Hi Paul. Good video. I recently got my hands on one of the AT4 inverters for 60 euros. I finally got my hands on a lathe, and using the inverter to run it. I got myself a nice little Colchester Bantam 2000. Power crossfeed the lot! 1200 euros delivered.
Hi George, it sounds like you got some really good deals there. Bantams are a nice lathe, more engineered than the Harrisons. I nearly got a Bantam but wanted the gap bed and also they seem to sell for quite a bit more than the Harrisons here. I'm sure you will have great fun with it. Moving machines can be very expensive. I was quoted £250 plus VAT to move the lathe 25 miles but I managed to get it shifted for £160 with a home removals company on a Luton van with a tailgate. It was loaded by the seller with a fork lift, so that end was easy, but the removal men were cursing on the day when lowering it was right on the limit of their tailgate load (550kg). Cheers
Thank you! I'm trying to decipher some of the programming parameters now for the drill press. P072 gives me clues for the Welding rotator I'm also trying to slow down on a 100:1 drive.
Hi Tom, I don't know if you are on 50Hz or 60Hz but my rotary converter is on a 75:1 reduction gearbox and I wish it were more like 100:1 (but it was cheap). Most of my work seems to be down at 1 or 2 rpm. Cheers
Hi GTB .... and actually it was £50 although I did say £60 on the vid. I think it would be fine for normal applications. If it did break after a time then it's cheap enough to just buy another (although I've no reason to think it would be unreliable). Cheers
That little inverter seems like a great unit for the money. I think some kind of reduction gearing is the best option if you keep your rotator powered by the present motor.
Hi Carl, yes I will look out for a reduction gearbox add-on to hold in the chuck, as Jim also suggested. I had a hand-crank grinder fixture a year ago but gave it away, but maybe something like that or a drill gearbox. Having said all that the rotator is pretty reliable down to 1 rpm. I will just have to learn to TIG faster. Cheers
Hi Paul, Good review and functional testing of the little VFD drive. When you need special operating modes or constant torque that when the commercial / industrial drives shine..along with the price. That drive should be fine for most home shop uses, except welding positioners...LOL Great video, enjoyed ! ATB...
HI Dean, it just proves when things appear the same outwardly they are not always the same when you get into the detail. But sometimes it takes a bit of effort and enterprise to figure that out. Cheers
Hi Dean, unbelievably effective little units VFD inverters are. When first explained it feels like there must be a catch, but nope generally they do just what it says on the box. Cheap, small, silent, lots of features and functions, and unlikely to fry the motor like static converters might. Cheers
Hi Thanks for the in depth talk through. Most useful as I was looking at one of these to bring and old wood turning lathe in use Ive had hanging around in the barn for about 20yrs...I think one of these cheap inverters will do the job nicely...Cheers
Hi Ralfy, doing fine thanks. Seems like every job I touch ends up more complicated than I planned. Always got to put the time in to really understand things, I'm finding. Can't get practical experience from a manual. Cheers
Hi Jim, a reduction stage is on my list of things to lookout for. I made the rotator when I had less experience so I did not realise most of my work would be down at 1 to 2 rpm. I was guided by rotators on ebay running at 2 to 20 rpm. I will find something in due course I'm sure. Cheers.
Thank you! This helped me a lot to setup the inverter. I have one problem. I can't change the speed while the motor is running. I have to stop it first, pick another frequency and start it again. Could this be a program setting mistake?
Hi StudioSymbol, that's not usual so it's probably a setting. If you want to go into detail then perhaps email me haxby_shed@outlook.com and I will help if I can. Cheers.
Hi. I think you have mentioned briefly how you use a inverter on your Harrison 140. I’m looking at fitting 1 to my 140 to gain some speed for working on smaller items. Can you share briefly how you did it and what speeds you get with it and if you till use all your gearbox or do you use the Inverter to got your lower speeds and keep it in high? A video would be great but I don’t expect 1 for just me. Hope your well.
Hi Grant, give me a bit of time to think and I may be able to a do another "viewer's questions" video. At the moment I'm producing video at a high rate - more than I can edit and I've releases planned weeks ahead. In brief, I wired up the inverter direct to the motor and I run it between half speed (25Hz) and full speed (50Hz) but I fitted a double size pulley to the motor so half motor speed gives me the speeds on the gearbox and full speed gives me double the speeds on the gearbox. So yes I still use the gearbox. That's a very conservative setup. The inverter should provide full motor torque up to the rated speed (50Hz speed). I'm still not used to carbide inserts and I tend to run them too slowly - but it means most of the time my motor is only on half speed hence the lathe is quiet. It's an old motor not really inverter rated but I could probably run it up to 60 or 70 Hz without any risk if I wanted to. The motor in this vid is new and probably has the same armature for 4 pole and 2 pole versions so I was happy to run it up to 100Hz double speed for this demonstration but the torque drops off quickly after the rated speed (50Hz in this case). I hope that helps. Cheers
Hi Paul, I would second Grant's ask for a video about the Harrison setup, I have my Harrison running straight to the inverter, but I would like to have the old controls on the front of the lathe wired in, and an emergency stop. It looks like I can. But there would be a bit of figuring for me to do, and if yours has it already then that is half the battle. As for videos and making them, I know what you mean. I have about 30 videos made and uploaded, but I have been posting one a day and it seems to work, If I have something immediate I can add it in. The rest is filler. I have found over the years that some videos take a while for youtube to recognise as useful, but once they do they become quite popular. The balance is that subscribers may not like these videos, as they may have seen me make something similar before. Subscribers seem to like the ongoing saga type videos with news and back and forth, but I have found that there are a lot of people out there who want the short answer to how to do something, and YT recognises that financially. I love looking at floods, people always seem surprised when it happens, and we won't learn.
