I hated it because I was forced to watch it over and over because my dad was obsessed with it, and I just remember it being so long and boring (as a kid). I recently watched it again when it was rereleased in theaters and I liked it a lot. I didn’t even realize it was widely hated till I saw this video.
You hit on something interesting here. Sometimes when we go back and revisit something we disliked as a child, we can be pleasantly surprised how the same experience feels when we have aged.
I use to hate the phantom of the opera and titanic cause my mom had it on replay. I revisited it a few years ago and now I’m the one who always has it on replay😭. I didn’t know there were so many people who didn’t like avatar till this year…
This is how I felt with PepperAnne. I’m surprised how much I hated the show as a child. I absolutely love it now that I’m an adult and revisited it this year!
Honestly I don't think it was hated... A certain anti-woke sentiment(and I don't judge people who feel that way as it has oversaturated most media whatever you feel about a cause, these things get to be too represented) has merged with pro war and other critical sensibilities to blow the film's bad qualities out of proportion.
But it's so cool cuz at the end during the credits, you get Superhero A from Superhero B movie that'll say something like 'we got a problem', bass goes boom and back to credits and the people are like 'whooooaaaaaa'
Not me. I haven't paid to see a superhero movie since The Dark Knight. I spent more money renting Avatar on DVD than I have spent on the entire MCU. And I'm not watching either franchise because they're both worthless.
I think it’s hated so heavily not because it’s raw dogshit but because of how average and meh the story is next to it’s earnings. People don’t hate an underwhelming ok at best movie, they hate that said movie somehow got to the heights avatar did.
I think the biggest reason Avatar is disliked is because it was promoted relentlessly for like 5 years. The same issue Frozen has. It was the marketing, not the actual film itself.
Based on my observation, when headlines came out with how much money this movie needs to make just to “break even,” people started wanting it to fail just because.
Never hated it. Just very forgettable to me. I heard how great it was and decided to give it a watch back when it first came out, then promptly never thought about it. Until about 3 years later, when a girlfriend mentioned a sequel to which I said "Why?" And "Hasn't it been a while since the first one? Who would want to see a sequel?" Then this year I heard about the sequel and said "Huh, I guess my ex was right."
You might eat your words soon because they are 2 confirmed sequels and another speculated 2 movies, coming out every two years. (Dec 2024, 2026 and so fourth)...I guess we will be forced to not forget it
For the most part I feel the movies are more or less a tech demo. The premise is fine. Humanity at the start of their Star Faring History and the Na'vi and Pandora just being a speed bum that if Humanity succeeds in conquering will be nothing more than a footnote in the History of Humanity.
I was actually in the military when the first movie came out. I went to see it in theaters and, yeah, it sounds crazy, but I could totally understand why Jake would feel more welcome and comfortable around the other military characters. That bit in the beginning about a good ol' fashioned safety briefing was something that totally made sense to me. There really is something comforting about the familiarity of routine.
People expecting Jake to side with aliens from the beginning is stupid. These aliens have been trying to kills his brothers in arms. Jake just wanted to be able to walk again. He decided to follow the orders to uphold the deal he was presented.
I have always wondered how the military/humans are supposed to be the baddies. Humanity is dying and needs unobtanium, and the navi were completely uncooperative no matter how humanity approached them. Hell they created alien bodies for communication. You cant be more hardcore than that. At the same time, navi tribes were in war with each other for generations so it's not like violence is a unknown animal for them. Those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones
@@Bullshitvol2 Oh, don't get me wrong. I believe the military leadership and the corporations mining another planet and killing the native inhabitants are DEFINITELY the baddies. 100%. If Earth is dying, it's humanity's fault, and it doesn't give them any right to do what they're doing. Just wanted to make that clear.
@@sparkymularkey6970 Really? So let me ask another question. In the movie District 9 the situation was reversed. Here it was the technologically superior but dying alien race that arrived at earth and was dependend for help from native humans. They traded technology to warlords and gangs for food and created incredible powerful criminal forces What is your opinion for that movie? This is a catch question, because the only way for you not being a hipocrite would be to take the site of humanity and regard the stranded aliens as baddies regardless of their situation. I mean their ship being stranded is 100% their fault and it doesn't give them any right to do what they're doing
@@sparkymularkey6970 ...and your your comment got filtered. Looks like not even youtube appreciate how you talk about humanity and Avatars Resources Development Administration lol.
When I saw the film as a kid, it really captured and stoked my already overactive imagination. I was fascinated by the strange and sometimes terrifying world of Pandora. I really felt the conflict Jake had to deal with between the humans and the Na'vi. I felt the emotion when the Quaritch callously destroys the Hometree and bulldozes the Tree of Souls. I was on the edge of my seat at the end, hoping that Jake would be successfully transferred to the Avatar permanently. I had never seen Ferngully or Dances with Wolves (and I still haven't) so I did not give a **** about the story being 'derivative' or 'unoriginal'. That's the sort of thing professional critics whine about. Normal moviegoers just want to get swept up by a good movies like I was. Unlike too many of the films released today, I really feel like this one had a soul, that the filmmakers actually cared about what they were doing.
Same dude Avatar was something I fell in love with and it inspired me to become a writer of my own stories. Love it to its very core with the world-building, story, characters, and allegories.
I think a large portion of that hate comes from just how overhyped it was. When something gets endlessly talked about and shoved in people's faces, that can breed contempt and even resentment, and people grow hungry for quite literally _anything_ else.
But haters generally bring up a lack of cultural impact as a sign that Avatar didn't actually resonate with anyone despite being the highest grossing movie ever. They act as though Avatar made all that movie in the theater and no one ever thought about it again just because people don't make memes from it.
It's literally not overhyped though lol. The technology on this movie back in 2009 is still better than most movies these days, almost 15 years later. Everyone always said the story was very basic, this isn't a new take. That's literally not the point of these movies. If you hate something because it's good you're just an idi0t.
My case, it was so overhyped because it has visual spectacle and Pocahontesque plot that I just couldn't like due to expectation (unlike Pocahontas, ironically, which people didn't feed me a false image at all). It's not bad by any means, and it isn't great either
I don't think It was ever overhyped, they literally invented new technology to film the Avatar. To this day there's nothing that can beat it in terms of the CGI apart from the second part of the Avatar, and the first part came out 12 years ago. You can criticize the plot as cliché, but calling Avatar anything but great is ignorant at this point
@@jayhartRIC those are not the haters. You have to remember something to hate it. The people who argue that the movie has zero cultural significance (including almost all film students) don't really remember the movie enough to hate it. They are indifferent.
i think avatar had a solid story despite it not being entirely original. but a solid story + the spectacular visuals and world building makes it a phenomenal film to me.
I feel like the concept of the story, despite being unoriginal, is somewhat an important topic, though. I liked avatar, both films, even though the story is flat. I dont *need* a complex story to be entertained, even though it helps, since to me, the bullshit didnt outweigh the fun/cool aspects, but there were a lot of "why didnt they just do X" in the avatar movie this year, which is a sign of poorly thought out scenes, but almost every movie has it, even the fabled LOTR movies.
This is ironic. When the original movie was actually showing, all I heard were good things. This is how I know the "hate" trend is not real. At the time, I had no awareness of the movie until everyone told me how amazing it was, and I finally went to see it in week 3. I was blown away and spread the word to my friends. I saw it in IMAX for a second time a week later and it remains the only movie I've seen more than once in theaters. Years go by and now all you hear is the hate on the internet. But in the real world, people who don't frequently comment on social media still mostly have fond memories of the first film. I was talking to coworkers about the sequel and we're going to see it in IMAX opening weekend.
I had the exact same experience with the film. I think it’s also worth noting that the same thing happened with The Force Awakens. When it came out, pretty much everyone was over the moon and gushing about it. Then the bandwagon hate train got rolling and the hot take became “it’s just New Hope all over again”. Goes to show how shallow and cynical internet culture can be
I remember a lot of people loving it but also plenty of people hating it. I remember coming out of the theater thinking it was awesome and my buddy said it’s basically Pocahontas in space. Once he said that the movie was ruined for me.
@Tal @ajc 123 have y’all seen the second one yet? I’m in same boat as you for the first one, I saw it at least three times in theaters. Just got back from seeing the second one and thought it was equally as fantastic and hope to get the chance to see it again before it leaves theaters
I think the only problem with Avatar is the fact that most of its depth was cut in the final version. I'm not sure how, but my father has a version of the movie that has a ton of deleted scenes, even more than the extended cut, and I was completely blown away by its storytelling. From what I've heard and seen of the final version(I've never watched it), it feels stupid by comparison, so I can understand if not everyone likes it. But the version that I saw is within my top 5 favorite movies of all time.
Part of the problem is that movies try to meet a certain time limit. It's simply not possible to explore every character in depth while also making a satisfactory main story.
"Unobtanium" has been a physicist & engineer inside joke since the 1950's. It's use in this film was both clever and warranted. The scientific community, for how often we get stereotyped as white lab coat robots, do actually have a sense of humor from time to time. Look up the term's history.
Hamlet was actually based off the original Norse story about a Scandinavian king that gets killed by his brother. Robbert Eggers wanted to tell the story Shakespeare based Hamlet off of.
It’s the ultimate revenge story. There are a million ways to tell that story, so people did it and did it really well. The issue is Dances With Wolves isn’t that great of a story to begin with.
I think most people dont hate the movie, i think they think its mediocre, but they hate the fact that it is the highest grossing film oat, and that alot of people love it
A true test of a movie is how does it standup to multiple viewings. Movies that do that I love are: 1. Grand Prix 2. Manchurian Candidate (black and white version) 3. The Good, The Bad and The Ugly 4. The Last Starfighter 5. The Right Stuff 6. Die Hard 7. Conspiracy Theory Why these and other favorites of mine? They hit the right note. Grand Prix is the best racing movie despite its so-so storyline. TGTBTU is always a trill and I try to remember all the catch lines. It is my favorite western of all time. The Last Starfighter is a favorite for multiple reasons, story and the graphics that was making its way into movies. Each of these movies just captures my soul. The director and actors all jelled, it all worked despites some of the goofs. Would Avatar do that to me? No. I am not interested in Dances With Wolves in space. And it's too long. Now, if Cameron did a sequel to Alita: Battle Angel, a movie he was involved in. I would have watched it, maybe twice at the theater. That movie was exciting, the story rather good and the characters absolutely blew me away. Alita was the girl who could kick ass despite only being a head on a mechanical body.
walked into theater without any knowledge as well, and thought it was overall pretty boring, and overly dramatic at times. i hate when every word out of a characters mouth has to be some podium speech, acting if every word they say is the most important thing in the universe. i think the first scenes managed to show some realistic social behaviour in a really immersive way, but the rest of the movie just shits on it. it started off good, and went downhill really fast
If you get the chance you need to see the sequel, seen it twice (so far) on the biggest IMAX screen in the UK in 3D and it's absolutely gorgeous and seamless, the 3D is brilliant. After the second one, at end of the film, I asked someone who was sitting beside me what they thought, they said that it was the most immersive experience that they had ever had. I also saw it on a Cineworld SuperScreen in 3D and it looked brilliant on that screen as well. Now, I have no idea if HFR (high frame rate) was being used in either case, what I can say is that if it was, I didn't notice it. So my advice, if you want to see the sequel, then get down to the biggest screen that you can find and watch it in 3D, I didn't get any headaches watching it in 3D, unlike when a film has been posted to 3D - I have occasionally suffered a headache at the back of the head.
@@carlosmarx2380 exactly! its one of those movies that in order to enjoy it I have to shut my brain off. they didn't develop the characters at all and everything felt like it was happening because the story needed it to happen and not because the characters were making choices.
As an artist and creator of imaginary worlds myself, Avatar hit straight up my alley. It swept me off my feet in awe of the immense, flourishing avalanche of creative spirit that hit my eye and my heart. I would obsessively pay extra attention to the fauna of Pandora and imagine what their evolutionary tree of life might look like, and what it is that keeps the world together and makes it feel like one consistent place in nature. And I just think that they did a phenomenal job building the world. I really enjoyed Grace's character, even though she was a bit flat and goofy, but her deep fascination for the planet and its neural network and how her character offers the viewers an alternative view of Na'vi spirituality and how it is based on real and existing mechanisms that are unique to the planet, and how she says "I need to take samples" while on the edge of dying just made her incredibly sympathetic, because I can relate. Pandora is a dangerous paradise with wonders beyond imagination, nature just doing its thing, never asking whether humans like it or not. I fell in love with the artistic spirit and imaginary nature of Pandora and how all things are deeply, even spiritually connected in that place, and I'll forever love the creature designs that they made for it. Always made me feel like the people who worked on it where living my dream.
The thing is, there is been so much cut out from the final version of film (even extended one) practically all characters that you call “blank” have an underlying motives that just been missed (apart maybe from quoritch). Even the sleezy corporate guy. It’s all in the deleted scenes
This isn't directed at you, but why do amateur film fans have the mindset that "motives explained = good character = good story"? A lot more has to go into a character than just motives to assert them as a solid character, just as motives aren't required for good characterisation in the first place.
@@maryray8120 How so? Why are motives essential? Why can't ambiguity or other characteristics which do not establish motives, make a character interesting and provoking?
@@Wackaz Motives give mrke depth to a character. It goes beyond them just doing something because they're evil or they're good. An ambigous character can work but they need to be interesting in their presentation and/or behavior. Their exact motives are something you can ponder over. If a character doesn't seem to have much of a reason behind their actions and aren't particularly entertaining already, they feel flat and not real.
@@Wackaz Lay off, brother. She clearly meant "motives plus many other character details". There were a ton of cut scenes and plots around the secondary characters that if left included could have helped the movie feel a lot more character-driven and emotional.
I think it felt like spectacle over story and it makes sense it was so popular because the story is tried and true but everyone in the movie felt extremely one dimensional. I think a lot of people were expecting a good balance between visual and mental storytelling but it felt too heavy on the visual aspects
Exactly this. If it wasn't such a pretty movie no one would look twice at it. I watched the second one recently hoping the plot would be better (especially for a 3 hour movie) but (not wanting to spoil) it didn't feel like anything original and I didn't really like almost any of the characters. One dimensional is a good way to describe them. The movie was 3 hours long but I felt like nothing even happened in it.
Exactly, I just don't like those movies which are just for effect and it's exactly the case for Avatar. I am pretty experienced sci-fi and fantasy viewer and reader and I just don't see anything interesting in this movie. Even some episodes of StarGate or StarTrek could make similar story in much better way, even without fancy CGI which doesn't look that good anymore after 13 years.
I have to disagree. I feel like what you said is exactly the problem of the sequel, but the original film had a great story and took time to introduce characters and make you care about them. Something Avatar 2 didnt do
from what I've heard and seen a lot of scenes were cut out to lower the films run time and I think that could have been part of the issue, I say part of because there's likely other reasons but some of the deleted scenes and cut content would have boosted the story and characters far more
The movie might have "issues" I can see and agree with that -- but despite that I still adore this movie so much! Like the feeling I got as a kid watching this has never been replicated. It was such wonder and just feelings of awe when I sat down to watch this in cinemas for the first time, it was truly magical and I don't even remember how many times I got to re-watch it while it was airing at the cinema cause I just wanted to FEEL what the movie made me feel again, haha.. 😂
Great essay. I like Avatar a lot, not because of the story lines, but because of the craftsmanship and the world that’s been created. Looking forward to nr.3 and wonder how Kari’s character will evolve.
I think my reason for “hating” this film was the fact I had to watch it as a kid and sat around bored as fuck for hours. I’ve rewatched it just once since I was a kid and that was the other day, and it was good. Did not deserve my years of disrespect 😂
Even middle school me in 2009 was able to recognize and kinda roll my eyes at some of its flaws. Even then I was able to notice the “unobtanium” and the cartoony-level of villainy in the first watching. But even in light of that, Cameron and his team were able to make me feel a very real sense of loss (and a weird kind of fomo?) when the movie ended and I walked out of the theater. That kind of connection is incredibly rare, at least for me.
I was the same way. I remember being a kid and making the Ferngully comparison because I had just seen Ferngully in school. Pochohontas was another common comparison. Watching it years later I thought it was pretty good, and the comparisons to Ferngully, Pochohontas, or Dances with Wolves felt very shallow. It kept my attention to the end and I was invested enough in the characters and world to give a damn when one died or feel tension when someone was in danger. The movie works, it does it's job. It entertains.
