I won a game by bluffing as heretic last day and getting the good twin to execute herself. It was a poppygrower game and my demon and I found each other but I wasn’t sure which twin was evil. My demon was confident and wrong about which twin it was, and we were about to push the evil twin through to execution. I’d been sketchy AF the whole game, and managed to spin that as “Of COURSE I’ve been evasive, I’m the heretic and didn’t want to clue the evil team in so they could throw the game.” Still not sure how that worked!
Thanks for sharing this. I am really enjoying these games. I look forward to being able to play it someday. The strategy is off the hook. The players here are all excellent and engaging.
I'm now imagining a game of Sects & Violets with a Heretic (Heretics & Violets?) with the Heretic not in play or as a bluff. The Pit Hag would be a no go, but a Vigor Mortis and Cerenovus combo for the evil team would be fun. An undead Cerenovus creating mad Heretics everywhere would be insane (literally). Cheers for sharing another fun game.
Luckily they made a jinx that pit hag cannot make a heretic, imagine every game ending on night 1 with demon self kill and pit hag becoming a heretic 😂
Not a spoiler per se, but I’m about to compliment one of the players and if you think you might read something into that, be warned. ... ... ... ... ... ... Edd, that was freaking awesome! Heck yeah!!!
Without a possible Heretic or the role that changes win condition to executing the Storyteller, there is functionally zero mechanical reason where star passing the Recluse would matter (unless for some reason a Pit Hag turned someone into the Recluse that was… evil?)
@@meathir4921 Expect for if it would mean that the good star-passed demon was in the final three (any earlier and that and the good demon can just sudoku), which would mean they have to convince the rest of the team that they are the demon, and that the other two alive players aren't the demon, which is not always an easy thing to do.
How about a recluse sat next to a demon candidate in a script with the marionette? It'd be fairly niche - ideally you'd want a game where the demon has already bluffed to them that they're a marionette, but it would be very interesting.
I get a real kick out of Hazel's plays. She's obviously good at the game but she's also committed to being as unhelpful as possible to everyone. Everyone she doesn't have strong vibes from at least
I have no live experience with this, but I genuinely wonder, whether not so expert players (not new players!) would fare better with the heretic. I believe expert players are maybe TOO set in their ways of thinking and their ways to figuring things out to easily adapt to it. Though that is - as I said - just a theory.
What happens if the poisoner poisons the Recluse that registered as a minion for Investigator? Would the ST change the investigator's ping(s) or just have 2 false readings?
Yep, pretty much. A poisoned Recluse may lose their ability, rendering them essentially unable of registering as anything other than Recluse/Outsider. Seeing as though the Investigator was sober, I'm obliged to show them a character who is actively registering as a Minion.
Their power says they have to star pass to a Minion, so that would only work with a Good Minion, which is obviously also possible with a Pit Hag. The evil imp can't star pass to an evil townsfolk or outsider either.
I don't recall this exact moment, because it was months ago, but I suspect it's probably because they attacked the Mayor, who can bounce kills off onto other players. - Ben
I've been binge-watching these games for the past couple of days and in the last dozen games I've watched, Ben has bent over backward to hand the win to evil in 10 of them. I get his usual argument of "well, evil starts behind so they need help" and "you can always help good later" but then, when good has been on the losing end, he actively hasn't helped them. A few times, I've even seen him actively help evil when evil is clearly ahead and good has no idea who the evil team are, are spending their days actively arguing and pointing fingers at each other, etc. Does he realize he's ST and not actually playing for the evil team? Reminds me of a DM who confuses running the story with trying to win against his players. And now here he is reminding the evil team to star pass when the demon is on the ropes and hadn't thought to star pass. Um, Ben, you gotta choose m'man: Are you the ST or are you a player? Maybe some of the long time viewers and players of this game like the above-and-beyond ST interference for the memes - and it probably makes the games more entertaining for Ben because he's seen so many games play out - but as a relatively new viewer of BotC, I'm legit finding it frustrating that the ST is so actively pushing for the evil win in every game despite how well or not well each team is playing. The first couple times, I thought I'd just hit a weird grouping of episodes that all went the same way, but after so many of them in a row that have gone this way, it's clear that Ben has a bias (whether he realizes it or not) and he's taking his duty to "balance" the game as storyteller well across the line into flat-out playing for the evil team. I mean, you might as well become a football ref and kick the ball into the goal for your favorite team whenever you get the chance. The really frustrating games are the ones where evil is playing poorly, making bad choices, etc. and good is playing pro-level strats, and Ben hobbles good so badly to "keep it balanced" that evil ends up winning despite having not made a single good play. At some point, doesn't a team -- good or evil -- deserve the win when they've clearly outplayed the other team? Stealing it away from them to "keep it balanced" or because "it'll be entertaining" just undermines the "game" part of the game. Like, in those cases, why should anybody bother playing their roles? Just sit around the table, nominate whoever you want (or don't), and wait for Ben to tell you who he's decided will win the game. I'd love to go back over the videos on this channel sometime and see how many games evil has won vs. how many good has won when Ben is ST because I bet the numbers heavily skew evil. I like Ben, honestly, but sheesh, dude. Sometimes you have to let the players actually play the game.