@@bootsowen I aim to release a vid once a week at a fixed time, 00:30 Friday morning for our timezone, and that's manageable without too much pressure (I do have a life outside TH-cam). Ok I will try to bring forward a Harrison inverter vid and slip it in before a long series I'm working on currently.
Hi Paul, The new inverter that you have looks exactly the same as the one that I bought to run my 140, so I too would be very interested in your thoughts about the most effective set-up. I'm thinking that as my inverter will be wall mounted above ( and behind ) the top mounted gearbox levers, the remote pot to vary the speed would be useful. Being able to speed the motor up on a large facing job whilst the tool is cutting would no doubt improve the surface finish as I approach the centre. Ideally, I'd like to use the existing forward / reverse switch. If you can see a way of incorporating that in the inverter control circuit, that would be a real bonus! A VERY useful episode of Haxby Shed!
Running above rated motor HZ has a very sharp torque drop off. Below rated HZ you can achieve rated torque- but remember at half speed and at rated torque gives you half power. Unfortunately on a lathe you need maximum power and torque for large diameters. Gear-in speeds need need to be setup for your largest diameters for rated motor speed. As the diameter comes down then have your top speeds exceed the np ratings. This way you have maximum power available at your work.
Hi Paul, thanks for sharing a very interesting video... not much wrong with these cheaper inverters it seems! A thought occured to me while your video was running... have you considered the possibility of altering the gearing in the motor's reduction gearbox ? I don't know much about these bolt-on reduction gearboxes, but might be worth taking a peek inside and see if you have room for a larger (I presume) gear. If so, you might find that you only need a gear with a few more teeth to get a significantly lower speed of the rotator spindle without lowering the frequency of the inverter as far as you have to at the moment. Does that make sense? Watching you make a new gear (assuming there's room in the reduction gearbox) would make a great video... and you have all the necessary tools (you lucky blighter!). Greetings from Southport. Cheers, Kevin.
Hi Kevin, I have had the gearbox apart and there is a steel worm on the motor shaft and a bronze wheel on the output shaft. Unfortunately the relative shaft positions are fixed so I would have to make a new worm and wheel with finer pitch/teeth. But you have given me an idea, I expect those motors come with various gearbox ratio options so I will lookout for others and check their ratios. Another option people have suggested is to clamp a further reducer in the chuck - maybe from a hand crank grinder or a drill reduction gearbox. Meantime I can use it with the IMO (blue) inverter and I'm good down to 1rpm. Cheers
Hi Kevin, just to add to my first comment, I've been thinking about what you said and yes maybe I could make a replacement worm and wheel probably about the same diameter but with more teeth (finer pitch) to get more reduction. Would not be as 'strong' as the original but may be ok for this job. I will let that simmer in my brain a while and maybe do some calculations to see what reduction I could get (i.e. how fine I could go). Cheers
Hi Raquel, you are welcome. You don't get much info before you buy, and even the manual is hard to follow, so I think it helps to see one set up. Actually I sent that one back because it did not have the good torque control at low motor speeds and thus was not suitable for my specific project, but it's fine for most jobs. Cheers
Hello Paul, So will you be swapping the inverters around? thanks for the video I did not know much about inverters but know a little now.. Take care. Paul,,
Hi Paul, about the only essential parameter change in the inverter for each motor is the current overload setting. For my lathe and shaper I have dedicated inverters but for other tools/machines which are used only occasionally I can manage with one inverter between several, just on cost grounds because good inverters are expensive. Inverters really are a "miracle box" cheap and small and providing speed control (which you won't get with rotary converter or static converter). Cheers
I think there's absolutely no shame to use the cheap inverter on the shaper and the expensive one on the welding rotator. These cheap ones work perfectly fine. It would be interesting to see on your scope the difference of output they give.
