Chinese Mini Lathe 3 Phase Motor & XSY-AT1 VFD Upgrade Set-up
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 พ.ค. 2018
- See my new dual voltage 3 phase 1HP motor and VFD set-up on the Chinese Mini Lathe. Also See my new AR925 Smartsensor digital handheld contact tachometer.. SEE BUYING LINKS BELOW:-
2.2KW 220V AC 12A Single Phase Variable Frequency Inverter General -- goo.gl/sbQccx
US Warehouse -- goo.gl/6gKvN9
SMARTSENSOR AR925 Digital Tachometer Contact Motor Tachometer -- goo.gl/9i18xR
Banggood App Promotion -- goo.gl/AuyhkV
Digital machine display tachometer
goo.gl/6yGjCv
![[UNCUT] ฝันรักห้วงนิทรา | EP.8 (4/4)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/RDYJYiDwsj0/mqdefault.jpg)
Got my lathe up and running, couldn't have done it without this video, thanks a bunch Steve!
Well not this one but the other. lol
Hello Steve all i can say is thank you for all your input in regards to your new setup,i did this a while back about a year ago .and it works flawlessly good luck with yours....you did a great job showing all the positive things about it .....thanks for sharing.
A great conversion. I also like the contact tachometer. The lathe now handles larger turning jobs with ease.
Wow , a mini with the power of a large lathe , Nice work Steve !
Thanks Mr Steve. I have the same lathe and it was under water for 4 days when everything I owned was flooded in hurricane Harvey. I pressured washed and oiled everything I could trying to save as many of my tools and machines as possible. The mini lathe will not run with the controller but I think the motor is still good. I have been in the process of getting a new control panel, but after watching this video, I see a better way to get it back in service. Thanks for the explanation and the information!!!
Hi Danny. Thanks. I would have saved a lot of money if I had thought of this earlier. Hope you can get the lathe up and running soon. I live on a flood plain as well so we have to keep an eye on things in bad storms. Regards Steve
Pretty ambitious project Steve -- as the saying goes - very cool! Certainly handled that large drill pretty well... pretty versatile.
I'd love to upgrade my lathe with 3 phase motor and VFD - but, too much hassle really. Very difficult access the way the machine is located and probably too, I'm too old to undertake such now!
Useful RPM measuring unit.
Another truly fabulous video of how to improve an economy lathe. Three cheers.
Thanks for the demo! I’m looking at some used standard-sized machines of about 3hp. Hard to get a single phase input VFD that will produce enough amps for more than 3hp. Above that you need three phase input.
BTW, i ran across a great table from one mfg of various 3-phase motors of the same output and they all had significantly different torque & hp curves depending on how the motor was purposed, especially at low rpm. (sorry, do not recall name)
Colchester high end lathes now get by with 3 geared speeds and handle the rest of the speeds with their VFD. See the factory website. Their 3hp 13” lathes are about $15k in the US. High end 15” start near $30k, much heavier.
Good video Steve. Great job on the conversion.
Hi Steve ,Great work , looking forward to the Myford conversion.
AWESOME , Way better than stock now !
Hi Steve, this video brings it all clear now how to set it up & looking at the comments below I know where to get the motor, my lathe is the next size up but smaller than your myford, I know exactly how to go about it, in a future video can you show us how to make a guard over the pulleys, thanks, Cov UK.
Haven't seen someone use a link blet in years... refreshing to see
Thank you Steve. For a ~$250 investment it seems to improve a lot of the functionality of the mini. The thing I would miss the most though is the spindle thru hole feature even though it's only ~.88. I wanted to point out, as I have some good experience with VFD's over many years, that these lower cost units typically don't have a Constant Torque feature. It's usually a jumper setting but it allows the frequency to change based on the torque load as compensation but it does have limits with heat dissipation. However for $85 this one seems to work like a charm and have tons of features including remote controls. I might consider getting the longer extension cable and installing the pad into the old housing on the lathe and just add an E-stop. Just thoughts... Thanks again for sharing all of your great mods and your time with us!
VFD parameters usually include something like 'boost profile' or similar that allows for some extra current at lower rpms. Since current and torque are proportional, this has a similar function. Use with caution, since motor overheating can result. A good accessory is a motor temperature readout.