Hi John. Thanks for the comments/feedback. I can obviously only go off of my subjective experience helping to develop, ship, and subsequently run Blood on the Clocktower, so it's absolutely possible that you have some insights I don't. I'm also only human, so I make plenty of mistakes and it's equally as possible that I made several in some (or all) of the videos you've watched. However..... When running this game, you really should take most (if not all) opportunities to help out evil. The ST is bound by the rules and in almost all games, the rules will create multiple opportunities where you are mechanically obliged to give a good player sober, healthy and correct information. it is extremely rare for a good team to not have the tools at their disposal to solve the game. Subsequently, the Storyteller's job is to do whatever it takes to get the game to a 'final 3' situation where, even if they have somehow managed to not get any information at all, the good team have (at minimum) a 1 in 3 chance of victory. With all due respect, your comment is comparing the games you've seen on here to some hypothetical other games where I took less opportunities to allow evil abilities to effect the good team's chances of solving the game. These games are hypothetical for you because you haven't seen them, but they do exist, and they all ended in under 2 days with the good team stomping evil into the ground because of how insanely powerful every Townsfolk can be without a decent amount of misinformation. I suspect you haven't run many games yourself, because if you had, you would almost certainly not have typed out this comment. I would encourage you to give it a go. it's a lot of fun and will give you a decent amount of insight into why us Storytellers take as many opportunities as we can to back evil's plays. - Ben
"Richie is not poisoned" - Richie, the poisoned Drunk
I won a game by bluffing as heretic last day and getting the good twin to execute herself. It was a poppygrower game and my demon and I found each other but I wasn’t sure which twin was evil. My demon was confident and wrong about which twin it was, and we were about to push the evil twin through to execution.
I’d been sketchy AF the whole game, and managed to spin that as “Of COURSE I’ve been evasive, I’m the heretic and didn’t want to clue the evil team in so they could throw the game.” Still not sure how that worked!
Niiiiiice
Thanks for sharing this. I am really enjoying these games. I look forward to being able to play it someday. The strategy is off the hook. The players here are all excellent and engaging.
I'm now imagining a game of Sects & Violets with a Heretic (Heretics & Violets?) with the Heretic not in play or as a bluff.
The Pit Hag would be a no go, but a Vigor Mortis and Cerenovus combo for the evil team would be fun. An undead Cerenovus creating mad Heretics everywhere would be insane (literally).
Cheers for sharing another fun game.
Luckily they made a jinx that pit hag cannot make a heretic, imagine every game ending on night 1 with demon self kill and pit hag becoming a heretic 😂
@@eggyolk6735that would take until night 2
Not a spoiler per se, but I’m about to compliment one of the players and if you think you might read something into that, be warned.
...
...
...
...
...
...
Edd, that was freaking awesome! Heck yeah!!!
1st night starts at 10:30 :D
Really fun game
Y'know, if you got an entire chain of 3+ people claiming "Saint," might you term that a... Saint's Row?
44:47 i'm stunned
Out of curiosity, can you think of any other situation in which you might allow a starpass to the Recluse? With or without minions alive, too?
Without a possible Heretic or the role that changes win condition to executing the Storyteller, there is functionally zero mechanical reason where star passing the Recluse would matter (unless for some reason a Pit Hag turned someone into the Recluse that was… evil?)
@@meathir4921 Expect for if it would mean that the good star-passed demon was in the final three (any earlier and that and the good demon can just sudoku), which would mean they have to convince the rest of the team that they are the demon, and that the other two alive players aren't the demon, which is not always an easy thing to do.
How about a recluse sat next to a demon candidate in a script with the marionette? It'd be fairly niche - ideally you'd want a game where the demon has already bluffed to them that they're a marionette, but it would be very interesting.
heph outcast, in case anyone sees this later
I get a real kick out of Hazel's plays. She's obviously good at the game but she's also committed to being as unhelpful as possible to everyone. Everyone she doesn't have strong vibes from at least
I have no live experience with this, but I genuinely wonder, whether not so expert players (not new players!) would fare better with the heretic. I believe expert players are maybe TOO set in their ways of thinking and their ways to figuring things out to easily adapt to it. Though that is - as I said - just a theory.
Love watching these games, would love to get involved in a game at some point.
What happens if the poisoner poisons the Recluse that registered as a minion for Investigator? Would the ST change the investigator's ping(s) or just have 2 false readings?
Yep, pretty much. A poisoned Recluse may lose their ability, rendering them essentially unable of registering as anything other than Recluse/Outsider. Seeing as though the Investigator was sober, I'm obliged to show them a character who is actively registering as a Minion.