Hi Michel, yes if I could add a current probe to my scope. Last time I tried to scope the VFD output voltage it was difficult to interpret. The cheap inverters seem to have more hobby-friendly functions/options for wiring and controls. Cheers
@@athrunzala5337 I think that one was was about £55 or about 66USD. They seem to be a bit more expensive now, because since January 2023 we have had to pay the 20% purchase tax (VAT) on on-line purchases on ebay (it used to be kinda hit and miss whether it was applied). Cheers
excellent video, around 12mins in you talk about P50 (wire control stop, keying stop, keying operation and stop keying) could you explain these in more detail or point me in the direction of the info you talk about on the web, thank you
Hi Andy, I found this post on www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=149931 and for convenience I copy here part of the thread some way down made 1 March 2020 which says :- "PARAM 1 wire control stop This changes the VFD default condition to run on power. With contact between com and terminal, the attached motor will not run. with no contact, the device will revert to the previous control state. It is unlikely that many workshop users will need to use this parameter. PARAM 2 keying stop should really say key start/stop This uses a single non latching push button control to activate the motor. Push the button once for on, push same button again to turn off. It requires a contact set that is NO, or 'push to make' linking com and the terminal set as P2. useful if you only have one button! PARAM 3 keying operation This changes state from deafault non run condition to the motor run condition and uses a single non latching push button control with a contact set that is NO. Pushing the button starts the motor, further button pushes have no effect unless the status has been changed by the input to another terminal. PARAM 4 stop keying This changes control state from the run condition to a stop condition and uses a single non latching push button control with a contact set that is NO. Pushing the button changes motor run state to motor off but will have no effect ( it may however interrupt jog mode if pressed during jogging ops). P3 and 4 are used normally used together to effect two button RUN and STOP controls (if that is what you want)." I've not tested these myself but the gentleman sounded very knowledgeable. Cheers
To run at very low RPM you would probably be happier with a flux vector control or one of the sensorless flux vector controls. I have had success with the vector controls running rated torque at zero speed. But those drives are industrial duty and not your $60 drives, more like $300 to $600 for 2 Hp. Full vector control requires an encoder- I tend to use 1200ppr quadrature complimentary outputs. ( and can be the cost of your motor!) AB Powerflex, ABB ACS800/880, Siemens etc are the industrial versions I am familiar with. I am sure there are others in your neck of the woods.
Hi Glenn, your comments made me jump for the handbook of my IMO Jaguar Cub (the blue inverter) and it talks about quote - "The IMO Jaguar CUB inverter delivers a higher motor starting torque using STV technology, a simplified version of IMO Jaguar’s renowned torque-vector control system for consistently powerful operation. The IMO Jaguar CUB inverter employs both advanced magnetic flux estimator and motor slip compensation with auto-boost, starting torque can be as much as 150% or more." so yes it seems to have a 'light' version of flux vector control without the sensor. The Cub is perhaps 'intermediate industrial' or 'serious hobby' grade. Over here we have plenty of options from IMO, Siemens, ABB, Mitsubishi for full industrial-grade solutions for people with deep pockets (lots of money). Cheers
@@HaxbyShed that sounds like an appropriate unit. There usually is a prescribed routine for tuning a flux vector mode of operation. Usually includes running the motor disconnected from the rest of the machine.
I have several of this ones. The only thing maybe i dont like, it doesnt matter how i configure the breaking time, its always 2 seconds. If i reduce it or increase it, it will be always 2 seconds. I suppose this is the cost for buying a cheap version. I'm comparing thsi one with Yaskawa the Ga500, V1000, J1000 where you can set the acceleration and dessaleration to the time i want it.
@@HaxbyShed Sir !, in your device can you change manually throught the panel the acceleration and dessaceleration time. I'm rechecking all my AT1's here, but its always 2.5 from 0 to full speed, and 2.5 seconds to 0. I have changed through inertia stop, breaking stop, dessaceleration stop. And nothing.
Hi Mav, unfortunately I cannot check that now because I returned it, not suiting my specific job. I needed an inverter to drive my welding positioner at 5Hz and the torque control on the AT1s is not good enough for that. I do remember when the AT1 was set to a specific speed through the digital control lines the variable speed control was inoperative. But other than that I don't remember any restrictions. Cheers
Hi...since I also have an ATI 1 2.2KW installed on a 750w three-phase motor for my lathe... and I have a problem that when the engine is running it generates an anomaly between ground and neutral of about 20/24v. it's normal and it gives me interference in the 16x2 lcd display of the tachometer controlled by arduino...I saw in your video that you put a 4-pole SHIELDED cable to the motor why? Grace in advance.
Hi Roberto, I looked at the AT1 manual and there is no mention of screened cable. However if you buy an industrial grade inverter they will specify screened cable between the inverter and the motor and also a screen on the low voltage control lines. Inverters create harmonics which can radiate and create RF radiated interference, and also on the cabling which gets back to the supply side. Some models will also recommend a filter between the inverter and the motor. Hope that helps. Cheers
Question - is it possible to set up the VFD Controller XSY-AT1 so that when turned on it works at high speed, about 2-3 minutes, but after 2-3 minutes of operation to a pre-set low speed? A pool water pump is connected to the XSY-AT1 frequency converter.
