the dogs should survive. p. 157 of the rulebook ;)
If I'm remembering/readint eh rulebook correct, the fight between the dogs & the chariot around 23 minutes, every dog in the front row should have been able to fight, pg 145 'The Fighting Rank' & figure 145.1
HE player kept forgetting the +1 Ini on 1st round of combat.
I think the US5 requisite to cause panic will be faqed to ''US5 at start of combat'', otherwise i agree is quite wierd atm.
Why would the chariot die when moving trough an enemy unit? Shouldn’t it take a peril test and lose one wound on 1-3 instead of dying ?
Yeah i made a clip and explained this at the beginning of the video.
@@MountainMiniatures fck I just skipped that I think. Now I see it :)
Are dogs not still US2 like they always were before? They're on a cav base so they should be.
Question about those 3D printed bases from miniwargaming. Are they solid or are they open underneath like GW bases (making them perfect for adding magnets)?
They're likely to have a sculpted slot in the bottom that will fit a suitably sized magnet.
How many points in this battle?
That archers MVP!!! GG thanks!
Do you get +1 combat res from charging and/or outnumber? I don't think john got those during the first big combat with the white lions and lion chariot with prince, vs chaos chosen knights, so wanted to double check (haven't read the rulebook yet obv)
you don’t get either of them in ToW
Are Tiranoc Chariots not Quick Shot? It would have come up a couple of times
Don't chaos chosen knights have counter charge?
Shouldn't HE lord be equipped with chracian hunter honour if you take lion chariot and if you join white lion unit??
No, and no.
@@MountainMiniatures aa okey, now i see it, you can normally take the chariot as special choice, sorry, my bad, thanks for your response :)
Pretty sure Steve forgot every single armour save except one, on his marauder horsemen armed with shields and light armour against those archers towards the middle/end.
Nope, those ones had no armor I believe. Abnd the shooting was -1ap, so he had no save. Or maybe it had light armor but the shooting was AP2.
Now I see why you don't think much of the swordmasters but seriously nothing really should stand up to a flank charge from chosen chaos knights. The sword masters in the side should have gotten to strike at the same time as the knights but I doubt it would have made much of a difference.
Thats not why. It just the first example recorded and put out for others to see.
@@MountainMiniatures Cool. Looking forward to more great videos.
Why the high elf mage casts spells on 3D6 instead of 2D6?
Infernal puppet on the Chaos Mage makes him roll 3 dice and discard the highest
Drain Magic definitely seems much more useful against level 1-2 wizards as a level 4 wizard than against an equal level caster
It’s super punishing against low levels like you said but still useful even against level 4s
It makes them significantly less likely to get powerful spells off and then you don’t have to risk miscasting on the dispel
And if you’re a real madman running 2 wizards you can double drain and pretty much shut down casting entirely
Nicely done
The shrine doesn't exist anymore? That's kinda wild, I wonder why.
The winds of chaos ebb low
I wonder how long till he realizes Chaos steeds are S4
hmm looks a big weird to have swordmaster and lions with so many ranks. IMO its a waste of points, since they never can hit. Esp. the lions, since swordmaster at least can have drilled.
When the swordmaster attacked the chaos knights they should have to redress their ranks before the attack movement to get more units to attack, could have got at least two or three more attacking models.
Countercharge with chosen knights!!!
Are dogs not unit strength 2 each because of counting as cavalry?
They are Cavalry, but only US1
@@MountainMiniatures Fair.
is it nostalgia or why so much charriots in every game :D
any chance you could provide the warriors of chaos list? :)
Probably in the upcoming Arcane Journal.
What happened to the cool intro? I remember some vids having a 'time before sea elves, sigmarites, a time for the old world' or was that on miniwargamings channel? Otherwise lets goo, classic fantasy!
i wish they made it d10 - or even higher - so you can remove alot of those added special rules; like 6+ ward saves, reroll 1's, ect
FOR ALGORYTHMO! FOR THE STEVE! FOR LUGNUT MCGILLYGULLY JR THE BESTIGOR!
I think you guys forgot the elven reflexes a bunch of times which would have swung a bunch of combats differently.
3+ AS on that chariot? Don't the elves have armour reduction on their bows?
no, just the armour bane
@@MountainMiniaturesbut isn't every succesful roll to wound from them armor baned attack since they require 6 to wound?
@@cmxpiipl S3 bows wound t3 minis on 4's.
i dont know what your saying
@@MountainMiniatures I am referring to around 11.26 when the chaos chariot is being shot at. T5 wounds on 6's so those wounding shots are ab1 or not? Sry don't have the books yet cause I am travelling.
When is the goblin first look coming 😢
i LOVE this table!!
Chosen chaos knights not messing around
great report
Chaos chariots don’t have Swiftstride.
Super fun game.
the 2 big moutain scenary are way to big for aTow game, it turns a strategical games into a tunnel games
You beautiful people! Thanks for this!