BLM is acronym for block learn multiplier which is essentially long term fuel trim , this video brought back memories of apprenticing in the 90s on these now classics. seeing that IAC reading at zero at idle has me thinking that you have a vacuum/EGR issue going on, I'm interested in seeing the conclusion.
An old Snapper Red Brick would be a better tool, more data pids. You do have 2 clues. High idle, 0 IAC. The MAF unplugged does put the car into a default, limited spark advance, limited fuel control and pulse width. You shouldn't trust the data you're getting. You're on the right track IMO with the MAF, but I doubt that's the end of it ;) Neat old car, takes me way back. I've worked on many of them! Popcorn ready!
when a scan tool is plugged in, they change modes/data speed and they end up idling high/spark advanced and all sorts of odd things, especially once put into gear on the ODB 1 systems. none were meant to be driven while plugged into them. they'll go into advance timing and start to spark knock like mad, all the v8's did/do and best I can recall the v6 and 4cyl did the same thing. haven't touched a v6 or 4cyl OBD1 in many years, v8 obd1 I still own and had multiple of them.
That was the first year of the front-wheel drive "C" body. (GM continued to make the rear-wheel drive wagons of these models.) I had customers with these and they weren't the greatest. Leaks in rack-and-pinion units, torn CV joint boots, transmission issues, etc. I had a customer with one and it seemed like there was always something; keep in mind, we didn't have the warranties we have now. I would just remind him of all that traction he got in the snow and all that gas he saved. He traded that for a 1986 Mercury Grand Marquis and drove that car for the next 5 years. GREAT VIDEO!
I'm trying to see how much work it is to put my '82 grand marque engine in my F100 pickup. I joke with the wife it will twist the bed into a pretzel. But I have the code reader for the engine. (somewhere LOL) I remember the first time I put my hand over the throttle body. Thought it was going to suck my arm into the engine. A tree flattened the body out, but the engine is good. It gave it's life to save my RX7.
I remember when these were new. The transaxle was the first year that GM had a FWD transaxle with OD. If I recall correctly it had two different throttle cables, one to control line pressure and one to make things extra complicated. They didn't last very long before needing replaced. I think it was called the 440T4. Garbage
GM dealer told me failure rate was 110% on MAFs. They had a barrel for the ones replaced under warranty. GM says “tap test” on MAF is a valid test. Keep it up and you will learn to really dislike OBD1 cars.
My wife had an 86 1/2 Buick LeSabre FWD with the 3.8 V6. It was a rolling intermittent on 4 wheels. The engine itself was Great! The electronics....not so great. The transmission another big problem. In 1986, the Buick LeSabre started to as a rear wheel drive in late 85. Jan 1 1986 it was a Front Wheel Drive. My wife got one of the early ones complete with all the problems of a new design and released on the public! All I can say is Good Luck with this one Ivan! This car brings back some bad memories!
Very interesting car again, love 80's cars :) In 1985, most cars here in Europe still had carbs without catalytic converters, so interesting to see a car with fuel injection, cat and all that emissions stuff from 1985.
@@wesliebegay828 I'm 57 years old this year and I can still do brakes squatting in the floor and I can still get up off a creeper using one leg. ;) I ain't done for yet. Been at this since 1987, and I don't plan to retire for at least another 10 years. It's my drawers that sag. LMAO!! All that sweat down here in the south.
I want that stereo. I always loved those Delco front face cassette stereos. All of ours really pumped out the sound. And the Tilt Wheel 💖 brings back memories and those plush seats 🥰. Nice warm and comfortable, wish they still made this stuff.
I miss the Oldsmobile cars from this era. My dad had a 1984 or 1985 Delta 88 Royal Brougham, beautiful car and just floated over bumps. My grandparents had a 1988 Cutlass Ciera which was a great car as well. Beautiful interiors too.
Glad to watch a car with same/similar genre as my 90 Lesabre. 3.8L V6 I series. Mine has 380,000 miles (all mine) and it's showing its age... but still is a (SMOOTH, QUIET) runner.
If you can get your hands on an old snap on MT2500 scanner with the correct domestic cartridge and cable ends, you’ll be able to see more PID, even in the road test mode.
Those seats are good for short trips. Long trips and you sink and cause pressure points. Much prefer firm seats where your weight is equally dispersed. I always hated 70s/80s American car seats. No support at all.
I had an 88 Cadillac Sedan DeVille for a few years. It was a smooth riding car also with those comfortable seats that Ivan was bragging about. It looked a lot like that Olds. My Caddy had a 4.5 liter engine. It always ran really good.
I had one just like it. Best interior I have ever own. Great ride. Now for the bad, lost a fuel pump in the first 6 months. Then on a trip to Florida the Mass airflow sensor failed. It was bucking at highway speed with the money light on.
That takes me back to my 1986 Pontiac Grand Prix. I have a good one tomorrow Ivan. Volt's corvette High speed lan none of the modules are talking. Time for BOB and voltmeter to check for terminating resistors. Then the Oscilloscope to see what's killing the network.
What a beautiful car! I grew up in a GM dealership, and I'm super jealous! That thing is loaded! Right away I noticed the radio has equalizers, and the electronic climate control, well, 30 miles of vacuum hose, love it! Looking forward to a full sort out! You gotta get a Bear diagnosis machine. I remember in the service department there was a computer the size of a forklift that the technicians would hook up to the vehicles like it was a hospital, I was too young to understand it then, but thanks to you, I get it now.