Hi, yes there is. There is no time-profiling within the inverter itself but you can assign set speeds to certain of the control pins. So you could just have an external timer with no-volt contacts across the right pins. On the model I show in the video you can assign a speed control function to any 3 of the digital inputs X1 to X6 by setting parameter P50 (for X1) through to P55 (for X6) to a value of 13 (speed input 1), 14 (speed input 2), or 15 (speed input 3) and then the speeds assigned to each 0 or 1 (tied to COMM or float) on the 3 chosen inputs are as shown in the Multi Speed Control Table initially but you can set your own speeds with parameters P26 to P33 (8 speed settings controlled by the 3 inputs). You just want two speeds by the sound of it so actually it's not difficult. Just pick an X input, assign it as a speed setting input for the speed you want on the default Multi Speed control table, and connect your timer. Note I found that if you set a fixed speed in the way I suggest then the variable speed knob won't have any effect (it only seems to work in the 'Main Speed' mode when all three speed selection inputs are unassigned or floating/open) Hope that helps.
Hi Paul. Thanks. I own a bench lathe (motor: three-phase, 1.1kw and 1400rpm) and a VFD AT-1 model. I would like to install a brake resistor, but I don't know if in this VFD I can install a brake resistor and what is the proper value. Please, could you help me? Thanks again, and I am sorry my English is not good.
Hi Jose, your English is good - no problem. I do not think AT1 has a connection for an external braking resistor. But it does have an internal electronic braking function set by P12, P13 and P14. I hope that helps. Cheers
Hi Buddha, I can see RS485 mentioned in the manual but to be honest I'm not convinced the AT1 had connections for that option. I sent it back so I can't check the unit now but when I look at pictures online they kinda support my comment. There were several (optional?) features mentioned in the manual but not populated on the board. Cheers
The only problem with invertors is that they only produce 230 volts, so the torque is not as good when your pillar drill or whatever you are controlling at a low speeds.
Hi Jeremy, I'm no expert so I cannot comment directly to your point but I've observed that good torque control and torque boost is a function you get with the more expensive industrial-grade inverters that is usually not in the cheap hobby inverters. Cheers
Hi Celia C, the short answer is I don't know but maybe a viewer will give us an answer. I did a quick Google and this is what it said "Undervoltage This is caused by low intermediate circuit DC voltage. This can be caused by a missing supply voltage phase from a blown fuse or faulty isolator or contactor or internal rectifier bridge fault or simply low mains voltage. POSSIBLE FIXES: Check mains supply and fuses. Check operation of isolator and contactor. Check incoming voltage, this may be too low." Personally I'd check the incoming voltage. Hope that helps. Cheers
Hi Vernon, in most cases you can connect up to the motor and just set the overload current parameter in the inverter. There are lots of options but you don't have to use them, especially if you are using the inverter from the front panel. Cheers
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You got a good deal from where I stand. I bought an inverter for my belt grinder a couple of years ago Interesting device. Thanks for the video.
Hi Harold, variable frequency drive inverters seem almost too good to be true, but they are true. Keep well.
You've helped demystify 3 phase inverters for me, they don't look so frightening now. Thanks for sharing.
Hi TRM, a very neat, cheap and quiet solution which bring nice features like speed control. Almost too good to be true. Cheers
YES! Very well stated, Man!
Hi Paul. Good video. I recently got my hands on one of the AT4 inverters for 60 euros. I finally got my hands on a lathe, and using the inverter to run it. I got myself a nice little Colchester Bantam 2000. Power crossfeed the lot! 1200 euros delivered.
Hi George, it sounds like you got some really good deals there. Bantams are a nice lathe, more engineered than the Harrisons. I nearly got a Bantam but wanted the gap bed and also they seem to sell for quite a bit more than the Harrisons here. I'm sure you will have great fun with it. Moving machines can be very expensive. I was quoted £250 plus VAT to move the lathe 25 miles but I managed to get it shifted for £160 with a home removals company on a Luton van with a tailgate. It was loaded by the seller with a fork lift, so that end was easy, but the removal men were cursing on the day when lowering it was right on the limit of their tailgate load (550kg). Cheers
Thank you! I'm trying to decipher some of the programming parameters now for the drill press. P072 gives me clues for the Welding rotator I'm also trying to slow down on a 100:1 drive.
Hi Tom, I don't know if you are on 50Hz or 60Hz but my rotary converter is on a 75:1 reduction gearbox and I wish it were more like 100:1 (but it was cheap). Most of my work seems to be down at 1 or 2 rpm. Cheers
@@HaxbyShed yes, 60 hz. I think my drive will only do 7-hz. Min. 1-2 min is just one needs for the positoner. Great work you are doing....thanks.