Great project and fantastic videos - thank you. 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
absolutly excellent and you sir are correct. even with my so called 500watt varable speed micromark mini it cannot do this!
Looking at your pulleys gave me an idea of trying variable speed torque converter like I use for my custom mini bikes....has great low end torque and high rpms , best of both worlds in my opinion.....like to see someone try that
Like to make two suggestions.
#1 you should be able to wire emergency stop button to a set of terminal's so when push & thru programming cause a dynamic braking effect or instance stop/hold . If a true emergency be necessary. We used this function on our VFD's.
#2. Make your calendar for a 3 month interval to clean cool fan blades & heat sink ridges . You'll be amazed at how much dust will collect in a "clean" shop. Saves life of fan n VFD in the long run.
Great thanks for sharing your knowledge on VFD's, it didn't cross my mind about cleaning them, I will make sure to check mine like you say.....Regards Steve
Hey Steve, Been watching your channel for a while now and also have a ML7 in the garage. Just went and bought an old Tyzack Zyto which is missing the counter shaft, pulleys and motor so will need some work to power ! I was thinking a standard AC induction motor with driving pulley up to a counter shaft with a larger pulley and a cone driving the spindle. However the spindle is fitted with a flat belt and flat pulleys rather than Vee Belt ! So the Cone on the Counter shaft would need to be flat as well. Then i thought about a DC brush less motor with variable speed control but after seeing the problems you have had I'm reconsidering this ! So now I'm thinking 3 Phase with VFD but I've no idea how to do this. For me a lot of what i do is constrained by cost. I don't work and i don't get benefits so I'm even plying with the idea of making pulleys from laminate wood material :/ I shudder at the thought but I'm skint and cant afford chunks of cash on parts that will never pay for themselves. Id like to keep the entire restoration to under £100 ! Your thoughts and suggestions are appreciated !
Hey Steve,thanks for all your videos,I'm new to mini lathe and I'm looking to upgrade the motor,but maybe something simpler than your setup,do you have any suggestions?maybe motor from other tools will work well? Does it have to be variable speed? Or will the lathe speed controller take care of it? Thanks.
Couple of points to consider...…...never spot drill with a centre drill.....if you break the small pointy end off due to too low a speed you will have to face off the end to get the point out....use a short stub drill ground to 60 deg...... Second point, you have a QCTP.....don't leave tools in it, especially carbide ones, when doing ops that aren't turning otherwise you will snag your wrist or elsewhere on your hands on the tool point or you could also hit the end of the carbide and chip it......I'm also in to VFD control on a home built micro lathe and 3 phase motors are cheap to come by.....I like your easy going style of explanation and even with my 60 + years at the machinery I still like to watch the wheels go round. one thing you miss with the new Chinese imports and that is they don't have a back gear that gives you the low down punch for hard work...….my lathe is a 1930 Colchester Bantam, 3 speeds straight and 3 back gear with flat belt drive....….soon to have a VFD too.
Although it doesn't have a back gear the torque in forward and reverse with this set-up is truly excellent. My Myford ML7 and even has advantage over my Myford ML7 as the Chinese lathe has a better chuck fitting design. One can only screw tap in forward rotation on the Myford otherwise the chuck unscrews. I never use the back gear. Whereas the Chinese lathe doesn't. I rarely break centre drills either, but its a good point you have....
@@SteveJordan Ahh yes, the dreaded screw on chuck spindle.....I have that on my old 1930 Colchester Bantam and I'm considering a mod whereby the backplate with the screwed boss is locktited permanently to the spindle nose thread (I might even weld it on ...shock horror), and the chuck (s) with another new back plate will attach to it with 4 studs and nuts....the old and now fixed back plate will have 4 slotted holes so that the chuck nuts can be slackened off and the chuck rotated a few degrees to clear the nuts for removal....nuts stay on etc...…...some of the Sieg lathes have this method. Never again will the chuck screw off in reverse......I have always had to reverse the spindle by a handle in the spindle end when screwcutting as the lathe does not have a thread indicator dial and for Metric it is a must have anyway.
SEE BUYING LINKS THE BELOW FOR THIS ACTUAL VFD MODEL, BUT......