I had the 1980 Olds 98, fine car. Then a new 1987 Cutlas with the itty bitty V8 another fine car. This is going to be a fun series of videos. Have to load up my pop corn supply.
Holy Cow Ivan!! I'm dead in the middle of restoring my 89 Oldsmobile Toronado Trofeo (which I ordered brand new in the fall of 88) right now !! (And documenting this adventure on my little youtube channel). OBD1,, early version, is a challenge. I get to do it Old School.
What a gem, Ivan! A true blast from the past! If you manage to get the parts, this is going to be a very rewarding project - the car does deserve it! Can't wait for Part 2!
This brings back some memories. I used to have Oldsmobile like that. But mine was an 87 Delta 88 Royal Brougham. Picked it up for $450 back in 2005. It barely ran or stop. But the rest of the car looked mint. I just needed a cheap car to kick around in for a little while and this just fit the bill. It made a terrible rattle noise at idle. I knew exactly what the problem was, but the guy I got it from honestly thought the engine was shot. I replaced the broken harmonic balancer. As well as the plugs, wires and coils, brake pads, rotors and tires. Oh, and a pair of front sway bar links. I drove that car for 5 trouble free years after that. Wound up selling it in 2010 for $2,000. I kind of wish I never sold it.
Those earliest FWD GMs were so problematic. I had an 87 LeSabre with a 3800 but it was always at the dealer. I wasn't into DIY then so I wasn't aware of all the details. Thanks Ivan!
Wow, what a small world... I grew up close enough to Lewistown, Pa to play them in baseball and football, and I now live in New Hampshire... Hey John, I hope you talked Ivan into making a road trip to New England.... LOL
I worked on drivability issues on these when they were new. any stalling or power issue the first thing you do is tap the airflow sensor with a screwdriver on the square part. if it caughs or dies you have exited diagnostic mode. the ones that werent the maf were almost always burnt plug wire ends. (remove from plug and look for charcoal in boot end).
Vacuum leak, you need to run the old fuel out. Oh, you got gas good! Fuel filter clogged. Check control module. It's going to be a simple fix. Replace Fuse for front cigarette lighter. Great video. Air and fuel filters change.
If there is a filter on the end of the pickup pipe in the tank, check it. Once had a brand new vehicle that would not run at more than 40 mph. Admittedly it was a little older than this one and with a carb. After a lot of things tried we emptied a full tank of fuel, removed the tank and found that the gauze filter on the end of the pickup pipe was rammed so far onto the pipe that it was trying to collect fuel through about 8 layers of folded over and sewn together gauze. All was good once we removed that. And the engine no longer ran hot due to a lean mix. That particular vehicle was a long and sorry story that sticks clearly in my mind decades later.
Nice video and looking forward to the next episode. That’s the problem with keeping an older car nobody has parts anymore. I used to have old Mercedes and kept one or two parts cars around to keep them going. I was just watching Lethal Weapon yesterday and Danny Glover was driving a wagon from that vintage. 😂😂
First series 3800 these were notorious for jumping time, hence the series 2 3800 the bulletproof non interference engine, haven't seen one like this in decades
I had a low milage "1985 Park Avenue Select 60" It developed an issue with the torque converter and would buck at highway speeds! This video also brought to mind many other issues I had with the same car including a clogged catalytic converter. It got red hot one night on the freeway. I had never been stranded until I bought this lemon of a car. The very next day I traded it in and drove Cadillacs worry free for the next 30+ years. I personally think that the 3800 engine was way overrated!
Interesting case. About 6 years ago I drove one from Cleveland Ohio area to Michigan. That car rode nice on the freeway, I was selling it for our brother-n-law.
Looks like the dealer has pulled a fast one on the old fella. That motor does not look as if it has done 5K, going by the shabby appearance. Normally low mile barn finds have a characteristic 'sheen' - so to speak. looking forward of you plugging away at it. maybe we can see 'wilburt's u pull it' in this episode
Just looking at the immaculate interior makes me think the mileage is genuine. Unless the car had been stored in an air conditioned environment I would expect to see aluminium surface corrosion after that amount of time.
It's 40 years old. It could have 5 miles on it and falling apart back into the earth. It was bought in Ohio, so possibly a midwest car its entire life. Midwest has moderate to high humidity that destroys everything over time.
Can not be much wrong with the engine the 3.8 Buick V6 is one of GM,s finest engines they are almost bullet proof.GM-H here in Australia started using them in '88/89 & there are a lot still on the roads here.Cheers see you in part 2.
not a head liner one survived here in Ohio, even when stored in garages, the temperature/humidity made them all fall, regardless of mileage. it may have been driven in winter a low number of times or just salt mist off the cleared roadways, or shortly after when still wet. could very well be original 5K miles, pretty sure they went to more digit odometers by then. unless someone tampered with it.
I used to do a lot of ECM mods; the 3.3L variant was used in the Grand Am and early Grnad Prix N/W platforms. Check also that the MAP hasn't been replaced, as it's a dual-fuel map system -- (has both MAF and MAP sensors) and can technically run off of either. The VE (enrichment table) however, is static on the MAP sensor; while it used the actual calculated airflow from the MAF to determine air velocity, and therefore adjust the MAP VE table (compensate) -- It's been years since I've been in the coding for these things, though! Good luck! Maybe you too can get a "Willbert's pick a part" shirt just like SMA! :P
I’ve got an 88 Firebird that also had similar issues. Went through multiple aftermarket maf sensors with various issues. Finally found a good used Delphi on eBay. Has been fine for the previous 3 years.