Not sure why "unobtanium" gets criticised so much. It's a term that's been used in engineering long before Avatar was a twinkle in James Cameron's eye.
@@hetmankp because it’s the main macguffin in a high profile movie that otherwise put a LOT of effort into the backstory, lore, and naming of everything in the world.
@@hetmankp So true. Also the people who laugh at Unobtanium are the same people who think the fantasy element Adamantium is awesome (I guess they don't know that adamant is a word). ALSO also, no matter how stupid an element sounds, nothing will be dumber sounding than Americium, Californium, and Einsteinium, which are all real elements on our periodic table. People have been naming elements dumb things since we first discovered elements lmao.
I just wanted to point this out. Unobtanium is an accurate scientific word used to describe a material which near impossible to achieve. It's a catch-all phase used for the material.
If the script writers came up with Unobtanium as a name, why could not the scientists of the mining company of Pandora come up with such name? Scientists give dumb names to lots of things, just look at the dinosaurs!
I grow up in Nigeria with a lot of passed down rich African cultures. One of which is the elders telling stories with the kids gathered around under the night sky. Some details of these stories can change from region to region. But at the end of each story, elder telling the story ask everyone what they think the moral of the story is. These stories can be told in form of jokes even but they often have a lesson hidden behind the plot. I am sure other cultures around the world have something similar. Could be why it was popular outside USA. Some movies are only there to entertain but I believe there is something deeper hidden in this one. You said it yourself the plants are so detailed. So dig deeper, Avatar has so many things to say.
I loved the movie when it came out, but then I saw Princess Mononoke and realized they seemed very familiar except the characters were better fleshed out and the two sides are both explored so you don't find yourself picking a side til the end. And even then in the end you see some characters are only doing what they think is best for their people expect for the MC trying to make peace between both.
Avatar is awesome! So many people complain about what the movie is, but Cameron accomplished everything he was trying to accomplish with it. Everything he wanted me to feel in every moment he made me feel. It doesn't matter if the story is simple or derivative. Cameron is better at telling any story through the medium of film than most others. I also think the story is underappreciated. Yes the actual plot is very simple and has been done before, but I think that benefited the movie because it gave us a very smooth and easy path into the world of Pandora - and the world of Pandora, the story of the world and its people is extremely unique and completely engrossing. Edit: Just saw The Way of Water and was massively disappointed. It's not that the story was simple or anything but the villains didn't have strong motivations and so felt like a weak threat. The big emotional moments at the end didn't work at all because of how little set up there was for them. It really surprised me. Cameron usually is so tight with his build ups and so on to make me feel really engaged with what's going on in the story but at the end of this movie I really wasn't caring. I'd give the first movie a 9.5/10 and the second a 6/10.
Most blockbusters have worse plots, worse characters, worse execution, etc... Simplicity is ok, in fact it's probably for the best if you're aiming to make a universally understandable movie. I would say nearly all of Cameron's movies are pretty simple and straight forward plots. He just executes them very well, and often pushes the envelope in other film making aspects. Epic visuals, scale, action, set design (watch behind the scenes for Titanic, it's incredible, how many film makers can come close to Titanic's production?), etc..
Sorry to disagree, but I felt exactly the opposite. I didn't care for it. I didn't care about the characters and found them forgettable, instead. The story is something I already saw many times. I didn't feel engaged with the story at all. The cgi is the only outstanding thing about the movie.
I have to disagree not so much because the problems mentioned in the video but rather one simple fact of the plot where in James Cameron not only loses me but loses me in such a way that Not only was I unable to finish the movie but I actually went on the Internet to find fanfiction of humanity coming back to kill the blue cat people my favorite is crossovers with Warhammer 40,000 where the space marines do it with maximum 40,000 over kill, now obviously I am not saying that you are necessarily wrong and enjoying the movie simply that James Cameron didn’t do what he said out to do because not only did I Disagree with his position in this movie but I am so unable to see the other side that I have come to out and out hate the so called good guys. The first point requires a little bit of background to fully understand namely that I am an old-school Star Wars and Star Trek fan so simplistic characters and recycled plots and even whole scenes do not bother me as long as you do something interesting with them. The Star Wars ending to the original movie includes Word for Word re-creations of the climax of the Dam busters, The Star Trek episode Balance of terror is simply cutting and pasting an existing destroyer movie into space and adding a slight twist to the ending, neither of these things bother me so Avatar’s plot being a recycling of dances with wolves with elements of Disney’s Pocahontas thrown in doesn’t really bother me all that much, what dose bother me is the fact that the Nav’i or however you spell it are two stupid to live, there so called goddess is not worthy to be worshiped, and that Either the space goddess or Jake himself is guilty of the attempted genocide of the human race. The part where the plot really started to lose me was when generic Native American princess stereotypes but I am now a blue cat person saved Jake from the cats, Despite how the movie plays it for a Stone Age people not only was that the Best option she had but it was the only option she could not allow A pack of dangerous alpha predators to get a taste for her species especially not in the area immediately around her home, The fact that she gets upset at Jake for being in that situation and is trying to tell him that they didn’t need to die, not only permanently puts her in the position of spoiled brat that doesn’t deserve to live in a jungle for me but also makes me completely disregard her and her family as leaders of people who live in a jungle because they’re derelict in their duty as leaders. Then she compounds her error by not forcing Jake to drag those corpses back to her home so that her tribe can eat them and survive, Further proving that she has no business being a leader because she is incredibly wasteful and neglectful when it comes to the survival of her people. Please note I have not said the characters name because I don’t know it I can’t remember it she’s completely forgettable except for the parts that made me want to punch her face in. But of course this is all the will of their goddess so I shouldn’t blame them which leads into point 2, namely That the goddess creature Is not worthy to be worshiped. I believe that if you are going to claim divine status you need to be worthy of that status and any being that forces her Followers to reject anything that would make their lives easier and remain in the most primitive state and not only thank her for that but also thank her when she culls their numbers because she thinks there are too many of them is unworthy of being called a goddess. At best what I think you to call such an entity is just that a space entity of immense power if you want to get supernatural the word demon comes to mind. And last but not least Jake Sully’s actions are the actions of a villain because unless the humans come back like we see they do in the way of water trailer they will be doomed to extinction. The movie keeps hammering home that the military and the big corporation that are on the planet are greedy, only to turn around and undermine this very idea by stating that humanity is on the verge of extinction because of the collapse of the environment on the planet earth,. Now leaving a side climate change because that’s a can of worms that no one actually wants to get involved in when talking about whether or not a movie is good, no crime the humans commit in any of the parts of the movie that I actually watched justify The extermination of the human race, and I know nothing the humans did in any of the parts that I didn’t watch justify genocide because you can’t justify genocide. These actions would put Jake Sully roughly in the same position as Emperor Palpatine and Grand Moff Tarkin from Star Wars or the Borg from Star Trek unless you argue that Jake and the rest of the Avatar pilots where brainwashed by the so-called goddess, which would then make them pawns and victims of the true villain of the picture, the living planet. So that is my over Analyzed reason for considering this movie to be forgettable in places that I like and downright evil in the places I hate.
And it kinda delivers honestly, I really liked it, and the criticism I've seen is plain hateful, those who hate this movie wanted it to fail as soon as it was announced
Personally I wouldn’t say hate since the most talked about thing of avatar was how amazing the cgi and visual affects were. But I think the main issue was that it just had a forgettable plot. For me personally when I first watched avatar I wasnt too interested in the story but I did enjoy the worldbuilding, cgi, and how it pretty much immersed u into the world of pandora
The simple plot is from what i see is that anyone can understand the film. It's a film created for the masses/normies who just want to see a film & have a good time. It doesn't need to be complicated to be enjoyable. Despite all the special effects & large budget its a very grounded film with things lots of people can relate to. It's a romantic film not in the form of actual romance per say but in the terms of escapism.
@@izumolee6714 I mean nobody is asking for it to be complicated lol. It just that the plot for the first movie just wasn’t memorable. I mean for anyone who saw the first movie u were to ask them to name the 5 characters from that movie you think they’ll be able too? Other than that for me I still enjoyed the movie but I felt like the plot could’ve been a lot better for a movie of that scale. Not to mention if u actually look at the extended cut they cut a LOT of stuff that should’ve been in the Final Cut that would’ve made me like the plot honestly
@@Nightlizard1564 I mean the way people especially the haters talk about the plot they seem to overlook the simplicity of it. All of James Cameron's films have a simple plot from Terminator, to Aliens to T2 to True Lies to Titanic. All of these aren't overly complicated if you look at them bare bones. That is what Cameron is good at, taking these simple ideas & creating a larger than life spectacle. I understand why some don't like the plot but are you really there watching Avatar for the plot? Or are you watching it for the grandeur of it all. I felt many who saw it didn't really care for the plot as it wasn't the main selling point of the film. It's there as a compliment for the overall again spectacle. With Way of Water than the plot will be more important as you need something for film goers to latch onto & from what i hear the family aspect & characters are more fleshed out. Avatar was to introduce the idea of Pandora, Way of Water is there to keep people invested.
@@izumolee6714 well that’s the thing tho cause u can say the same for most mcu movies now. The modern audience no longer cares for an actual good story as long as it’s nonstop action, quips, and cameos your good to go. In Avatars case it’s main selling was ofc the vfx but it’s like what he said in the video. The box office doesn’t determine the quality of a movie. Avatar had great vfx for its time but just lacked a good plot. I mean sure James Cameron’s plot have always been simple but compared to terminator and alien at least they had plots that were memorable ESPECIALLY terminator 2 lol. I am interested to see way of water but I don’t think it’s gonna do as well as cameron wants it to be.
I like what you pointed out about Jake working for the Colonel. Anyone who thinks it is too "convenient" likely did not serve in the Army or Marines or Military in general. I served 7 years, deployed twice as a Seargent to a war zone, and later went back multiple times as a DOD contractor. I did all this from 18 to 31. It is all you know and I am only conflicted now in my late thirties thinking about the overall role we all played. Plus I only joined because I needed to make my way through the world and it seemed like a career starting option which it was. I was born and raised in city and I do not come from a military family. Sometimes you simply go down a path and you know what you know when you know it. I am overall glad I served but not exactly proud at the same time. Jake's motivations and personal conflicts of being pulled between two worlds makes perfect sense to me. The sense of honor and giving your word and the desperate need to keep it. He sealed his fate when he mated with a native which he knew was basically getting married. As a man who was married for over a decade, I get why he made the choice be it wrong or right.
I remember when Avatar came out in 2009, it had a 9.0 rating on IMDB, and it stayed like that until 2012 (I constantly checked). Then, all of a sudden, three years after the movie came out, a lot of people started voting down Avatar until it reached 7.8. That’s when I knew this was a smear campaign done by competing franchises, because they’re scared of Avatar
I have been watching the smear campaign the last month and it is pukeworthy. Watched this movie last night and it's pretty good......shut up marvel tards!
I think it comes down to this: In all of the properties that spawn "Expanded Universes", there is the story that's being told by the movie, but there's a second layer of stories happening in the background, or just offscreen. This glimpse of more stories waiting to be told excites the imagination, and leaves people with an invitation to participate, if only in their own imaginations. Avatar doesn't have that. The story of Jake Sully IS the story of Pandora. You can't really tell another story about the Omatikaya, because there's nothing to share other than what we've already seen through Jake's eyes. That leaves other storytellers with no room to participate. No side novels. No Tabletop RPGs. No card game. Even the themes of the movie make it feel like entering into that world as a fan is possibly appropriation. I think that, over time, this "look-but-don't-touch" feeling has soured people on Avatar.
Agree. there is 0 lore which leaves us feeling like if you took out the conflict (colonization) we would be left with happy aliens in perfect balance with their world, which further feeds into the "Ecological Indian" trope which can be harmful as well
@@francescacosta259You go on that whole speech about imagination, yet I am surprised you still can’t see the potential for expansion with Avatar. There is a decent amount of lore if you bother to read the wikias and some of the written material. There are even different types of Navi being introduced with different cultures and animals. How is that not expansion? Did you even watch the sequel or read about the upcoming films?
@@garlandrose9948 it's ok to not like something. It's also ok to like something that other people criticize. I watched both movies and read a great deal on the valid issues found within. About to read the book "Ecological Indian: Myth and History" so I can better explore why I don't enjoy Avatar but I could read the Silmarillion cover to cover and entire sci Fi and fantasy worlds with copious amounts of attached material. James Cameron had 5+ hours of film to get me interested, and has yet to do so. It is devoid of anthropology and history. I will no longer consume Avatar content.
See someone above claimed I must not have seen the movie. You claim I must have mindlessly consumed content. Not only did I watch both, but I did an entire science project in a grad level course about Pandora's ecology. *Still* think the people of Pandora are "Ecological Indians" and there are valid criticisms about how vague and non-existent their anthropology is
In avatar 1, we watched it when we were a kid and we all astonished and amazed about the wonders we see for the first time. Now in avatar 2, we are watching it as an adult. so i think why the 2nd movie is all about family. the theme both movies corresponds to our age bracket.
@@mmm-mmm as long as it doesn't go the way of EP 7 , 8 and 9. After all Avatar and StarWars are now property of the Mouse And i did enjoy the first and second Avatar Movies, and also Star Wars Episode 1-6 (and the TV Shows like Clone Wars, Bad Batch, Mandalorian etc) So here is hoping, if the Mouse Suits keep their "ideas" away from the Creators.
It’s hated because it’s made the most money in the box office. People always need something to hate. I’m so excited to see this next movie. Especially as an artist. The world building is incredible.
@@muhammadnajmimurindo9289 mcu is falling apart, just saw the new movie. So incredible. Not perfect but way better than any mcu movie I’ve watched since end game. Also incredible designs
Avatar was my first 3D film and it was surreal. I was somewhere in the middle of 10 and 11 back then, and it was just an amazing experience. Later I bought a DVD of it and I've lost count how many times I've watched the movie since. And mind you it was a CRT TV, yeah I enjoyed the thing in that ancient piece of tech. It still seems fresh to me no matter how many times I watch it. Every time I watch it I pick up tiny new details. That's the result of effort of humungous craftsmanship put into this movie. I heard criticisms of this movie only a few years back when I got hooked to TH-cam. And those criticisms didn't make any sense at all. For example, the white saviour card didn't make any sense to me, probably because I never got that feeling (and probably cause I was 11 and Indian and i just viewed it as it is, a simple story, unadulterated by the politics). And I was most surprised by the comments making it as a betrayal to the human species. I mean i get it, humans are losing, but what for? In my simple understanding, Jake showed more humanity than the humans themselves, showing empathy for the culture whose fate may end up similarly to humans on earth due to their self-destructive path. Humans may face threat of endangerment due to their dependency on Unobtanium, but that doesn't warrant the destruction of other's home. If the Na'vi can move to other places, so can the humans mine it on other parts of the planet. No matter how much they mine, they'll be back for more. Once it's over under the big tree, another home will be their next target. And adding this to the context, Jake's dialogue -"They can't take whatever they want" feels more powerful. I think the intent here is to increase love for Earth by showing people what they've been missing out on if they don't act now, through Pandora. Most tend to forget this main moral. It is, in fact, for the humanity.
The white savior criticism in particular doesn't make sense to me because the whole movie is about everyone coming together and getting rid of the thread in cooperation. Jake didn't really do shit except unite everyone and then they fought for themselves and their world. Also in the end he actually throws away his human heritage and completely adopts the navi way. Like the whole movie is about how the humans are wrong and the navi are right. In the end he's not a white human anymore. He's just as much navi as everyone else. Also I don't get how any of this is a betrayal to humans either. In my eyes the humans in avatar are the destructive ones irl who doesn't care about any form of life and only money. Whereas the navi are the humans of this world who wants to protect it. Also I completely agree with you that the point of the movie is to show that there's more to this earth than just death and destruction. There are so many things to love and we need to fight for them
the "sleezy evil corporate suit" guy actually shows signs of giving a damn, just being pressured into the wrong thing by investers who hold control of the fate of the company and what it must do. otherwise he never would have gave Jake and Dr. Grace one last chance to persuade the tribe to move out after the Colonel Miles was on his way to blow up the tree.