That was very interesting and I learned a lot from this, thanks. The cheap inverter still seems like good value for the money
Hi GTB .... and actually it was £50 although I did say £60 on the vid. I think it would be fine for normal applications. If it did break after a time then it's cheap enough to just buy another (although I've no reason to think it would be unreliable). Cheers
Thank you,well-spoken and informative.You've cleared up questions i have about my AT-1
Glad it helped Dan. Cheers
That little inverter seems like a great unit for the money. I think some kind of reduction gearing is the best option if you keep your rotator powered by the present motor.
Hi Carl, yes I will look out for a reduction gearbox add-on to hold in the chuck, as Jim also suggested. I had a hand-crank grinder fixture a year ago but gave it away, but maybe something like that or a drill gearbox. Having said all that the rotator is pretty reliable down to 1 rpm. I will just have to learn to TIG faster. Cheers
Sir Fault FC002 whatbthe meaning?
Hi Paul, Good review and functional testing of the little VFD drive. When you need special operating modes or constant torque that when the commercial / industrial drives shine..along with the price. That drive should be fine for most home shop uses, except welding positioners...LOL Great video, enjoyed !
ATB...
HI Dean, it just proves when things appear the same outwardly they are not always the same when you get into the detail. But sometimes it takes a bit of effort and enterprise to figure that out. Cheers
Thanks Paul, very instructive and definitely one to come back to in the future.
Best wishes, Dean.
Hi Dean, unbelievably effective little units VFD inverters are. When first explained it feels like there must be a catch, but nope generally they do just what it says on the box. Cheap, small, silent, lots of features and functions, and unlikely to fry the motor like static converters might. Cheers
Hi paul, very very welcome
Lennart
HI Lennart, thank you. Small box but does a lot. Cheers
Hi Thanks for the in depth talk through. Most useful as I was looking at one of these to bring and old wood turning lathe in use Ive had hanging around in the barn for about 20yrs...I think one of these cheap inverters will do the job nicely...Cheers
Thank you Brecian, I'm glad it was useful. Thanks for the feedback. Cheers.
How do Paul, as always informative and entertaining buddy, hope you're keeping well 👍
Hi Ralfy, doing fine thanks. Seems like every job I touch ends up more complicated than I planned. Always got to put the time in to really understand things, I'm finding. Can't get practical experience from a manual. Cheers
Excellent overview. Very useful indeed. 👏👏👍😀
Thank you Andrew. Those instructions took a bit of figuring out!
I've just found your channel. Very impressed, ill be stopping. Thanks for sharing
Thank you David. Most welcome feedback. Cheers
Your rotator might be a lot happier with a reduction stage; perhaps cobbled from a defunct cordless drill.
Hi Jim, a reduction stage is on my list of things to lookout for. I made the rotator when I had less experience so I did not realise most of my work would be down at 1 to 2 rpm. I was guided by rotators on ebay running at 2 to 20 rpm. I will find something in due course I'm sure. Cheers.
I do need this VFD for my motor can help homemade lathe ❤
Thank you Mr Rany. Cheers
Thank you! This helped me a lot to setup the inverter.
I have one problem. I can't change the speed while the motor is running. I have to stop it first, pick another frequency and start it again. Could this be a program setting mistake?
Hi StudioSymbol, that's not usual so it's probably a setting. If you want to go into detail then perhaps email me haxby_shed@outlook.com and I will help if I can. Cheers.
Hi. I think you have mentioned briefly how you use a inverter on your Harrison 140. I’m looking at fitting 1 to my 140 to gain some speed for working on smaller items. Can you share briefly how you did it and what speeds you get with it and if you till use all your gearbox or do you use the Inverter to got your lower speeds and keep it in high? A video would be great but I don’t expect 1 for just me. Hope your well.
Hi Grant, give me a bit of time to think and I may be able to a do another "viewer's questions" video. At the moment I'm producing video at a high rate - more than I can edit and I've releases planned weeks ahead. In brief, I wired up the inverter direct to the motor and I run it between half speed (25Hz) and full speed (50Hz) but I fitted a double size pulley to the motor so half motor speed gives me the speeds on the gearbox and full speed gives me double the speeds on the gearbox. So yes I still use the gearbox. That's a very conservative setup. The inverter should provide full motor torque up to the rated speed (50Hz speed). I'm still not used to carbide inserts and I tend to run them too slowly - but it means most of the time my motor is only on half speed hence the lathe is quiet. It's an old motor not really inverter rated but I could probably run it up to 60 or 70 Hz without any risk if I wanted to. The motor in this vid is new and probably has the same armature for 4 pole and 2 pole versions so I was happy to run it up to 100Hz double speed for this demonstration but the torque drops off quickly after the rated speed (50Hz in this case). I hope that helps. Cheers
Hi Paul, I would second Grant's ask for a video about the Harrison setup, I have my Harrison running straight to the inverter, but I would like to have the old controls on the front of the lathe wired in, and an emergency stop. It looks like I can. But there would be a bit of figuring for me to do, and if yours has it already then that is half the battle.