MAKE SURE YOU CHECK WHAT VOLTAGE & ACTUAL PHASE TYPE OF VFD YOU NEED BEFORE BUYING ONE!
2.2KW 220V AC 12A Single Phase Variable Frequency Inverter General -- goo.gl/sbQccx
US Warehouse -- goo.gl/6gKvN9
SMARTSENSOR AR925 Digital Tachometer Contact Motor Tachometer -- goo.gl/9i18xR
Banggood App Promotion -- goo.gl/AuyhkV
Digital machine display tachometer goo.gl/6yGjCv
30% off Drill Bits Promotion -- goo.gl/KrG3Wh (code: 266b22 )
Hi Steve, love the videos. Im running a small surface grinder on one of these drives and i cant for the life of me find the current setting. The machine runs but isnt giving near the power id expect from the motor size. Can you help?
Hi Steve, just found your video, I'm intending to make a conversation the same as yours, is there a video explaining the change over of the drive pully on the lathe
Steve, since you made this video back in 2018 I figure you've already added a box fan to the end bell?
Hi Steve,
Absolutely loving your videos. So informative and clearly explained. It is really inspiring me to try and convince SWMBO that I could do with a lathe. This video though, and one from a guy in the states, Clough42, have got me wondering if VFD drive is the route to go one my pillar drill. It is a substantial piece of equipment but has a twin belt, triple pulley, arrangement for the variable drive speeds.
How did you go about sizing the motor please? Also, the VFD conversion that Clough42 did on his lathe used a 9 wire motor but you are using a 6 wire motor. Can you explain, in simple terms please, what the differences / advantages/disadvantages are of these options?
Hi Chaz Thanks, I just bought the VFD that would run the 3 phase motor I was buying. The VFD that I have is
2.2KW which runs up to a 3HP motor. My motor is 1HP so it is fine. I don't know the difference between 9 and 6 wire motors though. I only have basic electronics knowledge. Regards Steve
@@SteveJordan
Thanks for the quick reply. You have more of an understanding than me on the electronics though. I will do some more digging about the motor sizing as I am sure my pillar drill is bigger than 1hp.
Also, I noted that you stated the best pulley ratio you found was approximately 1.88 : 1 but on a later video you had added some tapper lock pulleys and the ratio appeared to be different as the drive looked smaller and the driven bigger. Am I right about that or just imagining it?
Have you seen the 7 video tutorial that Clough42 did on a VFD conversion for his mini lathe? He went into much more detail on the motor choice but it all went over my head and also as he is in the USA it's all 110V so I really don't understand how that converts to our 240v system. You might make more sense of it than me.
As an aside though, he used one of the extra trigger features to automatically switch on an auxiliary motor cooling fan that came on any time the VFD frequency was dropped below 10hz rather than relying on a thermal switch.
Regards Chaz
Hi. I am wanting to do this for my mini lathe which currently only has a 250 watt motor that keeps stalling out. I am having trouble finding a reasonably priced motor on eBay and find the number of choices confusing. I am wondering if you can maybe point out some worthwhile motors for me to consider? I’m in Canada so on 110v. Thanks so much for all your videos. They are very helpful.
Really good job Steve. I think in the not to distant future I will be going down this road myself.. Just a thought, This may be impractical for a few reasons I can think of, but would the VFDI fit in your now almost empty control box. What motor did you use Steve?
Hi Stephen Im going to mount the auxillery buttons on the mini lathe box. Im leaving the VFD on the wall so it is easier to keep it cool
I got same spec motor and VFD setup on 10" South Bend lathe where it really shines however on my 7x16 mini lathe the original 600 Watt motor does just fine and I never had problem with lack of power. The lack of rigidity on mini lathe over-shadows any lack of power. It's like putting 8 cylinder engine on Geo Prism, it's not going to become Porsche.
Yes you are right there, if you leave the mini lathes as they were sold without modifying them. I was pleased I completed all the upgrading of the saddle, cross-slide and compound slide first. Plus I put heavy-duty tapered roller bearings in the headstock and modified the tailstock. I can do the same type of heavier machining now, as I do with my Myford ML7. It is a truly excellent machine when upgraded, modified and made rigid.