A couple of years ago, I had a Buick LaCrosse with the 3800 that would surge and buck. One shop replaced the MAF and it drove marginally better. I got a second opinion from another shop and said the replacement MAF was aftermarket and suggested an OEM AC Delco unit...which fixed the issue. When I was a freshman at a Junior College, fall 1984...a new 1985 Olds 98 was delivered to the college's auto tech program. From what I remembered, the car was donated to the school so the students could learn diagnostic testing on the then new computer systems. Almost 40 years later, I'm surprised how much data you could extract from that car using a modern diagnostic reader.
Your fuel injectors are old and the internal resistance could be wonkers. Should be around 12.3 ohms each. If even only one is bad, it will drive the computer nuts. They are easy to get to. only takes a few minutes to do this. I hope this helps. Always watch your videos and love them.
Spot on with the mas air flow sensor. Had a 94 ford would miss and die with hard throttle but you could nurse it home with light throttle. Unplug mas sir flow sensor it would ron good. Replaced sensor and it was good again. That low mileage sure does seem suspicious. Wonder if its rolled over and is really 105,000?
I sense a couple of Russian fixes coming up.😂 Mum and Dad bought one of these in the mid 80's. Looked beautiful in it's shiny black paint, but I recall it felt relatively slow despite having a 6 cylinder engine, but like you said, Ivan, it was like sitting in your favorite armchair, it was a very comfortable ride.
These were pretty good cars Alot of people fiddling with stuff caused alot of problems, throttle angle, min idle etc.. Did alot of tcc sols., tps, Solid chassis for sure
One other important thing. On old cars like this , I see problems like this in my FB Corvette C4 group as being from the wiring and pin connections , not from the aftermarket MAF sensors. Many people have replaced ECM's and MAF's only to eventually find the root cause was stretched open female connectors. A 2 second fix ! ALSO, a code 34 is typically a short to ground on the signal wire...also means LOW air flow... No wonder it won't revout !
There's an old quick check on the ecm. Take it out and leave it plugged in and smack it a little bit, but I doubt if that's the problem. Lots of inferior electrical connections and wiring back then. Not to mention the design and distributor/coil. Don't forget GM grounds lol. Worst case he doesn't need an echeck anymore. I would guess fuel /air, but I will be looking forward to part 2 and possibly 3 and 4 and lol. Lots of shenanigans with odometers also. The 4 bangers from GM were famous for head gaskets. Those had metal gas tanks? Lots of junk from the factory in the late 70s and well into the 80s. Air pump and egr valve's were also common problems. Let us know how much time it took and i mean all of the time! Not just actually diagnosis and fix time
The vehicle probably needs new gaskets and also look at the coolant temperature sensor triggering could be causing some fuel-related issues GM heavily reliable net for balancing fuel trims. A beautiful 80s car still kicking.
Those with HEI distributor were common short to ground of ROTOR BUTTON BURN THRU. Saw a NO RUN engine and installed rotor button...fired right up like new. CHECK TPS to confirm BASE VOLTAGE adjustment .5v KOEO
I had a Caddy with one of those distributors. Same intermittent power. Turned out to be the braided wires from the distributor reluctor pickup coil. It moves under different vacuum conditions and opened up under certain conditions. That fixed it. Thanks.
How late were they using a vacuum diaphragm to modualte the ignition timing? I would have thought that they would use the crank position sensor and MAP sensor to derive all of the speed-load data to derive proper spark timing, even with a distributor.
At 11:57, Stopped the video and here, what I used to do in these cases, ( I am twice your age Ivan LOL) hystograph the MAF and TPS, yes back than I had a snap-on graphic multimeter that would do that.
There is an OE mass airflow sensor on ebay. Pretty much all cars in that era had issues, thanks to the EPA and the fuel crisis. Every manufacturer was trying to rush tiny engines and air pollution control systems to market too quickly, and they were all gutless and broke down constantly. I got hit by one of those back in the day. It did some pretty good damage to my '82 Escort. The guy hit and ran.
hey ivan ,love the videos . and believe it or not ebay mikes obsolete auto parts has got 3 nos factory delco mass airflow sensors brandy new ,who would have thought .lol im sure by now you may have found it all ready ,
I lost my taste for shoe leather so I will refrain from armchair diagnostics on this one. I hope the old boy got a really super great deal on it. Should be a great history lesson none the less. 👍👍🇺🇸
My grandparents had this same car, tan over tan. My sister was given it as her first car to drive to college. It met its demise when a fuel line rotted through. Other than that I don't remember the car being in terrible shape. I definitely would've saved it if I was older and more knowledgeable
@@gorak9000 Yah I was young and dumb, didn't have access to tools or knowledge and it wasn't even technically my car. My mom just wanted to out of the driveway after it sat for 6 months.
Might want to try RearCounter for OEM parts that are no longer in stock or made. I recently had to find OEM parts for a 1970 f250 where there was no aftermarket replacement. That led me to RearCounter which is a database of dealers with New Old Stock parts. These are new parts made back in the day that were never sold.