As for videos and making them, I know what you mean. I have about 30 videos made and uploaded, but I have been posting one a day and it seems to work, If I have something immediate I can add it in. The rest is filler. I have found over the years that some videos take a while for youtube to recognise as useful, but once they do they become quite popular. The balance is that subscribers may not like these videos, as they may have seen me make something similar before. Subscribers seem to like the ongoing saga type videos with news and back and forth, but I have found that there are a lot of people out there who want the short answer to how to do something, and YT recognises that financially.
I love looking at floods, people always seem surprised when it happens, and we won't learn.
@@bootsowen I aim to release a vid once a week at a fixed time, 00:30 Friday morning for our timezone, and that's manageable without too much pressure (I do have a life outside TH-cam). Ok I will try to bring forward a Harrison inverter vid and slip it in before a long series I'm working on currently.
@@HaxbyShed There's no rush with it, or indeed any need to do it at all. Focus on what you love! Thanks for the help so far!
Hi Paul, The new inverter that you have looks exactly the same as the one that I bought to run my 140, so I too would be very interested in your thoughts about the most effective set-up. I'm thinking that as my inverter will be wall mounted above ( and behind ) the top mounted gearbox levers, the remote pot to vary the speed would be useful. Being able to speed the motor up on a large facing job whilst the tool is cutting would no doubt improve the surface finish as I approach the centre. Ideally, I'd like to use the existing forward / reverse switch. If you can see a way of incorporating that in the inverter control circuit, that would be a real bonus! A VERY useful episode of Haxby Shed!
Running above rated motor HZ has a very sharp torque drop off. Below rated HZ you can achieve rated torque- but remember at half speed and at rated torque gives you half power. Unfortunately on a lathe you need maximum power and torque for large diameters. Gear-in speeds need need to be setup for your largest diameters for rated motor speed. As the diameter comes down then have your top speeds exceed the np ratings. This way you have maximum power available at your work.
Hi Glenn, yes I understand your comment thanks. Cheers
Excellent video Paul. Well done.
Thank you Morgan. Cheers
Hi Paul, thanks for sharing a very interesting video... not much wrong with these cheaper inverters it seems! A thought occured to me while your video was running... have you considered the possibility of altering the gearing in the motor's reduction gearbox ? I don't know much about these bolt-on reduction gearboxes, but might be worth taking a peek inside and see if you have room for a larger (I presume) gear. If so, you might find that you only need a gear with a few more teeth to get a significantly lower speed of the rotator spindle without lowering the frequency of the inverter as far as you have to at the moment. Does that make sense? Watching you make a new gear (assuming there's room in the reduction gearbox) would make a great video... and you have all the necessary tools (you lucky blighter!). Greetings from Southport. Cheers, Kevin.
Hi Kevin, I have had the gearbox apart and there is a steel worm on the motor shaft and a bronze wheel on the output shaft. Unfortunately the relative shaft positions are fixed so I would have to make a new worm and wheel with finer pitch/teeth. But you have given me an idea, I expect those motors come with various gearbox ratio options so I will lookout for others and check their ratios. Another option people have suggested is to clamp a further reducer in the chuck - maybe from a hand crank grinder or a drill reduction gearbox. Meantime I can use it with the IMO (blue) inverter and I'm good down to 1rpm. Cheers
Hi Kevin, just to add to my first comment, I've been thinking about what you said and yes maybe I could make a replacement worm and wheel probably about the same diameter but with more teeth (finer pitch) to get more reduction. Would not be as 'strong' as the original but may be ok for this job. I will let that simmer in my brain a while and maybe do some calculations to see what reduction I could get (i.e. how fine I could go). Cheers
great video tutorial❤ thank you for sharing your knowledge❤❤❤
Hi Raquel, you are welcome. You don't get much info before you buy, and even the manual is hard to follow, so I think it helps to see one set up. Actually I sent that one back because it did not have the good torque control at low motor speeds and thus was not suitable for my specific project, but it's fine for most jobs. Cheers
Hello Paul,
So will you be swapping the inverters around? thanks for the video I did not know much about inverters but know a little now..
Take care.
Paul,,
Hi Paul, about the only essential parameter change in the inverter for each motor is the current overload setting. For my lathe and shaper I have dedicated inverters but for other tools/machines which are used only occasionally I can manage with one inverter between several, just on cost grounds because good inverters are expensive. Inverters really are a "miracle box" cheap and small and providing speed control (which you won't get with rotary converter or static converter). Cheers
I think there's absolutely no shame to use the cheap inverter on the shaper and the expensive one on the welding rotator. These cheap ones work perfectly fine.
It would be interesting to see on your scope the difference of output they give.