Also in the one of Avatar deleted scenes when Quaritch recruiting mineworkers to his army. The corporate guy don't agree. It seems he cares about his employees too. Not totally evil.
The hate is from a small vocal group in certain bubbles of the internet. Mostly fandoms of other franchises who have always seen Avatar as a threat. People who actually think Avatar's success was a one time thing are in for a rude awakening in a week.
I don’t hate this movie because it threatens Star Wars or Star Trek I hate this movie because Jake Sully is a genocidal maniac, or he’s the stooge of an alien entity pretending to be a goddess who is a genocidal maniac, I think Cameron was on a destroy the human race for pollution kick when he wrote this so he forgot that if he wants to make his big bad capitalist villains then he can’t make the fight a matter of human survival, in so doing Jake Sully becomes a monster on par with the Emperor from Star Wars or the Borg from Star Trek, his only saving grace is that he could probably adequately argue that he was being manipulated by a space entity that was posing as a deity. Hopefully now that he’s a father in way of water he’ll find someway to realize that his space goddess is a monster.
Actually...(presses glasses firmly against nose) The Northman is not based on Hamlet. Hamlet is based on the story of The Northman. Shakespeare was inspired to write Hamlet based on the Scandanavian story of Amleth, the son of a King who was murdered and dethroned by his brother. All Shakespeare did was switch the H to the beginning of his characters name.
Honestly, as someone who's seen the film probably 20 times, I think it ranges from "mediocre" to "masterpiece", depending on what categories you look at. I personally love this film, and its definitely in my top 5. The avatar hate bandwagon got old in 2011. Its only worsened over time, and I've had the same experience when I ask people IRL what they disliked about it, and they admit to me they've never seen it. The story is simple and full of tropes, but they happen to be tropes that I love and connect with. The characters are cut down to the bare minimum of "does this action serve the plot?" and if not, its left out. This bothers some people and I FULLY UNDERSTAND WHY, its just not really a problem for the movie. The movie is a masterful example of "trimming the fat" and getting people used to the world while the plot unfolds around them. The movie also handles setups and payoffs expertly. Every single animal or feature of the environment is explained to you so subtly, but just showing you through action, and then all those factors come into play in the third act in pretty awesome ways. I still love the final battle sequence. Also when people say that the visuals are a crutch and the movie is somehow bad because of it, I must remind them that Star Wars and Indiana Jones are carbon copies of movies that came before, but we love them so much because of the unique visual language, settings, and adventure that they introduce. Also big part of the hate back when it came out had to do with the fact that movie is a direct commentary on the US and other western powers in the middle east, as well as late stage capitalist greed, which many centrists and right-wingers just dismissed and completely missed the point. Saying things like "its anti-military" even though the soldiers were PMCs, etc.
I still remember when my parents picked me up to watch the film. The reason they gave me was its 3D, it looks awsome and you love sci fi so lets watch it. I was 13 back then and absolutely stunned by the visuals. As were my parents btw :D
@@lancetruong4957 That doesn't contradict his point. His point is that the Northman, the Lion King and even Hamlet are all unoriginal. If anything, that strengthens the argument being made in this video - just because the plot is being recycled doesn't make it a bad story.
I'm glad somebody gave this point of view, because when Avatar came out in my high school years, there wasn't a single person that didn't love it. Everyone I knew saw it 2-3 times. Since the announcement of Avatar 2, I'm seeing nothing but hate; It's totally disingenuous.
I mean, if you had asked me after the first time I saw it I would have said the same thing. We saw it in 3d opening weekend and I was blown away. I couldn’t understand why some people in my group weren’t impressed by it. I went back to see it a second time in a regular theater and I was much less excited. Without the overwhelming visual spectacle the movie is rather mediocre (imo) in the acting and writing department.
I have never seen the first Avatar, but I went to see the second film a few days ago with my family, and it made me want to watch the first one. I think that is definitely a positive.
Thing is, I love Avatar. It's one of my favourite films, but even I acknowledge its flaws. But its strength isn't plot or characters, it's Pandora. It was the first time we'd ever felt like we were on an alien planet.
An alien planet whose fauna is exactly Earth's with the same blue sky and green foliage and who animals are essentially blue spliced up versions of animals that exist on Earth with literal direct human analogs for no evolutionary reason. Hell they even hired the dude who is notorious for making truly alien worlds as a concept artist only for him to be laid off because his world looked way too alien and Cameron wanted that Earth familiarity because Cameron likes having his cake and eating it too. In my opinion if you want to truly be transported to another alien world broaden your sense of entertainment fiction because that has happened multiple times in entertainment which is why it's sad that the lowest hanging fruit once again is the most rewarded.
So you mever played games, engaged in sci fi and fantasy concepts before? Anyone I've seen bring this point up just seem so distant from genres and mediums that have done this and it also appears people lack imagination because they think it's not the same. I'll tell you now. A DnD world is 100x more immersive than whatever avatar has to offer.
@@AnywhereMiami lol imagine being stupid enough to think Marvel and Avatar are all that different. They're both popcorn movies for stupid people. The fact you can't see that puts you lower than those who just enjoy stupid fun and can see these movies are kind of stupid.
There are a lot of deleted scenes that flesh out characters like Parker, Max, Norm, Trudy, Tsu'tey and even Jake's internal conflict but they unfortunately never made the final cut because the movie would have been too long
It’s hard for me to call the story bad, just because it’s very predictable and a repeat of previous stories doesn’t make it bad. The visuals and world building are amazingly well done with a mid(c+ imho) story. I saw it 5 or 6 times back in 09 and it was purely due to the visuals I can’t lie
It's an awesome movie, the only one I have watched twice in theaters in decades. Like James Cameron said "the world is the story". (there's another great essay from like stories of old about it)
I liked it when I came out as in "holy shit that 3D thing was rad" and then forgot about it and then whole series of "why no one remembers Avatar" videos came out and the whole white savior silly arguments made it like Avatar was bad and then I was thinking "yea Avatar sucks." Then last year I bought a 110 inch TV and wanted to try out some movies so I played Avatar and wound up sitting down and finishing the whole things. Avatar is still rad and more awesome than I remembered.
My problem with the movie is how aggressively OK it is. And that seems to be the consensus when I talk about to other people I talk too. Most people don't hate it they either don't remember it or say something along the lines of, Avatar oh yeah that was OK.
I just watched the way of the water 2 days ago and 3 days ago I watched the first movie.BOTH ARE MASTERPIECES IN MY OPINION AND YOU CAN NOT CHANGE MY MIND.
I was today years old when I found out "Unobtainium," is a word the scientific community uses to describe a perfect material that solves their current problem.
This was an excellent video. I just saw Avatar 2 yesterday and thought it was a "good movie", but then I started wondering why Avatar 1 was basically *forgettable*. It came out 13 years ago, was so popular it stayed the highest grossing film for 10 years (...although is it now number 1 again?), and yet I remember seeing in theaters and then not really thinking about it ever since. I had the same thoughts around how a completely new IP could beat established franchises with massive fandoms, and I think that might be the key: I think those of us that identify with a specific culture or fandom (think 'Netizen', 'Gamer', 'Nerd/Geek', etc) automatically give those types of media unfair accolades based around comparing and contrasting either directly within the same IP or within the same genre/fandom/culture. Describing Avatar 1 as 'the Nickelback of films' I thought was perfect, but I was kind of hoping you would explore what actually happened historically with an overview (from the buildup/hype before release, what people were actually saying at the time of release, and then why it just faded away and became forgettable/hated?) instead of "I asked some friends and the ones who hated Avatar said "IDK" as to why and thus concludes my argument". Maybe you can do a follow-up video on this "History of Avatar 1: The initial hype, release, and fall over the last decade (what went wrong?)"?
I'm honestly just hoping that The Way of Water doesn't bury Puss in Boots: The Last Wish at the box office because that is a legitimate animated masterpiece.
I haven't watched it yet but I heard it was really good. I actually liked the first Puss in Boots movie (especially in spanish dub cuz the voice actor is really good) so I can't wait to watch it! Edit: I watched Puss in Boots (yes, in spanish dub) and I actually liked it more than Avatar 2. It was way more fun to watch and the choppy animation went hard asf!
@@TheSilverwing999 i watch movies for the plot and interesting characters, not to hate on avatar i'll still go and watch it but only bc it looks good who knows maybe its a lot better than the first one
I, an 18 year old, had just watched Avatar for the first time since me and my dad were planning on going to see The Way of Water when it released so I wanted to see the first one, and I ended up watching it three times. I'm also hoping to go and see The Way of Water again (and probably a third time). Avatar was the ONLY movie I have ever seen that gave me the feeling of pure ecstasy.
I am 14 and even though I did the pandora rides at animal kingdom in may I just watched avatar for the first time last month cause I heard about the sequel. That’s probably gonna be the only time I’ve ever sat through an almost 3 hour film
I honestly loved Avatar, saw it as a teenager twice and really really felt the main character and his connection with Neytiri. Can’t wait to see way with water!
That's actually kinda sad the first Avatar and second Avatar movies are basically key jingling for adults it's the movie version of "oooooooo shinyyyyy"
You just got me even more excited. The online "hate" for this movie was getting ridiculous and I feel like people were hating just because it was a trendy thing to do. James Cameron is a great filmmaker and I wasn't doubting him for a second. He was waiting until the technology became available to fulfill his dream. This man is extremely patient and doesn’t get pressured from the media or fans to hurry him along. Kudos to James Cameron and the success of this movie.
People over look the amazing way James Cameron was trying to communicate the intelligence of nature. It’s a very spiritual movie. There is even a deleted ayahuasca scene!
But yet, James spent millions to make a unique and alien soundtrack but scraped it dubbing it too unique. He somehow managed to culturally appropriate a culture that he made up. A youtuber called Sideways did a deep dive on the topic if you're interested.
That's the point. Its ironic. He's says he's trying to support cultures but yet when he wants a unique and alien soundtrack he has it scrapped. I'm not making it up. Sideways's video shows directs quotes.
Why do I hate Avatar? Easy: because it's just a shallow preachy “Man's bad, Nature's good” story. Princess Mononoke did far better job with the "Man vs. Nature" debate (The human leader taking care of the weak and the ills, nature showing stubborn intolerance and hatred, etc…). In both Avatar movies - it's all black & white: The Navi are the embodiment of pure goodness, while mankind is the absolute evil. No gray areas, no playing the Devil's Advocate, just 6 hours of glorified shallow propaganda.
I went to the theater to watch Avatar because a friend who already seen it is willing to pay an extra ticket if I want to go watch with him (for the 2nd time). went in there completely blind with no expectation whatsoever and it turned out to be one of the most beautiful film I've ever seen in my life. of course, most of it is because the visual, but I remember that I got very emotional when the Jake's friends died one by one in the battle field. I think hands down it is still very iconic to this day and one of the most groundbreaking too.
to be fair, avatar didn't NEED to be a strong film plot and character wise, because james cameron had plans on making sequels and needed to focus on introducing us to the world and the n'avi. and i think it did that perfectly!
@@kev3d personally after watching the second film twice now, its actually really nice, its more out of that cliche story trope the first one had. its got a bit more to it. there's parts of it i'd highlight that a lot of people, including myself are confused about/have issues with, but the second is genuinely better than the first. the military stuff still feels forced but its far less prevelant in the second film except for where its needed, we get to see more of the actual world of pandora itself than all that. however, it is fair that you don't want to see it. But I'd say if you really like world building, fantasy, etc, you'd enjoy the second one a lot more than the first
I don’t think people hate Avatar, they just like poking fun at the fact that it’s the highest grossing movie of all time, yet was basically forgotten by the general public as soon as it left theaters. Like, you’d think Avatar would be up there with Titanic or Jurassic Park in terms of well loved movies, yet most people couldn’t even name a single characters name.
It wasn't even hated before Endgame. The hate comes from the fact their big movie didn't beat it without a re-release. The people who struggle to get it are normally the ones who just didn't see it on the big screen... It's also the only 3d film I have ever enjoyed. The writing does feel like a first draft sometimes though, The unobtainum is funny as hell...
The writing is unique though. Transferring human consciousness to alien body is unique. Making a bond to animals to be able to control them is also unique. Human being as an alien invader is another unique part of Avatar. The writing is fine so long as it follows the template of hero's journey. I think Cameron adapt japanese style of naming things. It is similar to most manga that certain things are called for obvious reason of their purpose in the story. But let's be honest here. Only Cameron can make a good story of underdog winning against all odds.
Not really. The hate comes from the fact that it's a mediocre movie with a mediocre story we've already seen before several times and forgettable characters, and the fact that people went crazy over it just because of the fancy visuals. There are much better movies than it, and not necessarily marvel movies.
@@OfficialEdwardNewgate I don't get angry that people enjoy something I don't. I was just pointing out that people overhype it as if it were a masterpiece when it's not.
I felt the same, there was nothing good or bad except the visuals, too be honest I think the visuals might've hurt the movie as the good visuals were compared to the average plot, dialogue, characters etc and would make them stand out as more average compared to said visuals
It was ridiculous how cartoonishly evil the bad guys are for me to make the Navi good.... considering most of them work for miners... it isn’t battle of the worlds.
That's the point of why I hate the film. It made 2.7 billion dollars off of it. It's quite undeserving of the critical acclaim and box office success to that degree. After years of hearing that it's a masterpiece by everyone from the rooftops has really soured my view on this movie.
I love the film. I think it has to do with how bad humanity is made to look, and people can’t face the truth of what we are capable of and what we have done on our own world. Environmental messages can’t be ignored of course, but the experience is unmatched. And way of water keeps the trend.
Yea but the problem is that its so forced and exxagerated that its stupid. The Navi are all perfect and can co no wrong, and the Humans are (almost)all irredemably bad. If you tell someone they are all bad and offer no alternative they are going to ignore what you are trying to say.
Meh I always hates how bad they treated humans. Hell when I first saw it I thought the humans were the good guys beacuse back then I never understood corporatism and the such. So when is saw the traitor Jake Sully cutting down people that were fighting to preserve a dying earth I lost interest in the movie for a while. Till I got more context at least.
I hate when people don’t bother to look past the surface level of stories… I think a big reason people don’t understand avatar is because there are certain parts of a story that people are used to focusing on when looking for good writing, and that’s often the characters and how much complexity and nuance they have. But I think in this case that expectation about where the important parts of a story should be is distracting people from seeing what is really amazing, interesting, and worth thinking about in avatar. People rarely talk about the amazing detail in the world building, the foreshadowing, setups and payoffs, and the fascinating ideas about religion, culture, and reflections of our own history and future. So basically what I’m saying is that what avatar cares about doesn’t line up with what most of the audience cares about, causing most people to miss a lot of what makes the movie great.
The problem though is that the story goes in a way where you follow the characters and connect with them, and most of them are stereotypical with a couple of exceptions. I am tired of people saying that I don't understand something I dislike. If you saw it your way, that's fine, but I could see little to no nuance in the story. Maybe if they did something similar to Denis Villenueve's Dune, creating such a rich world with a lot of complex themes and characters that have some backstory to them then I would have enjoyed it more. There are other movies that I think do a better job than this movie ever could like Hayao Miyazaki's Princess Mononoke, which gives more time to see both sides of the conflict and why they are doing what they are doing.
@@captainhowlerwilson508 its fine to not like it! Most people just have different priorities when judging if a work is good or not! Just keep in mind that simplicity in one area that you usually prioritize does not make bad or worse than other works :)
I think so many people did incredible jobs - particularly the art team , but script and character wise - arguably the most important, that didn’t happen. I’m actually excited for the sequel, it’s giving me major Jupiter’s ascending vibes which I adored / b movie with an obscenely high budget and just the most hilarious things to shove detail into!!
The art department didnt even get full credit for working on this film they were just credited as "international crew" way to go USA fucking over New Zealand crew
it's generic anti human unrealistic hollywood preaching. obviously you would just release a neuro toxin from orbit and wipe out the primitives. you wouldn't engage them in war at all
@@takumi-san116 It's a very subjective tbh. One does like the movie, another doesn't. The avatar universe just never clicked with me for quite some reasons. Like, the sudden change from unobtanium to the magical whale juice. Yes I get that the idea of becoming immortal is a thing in human history, but what exactly helps you not aging anymore, if you die of suffocation anyway? It felt for me, that Cameron just thought _Humans don't seem evil enough...how can I change that?_ At least in the first movie they were not so flat/blank characters. But now they became walking clichés, which we see many through the whole movie. Spider for example, seemed to me as if someone just took Mowgli or Tarzan into the Avatar universe. Like, nothing new or interessting. But that's only my opinion on it, if you liked the movie, than It's okay.