That is the first car I have seen on Ivan's channel with a full tank of gas. What was that at 15:23? Rodents? No way! I am wanting to say that the radiator core on that car was copper. I would be willing to bet as long as that car has set up that the core is plugged or the coolant level is low. I noticed you having to correct for torque-steer.
The parts are out there! I still will just put my 2 cents in that there was a massive warranty campaign on the catalytic converters in the 80s by GM- drove many a shade tree guy nuts because you could seem to “ improve” it slightly by pulling sensor plugs etc but was a red herring. This will be interesting I am surprised more old GM techs arn’t chiming in. I’mm 64 and11/12 the 🤓
Ivan, great video! I wish i could have loaned you my 1990ish otc scan tool with the gm carts and little lcd screen for this diag. It shows quite a few data pids your verus is not showing on these 3.8s. These early cars usually had a switch for the fan, the ecm sensor, and a switch for the light or 1 sensor and everything including the lamp was driven by the ecm. I forget what year gm did what in. In any case, I cant wait to see where this goes. My 88 lesabre with the 3800 had a similar issue. For it, it was the coolant temp sensor, MAF, coilpack, and finally a major cooling system flush to get even flow back into the heads. Ran mint!
Started in 1972. I don’t think he has the Legacy software on his scanner. I started with MT2500 and it had tps, cts and plenty of other helpful pids. Lots of experience in my 70 yr old mind. Getting it out might be tough though.
My in-laws had an '85 Cutlass V8 that ran rough and wouldn't idle. They had it put on a diagnostic machine at the dealer. They told them it needed a valve job. I found out the EGR valve was plugged up. I cleaned it out and the car ran perfectly even years later. So sad when even the dealer tries to rip you off.
I had a new 1989 LeSabre. It also stumbles as you accelerate from 25 mph. It was the EGR that was bad. I counted the number of flashes of the check engine light.
Sure looks like that engine bay has 105k, or 205k on it. But the interior looks so good. Although I had a 1991 olds that had 274k on it, ran perfect and had a basically flawless interior.
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BLM is acronym for block learn multiplier which is essentially long term fuel trim , this video brought back memories of apprenticing in the 90s on these now classics. seeing that IAC reading at zero at idle has me thinking that you have a vacuum/EGR issue going on, I'm interested in seeing the conclusion.
I loved the old GM’s from the 1980’s. Ice cold air conditioning with the R-12 Freon. Fogged up my glasses as I exited the car. Good old days!
An old Snapper Red Brick would be a better tool, more data pids. You do have 2 clues. High idle, 0 IAC. The MAF unplugged does put the car into a default, limited spark advance, limited fuel control and pulse width. You shouldn't trust the data you're getting. You're on the right track IMO with the MAF, but I doubt that's the end of it ;) Neat old car, takes me way back. I've worked on many of them! Popcorn ready!
when a scan tool is plugged in, they change modes/data speed and they end up idling high/spark advanced and all sorts of odd things, especially once put into gear on the ODB 1 systems. none were meant to be driven while plugged into them. they'll go into advance timing and start to spark knock like mad, all the v8's did/do and best I can recall the v6 and 4cyl did the same thing. haven't touched a v6 or 4cyl OBD1 in many years, v8 obd1 I still own and had multiple of them.
I can predict part 2: Unable to find a 40-year-old OEM MAF, Ivan builds one on his workbench. Car runs flawlessly!😊
I beat you to it in MAF by an hour
...in a cave from a box of scraps!
LOL, but possibly true!
My take would be MAP, but air leaks are always a factor on old cars.
he defiantly wont find one. the early 3.8s had lots of MAF problems. most of them were replaced with later style MAFs to cure drivability problems.
That was the first year of the front-wheel drive "C" body. (GM continued to make the rear-wheel drive wagons of these models.) I had customers with these and they weren't the greatest. Leaks in rack-and-pinion units, torn CV joint boots, transmission issues, etc. I had a customer with one and it seemed like there was always something; keep in mind, we didn't have the warranties we have now. I would just remind him of all that traction he got in the snow and all that gas he saved. He traded that for a 1986 Mercury Grand Marquis and drove that car for the next 5 years. GREAT VIDEO!
I'm trying to see how much work it is to put my '82 grand marque engine in my F100 pickup. I joke with the wife it will twist the bed into a pretzel. But I have the code reader for the engine. (somewhere LOL) I remember the first time I put my hand over the throttle body. Thought it was going to suck my arm into the engine. A tree flattened the body out, but the engine is good. It gave it's life to save my RX7.
Agreed, these were much better by 88 or 89. Beautiful cars, though.
I remember when these were new. The transaxle was the first year that GM had a FWD transaxle with OD. If I recall correctly it had two different throttle cables, one to control line pressure and one to make things extra complicated. They didn't last very long before needing replaced. I think it was called the 440T4. Garbage
Oh the memories..... a red brick mt2500, a sun scope the size of a refrigerator, and a parking lot full of OBD1 drivability jobs. Good times!
Kudos to the owner for buying a great car vs new garbage.
Keep it as long as you can!
GM dealer told me failure rate was 110% on MAFs.
They had a barrel for the ones replaced under warranty.
GM says “tap test” on MAF is a valid test.
Keep it up and you will learn to really dislike OBD1 cars.
My wife had an 86 1/2 Buick LeSabre FWD with the 3.8 V6. It was a rolling intermittent on 4 wheels.
The engine itself was Great! The electronics....not so great.