Maybe now you can do spindle extension with threaded end and try fit pulley on that, in that way you probably gonna save open bore through the spindle. It is just a theory. What do you think?
Hi I never really use the through bore. Unless I'm using a a draw bar and this pulley allows for the use of those. There is still plenty of room for what I nèed. Others have used that idea but I don't need to. Plus you would have to make it so that it doesn't unscrew when machining in reverse.
Steve Jordan how would you secure pulley from unscrewing? Setscrew and keyway? Because in a future probably im gonna use your modification but i would like to save spindle bore.
Hi Steve, are those linked belts tolerant of misalignment?
Hi Steve, I've followed all of your upgrades and used a few of them. Now I'm planning to change to a 3 phase motor. A question for you. Did you consider leaving the existing motor and change gears installed and then operate the lathe with the change gears in neutral and the motor connected but off?
Hi no I didn't consider that although it would be ok to do so. I knew it would be great and sold the motor and internal gear assembly to pay towards the upgrade.
You can also read the motor rpm directly from the VFD.
Hi Steve,
Great improvements and it is always great to follow your progress.
I am interested in the fixed tachometer on your lathe. Had a quick look on banggood and in on my list to buy now. One question, How do you know how far to fit the magnet out from the sensor and where?
You mentioned google plus. Could you please share a link.
Keep up the good work
Best Regards,
Paul
Hi Paul, if you click on the Google+ on my main TH-cam page, in the lower right corner of the channel photo it will go straight to it. You have to get the magnet about 5mm from the pick-up and you have to check the polarity is round the correct way to activate the pick-up. When its dead right and working, a red LED flashes on the back in time with the rotation. If you need any further help, just say....Regards Steve
Paul Fisher cbc v j c :(g :) k bcc :/ j th n
Paul Fisher A
Spot on, thank you Steve.
I will look into doing this on my lathes and mill.
Might be a while away as im still busy modifying the cabinets.
Another question if i may, how do you program the diameter the magnet is into the device?
Keep well and keep it up.
Regards,
Paul
Very good upgrade Steve. A while back you did a video using end mills and using the blue nano inserts I have looked for them in bangood but cannot find them. Would it be possible to get the link for the end mill and the inserts. Thanks for any help you can give.
300R C25-25-150 Milling Tool Holder Lathe CNC Arbor -- goo.gl/gx995k
300R C14-14-150 Milling Cutter Boring Bar Turning Tool Holder-- goo.gl/Pcvooq
Drillpro 10pcs Blue Nano Coating HRC52 APMT1135PDER NB7010 Carbide Inserts-- goo.gl/coajd8
·
Tom and Steve thanks for booth of your responses. I was able to order the milling arbor and bits this evening. Steve you're review on the larger indicator holder was spot on. Bang good must of had a run on them they are no longer in stock. They only say that they will be back in stock soon. I plan on purchasing that once they are back in stock. Again thanks for booth of your help on these items. Keep up the good work on the videos Steve.
milling machine next steve ?
Thank you for sharing all the knowledge Steve!
Excuse my ignorance, I don't understand thesethings very well, but if you run a 3 phase motor ar 230v with a vfd like that ..
don't you loose alot of power when running the motor slowly?
I mean the lathe is very weak when running the motor slow??
it's a question, definately not a statement ...???
I am very interested to do something similar but am afraid to loose torque.
Thank you very much 👍
Hi. Thanks. I haven't noticed any lack of torque. It seems to be really good on drilling, etc. I have the same setup on my Myford as well. I wouldn't want to go back to single phase. Regards Steve
Thank you very much for clarifying that 👍
Why didn't you use a digital contactless tachometer? It can read anything that rotates from a distance without having to make contact with it.
I was thinking...maybe your next mod could be finding a way to place the motor without the inner shaft in the spindle?
You can fit a taper lock pulley to the spindle end and have a through bore clearance.
Very nice video. One question about the noise at 24:30 ... what is this horrendous clickety sound ? The belt ? Some damaged bearing ? This is quite distressing noise, do you know where it comes from ?