Love this nuanced take! Totally agree. Personally, I don't think a film has to be The Most Incredible Cinematic Experience to still be enjoyable. A movie can be Fine, and.. that's okay. I can still enjoy it, lol. We live in a time where there's so much media to choose from, story-telling has lost a bit of its wonder. We sort of take it for granted. Regardless of its issues, I still think the visuals of Avatar are enough to warrant appreciation. I'm looking forward to the Way of Water!
What surprises me is that many relevant plot, character and worldbuilding elements were cut from theatrical release. For example: - Earth was straining for resources, so it somewhat justified the military's aggressive policies on Pandora. It's still over-the-top, comic book villainy but at least there's some explanation there. - Dr. Grace Augustine's school was attacked and many of her students were killed, among them Neytiri's little sister, which gives her a more personal grudge against humans rather than just a generalized hatred for them destroying the environment. That scene where Grace told Jake of the tragedy is my favorite. - Tsu'tey was given a more fitting warrior's end than what he got in the theatrical version, completing his character arc.
Also, James spent millions to make a unique and alien soundtrack but scraped it dubbing it too unique. He somehow managed to culturally appropriate a culture that he made up. A youtuber called Sideways did a deep dive on the topic if you're interested.
Honestly kinda understand why a lot of it was scrapped in favor of quicker moments in the film we still hear about the school and what happened we see photos we still learn about the earth being a shot hole it probably would have weighed down the film
I loved avatar since the first time I saw it when it came out in 09. Still my absolute favourite. I just got home from watching Avatar The way of water, and it was absolutely gorgeous and I loved it too. Great sequal to the first Avatar, and I'll keep supporting any upcoming Avatar movies. The world are just so great. The depth of it, the creature. You really do wish this was our reality instead, to live in a world of Pandora like them. Love to be able to be alive to see the story of our beloved Pandora come to life in future year releases! (Ps. I really enjoy Jake sully as a main character. He's very fitting and he's very likeable in personality, both caring and hardcore not backing down badass) I also just got myself some nice books on Avatar, that describes the world in depth and shows it off. I never read or saw these before now(2022) and it opened my eyes even more to the depth and the WHOLE world of Avatar/Pandora. Which just makes movies get so much better, because they let you see all the stuff in 'action and moving' while you know, behind the screen there's so much more to this world hidden away, waiting to be discovered! I really love and appreciate that James C. Makes EVERYTHING with passion and true(RAD) Quality. It really shows, specially in Avatar 2 now that new technology finally is available to him.
One thing I find funny is some people saying “no one cares about Avatar 2, the first one came out forever ago” but people were excited for the 2018 Halloween, the new icarly show, Indiana Jones 4 and 5, Matrix 4, Blade Runner 2049…
I actually loved the new avatar movie, jeez I loved all the water stuff, it was so beautiful. And I know people may not watch it for the story, I didn't at first but I started liking it and falling in love with a lot of characters, I even cried in the cinema cuz I got emotion because of the alien whale haha
I love all the undertone plot themes in Avatar personally. Touches on mass industrialization, capitalism, colonialism, imperialism, corporatism, the military-industrial complex, global warming, etc etc. Tons of other films do this Hero's Journey type story but very few sprinkle in many real factors that we are treading into as a society today. So there is a ton of depth if you are willing to immerse yourself in the world and relate it to how we are advancing here in modern times. I highly recommend watching the extended addition as well as the deleted scenes that fill many gaps or explain more of the story. And for me, all I want from a movie theater experience is to be visually entertained. If I wanted the best story ever, I'd read a book. If I want to see something cool, I'd watch something like Avatar or Mad Max Fury Road which also got story hate. James Cameron scratches that "sit back in your seat with a bucket of popcorn and be entertained" itch that most of us like.
The difference between Fury Road and Avatar, is that the former had a simple story, but narratively it made a lot of sense and the heroes and villains all had understandable motivations and the action was used for visual storytelling, something that was never considered before and even in real life wars, there is usually not much time for talking as enemies usually don't have long-winded conversations with one another. The latter felt so by the books and unoriginal with how the story unfolded. Fury Road is actually getting more love than ever and for good reason because audiences are seeing beyond just the action being amazing, and understanding the emotional undertones of it. Avatar on the other hand, while having neat world-building just doesn't hit that same note because most of the characters were just one-note.
I’m watching a movie to relax and have fun. I don’t want to see a three hour fault about how “bad” capitalism is or how “good” Biden is. I’m not trying to watch a global warming add for 3 hours. Your claim is just so bad
It's simple really: we live in a time where artistry is frowned upon - mainly the US (which I've stated has no real taste anymore for what qualifies as a good picture). It's also narcissism and believing the film is solely attacking them on a real level. When I hear people say Avatar (2009) or Avatar: The Way of Water (2022) are bad, I just laugh. Honestly, and to be frank, they wouldn't know cinema if it bit them in the ass. I've actually believed that it's ok to not like the film, but for people saying it has no value, meaning and did nothing for cinema are morons and completely illiterate when talking about the cinematic medium. Avatar hate is just hipster syndrome. James Cameron is one of the best directors of all time for a reason.
I feel like there’s a stronger feeling of indifference towards it beyond its status as a visual spectacle, and it’s just easy to pick on because of that Also, James Cameron stating he shared an 800-page analysis of Avatar 1’s story with the writers of 2 to “crack the code” of why the first worked so well is…laughable. It’s like eating the best food you’ve had in your life, and spending a decade trying to figure out why the utensils made it taste so good.
People hate Avatar because it's different. The were no comics going back years in order to build a following. Cameron came out with a movie out of the blue that had no superhero, no human with a cape having the ability to fly around on his own & punching holes in anything his fists collide with. Lastly: People take Cameron's movies to seriously, forgetting that they are there to entertain. They are most to be pitied.
People shit on avatar for being similar to fern gully, Pochahantas, and dances with wolves, but never shit on those movies for being similar to each other.
I really do think it's that last point. It's not so much that people hate it (at least initially), it's more of a reaction to what they see as a subpar movie being overblown and getting much more praise than it deserves. When I watched it for the first time, my reaction was "That's it? That's what all the hype was about?" I certainly liked it and still have fond memories of it (granted I'm extremely easy to please when it comes to media). But, seeing as people were touting it as the greatest movie of all time, it fell far below my expectations. It's like when you hear a new popular song, and you think it's alright. But they it explodes in popularity, and you start hearing it everywhere you go. It was fine the first time you heard it, but eventually you just get annoyed due to overexposure.
When I saw the original I thought "nice spectacle". But that was it. I was working in 3d animation and motion capture at the time, so I knew some of the people at WETA who worked on the film. Even some of them told (warned) me the story was a little "cheesy" (their word). But then I started hearing about how people were depressed that Pandora wasn't real and all that nonsense. And I kept thinking did we see the same movie? Because as a film, not a CGI tech demo, it was as bland as they come. Sam Worthington is NOT a good actor. But people were carrying on like the movie was the cure for cancer. And yet unlike Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, Marvel, Pirates and other franchises, no one was wearing Avatar shirts or asking for Avatar toys for Christmas. As a cultural phenomenon it seems totally confined to the theaters, where dedicated fans see the film again and again.
I'm into this film mainly for one reason, it's world building. The story itself is okay and I'm a sucker for cliche tropes (what can I say, I have comfort tropes), but the world building in this is phenomenal. Like you were saying around 11:15 there is lore for all the plants and creatures of Pandora and that gets me fascinated. I have always dreamed of seeing a new planet with life on it much like our own but I have a feeling I won't live to see that happen so this is the next best thing. Pandora is a new planet, or specifically a moon, that has new humanoid creatures, animals, insects, and plant life that have all been built up and made real by lore and backstory. That's amazing! Seeing a world that is vaguely like ours but so different at the same time is really fun and fascinating to think about even if it's all fiction. It also helps that the mocap and CGI stand out significantly just to make the world feel all the more real. 13:43 are my exact thoughts. I'm all for the new underwater world's we'll see in the next film, I'm excited. I don't care what other people have to say.
I absolutely love avatar and avatar 2 is the movie I’ve been most excited to come out in the last 12 years. I just can’t explain my excitement that it comes out in 3 days!! If you haven’t seen the extended version you absolutely have to, they cut out a few really good and touching scenes!
i actually liked Quarritch becasue he was a SOLDIER to the hilt. he had a job and that job was to kill the enemy and protect his side and he made no bones about that. its why he is able to communicate so easily with Jake becasue as you point out he doesn't treat him like shit speaks the mission and respects him for being a soldier. Quarritch NEVER losses cred as a threat right until the moment he dies and I LOVE THAT. He is a BADASS leader of men and if the plot didn't dictate that the Na'vi win WE ALL KNOW THEY WOULD HAVE TOTALLY WRECKED THE NAVI. The battle with Jake as his Avatar in the Mech suit after his entire army got destroyed by plot armor ismade deeply personal. he is fighitng a traitor who just killed thousands of his own men. FRANKLY JAKE IS A CRIMINAL OF THE WORST SORT and IRL he would be in a war crimes court for treason and mass fratricide. I love the look of the Human technology and how realistic it is for the most part, i love the look of the navi and all that insane VISUAL details. but its skin deep and that is entirely JAMES FAULT. the problem with Avatar was it was VISUALLY very impressive. but the ENTIRE CULTURE and especially the Music of Pandora was gutted by James after wasting YEARS building up a truly new and alien culture just to dumb it down for his "american audience". Ha literally created the enture culture of the Na'vi to be NEW AND ALIEN AND THEN WRECKED IT FOR MURICANS. that being said: james cameraon also made Titanic which was... a joke and was another visualy feast but had so many holes in its history that its frankly embarrassingly Holywood and a total disrespect to the people who actually died in that tragedy as it frankly ignores some of thge most important details for a BS romance that never would have happend IRL. so yes FUCK HIM. Battle Angel Alita would have suffered the James Cameron Curse if he hadn't given it to another director.
I was blown away when I decided to read the Bible and noticed almost every western tv show movie or book is just a retelling of the stories in the Bible
It's ok to hate a movie, infact if you hate a movie that everyone loves and you have a good reason, then I respect you, but if you hate and don't know why- I'll slap you
Personally I dislike the messaging behind the theme. Basically humanity deserves death, and there’s absolutely no downsides or problems with more simple tribal life. It’s essentially propaganda. A story with similar themes that is a million times better is Princess Monoke. A film that still leans towards preserving nature, but is willing to give humans and civilisation a fair and understandable motive for its actions.
I hated it because I was forced to watch it over and over because my dad was obsessed with it, and I just remember it being so long and boring (as a kid). I recently watched it again when it was rereleased in theaters and I liked it a lot. I didn’t even realize it was widely hated till I saw this video.
You hit on something interesting here. Sometimes when we go back and revisit something we disliked as a child, we can be pleasantly surprised how the same experience feels when we have aged.
I use to hate the phantom of the opera and titanic cause my mom had it on replay. I revisited it a few years ago and now I’m the one who always has it on replay😭.
I didn’t know there were so many people who didn’t like avatar till this year…
This is how I felt with PepperAnne.
I’m surprised how much I hated the show as a child. I absolutely love it now that I’m an adult and revisited it this year!
I liked it but wha i hated is that main character got with the alien girl even if its in his avatar form its still weird
Honestly I don't think it was hated... A certain anti-woke sentiment(and I don't judge people who feel that way as it has oversaturated most media whatever you feel about a cause, these things get to be too represented) has merged with pro war and other critical sensibilities to blow the film's bad qualities out of proportion.
Love how the people who complain that Avatar’s story is unoriginal will still go and see the same superhero movies with the same plot
100x this
But it's so cool cuz at the end during the credits, you get Superhero A from Superhero B movie that'll say something like 'we got a problem', bass goes boom and back to credits and the people are like 'whooooaaaaaa'
Not me. I haven't paid to see a superhero movie since The Dark Knight.
I spent more money renting Avatar on DVD than I have spent on the entire MCU.
And I'm not watching either franchise because they're both worthless.
I dislike superhero movies.
Yet Spider-Man no way home is a repackaged greatest hits album and no one complains.
Its perfectly fine to hate it but most of the hate it gets feels so forced and jump on the bandwagon kinda mentality.
I think it’s hated so heavily not because it’s raw dogshit but because of how average and meh the story is next to it’s earnings. People don’t hate an underwhelming ok at best movie, they hate that said movie somehow got to the heights avatar did.
I think the biggest reason Avatar is disliked is because it was promoted relentlessly for like 5 years.
The same issue Frozen has. It was the marketing, not the actual film itself.
@@ryanb9749 it was promoted to be in theaters for 5 years ? Are you making stuff up now ? Lmao
@@chrisbrown113096 I mean like everytime there was a new TV or product. Avatar would always be center screen and it got old fast.
Based on my observation, when headlines came out with how much money this movie needs to make just to “break even,” people started wanting it to fail just because.
Never hated it. Just very forgettable to me. I heard how great it was and decided to give it a watch back when it first came out, then promptly never thought about it. Until about 3 years later, when a girlfriend mentioned a sequel to which I said "Why?" And "Hasn't it been a while since the first one? Who would want to see a sequel?" Then this year I heard about the sequel and said "Huh, I guess my ex was right."
The sequel is amazing
The sequel is better than the first Avatar imo. Even the 3D is better
@@realglutenfree obviously the 3D is better, since the first film released more than a decade ago
You might eat your words soon because they are 2 confirmed sequels and another speculated 2 movies, coming out every two years. (Dec 2024, 2026 and so fourth)...I guess we will be forced to not forget it
For the most part I feel the movies are more or less a tech demo.
The premise is fine.
Humanity at the start of their Star Faring History and the Na'vi and Pandora just being a speed bum that if Humanity succeeds in conquering will be nothing more than a footnote in the History of Humanity.
I was actually in the military when the first movie came out. I went to see it in theaters and, yeah, it sounds crazy, but I could totally understand why Jake would feel more welcome and comfortable around the other military characters. That bit in the beginning about a good ol' fashioned safety briefing was something that totally made sense to me. There really is something comforting about the familiarity of routine.
People expecting Jake to side with aliens from the beginning is stupid. These aliens have been trying to kills his brothers in arms. Jake just wanted to be able to walk again. He decided to follow the orders to uphold the deal he was presented.
I have always wondered how the military/humans are supposed to be the baddies. Humanity is dying and needs unobtanium, and the navi were completely uncooperative no matter how humanity approached them. Hell they created alien bodies for communication. You cant be more hardcore than that. At the same time, navi tribes were in war with each other for generations so it's not like violence is a unknown animal for them. Those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones
@@Bullshitvol2 Oh, don't get me wrong. I believe the military leadership and the corporations mining another planet and killing the native inhabitants are DEFINITELY the baddies. 100%. If Earth is dying, it's humanity's fault, and it doesn't give them any right to do what they're doing. Just wanted to make that clear.
@@sparkymularkey6970
Really? So let me ask another question.
In the movie District 9 the situation was reversed. Here it was the technologically superior but dying alien race that arrived at earth and was dependend for help from native humans. They traded technology to warlords and gangs for food and created incredible powerful criminal forces
What is your opinion for that movie?
This is a catch question, because the only way for you not being a hipocrite would be to take the site of humanity and regard the stranded aliens as baddies regardless of their situation. I mean their ship being stranded is 100% their fault and it doesn't give them any right to do what they're doing
@@sparkymularkey6970
...and your your comment got filtered. Looks like not even youtube appreciate how you talk about humanity and Avatars Resources Development Administration lol.
When I saw the film as a kid, it really captured and stoked my already overactive imagination. I was fascinated by the strange and sometimes terrifying world of Pandora. I really felt the conflict Jake had to deal with between the humans and the Na'vi. I felt the emotion when the Quaritch callously destroys the Hometree and bulldozes the Tree of Souls. I was on the edge of my seat at the end, hoping that Jake would be successfully transferred to the Avatar permanently. I had never seen Ferngully or Dances with Wolves (and I still haven't) so I did not give a **** about the story being 'derivative' or 'unoriginal'. That's the sort of thing professional critics whine about. Normal moviegoers just want to get swept up by a good movies like I was. Unlike too many of the films released today, I really feel like this one had a soul, that the filmmakers actually cared about what they were doing.