Hi Michel, yes if I could add a current probe to my scope. Last time I tried to scope the VFD output voltage it was difficult to interpret. The cheap inverters seem to have more hobby-friendly functions/options for wiring and controls. Cheers
@@HaxbyShed How much have you paid for the Chineseum VFD?
@@athrunzala5337 I think that one was was about £55 or about 66USD. They seem to be a bit more expensive now, because since January 2023 we have had to pay the 20% purchase tax (VAT) on on-line purchases on ebay (it used to be kinda hit and miss whether it was applied). Cheers
@@HaxbyShed Because they are financing war in Ukraine against Russia from our pockets without our consent . . cheers and thank you for the info
excellent video, around 12mins in you talk about P50 (wire control stop, keying stop, keying operation and stop keying) could you explain these in more detail or point me in the direction of the info you talk about on the web, thank you
Hi Andy, I found this post on www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/postings.asp?th=149931 and for convenience I copy here part of the thread some way down made 1 March 2020 which says :-
"PARAM 1 wire control stop This changes the VFD default condition to run on power. With contact between com and terminal, the attached motor will not run. with no contact, the device will revert to the previous control state. It is unlikely that many workshop users will need to use this parameter.
PARAM 2 keying stop should really say key start/stop This uses a single non latching push button control to activate the motor. Push the button once for on, push same button again to turn off. It requires a contact set that is NO, or 'push to make' linking com and the terminal set as P2. useful if you only have one button!
PARAM 3 keying operation This changes state from deafault non run condition to the motor run condition and uses a single non latching push button control with a contact set that is NO. Pushing the button starts the motor, further button pushes have no effect unless the status has been changed by the input to another terminal.
PARAM 4 stop keying This changes control state from the run condition to a stop condition and uses a single non latching push button control with a contact set that is NO. Pushing the button changes motor run state to motor off but will have no effect ( it may however interrupt jog mode if pressed during jogging ops). P3 and 4 are used normally used together to effect two button RUN and STOP controls (if that is what you want)."
I've not tested these myself but the gentleman sounded very knowledgeable. Cheers
@@HaxbyShed that is perfect, thank you for you fast reply, I really appreciate it, this has been bugging me for over 6 months now.
@@highlander3666 You are welcome Andy. Happy to help.
To run at very low RPM you would probably be happier with a flux vector control or one of the sensorless flux vector controls. I have had success with the vector controls running rated torque at zero speed. But those drives are industrial duty and not your $60 drives, more like $300 to $600 for 2 Hp. Full vector control requires an encoder- I tend to use 1200ppr quadrature complimentary outputs. ( and can be the cost of your motor!) AB Powerflex, ABB ACS800/880, Siemens etc are the industrial versions I am familiar with. I am sure there are others in your neck of the woods.
Hi Glenn, your comments made me jump for the handbook of my IMO Jaguar Cub (the blue inverter) and it talks about quote - "The IMO Jaguar CUB inverter delivers a higher motor starting torque using STV technology, a simplified version of IMO Jaguar’s renowned torque-vector control system for consistently powerful operation. The IMO Jaguar CUB inverter employs both advanced magnetic flux estimator and motor slip compensation with auto-boost, starting torque can be as much as 150% or more." so yes it seems to have a 'light' version of flux vector control without the sensor. The Cub is perhaps 'intermediate industrial' or 'serious hobby' grade. Over here we have plenty of options from IMO, Siemens, ABB, Mitsubishi for full industrial-grade solutions for people with deep pockets (lots of money). Cheers
@@HaxbyShed that sounds like an appropriate unit. There usually is a prescribed routine for tuning a flux vector mode of operation. Usually includes running the motor disconnected from the rest of the machine.
I have several of this ones. The only thing maybe i dont like, it doesnt matter how i configure the breaking time, its always 2 seconds. If i reduce it or increase it, it will be always 2 seconds. I suppose this is the cost for buying a cheap version. I'm comparing thsi one with Yaskawa the Ga500, V1000, J1000 where you can set the acceleration and dessaleration to the time i want it.
Thanks for sharing the the info Mav, cheers.
@@HaxbyShed Sir !, in your device can you change manually throught the panel the acceleration and dessaceleration time. I'm rechecking all my AT1's here, but its always 2.5 from 0 to full speed, and 2.5 seconds to 0. I have changed through inertia stop, breaking stop, dessaceleration stop. And nothing.
Hi Mav, unfortunately I cannot check that now because I returned it, not suiting my specific job. I needed an inverter to drive my welding positioner at 5Hz and the torque control on the AT1s is not good enough for that. I do remember when the AT1 was set to a specific speed through the digital control lines the variable speed control was inoperative. But other than that I don't remember any restrictions. Cheers
Thanks for sharing 👍
Craig, you are welcome, as always. Cheers
thankyou thats a great help
You're welcome. Cheers
Hi...since I also have an ATI 1 2.2KW installed on a 750w three-phase motor for my lathe... and I have a problem that when the engine is running it generates an anomaly between ground and neutral of about 20/24v. it's normal and it gives me interference in the 16x2 lcd display of the tachometer controlled by arduino...I saw in your video that you put a 4-pole SHIELDED cable to the motor why?