The transmission another big problem.
In 1986, the Buick LeSabre started to as a rear wheel drive in late 85. Jan 1 1986 it was a Front Wheel Drive. My wife got one of the early ones complete with all the problems of a new design and released on the public!
All I can say is Good Luck with this one Ivan! This car brings back some bad memories!
Very interesting car again, love 80's cars :) In 1985, most cars here in Europe still had carbs without catalytic converters, so interesting to see a car with fuel injection, cat and all that emissions stuff from 1985.
Damn I feel old. Ivan comments that this car is a year older than he is. This is stuff I cut my teeth on. Maybe I don't just feel old. XD
@@wesliebegay828 I'm 57 years old this year and I can still do brakes squatting in the floor and I can still get up off a creeper using one leg. ;) I ain't done for yet. Been at this since 1987, and I don't plan to retire for at least another 10 years. It's my drawers that sag. LMAO!! All that sweat down here in the south.
yea i rember thease new..
Omg blast from the past. I had a 86 cutlass really similar. Last car I owned before going off to boot camp.
I like John. He's probably got a great shorts and cap combo for golf tournaments too.
I want that stereo. I always loved those Delco front face cassette stereos. All of ours really pumped out the sound. And the Tilt Wheel 💖 brings back memories and those plush seats 🥰. Nice warm and comfortable, wish they still made this stuff.
I miss the Oldsmobile cars from this era. My dad had a 1984 or 1985 Delta 88 Royal Brougham, beautiful car and just floated over bumps. My grandparents had a 1988 Cutlass Ciera which was a great car as well. Beautiful interiors too.
Glad to watch a car with same/similar genre as my 90 Lesabre. 3.8L V6 I series. Mine has 380,000 miles (all mine) and it's showing its age... but still is a (SMOOTH, QUIET) runner.
TPS is adjustable. Set minimum idle then adjust TPS to .58 volt. need to pierce wires to do this. See procedure for this.
I agree, check the TPS
@@guy-zx4ggI agree, just run down to Thul's auto parts and pick up a new TPS. Oops they're gone, it's now a CVS.
If you can get your hands on an old snap on MT2500 scanner with the correct domestic cartridge and cable ends, you’ll be able to see more PID, even in the road test mode.
I miss comfortable seats like this in these old cars... The new cars today have seats that SUCK!
Those seats are good for short trips. Long trips and you sink and cause pressure points. Much prefer firm seats where your weight is equally dispersed.
I always hated 70s/80s American car seats. No support at all.
You are so right @@billmalec
Read my comment...
I have the absolute opposite. Couch seating is great compared to a racing seat with all that *support*
@@Turbo_Q Who said anything about a race seat?
I had an 88 Cadillac Sedan DeVille for a few years. It was a smooth riding car also with those comfortable seats that Ivan was bragging about. It looked a lot like that Olds. My Caddy had a 4.5 liter engine. It always ran really good.
I had one just like it. Best interior I have ever own. Great ride. Now for the bad, lost a fuel pump in the first 6 months. Then on a trip to Florida the Mass airflow sensor failed. It was bucking at highway speed with the money light on.
That takes me back to my 1986 Pontiac Grand Prix. I have a good one tomorrow Ivan. Volt's corvette High speed lan none of the modules are talking. Time for BOB and voltmeter to check for terminating resistors. Then the Oscilloscope to see what's killing the network.
I really enjoy listening to Ivan doing these shows.
What a beautiful car! I grew up in a GM dealership, and I'm super jealous! That thing is loaded! Right away I noticed the radio has equalizers, and the electronic climate control, well, 30 miles of vacuum hose, love it! Looking forward to a full sort out! You gotta get a Bear diagnosis machine. I remember in the service department there was a computer the size of a forklift that the technicians would hook up to the vehicles like it was a hospital, I was too young to understand it then, but thanks to you, I get it now.
I had an 85 Ford LTD Station Wagon. My son called it a rolling couch. The 3rd row faced the rear.
They were a great car ,I had a 1986 loaded 98 , miss those days of simplicity .
Simplicity? This baby is fully loaded for 1985. Full EFI, AC, cruise, power everything, shoot even has 12v sockets in the doors
They are the best one to keep along time, way better then new ones they make now ,and worse.
1985 and bucking.... all plastic vacuum lines are snapped LOL... now i will watch video...
I had the 1980 Olds 98, fine car. Then a new 1987 Cutlas with the itty bitty V8 another fine car. This is going to be a fun series of videos. Have to load up my pop corn supply.
My aunt had an Olds Cutlass from that era. I called it Old Gutless.
Holy Cow Ivan!! I'm dead in the middle of restoring my 89 Oldsmobile Toronado Trofeo (which I ordered brand new in the fall of 88) right now !! (And documenting this adventure on my little youtube channel). OBD1,, early version, is a challenge. I get to do it Old School.
You spent some big bucks back then. The Trofeo was rare because it was relly pricey.
What a gem, Ivan! A true blast from the past! If you manage to get the parts, this is going to be a very rewarding project - the car does deserve it! Can't wait for Part 2!