Yeah, I’ve never seen Ferngully or dance with wolves either
the hate bandwagon is just as arbitrary as the one that made it popular
Exactly my thoughts!
Agreed!
Same dude Avatar was something I fell in love with and it inspired me to become a writer of my own stories. Love it to its very core with the world-building, story, characters, and allegories.
I think a large portion of that hate comes from just how overhyped it was. When something gets endlessly talked about and shoved in people's faces, that can breed contempt and even resentment, and people grow hungry for quite literally _anything_ else.
But haters generally bring up a lack of cultural impact as a sign that Avatar didn't actually resonate with anyone despite being the highest grossing movie ever. They act as though Avatar made all that movie in the theater and no one ever thought about it again just because people don't make memes from it.
It's literally not overhyped though lol. The technology on this movie back in 2009 is still better than most movies these days, almost 15 years later. Everyone always said the story was very basic, this isn't a new take. That's literally not the point of these movies. If you hate something because it's good you're just an idi0t.
My case, it was so overhyped because it has visual spectacle and Pocahontesque plot that I just couldn't like due to expectation (unlike Pocahontas, ironically, which people didn't feed me a false image at all).
It's not bad by any means, and it isn't great either
I don't think It was ever overhyped, they literally invented new technology to film the Avatar. To this day there's nothing that can beat it in terms of the CGI apart from the second part of the Avatar, and the first part came out 12 years ago. You can criticize the plot as cliché, but calling Avatar anything but great is ignorant at this point
@@jayhartRIC those are not the haters. You have to remember something to hate it. The people who argue that the movie has zero cultural significance (including almost all film students) don't really remember the movie enough to hate it. They are indifferent.
i think avatar had a solid story despite it not being entirely original. but a solid story + the spectacular visuals and world building makes it a phenomenal film to me.
Solid implies well made
@@shanoncg Correct.
@@shanoncg oh well where im from people usually use it like the word "decent"
I feel like the concept of the story, despite being unoriginal, is somewhat an important topic, though. I liked avatar, both films, even though the story is flat. I dont *need* a complex story to be entertained, even though it helps, since to me, the bullshit didnt outweigh the fun/cool aspects, but there were a lot of "why didnt they just do X" in the avatar movie this year, which is a sign of poorly thought out scenes, but almost every movie has it, even the fabled LOTR movies.
Nope. Visuals are awesome But the stories are Shitty. Mc is extremely unlikeable to anybody who has a brain
This is ironic. When the original movie was actually showing, all I heard were good things. This is how I know the "hate" trend is not real. At the time, I had no awareness of the movie until everyone told me how amazing it was, and I finally went to see it in week 3. I was blown away and spread the word to my friends. I saw it in IMAX for a second time a week later and it remains the only movie I've seen more than once in theaters.
Years go by and now all you hear is the hate on the internet. But in the real world, people who don't frequently comment on social media still mostly have fond memories of the first film. I was talking to coworkers about the sequel and we're going to see it in IMAX opening weekend.
I had the exact same experience with the film. I think it’s also worth noting that the same thing happened with The Force Awakens. When it came out, pretty much everyone was over the moon and gushing about it. Then the bandwagon hate train got rolling and the hot take became “it’s just New Hope all over again”. Goes to show how shallow and cynical internet culture can be
Precisely, and now that the sequel is less than a week away, I see far more excitement than hate.
Its garbage
@@ChuySki I disagree.
I remember a lot of people loving it but also plenty of people hating it. I remember coming out of the theater thinking it was awesome and my buddy said it’s basically Pocahontas in space. Once he said that the movie was ruined for me.
I saw it in IMAX three times purely for the visuals. Something about it put me in the world to the point that I physically felt like I was flying.
Hell yeah, same. Only movie I went to the theater twice for.
Yeah I was going to go a second time as well
@Tal @ajc 123 have y’all seen the second one yet? I’m in same boat as you for the first one, I saw it at least three times in theaters. Just got back from seeing the second one and thought it was equally as fantastic and hope to get the chance to see it again before it leaves theaters
Honestly a flim I think I watched like 5 times not out of a love of the story but of the visuals.
Im currently trying to see way of the water a second time in theaters, very upset ive never seen the original in 3D
I think the only problem with Avatar is the fact that most of its depth was cut in the final version. I'm not sure how, but my father has a version of the movie that has a ton of deleted scenes, even more than the extended cut, and I was completely blown away by its storytelling. From what I've heard and seen of the final version(I've never watched it), it feels stupid by comparison, so I can understand if not everyone likes it. But the version that I saw is within my top 5 favorite movies of all time.
The movie is supposed to be 3 hrs long, but Cameron decided to delete 30 mins of scene as studio execs told him. The theatrical runtime is 2h45m
Part of the problem is that movies try to meet a certain time limit. It's simply not possible to explore every character in depth while also making a satisfactory main story.
That's my beef with the movie. The characters are one dimensional . It's just a good guy beats up the bad guy story.
@@randomly_random_0 That makes sense, I think the version that I watched was around 3h15m.
@@yardiemark Yeah, and the version that I watched felt different.
"Unobtanium" has been a physicist & engineer inside joke since the 1950's. It's use in this film was both clever and warranted. The scientific community, for how often we get stereotyped as white lab coat robots, do actually have a sense of humor from time to time. Look up the term's history.
And it’s still less silly than the names of several actual elements and minerals.
Yeah you literally hear scientists name shit, random weird names in the news all the time
@@ECKohns like uranium. It makes me think it has something to do with pee 🤔
Someone named a beetle "polychisme" (pronounced "poly kiss me"), so it's hardly unique.
want to know what it's really called i think you will like it better than unobtanium Stellarium is the better name for it
Hamlet was actually based off the original Norse story about a Scandinavian king that gets killed by his brother. Robbert Eggers wanted to tell the story Shakespeare based Hamlet off of.
Lion King is also based on Hamlet
We have been ripping off the same story for like 3000 years.
Which is the basis for The Northman.
@@vgmaster9 that’s what he just said
It’s the ultimate revenge story. There are a million ways to tell that story, so people did it and did it really well. The issue is Dances With Wolves isn’t that great of a story to begin with.
I think most people dont hate the movie, i think they think its mediocre, but they hate the fact that it is the highest grossing film oat, and that alot of people love it
Endagame Marvel foi medíocre .
@@pedrodaniel8897 You’re definitely correct. Only part I KIND OF enjoyed were CERTAIN PARTS in its last battle. Other than that, I didn’t give a SHIT.
@@Mr.Honest247 didnt give a shit but still watched it 🗿
@@pedrodaniel8897 correct it was… but so was Avatar
Endgame is mediocre and people don’t whine about it being the second highest grossing film of all time.
I walked into the theater without viewing any knowledge of it and was blown away. Saw it 3 times in IMAX. Soo immersive , fascinating
A true test of a movie is how does it standup to multiple viewings. Movies that do that I love are:
1. Grand Prix
2. Manchurian Candidate (black and white version)
3. The Good, The Bad and The Ugly
4. The Last Starfighter
5. The Right Stuff
6. Die Hard
7. Conspiracy Theory
Why these and other favorites of mine? They hit the right note. Grand Prix is the best racing movie despite its so-so storyline. TGTBTU is always a trill and I try to remember all the catch lines. It is my favorite western of all time. The Last Starfighter is a favorite for multiple reasons, story and the graphics that was making its way into movies. Each of these movies just captures my soul. The director and actors all jelled, it all worked despites some of the goofs.
Would Avatar do that to me? No. I am not interested in Dances With Wolves in space. And it's too long. Now, if Cameron did a sequel to Alita: Battle Angel, a movie he was involved in. I would have watched it, maybe twice at the theater. That movie was exciting, the story rather good and the characters absolutely blew me away. Alita was the girl who could kick ass despite only being a head on a mechanical body.
walked into theater without any knowledge as well, and thought it was overall pretty boring, and overly dramatic at times. i hate when every word out of a characters mouth has to be some podium speech, acting if every word they say is the most important thing in the universe. i think the first scenes managed to show some realistic social behaviour in a really immersive way, but the rest of the movie just shits on it. it started off good, and went downhill really fast
If you get the chance you need to see the sequel, seen it twice (so far) on the biggest IMAX screen in the UK in 3D and it's absolutely gorgeous and seamless, the 3D is brilliant. After the second one, at end of the film, I asked someone who was sitting beside me what they thought, they said that it was the most immersive experience that they had ever had. I also saw it on a Cineworld SuperScreen in 3D and it looked brilliant on that screen as well. Now, I have no idea if HFR (high frame rate) was being used in either case, what I can say is that if it was, I didn't notice it.
So my advice, if you want to see the sequel, then get down to the biggest screen that you can find and watch it in 3D, I didn't get any headaches watching it in 3D, unlike when a film has been posted to 3D - I have occasionally suffered a headache at the back of the head.
@@carlosmarx2380 exactly! its one of those movies that in order to enjoy it I have to shut my brain off. they didn't develop the characters at all and everything felt like it was happening because the story needed it to happen and not because the characters were making choices.
As an artist and creator of imaginary worlds myself, Avatar hit straight up my alley. It swept me off my feet in awe of the immense, flourishing avalanche of creative spirit that hit my eye and my heart. I would obsessively pay extra attention to the fauna of Pandora and imagine what their evolutionary tree of life might look like, and what it is that keeps the world together and makes it feel like one consistent place in nature. And I just think that they did a phenomenal job building the world. I really enjoyed Grace's character, even though she was a bit flat and goofy, but her deep fascination for the planet and its neural network and how her character offers the viewers an alternative view of Na'vi spirituality and how it is based on real and existing mechanisms that are unique to the planet, and how she says "I need to take samples" while on the edge of dying just made her incredibly sympathetic, because I can relate. Pandora is a dangerous paradise with wonders beyond imagination, nature just doing its thing, never asking whether humans like it or not. I fell in love with the artistic spirit and imaginary nature of Pandora and how all things are deeply, even spiritually connected in that place, and I'll forever love the creature designs that they made for it. Always made me feel like the people who worked on it where living my dream.
The thing is, there is been so much cut out from the final version of film (even extended one) practically all characters that you call “blank” have an underlying motives that just been missed (apart maybe from quoritch). Even the sleezy corporate guy. It’s all in the deleted scenes
This isn't directed at you, but why do amateur film fans have the mindset that "motives explained = good character = good story"? A lot more has to go into a character than just motives to assert them as a solid character, just as motives aren't required for good characterisation in the first place.
@@Wackaz of course other details are also important. but motives are essential
@@maryray8120 How so? Why are motives essential? Why can't ambiguity or other characteristics which do not establish motives, make a character interesting and provoking?
@@Wackaz Motives give mrke depth to a character. It goes beyond them just doing something because they're evil or they're good.
An ambigous character can work but they need to be interesting in their presentation and/or behavior. Their exact motives are something you can ponder over.
If a character doesn't seem to have much of a reason behind their actions and aren't particularly entertaining already, they feel flat and not real.
@@Wackaz Lay off, brother. She clearly meant "motives plus many other character details". There were a ton of cut scenes and plots around the secondary characters that if left included could have helped the movie feel a lot more character-driven and emotional.
I think it felt like spectacle over story and it makes sense it was so popular because the story is tried and true but everyone in the movie felt extremely one dimensional. I think a lot of people were expecting a good balance between visual and mental storytelling but it felt too heavy on the visual aspects
Exactly this. If it wasn't such a pretty movie no one would look twice at it.
I watched the second one recently hoping the plot would be better (especially for a 3 hour movie) but (not wanting to spoil) it didn't feel like anything original and I didn't really like almost any of the characters. One dimensional is a good way to describe them.
The movie was 3 hours long but I felt like nothing even happened in it.
Exactly visually it's beautiful but god dang that movie bores me to death
Exactly, I just don't like those movies which are just for effect and it's exactly the case for Avatar. I am pretty experienced sci-fi and fantasy viewer and reader and I just don't see anything interesting in this movie. Even some episodes of StarGate or StarTrek could make similar story in much better way, even without fancy CGI which doesn't look that good anymore after 13 years.
I have to disagree. I feel like what you said is exactly the problem of the sequel, but the original film had a great story and took time to introduce characters and make you care about them. Something Avatar 2 didnt do
from what I've heard and seen a lot of scenes were cut out to lower the films run time and I think that could have been part of the issue, I say part of because there's likely other reasons but some of the deleted scenes and cut content would have boosted the story and characters far more
The movie might have "issues" I can see and agree with that -- but despite that I still adore this movie so much! Like the feeling I got as a kid watching this has never been replicated. It was such wonder and just feelings of awe when I sat down to watch this in cinemas for the first time, it was truly magical and I don't even remember how many times I got to re-watch it while it was airing at the cinema cause I just wanted to FEEL what the movie made me feel again, haha.. 😂
Great essay.
I like Avatar a lot, not because of the story lines, but because of the craftsmanship and the world that’s been created.
Looking forward to nr.3 and wonder how Kari’s character will evolve.
The world was well made in style. But the actual world in writing aspects was garbage.
me too.💙
What makes Avatar great is their world building in terms of story. Obviously the #1 factor it’s the Immersive Visual like no other.
I think my reason for “hating” this film was the fact I had to watch it as a kid and sat around bored as fuck for hours. I’ve rewatched it just once since I was a kid and that was the other day, and it was good. Did not deserve my years of disrespect 😂
I felt this way about Star Wars as a kid. The movies felt like long, I'd get bored and fall asleep 😅 Now I love them.
Same
Same. Fell asleep on it. Never watched it again.
@@TwilightFlip mine was LOTR, i love that movie now, it aint perfect but its one of the reasons why i really like dwarves now
@@lenny_1369 it ain't perfect, but it's about as close as we can get :D
Even middle school me in 2009 was able to recognize and kinda roll my eyes at some of its flaws. Even then I was able to notice the “unobtanium” and the cartoony-level of villainy in the first watching.
But even in light of that, Cameron and his team were able to make me feel a very real sense of loss (and a weird kind of fomo?) when the movie ended and I walked out of the theater. That kind of connection is incredibly rare, at least for me.
I was the same way. I remember being a kid and making the Ferngully comparison because I had just seen Ferngully in school. Pochohontas was another common comparison.
Watching it years later I thought it was pretty good, and the comparisons to Ferngully, Pochohontas, or Dances with Wolves felt very shallow. It kept my attention to the end and I was invested enough in the characters and world to give a damn when one died or feel tension when someone was in danger. The movie works, it does it's job. It entertains.
Not sure why "unobtanium" gets criticised so much. It's a term that's been used in engineering long before Avatar was a twinkle in James Cameron's eye.
@@hetmankp because it’s the main macguffin in a high profile movie that otherwise put a LOT of effort into the backstory, lore, and naming of everything in the world.
@@hetmankp It IS a silly name. They could have called it anything and no one would've cared. Unobtanium kind of deserves to be the meme it has become.
@@hetmankp So true. Also the people who laugh at Unobtanium are the same people who think the fantasy element Adamantium is awesome (I guess they don't know that adamant is a word). ALSO also, no matter how stupid an element sounds, nothing will be dumber sounding than Americium, Californium, and Einsteinium, which are all real elements on our periodic table. People have been naming elements dumb things since we first discovered elements lmao.
I just wanted to point this out. Unobtanium is an accurate scientific word used to describe a material which near impossible to achieve. It's a catch-all phase used for the material.
thanks for this comment. and i don't know why people criticize this name, even if it wasn't a real scientific term
This reminds me of how UFO’s are not just alien spaceships, anything unknown is considered a UFO.
If the script writers came up with Unobtanium as a name, why could not the scientists of the mining company of Pandora come up with such name? Scientists give dumb names to lots of things, just look at the dinosaurs!
I grow up in Nigeria with a lot of passed down rich African cultures. One of which is the elders telling stories with the kids gathered around under the night sky. Some details of these stories can change from region to region. But at the end of each story, elder telling the story ask everyone what they think the moral of the story is. These stories can be told in form of jokes even but they often have a lesson hidden behind the plot. I am sure other cultures around the world have something similar. Could be why it was popular outside USA.