Hi Thanks, It was the belt. Which was a low cost link belt. I have since changed it for a high quality Fenner link belt that are made in the USA. Nice and quiet now. Regards Steve
Cheers Steve could probably fathom it out, had a quick look, does yours still incorporate the powered carrage
Hi Terry Thanks...Yes I still have power feed with the gears at the back end. It just takes a few minutes more to change them if I ever need to do threading. I just leave a low feed set on for power feed turning. Regards Steve
th-cam.com/video/H9t69A5Yw-E/w-d-xo.html
th-cam.com/video/uMTb7uy1HfU/w-d-xo.html
Hi Terry I have given a few video links for the lathe conversion. Its worth watching all of them the oldest dated one first as I may not have listed them in order in the replies.
th-cam.com/video/wk_Fs9kbe34/w-d-xo.html
Steve can i ask if you upgraded the head stock bearings in your Chinese mini lathe to taper roller bearings or does it still have the original plain ball bearings. Many thanks.
Yes I put tapered roller bearings in. Regards Steve
Many thanks for your reply, did you notice a lot of difference going to taper roller bearings re chatter etc. Would you say that on a new Mini lathe the plain ball bearings are ok to start with for a while or is it better to upgrade to taper roller sooner.
Hi I had my ordinary roller bearings for about 5 years without any real noticeable problems. I just changed them when the head-stock plastic gears broke up. They are obviously a great upgrade, but only noticeable on heavy duty work. To do this type of thing though would require the slides to be upgraded and made more rigid as well. For most general machining though, I found the original bearings quite adequate, but not a proper thing to use on a lathe. I reckon tapered roller bearings should be fitted as standard, considering the prices they charge for the lathe, plus it would make lubricating and repairs so much easier.
These are very low end VFDs bought one to upgrade my milling machine these VFD's do not have "SVC" sensor less vector control and do not maintain torque at low speeds, better to spend a little more to have that option. Now ill have to buy another one.
Well I have two of them and they work perfectly with both my three phase motors. The torque is also excellent at very slow speeds. It must be your motor that's up the shoot or not suited.
I have Motor 37 kw
1780 rpm
220v
Can I use this Inverter
For the Motor?
Does anyone know if there is a VFD that has a function for constant rpm variation between an upper and lower limits? This helps stop chatter.
VFD's normally run at the frequency you set them to for the sped you want...…...when the load comes on the VFD will just pile on the amps to maintain the speed within it's capacity rating. This is one reason you always buy a VFD with a bigger HP capacity than the motor you intend to control.....it would be wise to have a VFD of twice the HP rating than the motor you want to control if you are going to run it heavily. Running the motor slowly under load for any length of time is a sure way to kill it (and the VFD) due to overheating.
I would like to ask..now that you have the vfd...you can remove the gears?i mean so as to make it quieter?
Hi Alex, I have taken those out of the head-stock already.
Steve Jordan i think i will too!
I enjoy catching up on all you mini-lathe changes. It now must be worth about $3,000 US dollars. Torque and right pulleys? You could not fit a 5 HP motor behind there? You like to tinker!
With all of the upgrades, at what point do you stop calling it a chinese mini lathe? :)
Nice one
It still has the original drip tray that hasn't been upgraded.:)
Made in China assembled in the UK.
Steve where did you get the motor from. .?
I got it on Ebay here
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3-PHASE-ELECTRIC-MOTOR-0-37KW-TO-11KW-1400RPM-2800RPM-2-POLE-4-POLE-ALUMINIUM/191770300135?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&var=490794456079&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
Steve is that your 5 inch chuck on the lathe?
Hi Murray.. yes it is.
@@SteveJordan Hi Steve, I have a sc2 lathe and I'm wanting a larger chuck. 3 jaw or 4 jaw? And did the lathe motor cope ok with heavier chuck?
Hi Murray yes it was absolutely fine with the Chinese motor. It's great having a bigger chuck. Regards Steve
A simple improvement, but as I see a pulley uncovered at such a small lathe is consumes ount fear work.
Also Steve what's the HP of the motor
Hi Terry it is a 1hp 3 phase motor. I will have to look through my videos to find the upgrade later.
de
The fan of the VFD and this hi pitched fieping noise is incredible annoying
There isn't any high pitched noise on mine and you cant here the fan when machining.
Do you owe your soul to Bang Good?
RCWorks What you are saying...is BANG out of order.
Do you know anything about turning? Or is it just bay a lathe, and make a video?