We used to thump the maf with your fist to see if it would stumble,great diag tool back in the day!😂
This brings back some memories. I used to have Oldsmobile like that. But mine was an 87 Delta 88 Royal Brougham. Picked it up for $450 back in 2005. It barely ran or stop. But the rest of the car looked mint. I just needed a cheap car to kick around in for a little while and this just fit the bill. It made a terrible rattle noise at idle. I knew exactly what the problem was, but the guy I got it from honestly thought the engine was shot. I replaced the broken harmonic balancer. As well as the plugs, wires and coils, brake pads, rotors and tires. Oh, and a pair of front sway bar links. I drove that car for 5 trouble free years after that. Wound up selling it in 2010 for $2,000. I kind of wish I never sold it.
Amazing!
YAY.....something I can relate to.....old and not so bad compared to the new salvage out there
Those earliest FWD GMs were so problematic. I had an 87 LeSabre with a 3800 but it was always at the dealer. I wasn't into DIY then so I wasn't aware of all the details. Thanks Ivan!
Wow, what a small world... I grew up close enough to Lewistown, Pa to play them in baseball and football, and I now live in New Hampshire... Hey John, I hope you talked Ivan into making a road trip to New England.... LOL
Yours and my favorite place....ROCKAUTO..seems to have. Everything. This old car has a knock senor this car runs on vacuum...part 2 ...😊
On my mom's 1970 Olds 98 convertible the temp light was dual duty for both cold and warm temp. You definitely get the good ones Ivan. Good luck!!!
I worked on drivability issues on these when they were new. any stalling or power issue the first thing you do is tap the airflow sensor with a screwdriver on the square part. if it caughs or dies you have exited diagnostic mode. the ones that werent the maf were almost always burnt plug wire ends. (remove from plug and look for charcoal in boot end).
Vacuum leak, you need to run the old fuel out. Oh, you got gas good! Fuel filter clogged. Check control module. It's going to be a simple fix. Replace Fuse for front cigarette lighter. Great video. Air and fuel filters change.
If there is a filter on the end of the pickup pipe in the tank, check it. Once had a brand new vehicle that would not run at more than 40 mph. Admittedly it was a little older than this one and with a carb.
After a lot of things tried we emptied a full tank of fuel, removed the tank and found that the gauze filter on the end of the pickup pipe was rammed so far onto the pipe that it was trying to collect fuel through about 8 layers of folded over and sewn together gauze. All was good once we removed that. And the engine no longer ran hot due to a lean mix.
That particular vehicle was a long and sorry story that sticks clearly in my mind decades later.
Nice video and looking forward to the next episode. That’s the problem with keeping an older car nobody has parts anymore. I used to have old Mercedes and kept one or two parts cars around to keep them going. I was just watching Lethal Weapon yesterday and Danny Glover was driving a wagon from that vintage. 😂😂
First series 3800 these were notorious for jumping time, hence the series 2 3800 the bulletproof non interference engine, haven't seen one like this in decades
I had a low milage "1985 Park Avenue Select 60" It developed an issue with the torque converter and would buck at highway speeds! This video also brought to mind many other issues I had with the same car including a clogged catalytic converter. It got red hot one night on the freeway. I had never been stranded until I bought this lemon of a car. The very next day I traded it in and drove Cadillacs worry free for the next 30+ years. I personally think that the 3800 engine was way overrated!
Interesting case. About 6 years ago I drove one from Cleveland Ohio area to Michigan. That car rode nice on the freeway, I was selling it for our brother-n-law.
Looks like the dealer has pulled a fast one on the old fella. That motor does not look as if it has done 5K, going by the shabby appearance. Normally low mile barn finds have a characteristic 'sheen' - so to speak.
looking forward of you plugging away at it. maybe we can see 'wilburt's u pull it' in this episode
No, that looks like aluminum rust. I had an engine with 250 miles look like that after 15 years.
I hope Ivan pulls a spark plug that will tell him if it only has 5 k on it .
Just looking at the immaculate interior makes me think the mileage is genuine. Unless the car had been stored in an air conditioned environment I would expect to see aluminium surface corrosion after that amount of time.
@@100SteveB yeah the interior looks great. I think it's legit.
It's 40 years old. It could have 5 miles on it and falling apart back into the earth. It was bought in Ohio, so possibly a midwest car its entire life. Midwest has moderate to high humidity that destroys everything over time.
Love the old sweep style speedo, we got to get this one sorted.
Andy from Karratha Australia..your a master tech
That speedometer is dope!!
Yes a very smooth luxury car to drive, worked on so many of them back in Toronto, there is Olds 98 and Olds 88 too, BLM stands for Block Learn Memory
Carburetor, injectors, bad fuel, intake manifold? Throttle body? I’m on the pins and the needles. Great episode!
I love that car, spent many a day working on cars of that vintage
Cool, this ought to be a good video series. Had an 82 Cutlass Supreme, and I loved that car. Wish I still had it.
Can not be much wrong with the engine the 3.8 Buick V6 is one of GM,s finest engines they are almost bullet proof.GM-H here in Australia started using them in '88/89 & there are a lot still on the roads here.Cheers see you in part 2.
I would like to import a Holden Commodore
@@aberobinson1 There is a Commodore in the US it is a Pontiac GTO can not remember the year/s they were made,
Looking at the engine bay my guess is that car could have 105K miles on the odometer not 5,000 because the interior looks fairly good
My thoughts exactly. That along with the headliner droop.