Some movies are only there to entertain but I believe there is something deeper hidden in this one. You said it yourself the plants are so detailed.
So dig deeper, Avatar has so many things to say.
Agreed
Avarta yeah… it’s Avatar
I loved the movie when it came out, but then I saw Princess Mononoke and realized they seemed very familiar except the characters were better fleshed out and the two sides are both explored so you don't find yourself picking a side til the end. And even then in the end you see some characters are only doing what they think is best for their people expect for the MC trying to make peace between both.
Princess Mononoke used to be my favorite movie, until Avatar came out.
@@Shaddiewolf 💀
@@Shaddiewolf That's wild
@@Shaddiewolf I actually can't believe that
It's also VERY similar to Fern Gully.
Avatar is awesome! So many people complain about what the movie is, but Cameron accomplished everything he was trying to accomplish with it. Everything he wanted me to feel in every moment he made me feel. It doesn't matter if the story is simple or derivative. Cameron is better at telling any story through the medium of film than most others. I also think the story is underappreciated. Yes the actual plot is very simple and has been done before, but I think that benefited the movie because it gave us a very smooth and easy path into the world of Pandora - and the world of Pandora, the story of the world and its people is extremely unique and completely engrossing.
Edit: Just saw The Way of Water and was massively disappointed. It's not that the story was simple or anything but the villains didn't have strong motivations and so felt like a weak threat. The big emotional moments at the end didn't work at all because of how little set up there was for them. It really surprised me. Cameron usually is so tight with his build ups and so on to make me feel really engaged with what's going on in the story but at the end of this movie I really wasn't caring. I'd give the first movie a 9.5/10 and the second a 6/10.
Most blockbusters have worse plots, worse characters, worse execution, etc... Simplicity is ok, in fact it's probably for the best if you're aiming to make a universally understandable movie. I would say nearly all of Cameron's movies are pretty simple and straight forward plots. He just executes them very well, and often pushes the envelope in other film making aspects. Epic visuals, scale, action, set design (watch behind the scenes for Titanic, it's incredible, how many film makers can come close to Titanic's production?), etc..
for real
Sorry to disagree, but I felt exactly the opposite. I didn't care for it. I didn't care about the characters and found them forgettable, instead. The story is something I already saw many times. I didn't feel engaged with the story at all. The cgi is the only outstanding thing about the movie.
I have to disagree not so much because the problems mentioned in the video but rather one simple fact of the plot where in James Cameron not only loses me but loses me in such a way that Not only was I unable to finish the movie but I actually went on the Internet to find fanfiction of humanity coming back to kill the blue cat people my favorite is crossovers with Warhammer 40,000 where the space marines do it with maximum 40,000 over kill, now obviously I am not saying that you are necessarily wrong and enjoying the movie simply that James Cameron didn’t do what he said out to do because not only did I Disagree with his position in this movie but I am so unable to see the other side that I have come to out and out hate the so called good guys.
The first point requires a little bit of background to fully understand namely that I am an old-school Star Wars and Star Trek fan so simplistic characters and recycled plots and even whole scenes do not bother me as long as you do something interesting with them. The Star Wars ending to the original movie includes Word for Word re-creations of the climax of the Dam busters, The Star Trek episode Balance of terror is simply cutting and pasting an existing destroyer movie into space and adding a slight twist to the ending, neither of these things bother me so Avatar’s plot being a recycling of dances with wolves with elements of Disney’s Pocahontas thrown in doesn’t really bother me all that much, what dose bother me is the fact that the Nav’i or however you spell it are two stupid to live, there so called goddess is not worthy to be worshiped, and that Either the space goddess or Jake himself is guilty of the attempted genocide of the human race.
The part where the plot really started to lose me was when generic Native American princess stereotypes but I am now a blue cat person saved Jake from the cats, Despite how the movie plays it for a Stone Age people not only was that the Best option she had but it was the only option she could not allow A pack of dangerous alpha predators to get a taste for her species especially not in the area immediately around her home, The fact that she gets upset at Jake for being in that situation and is trying to tell him that they didn’t need to die, not only permanently puts her in the position of spoiled brat that doesn’t deserve to live in a jungle for me but also makes me completely disregard her and her family as leaders of people who live in a jungle because they’re derelict in their duty as leaders. Then she compounds her error by not forcing Jake to drag those corpses back to her home so that her tribe can eat them and survive, Further proving that she has no business being a leader because she is incredibly wasteful and neglectful when it comes to the survival of her people. Please note I have not said the characters name because I don’t know it I can’t remember it she’s completely forgettable except for the parts that made me want to punch her face in.
But of course this is all the will of their goddess so I shouldn’t blame them which leads into point 2, namely That the goddess creature Is not worthy to be worshiped. I believe that if you are going to claim divine status you need to be worthy of that status and any being that forces her Followers to reject anything that would make their lives easier and remain in the most primitive state and not only thank her for that but also thank her when she culls their numbers because she thinks there are too many of them is unworthy of being called a goddess. At best what I think you to call such an entity is just that a space entity of immense power if you want to get supernatural the word demon comes to mind.
And last but not least Jake Sully’s actions are the actions of a villain because unless the humans come back like we see they do in the way of water trailer they will be doomed to extinction. The movie keeps hammering home that the military and the big corporation that are on the planet are greedy, only to turn around and undermine this very idea by stating that humanity is on the verge of extinction because of the collapse of the environment on the planet earth,. Now leaving a side climate change because that’s a can of worms that no one actually wants to get involved in when talking about whether or not a movie is good, no crime the humans commit in any of the parts of the movie that I actually watched justify The extermination of the human race, and I know nothing the humans did in any of the parts that I didn’t watch justify genocide because you can’t justify genocide. These actions would put Jake Sully roughly in the same position as Emperor Palpatine and Grand Moff Tarkin from Star Wars or the Borg from Star Trek unless you argue that Jake and the rest of the Avatar pilots where brainwashed by the so-called goddess, which would then make them pawns and victims of the true villain of the picture, the living planet.
So that is my over Analyzed reason for considering this movie to be forgettable in places that I like and downright evil in the places I hate.
Ghey!
I personally ✨️adored✨️ the 1st Avatar movie as a kid so I'm looking forward to the 2nd one 👍
Same
And it kinda delivers honestly, I really liked it, and the criticism I've seen is plain hateful, those who hate this movie wanted it to fail as soon as it was announced
I realize the movie had issues but I absolutely loved it. Its hard to explain but it just kind of burrowed into my brain ever since I watched it
Interesting. I found it utterly forgettable. It went into my brain and out by the time I walked out of the theatre.
@@silverchairsg aight think what you want. i disagree
@@silverchairsg Same for me.
Anything thats massively popular and sucks is gonna be hated intensely. Avatar is the epitome of this
Personally I wouldn’t say hate since the most talked about thing of avatar was how amazing the cgi and visual affects were. But I think the main issue was that it just had a forgettable plot. For me personally when I first watched avatar I wasnt too interested in the story but I did enjoy the worldbuilding, cgi, and how it pretty much immersed u into the world of pandora
The simple plot is from what i see is that anyone can understand the film. It's a film created for the masses/normies who just want to see a film & have a good time. It doesn't need to be complicated to be enjoyable. Despite all the special effects & large budget its a very grounded film with things lots of people can relate to. It's a romantic film not in the form of actual romance per say but in the terms of escapism.
@@izumolee6714 I mean nobody is asking for it to be complicated lol. It just that the plot for the first movie just wasn’t memorable. I mean for anyone who saw the first movie u were to ask them to name the 5 characters from that movie you think they’ll be able too? Other than that for me I still enjoyed the movie but I felt like the plot could’ve been a lot better for a movie of that scale. Not to mention if u actually look at the extended cut they cut a LOT of stuff that should’ve been in the Final Cut that would’ve made me like the plot honestly
@@Nightlizard1564 I mean the way people especially the haters talk about the plot they seem to overlook the simplicity of it. All of James Cameron's films have a simple plot from Terminator, to Aliens to T2 to True Lies to Titanic. All of these aren't overly complicated if you look at them bare bones. That is what Cameron is good at, taking these simple ideas & creating a larger than life spectacle.
I understand why some don't like the plot but are you really there watching Avatar for the plot? Or are you watching it for the grandeur of it all. I felt many who saw it didn't really care for the plot as it wasn't the main selling point of the film. It's there as a compliment for the overall again spectacle.
With Way of Water than the plot will be more important as you need something for film goers to latch onto & from what i hear the family aspect & characters are more fleshed out. Avatar was to introduce the idea of Pandora, Way of Water is there to keep people invested.
@@izumolee6714 well that’s the thing tho cause u can say the same for most mcu movies now. The modern audience no longer cares for an actual good story as long as it’s nonstop action, quips, and cameos your good to go. In Avatars case it’s main selling was ofc the vfx but it’s like what he said in the video. The box office doesn’t determine the quality of a movie. Avatar had great vfx for its time but just lacked a good plot. I mean sure James Cameron’s plot have always been simple but compared to terminator and alien at least they had plots that were memorable ESPECIALLY terminator 2 lol. I am interested to see way of water but I don’t think it’s gonna do as well as cameron wants it to be.
The plot wasn't forgettable - it was simple, which is not the same thing.
I like what you pointed out about Jake working for the Colonel. Anyone who thinks it is too "convenient" likely did not serve in the Army or Marines or Military in general. I served 7 years, deployed twice as a Seargent to a war zone, and later went back multiple times as a DOD contractor. I did all this from 18 to 31. It is all you know and I am only conflicted now in my late thirties thinking about the overall role we all played. Plus I only joined because I needed to make my way through the world and it seemed like a career starting option which it was. I was born and raised in city and I do not come from a military family. Sometimes you simply go down a path and you know what you know when you know it. I am overall glad I served but not exactly proud at the same time. Jake's motivations and personal conflicts of being pulled between two worlds makes perfect sense to me. The sense of honor and giving your word and the desperate need to keep it. He sealed his fate when he mated with a native which he knew was basically getting married. As a man who was married for over a decade, I get why he made the choice be it wrong or right.
I remember when Avatar came out in 2009, it had a 9.0 rating on IMDB, and it stayed like that until 2012 (I constantly checked). Then, all of a sudden, three years after the movie came out, a lot of people started voting down Avatar until it reached 7.8. That’s when I knew this was a smear campaign done by competing franchises, because they’re scared of Avatar
I have been watching the smear campaign the last month and it is pukeworthy.
Watched this movie last night and it's pretty good......shut up marvel tards!
No... The original avatar was a mediocre movie with good graphics. The 9 rating was because his exaggerating merketing.
@@pafoneto1275 it was a good movie with good graphics
@@pafoneto1275 meh
@@greywolf9783 any argument?
I think it comes down to this: In all of the properties that spawn "Expanded Universes", there is the story that's being told by the movie, but there's a second layer of stories happening in the background, or just offscreen. This glimpse of more stories waiting to be told excites the imagination, and leaves people with an invitation to participate, if only in their own imaginations. Avatar doesn't have that. The story of Jake Sully IS the story of Pandora. You can't really tell another story about the Omatikaya, because there's nothing to share other than what we've already seen through Jake's eyes. That leaves other storytellers with no room to participate. No side novels. No Tabletop RPGs. No card game. Even the themes of the movie make it feel like entering into that world as a fan is possibly appropriation. I think that, over time, this "look-but-don't-touch" feeling has soured people on Avatar.
Agree. there is 0 lore which leaves us feeling like if you took out the conflict (colonization) we would be left with happy aliens in perfect balance with their world, which further feeds into the "Ecological Indian" trope which can be harmful as well
@@francescacosta259You go on that whole speech about imagination, yet I am surprised you still can’t see the potential for expansion with Avatar. There is a decent amount of lore if you bother to read the wikias and some of the written material. There are even different types of Navi being introduced with different cultures and animals. How is that not expansion? Did you even watch the sequel or read about the upcoming films?
@@garlandrose9948 it's ok to not like something. It's also ok to like something that other people criticize.
I watched both movies and read a great deal on the valid issues found within. About to read the book "Ecological Indian: Myth and History" so I can better explore why I don't enjoy Avatar but I could read the Silmarillion cover to cover and entire sci Fi and fantasy worlds with copious amounts of attached material. James Cameron had 5+ hours of film to get me interested, and has yet to do so. It is devoid of anthropology and history. I will no longer consume Avatar content.
@@francescacosta259 There's a bunch of world building and lore if you actually paid enough attention to the movies instead of mindlessly watching it
See someone above claimed I must not have seen the movie. You claim I must have mindlessly consumed content.
Not only did I watch both, but I did an entire science project in a grad level course about Pandora's ecology.
*Still* think the people of Pandora are "Ecological Indians" and there are valid criticisms about how vague and non-existent their anthropology is
In avatar 1, we watched it when we were a kid and we all astonished and amazed about the wonders we see for the first time.
Now in avatar 2, we are watching it as an adult. so i think why the 2nd movie is all about family.
the theme both movies corresponds to our age bracket.
@@mmm-mmm as long as it doesn't go the way of EP 7 , 8 and 9.
After all Avatar and StarWars are now property of the Mouse
And i did enjoy the first and second Avatar Movies, and also Star Wars Episode 1-6 (and the TV Shows like Clone Wars, Bad Batch, Mandalorian etc)
So here is hoping, if the Mouse Suits keep their "ideas" away from the Creators.
@@DrDrystalStar wars 7-9 is WAY better than Avatar
@@guystudios no
@@Epic-pf8od Yes
@@guystudios no
It’s hated because it’s made the most money in the box office. People always need something to hate. I’m so excited to see this next movie. Especially as an artist. The world building is incredible.
MCU ?
@@muhammadnajmimurindo9289 mcu is falling apart, just saw the new movie. So incredible. Not perfect but way better than any mcu movie I’ve watched since end game. Also incredible designs
@@johnsonhoward3909 well, it's a movie, not a book. You go to the movie for action and visuals, story is just a bonus
@@LineOfThy Ya but at that point you might as well stick to shorts on youtube.
@@otimo144 they don't have multi-millionaire visuals
Avatar was my first 3D film and it was surreal. I was somewhere in the middle of 10 and 11 back then, and it was just an amazing experience. Later I bought a DVD of it and I've lost count how many times I've watched the movie since. And mind you it was a CRT TV, yeah I enjoyed the thing in that ancient piece of tech.
It still seems fresh to me no matter how many times I watch it. Every time I watch it I pick up tiny new details. That's the result of effort of humungous craftsmanship put into this movie.
I heard criticisms of this movie only a few years back when I got hooked to TH-cam. And those criticisms didn't make any sense at all. For example, the white saviour card didn't make any sense to me, probably because I never got that feeling (and probably cause I was 11 and Indian and i just viewed it as it is, a simple story, unadulterated by the politics).
And I was most surprised by the comments making it as a betrayal to the human species. I mean i get it, humans are losing, but what for? In my simple understanding, Jake showed more humanity than the humans themselves, showing empathy for the culture whose fate may end up similarly to humans on earth due to their self-destructive path. Humans may face threat of endangerment due to their dependency on Unobtanium, but that doesn't warrant the destruction of other's home. If the Na'vi can move to other places, so can the humans mine it on other parts of the planet. No matter how much they mine, they'll be back for more. Once it's over under the big tree, another home will be their next target.
And adding this to the context, Jake's dialogue -"They can't take whatever they want" feels more powerful. I think the intent here is to increase love for Earth by showing people what they've been missing out on if they don't act now, through Pandora. Most tend to forget this main moral. It is, in fact, for the humanity.
The white savior criticism in particular doesn't make sense to me because the whole movie is about everyone coming together and getting rid of the thread in cooperation. Jake didn't really do shit except unite everyone and then they fought for themselves and their world. Also in the end he actually throws away his human heritage and completely adopts the navi way. Like the whole movie is about how the humans are wrong and the navi are right.
In the end he's not a white human anymore. He's just as much navi as everyone else.
Also I don't get how any of this is a betrayal to humans either. In my eyes the humans in avatar are the destructive ones irl who doesn't care about any form of life and only money. Whereas the navi are the humans of this world who wants to protect it.