Grace in advance.
Hi Roberto, I looked at the AT1 manual and there is no mention of screened cable. However if you buy an industrial grade inverter they will specify screened cable between the inverter and the motor and also a screen on the low voltage control lines. Inverters create harmonics which can radiate and create RF radiated interference, and also on the cabling which gets back to the supply side. Some models will also recommend a filter between the inverter and the motor. Hope that helps. Cheers
Question - is it possible to set up the VFD Controller XSY-AT1 so that when turned on it works at high speed, about 2-3 minutes, but after 2-3 minutes of operation to a pre-set low speed? A pool water pump is connected to the XSY-AT1 frequency converter.
Hi, yes there is. There is no time-profiling within the inverter itself but you can assign set speeds to certain of the control pins. So you could just have an external timer with no-volt contacts across the right pins. On the model I show in the video you can assign a speed control function to any 3 of the digital inputs X1 to X6 by setting parameter P50 (for X1) through to P55 (for X6) to a value of 13 (speed input 1), 14 (speed input 2), or 15 (speed input 3) and then the speeds assigned to each 0 or 1 (tied to COMM or float) on the 3 chosen inputs are as shown in the Multi Speed Control Table initially but you can set your own speeds with parameters P26 to P33 (8 speed settings controlled by the 3 inputs). You just want two speeds by the sound of it so actually it's not difficult. Just pick an X input, assign it as a speed setting input for the speed you want on the default Multi Speed control table, and connect your timer. Note I found that if you set a fixed speed in the way I suggest then the variable speed knob won't have any effect (it only seems to work in the 'Main Speed' mode when all three speed selection inputs are unassigned or floating/open) Hope that helps.
Hello ive just picked up this inverter . My question is what value variable resistor do i need for external speed control?
Hi Chase, from memory it's 10k linear. Cheers
Hi Paul. Thanks. I own a bench lathe (motor: three-phase, 1.1kw and 1400rpm) and a VFD AT-1 model. I would like to install a brake resistor, but I don't know if in this VFD I can install a brake resistor and what is the proper value. Please, could you help me? Thanks again, and I am sorry my English is not good.
Hi Jose, your English is good - no problem. I do not think AT1 has a connection for an external braking resistor. But it does have an internal electronic braking function set by P12, P13 and P14. I hope that helps. Cheers
@@HaxbyShed Ok, Paul. Thank you very much.
Do you know which one of the connectors on the board are for RS485+ and RS485-??
Hi Buddha, I can see RS485 mentioned in the manual but to be honest I'm not convinced the AT1 had connections for that option. I sent it back so I can't check the unit now but when I look at pictures online they kinda support my comment. There were several (optional?) features mentioned in the manual but not populated on the board. Cheers
The only problem with invertors is that they only produce 230 volts, so the torque is not as good when your pillar drill or whatever you are controlling at a low speeds.
Hi Jeremy, I'm no expert so I cannot comment directly to your point but I've observed that good torque control and torque boost is a function you get with the more expensive industrial-grade inverters that is usually not in the cheap hobby inverters. Cheers
I have a problem inverter shows " low voltage " is this fixable??.
Hi Celia C, the short answer is I don't know but maybe a viewer will give us an answer. I did a quick Google and this is what it said "Undervoltage
This is caused by low intermediate circuit DC voltage. This can be caused by a missing supply voltage phase from a blown fuse or faulty isolator or contactor or internal rectifier bridge fault or simply low mains voltage.
POSSIBLE FIXES:
Check mains supply and fuses.
Check operation of isolator and contactor.
Check incoming voltage, this may be too low."
Personally I'd check the incoming voltage. Hope that helps. Cheers
wow,, that is way to complicated for me to be able to set up.
Hi Vernon, in most cases you can connect up to the motor and just set the overload current parameter in the inverter. There are lots of options but you don't have to use them, especially if you are using the inverter from the front panel. Cheers
Your vfd price
Hi it was quite a long time ago now but I think it was about £50? I think prices have gone up. Cheers
@@HaxbyShed can you suggest me vfd for 2hp single phase motor
@@faizi307 Hi, 2HP is 1.5kW but I do not have any experience with inverters to drive single phase motors, sorry.
I really messed up my settings. Motor won’t run anymore
John there is usually a factory reset command to 'get out of jail'. I've used it a few times. Cheers
Remember if its cheap its not good & if its good its not cheap what you do with Electrics is well out of my depth
HI Alain, in this case you are right. This morning I sent you an email with some carbide inserts info. Cheers.
@@HaxbyShed Thanks Paul did you see the pics i sent what do you think to the hight of the Parting tool ?