@@mikeafa1 Yes that's what I thought aswell
Yep there is a lot of grime under that hood.
not a head liner one survived here in Ohio, even when stored in garages, the temperature/humidity made them all fall, regardless of mileage.
it may have been driven in winter a low number of times or just salt mist off the cleared roadways, or shortly after when still wet. could very well be original 5K miles, pretty sure they went to more digit odometers by then. unless someone tampered with it.
@@throttlebottle5906 Not 5,000 105,000 no doubt.
Who else had a sagging headliner from the 80s? I had several 😊 Now I’m sagging…..
My 1994 Grand Am V6 (3100) has a sagging headliner. Used some 3M spray glue 4 years ago. Still holding.
I replaced my headliner on my 2007 Accord last year because it was sagging.
80s?! How about the headliners in the 2007 duramax…?
All of my dad's Buicks and Oldsmobiles. Only my mom's Buick has a nice headliner because she makes my dad take it to the upholstery guy
My GF went from firm to sagging
I used to do a lot of ECM mods; the 3.3L variant was used in the Grand Am and early Grnad Prix N/W platforms. Check also that the MAP hasn't been replaced, as it's a dual-fuel map system -- (has both MAF and MAP sensors) and can technically run off of either. The VE (enrichment table) however, is static on the MAP sensor; while it used the actual calculated airflow from the MAF to determine air velocity, and therefore adjust the MAP VE table (compensate) -- It's been years since I've been in the coding for these things, though!
Good luck! Maybe you too can get a "Willbert's pick a part" shirt just like SMA! :P
Great car and video Ivan! Looking forward to part 2!
You’re famous! I agree.
I’ve got an 88 Firebird that also had similar issues. Went through multiple aftermarket maf sensors with various issues. Finally found a good used Delphi on eBay. Has been fine for the previous 3 years.
A couple of years ago, I had a Buick LaCrosse with the 3800 that would surge and buck. One shop replaced the MAF and it drove marginally better. I got a second opinion from another shop and said the replacement MAF was aftermarket and suggested an OEM AC Delco unit...which fixed the issue.
When I was a freshman at a Junior College, fall 1984...a new 1985 Olds 98 was delivered to the college's auto tech program. From what I remembered, the car was donated to the school so the students could learn diagnostic testing on the then new computer systems. Almost 40 years later, I'm surprised how much data you could extract from that car using a modern diagnostic reader.
Your fuel injectors are old and the internal resistance could be wonkers. Should be around 12.3 ohms each. If even only one is bad, it will drive the computer nuts. They are easy to get to. only takes a few minutes to do this. I hope this helps. Always watch your videos and love them.
Spot on with the mas air flow sensor. Had a 94 ford would miss and die with hard throttle but you could nurse it home with light throttle. Unplug mas sir flow sensor it would ron good. Replaced sensor and it was good again. That low mileage sure does seem suspicious. Wonder if its rolled over and is really 105,000?
Nice job 👍
Don't forget to get Ivan's autograph on the car 😄😄
I sense a couple of Russian fixes coming up.😂 Mum and Dad bought one of these in the mid 80's. Looked beautiful in it's shiny black paint, but I recall it felt relatively slow despite having a 6 cylinder engine, but like you said, Ivan, it was like sitting in your favorite armchair, it was a very comfortable ride.
These were pretty good cars
Alot of people fiddling with stuff caused alot of problems, throttle angle, min idle etc..
Did alot of tcc sols., tps,
Solid chassis for sure
I once had a 1986 Chevy Citation and it had a bue interior like this Oldsmobile.
This would have made a great Vice-Grip Garage Tie-in episode
Very cool project. Thanks Ivan!
One other important thing. On old cars like this , I see problems like this in my FB Corvette C4 group as being from the wiring and pin connections , not from the aftermarket MAF sensors. Many people have replaced ECM's and MAF's only to eventually find the root cause was stretched open female connectors. A 2 second fix !
ALSO, a code 34 is typically a short to ground on the signal wire...also means LOW air flow... No wonder it won't revout !
There's an old quick check on the ecm. Take it out and leave it plugged in and smack it a little bit, but I doubt if that's the problem. Lots of inferior electrical connections and wiring back then. Not to mention the design and distributor/coil. Don't forget GM grounds lol. Worst case he doesn't need an echeck anymore. I would guess fuel /air, but I will be looking forward to part 2 and possibly 3 and 4 and lol. Lots of shenanigans with odometers also. The 4 bangers from GM were famous for head gaskets. Those had metal gas tanks? Lots of junk from the factory in the late 70s and well into the 80s. Air pump and egr valve's were also common problems. Let us know how much time it took and i mean all of the time! Not just actually diagnosis and fix time
Just started watching...my initial guess is EGR / vacuum issues.
The vehicle probably needs new gaskets and also look at the coolant temperature sensor triggering could be causing some fuel-related issues GM heavily reliable net for balancing fuel trims. A beautiful 80s car still kicking.
We drove an ‘80 Cutlass until ~’91. It was the last of the old-school, RWD, carbureted cars we had. This ‘85 seems pretty modern in comparison.
I agree a diagnostic tool from the same era would be helpful. Call Eric from SMA, he might have one. 😉
Those with HEI distributor were common short to ground of ROTOR BUTTON BURN THRU. Saw a NO RUN engine and installed rotor button...fired right up like new. CHECK TPS to confirm BASE VOLTAGE adjustment .5v KOEO
I had a Caddy with one of those distributors. Same intermittent power. Turned out to be the braided wires from the distributor reluctor pickup coil. It moves under different vacuum conditions and opened up under certain conditions. That fixed it.