Also I completely agree with you that the point of the movie is to show that there's more to this earth than just death and destruction. There are so many things to love and we need to fight for them
the "sleezy evil corporate suit" guy actually shows signs of giving a damn, just being pressured into the wrong thing by investers who hold control of the fate of the company and what it must do. otherwise he never would have gave Jake and Dr. Grace one last chance to persuade the tribe to move out after the Colonel Miles was on his way to blow up the tree.
Also in the one of Avatar deleted scenes when Quaritch recruiting mineworkers to his army. The corporate guy don't agree. It seems he cares about his employees too. Not totally evil.
The hate is from a small vocal group in certain bubbles of the internet. Mostly fandoms of other franchises who have always seen Avatar as a threat. People who actually think Avatar's success was a one time thing are in for a rude awakening in a week.
Yep. The Way of Water about to be a top 5 movie of all time.
Perfectly said brother
Cope.
@@magallanesagustin4952 see you in Pandora, Anon.
I don’t hate this movie because it threatens Star Wars or Star Trek I hate this movie because Jake Sully is a genocidal maniac, or he’s the stooge of an alien entity pretending to be a goddess who is a genocidal maniac, I think Cameron was on a destroy the human race for pollution kick when he wrote this so he forgot that if he wants to make his big bad capitalist villains then he can’t make the fight a matter of human survival, in so doing Jake Sully becomes a monster on par with the Emperor from Star Wars or the Borg from Star Trek, his only saving grace is that he could probably adequately argue that he was being manipulated by a space entity that was posing as a deity. Hopefully now that he’s a father in way of water he’ll find someway to realize that his space goddess is a monster.
Actually...(presses glasses firmly against nose) The Northman is not based on Hamlet. Hamlet is based on the story of The Northman. Shakespeare was inspired to write Hamlet based on the Scandanavian story of Amleth, the son of a King who was murdered and dethroned by his brother. All Shakespeare did was switch the H to the beginning of his characters name.
Period ✨
Honestly, as someone who's seen the film probably 20 times, I think it ranges from "mediocre" to "masterpiece", depending on what categories you look at. I personally love this film, and its definitely in my top 5. The avatar hate bandwagon got old in 2011. Its only worsened over time, and I've had the same experience when I ask people IRL what they disliked about it, and they admit to me they've never seen it. The story is simple and full of tropes, but they happen to be tropes that I love and connect with. The characters are cut down to the bare minimum of "does this action serve the plot?" and if not, its left out. This bothers some people and I FULLY UNDERSTAND WHY, its just not really a problem for the movie. The movie is a masterful example of "trimming the fat" and getting people used to the world while the plot unfolds around them. The movie also handles setups and payoffs expertly. Every single animal or feature of the environment is explained to you so subtly, but just showing you through action, and then all those factors come into play in the third act in pretty awesome ways. I still love the final battle sequence. Also when people say that the visuals are a crutch and the movie is somehow bad because of it, I must remind them that Star Wars and Indiana Jones are carbon copies of movies that came before, but we love them so much because of the unique visual language, settings, and adventure that they introduce.
Also big part of the hate back when it came out had to do with the fact that movie is a direct commentary on the US and other western powers in the middle east, as well as late stage capitalist greed, which many centrists and right-wingers just dismissed and completely missed the point. Saying things like "its anti-military" even though the soldiers were PMCs, etc.
I still remember when my parents picked me up to watch the film. The reason they gave me was its 3D, it looks awsome and you love sci fi so lets watch it. I was 13 back then and absolutely stunned by the visuals. As were my parents btw :D
Side note: The Northman is based off Amleth which directly inspired Shakespeare’s Hamlet. Not the other way around.
The Northman's characters as related to the plot are very similar to the Lion King, just in different forms and settings.
@@lancetruong4957 That doesn't contradict his point. His point is that the Northman, the Lion King and even Hamlet are all unoriginal. If anything, that strengthens the argument being made in this video - just because the plot is being recycled doesn't make it a bad story.
More important side note: The Northman isn't a good movie.
@@misterkite what haha
actually hamlet is a play based on the lion king movie
I'm glad somebody gave this point of view, because when Avatar came out in my high school years, there wasn't a single person that didn't love it. Everyone I knew saw it 2-3 times. Since the announcement of Avatar 2, I'm seeing nothing but hate; It's totally disingenuous.
I guess i was lucky that I heard ppl like it more than dislike it. I watched it and it was as great as the first movie, if not s tad bit better.
I mean, if you had asked me after the first time I saw it I would have said the same thing. We saw it in 3d opening weekend and I was blown away. I couldn’t understand why some people in my group weren’t impressed by it. I went back to see it a second time in a regular theater and I was much less excited. Without the overwhelming visual spectacle the movie is rather mediocre (imo) in the acting and writing department.
The Northman is actually, much more interestingly, based on an old norse story that Hamlet was inspired by. I think that strengthens the whole point
I have never seen the first Avatar, but I went to see the second film a few days ago with my family, and it made me want to watch the first one. I think that is definitely a positive.
I absolutely love Avatar, I´d even say it´s one of my all-time favourite movies
Thing is, I love Avatar. It's one of my favourite films, but even I acknowledge its flaws. But its strength isn't plot or characters, it's Pandora. It was the first time we'd ever felt like we were on an alien planet.
An alien planet whose fauna is exactly Earth's with the same blue sky and green foliage and who animals are essentially blue spliced up versions of animals that exist on Earth with literal direct human analogs for no evolutionary reason. Hell they even hired the dude who is notorious for making truly alien worlds as a concept artist only for him to be laid off because his world looked way too alien and Cameron wanted that Earth familiarity because Cameron likes having his cake and eating it too. In my opinion if you want to truly be transported to another alien world broaden your sense of entertainment fiction because that has happened multiple times in entertainment which is why it's sad that the lowest hanging fruit once again is the most rewarded.
Just painting fucking human with a blue skin all of a sudden makes it an alien world? That is quite a cheap concept
So you mever played games, engaged in sci fi and fantasy concepts before? Anyone I've seen bring this point up just seem so distant from genres and mediums that have done this and it also appears people lack imagination because they think it's not the same.
I'll tell you now. A DnD world is 100x more immersive than whatever avatar has to offer.
@@AnywhereMiami "virgin marvel zombies", dude this is not a fucking kindergarten playground where your uncle who work at Nintendo knows things. 🤣
@@AnywhereMiami lol imagine being stupid enough to think Marvel and Avatar are all that different. They're both popcorn movies for stupid people. The fact you can't see that puts you lower than those who just enjoy stupid fun and can see these movies are kind of stupid.
There are a lot of deleted scenes that flesh out characters like Parker, Max, Norm, Trudy, Tsu'tey and even Jake's internal conflict but they unfortunately never made the final cut because the movie would have been too long
It’s hard for me to call the story bad, just because it’s very predictable and a repeat of previous stories doesn’t make it bad. The visuals and world building are amazingly well done with a mid(c+ imho) story. I saw it 5 or 6 times back in 09 and it was purely due to the visuals I can’t lie
It's an awesome movie, the only one I have watched twice in theaters in decades. Like James Cameron said "the world is the story". (there's another great essay from like stories of old about it)
I liked it when I came out as in "holy shit that 3D thing was rad" and then forgot about it and then whole series of "why no one remembers Avatar" videos came out and the whole white savior silly arguments made it like Avatar was bad and then I was thinking "yea Avatar sucks."
Then last year I bought a 110 inch TV and wanted to try out some movies so I played Avatar and wound up sitting down and finishing the whole things.
Avatar is still rad and more awesome than I remembered.
The only tv I know of Samsung micro led 110 inch
At this point - after 13 years of stupid critique - Avatar is not overrated, it is underrated.
rather i would say underappreciated
My problem with the movie is how aggressively OK it is. And that seems to be the consensus when I talk about to other people I talk too.
Most people don't hate it they either don't remember it or say something along the lines of, Avatar oh yeah that was OK.
I just watched the way of the water 2 days ago and 3 days ago I watched the first movie.BOTH ARE MASTERPIECES IN MY OPINION AND YOU CAN NOT CHANGE MY MIND.
At some point impressive visuals is something you get used to. A captivating story remains rare and much more gratifying.
the way of water is on a new level though, and it’s awesome
@@draconic6352 I really hate the teenage drama stuff, cant stand watching stupid kids, even if they're pretty aliens and thats like 80% of the plot.
@@NotoriousTim it’s not tho
@@draconic6352 That's what it felt like to me.
@@NotoriousTim well to me it felt awesome
I was today years old when I found out "Unobtainium," is a word the scientific community uses to describe a perfect material that solves their current problem.
This was an excellent video.
I just saw Avatar 2 yesterday and thought it was a "good movie", but then I started wondering why Avatar 1 was basically *forgettable*. It came out 13 years ago, was so popular it stayed the highest grossing film for 10 years (...although is it now number 1 again?), and yet I remember seeing in theaters and then not really thinking about it ever since.
I had the same thoughts around how a completely new IP could beat established franchises with massive fandoms, and I think that might be the key: I think those of us that identify with a specific culture or fandom (think 'Netizen', 'Gamer', 'Nerd/Geek', etc) automatically give those types of media unfair accolades based around comparing and contrasting either directly within the same IP or within the same genre/fandom/culture.
Describing Avatar 1 as 'the Nickelback of films' I thought was perfect, but I was kind of hoping you would explore what actually happened historically with an overview (from the buildup/hype before release, what people were actually saying at the time of release, and then why it just faded away and became forgettable/hated?) instead of "I asked some friends and the ones who hated Avatar said "IDK" as to why and thus concludes my argument".
Maybe you can do a follow-up video on this "History of Avatar 1: The initial hype, release, and fall over the last decade (what went wrong?)"?
I'm honestly just hoping that The Way of Water doesn't bury Puss in Boots: The Last Wish at the box office because that is a legitimate animated masterpiece.
I haven't watched it yet but I heard it was really good. I actually liked the first Puss in Boots movie (especially in spanish dub cuz the voice actor is really good) so I can't wait to watch it!
Edit: I watched Puss in Boots (yes, in spanish dub) and I actually liked it more than Avatar 2. It was way more fun to watch and the choppy animation went hard asf!
Doesn't matter what you think. Avatar is also a technological master piece. More so than puss in boots tbh
@@TheSilverwing999 yeah but puss in boots is superior in almost every other way for actually no reason at all
@@TheSilverwing999 Avatar mid
@@TheSilverwing999 i watch movies for the plot and interesting characters, not to hate on avatar i'll still go and watch it but only bc it looks good who knows maybe its a lot better than the first one
I, an 18 year old, had just watched Avatar for the first time since me and my dad were planning on going to see The Way of Water when it released so I wanted to see the first one, and I ended up watching it three times. I'm also hoping to go and see The Way of Water again (and probably a third time). Avatar was the ONLY movie I have ever seen that gave me the feeling of pure ecstasy.
I am 14 and even though I did the pandora rides at animal kingdom in may I just watched avatar for the first time last month cause I heard about the sequel. That’s probably gonna be the only time I’ve ever sat through an almost 3 hour film
The Pure Ecstasy is accurate cause SAME HERE!!!🤩💙
I honestly loved Avatar, saw it as a teenager twice and really really felt the main character and his connection with Neytiri. Can’t wait to see way with water!
That's actually kinda sad the first Avatar and second Avatar movies are basically key jingling for adults it's the movie version of "oooooooo shinyyyyy"
@@Scornfull I respectfully disagree
You just got me even more excited. The online "hate" for this movie was getting ridiculous and I feel like people were hating just because it was a trendy thing to do. James Cameron is a great filmmaker and I wasn't doubting him for a second. He was waiting until the technology became available to fulfill his dream. This man is extremely patient and doesn’t get pressured from the media or fans to hurry him along. Kudos to James Cameron and the success of this movie.
People over look the amazing way James Cameron was trying to communicate the intelligence of nature. It’s a very spiritual movie.
There is even a deleted ayahuasca scene!
You’re totally right, unfortunately a lot of people don’t really care.
@@soospenny7978 Yeah all the people saying there is no story are wrong. It simply went over their heads
But yet, James spent millions to make a unique and alien soundtrack but scraped it dubbing it too unique.
He somehow managed to culturally appropriate a culture that he made up. A youtuber called Sideways did a deep dive on the topic if you're interested.
@@stuffstuff3455 get out of here with that cultural appropriation garbage. The movie is a love letter to tribal cultures
That's the point. Its ironic.
He's says he's trying to support cultures but yet when he wants a unique and alien soundtrack he has it scrapped.
I'm not making it up. Sideways's video shows directs quotes.
Why do I hate Avatar?
Easy: because it's just a shallow preachy “Man's bad, Nature's good” story.
Princess Mononoke did far better job with the "Man vs. Nature" debate (The human leader taking care of the weak and the ills, nature showing stubborn intolerance and hatred, etc…).
In both Avatar movies - it's all black & white: The Navi are the embodiment of pure goodness, while mankind is the absolute evil. No gray areas, no playing the Devil's Advocate, just 6 hours of glorified shallow propaganda.
Exactly. I’m not with you on the propaganda but I am with everything else.
I went to the theater to watch Avatar because a friend who already seen it is willing to pay an extra ticket if I want to go watch with him (for the 2nd time). went in there completely blind with no expectation whatsoever and it turned out to be one of the most beautiful film I've ever seen in my life. of course, most of it is because the visual, but I remember that I got very emotional when the Jake's friends died one by one in the battle field. I think hands down it is still very iconic to this day and one of the most groundbreaking too.
to be fair, avatar didn't NEED to be a strong film plot and character wise, because james cameron had plans on making sequels and needed to focus on introducing us to the world and the n'avi. and i think it did that perfectly!
"avatar didn't NEED to be a strong film plot and character wise" And because it didn't, I disliked the first one, and won't see the second.
@@kev3d personally after watching the second film twice now, its actually really nice, its more out of that cliche story trope the first one had. its got a bit more to it. there's parts of it i'd highlight that a lot of people, including myself are confused about/have issues with, but the second is genuinely better than the first. the military stuff still feels forced but its far less prevelant in the second film except for where its needed, we get to see more of the actual world of pandora itself than all that. however, it is fair that you don't want to see it. But I'd say if you really like world building, fantasy, etc, you'd enjoy the second one a lot more than the first
@@kev3d okay
@@kev3d ok
Personally I loved the film. The sequels can make it into a great ScFi story. It has more potential than any other franchise.
I don’t think people hate Avatar, they just like poking fun at the fact that it’s the highest grossing movie of all time, yet was basically forgotten by the general public as soon as it left theaters. Like, you’d think Avatar would be up there with Titanic or Jurassic Park in terms of well loved movies, yet most people couldn’t even name a single characters name.
It wasn't even hated before Endgame. The hate comes from the fact their big movie didn't beat it without a re-release. The people who struggle to get it are normally the ones who just didn't see it on the big screen... It's also the only 3d film I have ever enjoyed.
The writing does feel like a first draft sometimes though, The unobtainum is funny as hell...
You be surprised how lame some real mineral names are
The writing is unique though. Transferring human consciousness to alien body is unique. Making a bond to animals to be able to control them is also unique. Human being as an alien invader is another unique part of Avatar. The writing is fine so long as it follows the template of hero's journey. I think Cameron adapt japanese style of naming things. It is similar to most manga that certain things are called for obvious reason of their purpose in the story. But let's be honest here. Only Cameron can make a good story of underdog winning against all odds.
Actually, the large majority of haters are Marvel fans who hate Avatar because they don't want it to surpass them😂
also JC fans in general, most of which say True Lies was his last good film as the continue to be in denial over Titanic and Avatar...
Not really. The hate comes from the fact that it's a mediocre movie with a mediocre story we've already seen before several times and forgettable characters, and the fact that people went crazy over it just because of the fancy visuals. There are much better movies than it, and not necessarily marvel movies.
@@magallanesagustin4952 Film bros getting angry that people enjoyed something they didn't is peak film bros behavior
@@magallanesagustin4952 I can already tell ur a marvel fan
@@OfficialEdwardNewgate I don't get angry that people enjoy something I don't. I was just pointing out that people overhype it as if it were a masterpiece when it's not.
I don't hate Avatar. It just... Exists. The visuals are stunning, but the plot is unremarkable at best.