@@bennburns thanks, with the discussion of changing set up tokens mid night, I thought this would be one of those times you Should chance them.
Which BOT are you using for discord?
It's called Moveer. - Ben
@@BloodontheClocktower thanks! This will do for now. Can't wait to play it in real life!!!
I can't get this question out of my head. If the Imp is Good, then can they starpass to another good player?
Their power says they have to star pass to a Minion, so that would only work with a Good Minion, which is obviously also possible with a Pit Hag. The evil imp can't star pass to an evil townsfolk or outsider either.
What a game
Guys why does the storyteller change the kill to be different to who the demon picks? Am confused
I don't recall this exact moment, because it was months ago, but I suspect it's probably because they attacked the Mayor, who can bounce kills off onto other players. - Ben
@@BloodontheClocktower oh I had no idea! Thank you so much for the response. Love your vids.
I've been binge-watching these games for the past couple of days and in the last dozen games I've watched, Ben has bent over backward to hand the win to evil in 10 of them. I get his usual argument of "well, evil starts behind so they need help" and "you can always help good later" but then, when good has been on the losing end, he actively hasn't helped them. A few times, I've even seen him actively help evil when evil is clearly ahead and good has no idea who the evil team are, are spending their days actively arguing and pointing fingers at each other, etc. Does he realize he's ST and not actually playing for the evil team? Reminds me of a DM who confuses running the story with trying to win against his players. And now here he is reminding the evil team to star pass when the demon is on the ropes and hadn't thought to star pass. Um, Ben, you gotta choose m'man: Are you the ST or are you a player?
Maybe some of the long time viewers and players of this game like the above-and-beyond ST interference for the memes - and it probably makes the games more entertaining for Ben because he's seen so many games play out - but as a relatively new viewer of BotC, I'm legit finding it frustrating that the ST is so actively pushing for the evil win in every game despite how well or not well each team is playing. The first couple times, I thought I'd just hit a weird grouping of episodes that all went the same way, but after so many of them in a row that have gone this way, it's clear that Ben has a bias (whether he realizes it or not) and he's taking his duty to "balance" the game as storyteller well across the line into flat-out playing for the evil team. I mean, you might as well become a football ref and kick the ball into the goal for your favorite team whenever you get the chance.
The really frustrating games are the ones where evil is playing poorly, making bad choices, etc. and good is playing pro-level strats, and Ben hobbles good so badly to "keep it balanced" that evil ends up winning despite having not made a single good play. At some point, doesn't a team -- good or evil -- deserve the win when they've clearly outplayed the other team? Stealing it away from them to "keep it balanced" or because "it'll be entertaining" just undermines the "game" part of the game. Like, in those cases, why should anybody bother playing their roles? Just sit around the table, nominate whoever you want (or don't), and wait for Ben to tell you who he's decided will win the game.
I'd love to go back over the videos on this channel sometime and see how many games evil has won vs. how many good has won when Ben is ST because I bet the numbers heavily skew evil. I like Ben, honestly, but sheesh, dude. Sometimes you have to let the players actually play the game.
Hi John. Thanks for the comments/feedback. I can obviously only go off of my subjective experience helping to develop, ship, and subsequently run Blood on the Clocktower, so it's absolutely possible that you have some insights I don't. I'm also only human, so I make plenty of mistakes and it's equally as possible that I made several in some (or all) of the videos you've watched. However.....
When running this game, you really should take most (if not all) opportunities to help out evil. The ST is bound by the rules and in almost all games, the rules will create multiple opportunities where you are mechanically obliged to give a good player sober, healthy and correct information. it is extremely rare for a good team to not have the tools at their disposal to solve the game. Subsequently, the Storyteller's job is to do whatever it takes to get the game to a 'final 3' situation where, even if they have somehow managed to not get any information at all, the good team have (at minimum) a 1 in 3 chance of victory.
With all due respect, your comment is comparing the games you've seen on here to some hypothetical other games where I took less opportunities to allow evil abilities to effect the good team's chances of solving the game. These games are hypothetical for you because you haven't seen them, but they do exist, and they all ended in under 2 days with the good team stomping evil into the ground because of how insanely powerful every Townsfolk can be without a decent amount of misinformation.
I suspect you haven't run many games yourself, because if you had, you would almost certainly not have typed out this comment. I would encourage you to give it a go. it's a lot of fun and will give you a decent amount of insight into why us Storytellers take as many opportunities as we can to back evil's plays.
- Ben
Ben basically played this game by himself. He made so many game changing "suggestions"
Yes why did he change the kill?
@@ae5704 When the Imp attacked Kat? It was a mayor bounce. Part of the mayor's power is that if the demon attacks them someone else might die.
@@andsailedcalmlyon yea haha ik that now oops, thanks tho :)