Thanks.
How late were they using a vacuum diaphragm to modualte the ignition timing? I would have thought that they would use the crank position sensor and MAP sensor to derive all of the speed-load data to derive proper spark timing, even with a distributor.
It was a 79, so it was vacuum operated. I don't know if it changed by 85.😊@@gregorymalchuk272
Is the throttle body (valve) responding to more then half pedal? Seems like there isn’t enough air to handle the trimmers up fuel.
Love that steering wheel!
It’s not called work when you love what you’re doing.
I have those very same bucket seats from an '84 grafted into my '71 F250 highboy. Mine are the copper colored
Awesome!! Love the holiday video series!! Vaccuum leak? Why is the idle so high? Something with the advance? Very cool!
At 11:57, Stopped the video and here, what I used to do in these cases, ( I am twice your age Ivan LOL) hystograph the MAF and TPS, yes back than I had a snap-on graphic multimeter that would do that.
This is gonna be a GREAT series. Take ya time and make me happy. 😂
There is an OE mass airflow sensor on ebay. Pretty much all cars in that era had issues, thanks to the EPA and the fuel crisis. Every manufacturer was trying to rush tiny engines and air pollution control systems to market too quickly, and they were all gutless and broke down constantly. I got hit by one of those back in the day. It did some pretty good damage to my '82 Escort. The guy hit and ran.
hey ivan ,love the videos . and believe it or not ebay mikes obsolete auto parts has got 3 nos factory delco mass airflow sensors brandy new ,who would have thought .lol im sure by now you may have found it all ready ,
I lost my taste for shoe leather so I will refrain from armchair diagnostics on this one. I hope the old boy got a really super great deal on it. Should be a great history lesson none the less. 👍👍🇺🇸
A lot of people are waiting for this it seems
My grandparents had this same car, tan over tan. My sister was given it as her first car to drive to college. It met its demise when a fuel line rotted through. Other than that I don't remember the car being in terrible shape. I definitely would've saved it if I was older and more knowledgeable
Rotten fuel line sounds like such a simple fix to trash a whole car over!
@@gorak9000 Yeah I'm thinking maybe it went up in flames?
@@subzeromjc from what he said, I doubt it - probably just wouldn't run anymore because it had no fuel pressure
@@gorak9000 Yah I was young and dumb, didn't have access to tools or knowledge and it wasn't even technically my car. My mom just wanted to out of the driveway after it sat for 6 months.
@@lugnutgmc It’s all good man, have a nice Memorial Day weekend! 👍
Might want to try RearCounter for OEM parts that are no longer in stock or made.
I recently had to find OEM parts for a 1970 f250 where there was no aftermarket replacement. That led me to RearCounter which is a database of dealers with New Old Stock parts. These are new parts made back in the day that were never sold.
That is the first car I have seen on Ivan's channel with a full tank of gas. What was that at 15:23? Rodents? No way! I am wanting to say that the radiator core on that car was copper. I would be willing to bet as long as that car has set up that the core is plugged or the coolant level is low. I noticed you having to correct for torque-steer.
The parts are out there! I still will just put my 2 cents in that there was a massive warranty campaign on the catalytic converters in the 80s by GM- drove many a shade tree guy nuts because you could seem to “ improve” it slightly by pulling sensor plugs etc but was a red herring. This will be interesting I am surprised more old GM techs arn’t chiming in. I’mm 64 and11/12 the 🤓
Ivan, great video! I wish i could have loaned you my 1990ish otc scan tool with the gm carts and little lcd screen for this diag. It shows quite a few data pids your verus is not showing on these 3.8s. These early cars usually had a switch for the fan, the ecm sensor, and a switch for the light or 1 sensor and everything including the lamp was driven by the ecm. I forget what year gm did what in. In any case, I cant wait to see where this goes.
My 88 lesabre with the 3800 had a similar issue. For it, it was the coolant temp sensor, MAF, coilpack, and finally a major cooling system flush to get even flow back into the heads. Ran mint!
Had this issue on my 91 lesabre and I tracked it down to a vacuum leak on the cruise control. Another place to look is the throttle position sensor.
I don’t know why your scanner isn’t showing some of the PIDs. Scanners I used in the late 80’s were showing more.
Started in 1972. I don’t think he has the Legacy software on his scanner.
I started with MT2500 and it had tps, cts and plenty of other helpful pids.
Lots of experience in my 70 yr old mind. Getting it out might be tough though.
My in-laws had an '85 Cutlass V8 that ran rough and wouldn't idle. They had it put on a diagnostic machine at the dealer. They told them it needed a valve job. I found out the EGR valve was plugged up. I cleaned it out and the car ran perfectly even years later. So sad when even the dealer tries to rip you off.
I had a new 1989 LeSabre. It also stumbles as you accelerate from 25 mph. It was the EGR that was bad. I counted the number of flashes of the check engine light.
The car is older than my son. I rode in those cars and they were very comfy.
I miss those velour sofa like GM seats. That was a road trip car. Soft suspension, tires with some sidewall to soak up road imperfections.
Buick V6 3.8 bloody good engines. How is the check engine light on, when it has no codes?
Sure looks like that engine bay has 105k, or 205k on it. But the interior looks so good. Although I had a 1991 olds that had 274k on it, ran perfect and had a basically flawless interior.