I felt the same, there was nothing good or bad except the visuals, too be honest I think the visuals might've hurt the movie as the good visuals were compared to the average plot, dialogue, characters etc and would make them stand out as more average compared to said visuals
It was ridiculous how cartoonishly evil the bad guys are for me to make the Navi good.... considering most of them work for miners... it isn’t battle of the worlds.
basically the criticisms most of its detractors have
That's the point of why I hate the film. It made 2.7 billion dollars off of it. It's quite undeserving of the critical acclaim and box office success to that degree. After years of hearing that it's a masterpiece by everyone from the rooftops has really soured my view on this movie.
the visuals stopped being stunning when i played literally any ps4 game
I love the film. I think it has to do with how bad humanity is made to look, and people can’t face the truth of what we are capable of and what we have done on our own world. Environmental messages can’t be ignored of course, but the experience is unmatched. And way of water keeps the trend.
I don't really disagree with you, but this movie paints a picture of the issue that's way too black and white.
Yea but the problem is that its so forced and exxagerated that its stupid. The Navi are all perfect and can co no wrong, and the Humans are (almost)all irredemably bad. If you tell someone they are all bad and offer no alternative they are going to ignore what you are trying to say.
Exactly@@warrioroflight6872
The hate its been getting the past few years is 95% bandwagon, nothing more. I heard nothing but praise for it back when it came out.
Meh I always hates how bad they treated humans. Hell when I first saw it I thought the humans were the good guys beacuse back then I never understood corporatism and the such. So when is saw the traitor Jake Sully cutting down people that were fighting to preserve a dying earth I lost interest in the movie for a while. Till I got more context at least.
@@Demicleas they're not preserving earth, they're preserving the profits of a greedy megacorporation that is responsible for earth being a shithole
I hate when people don’t bother to look past the surface level of stories… I think a big reason people don’t understand avatar is because there are certain parts of a story that people are used to focusing on when looking for good writing, and that’s often the characters and how much complexity and nuance they have. But I think in this case that expectation about where the important parts of a story should be is distracting people from seeing what is really amazing, interesting, and worth thinking about in avatar. People rarely talk about the amazing detail in the world building, the foreshadowing, setups and payoffs, and the fascinating ideas about religion, culture, and reflections of our own history and future.
So basically what I’m saying is that what avatar cares about doesn’t line up with what most of the audience cares about, causing most people to miss a lot of what makes the movie great.
well said tbh
It's ok to think that Avatar 2 sucked though. I didn't like it, not everyone is going to like it. And that's perfectly fine.
The problem though is that the story goes in a way where you follow the characters and connect with them, and most of them are stereotypical with a couple of exceptions. I am tired of people saying that I don't understand something I dislike. If you saw it your way, that's fine, but I could see little to no nuance in the story. Maybe if they did something similar to Denis Villenueve's Dune, creating such a rich world with a lot of complex themes and characters that have some backstory to them then I would have enjoyed it more. There are other movies that I think do a better job than this movie ever could like Hayao Miyazaki's Princess Mononoke, which gives more time to see both sides of the conflict and why they are doing what they are doing.
@@captainhowlerwilson508 its fine to not like it! Most people just have different priorities when judging if a work is good or not! Just keep in mind that simplicity in one area that you usually prioritize does not make bad or worse than other works :)
I think so many people did incredible jobs - particularly the art team , but script and character wise - arguably the most important, that didn’t happen. I’m actually excited for the sequel, it’s giving me major Jupiter’s ascending vibes which I adored / b movie with an obscenely high budget and just the most hilarious things to shove detail into!!
The art department didnt even get full credit for working on this film they were just credited as "international crew" way to go USA fucking over New Zealand crew
I never really understood the hate for Avatar. I've loved the first movie when it came out and now at 19 it's awesome to see the story continue!!
it's generic anti human unrealistic hollywood preaching. obviously you would just release a neuro toxin from orbit and wipe out the primitives. you wouldn't engage them in war at all
because you're a kid
@@steviegbcool what does that have to do with anything?
@@takumi-san116 It's a very subjective tbh. One does like the movie, another doesn't. The avatar universe just never clicked with me for quite some reasons.
Like, the sudden change from unobtanium to the magical whale juice. Yes I get that the idea of becoming immortal is a thing in human history, but what exactly helps you not aging anymore, if you die of suffocation anyway? It felt for me, that Cameron just thought _Humans don't seem evil enough...how can I change that?_ At least in the first movie they were not so flat/blank characters. But now they became walking clichés, which we see many through the whole movie. Spider for example, seemed to me as if someone just took Mowgli or Tarzan into the Avatar universe. Like, nothing new or interessting. But that's only my opinion on it, if you liked the movie, than It's okay.
Love this nuanced take! Totally agree. Personally, I don't think a film has to be The Most Incredible Cinematic Experience to still be enjoyable. A movie can be Fine, and.. that's okay. I can still enjoy it, lol. We live in a time where there's so much media to choose from, story-telling has lost a bit of its wonder. We sort of take it for granted. Regardless of its issues, I still think the visuals of Avatar are enough to warrant appreciation. I'm looking forward to the Way of Water!
What surprises me is that many relevant plot, character and worldbuilding elements were cut from theatrical release. For example:
- Earth was straining for resources, so it somewhat justified the military's aggressive policies on Pandora. It's still over-the-top, comic book villainy but at least there's some explanation there.
- Dr. Grace Augustine's school was attacked and many of her students were killed, among them Neytiri's little sister, which gives her a more personal grudge against humans rather than just a generalized hatred for them destroying the environment. That scene where Grace told Jake of the tragedy is my favorite.
- Tsu'tey was given a more fitting warrior's end than what he got in the theatrical version, completing his character arc.
Also, James spent millions to make a unique and alien soundtrack but scraped it dubbing it too unique.
He somehow managed to culturally appropriate a culture that he made up. A youtuber called Sideways did a deep dive on the topic if you're interested.
Honestly kinda understand why a lot of it was scrapped in favor of quicker moments in the film we still hear about the school and what happened we see photos we still learn about the earth being a shot hole it probably would have weighed down the film
I've never hated Avatar then. Still don't now.
Unobtanium is not a concept from this movie, it has being used in engineering since the 1950s, specifically in the aerospace industry.
People that hate avatar: it's the same story.
Also them with marvel films: this is awesome. Same story is aweosme.
I loved avatar since the first time I saw it when it came out in 09. Still my absolute favourite. I just got home from watching Avatar The way of water, and it was absolutely gorgeous and I loved it too. Great sequal to the first Avatar, and I'll keep supporting any upcoming Avatar movies. The world are just so great. The depth of it, the creature. You really do wish this was our reality instead, to live in a world of Pandora like them. Love to be able to be alive to see the story of our beloved Pandora come to life in future year releases! (Ps. I really enjoy Jake sully as a main character. He's very fitting and he's very likeable in personality, both caring and hardcore not backing down badass)
I also just got myself some nice books on Avatar, that describes the world in depth and shows it off. I never read or saw these before now(2022) and it opened my eyes even more to the depth and the WHOLE world of Avatar/Pandora. Which just makes movies get so much better, because they let you see all the stuff in 'action and moving' while you know, behind the screen there's so much more to this world hidden away, waiting to be discovered!
I really love and appreciate that James C. Makes EVERYTHING with passion and true(RAD) Quality. It really shows, specially in Avatar 2 now that new technology finally is available to him.
One thing I find funny is some people saying “no one cares about Avatar 2, the first one came out forever ago” but people were excited for the 2018 Halloween, the new icarly show, Indiana Jones 4 and 5, Matrix 4, Blade Runner 2049…
I actually loved the new avatar movie, jeez I loved all the water stuff, it was so beautiful. And I know people may not watch it for the story, I didn't at first but I started liking it and falling in love with a lot of characters, I even cried in the cinema cuz I got emotion because of the alien whale haha
I love all the undertone plot themes in Avatar personally. Touches on mass industrialization, capitalism, colonialism, imperialism, corporatism, the military-industrial complex, global warming, etc etc. Tons of other films do this Hero's Journey type story but very few sprinkle in many real factors that we are treading into as a society today. So there is a ton of depth if you are willing to immerse yourself in the world and relate it to how we are advancing here in modern times. I highly recommend watching the extended addition as well as the deleted scenes that fill many gaps or explain more of the story. And for me, all I want from a movie theater experience is to be visually entertained. If I wanted the best story ever, I'd read a book. If I want to see something cool, I'd watch something like Avatar or Mad Max Fury Road which also got story hate. James Cameron scratches that "sit back in your seat with a bucket of popcorn and be entertained" itch that most of us like.
The difference between Fury Road and Avatar, is that the former had a simple story, but narratively it made a lot of sense and the heroes and villains all had understandable motivations and the action was used for visual storytelling, something that was never considered before and even in real life wars, there is usually not much time for talking as enemies usually don't have long-winded conversations with one another. The latter felt so by the books and unoriginal with how the story unfolded. Fury Road is actually getting more love than ever and for good reason because audiences are seeing beyond just the action being amazing, and understanding the emotional undertones of it. Avatar on the other hand, while having neat world-building just doesn't hit that same note because most of the characters were just one-note.
Id say my biggest problem with Fury Road is that Max just didnt feel like the main character, Furiosa did. Which doesnt make the most sense.
@@MachinaX7 Honestly, I didn't care that much, because it was still riverting from start to finish and he still had plenty of scenes.
@@captainhowlerwilson508 That's how most people feel about Avatar
I’m watching a movie to relax and have fun. I don’t want to see a three hour fault about how “bad” capitalism is or how “good” Biden is. I’m not trying to watch a global warming add for 3 hours. Your claim is just so bad
I find it funny people bash avatar for being unoriginal and derivative, and yet praise avengers.
Or Star Wars.. it really is a double standard.
Basically every big Franchise...🤷♂️
Because of that ad where it had a review saying "the greatest movie ever made"
It's simple really: we live in a time where artistry is frowned upon - mainly the US (which I've stated has no real taste anymore for what qualifies as a good picture). It's also narcissism and believing the film is solely attacking them on a real level.
When I hear people say Avatar (2009) or Avatar: The Way of Water (2022) are bad, I just laugh. Honestly, and to be frank, they wouldn't know cinema if it bit them in the ass.
I've actually believed that it's ok to not like the film, but for people saying it has no value, meaning and did nothing for cinema are morons and completely illiterate when talking about the cinematic medium.
Avatar hate is just hipster syndrome. James Cameron is one of the best directors of all time for a reason.
I feel like there’s a stronger feeling of indifference towards it beyond its status as a visual spectacle, and it’s just easy to pick on because of that
Also, James Cameron stating he shared an 800-page analysis of Avatar 1’s story with the writers of 2 to “crack the code” of why the first worked so well is…laughable. It’s like eating the best food you’ve had in your life, and spending a decade trying to figure out why the utensils made it taste so good.
People hate Avatar because it's different. The were no comics going back years in order to build a following. Cameron came out with a movie out of the blue that had no superhero, no human with a cape having the ability to fly around on his own & punching holes in anything his fists collide with.
Lastly: People take Cameron's movies to seriously, forgetting that they are there to entertain. They are most to be pitied.
People shit on avatar for being similar to fern gully, Pochahantas, and dances with wolves, but never shit on those movies for being similar to each other.
Avatar 10/10 Effects 4/10 story. Story is okay, but it feels like something that was made in a board room
I really do think it's that last point. It's not so much that people hate it (at least initially), it's more of a reaction to what they see as a subpar movie being overblown and getting much more praise than it deserves. When I watched it for the first time, my reaction was "That's it? That's what all the hype was about?" I certainly liked it and still have fond memories of it (granted I'm extremely easy to please when it comes to media). But, seeing as people were touting it as the greatest movie of all time, it fell far below my expectations.
It's like when you hear a new popular song, and you think it's alright. But they it explodes in popularity, and you start hearing it everywhere you go. It was fine the first time you heard it, but eventually you just get annoyed due to overexposure.
When I saw the original I thought "nice spectacle". But that was it. I was working in 3d animation and motion capture at the time, so I knew some of the people at WETA who worked on the film. Even some of them told (warned) me the story was a little "cheesy" (their word). But then I started hearing about how people were depressed that Pandora wasn't real and all that nonsense. And I kept thinking did we see the same movie? Because as a film, not a CGI tech demo, it was as bland as they come. Sam Worthington is NOT a good actor. But people were carrying on like the movie was the cure for cancer. And yet unlike Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, Marvel, Pirates and other franchises, no one was wearing Avatar shirts or asking for Avatar toys for Christmas. As a cultural phenomenon it seems totally confined to the theaters, where dedicated fans see the film again and again.
I'm into this film mainly for one reason, it's world building. The story itself is okay and I'm a sucker for cliche tropes (what can I say, I have comfort tropes), but the world building in this is phenomenal. Like you were saying around 11:15 there is lore for all the plants and creatures of Pandora and that gets me fascinated. I have always dreamed of seeing a new planet with life on it much like our own but I have a feeling I won't live to see that happen so this is the next best thing. Pandora is a new planet, or specifically a moon, that has new humanoid creatures, animals, insects, and plant life that have all been built up and made real by lore and backstory. That's amazing! Seeing a world that is vaguely like ours but so different at the same time is really fun and fascinating to think about even if it's all fiction. It also helps that the mocap and CGI stand out significantly just to make the world feel all the more real. 13:43 are my exact thoughts. I'm all for the new underwater world's we'll see in the next film, I'm excited. I don't care what other people have to say.
gotta say, I thought Avatar was severely overrated when it came out too
People generally hate anything overrated or anything with a title that feels unearned or undeserved.
That's easy......some people are jaded and get more joy out of pissing on something incredible, rather than embracing it.
I absolutely love avatar and avatar 2 is the movie I’ve been most excited to come out in the last 12 years. I just can’t explain my excitement that it comes out in 3 days!!
If you haven’t seen the extended version you absolutely have to, they cut out a few really good and touching scenes!
Honestly I think everyone would have loved to see the whole process in it's entirety lmao
Some people pretend to be fine but are just filled with misery and can't help but complain about everything.
i actually liked Quarritch becasue he was a SOLDIER to the hilt. he had a job and that job was to kill the enemy and protect his side and he made no bones about that. its why he is able to communicate so easily with Jake becasue as you point out he doesn't treat him like shit speaks the mission and respects him for being a soldier. Quarritch NEVER losses cred as a threat right until the moment he dies and I LOVE THAT. He is a BADASS leader of men and if the plot didn't dictate that the Na'vi win WE ALL KNOW THEY WOULD HAVE TOTALLY WRECKED THE NAVI.
The battle with Jake as his Avatar in the Mech suit after his entire army got destroyed by plot armor ismade deeply personal. he is fighitng a traitor who just killed thousands of his own men.
FRANKLY JAKE IS A CRIMINAL OF THE WORST SORT and IRL he would be in a war crimes court for treason and mass fratricide.
I love the look of the Human technology and how realistic it is for the most part, i love the look of the navi and all that insane VISUAL details. but its skin deep and that is entirely JAMES FAULT.
the problem with Avatar was it was VISUALLY very impressive. but the ENTIRE CULTURE and especially the Music of Pandora was gutted by James after wasting YEARS building up a truly new and alien culture just to dumb it down for his "american audience". Ha literally created the enture culture of the Na'vi to be NEW AND ALIEN AND THEN WRECKED IT FOR MURICANS.
that being said: james cameraon also made Titanic which was... a joke and was another visualy feast but had so many holes in its history that its frankly embarrassingly Holywood and a total disrespect to the people who actually died in that tragedy as it frankly ignores some of thge most important details for a BS romance that never would have happend IRL.
so yes FUCK HIM. Battle Angel Alita would have suffered the James Cameron Curse if he hadn't given it to another director.
I was blown away when I decided to read the Bible and noticed almost every western tv show movie or book is just a retelling of the stories in the Bible
It's ok to hate a movie, infact if you hate a movie that everyone loves and you have a good reason, then I respect you, but if you hate and don't know why- I'll slap you
I found Avatar to be the most wonderful thing I've ever seen. I can hardly wait for the way of water.
Personally I dislike the messaging behind the theme. Basically humanity deserves death, and there’s absolutely no downsides or problems with more simple tribal life. It’s essentially propaganda. A story with similar themes that is a million times better is Princess Monoke. A film that still leans towards preserving nature, but is willing to give humans and civilisation a fair and understandable motive for its actions.